How many times do you think RFK could deport and insult the mafia godfathers on television before SOMEONE had to pay for it? Remember the question overheard and recorded when a few of the mafia officers were meeting to decide how to handle the Kennedys? What is the best way to stop a biting dog? You cut off its head! Jack Kennedy was the head of the government while his brother was telling the mafia that they giggled like little girl, BAD move!
@Habfan1909 Vietnam also had a lot to do with it, add in the bay of pigs, JFK ignoring the joint chiefs and pentagon of their operation northwoods, the 1st strike policy with russia, to invade Cuba, Loas or indo china. his actions against big banks, big steel and big oil (including big texas oil billionaires) his support of african nationalism, algerian independence, his favor towards "we the people" over we the elite and super rich. and his desire 2 limit the CIAs power
it was a whole different era back then- the south was being threatened to change from the kennedy admin- a whole lot of ignorance ruled the day- we associated any reform or change as a commie plot. even though the democrats in texas were a majority -there was a divide between dems in the north. kennedy needed a southern demt to help in the south- lbj signed up -but the backers of lbj hated kennedy, lbj in alot of ways was night and day compared to jfk. black kids needed the nat. guard -school
@cuzco1231 LOL, yea it caught me as well. After looking a little closer you realize it was a lady wearing a big pair of those white sixties "cat glasses" with dark lenses. Kinda creepy the way she leans in and out of frame though...yikes - :)
You don't hae to be a genius to know it was either Cuba striking back after the failed attempt on Castro's life or the soviet government making a move to weaken America
I don't see much on this film that's going to tell us anything one way or the other, except maybe the shots of the Book Depository--which might indicate just who was ln those upper floor windows at the time of the assassination. There has always been controversy about that.
Arlen Specter's first award was given to him by B'nai B'rith in 1966, when he received the Jewish Freemasons' Youth Services Award. He is a devoted zionist jew who comes from a family of zealous zionists. When Specter ran for president in 1996 he said the first thing he would do if elected would be to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and recognize the occupied city as the capital of Israel.
Wiki: Arlen Specter worked for the Warren Commission investigating the assassination of JFK, he authored the controversial "single bullet theory," which suggested the non-fatal wounds to Kennedy and wounds to Texas Governor John Connally were caused by the same bullet. This was a crucial assertion since if the two had been wounded by separate bullets, that would have demonstrated the presence of a second assassin and therefore a conspiracy.
Johnson's arrival in the Oval Office represented a sea change in American Middle Eastern policy, establishing the Israel-First direction of every American Chief Executive from LBJ onward, to the detriment of the independence of the American government from the undue influence of the Israeli lobby, the maintenance of regional peace and stability in the most dangerous area of the globe, and any vestiges of hope for positive American political relationships with the Islamic world.
The Israeli government was the driving force behind the death of John F. Kennedy. The removal of JFK brought an end to American demands for IAEA inspections of the Israeli nuclear program, and the ascension to the White House of Lyndon Johnson, whose long ties to Meyer Lansky and Carlos Marcello had assisted the barefoot boy of the Texas Hill Country in his arrival at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
In 1963, the go-between for the Israeli lobby and Israeli intelligence with the American so-called underworld was (international) crime lord Meyer Lansky, the real power player in American organized crime in the 1950s and 1960s, the superior of Giancana, Roselli, Marcello, Mickey Cohen... and other participants in the JFK murder. Lansky's role as a zealous zionist involved links between his criminal empire, his Miami-based banks, and the Banque de Credit International (BCI).
Conflict between the 35th President and Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, principally over Israel's failure to submit its Dimona operation to International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspection, and secondarily to a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians was one if the most under-reported stories that came out of "Camelot". Dimona, in 1963, was a taboo subject. In 2010, the (illegal Israeli) nuclear topic remains relevant.
In 2004, Israeli nuclear whistleblower Mordecai Vanunu (a jewish convert to Christianity) was released by authorities after 18 years imprisonment (11 in solitary confinement) for a treason conviction related to the disclosure of state secrets re: the Israelis' (illegal) nuclear program. He credited the Mossad with the assassination of President Kennedy, who insisted that the zionist state come clean about its (illegal) nuclear program at the infamous Dimona plant in the Negev.
This is just awful quality. It's basically useless. You know, I had heard about this film. It showed up very late in the conspiracy game. People just dismissed it. Now I know why.
@FrlghtWolf Well in 1963 this was the technology of home movies. There is no clear professional film of the assassination, since the motorcade camera car which was usually in front of the Presidents's car to facilitate photographing of the JFK was inexplicably placed (by the SS) several cars behind JFK and could only photograph the friendly crowd. So there is no clear motion picture film with sound of the assassination. Wonder why that happened?
@TrueNovice Oh stop it with the "conspiracy" thing. My god, you ever use critical thinking in your lives? I swear, if you fell asleep with a cigarette in your hand and then your house burned down, you would find a way to blame the government. Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend of this government but the whole JFK thing just got WAY out of hand. Lee Harvey Oswald did it. He got lucky. There is no "magic bullet". There are no "shadowy" figures on the grassy knoll. There is no Easter bunny-rabbit.
@TrueNovice I don't even own a TV. I read. I pause and reflect logically before I open my mouth or run to conclusions. I'm not emotional about it. The difference between my position and yours is that I don't run out and adopt other people's position. After 47 years of this stuff, I'm rather confident that there is no "conspiracy". Now, of course, you'll accuse me of being a CIA agent? Or, perhaps, a member of the Illumenatti?
@FrlghtWolf No I still think you are just a jerk. I can't imagine the CIA hiring you, or even Oswald who was probably far more intelligent than you. But anyway, enlighten us with your "critical thinking skills" as to why they put the camera car way behind the President where they were unable to even see him, let alone film him?
@FrlghtWolf Explain to me how you can shoot at someone from behind and have their head fly in the opposite direction that the bullet was traveling.
Also shooting at someone through a tree at a moving target 88 yards away and getting 3 shots off in 6 seconds with 1 being a headshot is impossible. Why did Lee Harvey Oswald not shoot at the president coming up Houston. He would have had a wide open shot, and if he missed, the car would just get closer for his second shot.
@FrlghtWolf my friend … whether you would like to admit or not (and believe me i didn't either) … this country and its government has never been the same since Nov 22nd, 1963. War after War, scandal after scandal, and cover up after cover up … enough already! its not about who shot this man anymore … its about how many more lies do "We The People" have to endure … and how many more innocent lives are destroyed in the process.
@joeylodes you are listening to too much Coast to Coast and Alex Jones. There's always a new conspiracy with the conspiracy nuts- from Princess Diana to 911. Move on basement dwellers.
hhmmmmmm y r there no close ups hhhmmmmmm? y so many dark shadowy parts? and wheres the grass verge cmon its so phoney u think people are so dumb dont u but its only u!
jiwasz, you are silly as you say. More than silly.
Ignorant people like to believe only what their rabbi (master) or pastor or the television tells them. Unless they hear it from their television set then, it's just not true.
That's why they're called brainwashed zombie sheeple.
Without an independently functioning brain you're just a tool.
Freemasons control AP news source which gives all news outlets the words they must parrot for their masonic brethren. They hide Obomba's idiocy, hide his masonic zionist gang unity, hide that he's a puppet of Kissinger & Zionist Israelis'e New World Order that is to be had by committing genocide around the world & by robbing the middle classes of the world through fake wars & through the Trojan Horse which is the central bank of industrialized nations.
The Federal Reserve Bank is complicit in killing JFK to preserve their illegal practices and warprofiteering. They participated in the 9/11 attacks and had foreknowlege as many have proven by pointing out masonic symbols on the Federal Reserve Bank note that are sinister admissions of foreknowledge of the coming Freemasons attack on the WTC on 9/11. They put Obomba in office and he robbed the US Treasury to repay them and to repay ABC et al for giving him seemingly unlimited mass media coverage.
Freemasons worship the Egyptian sun god Ra and the Eye of Horus which is a symbol on the Federal Reserve Bank note. Lincoln and JFK were both killed for issuing bank notes that would put the illegal bankers out of business. The masonic bankers contrived the Revolitionary and Civil War for their own profit. The Civil War was about robbing Southern banks. Lincoln was at war with masonic bankers, not with the south. The south was fighting the bankers who were robbing & oppressing them through usury
And here I thought Lincoln was killed by a Southern simpathizer who learned that he was planning to grant certain African Americans the right to vote and assassinated him before he could pass the amendment. Silly me.
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The masons used their black magic symbol throughout America. Masonic obelisks are in every city of America. Masons contrive "race" riots. They started the riots in Watts and Birmingham England as well as the riots in Watts and Birmingham USA. Think that's a coincidence? Think again.
The obelisk represents sun worship. Masons Believe they are the Jews who fought Pharoahs of Egypt, let by Imhotep aka Moses to begin a New World Order by usurping ALL nations and controlling ALL money.
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Make that 322. 3+2+2= 7. The number 322 is the number under their symbol of a Skull & Bones. The Freemason tricked settlers into coming to America for "land and opportunity" failing to tell them they'd have to fight for their lives. War was a business, designed for Freemasons' profit. They took back the boats that brought immigrants to America, immigrants who were deliberately starved out of Ireland & England by their own government. Frenchmen came after they were robbed & threatened with death.
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None of the crap Hollywood films about JFK or Nixon are worth a damn. Oliver Silverstein may be related to 9/11 Larry Silverstein so you can't trust Olie for truth about JFK, Nixon, Vietnam or 9/11. These zionist stick together, especially ones connected through Yale University where the Skull & Bones frat house was founded with money John Kerry's family provided from their activities in the opium trade. Skull & Bonesmen love the number 322 because 3+3+2=7 which means killing is profit for them.
That is, KISSINGER and HOOVER advised Nixon to spy.
Hoover was spying on everyone and using the information to help zionist Freemason Bilderberg sociopath Kissinger run the American government through bribes and intimidation, even terror.
Nixon was afraid that Hoover would kill him if Nixon ousted Hoover. Hoover did in fact kill JFK or had Kissinger kill JFK because there's no way in hell that JFK would be Hoover or Nixon's zionist puppet.
That said, Obomba is no JFK. He's a zionist puppet.
