@ivankomar1 I don't know of a counting system where the stones count as half a point. The chinese rules counts the stones, as I posted in a comment below, this is just the simplest method, the japanese style counting. Now as for komi, it's actually 6.5 now, and in America it's 7.5. I thought I mentioned komi in the video, if not my apologies.
could you explain why you use territory counting instead of area counting? As far as I know the result is the same (if using passing stones), and area counting seems faster
@clossius if you use area counting, dead stones don't have to be collected separately; instead of substracting them you add the number of pieces still on the board
I realize however that if the shape of your territory is very complex (i.e. not rectangular), it is easier to fill it up with dead stones. So OK, I just answered my question :)
We use area counting because we dont have enough stones, so we must use the dead ones again.
@6c333374 Actually you are correct. That way of counting is actually how the chinese do it. They count the territory first, and then the number of stones on the board. (For one side) After that, if what the count is greater than 361/2, then that player wins. How it works is, stones+territory must be greater than 361/2. If it's equal to 361/2, then white wins by half a point. (Komi) Now in even games komi is added. So you count whites score, and you will need territory+stones to equal (361/2)-3.5
hang on a second. I get that black wouldn't play inside his own territory because then he would lose points. But why doesn't white play in black's territory? Then black would lose points.
Also, I was introduced to Go through the manga Hikaru no Go, where the komi is 5 1/2 points. But every American go thing i've seen says 6 1/2. Is it a regional thing? I'm confused.
@FogmanOgg if white plays inside black territory it would jsut get captured and reduce whites points instead, so he would lose points playing dead stones. And komi used to be 5.5 until a few years ago. Back when hikaru no go was written, it was 5.5. Now and days they are actually using 7.5 in some tournaments.
it's not called a loose ladder, it's called a ladder breaker.. a loose ladder is something else - it's a tesuji similar to a ladder when the captured stone has an additional liberty on the other side..
You can learn about it in James Davies's book "Tesuji"
@Heller86 Yea sorry about the term mix up. Someone told me this before, but I just figure that the point was that the ladder doesn't work. I can try to put a icon thingy saying it.
im sorry ive really never played this game before i love to play chess and supposedly this is chess x10 the strategy but what is the point in this it looks like you are just trying to capture opponents pieces and you gain territory but im pretty sure that isnt what your trying to do please explain
@xxjak529xx actually it's right your not trying to capture your opponent. Now there are several ways to think about this, in go the game is based on territory. Otherwise the area you surround. Now if your group dies it's a big loss, so the point of this is to show basic captures to beginners. Now for beginners you need to learn how to move around the board without dying. Otherwise it would be like trying to beat each other up in a fist fight and the first one to land a good punch wins. No skill.
@clossius ugh that happened to me. i just played a game online with another begginer, i was going for territory and sneak attacks and getting eyes, and the whole time he had over 20 pts in capturing where as i had none, it was verry annoying. and now it made me even more confused on how it works.
@xxjak529xx so the basics is to learn how to move around the board without getting yourself killed, after that comes the difficult part. When neither player is weak enough to get themselves killed, (most of the time) it's who ever can make their territory the quickest. This part of the game is the main focus for stronger players. Everything is about making use of whatever we have, and making sure that it effects future moves the way we want it to. Basically we are preparing for undecided factors
@xxjak529xx In the end I guess the point of go is preparing for the unkown while also having good defence and balance between fortifying and attacking. In stronger players games you may notice groups dying, that's not because we don't know how to live, but rather we figured we could live in the area where the group is and take away our opponents points. Otherwise our opponent would have too many points. In stronger players games we focus on the balance of points. Everything we do effects that.
@TheeXSpirit No, when the stone is captured it goes inside of your opponents territory. So every stone you play inside that dies, you lose 1 point. Now if your opponent responds, he loses one point also. So it really is pointless to do it, the score won't change (Unless your opponent doesn't even need to respond and your still dead, in that case you lose a point.) so don't bother playing inside unless you know you can do something.
@clossius ok i think i understand ^_^ ty um do u know where i can get a good cheap go board? i went to amazon and nothing there was great or if it was didnt fit my budget and yellow mountain imports shipping is overpriced so would u happen to know of any other places?
@TheeXSpirit yellow mountain actually isn't over priced, that's the normal price for go boards. But a nice cheap go board, you might be able to get one from the american go foundation. Google it and go to their website and click on their store.
