Re: Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation? No. (zkueker88)

[lllannallll]

i see what the problem is: zkeuker88 = tardo

[paulinegrace7]

This is very good and rightly divided Word see Pastor Larry Griffin on youtube  Bless You!!!

[pgfracing]

It is a commandment to get baptized. If you have the ability to be baptized and you choose not to you are not following Jesus. So one should ask themselves if you are a believer in Christ, why have you not decided to get baptized? That is the question to ask. 1 Peter 3:21 is clear that baptism saves you, not by your power, but by the power of resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[TheShelia6]

I see why you think the way you do, If you think of it more of a meal that everyone is welcome to, as long as you believe, but you are to bring a spoon and come get the meal. Just because you don't have a spoon does not mean you will not get the meal. The man on the cross with Jesus could not get baptized after he believe but our Lord save him base only on his faith. We are saved by grace not by our works that is why it is a gift. The act of baptize is a symbolic of our dedication to God.

[rjohson]

@TheShelia6 i come to believe what you believe

[BlackFox0911]

@TheLuhya - It kind of lends itself to the parable of the ten virgins and Acts 17:30. The unwise virgins had ample opportunity to prepare before the moment of trial. The same situation could be said of a man, trying to drive to a church to get married. If he died en route, his widow would not be legally able to claim him as her husband

[BlackFox0911]

@TheLuhya - Going back to the guy who dies in a car crash. Let's assume that, after repenting of his past sins and confessing Christ, he was driving to a church to be baptized. The fact that he was driving leads me to believe that he was at least 16 years old. He may have had good intentions, but it doesn't excuse the fact that he already had had 5-7 years to make such a decision

[BlackFox0911]

@TheLuhya - cont'd

Jesus was baptized with water immersion baptism. Matthew 3:16, calling special attention to the phrase "...after he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water...". Why shouldn't we strive to emulate both his teachings and actions? If there are different meanings of baptism, I'd love to learn about them. But I think the meanings used in the bible were self explanatory.

[TheLuhya]

@BlackFox0911 Same to you man! I went from talking to unbelievers to conversing with fellow believers and I found that christians are much nicer! Haha so I kinda prefer talking about this stuff with Christians like you but I also know we are supposed to spread the word with unbelievers so I do. Anyways, faith without works is really not faith at all, which is what that passage I believe is saying. If someone tells me my house is on fire and I have faith in their word (believe them) then I woul

[lllannallll]

@TheLuhya "Anyways, faith without works is really not faith at all, which is what that passage I believe is saying." No, the passage doesn't say "faith without works is not faith in the first place", but I will say that such an imaginative exegesis fits (sorta) denominational dogma. Faith - trust - belief, without works, is dead - inoperable. James asks the rhetorical negative question, "Can (that or such) faith (faith alone, faith without works) save him?" The answer is obviously, "No."

[TheLuhya]

@BlackFox0911 -cont'd

I would run out of my house. If I just sat in a chair inside my house that's on fire, then my faith was not real, I didn't truly believe because I didn't act. Once you have faith, your actions accompany it. Yes we should follow Jesus' example and we are told we should be WATER baptized but the bible says water baptism is not required for salvation. So if a man were to accept Christ into his life, and believes Jesus is God, and believes Jesus' sayings, then dies from a car

[lllannallll]

@TheLuhya "the bible says water baptism is not required for salvation." No, it doesn't say that. It says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." It says "... baptism doth also now save us ..." It says, "Repent ... be baptized ... unto the remission of sins." It says "taking vengeance on those ... who obey not the gospel." What is the gospel. The death, burial, and resurrection. HOW can you obey except by figure? The Bible does teach that baptism is necessary.

[TheLuhya]

@lllannallll the bible doesn't say "WATER baptism" is necessary for salvation. Understand what I mean? The bible says baptize but not WATER baptize to be saved. we must first understand what baptism by itself means in the scripture. Also we must know that the bible cannot contradict itself, WATER baptism is a physical work done by man therefore is not necessary for salvation but it should be done by believers. I am on vacation but I will be back to comment soon. the bible cant contradict itself!

