Tetrapod Evolution 5of5

[rahoolbhimani]

almost done #focused

[FellOnSoundGarden]

Institution of creation research .....lmao... what type of research do they conduct there? Doesn't the simple fact that we have fossils of very different dates spanning billions of years immediately prove creation wrong? Aren't all species supposed to be made on the same day? I would love to see what type of "research" is done there.

[ScottyDavid1964]

Marvellous documentry.What a beauitful,humbling truth that evolution is!! How much more gratifying it is,to think that we descended from such simpler forms and to comprehend the wonder of where evolution will take life on Earth in the future after we as a species are long gone.So much more edifying than the stupidity of a bronze-age narrative about a talking snake,an apple and a vengeful god lol.

[KadoatieXD]

I knew dere were not gunna mention Tiktaalik from the very start! ALTHO... I very much expected Tiktaalik 2 be mentioned in the very last part! Tiktaalik was in my mind the whole episode!!!!

[vamshiinhell]

The bible teaches you to turn the other cheek, to love your neighbor, not to kill or lie, ,,,,, but those are not important.................The universe being created in 6 days is important. After all, the bible was a science textbook, right?

[TechnicallyTechnical]

What about Tiktaalik?

[Pazma1]

Thanks again. I'm really loving these videos.

[bombarderoazul]

Why didn't they mention Tiktaliik, it was found in 2007 and it finally solved the mystery of how tetrapods evolved. I guess this program was made before that.

[lardrat]

@bombarderoazul First broadcast 1st February 2001. The transcript is available on the BBC website.

[Sara3346]

Tik f-ing talikk

[Shepherd1OFH]

I really hate it when a brilliant hour long documentary ends with the line "chance and accidents" Don't they realize they loose like 60-70 percent or more of their target audiance when the insert that line? If they just ended it at the very moment before they said that I bet they'd have won over a buch of of folk holding out on the fence.

[skadidal]

@Shepherd1OFH But it IS chance along with natural selection that made us what we are today. We are not an end product of a planned process.

[Shepherd1OFH]

@skadidal Nevertheless, 63% of Americans don't believe in evolution on religious grounds. A lot more would aknowledge the fact of evolution if it wasn't constantly set up as being diametrically opposed to religious belief. We do not know that it is not a planned process. For all we know everything between the big bang and the big crunch or freeze is all planned. The whole proccess of nature itself may have been written by the designer prior to the innitiation of reality.

[Pazma1]

@Shepherd1OFH

I'd rather they tell the truth as it is than pander to people who can't even grasp the basic notions of how we all came to be.

[Shepherd1OFH]

@Pazma1 Except 'chance and accidentds aren't the basic notions. Physics and chemisltry are. Evolution obeys the the same universal laws and principals. It's direct cause and effect mechanics, not 'chance and accidents'.

[Pazma1]

@Shepherd1OFH

I'm just a layman, so maybe you know more about this than I do. But I thought that random mutations happen and the stuff that's beneficial to survival sticks around, the stuff that isn't dies out. It's random Jim, just not as we know it. lol

[Shepherd1OFH]

@Pazma1 Random mutations only a small part of total evolutionary process. They account for changes in DNA structure which translates into changes in protein synthesis. New proteins react differently (yet predictably) in their chemical environment then their predecessor, sometomes manifesting as a new phenotypic trait. Typically, yes, the 'bad' ones are rooted out, and the good ones proliferate. This is not always the case however.

[n987]

I guess this documentary was made before they discovered Tiktalik 

[MalchikBlue]

We have a Christian vote bot. Please thumbs up, rational thinkers!

[Devoreve]

the problem of those videos is, that it says there are 2 forms of life on earth : "real" ones, and "tronsition forms". That's so pretentious. And what about if all life forms were transitions into others ? Evolution is a process, not a fast event. I hate the way they tell this story by the way. And, the thing that is not said about the story of the fingers, is that the missing fingers on Acanthostega and Ichtyostega were actually found by a student, and the discovery stolen by the professor.

[preptimenow]

GREAT!

[111E982a]

flimps. LOL..i love that.

[mmnasir1000]

I am still not convinced. Why are the transitional fossils not so abundant? Maybe some day we will find something else to prove otherwise.

