The income tax is misapplied to most Americans. Get the book, Income Tax: Shattering The Myths by Dave Champion to see if you really have a liability.
The thing is, the ruling class does not want that assumption to be tested. They can't stand the possibility people will figure out the ruling class is not needed after all. That is why believers in the government religion can continue to spout these lies without ever having to worry they will be caught in the lie.
@cephal0p0d Society does indeed cost money to operate. It just doesn't require theft or violence to operate. You may believe it is necessary to have a privileged class of robbers above you to keep things going, and that is fine with me. Live that way if you want. I'd rather live in a different kind of community where there is no violence. If you don't think that community can work, well then let's prove that. Just let some people live peacefully on their own without your coercion. We'll see.
You live in a society. You reap the benefits of doing so. Said society costs money to operate. You can stay and pay, or leave and not pay, that is the social compact. Your failure to pay taxes while continuing to benefit from the society is theft. Theft is a property crime recognized by even the most extremist minarchy.
This is slavery. They hold you hostage by gun point."you don't want to pay tax you're going to jail" you don't want to go to jail... then you die" Happy new year faggots.
A lot of shit in this move and pointing fingers on others and trying to tie it down on a social contract and peoples willingness to pay taxes to gain something in the long run. Yes, some don't want to pay but neither should they be able to use public goods and services if they choose to not pay taxes. Besides most peoples are against wars despite paying taxes and even though taxes pays for wars doesn't mean taxes itself are evil, it's the ones that controls the allocation on war that is.
A society could be explained by terms of social contracts, spoken and unspoken. The fact is that a society should be for the majority not minority, that's rational and sensible to say the least. Even nature have constructed social groups to work like that: everything for the group etc but not on the absolute expense of security and predictability of the individuals survival. This means that even if the group/society is everything the individual should be protected as a sole independent being.
A individual should be protected but not on the absolute expense on society; individuals are protected in order to maintain stability so individuals feels safe to take part in the society without feeling that they're loosing more then what they're gaining. Taxes could be seen as a social contract with very clear goals: to protect and develop its society on the expense of economical freedom on the individual. But never to harm the individual in terms of making him/her a slave.
Historically taxes has been a way for the ruling classes to subjugate the people, this was further solidified under the emerging capitalist system. Tax before was only working in terms of military might and other expropriating factors for the few but that has changed somewhat and taxes has to work for the people to some extent. But today the system is corrupted due to a serious lack of transparency. In short are taxes good and no taxes are bad due to a modern society's needs.
100 years ago, Americans paid no taxes. Yet America was prosperous and no national debt. We had the highest middle-class percentage in the world. What the fuck happened? Greed.
@jackslater230011 Yes, Americans have paid taxes in one form or another since the founding of our country. There was no income tax, but there were other forms of tax. The Whiskey Rebellion in 1794 was about a tax on whiskey. So it is not accurate to say Americans paid no taxes.
Doesent that make all tax immoral technically... inclueding tax for universal health care or roads or anything because someone doesent want to pay because they don't need it X.x
Tax should be only used to Finance: Police,Army and Justice, a light government and a low number of public worker... Not more... A flat Tax of 20% will be not only sufficient to pay this but also to help the poor... Wealth distribution by high tax rate increase poverty, losing buying power, tax evasion of the rich(seriously,who want to be taxed at 50-60 or even 70% !?),and finally debt... All country that have used equality of wealth,wealth distribution and socialism like economy have failed...
@MrGoodJason me too. this could have been a much nicer place to live. instead, we have bureaucratic, pencil-wielding twerps with armed thugs who forcefully redistribute wealth and finance a war machine that is responsible for the killing of thousands of civilians.
YOU are a part of their cycle of money and death. you are contributing to their system because you want the luxuries and spoils of their crusades. you care not to see the death and destruction brought about by your thirst.
@sensibuddz i agree believe me if theres a bloody revolution like EVER i will join the rebels without asking i want a different country where police dont over abuse their power believe me i dont get anything from them NO LUXURIES OR SPOILS i work at taco bell with a high school diploma not that's worth anything nowadays i just want the min wage increase so i can survive better. this country isnt becoming any better it dont matter what politician you get in they all do the same thing
If you dont like what your tax dollars are being used for then use you constitutional right to vote small during election. The so called "democracy" of US is at fault. Not the mechanic of taxation. If your country is doing something you dont like then
1 - they are operating behind the voters back or
2 - you voted for him
Why did you vote for some idiot who lowers taxes for the rich? why did you vote for a warmonger? VOTERS are in power, but are being swept away at the circus and the fireworks.
@escapeartist80 one vote doesn't count, are you stupid? taxation is immoral i fucking hate it they took a chunk of my pay check now I am broke. 40%= income tax, sales tax, other extra taxes. Don't use that cheesy line if you don't like it get out first of all who put you in charge of laws? Your not moral for supporting taxes, just another naive fool.
@Tethloach1 I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say. If you don't understand how voting works and how "democracy" and campaigning works I suggest you read up on the issue and not ramble nonsense on the internet.
@escapeartist80 I am saying one fucking vote won't shape things in your favour. here is an example since your confused. If person1 want's to vote Mcain that doesn't mean Mcain will be elected president, because other people can vote for Obama. If you think one vote count's in a democracy than your an idiot in a democracy you have to have a majority 51% or over so fuck off with" you don't understand democracy"
@escapeartist80 taxation: Forcing people to give up some of their property(theft).
A) one group of people feel it's just and moral,The Ends Justifies the means(you).
B) some people have looked at it logically and realized it's theft,knowing theft is wrong.
Final conclusion: You're a hypocrite along with anyone who accepts double standards on issues. If you don't understand this 8==========> ------- FUCK YOU!
It's about five minutes 'til revolution o'clock in this country.
Some people have an infinite capacity for government theft. If the tax rate was 120%, they'd try to borrow the other 20% and starve trying to pay a criminal bankster owned government.
The rest have just about had it. Many are already not paying taxes and keeping a low profile. Others are tax protesters. Soon, I think we'll see large numbers of people opting out of taxes as the return on their investment is mostly negative.
@GeoffreyTransom I'm interested in the real world, not in descriptions of an idealistic world that has never existed that is described only on the pages of an econ textbook. I guess you are unaware that often what sounds great on paper when introduced into the real world very often doesn't work out so well.
General government functions are funded by the other taxes (impost, duty, excise, etc.). Income tax is only necessary to skim off the excess, debt-based, fiat currency being constantly flooded into circulation by the Federal Reserve, and to go towards the interest on the debt.
I didn't take it personal, I'm just saying I wouldn't make presumptions about how Scandanavia should run it's economy because I don't live there. You say what is my evidence? Look at the former USSR, look at Greece today, Zimbabwa, Peurto Rico. You say "equal" so who defines that? You, me, who? We raise taxes constantly in America to make things "equal" yet our debt just grows, I know best what to do with my money, not the govt. Oh BTW, that's funny you think we have a weak left wing here.
Good video and i totally agree, but you need to distinguish between Public and Private to be accurate here. The living man (Private Trust) is free and not taxable, but the Person (Public) is Taxable and is owned by the crown, the thing is that we are NOT the latter, and the presumption that we ARE needs rebutting by us and the burden of proof that we are that Public name should be passed to the revenue department when they come after us. See Dean Clifford on here.
Did you ever think? They print money out of air, as they wish. They say you and I own tax on that money. Well I say just print my share out of that same air. Think about it ? Just think. You may understand the game someday.
@jetgraphics I havent paid fed income tax for over 10yrs and they do nothing about. I do not volunteer. Years ago when you opened up to page 1 of the 1040 tax book, the commissioners letter started out, " As a volunteer of fed income tax....". We began learning and then stopped paying. As more freed themselves from paying the tax, they removed the word volunteer from the opening letter. The number of non tax payers grows and that is why The Fair Tax Law is being talked about more
I know for a fact that income tax was implicted during the First World War was to be temporary,and I so wish there was a way to opt out of paying taxes on my blood sweat and tears wages...but we all gotta die and pay taxes wherever we live.
And if you don't want to sign that "social contract", that's fine. But you can't excpect to get any benefits from the society then, it would be doublestandarded. You can't go to a public hospital, use public roads or any of that stuff made possible because of the social contract as you put it. When I think of society, I very much think about ALL it's inhabitants, not just myself. I'm happy to pay taxes when I know that OTHER people are going to benefit as well.
@qita0 That's his point. I live on a dirt road, we got so sick of waiting around for the county to plow it so we bought our own plow, so now I have to pay for fuel as well as the taxes that are supposed to have been doing it in the first place, I'll keep my money thanks and spend it as I see fit. Oh, and I donate directly to people in need, they get every penny of the money, I don't need a politician to do it for me and take a cut in the process.
@motter28218 That's what liberal social policy is about. The poor get a penny from here and there (charity). That doesn't however make their situation any better, it only alleviates their situation temporalily. It also stigmatizes the poor. Not something I would call just.
@motter28218 But of course, when people know that they are going to benefit from paying taxes (and that everyone else is going to), they will be happy to pay them. Of course this means that the majority of the people (not the small millionaire minority) get's to decide what should those taxes be spent to. E.g free public health care, free public schools, public roads and their maintance etc.