[lllannallll]

@TheLuhya "we must first understand what baptism by itself means in the scripture." Baptism means immersion, and generally refers to water baptism. Yes, water baptism is a physical work, and faith and repentance are mental works, and are much more difficult than the physical. They're all works, anyway. No, the Bible does not contradict itself. There is one baptism now - and it is water baptism unto the remission of sins.

[TheLuhya]

@BlackFox0911 cont'd

car crash, he didn't have the chance to have water baptism. According to the bible, he would be saved. I myself am still trying to fully understand the full meanings of the different baptisms. I am often referred to titus 3:5-7 as well as the other scripture i have already commented. Also another interesting note on baptism is at 1 corinthians 10:2 maybe you can get more out of it than I can. What did you mean by the thief under the old or new covenant?

[lllannallll]

@TheLuhya "I myself am still trying to fully understand the full meanings of the different baptisms." Interesting subject, but I bear in mind that Eph 4: 4-6 tells me (as of AD 62 or 63) that there is one baptism. There were others at one time, i. e. baptism of John, Holy Spirit baptism, etc. By the way, I believe the thief was pronouced a saved man under the Old Covenant as a Jew:  he is not a proper example of Christian conversion.

[BlackFox0911]

@TheLuhya - Regarding Mark 16:16. It's true that no negative consequences are given for the lack of baptism, but the verse DOES give positive consequences for believing and being baptized. "Believeth" + "Baptism" = "Saved". As far as the afterlife goes, you're either saved or you're not. If you don't meet ALL the above conditions, then you don't qualify for the word "saved".

Also, James 2:26. "...so faith without works is dead also". There has to be physical parts to earning salvation. Jesus w

[BlackFox0911]

@TheLuhya - Before this conversation continues, I want to make something clear. I'm not in this to prove anyone wrong. I don't care about "being right". My priority is the salvation of souls that read these comments. It would be better a millstone be tied around my neck, than to lead one of God's children astray. So don't take this personally. I search the scriptures for the truth the best I can.

[BlackFox0911]

@TheLuhya - It's simple, really. Mark 16:16. "He that believeth (faith) AND is baptized (a work) shall be saved". 1+1=2. Both parts are required to assemble the whole.

Acts 2:38. "Repent (a work), and be baptized (a work) every one of you..."

As for the thief on the cross. Had Jesus died yet? So was the criminal subject to the new covenant or the old covenant?

[TheLuhya]

@BlackFox0911 It goes on, "but he that believeth not shall be damned." It does not say but he that believeth not AND does not get baptized shall be damned. There are 2 baptisms that often get mixed up: WATER baptism (work) and the baptism John describes that comes through Jesus as the Holy Spirit makes us new (matt. 3:11 and also titus 3:5-7<-notice WASHING of rebirth) I would like to ponder more on the thief on the cross. Are you denying the multiple verses saying salvation not through works?

[TheLuhya]

My thoughts on this: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works. -Ephesians 2:8-9 WATER baptism is a work, therefore is not necessary for salvation. The man on the cross next to Jesus had faith and was saved without WATER baptism. So how would you explain to me the criminal on the cross's situation?

[oldiesbutgoodies67]

Well said. I'm Catholic and cannot accept that American Indians before Columbus or other "Godly" Human Beings and especially young children were not saved because they were not baptized because the faith had not reached them yet. After Death, The High Priest from Nazareth, Jesus Christ, can baptize all the good people especially children in a heavenly species of what us Catholics call Purgatory. Dan O'Niallain

[audbry13]

you have to believe repent and be baptized! Let's not forget repentence!

[CalvanisticBravesFan]

The thief on the cross was not baptized yet Jesus said that today you shall be with me in paradise.Luke 23:39-44 Please see for yourself!

[ThePhnxman1]

The people came to John confessing that they were sinners, and "...justified God, being baptized of him...". True believers are still coming and confessing that they need remission of sins: and they submit to the waters of baptism "...in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...", and they are STILL receiving the Holy Spirit and "...speak in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance."

The Gospel has NOT changed!

[ThePhnxman1]

What are the scriptures REALLY saying?

"Except a man be born (gennao) again (from above)...".