[111E982a]

@mmnasir1000 were you watching the doc at all? transitional species lived only for a short period of time before evolving into the more complete species. so there are less. not all remains get fossilised, so the shorter you live, meaning less descendants, the less fossil of you will be found. you as in species.

[Kayehx]

I didn't know there were 397 Gish's -___-

[Rainfish14]

Can you imagine what it would have been like to wander through those swamps? Imagine catching a salamandeer as big as you are.

[gunsass]

I cant believe the amount of dislikes. Desperate creationists i suppose

[efzt]

Where is this Red hill at,Tennessee?

[mikedelhoo]

Interesting, if perhaps a little over-done in parts! Thanks for posting.

[drav1dan]

Creationists are a transitional form between apes and man. They are smart enough to be discontented with evolution but too dumb to understand it fully.

[vinha1006]

@drav1dan You and a lot of the creationists have something in common. A smart-assed attitude, and a very dim wit. Of course, there are many like you and they in every belief system or discipline. I doubt that you have more than the most rudimentary expertise or depth of knowledge in the discipline either.

[drav1dan]

@vinha1006: I have a deeper knowledge of evolution than a fellow like you can ever hope to have.

[Shigren]

where is tiktaalik? I was waiting for it to show up in this part of the series and it never did. Screw the jaw fragment, give me the fucking animal!

[MalchikBlue]

@Shigren It's fossils haven't been made public at the time. It's a shame because that fossil was the transition everyone was looking for.

[MalchikBlue]

It's too bad Tiktaalik hadn't been discovered when they made this video. That was a ground breaking discovery.

[Pssybart]

This documentary uses a lot of Ennio Morricone music. I sure hope he's an evolutionist, otherwise he'd get pissed!

Anyway, great documentary.

[PhantomSephiroth]

Lol. What happened to Tiktaalik.

[johnsonthebaptist62]

Beware of the bad, scary creationists. They will send us back to the dark ages!! As oppossed to three of the more famous evolutionists of the 19th century; Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

[klooger28]

@johnsonthebaptist62 lol who ever said they were scary? and would like to give a reason why evolution is wrong rather than just naming individuals that did bad things, there is plenty of bad creationists as well....

[Tobsy1981]

@johnsonthebaptist62

Yes you're right. We should fear those who promote ignorance.

Hitler was a catholic Mao's religious leanings I'm unfamiliar with Stalin didn't believe in a god or gods. None of these three men had even a basic understanding of evolutionary theory... so what's your point?

Stalin's orders were carried out by Christians, most of his soldiers were Russian orthodox.

I do hope you reply, you're my favorite type of idiot, I enjoy making people like you look and feel foolish.

[vinha1006]

@Tobsy1981 Isn't that somewhat like making an adobe brick? Take little dirt, feces, and add water. Pretty much the same result, isn't it?

[gamesbok]

@johnsonthebaptist62 Quotes by Hitler showing that he did not accept Darwinian macroevolution:

"The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger

will retain the character of a tiger". - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf,

vol. i, ch. xi

"...nowhere inside a kind

shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today."-

26 July 1942 in 'Hitler's Table Talk'

[h4tchetman]

sometimes i want to round up all the religious an have them go to school lol but i know that they would all kill themselfs.. we would need to give them councilling while they attend school to help them deal with the pain of being lied to for so long

[redfoxonstilts]

The music is just hilarious XD The sound operators had so much fun, I guess

[FlaviusMaximus1967]

@redfoxonstilts I like the music in this video. I wish I could have that soundtrack on in the background when I get in arguments with my wife....

[redfoxonstilts]

@FlaviusMaximus1967 The arguments must be epic then :)

[AcusticDave]

Realize that all mutations are derived out of pure competition between who can be the best at survival, It is the central theme of all life. Diversity must exist in primitive physical evolution. But humans have the intellectual power to speed their evolution, by being able to stimulate competition without death and cherishing the competition as a friend and a welcome element.

Fucking creationists and dogmatists want to perform neural-genocide using a fucking fairy tail as their main weapon

[SoldatSolutrea]

We can all agree that evolution has proof, and very good proof. But this does NOT mean that we should accept Communism. Just regard that in the future everyone.