@motter28218 The key here is equality. Everyone is a contributer and a benefitter, not just the rich minority who gets the best health care, the best education and so forth. This is why I said that public tax is a powerful way of reducing inequality.
@qita0 No, it isn't, tell, you throw around that term "the rich" how did they get rich? Did it fall out of the sky? If you think someone has to much money stop buying their product, they don't put a gun to your head and say "give me your money, make me rich" it is a voluntary transaction, you don't solve anything by getting govt goons to forcibly take and distribute money, it has never worked an never will, are you at all watching Greece and Italy lately??
@motter28218 No, it's not about "them being rich". It's about the fair distribution of the wealth. First, the kind of rich I'm talking about.. they didn't get rich because of hard work, they inherited their riches, which sounds like monarchy to me. Second, hard working people can not become the kind of rich I am talking about.
You are very wrong with saying it hasn't worked, I happen to live in a such country myself. Just Google the Scandinavian model.
@motter28218 There is little or no work related to it. They will reveice interest from banks, and the amount can be bigger than the average persons yearly salary (this is, with no work effort). Now some of them may have become rich on financial speculation. This means that INSTEAD of the money being used for the betterment of the whole community, it can (in the worst cases) result as the opposite -> in loss of jobs, moving the jobs to poor third world countries and so forth
@motter28218 So if you decide to glorify the rich (and I'm NOT talking about the middle class here, maybe the upper middle class), pay some thought to it. Who really get's to do the hard physical job, how much are they getting from doing it, in relation to some stock market clerk. Also notice how much each of them is actually contributing to the betterment of the people. Notice how they talk in the news about compulsory cuts in e.g teachers salaries, or cuts in police departments
@motter28218 We live in a world of excess, somehow we are being told that there is never enough money, and that we have to make the sacrifices.. Now where is that money going to, what's a better place than making sure that e.g all citizens can count on being treated in a hospital, or getting education. And by only giving the rich access to those services will give a message of "human life's worth can be measured in money"
@motter28218 Although I am not a social democrat I could live with that. Anything but this current system of structural violence. That's the kind of coercion you should be worried about.
@qita0 OK, so you don't even live in America and you're going to lecture us on how things should work here? Do you have a central bank in Scandanavia? You say your system works, how long has it been in place? It "worked" here in America as well, for a time, till the debts came due, I'd also argue you are unaware of what America was founded on and what it is (supposed) to stand for, it is the land of opportunity, and yes, agree/disagree that includes the opportunity to become rich.
@motter28218 Hey, no need to take it personally, lol. It's just politics. I take no particular interest in the US, although I find it's political field to be interesting, mainly because of the two-party system and a very weak left wing.
@motter28218 You're talking about the equality fo opportunity, which I disagree to. The more any society has unequal stuctures and unequal distribution of wealth, the more difficult it is to really obtain true equal opportunity. But yeah, I wouldn't believe in what I say without evidence, I hope that you have some evidence too to back up your values, ideology and so forth.. I believe that we should constantly question the things we take for granted in this world.
It would be simplistic to say that taxation doesn't work for the betterment of the society (only on the bad aspects). Taxation is a powerful tool to reduce unequality, and indeed make life better for all people in a society. What you're describing here, are merely political nyances. Not every nation that has taxes (and indeed that's the majority) spend them in military, surveillance etc. So I am genuinely interested, are you against public schools, roads, health care etc.?
So, does anyone have an idea as to how you would quit paying those taxes when they are deducted from your paycheck ? It's a great idea, but how are you going to do that ? The only way I can think of doing it is by working for cash under the table and not everyone (barely anyone at all) can do that.
@StormCloudsGathering - great videos, love them... but PLEASE turn down the volume on your closing music, the volume levels throughout the video needs to be in line with each other... It is as annoying as watching TV only to get my ears blasted by the commercials.
Cool Idea: We should give our government an ultimatum! Stop the war by the end of 2012 or everyone who disagrees with the war will STOP paying taxes and arm themselves with deadly weapons and wait upon your arrival to try and steal the money to fund your bullets.
thumbs up storm. i still say, there's an old law that says taxes are illegal...could be wrong though...anyway, this whole monetary system is just ridiculous. why do we have money...it is the year 2011 and we're like cavemen hoarding and storing gold n silver...for what? to have a big pile to tell others we have more...i'm tired of this selfish shit. there's no need for any kind of a monetary society. use the fing brains GOD gave us and lets all work on a plan for everyone. money=corruption=death
@PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE ...some of you non-critical thinkers will chastise me and will say..."well, what will make people be productive without an incentive"...sigh...you see, this is the wrong attitude...the new plan will have everyone being productive, educated in various practical fields of survival, farming, medical, social and tech. an educated people will be a better people. people will be supported in their dreams and ideas and that will benefit society. no need for state/fed governments...
@PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE ...there is no excuse for not all of us using solar, wind power for our homes and cars, with a elct' grid backup when needed. every car by now should at least be hybrid, if not solar and elect'...but big oil is stopping that! there is no need for nuclear...hell, even thermo-elct' is a hell of a lot safer...tap volcanoes! using the ocean for water and power is very viable. we have the tech but greed is stopping us all. people need to be b-slapped for their closed minds...
All human action is by definition selfish Why should I care if people are hoarding stuff? Using god in your argument does not make that argument any more valid or powerful Money is just a tool like gun or pencil Tool by itself does nothing What if I do not agree with your plan for whatever reason? I have nothing against plans however ridiculous I think they are as long as they are not forced Otherwise you are just tyrant posing as a savior
All those examples that you give to support your rhetoric do not address the quotes from which your video arose in the first place. Yes, I agree I do not want my taxes to fund wars, to support the affluence lifestyle of those in the senate, whitehouse, and fed. I agree! I do not want my taxes to go to waste. However, these quotes and many of the comments on this video do point out, that taxes, need be paid for social programs such as education, and healthcare, welfare, pensions, infrastructure..
Well said, taxation has it's roots in coercion and it continues to today, of course on a more "subtle" level. The state's level of force is surprising, many don't understand what happens when you "don't pay taxes". Government agents come to your house and take everything, it's really quite shocking. Not so different from not paying your local mob their protection money, they will come and take it if they want to. It's a giant U.S. mob, with goons, taking whats yours, for unwanted return.
I think the problem with your argument is that you make a blanket statement that ALL taxation is criminal, immoral, etc. And part of your argument - that you didn't sign no damn social contract - is specious, unless you choose to completely disentangle yourself from all society has to offer you. Fine, I say, start a new one! But if you use a road, should you not pay a fee for it? If you are protected by police, should you not pay them? How are we to be assessed these costs if not through taxes?
@tomoeDave since when did politicians have the right to use taxpayer's money for war and killing people in the middle east? I didn't sign up for this, and I should be given a choice whether I should send MY taxes for stuff like this. I will pay for taxes like police protection. Hell, I rather get my own bodyguard because the public police is inefficient. But no, I have a right to NOT pay taxes for wars because it my goddam money.
Its exactly the same with the UK. Income tax was introduced as an "emergency measure" to pay for the Napoleonic Wars. Yet we still have it now. An "emergency measure" which has lasted for 200yrs?!? Man, that's gotta be some emergency!!!
as long as you use the sewage-systems built by the state, the roads built by the state, the bridges built by the state, the electrical and utility lines built by the state, the sidewalk built by the state, the police and fire services created by the state....then you got to pay. You signed the contract when you agreed to live in the area under state jurusdiction. Even corporations operate within the area of state jurusdiction. Everything has a legacy of acquisition via prior force anyway.
But, but, but, it's just so much easier for me if the government just takes the money out of my paycheck so that I don't have to make those difficult decisions about which charity should get my money. I just don't have time for that. I'll just pass my responsibility to help those less fortunate, on to the government. It is on them, now.
Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party? The government exists by leeching off our income like a parasite. If the people stop paying in mass then it will end.
British taxes led to the Boston Tea Party. Gun confiscation led to Lexington and Concord.
@bigrozo As long as "THEY" have the printing press, it won't matter. It will never end. When we the people control the money THEN it will end because then our taxes WILL be needed to survive. Until then? Realize that the people in control allows us to actually enforce the constitution on "them" because of the provisions. Such as Redress of Grievance. If we don't pay taxes when they NEED THEM they listen. They could care less, it just covers the fraud and makes people THINK taxes are needed!
The US existed fine without the Income Tax. When they implemented the Federal Income Tax in 1916 they promised it would only be for rich people. They promised that it wouldn't lead to our losing our privacy... Today the federal government has a handle on every significant financial asset you possess. In direct violation of the 4th and 5th amendment they coerce you into complete disclosure. Now they have expanded that to your private health information.
The real debate shouldn't be whether or not its immoral. Its what are you going to do about it? Complain complain yap yap rant rant all you want, but that does nothing to solve the problem. What would you suggest we do? None of us pay taxes at all thus ending civilization as we know it? What is your alternative plan?
@swordo21 The belief that civilization would collapse in the absence of the state is analogous to what religion has to say about the church. It is a tautology simply reiterating the emotional requirements of dogma in the face of it's overwhelmingly irrational premises.An alternative plan to taxation looks an awful lot like an alternative plan to prayer. Stop believing in superstition, and stop advocating for violence. Only then can a clear-headed discussion take place.
