If you pay close attention you'll notice that the smoke leaving the building appears to be 'breathing.' It looks almost as if the smoke is being pushed outwards and then sucked back in. This is a very very good warning sign of a backdraft and it is really noticeable in this video.
see this is why us firefighters get trained so we dont have this little accidents but in the fire ground you never know what might happen. props to all those who suport us firefighters but aslo suport ems and law enforcement.
Yes they were all fine. And this is not a flashover. It is a backdraft. When the fire is out and there is no more O2 left inside. Some one opens the door and fresh O2 comes in and the whole building goes off again. I just learned this in my fire class tonight.
... there had to be something else in that building or the whole thing was fairly confined
and full or a LOT of heat and pop! Someone just opened up a good hole in back of the fire and whoom! Breath!! Like to have seen more of the scene to see what the smoke did after that explosion... That was all super-heated air & gasses...I hope thoseguys didn't catch that heat too badly... that doorway became a heatfunnel on 'em!
To me, a firefighter is a person with brass balls or something else. While everyone instinctively runs away, the firefighter runs towards. Isn't that trying to make a real difference?
idk if they survived or not, but being a firefighter myself, i think they probably survived, albeit with some pretty serious burns and injuries from being blown back
@fireEMS347 < Flashovers do not explode like that. Flashover is when the heat builds up and everything flares up at once, like a campfire when you blow on the kindling to start it and it gets hot enough for the whole little pile to light. This fire sucked in all the air it could and exploded, big difference.
If you want to see a good example of flashover look up on here -A True Classic NJ fire-
@fireEMS347 If it was ventilated the hole sure as hell wasn't big enough for that hot smoke breathing beast. Textbook Backdraft. Its pressurized, hot thick choking rolling smoke, breathing in and out of the building. Ask those guys picking their asses up off the ground what they think that freight train that hit them was!
Classic backdraft, watch the smoke, gets sucked in and the puffed out sucked in puffed out, when it finally gets a good charge of O2, boom. I'm suprised they didn't pick up on the warning signs, it was happening for a while.
I'm a bit confused by this. I thought a backdraught is caused by the introduction of oxygen into a container that has sufficient fuel and heat for the smoke layer to ignite instantaneously. In the vidoe it appears more like a violent flashover. Can anyone help with this?
You are correct, this is actually a flashover and not a backdraft. Flashover is the rapid transition between the growth and fully developed fire stages. When flashover occurs burning gases push out of openings in the compartment (what you see here) at a substantial velocity. You can see here where they are trying to cool the radiant heated area to keep the fire from going fully developed. Bidirectional airflow, flame and smoke all are strong indicators for flashover. Hope this helps.
You can see by the activity of the smoke, getting drawn in and then out, that this is a good sign of a backdraft. A flashover would be when the smoke, which is flammable gas, in the building ignite simultaneously. Not having been there, I can't say for sure, but it looks like a backdraft to me.
The reason I say this is because a backdraft will occur in a pressurized situation. The building breathing like it is in the video makes me lean toward backdraft. In a flashover there is sufficient oxygen in a room full of gas. I think that there were two floors invloved. I thing the bottom floor may have been free burning and the top floor pressurized.
i just watched this in my fire science class 2day and my teacher said it was backdraft becouse of the added oxygen but the smoke doesnt ignite flashover is where everything gets heated to its ignition point and everything ignites in flame yes including the smoke ignites as well dont if i am any help or not but i tried
This actually happened in my hometown. Just wanted to let everyone know that NO firefighters were killed. 3 were sent to the hospital though. Be safe guys!!!
yup the pulsing of the smoke and the change of color huge sign but notice all the firefighters were on a hose their was no chief watching the buliding their lucky they were just doing confinement and not an attack
If you look closely at the smoke you can see it being pulled back into the building and changing to the erie grey color that usually means get the hell out QUICK!
We (London) use fog spray to clear smoke too, but that's cool smoke. Fog has a much higher surface to mass ratio, so achieves much better cooling of super-hot smoke above a fire, preventing flash. There must be a critical point in the relationship of spray angle to air entrained that you don't want to exceed attacking an enclosed fire. Any scientists out there want to solve that?
you shouldent use a fog on a structure. the fog pattern has the ability to swirl the smock and not reduce the flames. is what you want to do is nock the flames down with a steady streme then if youre on the inside you want to use a fog out an open window it will help ventelate. but you defently do not want to use a fog on a fire.
Normally you can use a real quick spray of fog to cool the smoke, thus assisting to prevent a backdraft, but as far as knocking the fire out goes your pretty spot on that a jet will normally do it
Actually in a free burning fire without ventilation you should use a soild stream at the base of the fire as to not disrupt the thermal layering, but if there is good ventilation over the seat of the fire a fog stream can help cool the extreamly hot gases in the upper portion of the thermal layering as it is being released out the vent hole in the roof. Also using a fog stream in a window is called Hydraulic ventilation. Fog patterns are great if you can use them correctly
I remember being told once that two ff's were killed by that backdraft. One should always watch for signs of impending danger when they are there to be seen.
Notice at 0:26, the FFs on the far monitor "open up" the stream from straight to more of a narrow fog...within seconds the backdraft occured. I'm thinking that the narrow fog pulled air into the building, which gave the fire the "breath" it needed....
Yeah, In fire school they always tell us never to use a fog pattern on a structure fire, since it introduces more air to the fire. That may be what happened.
thats def. what happened because youre suppose to use the fog for vention out an open windo so if its gonna help vent air out a window then why use it to push air into an enclosed structure?
