Never to be used for containing the Blood of the Lord are flagons, bowls, or other vessels that are not fully in accord with the established norms. RS 106
But, mayber you have a point...maybe mass should just be a free-for-all. Lets spruce it up a bit do some improve, make some changes. Do what ever the indivdual community wants...lets do away with notions like sacrifice and reverence...lets get rid of the Holy Eucharist...Make it entertaining...pack the house...thank you for opening my eyes...or why reinvent the wheel, lets just go to a protestant service
Pray for yourself you stupid piece of shit, For starting this whole mess in the first place. Believe me a couple of us are looking for you. And when we find you, better get yourself a very dam good lawyer. 5 members of this congregation have contacted lawyers concerning the violation of our right to privacy. You shouldn't pick on churches with people who make big bucks and have kick ass lawyers as a norm here in Aliso.
You punk ass! If you don't like it join Opus Dei or some other ridiculous ultra orthodox masachistic catholic organization. Shit, who asked your fucking opinion about this mass anyway. You don't even go to church here. Fucking coward!
Please refrain from calling me a "punk ass". That was not very charitable of you. I don't know much about Opus Dei (and never heard of it before the DaStupid Code), & I don't think there are any "ultra orthodox masachistic" Catholic organizations. I'm a guy and I'm Catholic, hence the username. And if I did go to Mass there, then I would report that priest to his Bishop, and also write a letter to the Vatican.
Also, dressing up as Satan constitutes a profound liturgical abuse, not only to the parishoners and the Church, but also it's an abuse to Jesus Christ Himself.
Oh please! Get over your big bad self! This isn't your church, it's ours and we PRAISE the LORD in many ways. Not accepting Jesus Christ is offensive to God, but thanks for the FYI. What are you, His spokesperson? Take a breather, get a life and get out of ours! What did you think this would do, stop us from being the parish we are? Well, you lose! AMEN!
Yes, the raping of young men and women by priests is a horror. Now, what type of priest would be able to get away with that. What character of man would be able to con his way into the homes and hearts of parents. One whom everyone thinks is wonderful and fun and friendly and brings many into his "flock" and has a wierd preoccupation with childish things. And one who made a joke during the mass of the "misconduct scandal" as something that would be "bested" by a priest in a chicken suit.
The priest HAS been spoken to. The Bishop HAS been spoken to - but everybody can see how useless that's been. NO MATTER WHERE YOU SAY THE MASS those things are not allowed. And the priest changing the words of the mass - what has an office building got to do with that? You're making excuses for the inexcusible. Please look at the indefensibility of this.
RE: "you would never use church funds to build that first..." That's exactly what's done, the priest needs to live with his bride, the Church, and be ALWAYS available to the parishioners to open the church, to respond to a need for confession (oh, sorry, I forgot, no confession in this parish), to be a father to his people. When YOU go home at night, don't you go to your spouse, or do you have a separate apartment a few miles away?
Fine re: the gated community thing - but what about confession? If he can come to an office building for mass, surely he can spend time there for confessions, no?
No, actually, it's not. Because one should not celebrate the pagan part of the holiday AT MASS. At Christmas we don't do that. And the Church has never celebrated the pagan part of the holiday at mass, it has always celebrated the saints instead of demons and witches. So again, why place paganism where it was not before?
Actually Christmas has always been about Christ's birth. They chose to celebrate it at a time the pagans did so thy would not be persecuted by celebrating openly during Roman times. But it has always been about the incarnation. So this comparison does not wash.
" Concerned catholics kill those who don't share your beliefs."
Hmmm, now that statment speaks volumes about your hatred, your rage, and your disgusting plot to cause harm to our parish. If I ever catch you, you fu!king coward, I will kick your ass! If I ever hear that your dam videos cause harm to our kids at Corpus Chirsti I will hunt you down and send you to hell were you belong. You disgusting irresponsible ultra-orthodox punk as%holes!!
I am not a member of said group, but I thought I should point out that this was one of YOUR people making accusations without basis. No one, from what I can tell, wants to kill anybody. They just want a decent mass. So take your foul language straight to the confessional, bucko.
" Concerned catholics kill those who don't share your beliefs."
Hmmm, now that statment speaks volumes about your hatred, your rage, and your disgusting plot to cause harm to our parish. If I ever catch you, you fu!king coward, I will kick your ass! If I ever hear that your dam videos cause harm to our kids at Corpus Chirsti I will hunt you down and send you to hell were you belong. You disgusting irresponsible ultra-orthodox punk as%holes!!
I don't think the church produced these people you mention. Their parents produced them. But re: the works of Mozart and Palestrina, the Church sponsored their art, so therefore, it is more right to say the church produced them.
And yet, that is precisely what a Nuptial Mass is. If you don't like being presented with the reality of Calvary at every Mass, then I suggest you not be Catholic because that is precisely what the Mass is. Perhaps you should read Scott Hahn's book _The Lamb's Supper_.