@Fathoms2004 You stated that without some state or institutional form of government, civilization would still exist. In essence you stated that civilization can exist without civilization. Every successful civilization in history has had a form of taxes. Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Babylon, Hebrews, Assyrians, Turks, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Carthaginians, the list quite literally goes on. Religion is a PERSONAL belief. Civilization is a collective of people. Comparing the two is a folly.
@swordo21 Ignoring that Ireland went stateless for over a thousand years, had every successful pregnancy in history been facilitated by rape it would not mean that rape was essential to reproduction, or that practicing it was virtuous. To say that religion is a separate issue from government is to ignore that statism emerged out of the belief that it was the living embodiment of God's will on earth, which is why examples of states existing without religion are recent developments.
@Fathoms2004 Whenever an area of the world went "stateless" for an extended period of time that means that there was no recognizable civilization there. Yes there were villages of irish people, but as I've state before to another person, they were just a large number of barbaric tribes. Every time civilization disappears there is always people, but uncivilized people. Civilization=Government=Order. No civilization=no government=anarchy.
@swordo21 Government subsists off the excess capital generated by the productive class. It's existence is made possible by civilization, not the other way around. Disease can only form wherever live tissue is available. But all this is neither here nor there. What I'm advocating is a moral-philosophical sea-change without precedent in history. All these words you are throwing around are ex-post-facto rationalizations for violence. It is not proper to force ones worldview on others.
@Fathoms2004 Do you even know what you're saying or are you just contempt to throw words around that make you sound smart? Government is where a group of people come together, decide on a certain way on how they should conduct themselves and any laws they deem necessary. Civilization is when an even larger group of people decide which form of Government they wish to use, and then enact it in order to attempt to express order on the public. Without civilization we're back to small tribes of...
@swordo21 (cont)This is what creates civilization. The state is simply composed of people who live in a world of moral opposites. Moral rules that are generally agreed on by the community (don't hit people, don't take their stuff), don't apply to them. What a law is some stranger saying he now has the right to capture or kill anyone who doesn't comply with this or that arbitrary demand on their behavior. This is hardly civilized, or civilizing behavior.
@Fathoms2004 Without civilization we're back to small tribes of humans roaming around and doing anything they can in order to survive. A style of life that I, for one, do not want to take part in. You speak of a moral-philosophical sea-change that you advocate, well what is this so called miracle plan? Please tell us all of your great plan to get rid of all taxation while keeping the world civilized and organized?
@swordo21 It's called the US Constitution. Those dumb asses wrote 200+ years ago, so we can be free. Where t he PEOPLE control the government and not the super rich and corporations. The taxes it enbodies are imposts, duties and excise and worked great until the civil war when Lincoln went on a hey day screwing us all over and violating the Constitution like a drunken whore. IT worked good before and can work good again. Just needs to be followed. Read the LAW THAT NEVER WAS for a start.
@swordo21 Civilization can do without men ruling over other men and enslaving them. Google, Beware the Psychopath my Son by Clinton Callahan to read the REST OF THE STORY!
@swordo21 These are all post hoc rationalizations for beliefs which were never freely reasoned into. The reason people believe the state is responsible for creating civilization is because as children they were forced to spend twelve years in government education camp at a time in their lives when they were intellectually and emotionally defenseless against propaganda. This indoctrination replaces reality with words. In reality, there is just people living and interacting in the marketplace....
@swordo21 OH GOD! NOT ANARCHY! So cops driving around "enforcing" idiotic thought crime laws is civilization? I'll take anarchy...at least lets try it. Anarchy is simply self government. You rape you hang. We will see to it. There are ALWAYS laws. Jefferson called them laws of nature.
@courageouslion Two things. One, if you want an example of Anarchy already in effect look at the nation of Somalia. Real cheery place isn't it? With all the murder, war lords, and starvation. Two, you called the founding fathers of America dumb-asses, but then go on to praise their creation (the constitution) for providing fair and just laws and taxation which wasn't outlandish and providing the people with power. I honestly agree that their system was best so what is your argument exactly?
@swordo21 OH, I didn't realize you lived in Somalia and were an expert on the culture. So I stand corrected. I had no idea it was so terrible. OH, WAIT, you DON'T live in SOMALIA? My bad. So who do you know that does and that is feeding you their version of what it is like? The MEDIA? Oh hell, I always believe them. As for the Founding Father remark? That was supposed to be dry humor. They are treated like dumb asses by the majority of the population that really are dumb asses.
@swordo21 One other thing.... as for the murder, war lords and starvation? Let's see, how many innocent people are DEAD because the police fucked up and shot some innocent person in the war on drugs? How many "war lord" departments are sending out swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? The names? The weapons?\ And as for starvation...believe me there are people starving in the USA right now while you write. Or at least badly malnourished.
@courageouslion You really are ignorant aren't you? How do I know? Who was feeding me my information? It was my father before he died there. Something tells me that you either were never taught, or just plain forgot that war we fought over there to try and overthrow said war lords and restore order and government, but then more ignorant pricks like you called for the war to stop leaving me without a dad and not even a good reason for his death. And America's "poor" are rich compared to others.
@swordo21 Wow, I'm glad you enlightened us. I never would have realized that civilization EQUALS a gang of parasitic, violently aggressive, narcissistic megalomaniacs, harassing, robbing and extorting everyone else. I always thought being "civilized" meant peacefully coexisting--the opposite of "government." Thanks for enlightening me.
good way to put it stormclouds,and as to how u beat the irs jaketowson well u dont work a job that takes the taxes first before u get ur money,yah that is a choice that will hurt alot of people,but only in the level of comfort they are currently living in,actually its quite a liberating feeling,i would even go so far as to say it is the source of true power in the system we are currently being forced to particiapate in,and i did chip i serve 4 year in the army and went to the fist gulf war
Furthermore, how are you going to 'opt out' of taxes? The only way I could think of is if you leave society...and technically you can do that. Good luck not paying taxes anywhere else.
What's the alternative? How do you run a government without taxes? Or how do you create a society without a governing body? Nothing else seems feasible, and any idea I've ever heard that could 'solve' these problems are just as idealistic and unworkable as Communism.
@ImPerpl3xd The purpose of our Government as founded in the constitution is to protect the peoples Liberty. It is not to take care of people from craddle to grave, it is not to take Liberty in order to have security, it is not to deprive us of our rights to what we own!, it is not to deprive us our rights to freedom and our rights to keeping what we earn!
The government is to protect our Liberty DOMESTIC. But they are failing EXTREMELY bad at that.
@NaturalGroundation I don't really get how any of that has to do with what I said. I agree with you...the government shouldn't be putting troops all over the world. The TSA is bullshit. Our liberties are being eroded. And I understand that the government shouldn't necessarily provide people with a free ride and doesn't represent us.
But that doesn't make a case against taxation itself, explain how it's immoral or dispute the idea of a social contract.
@ImPerpl3xd If someone were to come up to you, point a gun at you and demand your money, that is called armed robbery. If the government does the same thing (demanding your money under threats of coercion), it is called "paying your fair share". Why is it OK for one and not the other? Another way to look at it is that when one person or group has the ability to take the fruits of another person's labor, that effectively makes them a slave to the first group.
@ImPerpl3xd (Pt 2) So it really revolves around trying to justify being able to take another person's property by means of coercion. Thing is that the issue isn't taxation in and of itself, but the personal income tax. There are plenty of other ways that a government can raise money... and let's not forget that the U.S. government existed and thrived 150 years before the passing of the 16th Amendment. Even then, for the first 20 years afterwards income taxes were voluntary.
@ImPerpl3xd (Pt 3) But to get back to the point, what if our government were to nationalize the Fed, and pin the value of the dollar to the physical value of the United States itself (the value of a currency does not have to be based on a precious metal and still be value based). The government itself could then issue loans at interest and use the income from the interest payments to pay for public works. Under a system like that, a personal income tax wouldn't be necessary.
@ImPerpl3xd NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. The government is JUST LIKE ENGLAND!!! Dictating to us how we should live our lives, dictating to us how much we should pay, dictating to us that touching our wives squeezing there breasts and touching the insides of their crotches IS GOOD FOR US. WELL BS! A government CAN run on excise taxes, it CAN run on export taxes, it CAN run with a military meant for just protecting ITSELF and not fighting with the WORLD! Fake paper fiat money....
@ImPerpl3xd Do you think citizens had to do with the conversion to a FIAT money system? OR our PROVERBIAL ENGLAND called the US Govt. ? yea... No joke... Guess things never change HAIL US GOVT! HAIL OBAMA! HAIL GLOBALISTS! HAIL COPORATIONS! HAIL HAIL HAIL... Welcome Comrades!! How shall we control our masses today????
This video seems to confuse some things. He rails against the idea of a Social Contract and says taxation is immoral, and then goes on to degrade the things that are done with tax money.
I agree that the things that are done with our tax money are immoral and criminal, but that does not negate the idea of taxes themselves or make the idea of taxes immoral in and of itself. Would you consider the use of Nuclear energy immoral simply because it can be used to create bombs?
Great video. Everyone who dissents is in for a rude awakening. The income tax goes directly to the interest on the federal reserve's debt. None of it is spent on anything "for the betterment of society." Wake the f*ck up, people. If it truly was for the betterment of society, you wouldn't be FORCED to pay it.