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Nixon and Hoover advised Nixon to spy. Hoover was the notorious spy who spied on all members of congress in order to railroad them if they exposed the secret society's New World Order plans or how zionist Freemason bankers used the Federal Reserve Bank as their Trojan Horse to control American policy and to rob Americans from the inside. Nixon had to spy to outmaneuver Hoover who spied on the government from the inside. Nixon wanted Hoover ousted so Hoover and Kissinger set-up Nixon. It's taped.
Kissinger and Hoover had played the war game for years. They took down Nixon after stealing America's military to fight a war in Gaza for Zionist Israelis. Hoover knew JFK had printed currency that would put the Federal Reserve Bank cabal out of business. Freemasons were the secret society that JFK asked us to help him fight. They robbed America through illegal wars, and continue to do so. They supply weapons to communists then demand Americans fight these "communists." It's win-win for masons.
JFK's enemies were not Diem nor Castro, nor Russia. Zionist Freemasons such as Kissinger masterminded the lies that started and escalated the Vietnam slaughterfest. Kissinger helped sell arms to Russia to pass to the government created "communist" ghost enemy. Kissinger and his zionist gang played both sides of the war, to profit from weapons sales. Zionists are sociopathic industrialists and bankers. Their Trojan Horse is the illegal Federal Reserve Bank from which they rob the US Treasury.
Thanks for posting this. I hadn't yet seen a decent verson of this film. It offers an interesting view of the immediate aftermath. (I cringe to think of how the "press bus" handled the hairpin turn at Elm & Houston!)
Go to the video titled, Texas School Book Depository Employees - Part 3
At the 2:56 minute mark, you will see & hear James Jarman, Jr... He is the man who assassinated President Kennedy.
The two previous guys shown, Norman & Williams were co-conspirators. Along with Charles Douglas Givens (Not shown)...
Do an "MSN" search with the key words, James Jarman, Jr., Assassin, for the entire story... The 8th site listed, "The John F" is the most comprehensive...
All these posts and you still don't answer my question about what you think JFK should have done during the Cuban missile crisis....Nor do you offer proof that JFK had Diem killed.
kac56, just read "The Kennedy Men" by Lawrence Leamer, the official Kennedy biographer. He didn't have Diem killed, but he knew and did nothing to stop. It was saying yes without speaking
I have the book. I'll look for any references to the Diem coup.
I have little doubt that JFK likely knew about the coup, but I still maintain he did not know the generals would kill him. I believe the plan was to exile him but things got out of hand.
You're absolutely correct. I just thought about that a little while ago. He found out they shot him, but did nothing for retribution against the murderers. Of course, he didn't have much time to do so either...
JFK had BROWN HAIR and WIDE EVEN-CUT SIDEBURNS throughout his presidency. See JFKs hair on videos ?v=xE0iPY7XGBo on his inauguration and ?v=Mt1Dm0Od0lA (on this limo death ride film at1:23).
JD Tippit (the JFK cop look-a-like) had BLACK HAIR and NARROW SLANT UPPER-CUT SIDEBURNS. See Tippits BLACK HAIR and NARROW SLANT UPPER-CUT SIDEBURNS on the morgue table that the govt labeled 'JFK Autopsy'.
I dont give a damn about a point system. I dont argue about history for credit. You sound like a fuckin idiot. To me, to everyone else. Hows that for a label?
The Saigon government was headed by President Ngo Dinh Diem, an autocratic, nepotistic ruler who valued power more than either his relations with the Vietnamese people or progress in fighting the communists.
Mark Moyer "Trumph Forsaken The Vietnam war 1954-1965." " Numerous bits of conventional wisdom have accreted around the vietnam war... That Diem was an unpopular and repressive reactionary". Mark Moyar, a young, bold and iconoclast historian takes a sledge hammer to these hoary beliefs." By the way, this is required reading at the US Naval Academy. Have you ever seen this book? I doubt it.
Diem was doing well holding down the viet cong. Everything wnt to shit after JFK killed Diem and destabilized the government. South vietnam never recovered. It was in a downward spiral ever since Diem was killed.
for anybody to say that JFK did not give ultimate approval of the coup would have to say JFK had no control over his government, his cabinet, the JCS. To say he was always misled by the military is no excuse either. If he was misled, then he was misled over and over and over again. Why wasnt Eisenhower misled? Why wasnt LBJ and Nixon misled? I guess only JFK was so easily misled.
did you read the part where Lodge and JFK are discussing setting up a vietnamese military to fight the viet cong, with no political base"? Fighting the war at the behest of foreigners."?
The responsibility for the assassinations was generally put on the shoulders of Minh. Conein asserted that "I have it on very good authority of very many people, that Big Minh gave the order,"[22] as did William Colby, the director of the CIA's Far Eastern division. Don was equally emphatic, saying "I can state without equivocation that this was done by General Duong Van Minh and by him alone."[
Minh was recruited by the CiA, along with the other generals, as part of the policy set by JFK and the joint chiefs- to carry out a coup. If you know anything about covert operations and the CIA, you will recognize the pattern. I guess you dont know. JFK just loved to run covert operations, all over the world.
After you finish reading "A Death in November", then you can go on to read Mark Moyers book. Now I am digging out my copy of the Pentagon Papers. More to come....for the fairy tale believers.
The coup plotters were also backed up by a US carrier task force, and an amphibious landing group. After the murders, of course nobody wanted to take responsibility. But the ultimate responsibility rests with JFK. Thats the nature of the job. The buck stops here, as Truman said. The end result of foreign policies initiated and planned by JFK were the responsibility of JFK.
According to General Maxwell Taylor, Kennedy leaped to his feet and rushed from the room with a look of shock and dismay on his face which I had never seen before.[17] Kennedy had planned that Diem would be safely exiled and Arthur Schlesinger recalled that the U.S. president was somber and shaken
JFK was in shock because he felt the full weight of responsibility for the death of Diem and Nhu. "Years earlier JFK met Diem and he was impressed By Diem's single minded dedication to the cause of indenpendence of his country. Now the first catholic president of Vietnam was dead, assasinated as a direct action of the first catholic president of the US."
glad to see you got the book. Make sure you read chapter 8, "Washington Decides for a coup." And read the part where it talks about all the cabinet members saying they found JFK's statement about ending the war in 1965 to be absolutely ludicrous. Just like "Mission Accomplished."
as malcolm X said when JFK was assasinated-"the chickens came home to roost." JFK carried out covert ops all over the world. All poorly planned and none were successful. Live by thesword, die by the sword. Another book I suggest is legacy of ashes, the history of the cia. It discusses covert ops run by all presidents, including JFK. We are still feeling the bad consequences today from all of these failed operations.
One thing is obvious, after readding the accounts of JFK's meetings and the transcripts of his communications. JFK never had an overarching plan or idea about anything. He would bring his "best and brightest " (of which they were neither) boys together, and he would ask each one what their opinion was. At the end, JFK would decide what the policy would be based on what was said. Because he operated this way, his policies would always vacillate.
"Oh yeah and Bush's "gut instinct" isn't ludicrous to you?" You are just like all the other fairy tale believers here, trying to change the subject, totally missing the point. I compared JFK predicting we will be out of vietnam by 1965, during a time when he was planning a coup, which he had no way of knowing the outcome (it was very bad), to George Bush on the aircraft carrier saying mission accomplished. It is a very apt comparison.
Another one of these sheep said JFK was not responsible for the war in vietnam because at one time he said "we need to get out of vietnam." I pointed out that in 2005, Bush said "we need to get out of Iraq." So by this logic, Bush is not responsible for the war in Iraq. I think I am saying something you sheep have never heard before, and you have no canned responses to put forth, so you are completely speechless.
why dont you put the labels down and analyze the facts for what they are. You will see that all of your previous conclusions will seem silly. Gosh darn that military and CIA, always misleading our hero JFK. They always seem to get him in trouble, bay of pigs, cuban missile crisis, vietnam war. Even though JFK was commander in chief, and he hired all of the cabinet heads, including the head of the CIA, somehow once they took up their posts, they suddenly all started plotting against JFK.
Listen you jack ass. Dont assume anything about my intelligence. JFK was a movie and any person who gets their facts from a movie is an idiot- something I am not. I made an assumption on your intelligence because rather than go on a Bush video and talk shit about him, or a Calvin Coolidge or Herbert Hoover video, ur here... THEY sucked. JFK didnt get enough years in the White House to prove anything. But in his small window he saved us from Nuclear Annihilation during the Crisis of 62.
oh believe me, I am not assuming anything about your intelligence. The first sentence and you already put yourself into the club of the true blue fairy tale believers by trying to change the subject.
believe me, I am not assuming anything about your intelligence. I can smell sheep from 10 miles away. The first thing you true blue fairy believers always try to do is change the subject.
The JFK administration was one long train wreck from beginning to end, starting with the Bay of Pigs. Then he went to Vienna where Krushchev played him for a fool. JFK didnt save us in the cuban missile crisis, he was the CAUSE of it. He put the missiles in Turkey without a second thought going through his little brain.
Krushchev was the person who saved us. He sacraficed his career, and showed great restraint in the face of JFK's belicose threats. JFK didnt have the slightest clue that the soviets had missiles ready to fire in cuba already. Then JFK went after the russian subs that lost communication with moscow. Those subs all were armed with nuclear weapons. Its a miracle that one of them didnt launch accidentally. But thats JFK, the compulsive risk taker, his pathological personality.
It really is a miracle that the world survived those days when JFK was in a frenzy, pushing for war. After JFK got back from Vienna, next on the agenda-start a major land war in vietnam. He sent 18000 troops, more than Diem had allowed. Then he had to clear Diem out of the way, sealing our fate in vietnam.
JFK loved covert actions, even more so when he and his brother planned them. They came up with all kinds of screwy ideas, running covert activities all over the worls. Of course, every single one failed, resulting in the deaths of the agents, most right out of college.
Kruschev saved us. He didnt panic when JFK made his attacks and belicose threats. He sacraficed his career in the name of peace. Had anyone other than Kruschchev been in there, we would have been nuked as soon as JFK advanced towards the russian navy. Especially when JFK attacked the russian subs, bristling with nuclear missiles. There is a lot we learned about the cuban missile crisis at the end of the cold war. Apparently you dont know anything about it.
why did the soviets put missiles in Cuba? It was because JFK first put missiles right off the soviet union in Turkey, without even a second thought. When the soviets complained, he brushed it off. JFK agreed to remove the missiles from Turkey at the end of the cuban missile crisis, but that detail was hidden from the american people.