[holdenbane]

@SoldatSolutrea i couldn't agree more. though i feel compelled to ask: what in the hell do evolution and communism have to do with each other?

[SoldatSolutrea]

@holdenbane By this, I am referring to the fact that many extremists on the far left spectrum of politics believe that 'political evolution' (and the extermination of religion) would come after the realization of our species' origins. Nameless groups such as these wrongly connect newly discovered biological artifacts to some sort of excuse to hand over all wealth to the government. I know that it's silly.

[bananian]

@SoldatSolutrea

they just use that as an excuse to abuse power. Problem solved. Now, onto science.

[GMNives]

I agree with some of the previous people. This documentary is far too sensational for my liking. It destroys it's own credibility with the weird over-dramatizing of every detail.

[CristinaFernandez]

Somehow I don't think a prehistoric shark merits the opera score.

[felixlighta]

LOL!

Institute Of creation research.

Such fail!

[Leehofooks]

Everybody recognize Duane Gish, the Peanut Butter Man? He should get with Ray "Banana Man" Comfort, and Peter "Miracle Mana Bread" Popoff and make a delicious atheist nightmare.

[thebadger587]

Nightmare? More like dream come true. People like that make our point for us.

[norcofreerider604]

Yes, that concentration of Fail in one room would cause the strong interaction between protons and neutrons to fail, destroying all matter in the universe.

[KKM121]

I liked it, but I want to see the end credits.

[DancingHorses26]

It's so obnoxious when creationists say that there isn't enough "evidence" to prove that evolution is real.

They certainly don't worry about little things like evidence when it comes to creationism!!

[goodluckpeace44]

yeah I dont understand why a man of science would believe in a bible, may be he comes from a traditional village?

[ElguapoRll]

Why the hell are the creationist in the show anyways???

[3xcaliburProductions]

Because they cock block the increase in Evolutionary knowledge.

[MrColuber]

Can't you guys recognize comedy gold when you see it? They're in this show for chuckles

[CristinaFernandez]

The same reason they showed Arnold Schwarzenegger in Pumping Iron: as the heavy.

[FirriTriah]

Actually this series is fairly poorly presented and the punch line is a tiny piece of bone. If Tiktaalik had been the end fossil of this show it would have been far better (I realize the show is likely too old for that). But really the science is largely historical and dated. Throw in the sensationalist lines like *needing* to find a transitional form, and you end up with something that's fairly poor scientifically.

I expected better of the BBC.

[gamesbok]

@FirriTriah Tiktallik wasn't even written up in time for the Kitsmuller V. Dover trial. It's very recent.

[FirriTriah]

@gamesbok If you read my comments I said "Tiktaalik may be too new to be included". However my point still stands. Making a film centered around "needing" to find a transitional form and then showing Livoniana which is nothing more than a piece of jawbone, seems like pretty weak sauce considering the actual evidence that was around at the time. Of course now you can make a much better documentary. I recommend "What Darwin Never Knew".

[gamesbok]

@FirriTriah I was just offering the suggestion at to why Tiktaalik wasn't included. Indeed Tiktaalik would have made a powerful addition, and I'm searching for a reason why it wasn't. I've no idea when this 'around this time' was. I think Tiktaalik was published late 2005.

Of course 'Ancient Four-Legged Beasts Leave Their Mark" (ScienceNOW, January 6, 2010) is a complication that is yet to be resolved. As yet the story is a little open-ended. Actually I rather like the bone fragment.



[FirriTriah]

@gamesbok I know you were I'm just saying in my original comment I already acknowledged that Tiktaalik was probably too new. I'm aware of the recent tetrapod footprints providing another wrinkle to the story, though I wonder about the date on them. The bone fragment is interesting, but it provides no evidence the creature actually had legs or fins or not since it is only the jawbone. It seems to be one of those fossils that has become somewhat obscure because of the far better fossils around.

[gamesbok]

@FirriTriah They estimate 395m for the Polish tracks but it's Limestone with no convnient radiometrics. The dating is by associated fossils, standard stratigraphy. I wonder if the creationists will realise this depends on evolutionary theory? So far they are just marks in mud. No indication if they were made on land or in water.