@meds613 First issue was that they were too close to the building when you can clearly see that the smoke was "breathing" indicating one of the signs for a backdraft. A backdraft, in case you may or may not know, happens when a fire is in the stage where it is smoldering and when an opening of air/oxygen is fed to the fire, it ignites rapidly to the point of explosion and everything gets lit up.
@meds613 Reason why this wouldn't be flashover because you can see there is smoldering by looking at the smoke. In a flashover, everything would be at its flash point. There wouldn't be as much smoke if there was flashover. It is very possible that one of the mainlines broke a window without them knowing, as they were right inside the smoke. It is hard to tell whether they were wearing their SCBA (self contained breathing apparatus). If not, their health is in great jeopardy.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
you're all wrong, this is more accurately identified as a category 3 triple F "Fantastic Fire Fart" the aeromatic component cannot be analyzed due to the fact that we are watching via video" However it can be assumed it is similar in pungency to a SBDF with or without wetness following rotavirus infection of the neonate..heat thermal imaging would parallel an abdominal XRay revealing free in the diaphram with colonic distention..as you can see the breathing seen at 2nd level exemplifies this
smoke going in and out as if it was breathing, yellow tinted smoke, turbulent smoke, no visible flame, all the perfect signs of a backdraft. I hope they use this as a training video, its too pretty not to use.
I do agree. That is a backdraft. The while time if you look at the top left of where the smoke is, it pulses in and out like it's breathing. That's what a backdraft does, someone must have opened a door or a window broke and the fire got the oxygen it needed and then the explosion followed. Great video though, the movie Backdraft is amazing too. Universal Studios is also giving a demonstration on a backdraft, it's really neat. They redue the chemical explosion on a stage, and swirls of fire.
yeah looking again you're right and i'm wrong, it's a backdraft! There's always debate about what's which on here, and I guess sometimes the line is blurred, but I'm wrong this time. It looked like the 'products of pyrolysis' went bang, but actually it's bursting out following the ventilation... my mistake.
Dude, this is a backdraft. You can see the smoke, it looks like it's breathing, puffing, and withdrawing in some parts. Then an explosion. This is a backdraft.
Very good video, but I would call that a flashover, not a backdraft. A backdraft is when the fire is starving for oxygen, such as when enclosed in a building. The heat builds and a backdraft occurs when it gets the oxygen it was deprived of. This fire was obviously vented. A flashover occurs when the the smoke reaches it's ignition temp. This looks like either a flashover or more likely an explosion. Excellent video though, thanks!
This was a backdraft!! How do I know?? This was my fire department. The St. Johnsbury FD in VT. The backdraft occurred in a backroom from the rest of the inside. No firefighters were seriously hurt but several people were killed inside.
F*** being a firefighter?? Being a firefighter is one of the most rewarding things that has ever happened to me. Knowing that you are giving a service to your community that is underappreciated, yet in the highest of demands is simply mind boggeling.
WRONG! Smokie7452, this is a TEXTBOOK example of a backdraft! Please learn your terms before you get somebody killed with your spreading of ignorance!
Flashover is a radiation heat flux driven phenomena causes ignition of all fuel vapors and air within line-of-sight. Whereas backdraft is a pressure wave of pyrolysis products ejecting out a ventilation opening which is then accelerated by a following ignition of that pressure wave (flame front) in a confined volume forming a deflagration.
Hi Bro. You said it part right, you mentioned explosion. Only a backdraft has explosion, smoke explosion triggered by air. Flashover is an extreme rapid conbustion triggered by heat, stay low, stay safe...
I understand this to a point. my dad was a volunteer firefighter for a long time.
thank god he don't that anymore. These guys are brave and should be rembered as so . that and the house next to mine allmost did that. Backdraft I mean .That's what my dad said anyway. That would have sucked. You guys are brave . God bless you.
Personal Protective Envelope is where you hide when a postal worker comes in with a gun and shoots the place up. PPE is personal protective equipment regardless of field, it is the OSHA standard and many other governing agencies. So take a class you might learn something.
no its not, its Personal Protective Equipment. my state has the Highest recognized standards for firefighting,if anyone comes from any other state as a certified firefighter, it is void here, and ppe is in the very book(any many other things) that we are trained from, and it means personal protective equipment.
Since I wasn't there this is my theory. Not a backdraft. Kind of smoke explosion/combustion. Before the "event" the smoke looks to be fuel rich (suspended particles of unburned fuel) and pressurized. The smoke at the opening looks to have some fire as it gets to air from the outside. The fire+air+suspended unburned fuel combusted and under pressure of the interior showed the explosion we saw. You sometimes see this on residential if you don't cool the overhead.
This fire was never determined to be a backdraft. Thanks to the lawyers we will never know what happened. As far as the Firefighters, they were in front of the building on a direct line of attack with solid bore nozzles. I know this because if you look in the video one firefighter still is sitting on the ground after the smoke clears. It's me and this fire burned for 3 days afterward. 3 people lost their lives but 25 more were saved due to aggressive fire ops by the first due engine.
I think I wanna disagree with everyone here. It looks like its already vented. I think the roof or floor came down and sent everything out of the front. I could be wrong though, could very well be a backdraft too.
definitely a backdraft. The yellow and brown smoke, the funky flow, and the lower level of soot are dead giveaways of imminent backdraft. I have no idea what those guys were thinking.
completely agree w/ vlaup. the color of the smoke shows that the structure has not been vented sufficiently b/c u see the smoke exiting from holes in puffs (a sort of breathing effect). also, with all the activity going on with teh fire and smoke, im sure that the windows appeared black when viewed from the exterior, which should def tell the guys w/ the white helmets to start pulling everyone back for now
Definitely a backdraft. You can see the dark smoke trying to get the oxygen and the lines hitting the fire without any ventilation is just feeding it the oxygen.
