The hobbyist, and the smaller shop weldor believe your Miller to be a "big" welder, but it is not. Working on large construction sites, where you pull yards cabling, and have to encounter arc blow due to the superstructure, requires a helluva lot more amperage than this. It's not uncommon to push well over 300 amps to get what would normally be acceptable at 90-120 amps for 7018, or 5P, 6010. (Yes, it also depends upon rod diameter too.) And such size require welders input typically 440V.
@chkrat22 I know, and i have hooked up plenty of those 480v 3 phase welders in my time as an electrician. And you are absolutely right, mine is just a baby when compared to those 'big job' welders!
@thecatsupdog The only problem with your postulate is first off I am an Electrical engineer with many years experience in the field as an electrician before receiving my EE. I have used a virtual plethora of different types and sizes of welders. What I have found is all of them-- hobart, lincoln, & john deere buzz box have a low duty rating and they are all nearly impossible to strike an ark with, unless you turn it up way higher than what is recommended for the rod you are using.
The Stickmate LX which he shows in this video can weld at 100% duty cycle at 100 amps, Of course a bigger welder with a larger transformer will have a higher duty cycle.
@beast6228 The only problem with the postulate you put forth is at best, by the duty rating it would be a little over 50% duty cycle at 100 amps. You cut the amperage by a little more than half, you would achieve a resultant duty cycle of 56.25% a long way off from your erroneous 100% figure you have stated here bud. And by the way it might help to know I am an electrical engineer, I play around with these numbers just for fun!
@beast6228 The duty cycle of any welder is a linear relationship. Therefore the only way to achieve a 100% duty cycle with this hobart would be to take it down all the way to abt its lowest setting. At 50 amps it would only have roughly a little over a 75% duty rating, which would mean to achieve 100% it would have to be taken down below 25 Amps. Go ahead and try to weld with one continuously at 100 amps and you will melt the darn thing down!
Hey I have that same Hobart welder, It was gift from my wife and I love it, I'm only a backyard welder so I have never needed a monster welder like that miller. but I have done some amazing things with my hobart.
@nekbiodieselworks I only needed one that struck an arc when it was supposed to, and not requite jacking the amperage up so high you could not even jump over it. For instance to strike an arc with my hobart, lincoln, or jodn deere welder with a 3/32 7018 required like 120 amps, where as my miller strikes them just fine at 85-90 like they ALL should do but dont
...Well...this is really not a good comparison...you want to weld high current all the time...buy a bigger welder...besides...pretty hard to get more than 30-40% arc time with stick anyway... Hobart, Miller, Lincoln...Esab...all are good...just stay away from the China...and Harbor Fright...
@dougspair I would agree with the staying away from china, but I beg to differ with u as in my experience the only two welders worth owing you have listed are miller and esab in my opinion
@thewelderdude I tried it both ways, I am an electrical engineer after all, the miller is just far superior to the hobart. It weighs tons more, it is a far better welder than that hobart piece of crap. I actually paid far less for the miller than i did for the hobart, but again there is no comparison between the two
Just how much does that miller two fifty twin weigh compared to the stickmate? also, i doubt that you could buy a brand new miller tow fifty for the price of a brand new stickmate.
the video should be labeled expensive welder vs cheaper welder.
@thewelderdude Yes..this comparison is meaningless....I have a P&H 400/400 AC/DC TIG/Stick machine...made in 1956...still works as good as the newest stuff...heavy though..must weight 800-900 pounds...self-contained water tank/cooler..8" wheels...room on back for Two 330 CF cylinders...output for Two watercooled TIG torches...a 225 amp and a 400...
@whackitov of course they do, juz like a water cooled pc can run faster than a non-water cooled 1 does dude. And I am well aware of this fact cuz I am an ibew journeyman as well as an electrical engineer. The purpose of this video was 2 simply show every1 wut the difference in a new cheap one and an old good one culd do.
@mdinc20 It is a great welder, especially for someone trying to learn how to weld. My buddy just last nite used it to weld up something which was very very thin but it did a great job for that as well.
Hobart sucks all around, Im on a job where they got a "deal" on hobart rods, and they flake and chip if you so much as look at them. Likewise, no one will use the H'bart machine, even if we have to wait for a Lincoln.
