Although it looks like a waste of energy to move like that, it also looks intimidating to approach. And it looks like it would definitely help in getting up back to our feet.
biohax, your statement about the manner in which the knife wielders are holding the knives has zero validity. We aren't dueling in a mano y mano fashion so if you find out what kind of grip the attacker has, you're probably already dead.
what a bunch of newbs...experienced knife fighters never lead with the knife or leave it so exposed. look at how lightly they're gripping the knife and how uncommitted their attacks are too. in exercises like this, the attack should use good form as much as the defender.
@NHTN, I don't agree but understand your perspective. If you use your legs in a defensive (anticipatory), static position, it leaves you open to someone stomping or doing a sacrifice dive and stab on you. The instructor is constantly shifting positions to prevent being perfectly targeted, and using great restraint also because this is only a demo. We believe being on the ground more than 10 secs is a huge mistake.
Well when you have a stick it might be different. Also, being a ground fighting drill, he didn't stand up, because that's the point of the "ground fighting" drill, to be on the ground. These skills definatly come in handy if you end up on the ground. Also,when two people are constantly attacking you,what I learned in Karate is when the person is on the ground they arn't defenceless,but they are quite defenceless when in the middle of getting up,which might be why he stay down???I don't know.
this technique isn't very good. its only a matter of time until the guy on the ground gets tired and becomes defensless.
not to mention, when you're moving like that its almost impossible to really aim with your strikes. and believe me, not ALL (many are) strikes with a stick are deadly or even that damaging.
We don't believe ALL strikes are deadly or damaging which is why our demos look so wild and unplanned. The reality is that there are VERY FEW humans who can take multiple drop strikes which have the impact of hammers or even sledgehammers, yet and still we train as if they can take repeated shots and be unaffected. You may want to think twice before criticizing our training because many of us have actually been exposed to the fray and it's much more than theory.
The problem is the attackers here do not really have the mindset of killing the instructor. You can see the reluctance to attack. What if they really wanted to kill, throw themselves at the instructor and randomly stab him?
Great post and you're dead on. Something a lot of people seem not to realize is that we train with people who have BJJ, Judo and Ju Jitsu training all of the time and guess what? They can't use it. I'm not saying it's useless because I surely know that I can't outgrapple one of them, but if you can't use it for realistic fighting it's not what we are interested in. I'm sure there are many cases where it can be used, its just that this system has far more effective methods.
@UniversalStandards. Great response. I would of lost respect or Guided Chaos practictioners if you had dismissed the dangers a skilled grappler can pose. It says a lot about the validity of the system. I wish you guys were closer to where I am. I know I could learn a lot.
not to bash this but i cracked up... it makes me think they shoulda shown a jedi toddler throwing a temper tantrum in starwars, i think it woulda looked something like that :p
I really honestly have no clue if this would work, but if you really wanted to learn to defend yourself against multiple attackers with knives... why not just buy a gun and get a concealed carry permit?
Concealed carry permits are almost impossible to get unless your brother-in-law is a judge---and even then probably not. You can buy the gun, use it, and wind up in jail for the rest of your life while your attacker stays on the street, free to rape or kill again.
Not if you don't miss...but you're right. A gun in public is only a scare tactic. If you can't scare the guy off with the gun, it's really just a club, as you will get reamed for using it since it's "excessive force" even though the guy attacking you has a knife and will kill you if allowed to get close enough. Gotta love the justice system.
depends where you are i suppose... where i live (the upper peninsula of michigan) it is fairly easy to get a concealed carry permit. there is just a place you go to take a class and you get one as long as you pass the safety test, i think you need to pass a target practice test for some reason but i could be wrong, and you can't have any felonies on your record. and with new agreements with other states the permits will work in them, too.
@mattkovsky Depends on your state. Washington state is a "Shall Issue" and has give your a CHL in I think 30 days if you qualify. Any "Shall Issue" WILL give it to you, it's the "May Issue" that you will have some trouble in depending on local government officials (the Sheriff, I believe has the final word).
Although it's padded to avoid broken bones, that training cane is heavy and HURTS when it hits. It's nearly impossible to time because the movement is so varied and unpredictable. Finally, with a full weight steel or steel+wood cane, single shots delivered like this DO break bones. Gotta try working against someone who knows how to do this well.
This is very interesting, but there is a weakness - the ground. A gravel road or sand would be at the very least diminish your speed and agility. Even a random rock or a small stump could hit your vertebrae.
We agree. We honestly try to avoid the ground at all costs, but if you do get down there it's a necessity to get up ASAP. You can't see it here but we do exercises where we transition from the ground to our feet as quickly as possible without the assistance of our hands. Sometimes people will argue points about this system, but the fact of the matter as I've said is that these youtube vids only breeze over the surface. Thanks for commenting.
If you had seen it in a class you'd realize what you're missing in context. Attackers hold back because the kicks and foam-padded rubber stick hurt like hell--I have the welts to prove it--and the defender is pulling his shots tremendously. With full power kicks and a real cane there IS no fight--and no more training partners. This is done with visitors to our school also if they wish so everyone can share the pain. The school is always open to serious and curious non-jerks.
I've never seen this drill in any classes and how would you know? you're also sitting in front of a computer if that's the case. the attackers have plenty of opportunity to get a stab, they're just holding back. i would love to see someone outside of your classes taking the position of the attacker. throwdown... no. disproving this is an ineffective system... yes.
Any smart person would wait for the guy to get tired...about one minute for most chumps, three for a seasoned athlete. The best "Defense" Is to carry a gun, or GTFO
This wasn't meant to be an IQ test. This is a drill dude. Any smart person on the ground doesn't flail around just for the exercise. Duh. You hang out and wait for the advance. If the enemy wants to hang out then obviously you get up and run.
this is bullcrap. in the time the guy spends rolling around with a stick, i can watch the timing to jump in. there's plenty of gaps open for attack. and as for the guys hesitating to jump in, i'd trade a hit or two if it meant my strike was going to be more lethal. this is something i would have done when i was a kid, not self-defense.
This is a drill dude. You don't roll around unless you're attacked. You don't go to the ground unless you fall. Forensic homicide reports support the survivability of fighting a knife from the ground vs. attacking the knife hand from a stand-up position.
if going to the ground was just an option, then how come he didn't open the video with him fighting stand-up. he starts with swinging a stick instead? and by the fact you provided, you're saying that you automatically go to the ground when faced with a knife because it's the safest. you're only contradicting your first statement.
That's because this is a drill meant to increase ground mobility by over-training it. If you had bothered to read any of these threads on any of the clips you so knowledgeably commented on you would see that the points I've made have been repeated hundred times for the ADD crowd. So to repeat again for the 100th time, you fight on the ground if you've fallen or have no other option (other than presenting your face, throat and heart with a "weapon apprehension" like a carved meatloaf).
That's not drilling, he's straight up using this as a self-defense. If this is an option, where is the other video where he shows how to fight with a stick standing up? additionally, his back, kidneys, stomach are still exposed. and i never mentioned weapon apprehension in this. if i has a stick, i'd use it because it's a long range weapon, why would i worry about getting his knife? do you really want to put your theory to the test? i'll fly to wherever you are, your fighters vs. mine.