Race my buick watch this fire breath in and out..this fire is very hungrt looking for food (air)..when it founf an air supply it backdrafted bad..no way is this a flash over sorry
im no expert on what this is but i am an expert in smoke reading and this is a good video for that. this fire is brweathing in and out and has yellow smoke so im goin with backdraft all that ventalation doesnt mean its not all the smoke wouldnt let the oxygen get in their.
Definately NOT a backdraft. A backdraft is an extremely rare occurance. Backdrafts occur due to a lack of oxygen and a fire reduced to a smoldering stage...then upon having oxygen induced, a sudden forceful explosion. This particular fire has plenty of oxgen, appears to be in nearly free burn stage and the fire certainly has a strong hold in that interior.
I would agree with you except for the fact that this fire is puffing and "breathing" in and out (signs of backdraft) which also indicates that it has lots of heat, lots of flammable gasses, but not enough 02. The color of the smoke, brown, is also an indicator. However, I am not saying it WASN'T an internal collapse or explosive flashover, without knowing the investigation results, I would say that it is a great video for always wearing proper PPE! Thanks for sharing the video!
A smoke explosion is more like a flashover. This certainly is not a backdraft, there is plenty of ventilation. This is a violent smoke explosion, probably caused by a collapse inside the body of fire, forcing the heat and gases out of the front vented taxpayer.
Definately a backdraft. You can see the smoke being sucked back into the opening as the fire tries to breath. Once it gets enough of a breath, the beast is released with exposive consiquences.
The fire obviously created a massive build up of smoke, (unburnt gasses) a line which is pouring water in to the structure could account for the whitening of the smoke as it turns to steam and expands. Water entering this way will draw air into the structure by means of the ventury principle. The air, combined with the heat and gasses is a perfect mixture for a backdraught. As the mixture reaches its optimum level, it will backdraft, a delayed backdraft is quite a common phenomenon.
Definetly a backdraft. like has been said the smoke being sucked back into the building is a good indicator. another good indicator is the yellowish smoke pouring out of the building before the backdraft
u r absolutely correct on that matter. My instructor for the essentials of firefighting works in reading where this occurred and he said it was a backdraft.
Hmm. I'm not a FF, but here is my take. Other videos here show handlines being CLEARLY unable to shatter storefront glass until certain situations arise (concentration of flow, sweep pattern setting up harmonic flexing in the glass, etc.). Even after breaking, time is needed to introduce pure enough air into the combustion areas, then POOF!
It's obvious you aren't a FF. For one, handlines can easly break windows, it just depends on the amount of pressure, and the type of glass. And no, very little time is necessary for backdraft to occur. It's nearly instantaneous.
this clearly is a backdraft. The way the building "breathes" leading up to it, and color of the smoke are dead giveaways that backdraft is iminent. In defense of the responders, they are probably too close to see what's really going on. IC should have recognized it. PPE is critical, our chief says "when do we wear SCBA? Anytime you see smoke! And that's how we train.
This was a backdraft, it occured in Lyndonville VT 10 years ago, I personally know a firefighter that was on the scene, actually he is one of the last to get up showed in the video
2) It's not a backdraft, but another type of fire gas explosion called a Smoke Explosion.
3) None of the firefighters were in the direct path of the explosion -- they recognized the danger and the streams were being operated from angles at the sides. That's not particularly clear in the video due to lack of depth perspective.
I wonder how many people praising PPE here would've located their men directly in front of the building to operate those streams?
Too many people are in the fire service today seem only to know about PPE...not about strategy and tactics and recognizing the particular dangers of different situations and employing the correct tactics to minimize the danger while still accomplishing the mission to preserve life and property.
well if they knew what was in there they had too try and put it out and if you notice there are buildings left and right of this one so the closest you can shoot is diagonal i think they did a good job myself- PPE wtf?
Good view of the scene from a block away. Unfortunately, incident commanders tend to be closer and don't get the full view like the camera in this police cruiser. The scene on the line up front can be much different, stressing the need for "wider view" incident command. What is obvious to us in the video looks much different to the crews on the line.
A reminder that FULL protective gear (SCBAs, COMPLETE turnout wear, including nomex hoods, etc) should ALWAYS be worn. Note the pulsing of the smoke/gases. Also note the brown-ish coloured smoke: two tell-tale signs that a backdraft is about to occur. This should be shown to ALL firefighters - new and old. STAY SAFE!
I reviewed this a while ago but it still takes my breath away. the PPE worked in this situation and to watch fireman realize that after this and just pick up the hose again....
* at Delaware State Fire School
APGETCRAZY 9 months ago
they showed this video during basic firefighting skills & Delaware State Fire School. it's a great video for demo on backdraft.
APGETCRAZY 9 months ago
Thats the worse backdraft I've seen in a while!!!!
smurfboywv 9 months ago
If you pay close attention you'll notice that the smoke leaving the building appears to be 'breathing.' It looks almost as if the smoke is being pushed outwards and then sucked back in. This is a very very good warning sign of a backdraft and it is really noticeable in this video.
EndFlaming 11 months ago
best example of a backdraft iv seen on youtube. thanks
chAse734 11 months ago
see this is why us firefighters get trained so we dont have this little accidents but in the fire ground you never know what might happen. props to all those who suport us firefighters but aslo suport ems and law enforcement.
gloriamguzman84 11 months ago
Yes they were all fine. And this is not a flashover. It is a backdraft. When the fire is out and there is no more O2 left inside. Some one opens the door and fresh O2 comes in and the whole building goes off again. I just learned this in my fire class tonight.
kcorns1 1 year ago
god damn my asshole puckerd on that one! hahahah
poepoe2322 1 year ago
... there had to be something else in that building or the whole thing was fairly confined
and full or a LOT of heat and pop! Someone just opened up a good hole in back of the fire and whoom! Breath!! Like to have seen more of the scene to see what the smoke did after that explosion... That was all super-heated air & gasses...I hope thoseguys didn't catch that heat too badly... that doorway became a heatfunnel on 'em!
