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From: stefbot
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  • LOVE this video stef! and all of your vids. but I'm curious on how the poor will PAY for education. it's "free" now, but can you imagine all of those families that can barely afford food, then they would have to pay for education?

    what's your response to that?

  • Oh yes! Throw down that strawman! Rather than answer the arguement of how would the poor be taken care of, you argue that "You're not doing enough now!"

    I'm donating my tax dollars to take care of the poor. =)

  • They'll say "Paying my taxes." I've had that exact argument. They feel that, by beating money out of the general population, the poor can get some education. Further, they may use the fact that they do nothing as proof that people won't do anything on their own.

  • Anti-lock brakes and electronic stability controls cause more accidents also.

  • you take away lanes and lights you don't enable emergency vehicles to get through anywhere. No traffic system, absolute shit roads.

  • What if you don't know if you care, because you assumed the government took care of it and forgot about it?

  • good luck taking the airbags out of your car :)

  • Hey, you made mention of the problems getting prenatal care education for your wife, did you look into online sources at all during that time? There's always that option now at least, if nothing else as I'm sure you know.

  • There's always the answer that "I care about the poor and so I pay my taxes"

  • Shoulda mentioned, if they try and throw the question back at you with "well what are YOU doing about the poor," you can say "I'm speaking out against welfare. That's easily the best thing anyone can do to help the poor."

  • God damn, I went to a public school for K-5. Going to a private school for the rest of my middle school and high school career was the best decision I ever made in my life.

  • lol @ the iron spike

  • "You obviously really don't give a shit, so why are you even asking the question?"

    Ha! I love it!

  • Not that I disagree with your argument, but I would like to know your answer to a counter point.

    "How will the poor be taken care of?"

    "Well, what are you doing about it?"

    "well, I AM the poor that needs taking care of. I don't have time or money to give, I am the one that needs help."

    I am guessing the answer would be "I will, and others like me", but how reassuring is that? I'll take away the safety-set that the state has made you accustomed to, but I promise I will make it up to you.

  • As I said, I agree with you, just want to know your thoughts on this. I guess the real answer might be "Well, I don't know, but please get your mafia friend to stop stealing my money at gunpoint in the name of helping you."

  • fantastic, I wrote a post about seat belt laws (and made a corresponding video) around the same time this vid was made. great stuff.

  • If a poor person came to me I would say volunteer at a local business. For the most part they will never turn away free labor and you get practical knowledge from it.

  • So you don't think the child's parents could teach the poor 5-year-old 2 plus 2?

  • The use of coercion to compel virtue eliminates its possibility, for to be moral, an act must be uncoerced. If a person is compelled to act in a certain way (or threatened with government sanctions), there is nothing virtuous about his or her behavior. Freedom of choice is a necessary ingredient for the achievement of virtue. Whenever there is a chance for the good life, the risk of a bad one must also be accepted...

    All Quotes by Carl Watner

    Damnit it's backwards!

  • The voluntary principle assures us that while we may have the possibility of choosing the worst, we also have the possibility of choosing the best. It provides us the opportunity to make things better, though it doesn't guarantee results. While it dictates that we do not force our idea of "better" on someone else, it protects us from having someone else's idea of "better" imposed on us by force...

  • make economic calculation impossible because they disrupt the free market price system. Even the smallest government intervention leads to problems which justify the call for more and more intervention. Also, "controlled" economies leave no room for new inventions, new ways of doing things, or for the "unforeseeable and unpredictable." Free market competition is a learning process which brings about results which no one can know in advance....

  • People engage in voluntary exchanges because they anticipate improving their lot; the only individuals capable of judging the merits of an exchange are the parties to it. Voluntaryism follows naturally if no one does anything to stop it. The interplay of natural property and exchanges results in a free market price system, which conveys the necessary information needed to make intelligent economic decisions. Interventionism and collectivism...

  • LOL your videos are brilliant but you suck at pronouncing dutch names :)

  • haha thanks, I have no doubt that that...

  • I`d like to see you in a debate with a communist, a real one.