The real shame in this is that the priest (and his bishop) wont see anything wrong with what they are doing. They cant see how utterly silly, patronizing, crass and insensitive they are. What a pitifull event.
I would suggest reading the documents before you inform people as to what the "RULE" is. Seem we don't even have to debate this, its been settled by the magisterium.
Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate. From redemtionis sacrementum #117
as Christ suffered an attack to save the world, the cameraman suffered silently to help save the Church. I attended that Mass. Believe me, to sit and say nothing was torture, but necessary to prove beyond a doubt to Rome that this kind of disgrace occurs regularly in the Diocese of Orange under Bishop Tod Brown. Hopefully they will do what they should, and remove them both.
Can anyone picture a marriage at Calvary? Yes. We do it for every Nuptial Mass. As Christ himself is the bridegroom, the Church the bride, he is the husband who lays down his life for his wife (to reference St. Paul in Corinthians). The crucifixion is where the marriage between Christ and his Church took place, the consummation of the convenant. Now - as for Passion Sunday/Barrabas thing, in that instance we are reminded of our own sinfulness. That is a different thing all together.
OftheTrueChurch - need to point something out to you. First, this was a valid mass. It was illicit. But not invalid. Second, Halloween is actually a Christian holiday, for it celebrates the eve of All Saints. It was STOLEN by pagans to warp it to their own ends. Catholics can send their kids out trick or treating in costumes. This mass, however, was riddled with liturgical abuses (not just costumes) and it was just lacking in dignity. That is why I personally protest it.
It sounds like you may be a convert or new Cath. Just because it is in the missalette (Oregon Catholic Press) does not mean it has been checked out and approved by anyone - if it had been, it would have an imprimatur - and it does not. The "approval" it speaks of (in the missalette itself) means nothing except OCP said they wanted to print a missalette and the Committee on the Liturgy said ok. They haven't looked at it since.
Papa Kenny makes a valid point. You shouldn't be worried that someone videotapes your mass. If you're worried, that means you know something's wrong with it. On a lark, I forwarded the link to this video to benedictxvi@vatican.va, asking if this is something the Holy Father would approve of. Chances are, he won't read his own email - but consider - is this the sort of Mass the pope himself would want to attend? Would he find it appropriate? If not, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
You can bash the cameraman all you want, but the fact is you are ashamed of seeing yourselfs act like complete fools, that is what makes you umcomfortable because somwhere down there you KNOW it is wrong. If you have a problem with the way things are supposed to be done and need this kind of nonsense to satistfy your emptyness then go satrt your own church! 2000 years of tradition WORKS!!
You call yourself a martyr??? Well, why don't you tell us who you are dam cowards!! How dare you "Concerned catholics" sneek into our church for the only purpose of trying to destroy our congregation. My son attends this church. My fear is if some ultra conservative catholic wacko decides to take steps futher than you creeps Because of this video And children get hurt from this. Then your fair game!
Those who defend this "Mass" in the name of Vatican II ought to read what Vatican II actually teaches. There are numerous abuses shown in this video beyond just the costumes: immodest clothing, "musicians" around the altar (which should be stone, not wood), and extraodinary ministers of Communion when there is an able-bodied priest available.
Dude, think about it. What happens if the glass breaks? How do you deal with the precious blood that is on the floor? How do you clean it up and treat it properly? There's a reason glass is not allowed on the altar. (Or is it that you don't believe that it really is the precious blood of Christ that is the problem here?)
translation: St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross apparently worshipped the wrong way if dancing around in a Barney costume is the way to properly do the mass. They, and most of the saints of old, along with all the ancient ways of the church, must be fraudulent.
If you were going to meet Jesus and have dinner with him at a 5 star restaurant would you a) go in your finest clothes or b) show up in a Barney suit? Wouldn't you want to show him respect? Going as a witch or devil is like going before the Pope in a thong and bikini.
You may have legetimate feelings about your experience of worship being videotaped, but to compare it to terrorisim is absurd. If you cannot state your case rationally, why bother.
David wasn't dancing in the temple. And if you want to "disagree on the ingredients for Godly worship" why don't you go to a church that has no rules - like a "non-denominational church". They don't have any descendents of the apostles who were promised the guidance of the Holy Spirit for the revelation of all truth. But they've got FUN!!
It's the lack of teaching and responsibility of our bishop (Tod Brown) - these abuses have been occuring since his arrival and he does nothing.
The Novus Ordo lends itself to being a show rather than an offering of the Perfect Sacrifice.
Turn the priest around again, to face Our Lord in the Tabernacle, as our leader to Him, as the center of our existance - and things would begin to change.
That is a typically protestant response. The Catholic Church is the Church created by Christ. It speaks for God. When the Magisterium gives direction it IS from God. If you are old enough to read this and have not been taught this by your pastor or your CCD teacher - then they are in error. Go do some homework on the teachings of the Church.