I normally love your videos but this one does not wake people up or inform them. I suggest you educate them (even if you don't remember all the references like you often say). How about telling people which taxes go where and why income tax is criminal? This video won't achieve much imo, it just makes people wrong who don't know better.
Cont. from below.. Just the other day at the Occupy movement a 19 year old Pregnant girl, a Priest and an 84 year old Woman were All Pepper sprayed! The Amazing thing is, in this Country, Every one stands and WATCHES THIS and DO Nothing! Americans are weak. They DARE do nothing to Help the fellow People. I was born here, lived my life here. You may not have WANTED to leave under Those conditions. It may be a blessing for you as you watch this Country Smolder from within. Joel.
How are You doing. Very good video by the way. please make more, what you have to say is very important to America. But once again, How Are You? No you dont have to give the whole story. And no, we here are not so much nosy as concerned. The Wife, Child(2)? How are things for You all? I myself do Not know where you had to go. Do you Feel better being out of this Police State? Please P.M. me if you like. The Occupy movement is a joke here, you know that, but just yesterday.. I will continue..
You can legally stop paying income taxes by not having any income. Only problem is, home ownership is not allowed in America today, so you would have no way to pay the property taxes on your domicile/shelter/farm. And that forces you to labor--slavery. Property taxes are the most immoral form of tax, because the only way to avoid them is to die.
The argument is not only what tax money buys... but rather the fact that someone can take a percentage of the fruit or YOUR labor earned by the sweat of YOUR brow goes against the very idea of America. You want to talk about streets and firemen... who pays for those services? 40% of Americans do not pay taxes. The "evil" 1% pays over half of the revenue generated by taxes. And yet 100% of the people get to walk on a side walk, or drive on a street payed for by 60% of the people.1776 NEVER FORGET
If you want to live in the imaginary little world where everything that makes civilization possible is free then go ahead, but please don't talk to us with your head so far up your own ass to the point where you can't even hear your own voice.
Okay don't pay taxes, but the next time your house burns down you can put it out yourself. Also the next time you go into cardiac arrest you can drive your own damn self to the hospital and if someone steals all your stuff then I'm sure you can find the time to track down the criminal yourself. Don't want to pay taxes then don't get any of its benefits. You can repair your own damn roads and if someone invades then you can fight them yourself.
@philliproemer21 don't want to pay taxes? well you can always go live in the middle of the wilderness somewhere. If you want civilization then it takes money. Find a decent way to collect money without taxes and THEN you can complain about the current system.
@swordo21 Did Celtic Ireland (650-1650), the Icelandic Commonwealth (930-1262), or the early New England settlements of Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, or Albemarle require taxes? No. Taxes are immoral and are not required for civilization.
If I don't like being robbed and bullied by the criminal organization known as the state, why should I have to leave? To me, it seems much more fitting that the criminals get out.
@philliproemer21 Thank you very much for proving how ignorant you really are. Both Celtic Ireland and the Icelandic commonwealth (in the time frame you specified) were more a collective of warring barbarian tribes than any functioning civilization. Also Rhode Island and Pennsylvania very much had to pay taxes. Every single British colony had to pay taxes that was mandated by the King. A civilization takes money to run. Don't want to pay then leave the civilization and be on your own.
Isn't that title redundant? Going on the assumption of morality, wouldn't it be concisely put as,
"Taxation Is Immoral"? Is there any sort of taxation that isn't forced? If you're calling it donations "from the goodness of your heart", that isn't taxation. All taxation is forced.
Look I agree with all off you!! And we can sit around and bitch amongst eachother all you want!! Truth is?? This has all been done by design!! Th!NK why?? What does history truly tell us? It's gonna collapse rather we like it or not!! This is done on purpose and there is nothing we can do about it!! And trust me like u! I will die trying!! The good times are over folks and this is just the beginning of things yet to come!! This is REAL TALK!
@tommy35ss stop wasting time on politics - anarchism is the only way - search for stefbot or freedomain radio here on youtube - you can thank me later
This guy also needs to learn a bit more about contract law. You don't have to sign a contract in order for a contract to exist. There's implied consent, consent by inaction, etc. All real legal concepts in contract law. If he is that unhappy, he does have options. There are nearly 200 other contries in the world, instead of choosing to live in one you object so strongly to, find another one more suitable for yourself.
Hmm. This video isn't an appeal to emotion at all is it? As if all tax revenue goes solely for wars - making the claim that since taxes have been used to fund bad things (war) then there should just be no taxation. Ignoring all of the very important things that taxes also contribute to.
yeah, but do you want public schools? do you want a police force that is responsible for protecting your rights? do you want protection against war on US soil? do you want peace of mind knowing that it's highly unlikely your wife or any other person has a bomb or weapon on that plane? don't you want a place to put dangerous criminals? i do.
i don't claim to know a lot about politics or government. but it is my understanding that these things that we expect as american citizens aren't free.
This is good. This is the truth.
ammachi3 1 week ago
Thank You
Ur3vil 1 week ago
The income tax is misapplied to most Americans. Get the book, Income Tax: Shattering The Myths by Dave Champion to see if you really have a liability.
ejfow 2 weeks ago
The thing is, the ruling class does not want that assumption to be tested. They can't stand the possibility people will figure out the ruling class is not needed after all. That is why believers in the government religion can continue to spout these lies without ever having to worry they will be caught in the lie.
j3ox 2 weeks ago
@cephal0p0d Society does indeed cost money to operate. It just doesn't require theft or violence to operate. You may believe it is necessary to have a privileged class of robbers above you to keep things going, and that is fine with me. Live that way if you want. I'd rather live in a different kind of community where there is no violence. If you don't think that community can work, well then let's prove that. Just let some people live peacefully on their own without your coercion. We'll see.
j3ox 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
MountainGirl78 2 weeks ago
You live in a society. You reap the benefits of doing so. Said society costs money to operate. You can stay and pay, or leave and not pay, that is the social compact. Your failure to pay taxes while continuing to benefit from the society is theft. Theft is a property crime recognized by even the most extremist minarchy.
Ta da! Myth busted.
cephal0p0d 2 weeks ago
This is slavery. They hold you hostage by gun point."you don't want to pay tax you're going to jail" you don't want to go to jail... then you die" Happy new year faggots.
Vancouverjason1 3 weeks ago
A lot of shit in this move and pointing fingers on others and trying to tie it down on a social contract and peoples willingness to pay taxes to gain something in the long run. Yes, some don't want to pay but neither should they be able to use public goods and services if they choose to not pay taxes. Besides most peoples are against wars despite paying taxes and even though taxes pays for wars doesn't mean taxes itself are evil, it's the ones that controls the allocation on war that is.
Teadon86 4 weeks ago
A society could be explained by terms of social contracts, spoken and unspoken. The fact is that a society should be for the majority not minority, that's rational and sensible to say the least. Even nature have constructed social groups to work like that: everything for the group etc but not on the absolute expense of security and predictability of the individuals survival. This means that even if the group/society is everything the individual should be protected as a sole independent being.
Teadon86 4 weeks ago
A individual should be protected but not on the absolute expense on society; individuals are protected in order to maintain stability so individuals feels safe to take part in the society without feeling that they're loosing more then what they're gaining. Taxes could be seen as a social contract with very clear goals: to protect and develop its society on the expense of economical freedom on the individual. But never to harm the individual in terms of making him/her a slave.
Teadon86 4 weeks ago
Historically taxes has been a way for the ruling classes to subjugate the people, this was further solidified under the emerging capitalist system. Tax before was only working in terms of military might and other expropriating factors for the few but that has changed somewhat and taxes has to work for the people to some extent. But today the system is corrupted due to a serious lack of transparency. In short are taxes good and no taxes are bad due to a modern society's needs.
Teadon86 4 weeks ago
100 years ago, Americans paid no taxes. Yet America was prosperous and no national debt. We had the highest middle-class percentage in the world. What the fuck happened? Greed.
jackslater230011 1 month ago
@jackslater230011 Yes, Americans have paid taxes in one form or another since the founding of our country. There was no income tax, but there were other forms of tax. The Whiskey Rebellion in 1794 was about a tax on whiskey. So it is not accurate to say Americans paid no taxes.
MountainGirl78 2 weeks ago
The only difference between theft and taxes is that one of them is legal.
Draginvry2 1 month ago
Doesent that make all tax immoral technically... inclueding tax for universal health care or roads or anything because someone doesent want to pay because they don't need it X.x
fbibarbie 1 month ago
Tax should be only used to Finance: Police,Army and Justice, a light government and a low number of public worker... Not more... A flat Tax of 20% will be not only sufficient to pay this but also to help the poor... Wealth distribution by high tax rate increase poverty, losing buying power, tax evasion of the rich(seriously,who want to be taxed at 50-60 or even 70% !?),and finally debt... All country that have used equality of wealth,wealth distribution and socialism like economy have failed...
KyubiUnlimitedPower 1 month ago
This can all be summed up with this:
SOCIETY ≠ THE STATE
Good video.
sheepOG 1 month ago in playlist More videos from StormCloudsGathering
tax evasion is illegal that's all i can say...