When we count territory we count the area we surround, the stones are not our points the area we surround is. So playing inside the area we currounded loses 1 point in the area since there is now a stone where we were counting.
oh and one more thing, you said white gets 6.5 extra points for going second. but your playing on a 9x9 board, does that mean that on a full board white gets a much bigger komi or is it just 6.5 no matter what size you play?
You made a good point, but its 6.5 on a 19x19 it would probably be 2.5 or 3.5 on a 9x9 but that would be difficult to explain to everyone. i just want them to get used to the actual 19x19 rules first.
actually that Idea is wrong ^^;, you have to think about how much area your surrounding. 9x9 point on the board means there are only 81 points. - about 30-40 points for the stones to be placed, and the 40 points of territory. so already 6.5 is 1/8 of the possible territory, waay to much of an advantage.
On the 19x19 there are 361 point on the board, about 200-250 moves per game, and about 161-111 points of territory possible usually. (So 6.5 is less of a fraction)
Nope, 6.5 is actually about right. Even then I prefer black, but that's probably just me. There are some arguments for 5.5 as komi instead, but at 6.5 komi the games seem to be a bit closer to 50-50. I'd certainly hate to be white with anything less than 5.5.
On 3x3 and 5x5 boards, Black can acheive a full-board win. On 9x9 and up, komi of 6.5 seems to be about right. There is less to compete over, but the first stone exerts more influence (roughly in proportion) over the area being competed for. :)
Loose ladders mean something completely different (it's a ladder that allows the opponent more than 1 liberties). What you are talking about is a broken ladder.
Very nice videos though, they seem to be easy to understand.
Now the comment box is working wahoo! I also liked this lesson very much! It was a good review for me thankyou! But why aren't you getting more comments or is it only becuase the video's only been up for a day?
didnt you forget that whoever is white gets an extra 5 1/2 points ,and every stone counts as 1/2 moku
ivankomar1 4 months ago
@ivankomar1 I don't know of a counting system where the stones count as half a point. The chinese rules counts the stones, as I posted in a comment below, this is just the simplest method, the japanese style counting. Now as for komi, it's actually 6.5 now, and in America it's 7.5. I thought I mentioned komi in the video, if not my apologies.
clossius 4 months ago
could you explain why you use territory counting instead of area counting? As far as I know the result is the same (if using passing stones), and area counting seems faster
6c333374 6 months ago
@6c333374 I'm afraid I don't understand your question. What do you mean difference between area and territory?
clossius 6 months ago
@clossius if you use area counting, dead stones don't have to be collected separately; instead of substracting them you add the number of pieces still on the board
I realize however that if the shape of your territory is very complex (i.e. not rectangular), it is easier to fill it up with dead stones. So OK, I just answered my question :)
We use area counting because we dont have enough stones, so we must use the dead ones again.
6c333374 6 months ago
@6c333374 Actually you are correct. That way of counting is actually how the chinese do it. They count the territory first, and then the number of stones on the board. (For one side) After that, if what the count is greater than 361/2, then that player wins. How it works is, stones+territory must be greater than 361/2. If it's equal to 361/2, then white wins by half a point. (Komi) Now in even games komi is added. So you count whites score, and you will need territory+stones to equal (361/2)-3.5
clossius 6 months ago
Thx a lot.
Halokid998 7 months ago
I am learning go because of Hikaru no Go
123qaz234wsx 8 months ago 2
Thanks I was able to use this concept in a card game called Tactic War. Don't get involved in the ladder unless you are on the winning end of it!
365DaysofPoker 10 months ago
hang on a second. I get that black wouldn't play inside his own territory because then he would lose points. But why doesn't white play in black's territory? Then black would lose points.
Also, I was introduced to Go through the manga Hikaru no Go, where the komi is 5 1/2 points. But every American go thing i've seen says 6 1/2. Is it a regional thing? I'm confused.
FogmanOgg 11 months ago
@FogmanOgg if white plays inside black territory it would jsut get captured and reduce whites points instead, so he would lose points playing dead stones. And komi used to be 5.5 until a few years ago. Back when hikaru no go was written, it was 5.5. Now and days they are actually using 7.5 in some tournaments.
clossius 11 months ago 3
@clossius oh, thanks. I've only been playing for about a month (I don't even have a Go set a home) and you videos have been really helpful.