The Church is our Mother - we must do as she says, or we are separating ourselves from her, like a rebellious child.
It says that whatever the Church declares as law, is law in heaven and on earth and **that includes the mass**. Why would it NOT include the mass? It **DOES** include the mass. And I notice you didn't address the Old Testament, either. God does care how he is worshipped.
Matthew 16:17-19. That's how we know. "Whatever you(the Church, Magisterium, Pope) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven..." And if it's bound in heaven, God cares. And he really cared enough about how he was worshipped to incinerate Aaron's two sons who didn't do it properly in the Old Testament. Oh yeah. He cares.
An Absolute DISGRACE to the roman catholic church and a mockery of the holy mass! totally out of line and total secularized NONSENSE! There is ONE tradition, Rome would be disgraced. There is evidently somthing very wrong going on with corpus christi church is this diocese. The mass is not a show to entertain people who are bored with sacred tradition. I can safley say that this is very far from how Jesus wants the mass to be celebrated and the most holy eucharist to be consecrated.
My frined in the Lord. We are a 2000 year old Church that has many rich and beatiful traditions. I am sory, but dressing as devils at Mass is not one of them. Halloween fun has its place, but not at Mass, not like this.
Even apart from the costumes this liturgy was ladden with abuse. The wine was consacred in a glass flagon and poored by a layman into cups. This is violation of three norms. There are more if you want them...
You clearly do not have an understanding of the Mass. Through the Mass, any Mass we die and rise with Christ and ascend to the Fathers right Hand, with Jesus Christ we are offered to the Father! If you find this boring...God bless you
To me your mass is banal. The icky, sappy, hippy-dippy music (ohmygosh, the Church produced Palestrina and Mozart and we have to be subjected to this?). And changing the words of the universal, holy mass? He does not have the power or authority to do that.
For those who see no wrong in this I would propose that you imaginge that this was a the funeral of your grandmother that happened to fall near Halloween. Even if people had the best of intentions in wearing thier Holloween costumes, it would be grossly in approprate. The is the celebration of the Passion Death and resurrection of Christ. We are there with Him. I hope this helps some to apprecate the gravity of the situation.
The point here is not to mock him, but to make him aware that, while he may be a decent man and a good priest, he is making a mockery of the prayer of the universal Church.
The host IS the Word of God - made flesh. It is Christ himself. Christ himself! And he acts like he doesn't respect that. If telling you about how he passed out in his superman costume is powerful homiletics, somebody let Benedict XVI know, because I'm sure he's unaware of it.
He's there to get attention and put on a show. Read the blogs all over the internet. You think WE don't get it? - Honesty? ask him why he lives in a gated community, away from the parish, away from his spouse, away from the Blessed Sacrament?-away from the eyes of his parish congregation. Unavailable except by appointment.
Your language regarding the Mass "I go to be fed the word" "I go to be fed the host" I, I, I, is what Fr. Fred has turned the Mass into - he has misled all of you.
His "job" is to be the minister of the sacraments, yet there are no scheduled confessions. His "job" is to be the minister of the sacraments, yet "daily Mass" is not available on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday or Saturday, the day of our Blessed Mother, the day specially set aside by her for the devotion of First Saturdays.
John you are supposed to be touched by The Eucharist and Jesus Sacrifice. We are supposed to dress with respect in front of Jesus at The foot of The Cross Not in clown suits.
The Mass has been and continues to be an offering of the sacrifice or our Lord, Jesus, to the Father. Your statement, "What matters about the mass is the word of Christ and the celebration..." WRONG! The mass isn't about you or the celebration. It's about God. It's the one hour we(are required by the teachings of the Church) get to give Him honor, respect, adoration and ourselves. It's about us honoring Him. - that was NOT present in that Mass.
No Chillin2day, what matters about The Mass, Is The Eucharist, The Real Presence, The Body and Blood Of Jesus. Our presence at The foot of the cross at Calvary. That is what is important, Having The word be just important you can go to any Protestant Church they will welcome you with open arms.
Have you checked any of the docs mentioned by me in the "Catholic Halloween Mass" posts? You are incorrect - Fr.Bailey, the laity and the deacon (if that WAS a deacon) are NOT FOLLOWING THE "procedures and such" of the Roman Catholic Mass. PLEASE check your 'facts'. There is everything "wrong with this".
MT 23: 27,28 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
It is obvious by your comment that you are not Catholic or you are not aware of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) from our Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church). And, based on that video, it is obvious that Fr. Fred isnt' either.
Sorry, Fr. Fred, you're going to find out within the next month or so exactly how far away from the "liturgical practices of the Church approved by the Pope" (quote from your June 10 bulletin)you really are.
Fr. Fred CANNOT be in costume (nor can the deacons).
Fr. Fred CANNOT wear a costume under his vestments; CANNOT change the words of the prayers; CANNOT leave the sanctuary during the Mass. The choir CANNOT sit in the sanctuary,etc, etc.