MrGoodJason 1 month ago
@MrGoodJason all you can say is baaaaa baaaaa
sensibuddz 1 month ago in playlist CLASS WARFARE
@sensibuddz baaaa~~~ baaaaa~~~
BAAAAA~~~~~
MrGoodJason 1 month ago
@sensibuddz IM SORRY for my existence
MrGoodJason 1 month ago
@MrGoodJason me too. this could have been a much nicer place to live. instead, we have bureaucratic, pencil-wielding twerps with armed thugs who forcefully redistribute wealth and finance a war machine that is responsible for the killing of thousands of civilians.
YOU are a part of their cycle of money and death. you are contributing to their system because you want the luxuries and spoils of their crusades. you care not to see the death and destruction brought about by your thirst.
sensibuddz 1 month ago
@sensibuddz i agree believe me if theres a bloody revolution like EVER i will join the rebels without asking i want a different country where police dont over abuse their power believe me i dont get anything from them NO LUXURIES OR SPOILS i work at taco bell with a high school diploma not that's worth anything nowadays i just want the min wage increase so i can survive better. this country isnt becoming any better it dont matter what politician you get in they all do the same thing
MrGoodJason 1 month ago
If you dont like what your tax dollars are being used for then use you constitutional right to vote small during election. The so called "democracy" of US is at fault. Not the mechanic of taxation. If your country is doing something you dont like then
1 - they are operating behind the voters back or
2 - you voted for him
Why did you vote for some idiot who lowers taxes for the rich? why did you vote for a warmonger? VOTERS are in power, but are being swept away at the circus and the fireworks.
escapeartist80 1 month ago
@escapeartist80 one vote doesn't count, are you stupid? taxation is immoral i fucking hate it they took a chunk of my pay check now I am broke. 40%= income tax, sales tax, other extra taxes. Don't use that cheesy line if you don't like it get out first of all who put you in charge of laws? Your not moral for supporting taxes, just another naive fool.
Tethloach1 1 month ago
@Tethloach1 I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say. If you don't understand how voting works and how "democracy" and campaigning works I suggest you read up on the issue and not ramble nonsense on the internet.
escapeartist80 1 month ago
@escapeartist80 I am saying one fucking vote won't shape things in your favour. here is an example since your confused. If person1 want's to vote Mcain that doesn't mean Mcain will be elected president, because other people can vote for Obama. If you think one vote count's in a democracy than your an idiot in a democracy you have to have a majority 51% or over so fuck off with" you don't understand democracy"
Tethloach1 1 month ago
@escapeartist80 taxation: Forcing people to give up some of their property(theft).
A) one group of people feel it's just and moral,The Ends Justifies the means(you).
B) some people have looked at it logically and realized it's theft,knowing theft is wrong.
Final conclusion: You're a hypocrite along with anyone who accepts double standards on issues. If you don't understand this 8==========> ------- FUCK YOU!
Tethloach1 1 month ago
It's about five minutes 'til revolution o'clock in this country.
Some people have an infinite capacity for government theft. If the tax rate was 120%, they'd try to borrow the other 20% and starve trying to pay a criminal bankster owned government.
The rest have just about had it. Many are already not paying taxes and keeping a low profile. Others are tax protesters. Soon, I think we'll see large numbers of people opting out of taxes as the return on their investment is mostly negative.
Liberty4Ever 1 month ago
@GeoffreyTransom I'm interested in the real world, not in descriptions of an idealistic world that has never existed that is described only on the pages of an econ textbook. I guess you are unaware that often what sounds great on paper when introduced into the real world very often doesn't work out so well.
MaryJo1950 1 month ago
General government functions are funded by the other taxes (impost, duty, excise, etc.). Income tax is only necessary to skim off the excess, debt-based, fiat currency being constantly flooded into circulation by the Federal Reserve, and to go towards the interest on the debt.
Learn more at truthattack org
dumpsterdan57 1 month ago
@stormcloudsgathering Outstanding delivery of the plain truth, outstanding.
Your credibility would be so much more influential if you were to stay and resist as you have called for others
dougcarlton 2 months ago
Stormcloud nicely done rebuttal
evdonkbuster 2 months ago
i agree completely, taxation is nothing but theft, even by any other name...
/watch?v=R-gitG32P_U
RequiemForChange 2 months ago
thank you - well said
buxton59 2 months ago
I didn't take it personal, I'm just saying I wouldn't make presumptions about how Scandanavia should run it's economy because I don't live there. You say what is my evidence? Look at the former USSR, look at Greece today, Zimbabwa, Peurto Rico. You say "equal" so who defines that? You, me, who? We raise taxes constantly in America to make things "equal" yet our debt just grows, I know best what to do with my money, not the govt. Oh BTW, that's funny you think we have a weak left wing here.
motter28218 2 months ago 2
nice job dude
HighSierraCollective 2 months ago in playlist More videos from StormCloudsGathering
Good video and i totally agree, but you need to distinguish between Public and Private to be accurate here. The living man (Private Trust) is free and not taxable, but the Person (Public) is Taxable and is owned by the crown, the thing is that we are NOT the latter, and the presumption that we ARE needs rebutting by us and the burden of proof that we are that Public name should be passed to the revenue department when they come after us. See Dean Clifford on here.
FMOTLGWU 2 months ago
Did you ever think? They print money out of air, as they wish. They say you and I own tax on that money. Well I say just print my share out of that same air. Think about it ? Just think. You may understand the game someday.
gator051 2 months ago
StormCloudsGathering, how do I go about opting out of taxation?
Devidedistand 2 months ago
Tragic disinformation... sigh.
Another victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry.
"Forced" taxation... sigh.
It's all done by consent of the governed. It's in the law.
American governments are delegated power to secure rights.
Rights are not subject to taxation, lest they be diminished.
But government granted privileges are subject to taxation.
He doesn't know how and when he surrendered his rights for the privileges of socialism and usury in a bankrupt country.
jetgraphics 2 months ago
@jetgraphics I havent paid fed income tax for over 10yrs and they do nothing about. I do not volunteer. Years ago when you opened up to page 1 of the 1040 tax book, the commissioners letter started out, " As a volunteer of fed income tax....". We began learning and then stopped paying. As more freed themselves from paying the tax, they removed the word volunteer from the opening letter. The number of non tax payers grows and that is why The Fair Tax Law is being talked about more
lechmo 2 months ago
I know for a fact that income tax was implicted during the First World War was to be temporary,and I so wish there was a way to opt out of paying taxes on my blood sweat and tears wages...but we all gotta die and pay taxes wherever we live.
5749MiMi 2 months ago
Your the one who doesn't live in reality.
gwrath536 2 months ago
And if you don't want to sign that "social contract", that's fine. But you can't excpect to get any benefits from the society then, it would be doublestandarded. You can't go to a public hospital, use public roads or any of that stuff made possible because of the social contract as you put it. When I think of society, I very much think about ALL it's inhabitants, not just myself. I'm happy to pay taxes when I know that OTHER people are going to benefit as well.
qita0 2 months ago
@qita0 That's his point. I live on a dirt road, we got so sick of waiting around for the county to plow it so we bought our own plow, so now I have to pay for fuel as well as the taxes that are supposed to have been doing it in the first place, I'll keep my money thanks and spend it as I see fit. Oh, and I donate directly to people in need, they get every penny of the money, I don't need a politician to do it for me and take a cut in the process.
motter28218 2 months ago
@motter28218 That's what liberal social policy is about. The poor get a penny from here and there (charity). That doesn't however make their situation any better, it only alleviates their situation temporalily. It also stigmatizes the poor. Not something I would call just.
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 But of course, when people know that they are going to benefit from paying taxes (and that everyone else is going to), they will be happy to pay them. Of course this means that the majority of the people (not the small millionaire minority) get's to decide what should those taxes be spent to. E.g free public health care, free public schools, public roads and their maintance etc.
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 The key here is equality. Everyone is a contributer and a benefitter, not just the rich minority who gets the best health care, the best education and so forth. This is why I said that public tax is a powerful way of reducing inequality.
qita0 2 months ago
@qita0 No, it isn't, tell, you throw around that term "the rich" how did they get rich? Did it fall out of the sky? If you think someone has to much money stop buying their product, they don't put a gun to your head and say "give me your money, make me rich" it is a voluntary transaction, you don't solve anything by getting govt goons to forcibly take and distribute money, it has never worked an never will, are you at all watching Greece and Italy lately??
motter28218 2 months ago
@motter28218 No, it's not about "them being rich". It's about the fair distribution of the wealth. First, the kind of rich I'm talking about.. they didn't get rich because of hard work, they inherited their riches, which sounds like monarchy to me. Second, hard working people can not become the kind of rich I am talking about.
You are very wrong with saying it hasn't worked, I happen to live in a such country myself. Just Google the Scandinavian model.