FogmanOgg 11 months ago
What if white has one stone somewhere down the board? Can white escape?
OldWizardDotCom 11 months ago
geh i hate the ladder XD idk how many times ive been caught in it lol
thetinything 1 year ago
Do you have a video with a more complicated end game to show?
birddogg62 1 year ago
it's not called a loose ladder, it's called a ladder breaker.. a loose ladder is something else - it's a tesuji similar to a ladder when the captured stone has an additional liberty on the other side..
You can learn about it in James Davies's book "Tesuji"
Heller86 1 year ago
@Heller86 Yea sorry about the term mix up. Someone told me this before, but I just figure that the point was that the ladder doesn't work. I can try to put a icon thingy saying it.
clossius 1 year ago
good tutorial........but your board sucks...r u strong?
Iquinin 1 year ago
im sorry ive really never played this game before i love to play chess and supposedly this is chess x10 the strategy but what is the point in this it looks like you are just trying to capture opponents pieces and you gain territory but im pretty sure that isnt what your trying to do please explain
xxjak529xx 1 year ago
@xxjak529xx actually it's right your not trying to capture your opponent. Now there are several ways to think about this, in go the game is based on territory. Otherwise the area you surround. Now if your group dies it's a big loss, so the point of this is to show basic captures to beginners. Now for beginners you need to learn how to move around the board without dying. Otherwise it would be like trying to beat each other up in a fist fight and the first one to land a good punch wins. No skill.
clossius 1 year ago
@clossius ugh that happened to me. i just played a game online with another begginer, i was going for territory and sneak attacks and getting eyes, and the whole time he had over 20 pts in capturing where as i had none, it was verry annoying. and now it made me even more confused on how it works.
iloveyou8770 1 year ago
@xxjak529xx so the basics is to learn how to move around the board without getting yourself killed, after that comes the difficult part. When neither player is weak enough to get themselves killed, (most of the time) it's who ever can make their territory the quickest. This part of the game is the main focus for stronger players. Everything is about making use of whatever we have, and making sure that it effects future moves the way we want it to. Basically we are preparing for undecided factors
clossius 1 year ago
@xxjak529xx In the end I guess the point of go is preparing for the unkown while also having good defence and balance between fortifying and attacking. In stronger players games you may notice groups dying, that's not because we don't know how to live, but rather we figured we could live in the area where the group is and take away our opponents points. Otherwise our opponent would have too many points. In stronger players games we focus on the balance of points. Everything we do effects that.
clossius 1 year ago
before the ladder was invented wasnt is considered a good move to place the stones in that possition?
kikstar45 1 year ago
why not just play in ur opponents territory and make them lose points? even though ull die they'll lose points for trying to capture u wont they?
TheeXSpirit 1 year ago
@TheeXSpirit No, when the stone is captured it goes inside of your opponents territory. So every stone you play inside that dies, you lose 1 point. Now if your opponent responds, he loses one point also. So it really is pointless to do it, the score won't change (Unless your opponent doesn't even need to respond and your still dead, in that case you lose a point.) so don't bother playing inside unless you know you can do something.
clossius 1 year ago
@clossius ok i think i understand ^_^ ty um do u know where i can get a good cheap go board? i went to amazon and nothing there was great or if it was didnt fit my budget and yellow mountain imports shipping is overpriced so would u happen to know of any other places?
TheeXSpirit 1 year ago
@TheeXSpirit yellow mountain actually isn't over priced, that's the normal price for go boards. But a nice cheap go board, you might be able to get one from the american go foundation. Google it and go to their website and click on their store.
clossius 1 year ago
that's just 2month of me ignore that comment if possible
lance1236451 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
no offense but ur stones SUCK get at least jung stone or yuzi
lance1236451 2 years ago
I'm sorry this is such an amateurish question, but why do you lose points for playing inside your own territory?
aquamist1000 2 years ago
When we count territory we count the area we surround, the stones are not our points the area we surround is. So playing inside the area we currounded loses 1 point in the area since there is now a stone where we were counting.
clossius 2 years ago
Ok, how about this, I'm 1k as well, why not play like 20 9 by 9 games with me as black and you with 6.5 komi on KGS sometimes?
illluck 2 years ago
Sorry getting tired and messing up ^^;...
Ok I did this on a calculator.
9x9 has 81 points, so it has a little over 11 7 points.(81 / 7) And on 19x19 which has 361 points, 19x19 has over 51 sets of 7.