6 guage feed 100 foot long, ground is 1ga 40ft electrode is 1 ga 60 ft i bought a lincon tombstone last week that im going to switch over to. it will run at whatever setting 100% it is almost 50 years old then i can run dc @ 200+ amps
I have a 30 year old lincoln ac 225s and it weighs about 100 lbs more then the new buzz boxes. I have never had a problem striking the arc, but the arc was much harder to strike with a new ac 225.
@tbndeereman75 Yes, that is basically the difference between 1 that has copper windings vs aluminum windings. All welders made these days unless its commercial use aluminum to keep the cost of the machine cheaper for the manufacturer. And I would say that if u looked at the duty rating of both machines, the newer 1 is much lower than the older one.
I wasn't welding 50 years ago, but the styling on your old Miller looks like it's older then 30, looks more like something from about 40-50 years ago. Something like the early 1960's or late 1950's? Either way, old as dirt. Pretty impressive it's still working. But then Miller is the way to go. And yes, Hobart is a Miller Company. Kind of like Cheverolet and GMC.
I know nothing about Hobarts after 1985, but I can tell you thats no inverter. Its got a crank and a high and low tap, its a transformer. And if you paid less than $4000 grand for it, its definitely not an inverter. And as for inverters being hard to strike an arc, they are awesome, between 100 and 200 amps, a 350 amp inverter will strike an arc like a 500 amp transformer. The reason the Hobart is hard to strike is because its cheap. The windings are thinner and the core is smaller.
@KurtisWM I know that the hobart is an inverter machine, thus the reason I made the video-- to show everyone the difference between an inverter machine and one with actual coils of wire. Also, that is why I titled the video "Good Welder vs Cheap Welder"
@toddyboy26 Yes, I am well aware of this fact. I just made this video to show everyone the difference between a sub-standard welder and one that is built right.
I don't buy cheap cause I want to, I buy cheap cause that's what I can afford for hobby use. My little Harbor Freight with a very low duty cycle was cutting out on me so I put a fan inside blowing on the transformer. I haven't had it trip the overheat thermostat since.
@lectricgenius Why do you say only a little? It helped a whole lot. The cooler it runs, the better. The duty cycle went from 10% to an my estimate of 50%. Of course it would never do for professional use, but for a hobbyist on an occasional weld it's great.
ive got a onan motor on my miller and welds great when its cool out but when she gets warm after about an hour of use she quits runnin wait 45 mins starts right back up again oils full checked everything i could dont know whats wrong any info would be appreciated thank you
@redbulljustice99 It sounds to me like the coil could be defective. But I am not sure since I am not there to troubleshoot the darn thing. Try and replace the coil and see what happens.
I have a Clarke (cheap) welder and one thing I found is that sometimes I was getting fantastic penetration. Other times hardly any at all. I realized that the times of poor penetration were times when it was very hot outside. The conductivity of the internal coils just drops like a rock and that little fan does next to nothing. Fine for little jobs, but go with Lincoln or Miller for the big jobs.
@RedPillSurvival Yes, you are definitely correct, the clarke is a cheap welder. It is interesting to me that you are only having problems with it when it is hot outside. It could possibly be related to the properties of copper itself-- i.e. when its hot it is not nearly as conductive when it's not. Other than that i can't think of any reason why it would do what you say.
@RedPillSurvival Yeah, if its a newer welder it's aluminum for sure. That only makes it more susceptible to the properties of heat lowering the resistive properties of the wire.
@lectricgenius Do you have any idea of the % cost increase there is on same hobby/light duty welder would be if wired with copper vs Aluminum? I'm new to welding and am looking to buy one in the near future and trying to educate myself in the mean time. Until I read it in these comments, I never thought of the AL vs CU difference. I don't understand why the Made in China low cost welders don't have better coiling systems, considering the DS improvement.
@rlewis1946 I am assuming here, because I really have no idea if you are comparing apples to apples (same duty cycle for both machines, same amperage and all of that). But if I had to take a guess I would have to say it would be abt 40% cheaper or so for the aluminum machine, based off copper and aluminum prices themselves.