Oh I see, you know how this drill is used in a class you've never seen because you're sitting at a computer. And you're also omniscient, sure that upright stick techniques can't exist because you don't see a clip for it. Back, kidneys, stomach exposed how? And you talked about weapon apprehension on the other ground clips simultaneously. Sticks and legs are both longer range weapons than arms. You want to see this or try? You're welcome to visit. Want a "throwdown?--go to another website.
if you're on the ground, the attacker has the advantage because he follows gravity to strike and has control because he's in the dominant position. why do you think mma fighters who are the ground try to keep their opponent in the guard? ...to keep them from having more leverage. the attacker can move around while you're laying there or rolling randomly and time when to strike.
If you don't think there's a difference between being kicked barefoot (MMA) and with boots on you need to stop drinking the koolaid. Go kick a brick wall barefoot and tell me what you feel. The guard is meant for 2 people trying to submit each other in a rules-based sportive environment, not to send them to the next world. And again, if the attacker has time to "move around" you have time to get up and run. You don't lay on the ground soaking up the sun.
the ground fighting might be the least thing u wanna do as u can't evade and advance properly and effectively, what if somebody started trowing rocks? in krav maga we're always taught to stay on our feet that stick is long and can hit the opponent way before he can slash, why go on the ground? just stay on ur feet, somebody comes, swing the bat, nothing fancy there...
it's only been repeated about 1,000 times, so here's 1,001: you don't just throw yourself on the ground, this is an option if you fall or are thrown to the ground by the enemy. The rubber stick represent either a found weapon or a cane.
Great in theory but there's something that's bugging me about this. It's assuming that a single strike delivered in this manner will stop an opponent.
lol.. i am a grappler/wrestler. the "DEMO" you are referring to looks the way it does because the guy on the ground is trying to not heart the attackers. This stuff is for real. the guy on the ground is taking it easy on the attaches'. I have been a student at a couple of classes and the balls out way of a wrestler or mma attacker will be seriously hurt. every time. it is humbling.
In some cases, this may be true. John Perkins' experience bears this out. However, a stout cane wielded with skill to break legs can at least immobilize the PCP freak. Break arms and he'll have trouble knifing you.
What would YOU suggest, short of multiple bullets to the head? (This is, in fact, what we strongly suggest in the scenario you mention--but not everyone owns or carries a gun, so they need alternatives.)
I can see the very restrictive rules to protect the fellow on the mat in this demo. The knife wielders were not allowed to grapple or be struck more than once. In reality the knife wielder would take a glancing blow from the umbrella before putting his knee of foot on the throat of the lad on the ground and then multiple stabbing him to death.
SOME of the sequences in this clip were intended to be "demos." But no rules apply (besides "don't bring a real weapon into play" for safety) when new folks (many of them quite skeptical, and many of them grapplers or otherwise trained) come into class to try things out. So far, none have been able to do anything like what you describe. That padded stick still hurts like heck when it hits you hard, and you see what a real cane can do. Plus, the ground kicks can ruin your day.
This is the last thing an attacker would expect to happen in a victims movement. He can dissapear from sight level and crush knees with a cane by using full body unity. He can also shatter bones with the legs. Trust me the instinct is to not even get near him even with a padded stick because you feel it.
JKDLIFER, you seem to think you know a hell of a lot about stuff you clearly don't know anything about. I would look further into this than a few YouTube clips if I were you before commenting so authoritatively. Hands-on experience is very telling.
The guy in the video(a KCD master B.T.W.)barely breaks a sweat with this. Observe the way he rolls to perfect positions to deal with the knifers using alligator rolls and full body unity. He can move to spots faster than they can run around his legs. One of the tougher skills to master here is the 4 limb independence needed to thrash with your legs and independently swing the stick at a different target. This "split brain" ability is a very useful skill when fighting 2 or more opponents.
I would imagine that in a real situation with real weapons and real danger, adrenaline would play a huge role in the movements in the ground fight. the fight in reality would go much quicker and end much faster then the exercise. So the amount of energy used in the fight would be quantified differently than in the controlled situation shown in the example above. still a useful exercise in terms of getting used to being on the ground though, I would think.
ColonelMarksman, with all due respect, that comment doesn't make sense at all. "Getting up" in a knife fight is last thing you want to do? Really? What happens in confined spaces? Do you curl up in the fetal position on the floor? He's wasting less energy by moving around like that on the floor?
I interpreted his statement as meaning, "Don't get up prematurely, such that you'll get stabbed while trying to get up," and I agree. In confined spaces, you could dominate the whole space with your legs while keeping most of your vitals out of reach (see the vs. knife clip in the Hellevator training box). It really doesn't take huge amounts of energy once you learn and train how to do it well. All is relative, however.
From studying the knife weilders, I just noticed they're martial artists, not some street people. As for throwing the knives, I thought of that too, but throwing knives is a surprisingly EXTREMELY difficult art to master, and trying to throw a knive at someone wildly swinging about and rolling on the ground...
First let me say that I'm not trying to be disrespectful but it really looks chaotic. Not to mention that if someone is trying to stab me, I'm going to hit and then get up, not stay on the floor. I was getting dizzy just looking at him.
It's a drill to develop the ground movement skill. In reality, you're right: Hit from the ground in order to gain time and space to get up. Guess what: real violence IS chaotic. Attempting to impose order on the chaos will work only if you're physically FAR superior (bigger, stronger, faster) and all else is equal (one-on-one, open space, no weapons, etc.). Otherwise, train to function effectively in chaos. Create it and thrive in it. That's the idea.
Oh trust me, getting up is the LAST thing you want to do in a knife combat unless you see him coming from 20 feet like in martial art movies and know what you're doing. Besides, look at the tremendous amount of energy he's saving. He can keep this up for several minutes.
True. It just so happens that in this case the plastics knives just so happen to represent um - knives.
Also, even if there were bricks and bottles the objective is not to stay on the ground. This just so happens be a better method if you DO end up on the ground.
If i was the criminal with knife, i would rush and stab as much as i can even you hit me with the bat, skills like this can only hit people but never taken them donw.
this is a groundfighting drill. no one actually goes to the ground on purpose. still, HIT HIM AND STAND UP FAST!Don't linger. practice getting up from the ground while defending yourself. and, plese. most people will not have a cane. if their old enough to, they aren't strong enough to use it.
Most people carrying a knife in a metropolitan area are breaking the law, especially if then used in a fight, even in self-defense. The good guy guts his attacker but winds up in jail. Go figure, that's the law. A cane is legal. Carry a cane? Carry a knife? Something to think about.
Possibly, depends on many local legal variables however one thing is certain: there are no prima facie laws against carrying a cane. If it's used in self defense where you "felt like you were going to die" it's generally OK depending on the judge. In almost all cases tho a knife (unless you can prove it's for work) is illegal to carry and worse, if used agst a person.
er...17 centimeter weapon versus 150 cm. wow...how practical...
i'd stay on my feet...less tiring than breakdancing thing he's doing. and don't forget the number of time the offenders are in obvious range to slash his legs and head
It's amazing how people don't get it...this is an EXERCISE for increasing mobility IF you need to move, and you will, because who says your attacker going to stand still and wait for you? If he did, OBVIOUSLY you'd get up and run.
i'll just explain in short...i count four slashes to the head...one gaping slash to the torso...and three slashes on the legs...moving like that will also run the blood out of you quicker
Wow, you must be watching a different video. I was there plus I've seen the original camera tapes. He was never touched. He also smashed the knives out of there hands several times and this is with a slow-moving FOAM stick! And I can tell you the silly foam stick hurts like hell.
When he's moving that fast, it'd be hard as hell to effectively throw a knife and kill him dude. And, of course he wouldn't be moving like that when the attacker is away from him.