[DungeonMaster200]

very well done

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

4:00

WTF LOL

Classic Creationist Competence[sarcasm]

[lamparalaptopiaguita]

bbc rocks

creationists pwnd.

[VideoPimp22]

hah hah Timbul..I was wondering the same thing..what a piece of shit Gish is.

[janeyanna]

Epic! :D

[Timbul53525253]

How did they get Duane Gish to appear "Hello - this is the BBC. We'd like you to make a cameo appearance on a science programme in order to get your sorry ass handed to you on a plate..."

[herzogf22]

These dreams keep returning... once again 5 burning shrubs... it must mean there is a 5 star obligation!

[xNickTheBrickx]

why no Tiktaalik?? was this made before its discovery???????

[AlmightScoop]

Yes, it was.

[rafaelhsouza]

As always, the scientists do the real work, the creationists do nothing and say bullshit.

[renaudldw]

What about the difference in fingers and air breathing lungs? i don't think they've answered these right?

[Cephalochordata]

Differences between what species?

[renaudldw]

cause the fossil they found had 7 fingers whereas modern tetrapods have 5. so they might need to find transition fossils with 6. also, is there a transition where the animal breathes both air and water? any further elaborations on that topic?

[Cephalochordata]

Acanthostega had 8 fingers and toes.

Ichthyostega had 7 toes (hands are not preserved).

Tulerpeton had 6 fingers.

The basal boney fish evolved the first, primitive lung sacks, probably as a supplement. They still relied mainly on their gills - like bichirs and lungfish, who have kept this ancient version. In Teleostei (modern fish) it has evolved into the swim bladder. In tetrapods it has evolved into lungs as we know them.

[renaudldw]

thanks. :)

[Cephalochordata]

You're welcome.

And you're quite right: This documentary completely skips the ancestry of lungs. Sadly they don't fossilize as easy as finger bones.

[gamesbok]

@renaudldw Anne Boleyn had 6 fingers, and a Lung fish breaths both air and water.

[renaudldw88]

@gamesbok Thanks. I read about a boy in China who has 6 functioning fingers on each hands. They should probably make a documentary about it, using it as evidence that our prehistoric ancestors having more than 5 fingers.

[gamesbok]

@renaudldw88 I was told once that a rabbit can have anywhere between 12 and 18 ribs. There are more and more examples of Devonian fishapods coming from Australia now like Gogonasus. Like Anne Boleyn, I don't think the number of fingers is a big deal.

[intelligentfalling]

No Tiktaalik??

[Cephalochordata]

There is a very obvious reason why Tiktaalik is not accounted for.

This Horizon show aired February 2001.

The first Tiktaalik fossil was unearthed in 2004 and made public in 2006 ;)

[Cephalochordata]

If you ask me, I think Horizon is making way too much hype out of the Livoniana jaw fragment, just because it's a 'New Discovery'.

Two other elpistostegalids, Panderichtys and Elpistostege, had long been known from far more complete fossils, when this show was produced.

[intelligentfalling]

this whole show was kinda sensationalistic. The fact that they even put a twit like dwayne gish on even footing with real scientists is a joke.

[Cephalochordata]

Yeah. Did you notice how they superimpose Gish's face on a human skull at display?

I can't help wondering if the intended him to look like a Grim Reaper claiming the soul of evolution, or if they where insinuating that he himself is an outdated, creationist artifact, ready to be displayed in the museum :D

[intelligentfalling]

He's the grim reaper of rationality.

[Cephalochordata]

He sure is.

[intelligentfalling]

Do we know what the livoniana fragment belongs to yet ?

[Cephalochordata]

Both the original describers 'Ahlberg, Luksevics, and Mark-Kurik' (2000) and lately 'Coates, Ruta, and Friedman' (2008) regard it as an elpistostegalid. A 'fishapod' comparable to Tiktaalik, Panderichtys, and Elpistostege.

The multiple tooth rows appear to be autapomorphic, meaning that it was probably an offshoot with no known direct descendents.

[intelligentfalling]

The text books always get it wrong lol. Probably why Creationists continue to attack evolution through dodgy texts rather than rebutting peer reviewed research.