JFK's mistake was to allow the situation to deteriorate until we reached the brink of nuclear war. He was completely clueless as to what effect putting missiles in Turkey would have upon the soviets. Then he started in with his bellicose threats and attacks on the russian navy. JFK was a poor manager, and a compulsive risk taker. But the american people bore the brunt of the consequences from his actions. If Krushchev wasnt in power, we would have seen a nuclear exchange.
first of all, I think hypothetical questrions are bullshit, a waste of time, and are the domain of know nothing do nothings. I explained already. A screwup as big as the cuban missile crisis is not the result of 1 mistake. It is the result of a long string of mistakes and poor management in general. JFK didnt pay attention when the soviets were complaining about the missiles in Turkey. He should have realized that there was no upside to putting missiles in Turkey, only downside.
JFK should have maintained professional communication with the soviets. They told him what their problem was. JFK ignored them, and then he tried to invade Cuba, another stupid idea and a big mistake. The normalization of relations with the soviets started with Nixon. He established a relationship based on mutual respect. He didnt go around trying to embarass the soviets like JFK did.
no other president had the kinds of problems JFK had. Other presidents dealt with the same cast of people. Why did JFK have all the problems? JFK made poor picks for his cabinet positions. He didnt pick the best and the brightest. He picked people who he thought wouldnt cause him any problems. Mediocre people like Bundy. JFK was a reactive president. He didnt have any plans, other than starting "limited wars" in cuba, vietnam, etc, but thats another subject.
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JFK's decisions were all compromises. He would have bullshit sessions, listen to everybody, and at the end he would try to plot a course straight down the middle, making a compromise with everybody. He had no overarching ideas, plans, or strategies like other presidents. He admitted when he first went into office. He said all he knew was how to win elections.
Another upsetting realization from the pentaon papers was that people could see that the vietnam war was lost in 1963, after JFK killed Diem. The vietnamese government never recovered, the vietnamese people never accepted the puppets. All the fighting and killing was a complete waste. It was accomplishing nothing. The vietcong were steadily winning after the coup,and the vietnamese people viewed the US as an occupying force.
JFK destroyed south vietnam. If we had never gotten involved, they would have declared neutrality, as they were very close to doing before Diem was murdered. The war was small when Diem was in power. The North used the US occupation to justify their escalation to the soviets, and they got massive military aid as a result. It ended just as Diem had predicted. A massive land war between american and soviet proxies and direct agents, destroying both sides of the country and millions dead.
JFK didn't attack anybody, in fact he was reluctant to board any ships, only was it after pressure from the joint chiefs of staff and his brother did he take any real action; he believed Kruschev knew that the USA and Russia were in a stalemate situation. JFK didn't advance toward their Navy he set up a barricade, which the Navy didn't cross; only a few ships were stopped and only one was boarded; this wasn't a military ship either it was carrying building materials.
You have the 1960's version. We know that JFK blocked the russian ships, threatening with attack. He also forced russian subs to surface that were full of nuclear missiles, and some had lost radio contact with moscow, and they had itchy fingers. . Krushchev kept his cool. If anyone else was in power in USSR, we wouldnt be here. Krushchev sacraficed his career, and JFK rubbed his nose in it. Krushchev saved us from nuclear war.
there have been first hand accounts by several commanders of the US navy ships. A commander of a US destroyer who surfaced some of the russian subs gave a very detailed account of what happened. This was just a few years ago.
As is the case with many criminal cases, time can damage memory among other things, so first hand accounts aren't credible after 35+ years. The United States also discussed the possibility of removing the missiles from Turkey BEFORE the Americans began to surface Russian subs. JFK wasn't stupid, he didn't go as far as many wanted him to (particularly his over-zealous military advisors) I will say we are lucky Krushchev and Kennedy had a mutual respect for one another.
as I said, JFK already let it get too far, and he almost lost his little game of chicken. That shows his weakness, and incompetance. To take it that far, risk so many lives, (and he didnt even realize exactly how much risk he was taking) is totally immoral. Stalin would have fired the missiles as soon as the US Navy made agressive moves towards the russian ships in international waters.
everybody tries to blame it on the military. Eisenhower and LBJ had the same military people to deal with. Eisenhower analyzed vietnam in 1954, and concluded we could not win a war there. But JFK ignored this and sent in the troops, and JFK sealed our fate in vietnam by killing Diem. JFK also agreed with the bay of pigs, and covert activity against Cuba INCREASED after the bay of pigs, meaning he didnt learn his lesson.
"Eisenhower analyzed vietnam in 1954, and concluded we could not win a war there. But JFK ignored this and sent in the troops, and JFK sealed our fate in vietnam by killing Diem."
There you go again - JFK did not kill Diem and you have offered no proof of this allegation.
Did he know a coup would happen? Probably. Did he know Diem would be killed? No. Diem was killed by Vietnamese military, not the US.
There were US troops in Vietnam when Eisenhower was president.
The coup to kill Diem was run by JFK. It was planned and sponsored by JFK's administration, in true covert action style. JFK financed the generals, gave them financial incentive, and guaranteed a safe route outo f the country and refuge if the coup failed. You say JFK was not involved? Tell me, why did JFK switch ambassadors in vietnam in mid 1963? Do you know who was replaced and by whom? I doubt. You know nothing.
I will teach you a lesson. JFK replaced Nolting, who had spent the last 8 years building a strong relationship with Diem, with Henry Cabot Lodge, a right wing republican. Gee, JFK had close ties to right wing republicans like Lodge and McCarthy? What is that all about? Lodge is like the grim reaper. Whenever Lodge appears on the scene, a coup is nearby. That was exactly why Lodge was sent in. He scoured the military, with cash in hand, looking for people to participate in JFK's coup.
Lodge didnt have an easy job finding people willing to do JFK's dirty job. The generals all had a healthy respect for Diem. All the communications between Lodge, JFK, Harkins, Taylor, Bundy, and several top state department officials are all public information now, but you dont care to look. The US Navy had a carrier task force and an amphibious group back up the generals once the coup started.
All the key players of the time have admitted within a few years that the coup was JFK's, including Nolting, Taylor, LBJ and RFK. LBJ's description is here on youtube. Now that all of the transcripts are public, it is freaking obvious, except to people with their heads in the sand like you. Everything is there, the motive, the planning, the transcripts. Thats enough to convict in a US court of law.
I forgot to mention the pentagon papers, a document written by MacNamara. When the public read this document, it was the first time they saw the facts in official documents, that the Diem coup was JFK's. This was the main reason people found this document so upsetting, and why Nixon was so worried when the document was leaked.
when the french were losing, the french and american military officers pressured eisenhower to intervene. Eisenhower and Ridgeway analyzed the situation, and they found the situation in vietnam was very different to Korea. It was an irregular war, unlike Korea. Our technology was to no advantage in vietnam. The terrain and climate would pose serious logistical problems. He estimated at would take a force greater than 500,000 men to have any chance at all.
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Diem and Nhu were furious that "american troops feel they can enter vietnam and operate at will, free to do as they please. Diem set the limit on the number of americans in country at 12000, yet JFK had 18,000 in country by 1963. JFK was planning to withdraw some to comply with what he agreed to, but then in mid 1963 he decided to get rid of Diem, "install non-political people who could prosecute the war at the behest of foreigners."
JFK is fully morally responsible for the deaths of Diem and Nhu, and the destruction of Vietnam that resulted from the destabilization of the southern government, the US escalation that occured as planned, which led to the total destruction of the country, millions of dead, yet still never had a chance of winning the war, because the US was always viewed as an occupying force, just like the french.
"first hand accounts are not credible after 35years"?? So you think the commanders who took part in surfacing the russian subs somehow just got things confused in their heads? They didnt really surface the subs? We cant trust their accounts since it was more than 30 years? Ill tell you, there is a hell of a lot of history written from inteviews of veterans more than 30 years after the incidents took place. I can certainly remember things that happened 30 years ago.
surfacing russian subs is considered an offensive action and could be construed as an attack. I dont think people are aware that the real story of the crisis came out just a few years ago. Everybody here seems to only know the propaganda 1960's version of the story. The russian submarine commanders saw destroyers coming after them, and they thought the war had already began. They were armed with nuclear missiles. Now that is just stupid risk.
The russian ships had nuclear missiles on them. But what JFK did not know was that the missiles in Cuba were all ready to fire. We could have easily been roasted. There is no way JFK would have been so "brave" if he knew the missiles were already in place and launchable. Besides, JFK already crossed the line between brave and stupid.
only after you stop thinking in terms of labels, and anlyze facts on the basis of the facts only, will things start to make sense. But you guys will always remain obedient sheep.
I really doubt that ANY other president would have fallen into that trap the way JFK did. He just wasnt that smart. Too busy chasing tail around the white house swimming pool.
"And if Nixon was in that chair, all I know is that republican idiot would've REALLY turned it into a HOT war. " And if you knew anything about history, you would know that Nixon and Kissinger made the most progress towards peace with the soviets and China, more than any of president up to that time.
"What you fail to point out, genius, is that the TRUMAN DOCTRINE set the wheels in motion for everything from Korea to Afghanistan. " Oh, thats precious.
According to the historian Howard Jones, the fact that the killings failed to make the brothers into martyrs constituted a vivid testimonial to the depth of popular hatred they had aroused.[
thats bullshit. I know a lot of vietnamese. Among the south vietnamese, Diem is considered a hero. GeneralMinh says "we could not allow Diem to live because he was too much respected among the people in the countryside."
Before Lodge got the Aug 24 state dept telegram, he was advising against a coup, stressing the generals still supported Diem, also they supported and were involved in the pagoda raids. Shorty after the pagoda raids, Kheim, the most powerful general, spoke favorably of the raids, and said "over the years I have come to respect and admire the leadership and wisdom of Diem." When Forrestal first met Diem in early 1963, he concluded "Diem was the most powerful figure I had ever encountered."
by the way, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Glad to see you got at least one book I suggested. Maybe you will educate yourself a little better. What you (used to) believe about JFK is all wrong. It is a myth, a fairy tale. JFK was a bumbling fool who made huge mistakes, and damaged our country tremendously. Just ask the families of the men who died in Vietnam. Most died in vain, as JFK had already lost the war by the end of 1963.