You are exactly right, but it won't be used anything like an eskrima weapon. Motions used would be more like a bat, a sword, or a short hatchet. The curve at the top is essential for bringing the weapon up for spearing. Cane fighting is an art in itself and has no relation to Philippine styles.
The reason you don't think the cane can be used as a short range weapon is because you don't know HOW to use it as a short range weapon. Got you thinking what that might be, huh? Before you use sarcasm use your brain more. And try looking into the Art of War by Sun Tzu.
To me...this shows the importance of MOBILITY in fighting: your opponent is targeting where you are now; if you don't move at all, you probably will get hit! If you move off the attack line & send some offense back: your attacker has to re-figure the equation & reset in order to hit you (buys you time at the very least).Thanks for posting!
The deal is that when you first see this for the first time you have to get rid of all your preconceived (might have misspelled that) notions on how things work or don't work and just give it some thinking before you cut it down so hard I mean really think about it for a bit then voice your opinion.
I've been doing martial arts for most of my life, and this is not martial arts, he looks like a fish out of water, and in real life he would have been dead in 15 seconds
The fact that it's new to you has nothing to do with its efficacy. But I understand: it's quite an ego blow to see something that doesn't fit into your pre-conceived ideas of what is a martial art, and which is more effective than things that you've been doing for most of your life.
It's easy to talk tough behind your computer screen, isn't it! As for "being in a situation like this", please tell us which superior techniques you used the last time you were in a situation like this. And give us the link to a youtube video that shows a more realistic scenario.
If your observant, you can see how they flinch whenever the weapon gets near them. If they were determined attackers.. such as a mugger, there not going to flinch like a sissy.
At :40 to :44 you see a clear example of this.. if the guy in the orange was serious, the black guys head would have been stomped on at least.
If you were a smart person, you would be able to see that if this were a real fight, the "black guy" would have been moving MUCH faster, kicking MUCH harder, and hitting with his stick MUCH harder. This would cause the attacker to be writhing in pain on the ground, waiting to be killed by said "black guy".
Glad someone else could see this. As with my replies to jerryknuck, I pointed out the fact that if they were devoted attackers such as muggers or rapist they wouldnt be flinching. When training for martial arts you have to train as if you were on the streets, and the person your training with aint your buddy, hes got murder on his mind and not much is going to stop him. These guys are gigglin as if it where just a game! Its a mockery to anyone whos actually been in a streetfight it truely is.
Easy for you to say that the attackers shouldn't flinch, when they know from experience that it hurts like hell every time he hits them - even with the *padded* stick. If you want a truly realistic scenario, then the guy would be swinging a real, unpadded bat or club full force, and would be sending the other guys to the hospital every time they train. As for "real streetfighting", read John Perkins' bio on attackproof(dot)com, and compare your experiences to his.
Your odds against 1 knife are not good regardless; against 2 or more is a nightmare, but that's not the point. In a drill you make it more difficult to hopefully make it easier against the 1.
The point is always to have options and to train them: avoidance, escape, mobility (on your feet and off) a striking delivery system (on your feet and off) and 1 or more attackers.
By dropping to the ground. Basic military and general tactics is that the higher ground has an advantage. The black guy is rolling on the ground beating the bat on the floor. (which is matted) try that in a parking lot, you'd walk away with more back problems then age could give) the other thing is the attacker is just walking back and forth.
Basic military and general tactics doesn't make any difference if you've already fallen. Yeah, yeah we've been thru the "ground is hard" argument a million times on these clips...
...Rolling around on broken glass, bricks and IV needles is nothing compared to getting stabbed in the face and heart. The reason the guy is walking around is because getting hit even with the heavily padded stick hurts like hell and he's trying to get an angle on it to get in. Imagine if it were a bat, a pipe or a metal cane.
That's right, it's a drill. He was practicing getting there first to evade and launch kicks. Maybe we'll post another clip where he's taken down forcibly and involuntarily (which will be difficult since he has a nasty way of stopping takedowns with shots to the neck)...or we could have him fall down voluntarily...oh...we just did that, nevermind.
in that case, i won't need a stick. I'll just say to the attacker "look what's that in the sky!" and then get up and run. But kidding aside, DON'T GO TO THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE so there's no need to get up and run - in the first place. JUST RUN - FOR YOUR LIFE!
If I am standing and you are on the ground with the stick, I will not stab you. Picking stones in the street and threw them to you is better. Do you have training how to evade stones while on the ground?
No problem, but you're missing the point. If the attacker is stopping to pick up stones then the defender has done his job and now has a chance to get up and run.
This is not so practical coz you need to find that fat stick around...what if you don't have??? Plus, it just get your energy drained...what if the ground is rocky??? A good knife figher will just wait and tire you out without much movement...then with simple slice, makes you dead.
I don't think this is meant to depict a real life situation. This is an exercise in reflexes and overall control of the body which will be useful in a fight.
in real-life knife attack, a one hit/blow by a baseball bat to an atttacker will not stop him from stabbing you. Most of the time, even if an attacker is hit on the head by a metal pipe. The reason is the adrenaline pump - in life & death situation, which a martial sport is basically not. The best way to do when you have a baseball bat is to "push-poke" the bat to the head and chest of an attacker to keep him at bay combined with some "opportunistic" heavy hitting on the head.
roger that eden...plus, again, if you notice all the students hesitate giving the instructor time to come around with the bat or feet. If you took BJJ you would know to smother the opponent on the ground, pinning the arm while stabbing to the torso, arm, or legs. Even if this COULD keep you at bay, you could stab and slash at the arms or legs until they become useless. Never go to the ground unless your taken there!
Roger that eden...plus, notice that all the students pause trying to get a clear shot on the instructor. If they dive in and accept that they will get hit somewhat but smother most of the energy of the bat, the instructor is toast as he is on the ground and the student can then get stabby stabby!
Ouch! If you lie on the ground when being attack with a knife - YOU'RE DEAD! Simple as that. Better to run away. But mind you, when you run, don't look back run like hell, and concentrate on running. I've seen victims ran, looked back, TUMBLED, and got stabbed. Just RUN, to a safer place, of course.
Fighting on the ground is always a bad idea unless you end up there anyway. Then what? The broken glass, nails and trash become secondary to stabs in the heart and throat.
Matt, arnis, escrima and kali are the same thing...if you had done this you would know that. The kicks are easily caught or blocked by stepping in and robbing them of their power while stabbing into the foot, calf or thigh. In a fight on the street I would LOVE to see some guy throw himself on the ground and rob himself of his mobility!
They are all FMA and mostly the same with slight differences depending on the area of the Philippines and how much Spanish, American or Chinese influence there's been. When I did JKD they were presented as different flavors of the same thing. As for catching kicks, any athlete with good reflexes can catch a kick to the face or gut (provided they don't lose their lunch). Kicks to shins and knees require you to bend or crouch.
Easy to say if you are watching from a computer screen. But let me tell you that the guy in the video is not only a gifted athlete but a serious fighter as well. I have touched hands (and sticks) with some of the best and high regarded FMA players out there, no comparison.
This is stupid. A stick will beat a knife any day. We're talking about 3' of extension compared to like 4". Not to mention that rolling on the ground like a retard seems a little idiotic. Give any person a bat (regardless of any training) and he will make short work of someone with a knife. End of story.