You aren't being logical here. The point is dignity and respect for the blessed sacrament. Come dressed nicely to church. Of the seven gifts of the holy spirit given at confirmation there's "fear of the Lord" or "reverence." Where were such things in this celebration? There was no reverence. The mass was a joke - and dude, the mass is literally CALVARY. We are literally, truly present at CALVARY. Can you imagine cavorting around the foot of the cross while Christ is up there crucified?
If the Vatican II directives included dressing as demons while they distributed communion or as pagans as they sang the psalm, I'd reject them, too. What happened to respecting the real reason for the holiday - All Saints Day? Hmm? This is so lacking in dignity and respect for the real presence in the Eucharist, I would have walked out.
Oh, and btw, I'm not a traditionalist. I'm a life-long attendee of the Paul VI mass. But this would have turned me right off.
Oh, and I should add: even bringing animals to mass, I'm betting medieval mass attendees would never dream of dressing as a demon or witch at mass. Something tells me they had more dignity than that.
What a farce. This misguided 70's crap is so innane, God deserves our best in worship not this nonsence. Jesus died on the cross for us so we could act like asses at Mass, right.
I go to church too. Distractions are part of not being deaf and blind. But I can tell you right now...it is one heck of a lot harder to concentrate when abuses of God's house are happening around me. I've been there.
God turns from no one. That's not the point, though.
You missed what I said earlier, though, Catholic. I said I had no problem with those things *in their place*. Hey, I like baseball too, just not in in church.
Please don't make things up I didn't say. I didn't say "perfect" prayerful environment. But we must do our BEST to achieve it. A party atmosphere does not encourage quiet thanksgiving and adoration of Christ's true and real Presence.
With all due respect you simply have no concept of the universality, the catholicity of the Mass. Thus, ever Mass must be as alike as possible, or unity is lost and we become like so many scattered Protestant denominations. Each Mass is united to the Great Mass offered on Calvary. AS SUCH, it is a holy and beautiful thing. not a Halloween party. Halloween is a pagan festival anyway.
You are trying to prove your point, yet you used a sentence that pissed me off. "Poor confused God." WTF!? God CANNOT be confused! HE IS GOD! how dare you say God is confused and have pity on him! You asked how will He know if people are praising His name in Halloween costumes? Well guess what? ITS A MASS. You WORSHIP at a MASS. It doesnt matter if your in a halloween costume or not!
Never to be used for containing the Blood of the Lord are flagons, bowls, or other vessels that are not fully in accord with the established norms. RS 106
FathaFloyd 5 years ago 3
But, mayber you have a point...maybe mass should just be a free-for-all. Lets spruce it up a bit do some improve, make some changes. Do what ever the indivdual community wants...lets do away with notions like sacrifice and reverence...lets get rid of the Holy Eucharist...Make it entertaining...pack the house...thank you for opening my eyes...or why reinvent the wheel, lets just go to a protestant service
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
Again, if one thinks that the Mass should be "entertaining", then I would seriously question his understanding of the mass...
FathaFloyd 5 years ago 10
Pray for yourself you stupid piece of shit, For starting this whole mess in the first place. Believe me a couple of us are looking for you. And when we find you, better get yourself a very dam good lawyer. 5 members of this congregation have contacted lawyers concerning the violation of our right to privacy. You shouldn't pick on churches with people who make big bucks and have kick ass lawyers as a norm here in Aliso.
catholicavenger2 5 years ago
You punk ass! If you don't like it join Opus Dei or some other ridiculous ultra orthodox masachistic catholic organization. Shit, who asked your fucking opinion about this mass anyway. You don't even go to church here. Fucking coward!
Catholicguy my ass. You sound like
some dam jehovah witness to me.
catholicavenger2 5 years ago
Please refrain from calling me a "punk ass". That was not very charitable of you. I don't know much about Opus Dei (and never heard of it before the DaStupid Code), & I don't think there are any "ultra orthodox masachistic" Catholic organizations. I'm a guy and I'm Catholic, hence the username. And if I did go to Mass there, then I would report that priest to his Bishop, and also write a letter to the Vatican.
Catholicguy 5 years ago
Also, dressing up as Satan constitutes a profound liturgical abuse, not only to the parishoners and the Church, but also it's an abuse to Jesus Christ Himself.