During the presidency of Richard Nixon, a U.S. government investigation was initiated into American involvement in the assassinations. Nixon was a political foe of Kennedy, having narrowly lost to him in the 1960 Presidential election. Nixon ordered an investigation under E. Howard Hunt into the murders, convinced that Kennedy must have secretly ordered the killings. Nixons inquiry was unable to find any such secret order.[
Nixon was unable to find a secret order from JFK? What abouit the "Pentagon Papers" then, that outlined JFKs involvement in planning,plotting and carrying out the coup? I know Nixon was well aware of the Pentagon Papers.
He wanted to invade cuba, but if they defended themselves, he changed his mind. He put missiles in Turkey, but when the soviets acted out because of it, he pulled them out. He wavered back and forth for a coup for months, and after it was over, he was very upset because of what usually happens in coups-people get killed. Why was Kennedy always "misled and fooled by people" ?? It was his own fault.
He wanted to confront the soviets in vietnam, but he said he wanted out quickly, yet he planned a coup that destroyed the government and forced the US to expand their commitments. JFK wasnt misled. He didnt have any ideas of his own, no underlying convictions or plans except anticommunism. Because he had no ideas of his own, so he asked other people, and people told him what they wanted. And they contradicted each other, so JFK was gridlocked.
In the end when you look back at JFK's policies, they look like they took the path of a meandering honeybee. Its not suprising everybody has a different opinion of JFK. Because he himself did not know what he wanted to do. Other than win elections, he didnt know anything else. He was like putty in the hands of a good manipulator.
almost everything I posted were the exact communications between JFK and his staff, and the vietanam embassy, verbatim. How can you disagree? Bundy said JFK's prediction that we would be out of vietnam in 1965 was ludicrous, and he tried to have it expunged from the record. Oliver Stone misrepresented the NSAM communication and everybody followed him like sheep. JFK had too many troops in vietnam, more then Diem had permitted. Diem said no more than 12000, but JFK had 18000 in country.
Everybody quotes part of the walter conkrite interview selectively, but they forget to point out that JFK calls for a "personnel change, and he says he is opposed to pulling out. At that very moment of the interview, JFK is deep into planning the coup, as can be verified by the dates of the communications. The only idiots areOliver Stoine, and the rest of you sheep that believe JFK was a peacenik.
JFK sealed our fate in vietnam by his terrible decision to take out Diem, which resulted in destabilization of the government of the south, loss of confidence by the people and the military, and a surge by the vietcong in the delta region, taking advantage of the crumbling government. Lodge's famous quote after he got back to vietnam 1 monthafter the coup- "vietnam is going to hell in a handbasket. The will to fight the war died with Diem."
In fact, I bet you, nor most people here have no knowledge of the facts of JFK's vietnam policies, other than watching an Oliver Stone movie. It is all public record. It is documented in the Pentagon Papers. Plus all of the recorde of JFK's communications and statements-all public record. You and everybody else are a bunch of sheep, looking for fairy tales to believe in. There arent any.
You need to wait for Oliver Stone to tell you how to respond to somebody pointing out the facts. All you can say is that I am an idiot. Wow, thats really hard hitting. Nice response to the facts. Thats an amazing intellect you have there.
I know you pitiful sheep have sets of canned responses that you use once you are able to hang a label on somebody. Gee, is he a consrvative republican? Cant be, he is implying Bush made a mistake by taking us to Iraq. Is he a anti-Kennedy democrat? A pro nixon democrat? An anti bush republican? my god, I cant figure it out. I dont know what to say to this guy. I know, let me probe him with a few general statements about bush to see how he reacts.
Yeah cause you're oh so predictable. Did you vote for Obama? Bet you didn't. Now YOURE evading the question. You talk about labels and still dont say what you are.
"Yeah cause you're oh so predictable. Did you vote for Obama? " I am predictable?? Listen to yourself. You are lost. You cant figure it out. You are struggling to put a label on me. What does Obama have to do with JFK?? You think history is something to be manipulated and twisted in order to gain some kind of credit in the political battles of today. You will never understand the truth. Once a sheep, always a sheep.
"Now YOURE evading the question. You talk about labels and still dont say what you are." My god you are so clueless. I dont what I are??? How stupid can you be? I am enjoying watching you struggle.
JF wanted to invade Cuba. He just chickened out at the last minute. send troops to vietnam. Diem didnt want the troops.Diem said no more than 12000, but JFK sent 18000. JFK wanted to remove Diem via coup, so then he could send as many troops as he wanted, and prosecute the war with no messy restrictions cause by a sovereign government with its own ideas and objectives that did not involve destroying the country by a large scale war.
In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam
This is bullshit. Galbraith is a Kennedy shill. JFK ordered a complete withdraw?? There is no evidence for this, except Galbraith's word. I assume this is before he decided to take out vietnam's president.
After killing Diem, withdraw was impossible, unless JFK was willing to accept "losing Vietnam" . There was no way , at the height of the cold war, that a person like JFK would have simply accepted defeat and pulled out. This would have meant political defeat for sure. The republicans would have roasted him alive.
"There was no way , at the height of the cold war, that a person like JFK would have simply accepted defeat and pulled out. This would have meant political defeat for sure. The republicans would have roasted him alive."
That's why he was going to wait...Until after the 64 election.
somebody has a good imagination. They can predict what Kennedy's policies would be, years after his death. By 1964, south vietnam was in pretty bad shape because of JFK's coup that killed Diem. The vietnamese people did not support the puppet government, and viet cong were controling large regions of the delta. This is why LBJ escalated, because they were losing so badly. JFK would have done the same, if not more. JFK was by far a bigger hawk than LBJ.
you still never explained the rationale for killing Diem and putting in the puppet government, if the US was planning to end involvement in south vietnam. Why did JFK destroy the only stable government in the south, if he was planning to pull out?
You don t think the coup was the idea of the JFK administration? Then I guess in your mind, JFK had totally no control over what was going on in his administration. The idea for the coup came from JFK. It is in every book about vietnam. read the pentagon papers. JFK gave the final approval.
What was the point of this? Might as well have filmed in the dark.
Thejbirdy 1 month ago
How many times do you think RFK could deport and insult the mafia godfathers on television before SOMEONE had to pay for it? Remember the question overheard and recorded when a few of the mafia officers were meeting to decide how to handle the Kennedys? What is the best way to stop a biting dog? You cut off its head! Jack Kennedy was the head of the government while his brother was telling the mafia that they giggled like little girl, BAD move!
jeanborn1 7 months ago
THERES ME THERES ME YOU CAN SEE ME WITH A GUN SHOOTING YOUR BELOVED KENNEDY!
inspectorcritic 7 months ago
@Habfan1909 Vietnam also had a lot to do with it, add in the bay of pigs, JFK ignoring the joint chiefs and pentagon of their operation northwoods, the 1st strike policy with russia, to invade Cuba, Loas or indo china. his actions against big banks, big steel and big oil (including big texas oil billionaires) his support of african nationalism, algerian independence, his favor towards "we the people" over we the elite and super rich. and his desire 2 limit the CIAs power
pat442389 7 months ago
it was a whole different era back then- the south was being threatened to change from the kennedy admin- a whole lot of ignorance ruled the day- we associated any reform or change as a commie plot. even though the democrats in texas were a majority -there was a divide between dems in the north. kennedy needed a southern demt to help in the south- lbj signed up -but the backers of lbj hated kennedy, lbj in alot of ways was night and day compared to jfk. black kids needed the nat. guard -school
larrywheels 8 months ago
At 1:30 look all the way to the right and you see a person in some type of skeleton mask.
cuzco1231 9 months ago
@cuzco1231 LOL, yea it caught me as well. After looking a little closer you realize it was a lady wearing a big pair of those white sixties "cat glasses" with dark lenses. Kinda creepy the way she leans in and out of frame though...yikes - :)
NeilCrouse 8 months ago
@NeilCrouse wow yea i see it now but still creepy
cuzco1231 7 months ago
I may be Irish, But even we respect John F. Kennedy. As many know his family were also Irish.
Haloguydev 10 months ago
That's why he was assassinated
abn63 1 year ago
Are you all retarded jfk wanted to shut down the CIA plus he didn't have Masonic bloodlines...
abn63 1 year ago
I think mossad!!!
JohnRolanga 1 year ago
You don't hae to be a genius to know it was either Cuba striking back after the failed attempt on Castro's life or the soviet government making a move to weaken America
paratrooper10 1 year ago
@paratrooper10 or Americas own government silencing a man who was going to expose the truth.
TPBXDRicky420 1 year ago
@paratrooper10
or the mafia taking out a man who repeatedly wronged them
johnnythunder19 1 year ago
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Here's what the wounding on the right/rear of the head looked like as the limo sped out of Dealey Plaza....
youtube.com/watch?v=WpM1P5TVdDc
Here from two Dealey Plaza films is the moment the wounding on the right rear of the head occurred...
youtube.com/watch?v=igMVdcT3FCo
Here's how the drs/nurses were physically in a position at his head to observe that right/rear wounding
youtube.com/watch?v=0Qc4fhaBoxI
mimusremedium 1 year ago
You're all fecking nuts. The Mafia did it -- one from behind and one in the front of the head. Badabing off Connelly.
FenianandLimey 1 year ago
@FenianandLimey
your a sick boy...
grettoz 1 year ago
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O B A M A Who's really in control . - Is he GOOD or BAD for this world ?