SittingMooseShaman 1 year ago
I found this whilst searching for the movie "Backdraft" but Holy Shit - this is better!!
Were they all OK?
ParlyCharly 1 year ago
i have a question ive been taught not to bottle up so close to buildings for this reason and can u still get cyanide poisoning on the outside?
sirstanley09 1 year ago
my dads an officer in the fire brigade in east london :D
Whitechapel6660 1 year ago
To me, a firefighter is a person with brass balls or something else. While everyone instinctively runs away, the firefighter runs towards. Isn't that trying to make a real difference?
VinDcator 1 year ago
ouch
sidn13 1 year ago
R they alive
913335 1 year ago
@913335
idk if they survived or not, but being a firefighter myself, i think they probably survived, albeit with some pretty serious burns and injuries from being blown back
imasexybeastsoccer 1 year ago
thats a backdraft you can see the smoke is pressurized, the color, and the smoke is being drawn back in all signs of impending backdraft
4F3D1E 1 year ago
that looks more like flash over than back draft becaus the place looks like its all ready been ventilated
fireEMS347 1 year ago
@fireEMS347
Far from a flashover. The whole smoke plume raced out and exploded.
SpaceAgeDiaper 1 year ago
@fireEMS347 < Flashovers do not explode like that. Flashover is when the heat builds up and everything flares up at once, like a campfire when you blow on the kindling to start it and it gets hot enough for the whole little pile to light. This fire sucked in all the air it could and exploded, big difference.
If you want to see a good example of flashover look up on here -A True Classic NJ fire-
tubesteakdynamo 1 year ago
@fireEMS347 If it was ventilated the hole sure as hell wasn't big enough for that hot smoke breathing beast. Textbook Backdraft. Its pressurized, hot thick choking rolling smoke, breathing in and out of the building. Ask those guys picking their asses up off the ground what they think that freight train that hit them was!
herbiesnerd 1 year ago
Did anybody die?!
coyotefever105 1 year ago
I've seen one and i hope to never see one again
vmaxchevy08 1 year ago
Damn
fireQ121 1 year ago
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jazzdog 2 years ago
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onti112 1 year ago
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Classic backdraft, watch the smoke, gets sucked in and the puffed out sucked in puffed out, when it finally gets a good charge of O2, boom. I'm suprised they didn't pick up on the warning signs, it was happening for a while.
fidny 2 years ago
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fidny 2 years ago
crazy!
diverse0ne 2 years ago
Just prior to the blowout, look at where the structure face would be. It looks like a wall collapses and causes that blowout.
bapabob 2 years ago
fuck !!
in this moment :all right
the next moment damn nd booom!!
i´m a german fire fighter and we watching your videos for learning ...
damn...
ThePinkygirl82 2 years ago
I'm a bit confused by this. I thought a backdraught is caused by the introduction of oxygen into a container that has sufficient fuel and heat for the smoke layer to ignite instantaneously. In the vidoe it appears more like a violent flashover. Can anyone help with this?
BJ1980X 2 years ago
You are correct, this is actually a flashover and not a backdraft. Flashover is the rapid transition between the growth and fully developed fire stages. When flashover occurs burning gases push out of openings in the compartment (what you see here) at a substantial velocity. You can see here where they are trying to cool the radiant heated area to keep the fire from going fully developed. Bidirectional airflow, flame and smoke all are strong indicators for flashover. Hope this helps.
mxflippin 2 years ago
You can see by the activity of the smoke, getting drawn in and then out, that this is a good sign of a backdraft. A flashover would be when the smoke, which is flammable gas, in the building ignite simultaneously. Not having been there, I can't say for sure, but it looks like a backdraft to me.
cnukem1 2 years ago
The reason I say this is because a backdraft will occur in a pressurized situation. The building breathing like it is in the video makes me lean toward backdraft. In a flashover there is sufficient oxygen in a room full of gas. I think that there were two floors invloved. I thing the bottom floor may have been free burning and the top floor pressurized.
cnukem1 2 years ago
i just watched this in my fire science class 2day and my teacher said it was backdraft becouse of the added oxygen but the smoke doesnt ignite flashover is where everything gets heated to its ignition point and everything ignites in flame yes including the smoke ignites as well dont if i am any help or not but i tried
sledneckzl600 2 years ago
This actually happened in my hometown. Just wanted to let everyone know that NO firefighters were killed. 3 were sent to the hospital though. Be safe guys!!!
TylerH2006 2 years ago
I would have peed a little just saying
fireman66767 2 years ago
yup the pulsing of the smoke and the change of color huge sign but notice all the firefighters were on a hose their was no chief watching the buliding their lucky they were just doing confinement and not an attack
fkanthony1 2 years ago
arretez de vous mettre en face de la porte et arretez de cracher avec les lances a conte sens des fumées, je pense que ca ira déja beaucoup mieu...
csz650 2 years ago
that is the worst thing ever well that and flash overs
NYGfan122191 2 years ago
FUCKING HELL. HOPE THOSE GUYS WERE OK
krazyjordy 2 years ago
If you look closely at the smoke you can see it being pulled back into the building and changing to the erie grey color that usually means get the hell out QUICK!
jrallen13 2 years ago
We (London) use fog spray to clear smoke too, but that's cool smoke. Fog has a much higher surface to mass ratio, so achieves much better cooling of super-hot smoke above a fire, preventing flash. There must be a critical point in the relationship of spray angle to air entrained that you don't want to exceed attacking an enclosed fire. Any scientists out there want to solve that?
davejmurph 2 years ago
never use a fog pattern on a structure fire? Noone ever taught me that! I'll be sure to remember it from now on though...
davejmurph 2 years ago
you shouldent use a fog on a structure. the fog pattern has the ability to swirl the smock and not reduce the flames. is what you want to do is nock the flames down with a steady streme then if youre on the inside you want to use a fog out an open window it will help ventelate. but you defently do not want to use a fog on a fire.