It will strike an arc, but you have to turn it up about 50% higher than the recommended settings. When you do that, when ever you burn a rod out, it is glowing red hot. I've never had to turn a welder up so high that it makes the rod red hot.
your welder and my dialarc HF are similar, even year-wise. mine's a little bigger (500 lbs) and 300 amps max, and they're both 'whiteface' machines. when I first got it, a few months back on ebay, and turned it on, the fan ALONE made me say "WHOA! this is gonna be REAL exciting!" it made WAY more wind than my old miller thunderbolt. and, yeah, it -always- strikes an arc, even with moist rods, or rusty steel, even with 6013, in north florida
Yeah, it's a helluva welder! I bought it on ebay and had to travel to Philadelphia to pick it up. Made a trip out of it, visited the historic sites while there. Honestly, I do not know why anyone would buy a little freakin "buzz boxes" when these are so much better.
I'm not an expert, just want to know: What do you mean by "strike an arc"
The Hobart has less duty cycle, I have read it means you have to pause your work more frequently to let the machine rest, but besides this little obstacle, how about the quality of the weld of the Hobart compared to your Miller?
@janovewaldner1 Yes, basically it means you have to "pause" your work. But in actuality what it means is the welder is not even half the welder than mine is. It makes a much better weld than the Hobart. The bottom line, and the reason I made this video, is that you have to pay attention to little details such as the duty cycle, etc. And by the way, I am an electrical engineer, so I know all about this stuff.
@lectricgenius Oh, I forgot to answer your first question. Striking an ark means exactly that. Whenever you start to weld, you must first start out by striking an arc. That is where the hobart has trouble. Basically, with the miller the arc starts right away and very easily. The hobart is a different story. I used to get all sorts of "false starts" with it; usually ending up with a stuck rod (stuck to the metal I was welding). The miller has never done this to me.
The hobbyist, and the smaller shop weldor believe your Miller to be a "big" welder, but it is not. Working on large construction sites, where you pull yards cabling, and have to encounter arc blow due to the superstructure, requires a helluva lot more amperage than this. It's not uncommon to push well over 300 amps to get what would normally be acceptable at 90-120 amps for 7018, or 5P, 6010. (Yes, it also depends upon rod diameter too.) And such size require welders input typically 440V.
chkrat22 6 days ago
@chkrat22 I know, and i have hooked up plenty of those 480v 3 phase welders in my time as an electrician. And you are absolutely right, mine is just a baby when compared to those 'big job' welders!
lectricgenius 5 days ago
The old one probably has a better ground clamp. Duty cycle is not the end all be all.
thecatsupdog 1 week ago
@thecatsupdog The only problem with your postulate is first off I am an Electrical engineer with many years experience in the field as an electrician before receiving my EE. I have used a virtual plethora of different types and sizes of welders. What I have found is all of them-- hobart, lincoln, & john deere buzz box have a low duty rating and they are all nearly impossible to strike an ark with, unless you turn it up way higher than what is recommended for the rod you are using.
lectricgenius 1 week ago
The Stickmate LX which he shows in this video can weld at 100% duty cycle at 100 amps, Of course a bigger welder with a larger transformer will have a higher duty cycle.
beast6228 3 weeks ago
@beast6228 The only problem with the postulate you put forth is at best, by the duty rating it would be a little over 50% duty cycle at 100 amps. You cut the amperage by a little more than half, you would achieve a resultant duty cycle of 56.25% a long way off from your erroneous 100% figure you have stated here bud. And by the way it might help to know I am an electrical engineer, I play around with these numbers just for fun!
lectricgenius 1 week ago
@lectricgenius Download the manual for these welders, they specifically state that they can achieve 100% duty cycle at the proper amperes.
beast6228 1 week ago
@beast6228 The duty cycle of any welder is a linear relationship. Therefore the only way to achieve a 100% duty cycle with this hobart would be to take it down all the way to abt its lowest setting. At 50 amps it would only have roughly a little over a 75% duty rating, which would mean to achieve 100% it would have to be taken down below 25 Amps. Go ahead and try to weld with one continuously at 100 amps and you will melt the darn thing down!
lectricgenius 1 week ago
Hey I have that same Hobart welder, It was gift from my wife and I love it, I'm only a backyard welder so I have never needed a monster welder like that miller. but I have done some amazing things with my hobart.
