@antinatalism1 Thanks, antinatalism1. Been thinking about this some more and it still occurs to me that your logic points to suicide as the most rational choice. I say this because you will inevitably die someday and if you do not control it, you are opening up the possibility of an extremely horrible and painful death rather than a relatively quick and painless one. Also, if you become sick or disabled you may become a burden to friends and family. (continued)
@Barklord The fact that some people may mourn your loss is due to their irrational view that you should be alive. In fact, they should see the obvious fact that you are ending the possibility of suffering. I truly think that your logic points to the conclusion that you should promote suicide in everyday conversation and logical argument. To do otherwise is to procrastinate the end of suffering. If you commit suicide, and explain the logic before hand, you would not impose it on anyone. (more)
@Barklord If this causes anyone any sadness they are also free to escape in the same manner if it is unbearable. I'm sure there are some quick and painless ways to die under your own control rather than irrationally letting things happen unexpectedly. This really does seem to be the logic of your argument here.
I hope you decide to choose a happy, contented life. Even if beauty and love appear irrational to you.
I was better off before being born. I was in heaven with my friends and then mommy and daddy did a nasty, and suddenly "poof" here I am, stuck in a slow moving clump of matter, that excretes poop and pee and other vile things, and now I have an urge to do nastiness to, but I resist because I don't wanna interrupt my friends party in heaven, they will be mad at me.
@Barklord that picture of the archetype erosphanes is yet another synchronicity (which seem lately to be increasing) actually i was going to request that you make a video about that exact picture !! because the perennial philosophies are where i was schooled (before i was born here).
if the universal matrix is made out of archetypical programs, like erosphanes, then his icon would contain a message that is universal. that is if we can decode it correctly. the snake wrapped around him = DNA??
David Benatar is not only a misanthropist but arguably a racist as well. He opposes affirmative action programs in (now get this) post apartheid South Africa. He is against suffering? Bullshit. Then why does he support corporeal punishment for children? I'm not a bit surprised that the hateful Benatar is a hero to YouTube misanthropists.
The position on suffering certainly conflicts with corporal punishment and I was surprised Benatar would lend any support to it. I'm reading a paper I found online that says it's written by him with his arguments and what he's going after is the position that all corporal punishment be abolished, in particular, mild and infrequent corporal punishment by parents, teachers, onto children. He probably holds a utilitarian position that a little suffering now prevents a greater suffering later.
@DanaGarrett I have to say now that I've read some of what Benatar has said on affirmative action and corporal punishment I get the feeling you have something against the man. Clearly his positions and the way you present them "opposes affirmative action programs" and "support corporeal punishment for children" conflict because stating it in the way you have makes no distintion. It's Moral Philosophy not a bumper sticker.
@DanaGarrett Look its the hateful Dana Garrett who supports George Bush's Wars and endless sentient suffering. Dana Garrett is for human life. Bullshit. Why doe she support suffering? Not a bit surprised that cowards for the status quo support Dana Garret the philosopher for the apathetic.
@antinatalism1 It's perfectly OK to ineptly attempt to parody my comments, but you really should not libel me in the process. You write, "Look its the hateful Dana Garrett who supports George Bush's Wars...." Excuse me? I was out protesting those wars, writing against them, helping to pressure members of government to stop them during a period of time that many of you misanthropists were mostly talking to one another & filling your heads with delusions about humanity volunteering to off itself.
well said my friend, I feel that even if there is a flicker of good to be had, a moment of joy, a second of love; then all the suffering means nothing, its just the way of things.
"We have seen that there is room for reasonable people to disagree about the value of corporal punishment in rearing and educating a child. Contrary to the views of those who oppose all physical punishment, it is not implausible to think that such punishment, if inflicted under the appropriate conditions, might do some good. If corporal punishment does indeed have some benefit, then this would be lost if the practice were abandoned. From the perspective of public policy...
...prohibiting corporal punishment would constitute a serious interference with the liberty interests of those parents who judge the possibility of corporal punishment to benefit their children. Such liberty interests would be overridable if there were compelling evidence of the harmfulness of corporal punishment, but the inconclusive data we currently have provide no such grounds."
@DiwataMan So, judging by this, pain and suffering much more negotiable and nuanced than many of the youtube antinatalists would like to assert. I also liked pyrrho314's position that certain forms of chosen suffering are very healthy when they result from strenuous effort toward a goal.