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 There is little or no work related to it. They will reveice interest from banks, and the amount can be bigger than the average persons yearly salary (this is, with no work effort). Now some of them may have become rich on financial speculation. This means that INSTEAD of the money being used for the betterment of the whole community, it can (in the worst cases) result as the opposite -> in loss of jobs, moving the jobs to poor third world countries and so forth
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 So if you decide to glorify the rich (and I'm NOT talking about the middle class here, maybe the upper middle class), pay some thought to it. Who really get's to do the hard physical job, how much are they getting from doing it, in relation to some stock market clerk. Also notice how much each of them is actually contributing to the betterment of the people. Notice how they talk in the news about compulsory cuts in e.g teachers salaries, or cuts in police departments
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 We live in a world of excess, somehow we are being told that there is never enough money, and that we have to make the sacrifices.. Now where is that money going to, what's a better place than making sure that e.g all citizens can count on being treated in a hospital, or getting education. And by only giving the rich access to those services will give a message of "human life's worth can be measured in money"
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 Although I am not a social democrat I could live with that. Anything but this current system of structural violence. That's the kind of coercion you should be worried about.
qita0 2 months ago
@qita0 OK, so you don't even live in America and you're going to lecture us on how things should work here? Do you have a central bank in Scandanavia? You say your system works, how long has it been in place? It "worked" here in America as well, for a time, till the debts came due, I'd also argue you are unaware of what America was founded on and what it is (supposed) to stand for, it is the land of opportunity, and yes, agree/disagree that includes the opportunity to become rich.
motter28218 2 months ago
@motter28218 Hey, no need to take it personally, lol. It's just politics. I take no particular interest in the US, although I find it's political field to be interesting, mainly because of the two-party system and a very weak left wing.
qita0 2 months ago
@motter28218 You're talking about the equality fo opportunity, which I disagree to. The more any society has unequal stuctures and unequal distribution of wealth, the more difficult it is to really obtain true equal opportunity. But yeah, I wouldn't believe in what I say without evidence, I hope that you have some evidence too to back up your values, ideology and so forth.. I believe that we should constantly question the things we take for granted in this world.
qita0 2 months ago
It would be simplistic to say that taxation doesn't work for the betterment of the society (only on the bad aspects). Taxation is a powerful tool to reduce unequality, and indeed make life better for all people in a society. What you're describing here, are merely political nyances. Not every nation that has taxes (and indeed that's the majority) spend them in military, surveillance etc. So I am genuinely interested, are you against public schools, roads, health care etc.?
qita0 2 months ago
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." ~ Thomas Jefferson
dapop1001 2 months ago
i agree with every word said !!
crsbt 2 months ago
Once again truth gushes from your brain like a powerful...truth filled...geyser... of sorts! keep up the good work!
WarrivarNeo 2 months ago
So, does anyone have an idea as to how you would quit paying those taxes when they are deducted from your paycheck ? It's a great idea, but how are you going to do that ? The only way I can think of doing it is by working for cash under the table and not everyone (barely anyone at all) can do that.
jimiray1 2 months ago
@jimiray1 I remember there was a time you could do that. Thirty yrs ago my first job was under the table.
5749MiMi 2 months ago
I am with you brother...we need a new community
creedstat 2 months ago
Do Amish pay taxes?
MinervaInTheBrain 2 months ago
@StormCloudsGathering - great videos, love them... but PLEASE turn down the volume on your closing music, the volume levels throughout the video needs to be in line with each other... It is as annoying as watching TV only to get my ears blasted by the commercials.
sunnsu 2 months ago
Cool Idea: We should give our government an ultimatum! Stop the war by the end of 2012 or everyone who disagrees with the war will STOP paying taxes and arm themselves with deadly weapons and wait upon your arrival to try and steal the money to fund your bullets.
shady2oo7 2 months ago
perfect! i'm thinking that i should memorize the words you've used in this video
motionandcolor 2 months ago in playlist favorites
thumbs up storm. i still say, there's an old law that says taxes are illegal...could be wrong though...anyway, this whole monetary system is just ridiculous. why do we have money...it is the year 2011 and we're like cavemen hoarding and storing gold n silver...for what? to have a big pile to tell others we have more...i'm tired of this selfish shit. there's no need for any kind of a monetary society. use the fing brains GOD gave us and lets all work on a plan for everyone. money=corruption=death
PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE 2 months ago
@PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE ...some of you non-critical thinkers will chastise me and will say..."well, what will make people be productive without an incentive"...sigh...you see, this is the wrong attitude...the new plan will have everyone being productive, educated in various practical fields of survival, farming, medical, social and tech. an educated people will be a better people. people will be supported in their dreams and ideas and that will benefit society. no need for state/fed governments...
PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE 2 months ago
@PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE ...there is no excuse for not all of us using solar, wind power for our homes and cars, with a elct' grid backup when needed. every car by now should at least be hybrid, if not solar and elect'...but big oil is stopping that! there is no need for nuclear...hell, even thermo-elct' is a hell of a lot safer...tap volcanoes! using the ocean for water and power is very viable. we have the tech but greed is stopping us all. people need to be b-slapped for their closed minds...
PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE 2 months ago
@PREPARE4THEHYPOCRITE
All human action is by definition selfish Why should I care if people are hoarding stuff? Using god in your argument does not make that argument any more valid or powerful Money is just a tool like gun or pencil Tool by itself does nothing What if I do not agree with your plan for whatever reason? I have nothing against plans however ridiculous I think they are as long as they are not forced Otherwise you are just tyrant posing as a savior
zbigniewzapora 2 months ago
All those examples that you give to support your rhetoric do not address the quotes from which your video arose in the first place. Yes, I agree I do not want my taxes to fund wars, to support the affluence lifestyle of those in the senate, whitehouse, and fed. I agree! I do not want my taxes to go to waste. However, these quotes and many of the comments on this video do point out, that taxes, need be paid for social programs such as education, and healthcare, welfare, pensions, infrastructure..
measdna 2 months ago
Oh, come on! Our Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says that taxes are voluntary. Would he lie? ;) youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg
BTW - highly recommend Jan Helfeld and his Socratic Interview Method. He's pretty awesome.
plenarchist 2 months ago
Well said, taxation has it's roots in coercion and it continues to today, of course on a more "subtle" level. The state's level of force is surprising, many don't understand what happens when you "don't pay taxes". Government agents come to your house and take everything, it's really quite shocking. Not so different from not paying your local mob their protection money, they will come and take it if they want to. It's a giant U.S. mob, with goons, taking whats yours, for unwanted return.
Occupytheplanet 2 months ago
Great video man...
Truth bombs!
This is why I am refusing to pay anymore taxes or licences.
I am not a slave & I will not pay for bombs, bailouts & bribes any longer.
I am free. & want everyone to be free also.
Keep making the videos mate.
:o)
pimpdarlin 2 months ago
I think the problem with your argument is that you make a blanket statement that ALL taxation is criminal, immoral, etc. And part of your argument - that you didn't sign no damn social contract - is specious, unless you choose to completely disentangle yourself from all society has to offer you. Fine, I say, start a new one! But if you use a road, should you not pay a fee for it? If you are protected by police, should you not pay them? How are we to be assessed these costs if not through taxes?
tomoeDave 2 months ago
@tomoeDave All you listed is paid for by property taxes. This does not come from INCOME taxes!
CathyAdams1000 2 months ago
@tomoeDave since when did politicians have the right to use taxpayer's money for war and killing people in the middle east? I didn't sign up for this, and I should be given a choice whether I should send MY taxes for stuff like this. I will pay for taxes like police protection. Hell, I rather get my own bodyguard because the public police is inefficient. But no, I have a right to NOT pay taxes for wars because it my goddam money.
zen5678 2 months ago
Its exactly the same with the UK. Income tax was introduced as an "emergency measure" to pay for the Napoleonic Wars. Yet we still have it now. An "emergency measure" which has lasted for 200yrs?!? Man, that's gotta be some emergency!!!
JimmyOlde82 3 months ago
The volume was so low on this vid, I had to strain to hear it... needs a reup with new voiceover,
TheRenegadeCupid 3 months ago
as long as you use the sewage-systems built by the state, the roads built by the state, the bridges built by the state, the electrical and utility lines built by the state, the sidewalk built by the state, the police and fire services created by the state....then you got to pay. You signed the contract when you agreed to live in the area under state jurusdiction. Even corporations operate within the area of state jurusdiction. Everything has a legacy of acquisition via prior force anyway.
PersianPaladin 3 months ago
@PersianPaladin They operate within their own jurisdiction....aka the corporations.
Iwillgiveyouctime 3 months ago
But, but, but, it's just so much easier for me if the government just takes the money out of my paycheck so that I don't have to make those difficult decisions about which charity should get my money. I just don't have time for that. I'll just pass my responsibility to help those less fortunate, on to the government. It is on them, now.
[/sarcasm]
mikemat3307 3 months ago
is very low, I can't even hear it
nayita85 3 months ago
riiiiight.......cuz business is so much more unwilling to drop bombs.
Hoopmov 3 months ago
well said
splifsend 3 months ago
music at the end killed my ears - but apart from that - well done!
PixelsAtHand 3 months ago
Well done bang on.
AwesomeChannelTV 3 months ago
My feelings exactly Storm... appreciate all your posts.
godisrising 3 months ago
What do we do about it?
Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party? The government exists by leeching off our income like a parasite. If the people stop paying in mass then it will end.
British taxes led to the Boston Tea Party. Gun confiscation led to Lexington and Concord.