nekbiodieselworks 2 months ago
@nekbiodieselworks I only needed one that struck an arc when it was supposed to, and not requite jacking the amperage up so high you could not even jump over it. For instance to strike an arc with my hobart, lincoln, or jodn deere welder with a 3/32 7018 required like 120 amps, where as my miller strikes them just fine at 85-90 like they ALL should do but dont
lectricgenius 1 week ago
...Well...this is really not a good comparison...you want to weld high current all the time...buy a bigger welder...besides...pretty hard to get more than 30-40% arc time with stick anyway... Hobart, Miller, Lincoln...Esab...all are good...just stay away from the China...and Harbor Fright...
dougspair 2 months ago
@dougspair I would agree with the staying away from china, but I beg to differ with u as in my experience the only two welders worth owing you have listed are miller and esab in my opinion
lectricgenius 1 week ago
oh, and as for striking the arc, are you comparing the miller to the hobart on the ac setting or on the dc setting since the hobart is ac only?
thewelderdude 2 months ago
@thewelderdude I tried it both ways, I am an electrical engineer after all, the miller is just far superior to the hobart. It weighs tons more, it is a far better welder than that hobart piece of crap. I actually paid far less for the miller than i did for the hobart, but again there is no comparison between the two
lectricgenius 2 months ago
@lectricgenius I'll defently agree that the miller is better than the hobart in this case and would love to have that beast of a miller in my garage.
thewelderdude 2 months ago
Just how much does that miller two fifty twin weigh compared to the stickmate? also, i doubt that you could buy a brand new miller tow fifty for the price of a brand new stickmate.
the video should be labeled expensive welder vs cheaper welder.
thewelderdude 2 months ago
@thewelderdude Yes..this comparison is meaningless....I have a P&H 400/400 AC/DC TIG/Stick machine...made in 1956...still works as good as the newest stuff...heavy though..must weight 800-900 pounds...self-contained water tank/cooler..8" wheels...room on back for Two 330 CF cylinders...output for Two watercooled TIG torches...a 225 amp and a 400...
dougspair 2 months ago
oil cooled welders have a better duty cycle than both those machines
whackitov 3 months ago
@whackitov of course they do, juz like a water cooled pc can run faster than a non-water cooled 1 does dude. And I am well aware of this fact cuz I am an ibew journeyman as well as an electrical engineer. The purpose of this video was 2 simply show every1 wut the difference in a new cheap one and an old good one culd do.
lectricgenius 3 months ago
i learned how to weld on that same miller welder in high school of 07- 09
mdinc20 3 months ago
@mdinc20 It is a great welder, especially for someone trying to learn how to weld. My buddy just last nite used it to weld up something which was very very thin but it did a great job for that as well.
lectricgenius 3 months ago
like i said
iLimet 4 months ago
If your poor you mine as well bought a welder for 200 bucks if your a teen it will get the shit done.
josh666675 5 months ago
Hobart sucks all around, Im on a job where they got a "deal" on hobart rods, and they flake and chip if you so much as look at them. Likewise, no one will use the H'bart machine, even if we have to wait for a Lincoln.
Gord488 7 months ago
@Gord488 Hobart and Miller are made by the same people.
yoman258 6 months ago
@yoman258 ok, and?
Gord488 6 months ago
it is an idealarc 250
depsterboy 8 months ago
6 guage feed 100 foot long, ground is 1ga 40ft electrode is 1 ga 60 ft i bought a lincon tombstone last week that im going to switch over to. it will run at whatever setting 100% it is almost 50 years old then i can run dc @ 200+ amps
depsterboy 8 months ago
@depsterboy mine requires #2 copper for the feeds dude
lectricgenius 8 months ago
@lectricgenius the plug on the welder is 6
depsterboy 8 months ago
@depsterboy thats abt what mine is. ibelieve up goes as high as 325 r sum shit like that
lectricgenius 8 months ago
i got that same hobart, but mine also does dc. ive welded @ 160 dc for 6 straight hours (except to change rod) several times with no problems
depsterboy 8 months ago
@depsterboy Well that was way over the duty rating of ur machine dude. Were u welding on dc or ac when u did this?