You wear boxing gloves in the ring to protect your hands and the opponent's face. Does that mean you can't punch without them in the street because you'll hurt your hands?
since the guy is on the ground as he swings the bat and comes back for another swing, close and pin the arm while stabbing...total crap defense against the knife
All the while you're getting your kneecaps broken. Getting kicked with boots is no picnic (oh yeah and the bat too) and to save your life I'd rather risk a stab in the boot or leg than the face, throat, or heart by trying to grab the knife hand.
you stab and slash at the legs until they become useless weapons for the knob on the ground. Try some escrima sometime matt...you might learn something...or keep going to this knobs class and believe grasshopper...believe!
Thanks for the advice. I studied silat, kali and escrima within the JKD system for several years before doing this. What you're missing is the lowline attack angle of these kicks vs. what you're used to from a standing kicker. Do you want to bend over or reach for kicks originating below your knee height? Point me to a youtube clip of your favorite escrima defense vs. kicks from the ground.
it takes more momentum to swing a bat then does a knife. by the time you swing the bat and power up for another swing, if i am anygood with a knife and am seriously trying to kill you, i will have cut or stabbed you at least three times.
From the ground, kicks fill in the intervals between swings of the bat. From a standing position (not shown here) the proper way to use a bat against a knife is with short hacking strikes (much quicker than full swings) or jackhammer spearing strikes.
I guess this drill can be used if you fall down. I'd still prefer to fight standing up using the stick or a bat. What if you are in an uneven ground? Some of the moves are actually cool.
lol! thats stupid !! ??? with a baseball bat against a knive the bat allready has the range advantage ! he would beat them in a straight out fight anyway basic law of kung fu range of weponary !
Is not about who is defending. Its about who is attacking. All you have to do attack. Protect the arm with the knife with your other arm (getting ready for counter), attack the arm the guy uses to attack you or go for the kill (if he cares too much about his arm) if you have an affordable chance. The stick cant take you out of combat before you can stab the guy if you are willling to do what is necessary. In demonstrations its all impressive.
this is bollox lol you have obviuosly no idea what you are talking about ! lol protect your arm with the knife ? firstly there is weight behind a club that is why it will knock you off your feet or nock you down !! don't comment if your gonna come out with that hollywood crap i suppose next you were planning on catching a bullet in your teeth and pulling a monkey out of your arse ?
I have to agree with JoaoSilvaBrasil. The counter is easy. If you are willing to stab or cut someone then you will be willing to take a non-lethal stick strike to do so. The attackers in the vid are very passive compaired to someone who is out to cause you real harm.
Even a light walking stick will break your fingers if it catches you right ! Either way it is going to hurt like hell for a while. Nice to watch !
vince38curious2 9 months ago
Although it looks like a waste of energy to move like that, it also looks intimidating to approach. And it looks like it would definitely help in getting up back to our feet.
fdesa12 9 months ago
@fdesa12 The drill of course uses way more energy to experiment with all possible angles.
mattkovsky 9 months ago
this is a legit defence against multiple opponents, i believe bruce lee did something similar in Fist of Fury
KidDynamite40 1 year ago
biohax, your statement about the manner in which the knife wielders are holding the knives has zero validity. We aren't dueling in a mano y mano fashion so if you find out what kind of grip the attacker has, you're probably already dead.
UniversalStandards 1 year ago
looks intresting. do you think you get enough power out of those swings to matter?
MrSaber152 1 year ago
@MrSaber152 Yes and unfortunately we have the injuries to prove it.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
what a bunch of newbs...experienced knife fighters never lead with the knife or leave it so exposed. look at how lightly they're gripping the knife and how uncommitted their attacks are too. in exercises like this, the attack should use good form as much as the defender.
biohax 1 year ago
Try this in a rock solid floor!
andrezancanaro 1 year ago
@andrezancanaro We do.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@andrezancanaro We do. Good practice.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@mattkovsky Sweet.
TripleM87 1 year ago
Great drill! Just watching this shows how important conditioning can be. I got "gassed out" ust watching the guy lol.
itlfa2009 1 year ago
@NHTN, I don't agree but understand your perspective. If you use your legs in a defensive (anticipatory), static position, it leaves you open to someone stomping or doing a sacrifice dive and stab on you. The instructor is constantly shifting positions to prevent being perfectly targeted, and using great restraint also because this is only a demo. We believe being on the ground more than 10 secs is a huge mistake.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
Well when you have a stick it might be different. Also, being a ground fighting drill, he didn't stand up, because that's the point of the "ground fighting" drill, to be on the ground. These skills definatly come in handy if you end up on the ground. Also,when two people are constantly attacking you,what I learned in Karate is when the person is on the ground they arn't defenceless,but they are quite defenceless when in the middle of getting up,which might be why he stay down???I don't know.
GuamKomudo 1 year ago
this technique isn't very good. its only a matter of time until the guy on the ground gets tired and becomes defensless.
not to mention, when you're moving like that its almost impossible to really aim with your strikes. and believe me, not ALL (many are) strikes with a stick are deadly or even that damaging.
shoulung 2 years ago
We don't believe ALL strikes are deadly or damaging which is why our demos look so wild and unplanned. The reality is that there are VERY FEW humans who can take multiple drop strikes which have the impact of hammers or even sledgehammers, yet and still we train as if they can take repeated shots and be unaffected. You may want to think twice before criticizing our training because many of us have actually been exposed to the fray and it's much more than theory.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
@UniversalStandards
The problem is the attackers here do not really have the mindset of killing the instructor. You can see the reluctance to attack. What if they really wanted to kill, throw themselves at the instructor and randomly stab him?
NobodyHasThisNick 2 years ago
This is what kids do naturally when fighting on the ground! An adult with boots on makes it even more dangerous.
Why change what is natural?
BJJ comes a very poor second!
universalclosecombat 2 years ago
Great post and you're dead on. Something a lot of people seem not to realize is that we train with people who have BJJ, Judo and Ju Jitsu training all of the time and guess what? They can't use it. I'm not saying it's useless because I surely know that I can't outgrapple one of them, but if you can't use it for realistic fighting it's not what we are interested in. I'm sure there are many cases where it can be used, its just that this system has far more effective methods.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
@UniversalStandards. Great response. I would of lost respect or Guided Chaos practictioners if you had dismissed the dangers a skilled grappler can pose. It says a lot about the validity of the system. I wish you guys were closer to where I am. I know I could learn a lot.
itlfa2009 1 year ago
Where are you guys located and train? Don't worry, I'm not trying to challenge your training method lol.
Edalb123 2 years ago
attackproofDOTcom
mattkovsky 2 years ago
kinda looked crazy, and random til i saw the defense against two attackers... looks effective enough to me.
zombiegrease 2 years ago
not to bash this but i cracked up... it makes me think they shoulda shown a jedi toddler throwing a temper tantrum in starwars, i think it woulda looked something like that :p
I really honestly have no clue if this would work, but if you really wanted to learn to defend yourself against multiple attackers with knives... why not just buy a gun and get a concealed carry permit?
xesogycit 3 years ago
Concealed carry permits are almost impossible to get unless your brother-in-law is a judge---and even then probably not. You can buy the gun, use it, and wind up in jail for the rest of your life while your attacker stays on the street, free to rape or kill again.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
Not if you don't miss...but you're right. A gun in public is only a scare tactic. If you can't scare the guy off with the gun, it's really just a club, as you will get reamed for using it since it's "excessive force" even though the guy attacking you has a knife and will kill you if allowed to get close enough. Gotta love the justice system.