    It seems like to me at least, that while this kind of anarchism might be nice and fuzzy in your mind, you must know that it cannot work in the real world , just like communism (the real one) it has no chance in the 21st century .

  • Read Atlas Shrugged, it's a fun novel, and it'll change your mind

  • I don't like the argument at the end stef.

    What if the person you are talking to is part of the poor?

    What if the person is handicapped in a way that makes him unable to help the poor?

    Even if you are both in agreement that you will help that poor, does that really serve as a good enough example for the rest of society?

  • Are you saying that a poor person cannot do anything to help other poor people? Cook them a meal, walk their dog, check up on them?

  • Of course a poor person can cook another poor person a meal, however that does not help that own person's "poor" situation very much, since they could have otherwise used that time to look for work or educate themselves.

    If the only form of aid the poor receive is from other similarly deprived people (and of course stefbot) do you think that is enough to give them equality of opportunity?

  • Perhaps you could start off by telling me what you are doing to help the poor...

  • Comment removed

  • I watched your video obviously - I know where you are going with that comment. But what if I am personally too handicapped to help the poor?

    I feel like this is a semantic and - forgive me - gimmicky answer for a question like this when there are better arguments. I'm not trying to poke and pry and score points (I've been subscribed awhile, I'm not trolling) , I'm just saying I do not feel people will actually want to agree with you if you are telling them to "shutup" with their question.

  • No, it's a fair question of course -- but if you are too personally handicapped to help the poor, it seems highly unlikely that you will be engaging and highly abstract philosophical debates -- if you have the competence to debate, you have the competence to help... :)

  • We want the common good on a self-interest, individualistic, greed based society.... So how is that possible?

    Guess what it is not. Freemarket = Monopoly + illusion of democracy, of free speech, and above all of CHOICE.

    For god sake im not talking about socialism...

  • But what are we living in now? No matter how the world is configured we will always behave in a 'selfish' way, merely because this is the only possible behavior for us, since everything is entirely mediated through the individual. What is the government, then? Why should this particular institution transcend this valuation, especially without proper incentive?

  • That´s what how we were touch to believe. The values upon the material world is something that we learn. Study the cultures of the world, don´t try to analyse this with the narrow world view that we westerns have...

  • Or...

    What are you doing to educate the poor?

    "Nothing."

    Why?

    "Because I defer responsibility to the government."

    With out the government to defer responsibility to, who's responsibility would it be to educate the poor?

  • Comment removed

  • I agree on the point but I'm not sure the argument is valid.

    What if I say that I do care about the poor, that's why I'm for taxes and willing to pay my share?

  • Then you would give an equal amount to charity, and thus do not need the state...

  • I might, but everybody else might not, and my money alone are not enough to help the poor :)

  • Comment removed

  • On a practical stand

    point, you could perhaps run a charity and advocate others to aid in your noble cause.

  • Ah... so you're willing to use the threat of violence to force them anyway. And that makes you moral how?

  • Some people might consider violence a reasonable end to certain means.

  • Yeah, those people are evil.

  • Why?

  • Comment removed

  • Since you were the one accusing people of being evil, perhaps you should define it?

  • I'm stating that those who initiate violence and see that as an acceptable means to an end are evil. Why?

    There are many ways to answer that, but unless I know your point of reference, this will devolve quickly into a frustrating wild goose chase.

  • But it's you who call people evil so I believe that it would be fair that you simply say why said people are evil. Don't you?

  • I see. I'm still not really sure how this ties in with this video, but I agree that there is a good chance that demand for education can never be fully met, especially when we start discussing the quality of teaching staff and the standards we might expect them to teach.

  • @Jimbo8086: Sorry, I don't really understand your point.

    I'm not saying anything about providing teachers. I'm saying that where there is demand for a service, with no restrictions preventing the demand from being met, then whether the demand is met is simply determined by the free market.

    In this case, there is either not enough demand for these classes, or the free market has failed to provide an alternative. It seems to me that in neither case is the government at fault.

  • You are just so pleased with yourself.

  • About the seatbelts thing. I did a quick wikipedia search. They quote a 2001 Harvard study claiming no correlation like the one you mention. You do not site any reference, so can you back up your claim?

