DNA and The Book of Mormon 3, Ryan Parr 2005 FAIR Conference

[biggdannyd]

Just because DNA evidence comes out and proves your Mesoamerican theory false FAIR and FAMRS has to come out and attack the findings of modern genetic science. There are so many different stretches and theory recreations that needed to take place in order for this bunk theory to hold any water whatsoever. The founder of the theory pushed asside the words and testimonies of the Prophet Joseph Smith... how sure it its foundation?

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd Actually, LDS geneticists who don't care about BOM geography have said that DNA will never prove nor disprove The BOM, and they have also spoke extensively about the problems with X2a being used as an evidence for The Book of Mormon. What do they have to lose or gain by saying this?

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd And no, since Joseph Smith taught this theory he did not have to "push aside" his own words. Was that definitive? No. Prophets and Apostles have conjectured Book of Mormon geography every since and the Church has it has not been revealed and those who have spoke on the subject in the past have done so as their own opinion.

Also, FARMS and FAIR are dedicated to finding evidence for the Church. If there was truth to it, they would embrace it. But since there are so many problems

[fairldsorg]

@fairldsorg with the theory that is being promoted around the Great Lakes area, mainly the misuse and twisting of information, that these organizations have chosen to distance themselves from it.

[biggdannyd]

@fairldsorg He didn't teach it.

What twisting of information? there are burial mounds in Nahom just like the Mound Builders made in the Great Lakes area.

They built everything out of wood, not stone. They had temples that didn't look like the great and spacious building but rather built on three tiers and offset like Solomon's temple. They dug trenches round about ALL of their cities and heaped the dirt up on the bank and built walls on top of the banks just like in Alma....

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd Just to keep things uniform, I'll keep the JS beliefs on BOM geography comments on the other video.

Many other civilizations also built cities/villages out of wood, had dirt walls, and temples (including the Maya). It is not a confirming evidence by any means. BTW, the Hopewell did not live in cities but small villages. Also, do you have a reference for the Hopewell and your temple comments?

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd As mentioned earlier, the Hopewell did not live in cities nor did they have the population to occupy cities mentioned in The Book of Mormon which is one reason I don't believe they were BOM peoples. They were a small population spread over a large area, and lived in villages with only a few hundred people (at least the larger groups did). Also, Moroni built defensive walls out of dirt and buried large amounts of people which caused a mound. No Hopewell mound has been found with

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd Large amounts of bodies killed from war. They have mounds which generally have less than a dozen people who are buried ceremonially. Also, in addition to the other references I asked for, where in The Book of Mormon does it say Moroni built mounds in the shape of oil lamps? It doesn't.

[biggdannyd]

@fairldsorg Alma 50: 15 "And they also began in that same year to build many cities on the north, one in a particular manner which they called Lehi, which was in the north by the borders of the seashore."

An oil lamp and a menorah are destinctively Jewish, it's even mentioned on a yoyenta blog. The square and cumpass are a little more sensative.

Alma 50: 1-7 defines the method of construction for all of the Hopewell cities to the T

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd Again, I don't see where it says that Moroni built ceremonial mounds. To be honest, I am not sure what this scripture has to do with our discussion. Am I missing something?

In regards to Alma 50:1-7, these are the walls I was speaking about earlier which you said disagreed with. Again, dirt walls aren't culture specific. This is actually an exact description of defensive structures of the Maya at places like Becan. It had a dirt wall with stockades on top that covered nearly 62 acres

[fairldsorg]

The Hopewell also didn't get bow and arrow technology until after the end of their civilization, so when Alma 50 speaks of the defensive structures being used to protect themselves against the Lamanites arrows, it becomes a problem for a Great Lakes theory since it this technology was unknown during BOM times. Again, the Hopewell did not have cities, only small villages. There have never been a Hopewell city found.

[biggdannyd]

@fairldsorg did you read what I last said?!!!

How do you know they didn't know what a bow and arrow was? (Please answer this rather than dodging it.)

"Ancient Antiquities of New York" THOUSANDS of these enclosures were found and documented and though some are smaller than others, all are big enough to fit a decent amount of people inside.

Then what about the Jaredites? (Adena)

[fairldsorg]

@biggdannyd I was going to ask you the same thing. If you are getting upset, I apologize. It is pointless to argue about theories. If we can keep a discussion civil (actually, messaging would be MUCH easier, it is hard to be restricted on how much I can post) I would love to continue. If not, perhaps this discussion should end. Agreed?

[fairldsorg]

Archaeologists can determine the lack of use of the Bow and arrow by lack of arrowheads which date to that time period. Only after about 500 AD does evidence of them begin to be found.

Enclosures are not cities. The Hopewell would gather together *outside* of the mounds and work together to build it, and disperse back into their own villages when it was finished. No one is denying they existed, they are just not what you think they are.

[biggdannyd]

@fairldsorg Alma 50: 15 "And they also began in that same year to build many cities on the north, one in a particular manner which they called Lehi, which was in the north by the borders of the seashore."

An oil lamp and a menorah are destinctively Jewish, it's even mentioned on a yoyenta blog. The square and cumpass are a little more sensative. The city was 90 miles south of Lake Erie before destroyed by the Gentiles and remnant of the seed of Joseph who came forth out of captivity...

[biggdannyd]

@fairldsorg not conquistadores who were sent by the queen of Spain

Alma 50: 1-7 defines the method of construction for all of the Hopewell cities to the T

[brotherfrank62]

he who has an ear to hear let him or her hear!