AdotJdot999 2 years ago
depends where you are i suppose... where i live (the upper peninsula of michigan) it is fairly easy to get a concealed carry permit. there is just a place you go to take a class and you get one as long as you pass the safety test, i think you need to pass a target practice test for some reason but i could be wrong, and you can't have any felonies on your record. and with new agreements with other states the permits will work in them, too.
xesogycit 2 years ago
only if your aim is bad
scopeophile 2 years ago
@mattkovsky Depends on your state. Washington state is a "Shall Issue" and has give your a CHL in I think 30 days if you qualify. Any "Shall Issue" WILL give it to you, it's the "May Issue" that you will have some trouble in depending on local government officials (the Sheriff, I believe has the final word).
SkiNut33 1 year ago
Yeah I am skeptical. I love stick fighting, but this doesn't look effective. I could be wrong.
I love how they take one shot, even glancing ones, and back off. Not realistic.
dungeongrappling 2 years ago
Although it's padded to avoid broken bones, that training cane is heavy and HURTS when it hits. It's nearly impossible to time because the movement is so varied and unpredictable. Finally, with a full weight steel or steel+wood cane, single shots delivered like this DO break bones. Gotta try working against someone who knows how to do this well.
arikandel2002 2 years ago
even htough it looks funny it might be affective.
VBH8888 3 years ago
I'm sure I can combine these principles with my savate canne skills! ;)
Thunderhouse2 3 years ago
Very intresting, good method use a regular stick?
TheSantanaPker 3 years ago
This is very interesting, but there is a weakness - the ground. A gravel road or sand would be at the very least diminish your speed and agility. Even a random rock or a small stump could hit your vertebrae.
Kolajer 3 years ago 5
We agree. We honestly try to avoid the ground at all costs, but if you do get down there it's a necessity to get up ASAP. You can't see it here but we do exercises where we transition from the ground to our feet as quickly as possible without the assistance of our hands. Sometimes people will argue points about this system, but the fact of the matter as I've said is that these youtube vids only breeze over the surface. Thanks for commenting.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
If you had seen it in a class you'd realize what you're missing in context. Attackers hold back because the kicks and foam-padded rubber stick hurt like hell--I have the welts to prove it--and the defender is pulling his shots tremendously. With full power kicks and a real cane there IS no fight--and no more training partners. This is done with visitors to our school also if they wish so everyone can share the pain. The school is always open to serious and curious non-jerks.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
Matt, you realize you're wasting your time arguing with an 18-year-old? I knew everything worth knowing about the world when I was 18 as well. . . .
arikandel2002 3 years ago 10
I've never seen this drill in any classes and how would you know? you're also sitting in front of a computer if that's the case. the attackers have plenty of opportunity to get a stab, they're just holding back. i would love to see someone outside of your classes taking the position of the attacker. throwdown... no. disproving this is an ineffective system... yes.
djxsubzero 3 years ago
Any smart person would wait for the guy to get tired...about one minute for most chumps, three for a seasoned athlete. The best "Defense" Is to carry a gun, or GTFO
CalicoatMaker 3 years ago
This wasn't meant to be an IQ test. This is a drill dude. Any smart person on the ground doesn't flail around just for the exercise. Duh. You hang out and wait for the advance. If the enemy wants to hang out then obviously you get up and run.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
this is bullcrap. in the time the guy spends rolling around with a stick, i can watch the timing to jump in. there's plenty of gaps open for attack. and as for the guys hesitating to jump in, i'd trade a hit or two if it meant my strike was going to be more lethal. this is something i would have done when i was a kid, not self-defense.
djxsubzero 3 years ago
This is a drill dude. You don't roll around unless you're attacked. You don't go to the ground unless you fall. Forensic homicide reports support the survivability of fighting a knife from the ground vs. attacking the knife hand from a stand-up position.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
if going to the ground was just an option, then how come he didn't open the video with him fighting stand-up. he starts with swinging a stick instead? and by the fact you provided, you're saying that you automatically go to the ground when faced with a knife because it's the safest. you're only contradicting your first statement.
djxsubzero 3 years ago
That's because this is a drill meant to increase ground mobility by over-training it. If you had bothered to read any of these threads on any of the clips you so knowledgeably commented on you would see that the points I've made have been repeated hundred times for the ADD crowd. So to repeat again for the 100th time, you fight on the ground if you've fallen or have no other option (other than presenting your face, throat and heart with a "weapon apprehension" like a carved meatloaf).
mattkovsky 3 years ago
That's not drilling, he's straight up using this as a self-defense. If this is an option, where is the other video where he shows how to fight with a stick standing up? additionally, his back, kidneys, stomach are still exposed. and i never mentioned weapon apprehension in this. if i has a stick, i'd use it because it's a long range weapon, why would i worry about getting his knife? do you really want to put your theory to the test? i'll fly to wherever you are, your fighters vs. mine.
djxsubzero 3 years ago
Oh I see, you know how this drill is used in a class you've never seen because you're sitting at a computer. And you're also omniscient, sure that upright stick techniques can't exist because you don't see a clip for it. Back, kidneys, stomach exposed how? And you talked about weapon apprehension on the other ground clips simultaneously. Sticks and legs are both longer range weapons than arms. You want to see this or try? You're welcome to visit. Want a "throwdown?--go to another website.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
if you're on the ground, the attacker has the advantage because he follows gravity to strike and has control because he's in the dominant position. why do you think mma fighters who are the ground try to keep their opponent in the guard? ...to keep them from having more leverage. the attacker can move around while you're laying there or rolling randomly and time when to strike.
djxsubzero 3 years ago
If you don't think there's a difference between being kicked barefoot (MMA) and with boots on you need to stop drinking the koolaid. Go kick a brick wall barefoot and tell me what you feel. The guard is meant for 2 people trying to submit each other in a rules-based sportive environment, not to send them to the next world. And again, if the attacker has time to "move around" you have time to get up and run. You don't lay on the ground soaking up the sun.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
the ground fighting might be the least thing u wanna do as u can't evade and advance properly and effectively, what if somebody started trowing rocks? in krav maga we're always taught to stay on our feet that stick is long and can hit the opponent way before he can slash, why go on the ground? just stay on ur feet, somebody comes, swing the bat, nothing fancy there...
zxcvbnmbsbs 3 years ago
it's only been repeated about 1,000 times, so here's 1,001: you don't just throw yourself on the ground, this is an option if you fall or are thrown to the ground by the enemy. The rubber stick represent either a found weapon or a cane.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
Great in theory but there's something that's bugging me about this. It's assuming that a single strike delivered in this manner will stop an opponent.
stayhidden 3 years ago
You've obviously never trained with us.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
Nice stuff. It's refreshing to see more training out of the traditional box that so many are trapped in. Well done!
BillKipp 3 years ago
lol.. i am a grappler/wrestler. the "DEMO" you are referring to looks the way it does because the guy on the ground is trying to not heart the attackers. This stuff is for real. the guy on the ground is taking it easy on the attaches'. I have been a student at a couple of classes and the balls out way of a wrestler or mma attacker will be seriously hurt. every time. it is humbling.
moby822 3 years ago
A stick is not gonna stop a knife-wielding mugger on PCP
gunther15 3 years ago
In some cases, this may be true. John Perkins' experience bears this out. However, a stout cane wielded with skill to break legs can at least immobilize the PCP freak. Break arms and he'll have trouble knifing you.
What would YOU suggest, short of multiple bullets to the head? (This is, in fact, what we strongly suggest in the scenario you mention--but not everyone owns or carries a gun, so they need alternatives.)
arikandel2002 3 years ago
I can see the very restrictive rules to protect the fellow on the mat in this demo. The knife wielders were not allowed to grapple or be struck more than once. In reality the knife wielder would take a glancing blow from the umbrella before putting his knee of foot on the throat of the lad on the ground and then multiple stabbing him to death.