PLEASE watch this video - The Obama Deception. HQ Full length version ..
and then, make your OWN mind up .
peace .
yendytok 1 year ago
I don't see much on this film that's going to tell us anything one way or the other, except maybe the shots of the Book Depository--which might indicate just who was ln those upper floor windows at the time of the assassination. There has always been controversy about that.
mcmchugh99 1 year ago
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Arlen Specter's first award was given to him by B'nai B'rith in 1966, when he received the Jewish Freemasons' Youth Services Award. He is a devoted zionist jew who comes from a family of zealous zionists. When Specter ran for president in 1996 he said the first thing he would do if elected would be to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and recognize the occupied city as the capital of Israel.
rafnagud009 1 year ago
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Wiki: Arlen Specter worked for the Warren Commission investigating the assassination of JFK, he authored the controversial "single bullet theory," which suggested the non-fatal wounds to Kennedy and wounds to Texas Governor John Connally were caused by the same bullet. This was a crucial assertion since if the two had been wounded by separate bullets, that would have demonstrated the presence of a second assassin and therefore a conspiracy.
rafnagud009 1 year ago
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Johnson's arrival in the Oval Office represented a sea change in American Middle Eastern policy, establishing the Israel-First direction of every American Chief Executive from LBJ onward, to the detriment of the independence of the American government from the undue influence of the Israeli lobby, the maintenance of regional peace and stability in the most dangerous area of the globe, and any vestiges of hope for positive American political relationships with the Islamic world.
rafnagud009 1 year ago
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The Israeli government was the driving force behind the death of John F. Kennedy. The removal of JFK brought an end to American demands for IAEA inspections of the Israeli nuclear program, and the ascension to the White House of Lyndon Johnson, whose long ties to Meyer Lansky and Carlos Marcello had assisted the barefoot boy of the Texas Hill Country in his arrival at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
rafnagud009 1 year ago
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In 1963, the go-between for the Israeli lobby and Israeli intelligence with the American so-called underworld was (international) crime lord Meyer Lansky, the real power player in American organized crime in the 1950s and 1960s, the superior of Giancana, Roselli, Marcello, Mickey Cohen... and other participants in the JFK murder. Lansky's role as a zealous zionist involved links between his criminal empire, his Miami-based banks, and the Banque de Credit International (BCI).
rafnagud009 1 year ago
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Conflict between the 35th President and Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, principally over Israel's failure to submit its Dimona operation to International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspection, and secondarily to a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians was one if the most under-reported stories that came out of "Camelot". Dimona, in 1963, was a taboo subject. In 2010, the (illegal Israeli) nuclear topic remains relevant.
rafnagud009 1 year ago
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In 2004, Israeli nuclear whistleblower Mordecai Vanunu (a jewish convert to Christianity) was released by authorities after 18 years imprisonment (11 in solitary confinement) for a treason conviction related to the disclosure of state secrets re: the Israelis' (illegal) nuclear program. He credited the Mossad with the assassination of President Kennedy, who insisted that the zionist state come clean about its (illegal) nuclear program at the infamous Dimona plant in the Negev.
rafnagud009 1 year ago
This is just awful quality. It's basically useless. You know, I had heard about this film. It showed up very late in the conspiracy game. People just dismissed it. Now I know why.
FrlghtWolf 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf Yes. It was as clear as mud.
RandyAKing 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf Well in 1963 this was the technology of home movies. There is no clear professional film of the assassination, since the motorcade camera car which was usually in front of the Presidents's car to facilitate photographing of the JFK was inexplicably placed (by the SS) several cars behind JFK and could only photograph the friendly crowd. So there is no clear motion picture film with sound of the assassination. Wonder why that happened?
TrueNovice 1 year ago
@TrueNovice Oh stop it with the "conspiracy" thing. My god, you ever use critical thinking in your lives? I swear, if you fell asleep with a cigarette in your hand and then your house burned down, you would find a way to blame the government. Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend of this government but the whole JFK thing just got WAY out of hand. Lee Harvey Oswald did it. He got lucky. There is no "magic bullet". There are no "shadowy" figures on the grassy knoll. There is no Easter bunny-rabbit.
FrlghtWolf 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf "Critical thinking" my ass. You are just a jerk who watches gov't propaganda on cable TV and believes it.
TrueNovice 1 year ago
@TrueNovice I don't even own a TV. I read. I pause and reflect logically before I open my mouth or run to conclusions. I'm not emotional about it. The difference between my position and yours is that I don't run out and adopt other people's position. After 47 years of this stuff, I'm rather confident that there is no "conspiracy". Now, of course, you'll accuse me of being a CIA agent? Or, perhaps, a member of the Illumenatti?
FrlghtWolf 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf No I still think you are just a jerk. I can't imagine the CIA hiring you, or even Oswald who was probably far more intelligent than you. But anyway, enlighten us with your "critical thinking skills" as to why they put the camera car way behind the President where they were unable to even see him, let alone film him?
TrueNovice 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf Explain to me how you can shoot at someone from behind and have their head fly in the opposite direction that the bullet was traveling.
Also shooting at someone through a tree at a moving target 88 yards away and getting 3 shots off in 6 seconds with 1 being a headshot is impossible. Why did Lee Harvey Oswald not shoot at the president coming up Houston. He would have had a wide open shot, and if he missed, the car would just get closer for his second shot.
xenomann442 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf Yeah thats it..you got it.And he also ran down and shot him from the front,dont forget that..quite amazing..
fighter79 1 year ago
@FrlghtWolf my friend … whether you would like to admit or not (and believe me i didn't either) … this country and its government has never been the same since Nov 22nd, 1963. War after War, scandal after scandal, and cover up after cover up … enough already! its not about who shot this man anymore … its about how many more lies do "We The People" have to endure … and how many more innocent lives are destroyed in the process.
joeylodes 1 year ago 20
@joeylodes - My friend, I am NO friend of this government.
I'm angry too. However, that doesn't mean I toss out logic in
lieu of soul-satisfying paranoia. It makes no sense to me that
the same people who can't deliver my mail on time are
supposed to be behind this amazing series of long lasting
and complex conspiracies. Mind you, I believe my
government is dishonest and incompetent. That's a far cry
from what you suggest. You cannot throw out critical
thinking just because you're angry!
FrlghtWolf 1 year ago
@joeylodes you are listening to too much Coast to Coast and Alex Jones. There's always a new conspiracy with the conspiracy nuts- from Princess Diana to 911. Move on basement dwellers.
hownos 11 months ago
@joeylodes Perfectly said. I think its more humanity as a whole though, thats changed for the worse, rather then one single country.
HavenJaede 9 months ago 4
hhmmmmmm y r there no close ups hhhmmmmmm? y so many dark shadowy parts? and wheres the grass verge cmon its so phoney u think people are so dumb dont u but its only u!
teddy292929 1 year ago
Come on... Tht doesn't look like anything in the real thing like COME ON!!!!!!!!!
madarock1234 2 years ago
jiwasz, you are silly as you say. More than silly.
Ignorant people like to believe only what their rabbi (master) or pastor or the television tells them. Unless they hear it from their television set then, it's just not true.
That's why they're called brainwashed zombie sheeple.
Without an independently functioning brain you're just a tool.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
So.
lizardfirefighter110 2 years ago
ExoticGawdess is a long-winded nut. Shut the hell up and crawl back under your rock already.
FuhQTube 2 years ago
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Freemasons control AP news source which gives all news outlets the words they must parrot for their masonic brethren. They hide Obomba's idiocy, hide his masonic zionist gang unity, hide that he's a puppet of Kissinger & Zionist Israelis'e New World Order that is to be had by committing genocide around the world & by robbing the middle classes of the world through fake wars & through the Trojan Horse which is the central bank of industrialized nations.
Rockefeller & Kissinger control AP.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
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The Federal Reserve Bank is complicit in killing JFK to preserve their illegal practices and warprofiteering. They participated in the 9/11 attacks and had foreknowlege as many have proven by pointing out masonic symbols on the Federal Reserve Bank note that are sinister admissions of foreknowledge of the coming Freemasons attack on the WTC on 9/11. They put Obomba in office and he robbed the US Treasury to repay them and to repay ABC et al for giving him seemingly unlimited mass media coverage.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
Comment removed
jiwasz 2 years ago
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Freemasons worship the Egyptian sun god Ra and the Eye of Horus which is a symbol on the Federal Reserve Bank note. Lincoln and JFK were both killed for issuing bank notes that would put the illegal bankers out of business. The masonic bankers contrived the Revolitionary and Civil War for their own profit. The Civil War was about robbing Southern banks. Lincoln was at war with masonic bankers, not with the south. The south was fighting the bankers who were robbing & oppressing them through usury
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
And here I thought Lincoln was killed by a Southern simpathizer who learned that he was planning to grant certain African Americans the right to vote and assassinated him before he could pass the amendment. Silly me.
jiwasz 2 years ago
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The masons used their black magic symbol throughout America. Masonic obelisks are in every city of America. Masons contrive "race" riots. They started the riots in Watts and Birmingham England as well as the riots in Watts and Birmingham USA. Think that's a coincidence? Think again.
The obelisk represents sun worship. Masons Believe they are the Jews who fought Pharoahs of Egypt, let by Imhotep aka Moses to begin a New World Order by usurping ALL nations and controlling ALL money.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
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Make that 322. 3+2+2= 7. The number 322 is the number under their symbol of a Skull & Bones. The Freemason tricked settlers into coming to America for "land and opportunity" failing to tell them they'd have to fight for their lives. War was a business, designed for Freemasons' profit. They took back the boats that brought immigrants to America, immigrants who were deliberately starved out of Ireland & England by their own government. Frenchmen came after they were robbed & threatened with death.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
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None of the crap Hollywood films about JFK or Nixon are worth a damn. Oliver Silverstein may be related to 9/11 Larry Silverstein so you can't trust Olie for truth about JFK, Nixon, Vietnam or 9/11. These zionist stick together, especially ones connected through Yale University where the Skull & Bones frat house was founded with money John Kerry's family provided from their activities in the opium trade. Skull & Bonesmen love the number 322 because 3+3+2=7 which means killing is profit for them.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
That is, KISSINGER and HOOVER advised Nixon to spy.
Hoover was spying on everyone and using the information to help zionist Freemason Bilderberg sociopath Kissinger run the American government through bribes and intimidation, even terror.
Nixon was afraid that Hoover would kill him if Nixon ousted Hoover. Hoover did in fact kill JFK or had Kissinger kill JFK because there's no way in hell that JFK would be Hoover or Nixon's zionist puppet.
