Wow. I'm doing a lot of work trying to clarify my thinking. 35 yrs of hearing how Christians must follow parts of the law. I now see that being clear about the Covenants is crucial to understanding.
he punishes himself for something that he decided to let happen.
Or he didn't decide to let it happen and this was the only way, which again is self defeating. I'm not trying to knock your faith or anything, but there is no spin you can possibly put on this to make it work
He creates a being (Adam) who is like him in every way, autonomous yet able to be faithful to the image he carries, where there is risk involved that this autonomous creature could fall, for of like when a child is born into the world. (more)
But this God, rather than let all of his creation remain in that state, takes any punishment earned by his creation upon himself, like even you would expect from a good father. And this father gives his gifts to his people, he gives them faith to believe the gospel...
There was no risk, he either set it in motion, knowing the outcome (because everything has to happen with his say so) which makes him utterly cruel and evil, and even if that was the case he knew the consequence of his creation and still set in in motion.
If he took a chance then the oniptance of your God goes out of the window, if he didn't and knew then the cruelty is also very obvious
Sure, he knew what would happen. But being a God who is both demonstrative and personal, he's done a fabulous job as a father so far.
Thing is Ashe, I don't need to defend God to you. He doesn't answer to you, and neither does anyone else for that matter. The one's I've seen be cruel so far, with my own eyes, are people. The God of the Hebrews, who has the power to make death and make life, can do anything, and that changes my perception of who I am and the role of suffering in my life.
He started out out with the killing and slaughter of billions of men women and children, to sum up 85% of the old testament. Great start. He then gives us a course of general apologetics through Jesus and rounds it off with yet another senseless killing. So far so good
the next 2000 years don't speak too highly for his qualifications so far, even at the half way mark, the dark ages stagnated things very well
"He doesn't answer to you, and neither does anyone else for that matter."
And that's the general excuse when there is no argument
No offense, but given that argument, it makes evangelism pointless. If you Can't answer for God. The flaws in his so called perfection are self evident and only compounded by those answers, I wish you could see that's not a "get out of jail free card" anymore
No no no... An argument was made for you, you rejected it with a pedestrian response, blaming God for the whole thing when you know good and well that man is responsible, which is absolutely no argument at all. There aren't any flaws, there are just points of the argument you don't understand. Like Brett, you don't get the distinction between the law and the Gospel. Didn't I say in the video that the response would be merely "No, you're wrong"?
Yes yes yes, I'm afraid that's how it works. I rejected nothing but circular apologetics.
The aurguments I made are based on logic. One cannot happen without the other. If God Knew it was going to happeen and allowed it to he damned billions of souls allowing it to happen, ei: Cruel
If he intended it to happen evil
If he needed it to happen, impotent
And the answer "I don't speak for God" is also wrong, as that's what you do every time you preach "the word".
False Dichotomy. Where do you get that God INTENDED for it to happen? Knowing the fall would happen doesn't mean God intended it to happen. Man is still responsible. Man broke the covenant. God did not. But in His forbearance, God has an answer for our fallen nature, it's called the Gospel.
Another thing. You SAY God damned billions of souls, but you don't know that. You ASSUME a number, then you make the assertion that it's a valid number. How is that logical?
He damned people by his creation, damned by his word, damned them becasue they didn't hear his word and damned because as the old testament puts it "hated them"
Also lets not forget his history of making stubborn people like the Pharaoh even more stubborn when they were about to change their mind.
Billions of people have lived and died in the entire history of the world, becasue he decided to make it that way. How many of these billions are in hell.
He saved people by His Son, He Justifies the wicked, He has mercy on whom He will have mercy... AND He hardens whom He will harden, like Pharoah. But by God's grace and mercy, those of us whom He chose before the foundations of the world are already seated in the heavenly realms.
My Bible says (Revelation 7:9) that the numbers of those God has chosen will be so great that no one can count them. That comes from a people who deserve hell, by their own hand. My God is merciful.
Ashe... How does that Question follow? You are the one who pulled a number out of thin air and asserted it was true, I did no such thing. You have to explain yourself.
Do I have to explain to you the demographics on how more have died in history than are alive today? No offense but are you simply going argue that billions have not gone to hell based on your God's "perfect job so far?"
And again, you merely ASSUME they are in hell, and assert your claim with no evidence other than inferences. That you don't like what God has done is evident enough, but to claim you are making logical statements when they clearly are not is painful to observe.
If you don't like what God has done, who in his mercy and grace declared at the beginning to take care of the problem by his own hand, then I don't know what else to say to you.
Oh don't give me the "if you don't liek what God has done' Argument. Thats simply lame
I don't like the excuses you make to hold onto something that was bastardized to begin with. Created to enforce immoral rules, and something that continues to threaten the advancement of human nature if you happen to wrong.
I hate what your religion has to those who simply wanted the best for humanity.
I hate that your religion would even see a silver linining in a nuclear cloud over Israel
Wow. I'm doing a lot of work trying to clarify my thinking. 35 yrs of hearing how Christians must follow parts of the law. I now see that being clear about the Covenants is crucial to understanding.
macpduff 2 years ago
I'm sorry but I understand it all too well
he punishes himself for something that he decided to let happen.
Or he didn't decide to let it happen and this was the only way, which again is self defeating. I'm not trying to knock your faith or anything, but there is no spin you can possibly put on this to make it work
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
He creates a being (Adam) who is like him in every way, autonomous yet able to be faithful to the image he carries, where there is risk involved that this autonomous creature could fall, for of like when a child is born into the world. (more)
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
But this God, rather than let all of his creation remain in that state, takes any punishment earned by his creation upon himself, like even you would expect from a good father. And this father gives his gifts to his people, he gives them faith to believe the gospel...