Catholicguy 5 years ago 4
I've lived in a parish with one priest, and he had a regular three hours of confession time on Saturday. It can be done.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Oh please! Get over your big bad self! This isn't your church, it's ours and we PRAISE the LORD in many ways. Not accepting Jesus Christ is offensive to God, but thanks for the FYI. What are you, His spokesperson? Take a breather, get a life and get out of ours! What did you think this would do, stop us from being the parish we are? Well, you lose! AMEN!
ianslass 5 years ago
Cameras don't belong in church? You might want to tell that to the next bride and groom you see getting married in church. =p
sparkyann 5 years ago
Yes, the raping of young men and women by priests is a horror. Now, what type of priest would be able to get away with that. What character of man would be able to con his way into the homes and hearts of parents. One whom everyone thinks is wonderful and fun and friendly and brings many into his "flock" and has a wierd preoccupation with childish things. And one who made a joke during the mass of the "misconduct scandal" as something that would be "bested" by a priest in a chicken suit.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
The priest HAS been spoken to. The Bishop HAS been spoken to - but everybody can see how useless that's been. NO MATTER WHERE YOU SAY THE MASS those things are not allowed. And the priest changing the words of the mass - what has an office building got to do with that? You're making excuses for the inexcusible. Please look at the indefensibility of this.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
RE: "you would never use church funds to build that first..." That's exactly what's done, the priest needs to live with his bride, the Church, and be ALWAYS available to the parishioners to open the church, to respond to a need for confession (oh, sorry, I forgot, no confession in this parish), to be a father to his people. When YOU go home at night, don't you go to your spouse, or do you have a separate apartment a few miles away?
angeladarling56 5 years ago
Fine re: the gated community thing - but what about confession? If he can come to an office building for mass, surely he can spend time there for confessions, no?
sparkyann 5 years ago
No, actually, it's not. Because one should not celebrate the pagan part of the holiday AT MASS. At Christmas we don't do that. And the Church has never celebrated the pagan part of the holiday at mass, it has always celebrated the saints instead of demons and witches. So again, why place paganism where it was not before?
sparkyann 5 years ago 2
catholic315
(look at the post above mine - encinitas25 - talks about "parishioners read" - they're reading the missalette)
angeladarling56 5 years ago
If you think the Bible is just a group of myths, why are you Catholic? Why even bother? It seems to me it would be a waste of your time and ours.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Basically at mass you are at the same calvary in 33AD since it is the one eternal sacrifice. So if you have a wedding mass, I'd say yeah.
sparkyann 5 years ago
The rule says precious metal. Read it again.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Actually Christmas has always been about Christ's birth. They chose to celebrate it at a time the pagans did so thy would not be persecuted by celebrating openly during Roman times. But it has always been about the incarnation. So this comparison does not wash.
sparkyann 5 years ago
" Concerned catholics kill those who don't share your beliefs."
Hmmm, now that statment speaks volumes about your hatred, your rage, and your disgusting plot to cause harm to our parish. If I ever catch you, you fu!king coward, I will kick your ass! If I ever hear that your dam videos cause harm to our kids at Corpus Chirsti I will hunt you down and send you to hell were you belong. You disgusting irresponsible ultra-orthodox punk as%holes!!
catholicavenger2 5 years ago
I am not a member of said group, but I thought I should point out that this was one of YOUR people making accusations without basis. No one, from what I can tell, wants to kill anybody. They just want a decent mass. So take your foul language straight to the confessional, bucko.
sparkyann 5 years ago
" Concerned catholics kill those who don't share your beliefs."
Hmmm, now that statment speaks volumes about your hatred, your rage, and your disgusting plot to cause harm to our parish. If I ever catch you, you fu!king coward, I will kick your ass! If I ever hear that your dam videos cause harm to our kids at Corpus Chirsti I will hunt you down and send you to hell were you belong. You disgusting irresponsible ultra-orthodox punk as%holes!!
catholicavenger2 5 years ago
I don't think the church produced these people you mention. Their parents produced them. But re: the works of Mozart and Palestrina, the Church sponsored their art, so therefore, it is more right to say the church produced them.
sparkyann 5 years ago
And yet, that is precisely what a Nuptial Mass is. If you don't like being presented with the reality of Calvary at every Mass, then I suggest you not be Catholic because that is precisely what the Mass is. Perhaps you should read Scott Hahn's book _The Lamb's Supper_.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Okay, then if it is pagan in origin, why celebrate a pagan holiday at mass? Isn't that incongruous?
sparkyann 5 years ago
The real shame in this is that the priest (and his bishop) wont see anything wrong with what they are doing. They cant see how utterly silly, patronizing, crass and insensitive they are. What a pitifull event.
NoiseGrinder 5 years ago
I would suggest reading the documents before you inform people as to what the "RULE" is. Seem we don't even have to debate this, its been settled by the magisterium.