  • Look again, wikipedia, under seat_belt, scroll to the Risk Compensation part, it mentions the same thing Stefan said: unbuckled drivers tend to drive faster once buckled up.

    The Independance Institute has lots more info, i2i org search for: seat belt laws.

    Of course government and law enforcement documents say opposite, treating you like sheeple is what they do, you have to research deeper yourself to find the truth.

  • Wikipedia does but the Harvard study does not.

  • They just put roundabouts up instead of lights. In Denmark we have been doing this for ages, and it does work. It does however not mean fewer rules just different ones.

  • You say things that no one else does, Thanks!

  • we look in the god dam mirror THAT'S HOW WE KNOW

  • Very inspiring. Keep up the good work

  • Excellent video!!

  • I don't understand why you would say that the government's providing a free class can be considered as the denial of education. You say yourself that not only was the class full for an extended period, but that the quality of the tuition was low. It seems to me that this would only create greater demand for private solutions. Were this service created by a charity organisation instead of the government, I hardly think you would accuse them of denying people education.

  • What you're forgetting is that there's such a thing as "opportunity cost". When the government provides a "free" service, it's not really free. They're getting the money from somewhere else - taxes. Stef's argument is that without taxes, the extra money in the system would be used more efficiently, and education would be a competitive business built around results and customer satisfaction rather than political interests.

  • Well he doesn't seem to make any mention of this in the video, or have I missed something?

    I actually think that's irrelevant as well. His claim was that their actions -- in spite of how they may be funded -- are actually preventing people from receiving education in the same category since nobody can compete with these free classes. The point is that there seems still to be a lot of demand for these classes, and I don't see why a private solution isn't viable to fill the gap.

    Do you?

  • Like I said to the other below, how does it make more sense to use private sector funds to setup a business that will compete with something free, well everyone is already paying for it with their taxes so it's not really free to get less than adequate education.

    You think investors will put money and time into building this business and training better teachers so they can compete with something that is free?

    Do you?

  • I think that this is what free-market voluntarists think. Stefan has made it perfectly clear that what currently exists in this area (the free classes) are of poor availability and poor quality. I see absolutely no reason why private groups are prevented from stepping in and offering a paid service with better quality.

    The fact that "a free alternative" exists shouldn't affect the ideas of free market voluntarism, if the free alternative is incredibly limited.

  • The fact is that you are being forced to pay for it, too. This breaks the analogy with people discouraging private alternatives by providing service for free.

  • How does the fact that people are already paying for it affect whether a private company is able to set up an alternative?

    That's what Stefan said, and that's the point I've contested.

  • Really? And who will invest money and training to compete with free classes? Tax money is funding less than adequate classes so private sector funds should be used to compete with free classes paid for with taxes, great solution!

  • As an example:

    If I give away 10 litres of bitter lemonade for free every day, you wouldn't claim I'm preventing people from drinking lemonade, since others are perfectly free to compete with this by offering a better service with a better quality drink, and which can meet a greater demand.

    In addition, if the business is not viable, then it's because people would choose not to support an alternative solution. If the business fails, it's because the market allowed it to.

    This = voluntarism.

  • Good point about education - especially when such a service is forced on people who don't really need or use it.

    If the free market is as powerful as you say, what's to stop a scompany 'filling the niche' for people like you who need a class. Most people just turn to the internet I guess - problem solved by the world's greatest anarchic entity! Anyways, I suppose I answered my own question.

  • With regard to the government driving out private education, I just want to nit-pick with you. It seems to me that the unacceptable delay would leave a window open for private providers to offer the education when it is needed. When I need information, I find it somewhere, often for free. So the government program just becomes useless redundancy. You sign up for it because it's free, and then learn what you need to know elsewhere while you're waiting.

  • Excellent video - I love you! When I learned to drive, I didn't wear a seat belt. I distinctly remember, when seat belt wearing became "the law" in my state, the psychological effect of putting on my seat belt. I felt like a race car driver strapping myself in for a dangerous ride. I suddenly felt a little more daring!