Woodcrafter1372 3 years ago 2
Care to try?
SOME of the sequences in this clip were intended to be "demos." But no rules apply (besides "don't bring a real weapon into play" for safety) when new folks (many of them quite skeptical, and many of them grapplers or otherwise trained) come into class to try things out. So far, none have been able to do anything like what you describe. That padded stick still hurts like heck when it hits you hard, and you see what a real cane can do. Plus, the ground kicks can ruin your day.
arikandel2002 3 years ago
This is the last thing an attacker would expect to happen in a victims movement. He can dissapear from sight level and crush knees with a cane by using full body unity. He can also shatter bones with the legs. Trust me the instinct is to not even get near him even with a padded stick because you feel it.
skywalkr2000 3 years ago
Come on. It clearly takes more energy to move around like that.
I'm not questioning effectiveness here but don't insult our intelligence either.
If this is saving tremendous amounts of energy then I would hate to see what wasting tremendous amounts of energy is...
JKDLIFER 4 years ago 2
JKDLIFER, you seem to think you know a hell of a lot about stuff you clearly don't know anything about. I would look further into this than a few YouTube clips if I were you before commenting so authoritatively. Hands-on experience is very telling.
arikandel2002 4 years ago
The guy in the video(a KCD master B.T.W.)barely breaks a sweat with this. Observe the way he rolls to perfect positions to deal with the knifers using alligator rolls and full body unity. He can move to spots faster than they can run around his legs. One of the tougher skills to master here is the 4 limb independence needed to thrash with your legs and independently swing the stick at a different target. This "split brain" ability is a very useful skill when fighting 2 or more opponents.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
I would imagine that in a real situation with real weapons and real danger, adrenaline would play a huge role in the movements in the ground fight. the fight in reality would go much quicker and end much faster then the exercise. So the amount of energy used in the fight would be quantified differently than in the controlled situation shown in the example above. still a useful exercise in terms of getting used to being on the ground though, I would think.
triune99 4 years ago
ColonelMarksman, with all due respect, that comment doesn't make sense at all. "Getting up" in a knife fight is last thing you want to do? Really? What happens in confined spaces? Do you curl up in the fetal position on the floor? He's wasting less energy by moving around like that on the floor?
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
I interpreted his statement as meaning, "Don't get up prematurely, such that you'll get stabbed while trying to get up," and I agree. In confined spaces, you could dominate the whole space with your legs while keeping most of your vitals out of reach (see the vs. knife clip in the Hellevator training box). It really doesn't take huge amounts of energy once you learn and train how to do it well. All is relative, however.
arikandel2002 4 years ago
From studying the knife weilders, I just noticed they're martial artists, not some street people. As for throwing the knives, I thought of that too, but throwing knives is a surprisingly EXTREMELY difficult art to master, and trying to throw a knive at someone wildly swinging about and rolling on the ground...
ColonelMarksman 4 years ago
First let me say that I'm not trying to be disrespectful but it really looks chaotic. Not to mention that if someone is trying to stab me, I'm going to hit and then get up, not stay on the floor. I was getting dizzy just looking at him.
But hey if it works for him, then use it.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
It's a drill to develop the ground movement skill. In reality, you're right: Hit from the ground in order to gain time and space to get up. Guess what: real violence IS chaotic. Attempting to impose order on the chaos will work only if you're physically FAR superior (bigger, stronger, faster) and all else is equal (one-on-one, open space, no weapons, etc.). Otherwise, train to function effectively in chaos. Create it and thrive in it. That's the idea.
arikandel2002 4 years ago
Oh trust me, getting up is the LAST thing you want to do in a knife combat unless you see him coming from 20 feet like in martial art movies and know what you're doing. Besides, look at the tremendous amount of energy he's saving. He can keep this up for several minutes.
ColonelMarksman 4 years ago
they forgot that knife can be use as a projectile weapon. it doesn't have to be a knife, it can be a rock, a bottle, etc.
DimpleDog 4 years ago
True. It just so happens that in this case the plastics knives just so happen to represent um - knives.
Also, even if there were bricks and bottles the objective is not to stay on the ground. This just so happens be a better method if you DO end up on the ground.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
nice drill but wont it be cinda inconveneant to carry around a bat all the time?
seekerofvision678 4 years ago
yes but we do advocate a steel cane which is legal while most knives are not.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
they are? where?
seekerofvision678 4 years ago
These laws are typical:
attackproof(dot)com/laws-regarding-knives(dot)html
mattkovsky 4 years ago
What hell is this? A dog play???
If i was the criminal with knife, i would rush and stab as much as i can even you hit me with the bat, skills like this can only hit people but never taken them donw.
wohenzhuce 4 years ago
Forensic homicide reports indicate you have a greater chance of dying from a baseball bat attack than a knife attack.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Well, youll never hear os someone dying with just one stab...
stabbing is a passion crime... if that makes sense.
theeres always multiple stabs.
trevorru10 4 years ago
this is a groundfighting drill. no one actually goes to the ground on purpose. still, HIT HIM AND STAND UP FAST!Don't linger. practice getting up from the ground while defending yourself. and, plese. most people will not have a cane. if their old enough to, they aren't strong enough to use it.
emulare 4 years ago
Most people carrying a knife in a metropolitan area are breaking the law, especially if then used in a fight, even in self-defense. The good guy guts his attacker but winds up in jail. Go figure, that's the law. A cane is legal. Carry a cane? Carry a knife? Something to think about.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
if you kill an attacket with a cane through strikes to the head...you still go to jail...
if you hit him more than enough to disarm...you go to jail
brinquedo 4 years ago
Possibly, depends on many local legal variables however one thing is certain: there are no prima facie laws against carrying a cane. If it's used in self defense where you "felt like you were going to die" it's generally OK depending on the judge. In almost all cases tho a knife (unless you can prove it's for work) is illegal to carry and worse, if used agst a person.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
er...17 centimeter weapon versus 150 cm. wow...how practical...
i'd stay on my feet...less tiring than breakdancing thing he's doing. and don't forget the number of time the offenders are in obvious range to slash his legs and head
brinquedo 4 years ago
Sometimes you can't stay on your feet.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
even if i fall down...i'd prefer not rolling around in random....i'd look and aim where it matters
brinquedo 4 years ago
It's amazing how people don't get it...this is an EXERCISE for increasing mobility IF you need to move, and you will, because who says your attacker going to stand still and wait for you? If he did, OBVIOUSLY you'd get up and run.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
i'll just explain in short...i count four slashes to the head...one gaping slash to the torso...and three slashes on the legs...moving like that will also run the blood out of you quicker
brinquedo 4 years ago
Wow, you must be watching a different video. I was there plus I've seen the original camera tapes. He was never touched. He also smashed the knives out of there hands several times and this is with a slow-moving FOAM stick! And I can tell you the silly foam stick hurts like hell.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
some options for the knife attackers:
1. throw the knife
2. wait until he gets tired
3. the first two combined.
but never the less, if you come in a situation like this, ok, looks good. but better fight standing, that's why sticks are made for.
decebal01 4 years ago
When he's moving that fast, it'd be hard as hell to effectively throw a knife and kill him dude. And, of course he wouldn't be moving like that when the attacker is away from him.
NumaNuma187 4 years ago
that's some fancy ground, stick work. but what are the chances of a civilian holding a stick? this is training strictly for cops with batons.
shredieshred 4 years ago
This applies to carrying a cane (which is legal) as opposed to most knives (which are not).
mattkovsky 4 years ago
a cane will be too long to use it like an Eskrima weapon.