lectricgenius 8 months ago
@lectricgenius dc, 1 guage cables and a fan blowing on it, never had an issue
depsterboy 8 months ago
@depsterboy u mean 1 ga cable feeding the welder?
lectricgenius 8 months ago
I have a 30 year old lincoln ac 225s and it weighs about 100 lbs more then the new buzz boxes. I have never had a problem striking the arc, but the arc was much harder to strike with a new ac 225.
tbndeereman75 8 months ago
@tbndeereman75 Yes, that is basically the difference between 1 that has copper windings vs aluminum windings. All welders made these days unless its commercial use aluminum to keep the cost of the machine cheaper for the manufacturer. And I would say that if u looked at the duty rating of both machines, the newer 1 is much lower than the older one.
lectricgenius 8 months ago
I think when I looked it up, it was made in the 70's-- early 70's at that.
lectricgenius 9 months ago
I wasn't welding 50 years ago, but the styling on your old Miller looks like it's older then 30, looks more like something from about 40-50 years ago. Something like the early 1960's or late 1950's? Either way, old as dirt. Pretty impressive it's still working. But then Miller is the way to go. And yes, Hobart is a Miller Company. Kind of like Cheverolet and GMC.
Delticola 9 months ago
well any thing is better than the cheap 90 amp harbor freight welder ,lol
windoes98se 10 months ago
@windoes98se I know what u mean. Cheap welders sure do suck
lectricgenius 10 months ago
@lectricgenius hey cheap welders are all i can afford
TheInfotwins 9 months ago
I know nothing about Hobarts after 1985, but I can tell you thats no inverter. Its got a crank and a high and low tap, its a transformer. And if you paid less than $4000 grand for it, its definitely not an inverter. And as for inverters being hard to strike an arc, they are awesome, between 100 and 200 amps, a 350 amp inverter will strike an arc like a 500 amp transformer. The reason the Hobart is hard to strike is because its cheap. The windings are thinner and the core is smaller.
bman041 1 year ago
@bman041 I definitely agree with you on it being cheap.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
the hobart is a inverter machine, thats why its harder to strike your arc.
KurtisWM 1 year ago
@KurtisWM I know that the hobart is an inverter machine, thus the reason I made the video-- to show everyone the difference between an inverter machine and one with actual coils of wire. Also, that is why I titled the video "Good Welder vs Cheap Welder"
lectricgenius 1 year ago
@KurtisWM understood, and the difference between the two are night an day.
KurtisWM 1 year ago
@KurtisWM Exactly, you don't have to try to sell me on that.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
Hobart/Miller same welders same company Just FYI
toddyboy26 1 year ago 8
@toddyboy26 Yes, I am well aware of this fact. I just made this video to show everyone the difference between a sub-standard welder and one that is built right.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
@toddyboy26 Yep I open the Hobart 165i and the circuit card or mother board (?) has a miller decal.
1Rectified 1 month ago
Yeah, that would be an expensive solution. I just used a $2 surplus fan and got a big boost in usability.
breezebro 1 year ago
I don't buy cheap cause I want to, I buy cheap cause that's what I can afford for hobby use. My little Harbor Freight with a very low duty cycle was cutting out on me so I put a fan inside blowing on the transformer. I haven't had it trip the overheat thermostat since.
breezebro 1 year ago
@breezebro Yeah, I would say that a "little" added cooling would help somewhat.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
@lectricgenius Why do you say only a little? It helped a whole lot. The cooler it runs, the better. The duty cycle went from 10% to an my estimate of 50%. Of course it would never do for professional use, but for a hobbyist on an occasional weld it's great.
breezebro 1 year ago
@breezebro Yes, now if you really want to help it out, you could make a liquid cooler for it, and potentially get a 100% duty cycle out of it.
lectricgenius 1 year ago 3
ive got a onan motor on my miller and welds great when its cool out but when she gets warm after about an hour of use she quits runnin wait 45 mins starts right back up again oils full checked everything i could dont know whats wrong any info would be appreciated thank you
redbulljustice99 1 year ago
@redbulljustice99 It sounds to me like the coil could be defective. But I am not sure since I am not there to troubleshoot the darn thing. Try and replace the coil and see what happens.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
I have a Clarke (cheap) welder and one thing I found is that sometimes I was getting fantastic penetration. Other times hardly any at all. I realized that the times of poor penetration were times when it was very hot outside. The conductivity of the internal coils just drops like a rock and that little fan does next to nothing. Fine for little jobs, but go with Lincoln or Miller for the big jobs.