[MagnaMater2]

Hey, it works really... if you click the back and forth button on the browser, you can vote, revote, revote, revote... i have no ideas about 4pods and I don't give a fig-tree for them, i just like the dramatic music it's a bit like star wars... 4444444444444444 *grins*

[LaughingMand8D]

Countering ignorance and fighting against votebot attacks. Join the fight!

[KeepFreeSpeechFree]

LoR counter!

[thecommonsenseguy]

dj, perhaps you should link a video regarding the new found tiktaalik.

[camino1ca]

There is nothing to "silence the creationist" as was repeated many times in this video. They are following an idea based on their religious beliefs which are static, not science.

[Nightmare060]

It silences the credability though.

[puncheex]

An excellent video on the groundbreaking discovery of how fishes came to walk on land. Not only the discoveries, but the significance for our times.

Thanks, Djarm67.

[A11ex]

Too bad there's not a single word about Tiktaalik.

[Cephalochordata]

Yeah, but Tiktaalik and Ventastega weren't made public until 2006 and 2008, respectively.

These science documentaries are quickly outdated, eh?

[flyingscience]

Lady paleontologist straightens out creationists .Pretty as she is smart -

"Transitional Fossils in Evolution pt. 1 of 4'

[resistanceunion]

Great documentary ... ITs great too see how we the people step by step got too be the most adapted Species in our galaxy.

[Lagomort]

Wow, whoever wrote the narration was a bit of a moron...

[metalorg]

Fantastic

[toughlikepopeye]

Wow -11 for my last comment, incredible. a1ecs126, nowhere in my post did I say that the fish "will" anything with regards to their evolution. The point I made was that if there are 100 of a species of fish with nubs (fins with bones?), some of them will have longer nubs than others as a result of genetic variation. Those with longer nubs are more mobile and more able to escape predators. This means that fish with long nubs survive... and breed, carrying on the beneficial trait of long nubs.

[Nightmare060]

I love Horizen! I need to dig up more episodes like this, especialy on Paleaontology since it's of special interest to me. Thanks a TON for uploading this episode!

[FuzzyDuck]

Brilliant pre-Tiktaalik program ;)

[hollyfromdallas]

deadman1144 asked: weres tiklaalik

Minttzz answered: This show was from 2001. Tiktaalik was found in 2004.

deadman1144 followed up: ooh

All three lines of this intelligent and respectful exchange had multiple thumbs down.

Why?

[djarm67]

I am currently experiencing creationist votebot and comment rating activity on this series "Tetrapod Evolution"

Please rate, comment, favourite and feature this video series.

DJ

[jdf088]

i've noticed this and will do what i can to help counter it, cheers

Jason

[Portugayse]

There's just a thing that bothers me: if they already have ichthyostega and acanthostega, why do they need the freak with seven rows of teeth?

[Cephalochordata]

"if they already have ichthyostega and acanthostega, why do they need [Livoniana]?"

Because there's not much *bang* in-your-face transition about Eusthenopteron. Except from its fin bone structure.

Besides, you can never have enough intermediates. They're simply too darn wonderful :)

[A11ex]

Blasphemy!!! There are no transitional fossils!!!

Ichthyostega was a fully formed tetrapod. So was Acanthostega. Eustenopteron was a fully formed fish. Livoniana and Tiktaalik were fully formed half fish-half tetrapod mosaic species!!!!111oneone

[Cephalochordata]

I call Poe's Law on A11ex's comment XD

[toughlikepopeye]

You have to understand that the changes, as we see them, happen over a span of generations, perhaps thousands of years. All of the limbs on the common ancestor were nubs, as evidenced by the fossils. OVER MANY GENERATIONS the "Fish" with the longest "nubs" would have an advantage in mobility and were more likely to survive predation. Long nub fish screwing another long nub fish = long(er?) nub baby fish.

[hollyfromdallas]

toughlikepopeye: 'You have to understand that the changes, as we see them, happen over a span of generations, perhaps thousands of years. All of the limbs on the common ancestor were nubs, as evidenced by the fossils. OVER MANY GENERATIONS the "Fish" with the longest "nubs" would have an advantage in mobility and were more likely to survive predation. Long nub fish screwing another long nub fish = long(er?) nub baby fish.'