Plus that curve at the top of the cane
Nhia89 4 years ago
You are exactly right, but it won't be used anything like an eskrima weapon. Motions used would be more like a bat, a sword, or a short hatchet. The curve at the top is essential for bringing the weapon up for spearing. Cane fighting is an art in itself and has no relation to Philippine styles.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
True i agree but any aggressive, adrenaline pump dude could just step in, take the hit, grab the weapon and continue his assault on the cane fighter.
And the cane is too long to use it as a short range weapon if the attacker closes the gap.
Got u thinking of all the possibilities how it might backfire on ya huh?
No fighting style will ever help u in a fight.
its all about speed, strength, stamina, and brains. No techniques.
Nhia89 4 years ago
The reason you don't think the cane can be used as a short range weapon is because you don't know HOW to use it as a short range weapon. Got you thinking what that might be, huh? Before you use sarcasm use your brain more. And try looking into the Art of War by Sun Tzu.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
I read that already and i think it was pretty boring.
I preferred "The 36 War Strategies of China" and "The Prince" by Niccolò Machiavelli.
And a few William Shakespeare stuff.
And Bruce Lee stuff of course, some ancient Greek poems and philosophy.
You should try reading some Socrates.
And i wasn't being sarcastic and if i was, i'm sorry.
Nhia89 4 years ago
If someone jumps on him, he will get one hit and not more. If the "Stickfighter" is lucky he hit the attacker with a kick and thats it.
Than is the Attacker over him and we have a dead man with a stick.
And in fact he cant do this much faster because he cant roll much faster and controll his strikes too.
Dadauka 4 years ago 2
haha that looks like fun
AznNinja4U 4 years ago 2
To me...this shows the importance of MOBILITY in fighting: your opponent is targeting where you are now; if you don't move at all, you probably will get hit! If you move off the attack line & send some offense back: your attacker has to re-figure the equation & reset in order to hit you (buys you time at the very least).Thanks for posting!
sto9joe 4 years ago
man that style would be really hard to teach other people!
Garethtkd 4 years ago
The deal is that when you first see this for the first time you have to get rid of all your preconceived (might have misspelled that) notions on how things work or don't work and just give it some thinking before you cut it down so hard I mean really think about it for a bit then voice your opinion.
RockinMa4Bo 4 years ago
pretty cool... more power
Sitbatan 4 years ago
I've been doing martial arts for most of my life, and this is not martial arts, he looks like a fish out of water, and in real life he would have been dead in 15 seconds
goalie4life1830 4 years ago 2
The fact that it's new to you has nothing to do with its efficacy. But I understand: it's quite an ego blow to see something that doesn't fit into your pre-conceived ideas of what is a martial art, and which is more effective than things that you've been doing for most of your life.
jerryknuck 4 years ago
You obviously have no idea what your talking about, and your observation skills are that of a 4 year old.
You talk about "efficacy" as if youve been in a situation like this. But I can tell you, right now, that if you tried this on me youd be dead.
ReviewedComic 4 years ago
It's easy to talk tough behind your computer screen, isn't it! As for "being in a situation like this", please tell us which superior techniques you used the last time you were in a situation like this. And give us the link to a youtube video that shows a more realistic scenario.
jerryknuck 4 years ago
If your observant, you can see how they flinch whenever the weapon gets near them. If they were determined attackers.. such as a mugger, there not going to flinch like a sissy.
At :40 to :44 you see a clear example of this.. if the guy in the orange was serious, the black guys head would have been stomped on at least.
ReviewedComic 4 years ago
If you were a smart person, you would be able to see that if this were a real fight, the "black guy" would have been moving MUCH faster, kicking MUCH harder, and hitting with his stick MUCH harder. This would cause the attacker to be writhing in pain on the ground, waiting to be killed by said "black guy".
NumaNuma187 4 years ago
Glad someone else could see this. As with my replies to jerryknuck, I pointed out the fact that if they were devoted attackers such as muggers or rapist they wouldnt be flinching. When training for martial arts you have to train as if you were on the streets, and the person your training with aint your buddy, hes got murder on his mind and not much is going to stop him. These guys are gigglin as if it where just a game! Its a mockery to anyone whos actually been in a streetfight it truely is.
ReviewedComic 4 years ago
Easy for you to say that the attackers shouldn't flinch, when they know from experience that it hurts like hell every time he hits them - even with the *padded* stick. If you want a truly realistic scenario, then the guy would be swinging a real, unpadded bat or club full force, and would be sending the other guys to the hospital every time they train. As for "real streetfighting", read John Perkins' bio on attackproof(dot)com, and compare your experiences to his.
jerryknuck 4 years ago
lol
looks like break dancing with a baseball bat 0_o
I like it!
mrjesse999 4 years ago
yeah. its very effective versus 1 knife attacker and maybe 2
but i really do not see you defending versus even 1 man with 2 knives but yeah its good to know some of this close quarters stuff
ive been practicing jiu jitsu for 4 years and the close quarters grappling vs knife made me realize that im gonna run from a guy with a knife haha
Scruge21 4 years ago
Your odds against 1 knife are not good regardless; against 2 or more is a nightmare, but that's not the point. In a drill you make it more difficult to hopefully make it easier against the 1.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Well what if that is the point!
Myderion 4 years ago
The point is always to have options and to train them: avoidance, escape, mobility (on your feet and off) a striking delivery system (on your feet and off) and 1 or more attackers.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
By dropping to the ground. Basic military and general tactics is that the higher ground has an advantage. The black guy is rolling on the ground beating the bat on the floor. (which is matted) try that in a parking lot, you'd walk away with more back problems then age could give) the other thing is the attacker is just walking back and forth.
Myderion 4 years ago
Basic military and general tactics doesn't make any difference if you've already fallen. Yeah, yeah we've been thru the "ground is hard" argument a million times on these clips...
mattkovsky 4 years ago
...Rolling around on broken glass, bricks and IV needles is nothing compared to getting stabbed in the face and heart. The reason the guy is walking around is because getting hit even with the heavily padded stick hurts like hell and he's trying to get an angle on it to get in. Imagine if it were a bat, a pipe or a metal cane.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
BUT THE POINT IS HE DROPPED TO THE GROUND! He wasn't in any situation where he was forced to the gournd he rolled right to it!
Myderion 4 years ago
That's right, it's a drill. He was practicing getting there first to evade and launch kicks. Maybe we'll post another clip where he's taken down forcibly and involuntarily (which will be difficult since he has a nasty way of stopping takedowns with shots to the neck)...or we could have him fall down voluntarily...oh...we just did that, nevermind.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
the first 20 seconds should be called, "Man with Stick vs. Mat."
ajablonowski 4 years ago
in that case, i won't need a stick. I'll just say to the attacker "look what's that in the sky!" and then get up and run. But kidding aside, DON'T GO TO THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE so there's no need to get up and run - in the first place. JUST RUN - FOR YOUR LIFE!