  • Wow, just, wow. Raw power, powerful video, extremely powerful punchline. I'm going to use this in the future.

  • Good video.

  • Hey Mr Molyneux, love the True News series, as always. But surely you must have midwifes up in Canada, right? Now that's a free market solution to your government classes problem if there's ever one. I would highly highly recommend you and Christina sit down and watch the documentary "The Business of Being Born" (avail only through Netflix) I'd wager it might even impress you enough to make a video review of it! :)

  • I rode a motorcycle through the countryside(and I mean COUNTRY) and jungle of Ecuador....many times there were no lanes for traffic going in either direction or signs anywhere. I was able to ride quite fast and also quite safely.

  • wait does that mean stef doesn't really care about Holocaust survivors? He doesn't seem to be doing anything for them.

  • I don't really care about them. Obviously whatever they went through was v traumatic but join the club. The world is full of evil. Fight that which you can.

  • I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but at any rate, I think that's reading too much into Stef's point. We all have causes we care about, yet do nothing about, for various reasons (such as time and other resources being limited). Stef's argument is that if you're not willing to put in effort for X cause, you probably don't care about it (enough) and should shut up. It's just that, because Stef is an educator, his argument becomes all the more poignant.

  • Logically, it doesn't make sense to advocate gov't take up all of "humanity's" causes if one believes that a person couldn't possibly do things for all the causes he/she is concerned about. It's true that not everyone can contribute to X cause(s), that's why a division of labor is developed. To put gov't in control of said causes due to this fact is less than ideal because the same will still hold true except we get worst results, for as we all know gov't is terribly wasteful and inefficient.

  • Even if what you say is true, I am not denying anyone else's freedom for my own indifference... :)

  • Hey Stef. I tried your strategy by asking this man if education means so much for you then what do in the name of education. He answered, "nothing." I asked, " why?" He told me, "because I"m not an educator." I thought wow. But I'm not too concerned since he admitted to me that if there was a starving person, that he would have no bones stealing from me to feed that person. That it is NOT immoral to steal from me. So no sense taking too much time concerning myself with someone like that.

  • Wow indeed. Robbing someone to help a starving man defeats the whole purpose of helping; because you might be starving another man in the process.

  • While anarchism seems to have far far far less problems then statism, there still problems. The non agression principle is not enough to cover say.. what to do when you witness child molestation, or child abuse on the street. NAP says "If you do nothing you are not initiating violence so it's O.K. to do nothing" which we don't even need philosophy to tell that this is the wrong answer. Continued...

  • The central question is whether you would initiate the use of force against someone who did not help a child? I would not. I have also written in my free book Practical Anarchy have children will be protected in a stateless society, you might want to check it out. :)

  • I will actually. I'm very anxious to learn your strategy. I've tried to explain a stateless society to my friends, it usually hits a brick wall @ "power will still congregate and the less fortunate will become puppets working in a free market with no potential to close the gap between rich and poor" -The only way I've found to argue this is by proposing eugenics @ which point I just concede the argument because I'm against eugenics. I'm indeed very curious, are you against eugenics Stef?

  • good question....

  • @stefbot So pretty much If you came home and found an unarmed man intiating force against your wife and daughter in the front yard, and a few of my friends and I had happened by on bicycles, a few minutes before you arrived, and we were armed but only observed the violent rape and murder of your family, indeed we could have saved their lives/prevented their rape with no risk to ourselves but did not, you would not initiate any force against us? You'd allow us to walk away?

  • @Avocada99 I think I would rush to take care of my wife and daughter, I don't think I would care much about you at all...

  • @stefbot yea avacado ur basically saying ur a weak human being during times of actual hardship......jus sayin

  • The issue here,and the only issue here is this-Do I have a choice?

    Just like Marc Stevens says:"Should any service be provided at the barrel of a gun"?

  • @newexperiment The initiation of force is wrong. Nobody said anything about defending yourself or others.

  • Comment removed

  • What's the connection between this video and Stef not caring for holocaust survivors? There are countless survivors in the world who need help, clearly impossible for 1 person to help each and everyone of these millions who right now have no food, shelter or medicine but everyone should do something about holocause survivors? It matters much more to help as many as you can locally and help internationaly when possible.