NJS1726 2 years ago
Normally you can use a real quick spray of fog to cool the smoke, thus assisting to prevent a backdraft, but as far as knocking the fire out goes your pretty spot on that a jet will normally do it
mattie343 2 years ago
Actually in a free burning fire without ventilation you should use a soild stream at the base of the fire as to not disrupt the thermal layering, but if there is good ventilation over the seat of the fire a fog stream can help cool the extreamly hot gases in the upper portion of the thermal layering as it is being released out the vent hole in the roof. Also using a fog stream in a window is called Hydraulic ventilation. Fog patterns are great if you can use them correctly
Trogman12 2 years ago
always always always read the smoke
fireguye4 2 years ago 2
I remember being told once that two ff's were killed by that backdraft. One should always watch for signs of impending danger when they are there to be seen.
dandoosh90 2 years ago
firefrenzy669...idk who said fuck being a firefighter, but they obviously dont know the rewards...its the best thing i have ever done in my life...
soadisawesome24 2 years ago
NO I POZAMIATANE.
gelski80 2 years ago
Notice at 0:26, the FFs on the far monitor "open up" the stream from straight to more of a narrow fog...within seconds the backdraft occured. I'm thinking that the narrow fog pulled air into the building, which gave the fire the "breath" it needed....
machomanrandysavage 2 years ago 3
Yeah, In fire school they always tell us never to use a fog pattern on a structure fire, since it introduces more air to the fire. That may be what happened.
dandoosh90 2 years ago
thats def. what happened because youre suppose to use the fog for vention out an open windo so if its gonna help vent air out a window then why use it to push air into an enclosed structure?
NJS1726 2 years ago
this is definately a good example of what not to do, I've definately seen this video during training classes
jjfire0527 2 years ago 14
@jjfire0527 yea they show it to all the firefighter 1 training classes in my area, I watched it when I went through my class.
theone2225 8 months ago
@jjfire0527 what did they do wrong there? i want to learn
meds613 8 months ago
@meds613 First issue was that they were too close to the building when you can clearly see that the smoke was "breathing" indicating one of the signs for a backdraft. A backdraft, in case you may or may not know, happens when a fire is in the stage where it is smoldering and when an opening of air/oxygen is fed to the fire, it ignites rapidly to the point of explosion and everything gets lit up.
jjfire0527 8 months ago
@meds613 Reason why this wouldn't be flashover because you can see there is smoldering by looking at the smoke. In a flashover, everything would be at its flash point. There wouldn't be as much smoke if there was flashover. It is very possible that one of the mainlines broke a window without them knowing, as they were right inside the smoke. It is hard to tell whether they were wearing their SCBA (self contained breathing apparatus). If not, their health is in great jeopardy.
jjfire0527 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
you're all wrong, this is more accurately identified as a category 3 triple F "Fantastic Fire Fart" the aeromatic component cannot be analyzed due to the fact that we are watching via video" However it can be assumed it is similar in pungency to a SBDF with or without wetness following rotavirus infection of the neonate..heat thermal imaging would parallel an abdominal XRay revealing free in the diaphram with colonic distention..as you can see the breathing seen at 2nd level exemplifies this
dugo89 2 years ago
smoke going in and out as if it was breathing, yellow tinted smoke, turbulent smoke, no visible flame, all the perfect signs of a backdraft. I hope they use this as a training video, its too pretty not to use.
ThySaint 2 years ago 5
I do agree. That is a backdraft. The while time if you look at the top left of where the smoke is, it pulses in and out like it's breathing. That's what a backdraft does, someone must have opened a door or a window broke and the fire got the oxygen it needed and then the explosion followed. Great video though, the movie Backdraft is amazing too. Universal Studios is also giving a demonstration on a backdraft, it's really neat. They redue the chemical explosion on a stage, and swirls of fire.
Arien102 2 years ago 2
how the hell did they miss that pulsing ? this is why your OIC should be stood back watching the whole scene
superdoopertouring 2 years ago
Whao! holly molly batman!
mattslbbr 2 years ago
yeah looking again you're right and i'm wrong, it's a backdraft! There's always debate about what's which on here, and I guess sometimes the line is blurred, but I'm wrong this time. It looked like the 'products of pyrolysis' went bang, but actually it's bursting out following the ventilation... my mistake.
davejmurph 2 years ago
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justincraiggreen 2 years ago
i just had my training day for backdraft and flashover and they used this clip.
scarecrowbar66 2 years ago
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mecki74 2 years ago
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davejmurph 2 years ago
thats not a flashover it's a backdraft...there 2 seperate things
devonkinsey 2 years ago 3
Dude, this is a backdraft. You can see the smoke, it looks like it's breathing, puffing, and withdrawing in some parts. Then an explosion. This is a backdraft.