That said, Obomba is no JFK. He's a zionist puppet.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
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Nixon and Hoover advised Nixon to spy. Hoover was the notorious spy who spied on all members of congress in order to railroad them if they exposed the secret society's New World Order plans or how zionist Freemason bankers used the Federal Reserve Bank as their Trojan Horse to control American policy and to rob Americans from the inside. Nixon had to spy to outmaneuver Hoover who spied on the government from the inside. Nixon wanted Hoover ousted so Hoover and Kissinger set-up Nixon. It's taped.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
Kissinger and Hoover had played the war game for years. They took down Nixon after stealing America's military to fight a war in Gaza for Zionist Israelis. Hoover knew JFK had printed currency that would put the Federal Reserve Bank cabal out of business. Freemasons were the secret society that JFK asked us to help him fight. They robbed America through illegal wars, and continue to do so. They supply weapons to communists then demand Americans fight these "communists." It's win-win for masons.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
JFK's enemies were not Diem nor Castro, nor Russia. Zionist Freemasons such as Kissinger masterminded the lies that started and escalated the Vietnam slaughterfest. Kissinger helped sell arms to Russia to pass to the government created "communist" ghost enemy. Kissinger and his zionist gang played both sides of the war, to profit from weapons sales. Zionists are sociopathic industrialists and bankers. Their Trojan Horse is the illegal Federal Reserve Bank from which they rob the US Treasury.
ExoticGawdess 2 years ago
Thanks for posting this. I hadn't yet seen a decent verson of this film. It offers an interesting view of the immediate aftermath. (I cringe to think of how the "press bus" handled the hairpin turn at Elm & Houston!)
ShutterBun2 2 years ago
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Go to the video titled, Texas School Book Depository Employees - Part 3
At the 2:56 minute mark, you will see & hear James Jarman, Jr... He is the man who assassinated President Kennedy.
The two previous guys shown, Norman & Williams were co-conspirators. Along with Charles Douglas Givens (Not shown)...
Do an "MSN" search with the key words, James Jarman, Jr., Assassin, for the entire story... The 8th site listed, "The John F" is the most comprehensive...
freedomhill68 2 years ago
El mejor presidente de USA .the best president of USA ...
CapitanFiro 2 years ago
I love how people think a president can be 'fully responsible' for anything.
bobgarbage 2 years ago
make a dvd opr a blue ray disc ofilled with documentraies with contain theese footadges so we can see tem in aclear viuw
Dboombox 2 years ago
All these posts and you still don't answer my question about what you think JFK should have done during the Cuban missile crisis....Nor do you offer proof that JFK had Diem killed.
Not a surprise since you have no answer...Right?
kac56 2 years ago
kac56, just read "The Kennedy Men" by Lawrence Leamer, the official Kennedy biographer. He didn't have Diem killed, but he knew and did nothing to stop. It was saying yes without speaking
JHalpert84 2 years ago
JHalpert84-
I have the book. I'll look for any references to the Diem coup.
I have little doubt that JFK likely knew about the coup, but I still maintain he did not know the generals would kill him. I believe the plan was to exile him but things got out of hand.
kac56 2 years ago
You're absolutely correct. I just thought about that a little while ago. He found out they shot him, but did nothing for retribution against the murderers. Of course, he didn't have much time to do so either...
JHalpert84 2 years ago
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PROOF of the conspiracy assassination.
jfkresearch(.)com/morningstar/ morningstar3(.)htm
JFK had BROWN HAIR and WIDE EVEN-CUT SIDEBURNS throughout his presidency. See JFKs hair on videos ?v=xE0iPY7XGBo on his inauguration and ?v=Mt1Dm0Od0lA (on this limo death ride film at1:23).
JD Tippit (the JFK cop look-a-like) had BLACK HAIR and NARROW SLANT UPPER-CUT SIDEBURNS. See Tippits BLACK HAIR and NARROW SLANT UPPER-CUT SIDEBURNS on the morgue table that the govt labeled 'JFK Autopsy'.
usefulstuf 2 years ago
I dont give a damn about a point system. I dont argue about history for credit. You sound like a fuckin idiot. To me, to everyone else. Hows that for a label?
Codackussell 2 years ago
a point system??? You are drunk, right?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The Saigon government was headed by President Ngo Dinh Diem, an autocratic, nepotistic ruler who valued power more than either his relations with the Vietnamese people or progress in fighting the communists.
kac56 2 years ago
Mark Moyer "Trumph Forsaken The Vietnam war 1954-1965." " Numerous bits of conventional wisdom have accreted around the vietnam war... That Diem was an unpopular and repressive reactionary". Mark Moyar, a young, bold and iconoclast historian takes a sledge hammer to these hoary beliefs." By the way, this is required reading at the US Naval Academy. Have you ever seen this book? I doubt it.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Diem was doing well holding down the viet cong. Everything wnt to shit after JFK killed Diem and destabilized the government. South vietnam never recovered. It was in a downward spiral ever since Diem was killed.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
for anybody to say that JFK did not give ultimate approval of the coup would have to say JFK had no control over his government, his cabinet, the JCS. To say he was always misled by the military is no excuse either. If he was misled, then he was misled over and over and over again. Why wasnt Eisenhower misled? Why wasnt LBJ and Nixon misled? I guess only JFK was so easily misled.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
did you read the part where Lodge and JFK are discussing setting up a vietnamese military to fight the viet cong, with no political base"? Fighting the war at the behest of foreigners."?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The responsibility for the assassinations was generally put on the shoulders of Minh. Conein asserted that "I have it on very good authority of very many people, that Big Minh gave the order,"[22] as did William Colby, the director of the CIA's Far Eastern division. Don was equally emphatic, saying "I can state without equivocation that this was done by General Duong Van Minh and by him alone."[
kac56 2 years ago
Minh was recruited by the CiA, along with the other generals, as part of the policy set by JFK and the joint chiefs- to carry out a coup. If you know anything about covert operations and the CIA, you will recognize the pattern. I guess you dont know. JFK just loved to run covert operations, all over the world.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
After you finish reading "A Death in November", then you can go on to read Mark Moyers book. Now I am digging out my copy of the Pentagon Papers. More to come....for the fairy tale believers.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The coup plotters were also backed up by a US carrier task force, and an amphibious landing group. After the murders, of course nobody wanted to take responsibility. But the ultimate responsibility rests with JFK. Thats the nature of the job. The buck stops here, as Truman said. The end result of foreign policies initiated and planned by JFK were the responsibility of JFK.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
According to General Maxwell Taylor, Kennedy leaped to his feet and rushed from the room with a look of shock and dismay on his face which I had never seen before.[17] Kennedy had planned that Diem would be safely exiled and Arthur Schlesinger recalled that the U.S. president was somber and shaken
kac56 2 years ago
JFK was in shock because he felt the full weight of responsibility for the death of Diem and Nhu. "Years earlier JFK met Diem and he was impressed By Diem's single minded dedication to the cause of indenpendence of his country. Now the first catholic president of Vietnam was dead, assasinated as a direct action of the first catholic president of the US."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
glad to see you got the book. Make sure you read chapter 8, "Washington Decides for a coup." And read the part where it talks about all the cabinet members saying they found JFK's statement about ending the war in 1965 to be absolutely ludicrous. Just like "Mission Accomplished."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
as malcolm X said when JFK was assasinated-"the chickens came home to roost." JFK carried out covert ops all over the world. All poorly planned and none were successful. Live by thesword, die by the sword. Another book I suggest is legacy of ashes, the history of the cia. It discusses covert ops run by all presidents, including JFK. We are still feeling the bad consequences today from all of these failed operations.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
One thing is obvious, after readding the accounts of JFK's meetings and the transcripts of his communications. JFK never had an overarching plan or idea about anything. He would bring his "best and brightest " (of which they were neither) boys together, and he would ask each one what their opinion was. At the end, JFK would decide what the policy would be based on what was said. Because he operated this way, his policies would always vacillate.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Oh yeah and Bush's "gut instinct" isn't ludicrous to you?
Codackussell 2 years ago
"Oh yeah and Bush's "gut instinct" isn't ludicrous to you?" You are just like all the other fairy tale believers here, trying to change the subject, totally missing the point. I compared JFK predicting we will be out of vietnam by 1965, during a time when he was planning a coup, which he had no way of knowing the outcome (it was very bad), to George Bush on the aircraft carrier saying mission accomplished. It is a very apt comparison.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Another one of these sheep said JFK was not responsible for the war in vietnam because at one time he said "we need to get out of vietnam." I pointed out that in 2005, Bush said "we need to get out of Iraq." So by this logic, Bush is not responsible for the war in Iraq. I think I am saying something you sheep have never heard before, and you have no canned responses to put forth, so you are completely speechless.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
why dont you put the labels down and analyze the facts for what they are. You will see that all of your previous conclusions will seem silly. Gosh darn that military and CIA, always misleading our hero JFK. They always seem to get him in trouble, bay of pigs, cuban missile crisis, vietnam war. Even though JFK was commander in chief, and he hired all of the cabinet heads, including the head of the CIA, somehow once they took up their posts, they suddenly all started plotting against JFK.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Listen you jack ass. Dont assume anything about my intelligence. JFK was a movie and any person who gets their facts from a movie is an idiot- something I am not. I made an assumption on your intelligence because rather than go on a Bush video and talk shit about him, or a Calvin Coolidge or Herbert Hoover video, ur here... THEY sucked. JFK didnt get enough years in the White House to prove anything. But in his small window he saved us from Nuclear Annihilation during the Crisis of 62.
Codackussell 2 years ago
oh believe me, I am not assuming anything about your intelligence. The first sentence and you already put yourself into the club of the true blue fairy tale believers by trying to change the subject.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
believe me, I am not assuming anything about your intelligence. I can smell sheep from 10 miles away. The first thing you true blue fairy believers always try to do is change the subject.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The JFK administration was one long train wreck from beginning to end, starting with the Bay of Pigs. Then he went to Vienna where Krushchev played him for a fool. JFK didnt save us in the cuban missile crisis, he was the CAUSE of it. He put the missiles in Turkey without a second thought going through his little brain.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Krushchev was the person who saved us. He sacraficed his career, and showed great restraint in the face of JFK's belicose threats. JFK didnt have the slightest clue that the soviets had missiles ready to fire in cuba already. Then JFK went after the russian subs that lost communication with moscow. Those subs all were armed with nuclear weapons. Its a miracle that one of them didnt launch accidentally. But thats JFK, the compulsive risk taker, his pathological personality.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
It really is a miracle that the world survived those days when JFK was in a frenzy, pushing for war. After JFK got back from Vienna, next on the agenda-start a major land war in vietnam. He sent 18000 troops, more than Diem had allowed. Then he had to clear Diem out of the way, sealing our fate in vietnam.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK loved covert actions, even more so when he and his brother planned them. They came up with all kinds of screwy ideas, running covert activities all over the worls. Of course, every single one failed, resulting in the deaths of the agents, most right out of college.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"But in his small window he saved us from Nuclear Annihilation during the Crisis of 62."