  • Exactly my point. Just because someone isn't doing something for the poor, does not mean the don't care or don't have the right to care. Extrapolating this to say I advocate the existence of government to do anything is a simple logical error.

  • You are way off comparing it with Holocaust survivors. If there were no Holocaust survivors, we would have nobody to care for, right? Just brilliant. What about the Holocaust victims?

    There can't be no poor people... This is why the nature invented the natural selection after all.

    I like Stefan's approach on... "wtf do you care?" logic, is good to use it especially with "asking question" people that are not coming with solutions/suggestions.

  • lolwut?

    Replace holocaust survivors with lost children or orphan's who's parents died in a traffic accident. Also, I never knew stef was a proponent of social Darwinism ...

  • In china there are literally almost no traffic laws, and no such thing as road rage.

    True facts.

  • Very well said.

  • i was just wondering what you would say to someone who said taxes were the way in which they helped the poor.

  • Poverty is a byproduct of humanity. The population will grow until (obviously) the birthrate and deathrate are equal and that happens when people die in poverty because of illnesses, hunger, etc (we are not different from other species in nature). Help will result in more people and not in less poverty. Help will in the end even increase poverty and raise dependency on help.

  • "Poverty is a byproduct of humanity".

    Err, no. Poverty is the result of the lack of distribution of goods and services to people. The technology to feed the world exists. "We are not different from other species in nature" Err, yes we are. Maybe not biologically, but socially and technologically, there are differences. Humans have money, governments, and art. Even modern art, what's with that?

  • This is not correct. If everything was distributed perfectly we just breed until we are with so many people that we live all in poverty. We are just not able to keep our number under control and that's just like other animals. Because of fossil fuels we are now with 6.6 billion but when they are gone we will be back to <1 billion again. Technological fixes will help allmost nothing. It just shifts the balance a bit. Money, governments and art will probably have a negative influence.

  • "This is not correct. If everything was distributed perfectly we just breed until we are with so many people that we live all in poverty" There you go again comparing animals and humans in an inappropriate situation. Animals consume until the environment no longer permits them to. Humans do the same, but have something call technology. Modern technology permits ALL PEOPLE to have adequate access to food and energy. Animals don't have modern technology, lol. Your comparison is invalid.

  • There no need to controll humanitys numbers as much as our consideration for our enviroments. this planet is far from overpopulated. in fact. its not even close. Every man woman and child could have 2 acres of land and live inside a land mass roughly the size of Austrailia. check that out, the math fits. the world is just poorly managed you have our governments to thank for that. if the human pop starts hitting 24 billion than theres reason to sweat, but i doubt it ever will.

  • Massive iron spikes FTW.

  • Absolutely - well said Mr. M.

    If anyone doubts the veracity of your argument about street lights and signs, just point them to Bombay, India. I was literally awe struck by the literal thousands of bikes, cars, mopeds, et al that careened and cut back and forth all day without a single accident. There are no lines or signs, just millions rapidly negotiating like ants on carrion. It is truly the 8th wonder of the world if you've experienced it.

    Governments supplant education with Bureaucracy.

  • I love the part where the city road engineer states that he is not an anarchist. Because there are oh so many anarchists working in the government.

  • Beautifull

  • that's what i was going to say ' shut up about the question..'

    good vid as always.

  • Anarchist: "What are YOU doing to educate the poor?"

    Statist:  "I vote for liberal politicians, thereby volunteering to pay more taxes to care for the poor."

  • That only works if they give more money to the government in taxes than they take in via handouts and government services. lol

  • Well, whaddya know... People's desire to stay alive is the best incentive to traffic safety.

    But how would I know I want to continue living if the government didn't tell me that's what I want?

  • I love this. It reminds me of old zen stories. Like the master and his students who walk up the hill to dig a well or some damn thing, then realize they forgot to bring a shovel, and they argue for five minutes about who should get the shovel when they realize the master is gone. They spot him halfway down the hill, having left a long time ago to get the shovel.