RBFF123 2 years ago 2
Very good video, but I would call that a flashover, not a backdraft. A backdraft is when the fire is starving for oxygen, such as when enclosed in a building. The heat builds and a backdraft occurs when it gets the oxygen it was deprived of. This fire was obviously vented. A flashover occurs when the the smoke reaches it's ignition temp. This looks like either a flashover or more likely an explosion. Excellent video though, thanks!
smokie7452 2 years ago
This was a backdraft!! How do I know?? This was my fire department. The St. Johnsbury FD in VT. The backdraft occurred in a backroom from the rest of the inside. No firefighters were seriously hurt but several people were killed inside.
HockeyMetalRPG 2 years ago
Starving for oxygen. Meaning that the fire needs to breathe. Look at the smoke, it's puffing and withdrawing like breathing. That's a backdraft.
RBFF123 2 years ago
ur right thats freaky dude, f*** being a firefighter
ElectroRockerr 2 years ago
F*** being a firefighter?? Being a firefighter is one of the most rewarding things that has ever happened to me. Knowing that you are giving a service to your community that is underappreciated, yet in the highest of demands is simply mind boggeling.
firefrenzy669 2 years ago 24
WRONG! Smokie7452, this is a TEXTBOOK example of a backdraft! Please learn your terms before you get somebody killed with your spreading of ignorance!
Flashover is a radiation heat flux driven phenomena causes ignition of all fuel vapors and air within line-of-sight. Whereas backdraft is a pressure wave of pyrolysis products ejecting out a ventilation opening which is then accelerated by a following ignition of that pressure wave (flame front) in a confined volume forming a deflagration.
XSFx5 2 years ago 4
couldnt say it any better...
garyco99 2 years ago
Hi Bro. You said it part right, you mentioned explosion. Only a backdraft has explosion, smoke explosion triggered by air. Flashover is an extreme rapid conbustion triggered by heat, stay low, stay safe...
garyco99 2 years ago
This is a great example of a backdraft & very useful for training purposes, thanks for posting.
capn134 2 years ago
i hope it would nobody injured :-O
Eschersheim2444 3 years ago
I understand this to a point. my dad was a volunteer firefighter for a long time.
thank god he don't that anymore. These guys are brave and should be rembered as so . that and the house next to mine allmost did that. Backdraft I mean .That's what my dad said anyway. That would have sucked. You guys are brave . God bless you.
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Frekingname 3 years ago
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Frekingname 3 years ago
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Frekingname 3 years ago
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Frekingname 3 years ago
Yup we even call it personal protective equipment in the Irish Fire Service. PPE = envelope, lol i love it. That gave me a good laugh.
blackbolt19 3 years ago
Personal Protective Envelope is where you hide when a postal worker comes in with a gun and shoots the place up. PPE is personal protective equipment regardless of field, it is the OSHA standard and many other governing agencies. So take a class you might learn something.
BrandonjBare1980 3 years ago
no its not, its Personal Protective Equipment. my state has the Highest recognized standards for firefighting,if anyone comes from any other state as a certified firefighter, it is void here, and ppe is in the very book(any many other things) that we are trained from, and it means personal protective equipment.
dfeliberty 3 years ago
What state?
ljkoolk 3 years ago
Florida.(sorry it took so long to reply)
dfeliberty 3 years ago
VT. St. Johnsbury VT . It's my Fire Department
HockeyMetalRPG 2 years ago
Florida(response to ljkook)
dfeliberty 3 years ago
that it happens when the fire was taking long time
sorry i`m bad in english
a7mdhoosh 3 years ago
that happens because they make a bad ventilation!
ESPITO1986 3 years ago
idk the signs were there. Puffing smoke like the building appears to be breathing and yellow/gray smoke
Cronoswing 3 years ago
Since I wasn't there this is my theory. Not a backdraft. Kind of smoke explosion/combustion. Before the "event" the smoke looks to be fuel rich (suspended particles of unburned fuel) and pressurized. The smoke at the opening looks to have some fire as it gets to air from the outside. The fire+air+suspended unburned fuel combusted and under pressure of the interior showed the explosion we saw. You sometimes see this on residential if you don't cool the overhead.
adammyer 3 years ago 2
This fire was never determined to be a backdraft. Thanks to the lawyers we will never know what happened. As far as the Firefighters, they were in front of the building on a direct line of attack with solid bore nozzles. I know this because if you look in the video one firefighter still is sitting on the ground after the smoke clears. It's me and this fire burned for 3 days afterward. 3 people lost their lives but 25 more were saved due to aggressive fire ops by the first due engine.
ARSONSJFD 3 years ago
well backdraft is just smoke then fire bursting. Thats usual from outside smoke to instant BOOOOOOM
hironistelrooy 3 years ago
did everyone inside die?
towerco3 3 years ago
I think I wanna disagree with everyone here. It looks like its already vented. I think the roof or floor came down and sent everything out of the front. I could be wrong though, could very well be a backdraft too.
Skrat281 3 years ago
haha i seen this after it happen cause they sent it to my old cheif so its great
killerofthesouls 3 years ago
u can tell deffinatly a back draft smoke looks like its breathing
thefirefighter 3 years ago
definitely a backdraft. The yellow and brown smoke, the funky flow, and the lower level of soot are dead giveaways of imminent backdraft. I have no idea what those guys were thinking.
totalslakr 3 years ago
definetly a backdraft
Rogerson0522 3 years ago
that's not a backdraft! that's a flash over!! greets from switzerland ;)
darktoxic85 3 years ago
no - backdraft is a shock wave like this
fratzi 3 years ago
Wow, haven't been in the fire service long eh?