@DiwataMan "the liberty interests of those parents" Fascinating standard for a utilitarian. Some people have a liberty interest to inflict physical suffering on other people? In my view, he is rationalizing child abuse. But I am not surprised. I find more and more that many anti-natalists have particular groups, as well as humanity in general, that they wish to prey upon.
@DiwataMan There are actually a good many highly successful alternatives to corporal punishment...and they are invariably far more effective, in the long run, in producing well balanced and fair minded people who typically prefer reason as a resort to conflict.
@TheMercilessEye Hey you don't have to tell me, lol, I take the position that Benatar goes against, please see my video with a link to his paper if you like.
@DiwataMan Actually, BY FAR most credible studies show that corporeal punishment does harm children in the long term. Some studies find that the effect is negligible. I'm sure Benatar knows that, but he is leaving a misleading impression about it. So, then, even if the the long-term effect is negligible, the short-term effect is suffering from the beatings. Yet he's for it. So much for his vaunted concern about human suffering.
read a book when i was little called 'the crack in the cosmic egg'
Cashify 9 months ago
@Cashify before you yolked yourself to God and scrambled your brain?
zzzziiiiiiiiiinnnggg !! !!
Barklord 8 months ago
@Barklord before I was a full grown Om. I was a mere om-lette.
Cashify 8 months ago
he he=he/her
f417h2GRACE 8 months ago
appreciated your thinking here barklord
antinatalism1 9 months ago
@antinatalism1 Thanks, antinatalism1. Been thinking about this some more and it still occurs to me that your logic points to suicide as the most rational choice. I say this because you will inevitably die someday and if you do not control it, you are opening up the possibility of an extremely horrible and painful death rather than a relatively quick and painless one. Also, if you become sick or disabled you may become a burden to friends and family. (continued)
Barklord 8 months ago
@Barklord The fact that some people may mourn your loss is due to their irrational view that you should be alive. In fact, they should see the obvious fact that you are ending the possibility of suffering. I truly think that your logic points to the conclusion that you should promote suicide in everyday conversation and logical argument. To do otherwise is to procrastinate the end of suffering. If you commit suicide, and explain the logic before hand, you would not impose it on anyone. (more)
Barklord 8 months ago
@Barklord If this causes anyone any sadness they are also free to escape in the same manner if it is unbearable. I'm sure there are some quick and painless ways to die under your own control rather than irrationally letting things happen unexpectedly. This really does seem to be the logic of your argument here.
I hope you decide to choose a happy, contented life. Even if beauty and love appear irrational to you.
Barklord 8 months ago
@Barklord I see that logic using the individual as an example for life as a whole
antinatalism1 8 months ago
I was better off before being born. I was in heaven with my friends and then mommy and daddy did a nasty, and suddenly "poof" here I am, stuck in a slow moving clump of matter, that excretes poop and pee and other vile things, and now I have an urge to do nastiness to, but I resist because I don't wanna interrupt my friends party in heaven, they will be mad at me.
Elenkhos 9 months ago
@Elenkhos lol. Clearly you are a Gnostic but I cannot determine the sect. Valentinian?
Barklord 9 months ago
@Barklord I would say Gnostic, I have studied Valentinian gnosticism, but I'm actually I'm a Vedic scholar, Advaita Vedanta.
Elenkhos 9 months ago
cosmic egg creation stories. also lady gaga's egg.
matrixcmitech 9 months ago
@matrixcmitech You inadvertently inspire this, ya know.
Barklord 9 months ago
@Barklord that picture of the archetype erosphanes is yet another synchronicity (which seem lately to be increasing) actually i was going to request that you make a video about that exact picture !! because the perennial philosophies are where i was schooled (before i was born here).
if the universal matrix is made out of archetypical programs, like erosphanes, then his icon would contain a message that is universal. that is if we can decode it correctly. the snake wrapped around him = DNA??
matrixcmitech 9 months ago
@matrixcmitech Lady Gaga is proof that David Bowie raped Carol Burnett...
TheMercilessEye 9 months ago
David Benatar is not only a misanthropist but arguably a racist as well. He opposes affirmative action programs in (now get this) post apartheid South Africa. He is against suffering? Bullshit. Then why does he support corporeal punishment for children? I'm not a bit surprised that the hateful Benatar is a hero to YouTube misanthropists.