    It makes me think of the question posed, "Well, what are YOU going to do about?"

    Nothing? Fine. Something? Great! Done! Bam baby!

  • So amazingly mind-blowing...Thanks for showing me new ways to think!!!

  • loving the facial expressions btw haha 12:10

  • any LIVE feeds for july 4th? =)

  • Great job Stefan, one more for the side of reason and truth!

  • What are you trying to say? Anarchy makes things better? The hell you say :D Thanks, I understand the stateless society a little better now.

  • oh wow.

    look at that.

    interesting...

  • If nothing else you made me realise that I have no right to assert that the poor need to be taken care of.

  • You know, I was going to same the same thing, and maybe a lot of people would, too. If you take away government schools and not enough people care enough about educating the poor, the worse case scenario is that the poor will degenerate to a point where it effects us. And at that point, we will care.

    But that's just the worse case scenario. I would find it incredibly hard to believe that we could find a better way to dumb down poor people than to put them through government schools.

  • You mean no one would take these classes by private business? They sure would. You sure would have, for instance.

  • Entrepreneurs don't have a clear reason to create a business that sells these classes because the government doesn't straight-up announce it's class unavailability. There are many reasons that is it too risky.

    Also, people aren't educated that government classes are full and inconvenient like this.

    If the government wasn't there to offer a free class, entrepreneurs would have a less risky endeavor to make a business.

    Plus, that's only one way the government can deny education.

  • Okay. Here for example there are a lot of private business that do dental work and also other medical work, although the state is providing these things as well. The state seem happy to be relieved of some of the responsibility rather than trying to eliminate these. People pay more for their treatment because the private business don't take more customers than they can handle, and so the treatment improves when you pay. There might be a gold mine here, and I don't believe it is risky.

  • Imagine the low prices these private business would have to sell their classes with.

    I think medical work is a bit different than merely having educational classes.

  • 5:40 yup, no child left behind=federal dumbing down!

  • BAM BABY! This video is awesome!

  • what about the roads?

    why do libertarians hate the poor?

    nice vid stef

  • :-D!!!!

  • sad thing is that this is never mentioned in the dutch press, and everywhere else in holland traffic regulation is getting ever more draconian and every problem is "solved" by increasing fines, adding stupid obstacles etc. etc. (but somehow the problem only gets worse.... that can only mean we weren't draconian enough and fines were too low, right?) it's just so sad...

  • i actually live in the neighbourhood of drachten and in the hole "city"(it's not a city really but whateva) there are only two spots where they still have trafficlights the rest is all roundabouts and stuff. works great as far as i can tell. great vid!

  • oh commmented to early i see. :P

  • i agree. this is awsome.

  • thanks for sharing, great insight as usual

    hoping for video from your july 4 discussion in philadelphia

  • YES!

  • i love your vids! the best thing about being an anarchist is telling people you are. they usually give me a semi-scared/confused look. they then say something like "... but that is violent overthrowing of government" i try to clarify what anarchy is. this plants an anarchy seed in thier minds, and refer them to your videos =D

  • Who can make the muddy water clear?

    Not the government, that's for sure. They are just splashing away like mad and everyone gets dirty and wet.

  • I learn more from these videos and other lectures on youtube then I do in government school.

  • Same here, I am a psych major in college but I learn more on 1 day online than 1 week in school.

  • thats the truth tartsphere... major in comp science and so far all that I can see me getting out of a 3 year diploma is debt, time wasted, and a piece of paper.

    Books + Internet + People With Passion = lots of great knowledge

  • Wow, stef got a funny.

  • Do this to banking systems and everything else and the world will improve.

    Risk curbs behavior.

  • Put lights on a road and people wall always put their foot down and try to jump them. Resulting in accidents.

  • when my town had an ice storm that knocked out power to most of the city, all intersections with non-working lights were treated as 4-way stops. it became a pleasure to drive around town... and made me wonder how much money was being wasted on the expenses and energy for the lights.

  • that happened here once in the middle of the night about 6 weeks ago, and driving was way better than it is during the day with traffic lights...!

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