Jakeholmas 4 years ago
If I am standing and you are on the ground with the stick, I will not stab you. Picking stones in the street and threw them to you is better. Do you have training how to evade stones while on the ground?
huglaes 4 years ago
No problem, but you're missing the point. If the attacker is stopping to pick up stones then the defender has done his job and now has a chance to get up and run.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
This is not so practical coz you need to find that fat stick around...what if you don't have??? Plus, it just get your energy drained...what if the ground is rocky??? A good knife figher will just wait and tire you out without much movement...then with simple slice, makes you dead.
lemuel88 4 years ago
you cant stop a knife fighter with stick. but all your other vids are very good
combatescrima 4 years ago
actually you can but the guy in the video doesn't know how. I saw a cop knock out a guy with a knife with his baton.
blairblade 4 years ago 2
Hi
I don't think this is meant to depict a real life situation. This is an exercise in reflexes and overall control of the body which will be useful in a fight.
descartes75 4 years ago
in real-life knife attack, a one hit/blow by a baseball bat to an atttacker will not stop him from stabbing you. Most of the time, even if an attacker is hit on the head by a metal pipe. The reason is the adrenaline pump - in life & death situation, which a martial sport is basically not. The best way to do when you have a baseball bat is to "push-poke" the bat to the head and chest of an attacker to keep him at bay combined with some "opportunistic" heavy hitting on the head.
edenapple 4 years ago
roger that eden...plus, again, if you notice all the students hesitate giving the instructor time to come around with the bat or feet. If you took BJJ you would know to smother the opponent on the ground, pinning the arm while stabbing to the torso, arm, or legs. Even if this COULD keep you at bay, you could stab and slash at the arms or legs until they become useless. Never go to the ground unless your taken there!
MarcElliott 4 years ago
Roger that eden...plus, notice that all the students pause trying to get a clear shot on the instructor. If they dive in and accept that they will get hit somewhat but smother most of the energy of the bat, the instructor is toast as he is on the ground and the student can then get stabby stabby!
MarcElliott 4 years ago
Ouch! If you lie on the ground when being attack with a knife - YOU'RE DEAD! Simple as that. Better to run away. But mind you, when you run, don't look back run like hell, and concentrate on running. I've seen victims ran, looked back, TUMBLED, and got stabbed. Just RUN, to a safer place, of course.
edenapple 4 years ago
try this on asphalt littered with broken glass when you are wearing shorts and a t shirt.
emulare 4 years ago
Fighting on the ground is always a bad idea unless you end up there anyway. Then what? The broken glass, nails and trash become secondary to stabs in the heart and throat.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
The guy swinging the stick and rolling around crazy on the floor like he has seizure. I dont think that move even exists.
phillipngyn 4 years ago
Matt, arnis, escrima and kali are the same thing...if you had done this you would know that. The kicks are easily caught or blocked by stepping in and robbing them of their power while stabbing into the foot, calf or thigh. In a fight on the street I would LOVE to see some guy throw himself on the ground and rob himself of his mobility!
MarcElliott 4 years ago
They are all FMA and mostly the same with slight differences depending on the area of the Philippines and how much Spanish, American or Chinese influence there's been. When I did JKD they were presented as different flavors of the same thing. As for catching kicks, any athlete with good reflexes can catch a kick to the face or gut (provided they don't lose their lunch). Kicks to shins and knees require you to bend or crouch.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Since we are touching on FMA and "going to ground", I could see an experience Dumog practitioner with a knife end that flailing about. Just my $0.02.
rshawtx 4 years ago
Easy to say if you are watching from a computer screen. But let me tell you that the guy in the video is not only a gifted athlete but a serious fighter as well. I have touched hands (and sticks) with some of the best and high regarded FMA players out there, no comparison.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
This is stupid. A stick will beat a knife any day. We're talking about 3' of extension compared to like 4". Not to mention that rolling on the ground like a retard seems a little idiotic. Give any person a bat (regardless of any training) and he will make short work of someone with a knife. End of story.
ewenit 4 years ago
notice the pad underneath the guy. he would be hurting on asphalt.
emulare 4 years ago
You wear boxing gloves in the ring to protect your hands and the opponent's face. Does that mean you can't punch without them in the street because you'll hurt your hands?
mattkovsky 4 years ago
since the guy is on the ground as he swings the bat and comes back for another swing, close and pin the arm while stabbing...total crap defense against the knife
MarcElliott 4 years ago
what about the kicks?
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Stab the legs as he kicks them at you
MarcElliott 4 years ago 2
All the while you're getting your kneecaps broken. Getting kicked with boots is no picnic (oh yeah and the bat too) and to save your life I'd rather risk a stab in the boot or leg than the face, throat, or heart by trying to grab the knife hand.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
you stab and slash at the legs until they become useless weapons for the knob on the ground. Try some escrima sometime matt...you might learn something...or keep going to this knobs class and believe grasshopper...believe!
MarcElliott 4 years ago
Thanks for the advice. I studied silat, kali and escrima within the JKD system for several years before doing this. What you're missing is the lowline attack angle of these kicks vs. what you're used to from a standing kicker. Do you want to bend over or reach for kicks originating below your knee height? Point me to a youtube clip of your favorite escrima defense vs. kicks from the ground.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Throwing knives are also specially designed and made. Ordinary knives generally aren't weighted right.
cypher1024 4 years ago
dude be real. throwing ur knife is disarming urself and u have a large chance of missing
CaPnBaLlBaG 4 years ago
if you are skilled in knife throwing do that against the guy with bat.
Edsgex 4 years ago
this drill exist in avcı escrima too
sihingalkan 4 years ago 2
everytime you kick at me, i take a chunk out your leg with my curved, serated blade.
judoka916 4 years ago
it takes more momentum to swing a bat then does a knife. by the time you swing the bat and power up for another swing, if i am anygood with a knife and am seriously trying to kill you, i will have cut or stabbed you at least three times.
judoka916 4 years ago
From the ground, kicks fill in the intervals between swings of the bat. From a standing position (not shown here) the proper way to use a bat against a knife is with short hacking strikes (much quicker than full swings) or jackhammer spearing strikes.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Maybe it works but that's funny as heck.
MDDGntrpryziz 4 years ago
what if they throw the knives?
philmydang 4 years ago
I guess this drill can be used if you fall down. I'd still prefer to fight standing up using the stick or a bat. What if you are in an uneven ground? Some of the moves are actually cool.
coolwaterdvr 4 years ago
what a pile of pooh to easy to counter and enter never would that work sorry
buffalo82 4 years ago
lol! thats stupid !! ??? with a baseball bat against a knive the bat allready has the range advantage ! he would beat them in a straight out fight anyway basic law of kung fu range of weponary !
ShoalinPunk 4 years ago
tHAT IS A baseball bat. Not a stick. . . and if u were doing that how bout i just stand and watch u roll on the ground?
jonjon2034 4 years ago
Is not about who is defending. Its about who is attacking. All you have to do attack. Protect the arm with the knife with your other arm (getting ready for counter), attack the arm the guy uses to attack you or go for the kill (if he cares too much about his arm) if you have an affordable chance. The stick cant take you out of combat before you can stab the guy if you are willling to do what is necessary. In demonstrations its all impressive.
JoaoSilvaBrasil 4 years ago
this is bollox lol you have obviuosly no idea what you are talking about ! lol protect your arm with the knife ? firstly there is weight behind a club that is why it will knock you off your feet or nock you down !! don't comment if your gonna come out with that hollywood crap i suppose next you were planning on catching a bullet in your teeth and pulling a monkey out of your arse ?
ShoalinPunk 4 years ago
the guy is master level however the moves are so basic that many people get it in a few weeks.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
I have to agree with JoaoSilvaBrasil. The counter is easy. If you are willing to stab or cut someone then you will be willing to take a non-lethal stick strike to do so. The attackers in the vid are very passive compaired to someone who is out to cause you real harm.
tacedgeinc 4 years ago