That's a backdraft. Flashover is when the room and contents, air, etc, all ignite and burn at once.
yrucallin911 3 years ago
where did you do your training!!!! that my friend is definately a backdraught.
kcbeetle 3 years ago
greetings....i think its a backdraft....watch the smoke.....its a dark color and it shows oxygen deprivation...and the blast outward...
vlaup 3 years ago
completely agree w/ vlaup. the color of the smoke shows that the structure has not been vented sufficiently b/c u see the smoke exiting from holes in puffs (a sort of breathing effect). also, with all the activity going on with teh fire and smoke, im sure that the windows appeared black when viewed from the exterior, which should def tell the guys w/ the white helmets to start pulling everyone back for now
fleamarketfan 3 years ago
Definitely a backdraft. You can see the dark smoke trying to get the oxygen and the lines hitting the fire without any ventilation is just feeding it the oxygen.
jimithingslides 3 years ago 2
Race my buick watch this fire breath in and out..this fire is very hungrt looking for food (air)..when it founf an air supply it backdrafted bad..no way is this a flash over sorry
racefanstevel 3 years ago
Hay guys wqtch this again...theres no question this is a back draft..I have been a fireman 23 years..backdrafts are not that uncomon
racefanstevel 3 years ago
im no expert on what this is but i am an expert in smoke reading and this is a good video for that. this fire is brweathing in and out and has yellow smoke so im goin with backdraft all that ventalation doesnt mean its not all the smoke wouldnt let the oxygen get in their.
sfpd17 3 years ago
what happen my hotel?
Kauboy84 3 years ago
Wow! This is a big Flashover! Live the people later?
Tarlinty 3 years ago
Definately NOT a backdraft. A backdraft is an extremely rare occurance. Backdrafts occur due to a lack of oxygen and a fire reduced to a smoldering stage...then upon having oxygen induced, a sudden forceful explosion. This particular fire has plenty of oxgen, appears to be in nearly free burn stage and the fire certainly has a strong hold in that interior.
Racemybuick 3 years ago
I would agree with you except for the fact that this fire is puffing and "breathing" in and out (signs of backdraft) which also indicates that it has lots of heat, lots of flammable gasses, but not enough 02. The color of the smoke, brown, is also an indicator. However, I am not saying it WASN'T an internal collapse or explosive flashover, without knowing the investigation results, I would say that it is a great video for always wearing proper PPE! Thanks for sharing the video!
thumpernicus 3 years ago
I just learned about backdrafts in FF2 and this fits all the signs. It could of been a backdraft of one room. thats what is hard to tell.
There could be fire outside of the backdraft area. That would explain the other smoke.
CallToArms7814 3 years ago
A smoke explosion is more like a flashover. This certainly is not a backdraft, there is plenty of ventilation. This is a violent smoke explosion, probably caused by a collapse inside the body of fire, forcing the heat and gases out of the front vented taxpayer.
Racemybuick 3 years ago
this is a backdraft, notcie the colour of the smoke that's pulsating out of the building. yellowish/brown is a classic indicator.
phenomanam 3 years ago
holy shit!
jacko39 3 years ago
OSHA where are they
ragedmonkey50 3 years ago
haven't they learned when theres gonna be a backdraft when the were training like backdraft training of flashover training right?
waffle1997 3 years ago
omfg that was fucked up cannot thank you guys enough for the great job you do, i got royally screwed out of that job years ago be safe
shredder40 3 years ago
Does anyone konw if the firefighters were ok?
lustdog 3 years ago
YOU HAVE TO READ THE SMOKE!!! the signs of it coming were so obvious!!!
ncfirefighter910 3 years ago 2
yeh isn't it when the smoke starts to suck back into the building a backdraft is going to happen?
bw92 3 years ago
you can see the fire breathing in and out of the building and the yellowish brown smoke
ncfirefighter910 3 years ago
i know. where was the safety officer on that call?
NiceGuy019 3 years ago
damn
:0
boogerbutt8 3 years ago
holy shit...i hope i'm never in 1 ...
drunkatthehelm 3 years ago
ooh FUCK !!!! DAMN, THAT WAS A BIG FIREBALL
KotziMax 3 years ago
the signs of backdraft are obvious
jelzo 3 years ago
Gnarly!
Moviebro 3 years ago
WTF! That's crazy. I bet those guys got pretty fucked up.
aran125 3 years ago
why isn't there someone standing back like the CO watching this fire breathing? Good video for how not fight a fire. Or how to pay attention!
firecuffs 3 years ago
Yellow brown smoke, getting suked in and out, yup this is a backdraft.
FireLT2415 3 years ago
yeah its a back draft u can see the fire tring to brerath as the smoke goes in and out of the window
boyce6692 3 years ago
Definately a backdraft. You can see the smoke being sucked back into the opening as the fire tries to breath. Once it gets enough of a breath, the beast is released with exposive consiquences.
emtgregg 3 years ago
The fire obviously created a massive build up of smoke, (unburnt gasses) a line which is pouring water in to the structure could account for the whitening of the smoke as it turns to steam and expands. Water entering this way will draw air into the structure by means of the ventury principle. The air, combined with the heat and gasses is a perfect mixture for a backdraught. As the mixture reaches its optimum level, it will backdraft, a delayed backdraft is quite a common phenomenon.
festersfire 3 years ago
its abackdraft you can see that the smoke coming out of the building is kinda sucked in back into the building , thats a sign for backdraft situation
damnerrors 4 years ago
Definetly a backdraft. like has been said the smoke being sucked back into the building is a good indicator. another good indicator is the yellowish smoke pouring out of the building before the backdraft
jd651988 4 years ago
u r absolutely correct on that matter. My instructor for the essentials of firefighting works in reading where this occurred and he said it was a backdraft.