DanaGarrett 9 months ago
The position on suffering certainly conflicts with corporal punishment and I was surprised Benatar would lend any support to it. I'm reading a paper I found online that says it's written by him with his arguments and what he's going after is the position that all corporal punishment be abolished, in particular, mild and infrequent corporal punishment by parents, teachers, onto children. He probably holds a utilitarian position that a little suffering now prevents a greater suffering later.
DiwataMan 9 months ago
@DanaGarrett I have to say now that I've read some of what Benatar has said on affirmative action and corporal punishment I get the feeling you have something against the man. Clearly his positions and the way you present them "opposes affirmative action programs" and "support corporeal punishment for children" conflict because stating it in the way you have makes no distintion. It's Moral Philosophy not a bumper sticker.
DiwataMan 9 months ago
@DanaGarrett Your comment inspired me to make a video though it's not wholly directed at you, please check it out if you like.
watch?v=sDS_sZ0GQUQ
DiwataMan 9 months ago
@DanaGarrett Thanks. I clearly need to read more about him before I form any judgements about his character or motives.
Barklord 9 months ago
@DanaGarrett Look its the hateful Dana Garrett who supports George Bush's Wars and endless sentient suffering. Dana Garrett is for human life. Bullshit. Why doe she support suffering? Not a bit surprised that cowards for the status quo support Dana Garret the philosopher for the apathetic.
antinatalism1 9 months ago
@antinatalism1 It's perfectly OK to ineptly attempt to parody my comments, but you really should not libel me in the process. You write, "Look its the hateful Dana Garrett who supports George Bush's Wars...." Excuse me? I was out protesting those wars, writing against them, helping to pressure members of government to stop them during a period of time that many of you misanthropists were mostly talking to one another & filling your heads with delusions about humanity volunteering to off itself.
DanaGarrett 9 months ago
well said my friend, I feel that even if there is a flicker of good to be had, a moment of joy, a second of love; then all the suffering means nothing, its just the way of things.
bikemessenger7 9 months ago
@bikemessenger7 wow, you almost quoted one of my favorite passages from a book. I'll try to find it and send the exact quote in PM.
Barklord 9 months ago
@Barklord I look forward to it B. yours E
bikemessenger7 9 months ago
"We have seen that there is room for reasonable people to disagree about the value of corporal punishment in rearing and educating a child. Contrary to the views of those who oppose all physical punishment, it is not implausible to think that such punishment, if inflicted under the appropriate conditions, might do some good. If corporal punishment does indeed have some benefit, then this would be lost if the practice were abandoned. From the perspective of public policy...
DiwataMan 9 months ago
...prohibiting corporal punishment would constitute a serious interference with the liberty interests of those parents who judge the possibility of corporal punishment to benefit their children. Such liberty interests would be overridable if there were compelling evidence of the harmfulness of corporal punishment, but the inconclusive data we currently have provide no such grounds."
DiwataMan 9 months ago
@DiwataMan So, judging by this, pain and suffering much more negotiable and nuanced than many of the youtube antinatalists would like to assert. I also liked pyrrho314's position that certain forms of chosen suffering are very healthy when they result from strenuous effort toward a goal.
Barklord 9 months ago
@DiwataMan "the liberty interests of those parents" Fascinating standard for a utilitarian. Some people have a liberty interest to inflict physical suffering on other people? In my view, he is rationalizing child abuse. But I am not surprised. I find more and more that many anti-natalists have particular groups, as well as humanity in general, that they wish to prey upon.
DanaGarrett 9 months ago
@DiwataMan There are actually a good many highly successful alternatives to corporal punishment...and they are invariably far more effective, in the long run, in producing well balanced and fair minded people who typically prefer reason as a resort to conflict.
TheMercilessEye 9 months ago
@TheMercilessEye Hey you don't have to tell me, lol, I take the position that Benatar goes against, please see my video with a link to his paper if you like.
DiwataMan 9 months ago
@DiwataMan Roger D. Sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing. ;)
TheMercilessEye 9 months ago
@DiwataMan Actually, BY FAR most credible studies show that corporeal punishment does harm children in the long term. Some studies find that the effect is negligible. I'm sure Benatar knows that, but he is leaving a misleading impression about it. So, then, even if the the long-term effect is negligible, the short-term effect is suffering from the beatings. Yet he's for it. So much for his vaunted concern about human suffering.
DanaGarrett 9 months ago