There's only so much the people will take.
bigrozo 3 months ago
@bigrozo As long as "THEY" have the printing press, it won't matter. It will never end. When we the people control the money THEN it will end because then our taxes WILL be needed to survive. Until then? Realize that the people in control allows us to actually enforce the constitution on "them" because of the provisions. Such as Redress of Grievance. If we don't pay taxes when they NEED THEM they listen. They could care less, it just covers the fraud and makes people THINK taxes are needed!
courageouslion 3 months ago
I don't like Capitalism and I don't like taxation....
23lFrench 3 months ago
@23lFrench You might like TRUE capitalism not the crap that passes for it today. IE Crony capitalism.
courageouslion 3 months ago
The US existed fine without the Income Tax. When they implemented the Federal Income Tax in 1916 they promised it would only be for rich people. They promised that it wouldn't lead to our losing our privacy... Today the federal government has a handle on every significant financial asset you possess. In direct violation of the 4th and 5th amendment they coerce you into complete disclosure. Now they have expanded that to your private health information.
Got freedom?
politicalGRAFFITI 3 months ago 19
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firedawn2u 2 months ago
The real debate shouldn't be whether or not its immoral. Its what are you going to do about it? Complain complain yap yap rant rant all you want, but that does nothing to solve the problem. What would you suggest we do? None of us pay taxes at all thus ending civilization as we know it? What is your alternative plan?
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 The belief that civilization would collapse in the absence of the state is analogous to what religion has to say about the church. It is a tautology simply reiterating the emotional requirements of dogma in the face of it's overwhelmingly irrational premises.An alternative plan to taxation looks an awful lot like an alternative plan to prayer. Stop believing in superstition, and stop advocating for violence. Only then can a clear-headed discussion take place.
Fathoms2004 3 months ago 17
@Fathoms2004 You stated that without some state or institutional form of government, civilization would still exist. In essence you stated that civilization can exist without civilization. Every successful civilization in history has had a form of taxes. Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Babylon, Hebrews, Assyrians, Turks, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Carthaginians, the list quite literally goes on. Religion is a PERSONAL belief. Civilization is a collective of people. Comparing the two is a folly.
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 Ignoring that Ireland went stateless for over a thousand years, had every successful pregnancy in history been facilitated by rape it would not mean that rape was essential to reproduction, or that practicing it was virtuous. To say that religion is a separate issue from government is to ignore that statism emerged out of the belief that it was the living embodiment of God's will on earth, which is why examples of states existing without religion are recent developments.
Fathoms2004 3 months ago
@Fathoms2004 Whenever an area of the world went "stateless" for an extended period of time that means that there was no recognizable civilization there. Yes there were villages of irish people, but as I've state before to another person, they were just a large number of barbaric tribes. Every time civilization disappears there is always people, but uncivilized people. Civilization=Government=Order. No civilization=no government=anarchy.
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 Government subsists off the excess capital generated by the productive class. It's existence is made possible by civilization, not the other way around. Disease can only form wherever live tissue is available. But all this is neither here nor there. What I'm advocating is a moral-philosophical sea-change without precedent in history. All these words you are throwing around are ex-post-facto rationalizations for violence. It is not proper to force ones worldview on others.
Fathoms2004 3 months ago
@Fathoms2004 Do you even know what you're saying or are you just contempt to throw words around that make you sound smart? Government is where a group of people come together, decide on a certain way on how they should conduct themselves and any laws they deem necessary. Civilization is when an even larger group of people decide which form of Government they wish to use, and then enact it in order to attempt to express order on the public. Without civilization we're back to small tribes of...
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 (cont)This is what creates civilization. The state is simply composed of people who live in a world of moral opposites. Moral rules that are generally agreed on by the community (don't hit people, don't take their stuff), don't apply to them. What a law is some stranger saying he now has the right to capture or kill anyone who doesn't comply with this or that arbitrary demand on their behavior. This is hardly civilized, or civilizing behavior.
Fathoms2004 3 months ago
@Fathoms2004 Without civilization we're back to small tribes of humans roaming around and doing anything they can in order to survive. A style of life that I, for one, do not want to take part in. You speak of a moral-philosophical sea-change that you advocate, well what is this so called miracle plan? Please tell us all of your great plan to get rid of all taxation while keeping the world civilized and organized?
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 It's called the US Constitution. Those dumb asses wrote 200+ years ago, so we can be free. Where t he PEOPLE control the government and not the super rich and corporations. The taxes it enbodies are imposts, duties and excise and worked great until the civil war when Lincoln went on a hey day screwing us all over and violating the Constitution like a drunken whore. IT worked good before and can work good again. Just needs to be followed. Read the LAW THAT NEVER WAS for a start.
courageouslion 3 months ago
@swordo21 Civilization can do without men ruling over other men and enslaving them. Google, Beware the Psychopath my Son by Clinton Callahan to read the REST OF THE STORY!
courageouslion 3 months ago
@swordo21 These are all post hoc rationalizations for beliefs which were never freely reasoned into. The reason people believe the state is responsible for creating civilization is because as children they were forced to spend twelve years in government education camp at a time in their lives when they were intellectually and emotionally defenseless against propaganda. This indoctrination replaces reality with words. In reality, there is just people living and interacting in the marketplace....
Fathoms2004 3 months ago
@swordo21 OH GOD! NOT ANARCHY! So cops driving around "enforcing" idiotic thought crime laws is civilization? I'll take anarchy...at least lets try it. Anarchy is simply self government. You rape you hang. We will see to it. There are ALWAYS laws. Jefferson called them laws of nature.
courageouslion 3 months ago
@courageouslion Two things. One, if you want an example of Anarchy already in effect look at the nation of Somalia. Real cheery place isn't it? With all the murder, war lords, and starvation. Two, you called the founding fathers of America dumb-asses, but then go on to praise their creation (the constitution) for providing fair and just laws and taxation which wasn't outlandish and providing the people with power. I honestly agree that their system was best so what is your argument exactly?
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 OH, I didn't realize you lived in Somalia and were an expert on the culture. So I stand corrected. I had no idea it was so terrible. OH, WAIT, you DON'T live in SOMALIA? My bad. So who do you know that does and that is feeding you their version of what it is like? The MEDIA? Oh hell, I always believe them. As for the Founding Father remark? That was supposed to be dry humor. They are treated like dumb asses by the majority of the population that really are dumb asses.
courageouslion 3 months ago
@swordo21 One other thing.... as for the murder, war lords and starvation? Let's see, how many innocent people are DEAD because the police fucked up and shot some innocent person in the war on drugs? How many "war lord" departments are sending out swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? The names? The weapons?\ And as for starvation...believe me there are people starving in the USA right now while you write. Or at least badly malnourished.
courageouslion 3 months ago
@courageouslion You really are ignorant aren't you? How do I know? Who was feeding me my information? It was my father before he died there. Something tells me that you either were never taught, or just plain forgot that war we fought over there to try and overthrow said war lords and restore order and government, but then more ignorant pricks like you called for the war to stop leaving me without a dad and not even a good reason for his death. And America's "poor" are rich compared to others.
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 Wow, I'm glad you enlightened us. I never would have realized that civilization EQUALS a gang of parasitic, violently aggressive, narcissistic megalomaniacs, harassing, robbing and extorting everyone else. I always thought being "civilized" meant peacefully coexisting--the opposite of "government." Thanks for enlightening me.
LarkenRose 3 months ago
@Fathoms2004
right on!
eligarf 3 months ago
and even that was forced up on me,i didnt want to fight for oil
evrtrea 3 months ago
good way to put it stormclouds,and as to how u beat the irs jaketowson well u dont work a job that takes the taxes first before u get ur money,yah that is a choice that will hurt alot of people,but only in the level of comfort they are currently living in,actually its quite a liberating feeling,i would even go so far as to say it is the source of true power in the system we are currently being forced to particiapate in,and i did chip i serve 4 year in the army and went to the fist gulf war
evrtrea 3 months ago
How do you beat the IRS though?
Income tax are automatically withheld from salary.
jaketowson 3 months ago
There's someone else who loved income taxes.
Karl Marx
It's a core plank of communism. As is a central bank and public education. In fact we have fulfilled most if not all of the planks.
bigrozo 3 months ago
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-Thomas Jefferson
bigrozo 3 months ago
Furthermore, how are you going to 'opt out' of taxes? The only way I could think of is if you leave society...and technically you can do that. Good luck not paying taxes anywhere else.
What's the alternative? How do you run a government without taxes? Or how do you create a society without a governing body? Nothing else seems feasible, and any idea I've ever heard that could 'solve' these problems are just as idealistic and unworkable as Communism.
ImPerpl3xd 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd The purpose of our Government as founded in the constitution is to protect the peoples Liberty. It is not to take care of people from craddle to grave, it is not to take Liberty in order to have security, it is not to deprive us of our rights to what we own!, it is not to deprive us our rights to freedom and our rights to keeping what we earn!
The government is to protect our Liberty DOMESTIC. But they are failing EXTREMELY bad at that.
NaturalGroundation 3 months ago
@NaturalGroundation I don't really get how any of that has to do with what I said. I agree with you...the government shouldn't be putting troops all over the world. The TSA is bullshit. Our liberties are being eroded. And I understand that the government shouldn't necessarily provide people with a free ride and doesn't represent us.
But that doesn't make a case against taxation itself, explain how it's immoral or dispute the idea of a social contract.