Correct again...
kac56 2 years ago
Kruschev saved us. He didnt panic when JFK made his attacks and belicose threats. He sacraficed his career in the name of peace. Had anyone other than Kruschchev been in there, we would have been nuked as soon as JFK advanced towards the russian navy. Especially when JFK attacked the russian subs, bristling with nuclear missiles. There is a lot we learned about the cuban missile crisis at the end of the cold war. Apparently you dont know anything about it.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"Apparently you dont know anything about it."
Since you seem to know everything - what do YOU think JFK should have done after the Soviets placed nuclear weapons 90 miles off our coast?
Should he have just let it go, or nuke and invade Cuba which would have started WW3?
Or, do as he did - which was a combination of diplomacy AND the threat of military action to make them remove the missiles.
kac56 2 years ago
why did the soviets put missiles in Cuba? It was because JFK first put missiles right off the soviet union in Turkey, without even a second thought. When the soviets complained, he brushed it off. JFK agreed to remove the missiles from Turkey at the end of the cuban missile crisis, but that detail was hidden from the american people.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK's mistake was to allow the situation to deteriorate until we reached the brink of nuclear war. He was completely clueless as to what effect putting missiles in Turkey would have upon the soviets. Then he started in with his bellicose threats and attacks on the russian navy. JFK was a poor manager, and a compulsive risk taker. But the american people bore the brunt of the consequences from his actions. If Krushchev wasnt in power, we would have seen a nuclear exchange.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
You never answered my question - what do you think JFK should have done after the missiles were placed in Cuba?
kac56 2 years ago
first of all, I think hypothetical questrions are bullshit, a waste of time, and are the domain of know nothing do nothings. I explained already. A screwup as big as the cuban missile crisis is not the result of 1 mistake. It is the result of a long string of mistakes and poor management in general. JFK didnt pay attention when the soviets were complaining about the missiles in Turkey. He should have realized that there was no upside to putting missiles in Turkey, only downside.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK should have maintained professional communication with the soviets. They told him what their problem was. JFK ignored them, and then he tried to invade Cuba, another stupid idea and a big mistake. The normalization of relations with the soviets started with Nixon. He established a relationship based on mutual respect. He didnt go around trying to embarass the soviets like JFK did.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
no other president had the kinds of problems JFK had. Other presidents dealt with the same cast of people. Why did JFK have all the problems? JFK made poor picks for his cabinet positions. He didnt pick the best and the brightest. He picked people who he thought wouldnt cause him any problems. Mediocre people like Bundy. JFK was a reactive president. He didnt have any plans, other than starting "limited wars" in cuba, vietnam, etc, but thats another subject.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
JFK's decisions were all compromises. He would have bullshit sessions, listen to everybody, and at the end he would try to plot a course straight down the middle, making a compromise with everybody. He had no overarching ideas, plans, or strategies like other presidents. He admitted when he first went into office. He said all he knew was how to win elections.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Another upsetting realization from the pentaon papers was that people could see that the vietnam war was lost in 1963, after JFK killed Diem. The vietnamese government never recovered, the vietnamese people never accepted the puppets. All the fighting and killing was a complete waste. It was accomplishing nothing. The vietcong were steadily winning after the coup,and the vietnamese people viewed the US as an occupying force.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK destroyed south vietnam. If we had never gotten involved, they would have declared neutrality, as they were very close to doing before Diem was murdered. The war was small when Diem was in power. The North used the US occupation to justify their escalation to the soviets, and they got massive military aid as a result. It ended just as Diem had predicted. A massive land war between american and soviet proxies and direct agents, destroying both sides of the country and millions dead.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK didn't attack anybody, in fact he was reluctant to board any ships, only was it after pressure from the joint chiefs of staff and his brother did he take any real action; he believed Kruschev knew that the USA and Russia were in a stalemate situation. JFK didn't advance toward their Navy he set up a barricade, which the Navy didn't cross; only a few ships were stopped and only one was boarded; this wasn't a military ship either it was carrying building materials.
cpearson123 2 years ago
You are correct of course - everyone seems to know this except one moron who thinks he knows everything, but actually knows nothing.
kac56 2 years ago
You have the 1960's version. We know that JFK blocked the russian ships, threatening with attack. He also forced russian subs to surface that were full of nuclear missiles, and some had lost radio contact with moscow, and they had itchy fingers. . Krushchev kept his cool. If anyone else was in power in USSR, we wouldnt be here. Krushchev sacraficed his career, and JFK rubbed his nose in it. Krushchev saved us from nuclear war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Unfortunately it happened in the 60s. I'm more than willing to accept a first hand account.
cpearson123 2 years ago
there have been first hand accounts by several commanders of the US navy ships. A commander of a US destroyer who surfaced some of the russian subs gave a very detailed account of what happened. This was just a few years ago.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
As is the case with many criminal cases, time can damage memory among other things, so first hand accounts aren't credible after 35+ years. The United States also discussed the possibility of removing the missiles from Turkey BEFORE the Americans began to surface Russian subs. JFK wasn't stupid, he didn't go as far as many wanted him to (particularly his over-zealous military advisors) I will say we are lucky Krushchev and Kennedy had a mutual respect for one another.
cpearson123 2 years ago
as I said, JFK already let it get too far, and he almost lost his little game of chicken. That shows his weakness, and incompetance. To take it that far, risk so many lives, (and he didnt even realize exactly how much risk he was taking) is totally immoral. Stalin would have fired the missiles as soon as the US Navy made agressive moves towards the russian ships in international waters.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
everybody tries to blame it on the military. Eisenhower and LBJ had the same military people to deal with. Eisenhower analyzed vietnam in 1954, and concluded we could not win a war there. But JFK ignored this and sent in the troops, and JFK sealed our fate in vietnam by killing Diem. JFK also agreed with the bay of pigs, and covert activity against Cuba INCREASED after the bay of pigs, meaning he didnt learn his lesson.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"Eisenhower analyzed vietnam in 1954, and concluded we could not win a war there. But JFK ignored this and sent in the troops, and JFK sealed our fate in vietnam by killing Diem."
There you go again - JFK did not kill Diem and you have offered no proof of this allegation.
Did he know a coup would happen? Probably. Did he know Diem would be killed? No. Diem was killed by Vietnamese military, not the US.
There were US troops in Vietnam when Eisenhower was president.
kac56 2 years ago
The coup to kill Diem was run by JFK. It was planned and sponsored by JFK's administration, in true covert action style. JFK financed the generals, gave them financial incentive, and guaranteed a safe route outo f the country and refuge if the coup failed. You say JFK was not involved? Tell me, why did JFK switch ambassadors in vietnam in mid 1963? Do you know who was replaced and by whom? I doubt. You know nothing.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I will teach you a lesson. JFK replaced Nolting, who had spent the last 8 years building a strong relationship with Diem, with Henry Cabot Lodge, a right wing republican. Gee, JFK had close ties to right wing republicans like Lodge and McCarthy? What is that all about? Lodge is like the grim reaper. Whenever Lodge appears on the scene, a coup is nearby. That was exactly why Lodge was sent in. He scoured the military, with cash in hand, looking for people to participate in JFK's coup.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Lodge didnt have an easy job finding people willing to do JFK's dirty job. The generals all had a healthy respect for Diem. All the communications between Lodge, JFK, Harkins, Taylor, Bundy, and several top state department officials are all public information now, but you dont care to look. The US Navy had a carrier task force and an amphibious group back up the generals once the coup started.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
All the key players of the time have admitted within a few years that the coup was JFK's, including Nolting, Taylor, LBJ and RFK. LBJ's description is here on youtube. Now that all of the transcripts are public, it is freaking obvious, except to people with their heads in the sand like you. Everything is there, the motive, the planning, the transcripts. Thats enough to convict in a US court of law.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I forgot to mention the pentagon papers, a document written by MacNamara. When the public read this document, it was the first time they saw the facts in official documents, that the Diem coup was JFK's. This was the main reason people found this document so upsetting, and why Nixon was so worried when the document was leaked.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
when the french were losing, the french and american military officers pressured eisenhower to intervene. Eisenhower and Ridgeway analyzed the situation, and they found the situation in vietnam was very different to Korea. It was an irregular war, unlike Korea. Our technology was to no advantage in vietnam. The terrain and climate would pose serious logistical problems. He estimated at would take a force greater than 500,000 men to have any chance at all.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Diem and Nhu were furious that "american troops feel they can enter vietnam and operate at will, free to do as they please. Diem set the limit on the number of americans in country at 12000, yet JFK had 18,000 in country by 1963. JFK was planning to withdraw some to comply with what he agreed to, but then in mid 1963 he decided to get rid of Diem, "install non-political people who could prosecute the war at the behest of foreigners."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK is fully morally responsible for the deaths of Diem and Nhu, and the destruction of Vietnam that resulted from the destabilization of the southern government, the US escalation that occured as planned, which led to the total destruction of the country, millions of dead, yet still never had a chance of winning the war, because the US was always viewed as an occupying force, just like the french.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Get a life people
kkey82005 2 years ago
"first hand accounts are not credible after 35years"?? So you think the commanders who took part in surfacing the russian subs somehow just got things confused in their heads? They didnt really surface the subs? We cant trust their accounts since it was more than 30 years? Ill tell you, there is a hell of a lot of history written from inteviews of veterans more than 30 years after the incidents took place. I can certainly remember things that happened 30 years ago.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
surfacing russian subs is considered an offensive action and could be construed as an attack. I dont think people are aware that the real story of the crisis came out just a few years ago. Everybody here seems to only know the propaganda 1960's version of the story. The russian submarine commanders saw destroyers coming after them, and they thought the war had already began. They were armed with nuclear missiles. Now that is just stupid risk.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The russian ships had nuclear missiles on them. But what JFK did not know was that the missiles in Cuba were all ready to fire. We could have easily been roasted. There is no way JFK would have been so "brave" if he knew the missiles were already in place and launchable. Besides, JFK already crossed the line between brave and stupid.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
So Ill be a sheep, and you can be a pig or a dog...