Gennao = begotten; to come outof the womb. Thus, Jn.3:3..."Except a man be born (begotten) from above (from God), he cannot SEE..."; then, Jn. 3:5..."Except a man be born (come out of the womb) of water and the Spirit, he cannoy ENTER...".

[miket1m]

Matt is the same guy who told me Mark 16:16 was not in the Bible. He is a foolish man.

[miket1m]

Read Mark 16:16

[Judgement220]

rjohson, I don't think you know what you are talking about. When you receive the holy spirit you belong to Christ and all who are in Christ will not be condemned Romans 8:1. If you go to Act 8:9-25, you will see that Phillip simply baptized the Samaritans in Jesus name and they did not get the holy spirit, Peter and John were concerned and had to pray for the holy spirit and layed hand on them for that to happen. Why, because you don't belong to Christ unless you have the holy spirit.

[Judgement220]

Your analogy is not a good analogy because buying a lottery ticket is something that you do for merit in order to be rich, in other words, you have to earn it. Salvation is from the Grace of God, and a free gift. Now how can something be a Gift, and you have to earn it?

[rjohson]

@Terry8150 In Acts Chapter 8, beginning with verse 36, , "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, ' See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized

[Terry8150]

@rjohson No problem with the verse in context.  Must include Acts 8:37 with verse 36 in order not to teach water baptism saves. The person must be saved before they are water baptism. That is consistent with Acts 2:21 and especially Romans 10:8-10. Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart." As you said, "beginning with verse 36" The gospel was preached, the eunuch believed, and then was water baptized. That makes the action o water baptism a testimonial to what the eunuch believed.

[Terry8150]

Paul wrote that there is "one baptism." Who is the baptizer?

[rjohson]

@Terry8150 he holy ghost is the baptizer



[Terry8150]

@rjohson The Holy Ghost baptized the body of Christ at pentecost. There is one body. Their is only one baptism that has to do with the salvation of the body of Christ. The body of Christ "have been all made to drink [into] one Spirit." 1Cor.12:13 That's why Paul could say, " I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius." 1Cor.1:14 Paul preached the cross, not water baptism. 1Cor.1:18

[rjohson]

?' @Terry8150 In Acts Chapter 8, beginning with verse 36, , "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, ' See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized

[CastingStonez]

@rjohson

You are correct brother...

tell zack to read 1Peter 3 and James 2...

1 Peter 3 says that Baptism saves and James 2 says the Even the demons believe and tremble...

So, are the demons "saved" because they believe?

Absolutely NOT...

Zack is NOT called by God the Father to discern the word and he shows us he is just a babe who is still drinking milk...

amen

[CastingStonez]

@CastingStonez

to be specific:

1 Peter 3:21 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

and

James 2:19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ZACK... DEAD. RIGHTEOUS WORKS such as BAPTISM

[taz1234569]

@Terry8150 also read John 3 Jesus talks about being born of water and of spirit one man thought being born again was to go into the mothers womb as an old man and come out again but Jesus said verse 3 except a man be born again he will not see the Kingdom of God and verse 5 except a man be born of water and spirit he will not enter into the Kingdom of God. vs 3 be born again, so this is not talking about your natural birth in vs 5 "water" something else. Full immersion and spirit two parts.

[Terry8150]

@taz1234569 Happened to be on YT when I received this RJ. Please check out John 3:5 again to see if in your bible the word "of" the Spirit, is italicize. Because, the verse should read "be born of water and the Spirit." This is significant, making birth one act by the Holy Spirit, which agrees with what the Lord said and clarifies for us in John 7:38-39. If one reads "of water and of the Spirit", that makes birth a two act proposition. The water in John 3:5 is the Spirit. 1Cor.12:13

[rjohson]

@Terry8150 yes in my bible in john 3:5 one of the word of is italic; so your saying the water is the spirit and there being only one baptism the baptism by fire which is the baptism of the spirit?

well do you see controversy here? did not the bible say john baptized with water but jesus will baptize with fire? so how could the water be the spirit and the fire is? so this leads me to believe u must be patized with water and the spirit(fire)

[Terry8150]

@rjohson RJ, without the italic word "of" the phrase is one act. Yes, John truly baptized with water, but in John's own words, Jesus would baptise with the Holy Ghost, clearly distinguishing that from what he was doing. Mt 3:11, Mk 1:8, Lk3:16, Jn 1:33 Again, Jesus own testimony was that he would baptise with the Spirit. John 7:38-39. What was the "living water" the Lord offered the women at the well?