RedPillSurvival 1 year ago
@RedPillSurvival Yes, you are definitely correct, the clarke is a cheap welder. It is interesting to me that you are only having problems with it when it is hot outside. It could possibly be related to the properties of copper itself-- i.e. when its hot it is not nearly as conductive when it's not. Other than that i can't think of any reason why it would do what you say.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
@lectricgenius That's exactly what I was thinking. I heard that Hobart uses aluminum wound coils. Maybe the same for Clarke. Not sure.
RedPillSurvival 1 year ago
@RedPillSurvival Yeah, if its a newer welder it's aluminum for sure. That only makes it more susceptible to the properties of heat lowering the resistive properties of the wire.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
@lectricgenius Do you have any idea of the % cost increase there is on same hobby/light duty welder would be if wired with copper vs Aluminum? I'm new to welding and am looking to buy one in the near future and trying to educate myself in the mean time. Until I read it in these comments, I never thought of the AL vs CU difference. I don't understand why the Made in China low cost welders don't have better coiling systems, considering the DS improvement.
Roy Lewis Atlanta, Georgia USA
rlewis1946 6 months ago
@rlewis1946 I am assuming here, because I really have no idea if you are comparing apples to apples (same duty cycle for both machines, same amperage and all of that). But if I had to take a guess I would have to say it would be abt 40% cheaper or so for the aluminum machine, based off copper and aluminum prices themselves.
lectricgenius 6 months ago
Good info and a very good quality video,a lot of folks dont pay any attention to what the duty cycle is.
MrJoseph1157 2 years ago
Your absolutely right! I never paid any attention to it either!
lectricgenius 2 years ago
i just got that same hobart stickmate lx, it seems to strike an ark fine to me
giter1234 2 years ago
It will strike an arc, but you have to turn it up about 50% higher than the recommended settings. When you do that, when ever you burn a rod out, it is glowing red hot. I've never had to turn a welder up so high that it makes the rod red hot.
lectricgenius 2 years ago
your welder and my dialarc HF are similar, even year-wise. mine's a little bigger (500 lbs) and 300 amps max, and they're both 'whiteface' machines. when I first got it, a few months back on ebay, and turned it on, the fan ALONE made me say "WHOA! this is gonna be REAL exciting!" it made WAY more wind than my old miller thunderbolt. and, yeah, it -always- strikes an arc, even with moist rods, or rusty steel, even with 6013, in north florida
excellent video, lectric :-) nice goin' !
hardwares1 2 years ago
Yeah, it's a helluva welder! I bought it on ebay and had to travel to Philadelphia to pick it up. Made a trip out of it, visited the historic sites while there. Honestly, I do not know why anyone would buy a little freakin "buzz boxes" when these are so much better.
Thanks for the compliment!
lectricgenius 2 years ago
I'm not an expert, just want to know: What do you mean by "strike an arc"
The Hobart has less duty cycle, I have read it means you have to pause your work more frequently to let the machine rest, but besides this little obstacle, how about the quality of the weld of the Hobart compared to your Miller?
janovewaldner1 2 years ago
@janovewaldner1 Yes, basically it means you have to "pause" your work. But in actuality what it means is the welder is not even half the welder than mine is. It makes a much better weld than the Hobart. The bottom line, and the reason I made this video, is that you have to pay attention to little details such as the duty cycle, etc. And by the way, I am an electrical engineer, so I know all about this stuff.
lectricgenius 1 year ago
@lectricgenius Oh, I forgot to answer your first question. Striking an ark means exactly that. Whenever you start to weld, you must first start out by striking an arc. That is where the hobart has trouble. Basically, with the miller the arc starts right away and very easily. The hobart is a different story. I used to get all sorts of "false starts" with it; usually ending up with a stuck rod (stuck to the metal I was welding). The miller has never done this to me.
lectricgenius 1 year ago