Codackussell 2 years ago
only after you stop thinking in terms of labels, and anlyze facts on the basis of the facts only, will things start to make sense. But you guys will always remain obedient sheep.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
And if Nixon was in that chair, all I know is that republican idiot would've REALLY turned it into a HOT war.
Codackussell 2 years ago
I really doubt that ANY other president would have fallen into that trap the way JFK did. He just wasnt that smart. Too busy chasing tail around the white house swimming pool.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"And if Nixon was in that chair, all I know is that republican idiot would've REALLY turned it into a HOT war. " And if you knew anything about history, you would know that Nixon and Kissinger made the most progress towards peace with the soviets and China, more than any of president up to that time.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
What you fail to point out, genius, is that the TRUMAN DOCTRINE set the wheels in motion for everything from Korea to Afghanistan.
Codackussell 2 years ago
"What you fail to point out, genius, is that the TRUMAN DOCTRINE set the wheels in motion for everything from Korea to Afghanistan. " Oh, thats precious.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
According to the historian Howard Jones, the fact that the killings failed to make the brothers into martyrs constituted a vivid testimonial to the depth of popular hatred they had aroused.[
kac56 2 years ago
thats bullshit. I know a lot of vietnamese. Among the south vietnamese, Diem is considered a hero. GeneralMinh says "we could not allow Diem to live because he was too much respected among the people in the countryside."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
martyrs? what about the memorial in Saigon for Diem, where a wake is held every year?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Before Lodge got the Aug 24 state dept telegram, he was advising against a coup, stressing the generals still supported Diem, also they supported and were involved in the pagoda raids. Shorty after the pagoda raids, Kheim, the most powerful general, spoke favorably of the raids, and said "over the years I have come to respect and admire the leadership and wisdom of Diem." When Forrestal first met Diem in early 1963, he concluded "Diem was the most powerful figure I had ever encountered."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
by the way, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Glad to see you got at least one book I suggested. Maybe you will educate yourself a little better. What you (used to) believe about JFK is all wrong. It is a myth, a fairy tale. JFK was a bumbling fool who made huge mistakes, and damaged our country tremendously. Just ask the families of the men who died in Vietnam. Most died in vain, as JFK had already lost the war by the end of 1963.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
During the presidency of Richard Nixon, a U.S. government investigation was initiated into American involvement in the assassinations. Nixon was a political foe of Kennedy, having narrowly lost to him in the 1960 Presidential election. Nixon ordered an investigation under E. Howard Hunt into the murders, convinced that Kennedy must have secretly ordered the killings. Nixons inquiry was unable to find any such secret order.[
kac56 2 years ago
Nixon was unable to find a secret order from JFK? What abouit the "Pentagon Papers" then, that outlined JFKs involvement in planning,plotting and carrying out the coup? I know Nixon was well aware of the Pentagon Papers.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
He wanted to invade cuba, but if they defended themselves, he changed his mind. He put missiles in Turkey, but when the soviets acted out because of it, he pulled them out. He wavered back and forth for a coup for months, and after it was over, he was very upset because of what usually happens in coups-people get killed. Why was Kennedy always "misled and fooled by people" ?? It was his own fault.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
He wanted to confront the soviets in vietnam, but he said he wanted out quickly, yet he planned a coup that destroyed the government and forced the US to expand their commitments. JFK wasnt misled. He didnt have any ideas of his own, no underlying convictions or plans except anticommunism. Because he had no ideas of his own, so he asked other people, and people told him what they wanted. And they contradicted each other, so JFK was gridlocked.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
In the end when you look back at JFK's policies, they look like they took the path of a meandering honeybee. Its not suprising everybody has a different opinion of JFK. Because he himself did not know what he wanted to do. Other than win elections, he didnt know anything else. He was like putty in the hands of a good manipulator.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
You realize no one else has responded to your posts in the last 4 days... Probably cause everyone thinks your an idiot.
Codackussell 2 years ago
almost everything I posted were the exact communications between JFK and his staff, and the vietanam embassy, verbatim. How can you disagree? Bundy said JFK's prediction that we would be out of vietnam in 1965 was ludicrous, and he tried to have it expunged from the record. Oliver Stone misrepresented the NSAM communication and everybody followed him like sheep. JFK had too many troops in vietnam, more then Diem had permitted. Diem said no more than 12000, but JFK had 18000 in country.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Everybody quotes part of the walter conkrite interview selectively, but they forget to point out that JFK calls for a "personnel change, and he says he is opposed to pulling out. At that very moment of the interview, JFK is deep into planning the coup, as can be verified by the dates of the communications. The only idiots areOliver Stoine, and the rest of you sheep that believe JFK was a peacenik.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK sealed our fate in vietnam by his terrible decision to take out Diem, which resulted in destabilization of the government of the south, loss of confidence by the people and the military, and a surge by the vietcong in the delta region, taking advantage of the crumbling government. Lodge's famous quote after he got back to vietnam 1 monthafter the coup- "vietnam is going to hell in a handbasket. The will to fight the war died with Diem."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
In fact, I bet you, nor most people here have no knowledge of the facts of JFK's vietnam policies, other than watching an Oliver Stone movie. It is all public record. It is documented in the Pentagon Papers. Plus all of the recorde of JFK's communications and statements-all public record. You and everybody else are a bunch of sheep, looking for fairy tales to believe in. There arent any.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
You need to wait for Oliver Stone to tell you how to respond to somebody pointing out the facts. All you can say is that I am an idiot. Wow, thats really hard hitting. Nice response to the facts. Thats an amazing intellect you have there.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I know you pitiful sheep have sets of canned responses that you use once you are able to hang a label on somebody. Gee, is he a consrvative republican? Cant be, he is implying Bush made a mistake by taking us to Iraq. Is he a anti-Kennedy democrat? A pro nixon democrat? An anti bush republican? my god, I cant figure it out. I dont know what to say to this guy. I know, let me probe him with a few general statements about bush to see how he reacts.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
So go fuck with someone else who will buy what you're selling. Cause Im not a sheep like you think. The wolf just bit you in the ass.
Codackussell 2 years ago
"So go fuck with someone else who will buy what you're selling. Cause Im not a sheep like you think. The wolf just bit you in the ass"
Oh please. I picture you saying that with the voice of Elmer Fudd.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Yeah cause you're oh so predictable. Did you vote for Obama? Bet you didn't. Now YOURE evading the question. You talk about labels and still dont say what you are.
Codackussell 2 years ago
"Yeah cause you're oh so predictable. Did you vote for Obama? " I am predictable?? Listen to yourself. You are lost. You cant figure it out. You are struggling to put a label on me. What does Obama have to do with JFK?? You think history is something to be manipulated and twisted in order to gain some kind of credit in the political battles of today. You will never understand the truth. Once a sheep, always a sheep.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"Now YOURE evading the question. You talk about labels and still dont say what you are." My god you are so clueless. I dont what I are??? How stupid can you be? I am enjoying watching you struggle.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JF wanted to invade Cuba. He just chickened out at the last minute. send troops to vietnam. Diem didnt want the troops.Diem said no more than 12000, but JFK sent 18000. JFK wanted to remove Diem via coup, so then he could send as many troops as he wanted, and prosecute the war with no messy restrictions cause by a sovereign government with its own ideas and objectives that did not involve destroying the country by a large scale war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"You realize no one else has responded to your posts in the last 4 days... Probably cause everyone thinks your an idiot."
You are correct...
kac56 2 years ago
Did you know that all the Doctor's Report and Autopsy report conclude a large exit wound in the back of JFK's skull?
They autopsy also found bullet fragments from two different guns!
Anyone who thinks Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone doesn't know the truth about what really happened.
DavidAtleePhilips 2 years ago
robert kennedy was going to impeach LBJ
datzfast 2 years ago
Exit Strategy
In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam
James K. Galbraith
kac56 2 years ago
Exit Strategy
In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam
This is bullshit. Galbraith is a Kennedy shill. JFK ordered a complete withdraw?? There is no evidence for this, except Galbraith's word. I assume this is before he decided to take out vietnam's president.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I copied/pasted a bit of Galbraith's review of McNamara's book. I guess McNamara doesn't know what he's talking about though...
Even though he was there - right?
There are numerous sources where McNamara said JFK was pulling out, including in his own book. Do some research.
kac56 2 years ago
After killing Diem, withdraw was impossible, unless JFK was willing to accept "losing Vietnam" . There was no way , at the height of the cold war, that a person like JFK would have simply accepted defeat and pulled out. This would have meant political defeat for sure. The republicans would have roasted him alive.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"There was no way , at the height of the cold war, that a person like JFK would have simply accepted defeat and pulled out. This would have meant political defeat for sure. The republicans would have roasted him alive."
That's why he was going to wait...Until after the 64 election.
kac56 2 years ago
somebody has a good imagination. They can predict what Kennedy's policies would be, years after his death. By 1964, south vietnam was in pretty bad shape because of JFK's coup that killed Diem. The vietnamese people did not support the puppet government, and viet cong were controling large regions of the delta. This is why LBJ escalated, because they were losing so badly. JFK would have done the same, if not more. JFK was by far a bigger hawk than LBJ.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
you still never explained the rationale for killing Diem and putting in the puppet government, if the US was planning to end involvement in south vietnam. Why did JFK destroy the only stable government in the south, if he was planning to pull out?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
And you've never offered proof that JFK ordered Diem to be killed.
Put this in Google, read a few articles, then get back to me. That is, if you have an open mind. But I suspect your mind is closed.
"McNamara says JFK was pulling out of Vietnam"
kac56 2 years ago
You don t think the coup was the idea of the JFK administration? Then I guess in your mind, JFK had totally no control over what was going on in his administration. The idea for the coup came from JFK. It is in every book about vietnam. read the pentagon papers. JFK gave the final approval.
Jellolion1 2 years ago