[ThePhnxman1]

@Terry8150 -- Very well put, Beloved.

[Sheetiron]

Does Baptism Save You? Well... what does the Bible say?

1 Peter 3:20,21- "who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

[JesusIsThe0nlyWay]

and also, it clear states that,

He who believeth AND IS baptized shall be saved.

it isnt: He who believeth AND IS saved shall be baptized.

[JesusIsThe0nlyWay]

give this a thought..

If im on the titanic, and the captains says:

Those who believe that the ship is sinking and will get on the boat will be saved but those who will not believe the ship is sinking will die!

He who believeth and IS baptized shall be saved, those who will not believe will be condemned.

believing = ship is sinking

baptism = getting on boat

why do i die if i dont believe that the boat is sinking? because i cant ride the boat because the ship isnt sinking for me!

[reggie02062]

works cant save you, if that were the case, look how many would be saved. had not Jesus died on the cross for us, we would be totally dammed with know hope of a gracious ever lasting life i agree that baptizing is essential and commanded and we most obey but never say it saves you , JESUS SAVES! THEN NOW AND FOREVER!!

[ise1457]

In the gospel, jesus tells us that everyone of every nation and tongue will have salvation, even those who are not born yet. So in this content, god chooses who to save, and those who are not, so not baptized doesn't mean you are not saved. God has saved you already, you just didn't hear it yet.

[rjohson]

so some people were born just to go to hell makes real good sense dont cha think??/

[gatornation75]

read 1st  Peter 3:21

[Concatenate]

You also have to realize that this zkueker guy admits to being a 5 point Calvinist. Those hardcore Calvinist dudes believe God has already saved the elect, before they even have the chance to believe! He also believes that one cannot lose their salvation, even when the Bible says you can.

[rjohson]

Your trying to argue a mute point, I never said mark 16:16 commands baptisms Acts10:48 and Matt28:19 is where commands lies. Mark 16:16 spells out the consequences for violating the coomand. but if you want to aregue semantics, I can argue, by implicaction and suggestion mark 16:16 commands us to be baptized.

[boybillboy]

In Acts 10:48 Peter commanded them to be baptized because they were already saved. In Matthew 28:19 we have the Great Commission. Nowhere in Matthew 28:19 does the Lord command anyone to be baptized in order to be saved.

[rjohson]

point well taken

[ratprixs]

Each scripture has a context & use of the Holy Spirit. Caiphas & Balems donky had the HS but were not saved. Cornelius had an angel appear before "he had faith" but was not saved. The HS confirmed Gods direction to Peter that salvation was be preached to the Gentiles. Peter finished the Gospel, commanded Baptism, then left. All conversions have Apostles baptizing & leaving as a convert rejoices. Let God handle the "what ifs" but a prayer contradicts the Great Commision.

[Concatenate]

I think there are two different instances of "receiving" the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts. One was the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the other was baptism in the name of Jesus in water. In Acts 10, Cornelius and his house received the baptism of the Holy Spirit to fulfill an Old Testament promise that "all mankind" (Joel 2:28) would receive the outpouring of God's Spirit.  Cornelius, being a Gentile, received this baptism, and we already saw back in Acts 2 that the Jews had received it.

[Concatenate]

Now look at Acts 10:48, Peter commands Cornelius to be baptized IN THE NAME OF Jesus, in water. Throw back to Acts 2:38 and look at the language there, the same Peter commands the crowd to be baptized IN THE NAME OF Jesus and they "shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Why would Peter, a Spirit inspired man, issue a command to be baptized in the name of Jesus when supposedly Cornelius had already been saved a few verses before? My take is that Cornelius was not yet saved until he obeyed

[rjohson]

i thought i did post it as a video repsonse to his video

[axisapex]

you should post it as a video response to his video