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
Thanks, Floyd. I was going to quote RS, but I see you did it for me.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate. From redemtionis sacrementum #117
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
as Christ suffered an attack to save the world, the cameraman suffered silently to help save the Church. I attended that Mass. Believe me, to sit and say nothing was torture, but necessary to prove beyond a doubt to Rome that this kind of disgrace occurs regularly in the Diocese of Orange under Bishop Tod Brown. Hopefully they will do what they should, and remove them both.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
Can anyone picture a marriage at Calvary? Yes. We do it for every Nuptial Mass. As Christ himself is the bridegroom, the Church the bride, he is the husband who lays down his life for his wife (to reference St. Paul in Corinthians). The crucifixion is where the marriage between Christ and his Church took place, the consummation of the convenant. Now - as for Passion Sunday/Barrabas thing, in that instance we are reminded of our own sinfulness. That is a different thing all together.
sparkyann 5 years ago
OftheTrueChurch - need to point something out to you. First, this was a valid mass. It was illicit. But not invalid. Second, Halloween is actually a Christian holiday, for it celebrates the eve of All Saints. It was STOLEN by pagans to warp it to their own ends. Catholics can send their kids out trick or treating in costumes. This mass, however, was riddled with liturgical abuses (not just costumes) and it was just lacking in dignity. That is why I personally protest it.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Encinitas,
It sounds like you may be a convert or new Cath. Just because it is in the missalette (Oregon Catholic Press) does not mean it has been checked out and approved by anyone - if it had been, it would have an imprimatur - and it does not. The "approval" it speaks of (in the missalette itself) means nothing except OCP said they wanted to print a missalette and the Committee on the Liturgy said ok. They haven't looked at it since.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
oh my god! it's Satan. aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!
comandanteagi 5 years ago
W Mons.Lefevre!!!!
bricca14 5 years ago
Do you have any proof that anyone here has killed someone who doesn't share their beliefs? If not, you shouldn't make such claims.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Papa Kenny makes a valid point. You shouldn't be worried that someone videotapes your mass. If you're worried, that means you know something's wrong with it. On a lark, I forwarded the link to this video to benedictxvi@vatican.va, asking if this is something the Holy Father would approve of. Chances are, he won't read his own email - but consider - is this the sort of Mass the pope himself would want to attend? Would he find it appropriate? If not, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
sparkyann 5 years ago
If you knew history or how to spell, you might actually be dangerous.
sparkyann 5 years ago
You can bash the cameraman all you want, but the fact is you are ashamed of seeing yourselfs act like complete fools, that is what makes you umcomfortable because somwhere down there you KNOW it is wrong. If you have a problem with the way things are supposed to be done and need this kind of nonsense to satistfy your emptyness then go satrt your own church! 2000 years of tradition WORKS!!
PapaKenny777 5 years ago
You call yourself a martyr??? Well, why don't you tell us who you are dam cowards!! How dare you "Concerned catholics" sneek into our church for the only purpose of trying to destroy our congregation. My son attends this church. My fear is if some ultra conservative catholic wacko decides to take steps futher than you creeps Because of this video And children get hurt from this. Then your fair game!
catholicavenger2 5 years ago
Those who defend this "Mass" in the name of Vatican II ought to read what Vatican II actually teaches. There are numerous abuses shown in this video beyond just the costumes: immodest clothing, "musicians" around the altar (which should be stone, not wood), and extraodinary ministers of Communion when there is an able-bodied priest available.
GodsGadfly 5 years ago
Right back at you, pal.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Dude, think about it. What happens if the glass breaks? How do you deal with the precious blood that is on the floor? How do you clean it up and treat it properly? There's a reason glass is not allowed on the altar. (Or is it that you don't believe that it really is the precious blood of Christ that is the problem here?)
sparkyann 5 years ago
Ah...by your fruits ye shall know them. There's Christian behavior for you.
sparkyann 5 years ago
translation: St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross apparently worshipped the wrong way if dancing around in a Barney costume is the way to properly do the mass. They, and most of the saints of old, along with all the ancient ways of the church, must be fraudulent.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Also, I am 18 and even I know this mass is twisted. >_<
fluffyundertaker 5 years ago
If you were going to meet Jesus and have dinner with him at a 5 star restaurant would you a) go in your finest clothes or b) show up in a Barney suit? Wouldn't you want to show him respect? Going as a witch or devil is like going before the Pope in a thong and bikini.
fluffyundertaker 5 years ago
You may have legetimate feelings about your experience of worship being videotaped, but to compare it to terrorisim is absurd. If you cannot state your case rationally, why bother.
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
David wasn't dancing in the temple. And if you want to "disagree on the ingredients for Godly worship" why don't you go to a church that has no rules - like a "non-denominational church". They don't have any descendents of the apostles who were promised the guidance of the Holy Spirit for the revelation of all truth. But they've got FUN!!
angeladarling56 5 years ago
It's the lack of teaching and responsibility of our bishop (Tod Brown) - these abuses have been occuring since his arrival and he does nothing.
The Novus Ordo lends itself to being a show rather than an offering of the Perfect Sacrifice.
Turn the priest around again, to face Our Lord in the Tabernacle, as our leader to Him, as the center of our existance - and things would begin to change.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
That is a typically protestant response. The Catholic Church is the Church created by Christ. It speaks for God. When the Magisterium gives direction it IS from God. If you are old enough to read this and have not been taught this by your pastor or your CCD teacher - then they are in error. Go do some homework on the teachings of the Church.