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
There was no risk, he either set it in motion, knowing the outcome (because everything has to happen with his say so) which makes him utterly cruel and evil, and even if that was the case he knew the consequence of his creation and still set in in motion.
If he took a chance then the oniptance of your God goes out of the window, if he didn't and knew then the cruelty is also very obvious
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
Sure, he knew what would happen. But being a God who is both demonstrative and personal, he's done a fabulous job as a father so far.
Thing is Ashe, I don't need to defend God to you. He doesn't answer to you, and neither does anyone else for that matter. The one's I've seen be cruel so far, with my own eyes, are people. The God of the Hebrews, who has the power to make death and make life, can do anything, and that changes my perception of who I am and the role of suffering in my life.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
He's fdone a faboulous job so far
Lets look now
He started out out with the killing and slaughter of billions of men women and children, to sum up 85% of the old testament. Great start. He then gives us a course of general apologetics through Jesus and rounds it off with yet another senseless killing. So far so good
the next 2000 years don't speak too highly for his qualifications so far, even at the half way mark, the dark ages stagnated things very well
Can't see much of a good job so far
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
"He doesn't answer to you, and neither does anyone else for that matter."
And that's the general excuse when there is no argument
No offense, but given that argument, it makes evangelism pointless. If you Can't answer for God. The flaws in his so called perfection are self evident and only compounded by those answers, I wish you could see that's not a "get out of jail free card" anymore
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
No no no... An argument was made for you, you rejected it with a pedestrian response, blaming God for the whole thing when you know good and well that man is responsible, which is absolutely no argument at all. There aren't any flaws, there are just points of the argument you don't understand. Like Brett, you don't get the distinction between the law and the Gospel. Didn't I say in the video that the response would be merely "No, you're wrong"?
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
Yes yes yes, I'm afraid that's how it works. I rejected nothing but circular apologetics.
The aurguments I made are based on logic. One cannot happen without the other. If God Knew it was going to happeen and allowed it to he damned billions of souls allowing it to happen, ei: Cruel
If he intended it to happen evil
If he needed it to happen, impotent
And the answer "I don't speak for God" is also wrong, as that's what you do every time you preach "the word".
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
False Dichotomy. Where do you get that God INTENDED for it to happen? Knowing the fall would happen doesn't mean God intended it to happen. Man is still responsible. Man broke the covenant. God did not. But in His forbearance, God has an answer for our fallen nature, it's called the Gospel.
Another thing. You SAY God damned billions of souls, but you don't know that. You ASSUME a number, then you make the assertion that it's a valid number. How is that logical?
Answer? It isn't.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
You delibertylu igonere the points I made
IF he knew it was going to happen anyway and had control over it not happeneing he decided to let it happen anyway: Cruel
IF he intended it to happen this way (which by your defintion of God is the only way this world coudl be the way it is) he is evil
IF he planned it this way, cruel and evil
IF he needed a plan, impotent
I assume Billions, I think the first 80% of the bible adds up to billions and the rest of the world to countless billions. (cont
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
The answer is in your own bibl
He damned people by his creation, damned by his word, damned them becasue they didn't hear his word and damned because as the old testament puts it "hated them"
Also lets not forget his history of making stubborn people like the Pharaoh even more stubborn when they were about to change their mind.
Billions of people have lived and died in the entire history of the world, becasue he decided to make it that way. How many of these billions are in hell.
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
He saved people by His Son, He Justifies the wicked, He has mercy on whom He will have mercy... AND He hardens whom He will harden, like Pharoah. But by God's grace and mercy, those of us whom He chose before the foundations of the world are already seated in the heavenly realms.
My Bible says (Revelation 7:9) that the numbers of those God has chosen will be so great that no one can count them. That comes from a people who deserve hell, by their own hand. My God is merciful.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
As ever you miss the point
"Jesus saved"
saved who?
Those who don't know his messge? Nope
Those who don't believe it but live good lives? nope
Those who asked questions about the truth behind his "fathers" true love and onipitance? Nope
Those who pointed out that the old Law was not supposed to be changed or added too? Nope
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
And you last claim is so easy to claim. Your God is not mercifil
"no one comes through the father except trhough me"
So be as good as you like, even if you don't believe in heaven or hell. Even if it's with pure intent. If you don't believe in me, burn
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
How can it be logical you ask?
You think only thousands have lived and died throughout history?
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
Ashe... How does that Question follow? You are the one who pulled a number out of thin air and asserted it was true, I did no such thing. You have to explain yourself.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
Do I have to explain to you the demographics on how more have died in history than are alive today? No offense but are you simply going argue that billions have not gone to hell based on your God's "perfect job so far?"
The evidence suggests otherwise
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
And again, you merely ASSUME they are in hell, and assert your claim with no evidence other than inferences. That you don't like what God has done is evident enough, but to claim you are making logical statements when they clearly are not is painful to observe.
If you don't like what God has done, who in his mercy and grace declared at the beginning to take care of the problem by his own hand, then I don't know what else to say to you.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
Oh don't give me the "if you don't liek what God has done' Argument. Thats simply lame
I don't like the excuses you make to hold onto something that was bastardized to begin with. Created to enforce immoral rules, and something that continues to threaten the advancement of human nature if you happen to wrong.
I hate what your religion has to those who simply wanted the best for humanity.
I hate that your religion would even see a silver linining in a nuclear cloud over Israel
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
Also I forgot to add that the estimated number of total dead is 110 billion
AsheIsTheRaven 2 years ago
Great video yet again! I really liked the whole part about Adam and Eve.
I already knew about much of what you had said but it was still great to hear you say it. I was really blessed by your video.
You understand the gospel really well. God bless you brother.
BudManInChrist 2 years ago
Too bad some don't get the blessing, or even desire to acknowledge it.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago