Impressive. I have only one simple question. How many Bud Lights and how many Hienekins did you consume to get to this stage. I obviously have fallen behind in the R&D department. Seriously.. Well done. Get it on the market.
I have one, and can verify the claims. For me, on a 75 degree day, it took about 1/3 of an ounce to boil 16 oz of water. Fuel-sipper should be its name.
THERE IS A LITTLE PULL OFF OF THE FLAME on the can at the start. Later when you put the can back on the burner, there is significant disruption of the flame. It looks like the open core should be plugged to prevent an up draught from pushing the flame out. Cork it. The difference would I think be more evident on the pans. An updraught through the core may be designed in by placing holes just above the wick with a containment ring to again prevent blow off.
I can see what your are refering to and will cork-it and see the difference. As an experiment, I added 1/4" holes just above the wick. To my surprise, air would not pass through from inside the central open chamber. Stove was raised 1/4" during experiment.
Perhaps those holes are equalising the pressure between the core and the flame. If so then one hole of 1/8" just under the pot rim should keep the flame in on the beer can. For the pans, I suggest you file a v-notch3/16" deep. I have seen this with four small notches. If you can keep the flame directed perpendicularly at the pot you should have the greatest heat transfer. Gains over that will be by reflecting radiant heat of the burner and preventing vaporisation of the water.
you need a little more flame height to optimise its use for boiling on the beer can. Water vaporisation (development) is good, eliminate it by installing a thermal pipe inside the pot to encourage a central downward convection of the cooler water. You will need different lengths for full and half full. For small water quantities a donut ring is likely best and could probably be left inside the pot even when using a pipe for a full pot. play with positioning to just eliminate vaporisation.
I expect it is possible to improve efficiency and reduce the boil time to less than four minutes. Four minutes is a good rise time for tea making. A wooden thimble over the lower half of the burner will reduce heat drain to ground improving firing reliability and increasing burn rate. More flame height to bring in sufficient air . Add a mineral wool jacket to the pot and recheck water convection.
I've been quite troubled with ring burners, but for pot boiling they can work well with a guide pipe in the water, it seperates the up from the down currents reducing the drag on each. I've used guide pipes in preventing a electric element from scorching beer wort and to improve agitation to extract hop oils. With the convection pipe installed the hops are pulled all around the copper and time to boil point is reduced.
I meant to say, This burner/pot combo has admirable qualities as a pure boiler. It induces a central down current in the pot, encpourage it by adding pot modifiers and up the flame velocity to reduce boil time.
It wont produce a flame front inside without a gas flow through the holes and on a small external radius you cannot produce the flame pressure to get through a measly 1/4" hole. Once there is a flame over the top of what you are now using as a stand, it should draw from the centre. It it probably simplest to slit the pot stand along the cylinder to get the flame inside and up with central venting. May need a stand off with perhaps only one exhaust area less than 90 deg to keep up gas speed.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you put 15 ml in the burner, came to a boil in 9 minutes, and the burner continued to boil until it reached 12 minutes? That means it took 11.25 ml of fuel to boil 473 ml (2 cups). 156kJ are required to raise the temp of water from 21C to100C. 11.25ml x 17.9 kJ/ml = 202 kJ used. 156/202= 77%. That's unusual for a burner of this type. Typical fluctuates around 60%. Jetboil and the MSR heat transfer device capture 1/2 of that 40% normally lost making 80%.
I was surprised at the results myself. Those figures were gotten using the stove uder a heineken pot. Using a regular aluminum 5" dia/2 cup pot didn't have the same results. The stove is still under test and tweeking. My testing was done under optimum conditions(kitchen) 70 degree starting temp for the water and 70 degree room temp. No air movement what so ever around the stove. Tests this past week show there is a diff in btu's of diff brands of denat alcohol same stove diff results interesting
Denatured alcohol can be denatured in various ways, so unless you specifically look at the MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet online (for the brand name product), you never know what you're going to get. SLX is 50-50 methanol and ethanol. HEET in the yellow bottle is 99% methanol. HEET in te red bottle is 99% isopropyl with fuel injector cleaner.
This shape is what I have been looking for over a long time now.
Ive been trying to find a vessel that I can make a "Jet Engine" type stove, where the jets are on the inside, and the intake air is drawn up through the middle.
Hi Bill, I used a compression die. Kinda like a grommet tool turned inside out. The die is placed on top of the topless bottle and compressed with a very large mechanical bottle jack. Sounds kinda funny to use a "bottle Jack" to compress a bottle =)
Great stove! Do you have a build video of it?
Thanks, David
scdave100 3 months ago
@scdave100 Thank you for the compliment. I don't have a build video for it.
zellph 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hello, Zelph
The inner tube, 10mm from the top down position, some of the vent holes open.
Now the center of the pot can be heated to boiling with good fuel economy faster.
5mm lift up the whole, the chimney effect can be expected.
The two improvements, thermal efficiency can be improved considerably. by JSB (dutro76)
dutro76 1 year ago
The inner tube, 10mm from the top down position, some of the vent holes open.
Now the center of the pot can be heated to boiling with good fuel economy faster.
5mm lift up the whole, the chimney effect can be expected.
The two improvements, thermal efficiency can be improved considerably. by JSB (dutro76)
dutro76 1 year ago
Comment removed
dutro76 1 year ago
Impressive. I have only one simple question. How many Bud Lights and how many Hienekins did you consume to get to this stage. I obviously have fallen behind in the R&D department. Seriously.. Well done. Get it on the market.
sstaiga 1 year ago
the design fundamental is excellent , how to improve the fuel efficiency ?
0900pp 1 year ago
I have one, and can verify the claims. For me, on a 75 degree day, it took about 1/3 of an ounce to boil 16 oz of water. Fuel-sipper should be its name.
Jollyprez 1 year ago
@Jollyprez Thank you for your confirming comment. I like your choice of name....."Fuel-Sipper"
zellph 1 year ago
THERE IS A LITTLE PULL OFF OF THE FLAME on the can at the start. Later when you put the can back on the burner, there is significant disruption of the flame. It looks like the open core should be plugged to prevent an up draught from pushing the flame out. Cork it. The difference would I think be more evident on the pans. An updraught through the core may be designed in by placing holes just above the wick with a containment ring to again prevent blow off.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
I can see what your are refering to and will cork-it and see the difference. As an experiment, I added 1/4" holes just above the wick. To my surprise, air would not pass through from inside the central open chamber. Stove was raised 1/4" during experiment.
zellph 2 years ago
Perhaps those holes are equalising the pressure between the core and the flame. If so then one hole of 1/8" just under the pot rim should keep the flame in on the beer can. For the pans, I suggest you file a v-notch3/16" deep. I have seen this with four small notches. If you can keep the flame directed perpendicularly at the pot you should have the greatest heat transfer. Gains over that will be by reflecting radiant heat of the burner and preventing vaporisation of the water.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
you need a little more flame height to optimise its use for boiling on the beer can. Water vaporisation (development) is good, eliminate it by installing a thermal pipe inside the pot to encourage a central downward convection of the cooler water. You will need different lengths for full and half full. For small water quantities a donut ring is likely best and could probably be left inside the pot even when using a pipe for a full pot. play with positioning to just eliminate vaporisation.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
I expect it is possible to improve efficiency and reduce the boil time to less than four minutes. Four minutes is a good rise time for tea making. A wooden thimble over the lower half of the burner will reduce heat drain to ground improving firing reliability and increasing burn rate. More flame height to bring in sufficient air . Add a mineral wool jacket to the pot and recheck water convection.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
I've been quite troubled with ring burners, but for pot boiling they can work well with a guide pipe in the water, it seperates the up from the down currents reducing the drag on each. I've used guide pipes in preventing a electric element from scorching beer wort and to improve agitation to extract hop oils. With the convection pipe installed the hops are pulled all around the copper and time to boil point is reduced.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
I meant to say, This burner/pot combo has admirable qualities as a pure boiler. It induces a central down current in the pot, encpourage it by adding pot modifiers and up the flame velocity to reduce boil time.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
It wont produce a flame front inside without a gas flow through the holes and on a small external radius you cannot produce the flame pressure to get through a measly 1/4" hole. Once there is a flame over the top of what you are now using as a stand, it should draw from the centre. It it probably simplest to slit the pot stand along the cylinder to get the flame inside and up with central venting. May need a stand off with perhaps only one exhaust area less than 90 deg to keep up gas speed.
TheBeebopper 2 years ago
If I'm understanding you correctly, you put 15 ml in the burner, came to a boil in 9 minutes, and the burner continued to boil until it reached 12 minutes? That means it took 11.25 ml of fuel to boil 473 ml (2 cups). 156kJ are required to raise the temp of water from 21C to100C. 11.25ml x 17.9 kJ/ml = 202 kJ used. 156/202= 77%. That's unusual for a burner of this type. Typical fluctuates around 60%. Jetboil and the MSR heat transfer device capture 1/2 of that 40% normally lost making 80%.
BrokenAeroVT 2 years ago
I was surprised at the results myself. Those figures were gotten using the stove uder a heineken pot. Using a regular aluminum 5" dia/2 cup pot didn't have the same results. The stove is still under test and tweeking. My testing was done under optimum conditions(kitchen) 70 degree starting temp for the water and 70 degree room temp. No air movement what so ever around the stove. Tests this past week show there is a diff in btu's of diff brands of denat alcohol same stove diff results interesting
zellph 2 years ago
Denatured alcohol can be denatured in various ways, so unless you specifically look at the MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet online (for the brand name product), you never know what you're going to get. SLX is 50-50 methanol and ethanol. HEET in the yellow bottle is 99% methanol. HEET in te red bottle is 99% isopropyl with fuel injector cleaner.
BrokenAeroVT 2 years ago
awesome design!!
aokspage 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well now that one i like now just make it simmer and you got tinny beat.
RJBURG 2 years ago
This shape is what I have been looking for over a long time now.
Ive been trying to find a vessel that I can make a "Jet Engine" type stove, where the jets are on the inside, and the intake air is drawn up through the middle.
How did you turn that bottle in on itself?
Bill
MrBillTroop73 2 years ago
Hi Bill, I used a compression die. Kinda like a grommet tool turned inside out. The die is placed on top of the topless bottle and compressed with a very large mechanical bottle jack. Sounds kinda funny to use a "bottle Jack" to compress a bottle =)
zellph 2 years ago
Is the die something specially made. or is there some "off the shelf" part I could use?
Bill
MrBillTroop73 2 years ago
Special made, turned on a lathe.
zellph 2 years ago