I've got a lot to learn but it's fascinating -thanks for your help!

[Nightmare060]

Upthumbed for blowing the shit out of the water. I will help counteract creationist downvoting for an excelent argument.

It's all see no evidence, hear no evidence, spout bible verses with creationists!

[a1ecs126]

no they happened to evolve them by chance, which made that animal more likely to get away and survive to breed, the animal didn't "want" to do anything, it just did

[DarwinsChihuahua]

Bwaaaahahahaaaaaa!!!! That was priceless.

[a1ecs126]

never occured? check your facts, what about a bacteria that naturally evolved and enzyme to allow it to digest nylon? now that bacteria has a completely unchallenged food supply. is that not beneficial? and becoming resistant to vaccines is beneficial to the bacteria, just not to other lifeforms, an evolved trait has to be beneficial to that organism, not to you

[sy1234]

> Beneficial mutations have never occurred.

lolwut

[JebusGeist]

"And many give the example of bacteria becoming resistant to vaccines. Is bacteria that is killing more and more organisms beneficial? NO!?!?!"

Beneficial to ther dead organisms? no. Beneficial to the bacteria? Yes.

You either are ignoring, or have not been informed about, nylon eating bacteria.

Nylon is not a naturally occuring substance, it is man-made. Prior to nylon's existance there was no bacteria specializing in digesting it because there was no nylon to eat. So why do they exist now?

[Nightmare060]

Such ignorance is a beutifull sight! It's hard to flush this shit away, but I'll do it anyway.

Small mutations happend in an area that benefited the animal, as clearly shown by the fossils. The animal could clearly get around better in it's enviroment with primative limbs to avoid predetors than those without the limbs. Thus, the ones with limbs slowly took over the population over many many MANY generations.

Nice try, but you fail.

[jdf088]

it is for the bacteria numb-scull, the mutation was beneficial to the organism with the mutation, but obviously not for us.

[JebusGeist]

The fish, as in the population of all the fish in one species, want to get away from predators, yes.

Those that are successful live to breed and thus pass on those traits which made them successful.

You are suggesting the fish somehow actively decided "I am going to have chilren who swim faster than me" and that decision somehow made it happen.

So by your logic, if I father a child and both me and that childs mother firmly believe it will be able to see infrared light, then it will see it.

[phicomingatya]

What links this intermediate to a tetrapod? A blood vessel?

I'd say it's still a fish, not half tetrapod at all. Am I missing something?

[DeusMerdaeEst]

No matter how much evidence will be found, creationists will never believe it. They simply can't, because evolution contradicts their holy book.

Great series, thanks for uploading.

[deadman1144]

weres tiktaalik

[Minttzz]

This show was from 2001. Tiktaalik was found in 2004.

[deadman1144]

ooh

[kereng5]

And Ventastega was described in 2008.

[ogbash]

Downloaded the article about livoniana, and wow, it has been found in the place about 100km from where I live now. I and my friend used to do rowing in the river near the place. Next time I'll try to dig it :)

[djarm67]

I've linked this vid to my Neil Shubin vid

[Saukko31]

Thanks, I have seen that, Shubin is awesome (Colbert too). I have to read "my inner fish" but it hasn't translated yet here, or I just read the english book.

[Saukko31]

*your, not my

[djarm67]

Yep this was a pre-tiktaalik doco from the archives.

[Saukko31]

Anyway, good documentary.

[Saukko31]

No Tiktaalik? Was this done before it was found?

[TheRealBladeRunner]

I'd be interested to know if this documentary was done before Tiktaalik was discovered.

[Nightmare060]

I think it was.

[superfisto]

Nice.

I was hoping to see Neil Shubin.

[JJTecumseh87]

LOL u took that face value so much for ur skepticsm lol

[ConstantlyQuestion]

Yeah!! Fight teh lies of teh psyentists! Gawd made us cuz he luvs us!

I tire of creationists.

[TheRealBladeRunner]

"evolution isnt true " -- JJTecumseh87

ISN'T true? You KNOW that do you? You're 100% certain?

Even though we've filmed "micro"evolution happening?

I assume you mean "macro"evolution isn't true. But then how would you know that?

[djarm67]

fourth

Doh!