So 7 points is a much less percentage/fraction of a 19x19 then 9x9.
If any of this makes sense ;D. . .
clossius 2 years ago
Sure that's fine, make it 10 I don't exaclty like 9x9 ;p. But I need to delete some of these comments...They're stacking too much xD.
clossius 2 years ago
Gah!! end game is confusing..
nacnate 3 years ago
It gets easier ^^; you will soon relize it's just math. =)
clossius 3 years ago
the really hard thing in go is to hold stones XD
Mystl 3 years ago
Lol, you get used to that rather quickly. Although even after 2 years of playing I still sometimes flick stones off the board. xD
clossius 3 years ago
oh and one more thing, you said white gets 6.5 extra points for going second. but your playing on a 9x9 board, does that mean that on a full board white gets a much bigger komi or is it just 6.5 no matter what size you play?
Darknizzle 3 years ago
You made a good point, but its 6.5 on a 19x19 it would probably be 2.5 or 3.5 on a 9x9 but that would be difficult to explain to everyone. i just want them to get used to the actual 19x19 rules first.
clossius 3 years ago
The komi on 9 by 9 is actually around 6.5 as well because the first move is worth a lot.
illluck 3 years ago
actually that Idea is wrong ^^;, you have to think about how much area your surrounding. 9x9 point on the board means there are only 81 points. - about 30-40 points for the stones to be placed, and the 40 points of territory. so already 6.5 is 1/8 of the possible territory, waay to much of an advantage.
On the 19x19 there are 361 point on the board, about 200-250 moves per game, and about 161-111 points of territory possible usually. (So 6.5 is less of a fraction)
clossius 2 years ago
Nope, 6.5 is actually about right. Even then I prefer black, but that's probably just me. There are some arguments for 5.5 as komi instead, but at 6.5 komi the games seem to be a bit closer to 50-50. I'd certainly hate to be white with anything less than 5.5.
illluck 2 years ago
On 3x3 and 5x5 boards, Black can acheive a full-board win. On 9x9 and up, komi of 6.5 seems to be about right. There is less to compete over, but the first stone exerts more influence (roughly in proportion) over the area being competed for. :)
Zahlman 2 years ago
is someone playing some crazy video game in the background or is that just the microphone warbling or something
Darknizzle 3 years ago
oh sorry I am still new to the game
checkmate1010 3 years ago
Welcome to go.
clossius 3 years ago
what rank are you clossius (I am 20 Q)
checkmate1010 3 years ago
I'm 2kyu. =) (not Q its "kyu" or 20k)
clossius 3 years ago
why would you end the game like that?
can´t you still play in the opponents area, and reduce their score?
mirshanna 3 years ago
no it would be futile to play in each others area because of the thickness of either side. all the stones played by the opponent will die.
No offence but lots of beginning players make this mistake. learning when to end the game I think is the biggest lesson for a new player
kj01a 3 years ago
there's math in the game!?
fireinyourheartisout 3 years ago
Yes a good bit of math is involved. But you don't "have" to know math to play, couse even 5 to 6 year old kids can play really well.
clossius 3 years ago
the only thing i didnt like is when you kept saying 6.5 points instead of 6 and a half points i dont know, im weird like that
HateToWin 3 years ago
its also known as atari. 1 move from being taken.
HmongYou2Tube 3 years ago
a ladder is a series of atari, this kind of atari after atari over and over is reffered to as a ladder.
clossius 3 years ago
Cool I learned something today. Thanks.
keniichi 3 years ago
Loose ladders mean something completely different (it's a ladder that allows the opponent more than 1 liberties). What you are talking about is a broken ladder.
Very nice videos though, they seem to be easy to understand.
illluck 3 years ago
Ah! Oops =p messed that part up. sorry ^.^, thanks for your positive feedback =D!
clossius 3 years ago
wow didnlt even knwo the diffrence between loose and broken thats ur a terbel teacher. u have failed me XD :)
bavly6 3 years ago
=O you bad mouther =P your lucky i know your j/k xD
clossius 3 years ago
Now the comment box is working wahoo! I also liked this lesson very much! It was a good review for me thankyou! But why aren't you getting more comments or is it only becuase the video's only been up for a day?
keniichi 3 years ago
for a day probably.
clossius 3 years ago
Oh, then youll probably get more soon hopefully!
keniichi 3 years ago