ImPerpl3xd 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd If someone were to come up to you, point a gun at you and demand your money, that is called armed robbery. If the government does the same thing (demanding your money under threats of coercion), it is called "paying your fair share". Why is it OK for one and not the other? Another way to look at it is that when one person or group has the ability to take the fruits of another person's labor, that effectively makes them a slave to the first group.
(Cont)
Reindeer911 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd (Pt 2) So it really revolves around trying to justify being able to take another person's property by means of coercion. Thing is that the issue isn't taxation in and of itself, but the personal income tax. There are plenty of other ways that a government can raise money... and let's not forget that the U.S. government existed and thrived 150 years before the passing of the 16th Amendment. Even then, for the first 20 years afterwards income taxes were voluntary.
(cont)
Reindeer911 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd (Pt 3) But to get back to the point, what if our government were to nationalize the Fed, and pin the value of the dollar to the physical value of the United States itself (the value of a currency does not have to be based on a precious metal and still be value based). The government itself could then issue loans at interest and use the income from the interest payments to pay for public works. Under a system like that, a personal income tax wouldn't be necessary.
Reindeer911 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd So I can walk up to you or your bank and take money for say the 10 extra kids i decided to have that i cant support?
No?
Ok well I will just goto the government then because its all fair right?
NaturalGroundation 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. The government is JUST LIKE ENGLAND!!! Dictating to us how we should live our lives, dictating to us how much we should pay, dictating to us that touching our wives squeezing there breasts and touching the insides of their crotches IS GOOD FOR US. WELL BS! A government CAN run on excise taxes, it CAN run on export taxes, it CAN run with a military meant for just protecting ITSELF and not fighting with the WORLD! Fake paper fiat money....
NaturalGroundation 3 months ago
@ImPerpl3xd Do you think citizens had to do with the conversion to a FIAT money system? OR our PROVERBIAL ENGLAND called the US Govt. ? yea... No joke... Guess things never change HAIL US GOVT! HAIL OBAMA! HAIL GLOBALISTS! HAIL COPORATIONS! HAIL HAIL HAIL... Welcome Comrades!! How shall we control our masses today????
NaturalGroundation 3 months ago
This video seems to confuse some things. He rails against the idea of a Social Contract and says taxation is immoral, and then goes on to degrade the things that are done with tax money.
I agree that the things that are done with our tax money are immoral and criminal, but that does not negate the idea of taxes themselves or make the idea of taxes immoral in and of itself. Would you consider the use of Nuclear energy immoral simply because it can be used to create bombs?
ImPerpl3xd 3 months ago
Great video. Everyone who dissents is in for a rude awakening. The income tax goes directly to the interest on the federal reserve's debt. None of it is spent on anything "for the betterment of society." Wake the f*ck up, people. If it truly was for the betterment of society, you wouldn't be FORCED to pay it.
apell711 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
great as always and exactly why I subscribe.
shippyshiphead 3 months ago
Comment removed
shippyshiphead 3 months ago
I normally love your videos but this one does not wake people up or inform them. I suggest you educate them (even if you don't remember all the references like you often say). How about telling people which taxes go where and why income tax is criminal? This video won't achieve much imo, it just makes people wrong who don't know better.
sebkarlsson 3 months ago
You got it all right. Nice job!
AndyWright68 3 months ago
Cont. from below.. Just the other day at the Occupy movement a 19 year old Pregnant girl, a Priest and an 84 year old Woman were All Pepper sprayed! The Amazing thing is, in this Country, Every one stands and WATCHES THIS and DO Nothing! Americans are weak. They DARE do nothing to Help the fellow People. I was born here, lived my life here. You may not have WANTED to leave under Those conditions. It may be a blessing for you as you watch this Country Smolder from within. Joel.
hotheadedjoelhaha 3 months ago
How are You doing. Very good video by the way. please make more, what you have to say is very important to America. But once again, How Are You? No you dont have to give the whole story. And no, we here are not so much nosy as concerned. The Wife, Child(2)? How are things for You all? I myself do Not know where you had to go. Do you Feel better being out of this Police State? Please P.M. me if you like. The Occupy movement is a joke here, you know that, but just yesterday.. I will continue..
hotheadedjoelhaha 3 months ago
You can legally stop paying income taxes by not having any income. Only problem is, home ownership is not allowed in America today, so you would have no way to pay the property taxes on your domicile/shelter/farm. And that forces you to labor--slavery. Property taxes are the most immoral form of tax, because the only way to avoid them is to die.
basspig 3 months ago
taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed
37butterflyprincess 3 months ago
The argument is not only what tax money buys... but rather the fact that someone can take a percentage of the fruit or YOUR labor earned by the sweat of YOUR brow goes against the very idea of America. You want to talk about streets and firemen... who pays for those services? 40% of Americans do not pay taxes. The "evil" 1% pays over half of the revenue generated by taxes. And yet 100% of the people get to walk on a side walk, or drive on a street payed for by 60% of the people.1776 NEVER FORGET
AssRape1776 3 months ago
you just owned him.
Veikra 3 months ago
If you want to live in the imaginary little world where everything that makes civilization possible is free then go ahead, but please don't talk to us with your head so far up your own ass to the point where you can't even hear your own voice.
swordo21 3 months ago
Okay don't pay taxes, but the next time your house burns down you can put it out yourself. Also the next time you go into cardiac arrest you can drive your own damn self to the hospital and if someone steals all your stuff then I'm sure you can find the time to track down the criminal yourself. Don't want to pay taxes then don't get any of its benefits. You can repair your own damn roads and if someone invades then you can fight them yourself.
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 Insurance, tolls, and a shot gun.... there, I just solved your elementary argument.
cevansroxy 3 months ago
@cevansroxy I didn't realize that police and firemen were funded by insurance... (that was sarcasm)
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 It would be better than having them funded at gunpoint.
philliproemer21 3 months ago
@philliproemer21 don't want to pay taxes? well you can always go live in the middle of the wilderness somewhere. If you want civilization then it takes money. Find a decent way to collect money without taxes and THEN you can complain about the current system.
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 Did Celtic Ireland (650-1650), the Icelandic Commonwealth (930-1262), or the early New England settlements of Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, or Albemarle require taxes? No. Taxes are immoral and are not required for civilization.
If I don't like being robbed and bullied by the criminal organization known as the state, why should I have to leave? To me, it seems much more fitting that the criminals get out.
philliproemer21 3 months ago
@philliproemer21 Thank you very much for proving how ignorant you really are. Both Celtic Ireland and the Icelandic commonwealth (in the time frame you specified) were more a collective of warring barbarian tribes than any functioning civilization. Also Rhode Island and Pennsylvania very much had to pay taxes. Every single British colony had to pay taxes that was mandated by the King. A civilization takes money to run. Don't want to pay then leave the civilization and be on your own.
swordo21 3 months ago
@swordo21 Bro. Bro. We don't call people ignorant on the Internet. It's not nice.
lepurkankingv2 3 months ago
@lepurkankingv2, aha ha ha ha ha ha...ooow weee awwww I needed that.
wood9670 3 months ago
@lepurkankingv2 Oh my bad you're right. We call them trolls on the internet.
swordo21 3 months ago
Force and coercion are bad regardless of source.
MyOnlyFarph 3 months ago
Isn't that title redundant? Going on the assumption of morality, wouldn't it be concisely put as,
"Taxation Is Immoral"? Is there any sort of taxation that isn't forced? If you're calling it donations "from the goodness of your heart", that isn't taxation. All taxation is forced.
SomethingSea1 3 months ago
brilliant as usual... thank you my friend!!!
dazz1ful 3 months ago
Look I agree with all off you!! And we can sit around and bitch amongst eachother all you want!! Truth is?? This has all been done by design!! Th!NK why?? What does history truly tell us? It's gonna collapse rather we like it or not!! This is done on purpose and there is nothing we can do about it!! And trust me like u! I will die trying!! The good times are over folks and this is just the beginning of things yet to come!! This is REAL TALK!
briggsley 3 months ago
Hey I agree with you. We need to vote for Ron Paul 2012, he's the only one who will restore America
tommy35ss 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tommy35ss stop wasting time on politics - anarchism is the only way - search for stefbot or freedomain radio here on youtube - you can thank me later
bestonlineguide 3 months ago
This guy also needs to learn a bit more about contract law. You don't have to sign a contract in order for a contract to exist. There's implied consent, consent by inaction, etc. All real legal concepts in contract law. If he is that unhappy, he does have options. There are nearly 200 other contries in the world, instead of choosing to live in one you object so strongly to, find another one more suitable for yourself.
MaryJo1950 3 months ago
Hmm. This video isn't an appeal to emotion at all is it? As if all tax revenue goes solely for wars - making the claim that since taxes have been used to fund bad things (war) then there should just be no taxation. Ignoring all of the very important things that taxes also contribute to.
MaryJo1950 3 months ago
yeah, but do you want public schools? do you want a police force that is responsible for protecting your rights? do you want protection against war on US soil? do you want peace of mind knowing that it's highly unlikely your wife or any other person has a bomb or weapon on that plane? don't you want a place to put dangerous criminals? i do.
i don't claim to know a lot about politics or government. but it is my understanding that these things that we expect as american citizens aren't free.
steezmonster92 3 months ago