The Church is our Mother - we must do as she says, or we are separating ourselves from her, like a rebellious child.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
You only had to say it once.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Nope. Not at all. He brought us into this world, he can take us out.
sparkyann 5 years ago
It's a possibility.
sparkyann 5 years ago
It says that whatever the Church declares as law, is law in heaven and on earth and **that includes the mass**. Why would it NOT include the mass? It **DOES** include the mass. And I notice you didn't address the Old Testament, either. God does care how he is worshipped.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Actually, it was a valid mass, just not licit. Christ was present, he just wasn't happy about. The words of consecration were said.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Matthew 16:17-19. That's how we know. "Whatever you(the Church, Magisterium, Pope) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven..." And if it's bound in heaven, God cares. And he really cared enough about how he was worshipped to incinerate Aaron's two sons who didn't do it properly in the Old Testament. Oh yeah. He cares.
sparkyann 5 years ago
That's exactly what the devil wants you to think.
bout90feet 5 years ago
An Absolute DISGRACE to the roman catholic church and a mockery of the holy mass! totally out of line and total secularized NONSENSE! There is ONE tradition, Rome would be disgraced. There is evidently somthing very wrong going on with corpus christi church is this diocese. The mass is not a show to entertain people who are bored with sacred tradition. I can safley say that this is very far from how Jesus wants the mass to be celebrated and the most holy eucharist to be consecrated.
PapaKenny777 5 years ago
My frined in the Lord. We are a 2000 year old Church that has many rich and beatiful traditions. I am sory, but dressing as devils at Mass is not one of them. Halloween fun has its place, but not at Mass, not like this.
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
Even apart from the costumes this liturgy was ladden with abuse. The wine was consacred in a glass flagon and poored by a layman into cups. This is violation of three norms. There are more if you want them...
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
I have to ammend this, I was on the phone when I typed it "The wine was consacrated in a glass flogon and the Precious Blood was poured...
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
You clearly do not have an understanding of the Mass. Through the Mass, any Mass we die and rise with Christ and ascend to the Fathers right Hand, with Jesus Christ we are offered to the Father! If you find this boring...God bless you
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
stop erasing the comments. keep it fair game.
werejustcool 5 years ago
why are people so naive? can you people find something else to complain about?
werejustcool 5 years ago
To me your mass is banal. The icky, sappy, hippy-dippy music (ohmygosh, the Church produced Palestrina and Mozart and we have to be subjected to this?). And changing the words of the universal, holy mass? He does not have the power or authority to do that.
sparkyann 5 years ago
For those who see no wrong in this I would propose that you imaginge that this was a the funeral of your grandmother that happened to fall near Halloween. Even if people had the best of intentions in wearing thier Holloween costumes, it would be grossly in approprate. The is the celebration of the Passion Death and resurrection of Christ. We are there with Him. I hope this helps some to apprecate the gravity of the situation.
FathaFloyd 5 years ago
The point here is not to mock him, but to make him aware that, while he may be a decent man and a good priest, he is making a mockery of the prayer of the universal Church.
sparkyann 5 years ago
The host IS the Word of God - made flesh. It is Christ himself. Christ himself! And he acts like he doesn't respect that. If telling you about how he passed out in his superman costume is powerful homiletics, somebody let Benedict XVI know, because I'm sure he's unaware of it.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Honey, I am not jealous. I'm relieved and thanking God I don't have to attend a mass so ridden with liturgical abuse.
sparkyann 5 years ago
And I'm relived and thanking God you're not there either. Attend where YOU wish. WE wish to attend here. This church is wonderful and so is Fr. Fred!
ianslass 5 years ago
He's there to get attention and put on a show. Read the blogs all over the internet. You think WE don't get it? - Honesty? ask him why he lives in a gated community, away from the parish, away from his spouse, away from the Blessed Sacrament?-away from the eyes of his parish congregation. Unavailable except by appointment.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
Your language regarding the Mass "I go to be fed the word" "I go to be fed the host" I, I, I, is what Fr. Fred has turned the Mass into - he has misled all of you.
His "job" is to be the minister of the sacraments, yet there are no scheduled confessions. His "job" is to be the minister of the sacraments, yet "daily Mass" is not available on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday or Saturday, the day of our Blessed Mother, the day specially set aside by her for the devotion of First Saturdays.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
John you are supposed to be touched by The Eucharist and Jesus Sacrifice. We are supposed to dress with respect in front of Jesus at The foot of The Cross Not in clown suits.
primetimeJets 5 years ago
The Mass has been and continues to be an offering of the sacrifice or our Lord, Jesus, to the Father. Your statement, "What matters about the mass is the word of Christ and the celebration..." WRONG! The mass isn't about you or the celebration. It's about God. It's the one hour we(are required by the teachings of the Church) get to give Him honor, respect, adoration and ourselves. It's about us honoring Him. - that was NOT present in that Mass.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
No Chillin2day, what matters about The Mass, Is The Eucharist, The Real Presence, The Body and Blood Of Jesus. Our presence at The foot of the cross at Calvary. That is what is important, Having The word be just important you can go to any Protestant Church they will welcome you with open arms.