27rescue 4 years ago
Hmm. I'm not a FF, but here is my take. Other videos here show handlines being CLEARLY unable to shatter storefront glass until certain situations arise (concentration of flow, sweep pattern setting up harmonic flexing in the glass, etc.). Even after breaking, time is needed to introduce pure enough air into the combustion areas, then POOF!
mmmmna 4 years ago
It's obvious you aren't a FF. For one, handlines can easly break windows, it just depends on the amount of pressure, and the type of glass. And no, very little time is necessary for backdraft to occur. It's nearly instantaneous.
Flapjack484 4 years ago
Until you've been on a structure fire scene and felt like you're trapped in an oven in your turnout gear...don't run your mouth like you're some pro.
Mudslinger462 4 years ago
Wouldn't want to be in the way of that even with gear on....
weeneebayko 4 years ago
I've viewed this thing time and again, and stick to my conclusion that it is a backdraft.
captainfiftee 4 years ago 3
oooohhh shit!! lol
Lad33der 4 years ago
Nope not a backdraft. The smoke appeared to be "breathing" because of hydraulic ventilation from the handlines outside
capn134 4 years ago
I thought hydraulic ventilation happened from the inside out...and why would anyone use hydraulic vent on a fire that hot in the first place??
cavwondagainsti69 3 years ago
As far as the theory goes that cant have been a Backdraft, there was no starvation of oxygen,remember your fire rectangle kids.
pjdaly85 4 years ago
this clearly is a backdraft. The way the building "breathes" leading up to it, and color of the smoke are dead giveaways that backdraft is iminent. In defense of the responders, they are probably too close to see what's really going on. IC should have recognized it. PPE is critical, our chief says "when do we wear SCBA? Anytime you see smoke! And that's how we train.
captainfiftee 4 years ago
ey dumbass there was still oxygen being able ventilate. that was just an explosion.
mightychae 4 years ago
This was a backdraft, it occured in Lyndonville VT 10 years ago, I personally know a firefighter that was on the scene, actually he is one of the last to get up showed in the video
mfdbenji 4 years ago
WRONG!!! it was in St. Johnsbury VT. I'm on the Department so I should know. I wasn't with them during this fire (I was in the USAF at the time)
HockeyMetalRPG 4 years ago
Yeah, you're 100% correct. It's backdraft.
And on SCBA use...your right. Even if it's a car fire on an open freeway, you better have that scott pack on.
RigLord 4 years ago
naa MSA
ikahari 3 years ago
1) It's St. Johnsbury, VT. Not Wisconsin.
2) It's not a backdraft, but another type of fire gas explosion called a Smoke Explosion.
3) None of the firefighters were in the direct path of the explosion -- they recognized the danger and the streams were being operated from angles at the sides. That's not particularly clear in the video due to lack of depth perspective.
FireFeed 4 years ago
I wonder how many people praising PPE here would've located their men directly in front of the building to operate those streams?
Too many people are in the fire service today seem only to know about PPE...not about strategy and tactics and recognizing the particular dangers of different situations and employing the correct tactics to minimize the danger while still accomplishing the mission to preserve life and property.
FireFeed 4 years ago 2
well if they knew what was in there they had too try and put it out and if you notice there are buildings left and right of this one so the closest you can shoot is diagonal i think they did a good job myself- PPE wtf?
enterthetekken 4 years ago
Get your head out of the book and stop acting like a sissy.... They did their job the best they could with the situation that was presented...
lordoflivernois 4 years ago
Are you stupid or what? Color of the smoke, puffing, handline(s) ineffective.
None of the FF where in the path of the explosion? Did you actually watch this video?
lfd828 4 years ago
A smoke explosion is the same thing as a backdraft.
wtfwtfwtflol 3 years ago
Anyone who thinks this is a backdraft needs to go back to FF 1 & 2..... Totally not a backdraft..
lordoflivernois 4 years ago
Good view of the scene from a block away. Unfortunately, incident commanders tend to be closer and don't get the full view like the camera in this police cruiser. The scene on the line up front can be much different, stressing the need for "wider view" incident command. What is obvious to us in the video looks much different to the crews on the line.
tnjrich 4 years ago
A reminder that FULL protective gear (SCBAs, COMPLETE turnout wear, including nomex hoods, etc) should ALWAYS be worn. Note the pulsing of the smoke/gases. Also note the brown-ish coloured smoke: two tell-tale signs that a backdraft is about to occur. This should be shown to ALL firefighters - new and old. STAY SAFE!
HermitousZen 4 years ago
This is from St. Johnsbury VT
kdwilson49 4 years ago
half way thru, watch the fire gases (smoke) start pulsing, a good tell tale sign of a backdraft, thats when i would hav been pulling back!
slavinj 4 years ago
thats not a backdraft that is actually an explosion taken place up in wiscossin
SycoJoe72 4 years ago
I reviewed this a while ago but it still takes my breath away. the PPE worked in this situation and to watch fireman realize that after this and just pick up the hose again....
These are great fireman!
omerusi 4 years ago
Where was this at? If that was in NYC or Detroit, they would have been fighting that fire and trying to knock it down from the inside
FDNY612 4 years ago
Word!
lordoflivernois 4 years ago
Yea but sometimes FDNY doesnt strech inside if its too hot or unsafe, in this situation it looks like a surround n drown
sherm528 3 years ago
yeah you could totally tell a backdraft was going to happen any second from all that yellow smoke. it looks they may have been ok though.
djakimbe 4 years ago
you could tell it was gonne backdraft when the smoke started billowing out of the 2nd floor,
ilovemeagan 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ppe is only used in buliding sites not fire stations u idiot
suberwoofer 4 years ago