primetimeJets 5 years ago
Have you checked any of the docs mentioned by me in the "Catholic Halloween Mass" posts? You are incorrect - Fr.Bailey, the laity and the deacon (if that WAS a deacon) are NOT FOLLOWING THE "procedures and such" of the Roman Catholic Mass. PLEASE check your 'facts'. There is everything "wrong with this".
angeladarling56 5 years ago
MT 23: 27,28 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
charsinatl 5 years ago
Dear AVnintendo
It is obvious by your comment that you are not Catholic or you are not aware of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) from our Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church). And, based on that video, it is obvious that Fr. Fred isnt' either.
Sorry, Fr. Fred, you're going to find out within the next month or so exactly how far away from the "liturgical practices of the Church approved by the Pope" (quote from your June 10 bulletin)you really are.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
There is EVERYTHING wrong with this.
Fr. Fred CANNOT be in costume (nor can the deacons).
Fr. Fred CANNOT wear a costume under his vestments; CANNOT change the words of the prayers; CANNOT leave the sanctuary during the Mass. The choir CANNOT sit in the sanctuary,etc, etc.
angeladarling56 5 years ago
catholic315 you rule, thank you for that point.
AVnintendo 5 years ago
You aren't being logical here. The point is dignity and respect for the blessed sacrament. Come dressed nicely to church. Of the seven gifts of the holy spirit given at confirmation there's "fear of the Lord" or "reverence." Where were such things in this celebration? There was no reverence. The mass was a joke - and dude, the mass is literally CALVARY. We are literally, truly present at CALVARY. Can you imagine cavorting around the foot of the cross while Christ is up there crucified?
sparkyann 5 years ago
If the Vatican II directives included dressing as demons while they distributed communion or as pagans as they sang the psalm, I'd reject them, too. What happened to respecting the real reason for the holiday - All Saints Day? Hmm? This is so lacking in dignity and respect for the real presence in the Eucharist, I would have walked out.
Oh, and btw, I'm not a traditionalist. I'm a life-long attendee of the Paul VI mass. But this would have turned me right off.
sparkyann 5 years ago
Oh, and I should add: even bringing animals to mass, I'm betting medieval mass attendees would never dream of dressing as a demon or witch at mass. Something tells me they had more dignity than that.
sparkyann 5 years ago
What a farce. This misguided 70's crap is so innane, God deserves our best in worship not this nonsence. Jesus died on the cross for us so we could act like asses at Mass, right.
ankerous88 5 years ago
PS (cause YouTube has the character limit)
I go to church too. Distractions are part of not being deaf and blind. But I can tell you right now...it is one heck of a lot harder to concentrate when abuses of God's house are happening around me. I've been there.
francesfelicity 5 years ago
God turns from no one. That's not the point, though.
You missed what I said earlier, though, Catholic. I said I had no problem with those things *in their place*. Hey, I like baseball too, just not in in church.
Please don't make things up I didn't say. I didn't say "perfect" prayerful environment. But we must do our BEST to achieve it. A party atmosphere does not encourage quiet thanksgiving and adoration of Christ's true and real Presence.
francesfelicity 5 years ago
God turns from no one, but many turn from God. They must accept the consequences. I'm afraid that Oprahism has no place in theology.
Jitpring 5 years ago
With all due respect you simply have no concept of the universality, the catholicity of the Mass. Thus, ever Mass must be as alike as possible, or unity is lost and we become like so many scattered Protestant denominations. Each Mass is united to the Great Mass offered on Calvary. AS SUCH, it is a holy and beautiful thing. not a Halloween party. Halloween is a pagan festival anyway.
francesfelicity 5 years ago
You are trying to prove your point, yet you used a sentence that pissed me off. "Poor confused God." WTF!? God CANNOT be confused! HE IS GOD! how dare you say God is confused and have pity on him! You asked how will He know if people are praising His name in Halloween costumes? Well guess what? ITS A MASS. You WORSHIP at a MASS. It doesnt matter if your in a halloween costume or not!
AVnintendo 5 years ago
It's the more the fact that they're making worship into a huge joke. I bet God just cracks up laughing when He is demeaned and ignored like that.
francesfelicity 5 years ago
My God has a sense of humor. I'm very sorry that yours doesn't. That must be really depressing for you.
g0nz0jeff 5 years ago
God might have a sense of humor, but mockery isn't funny.
francesfelicity 5 years ago
Are you a pagan? We each have our own gods?
Jitpring 5 years ago
Precisely, this frivolity is an abomination, as J. Ratzinger shows in his book, The Spirit of the Liturgy.
Jitpring 5 years ago
You got it. Without a doubt.
Faldrick 5 years ago
Okay.
deej612 5 years ago