Angular bow

[Lukos0036]

Mikes bow looks like it lost some tiller on one limb.

[minxel16]

No hornbow made to date can shoot 300fps! That even competes with modern compound bows. He must not know what 200fps is

[minxel16]

lol the historian quoted compound bows at 1.16-totally out of time mate!

[Divertedflight]

At 2:27 the sinews are seen wrapped around the bow and while this isn't false as it was often done with some composite bows. It is a little misleading, as most of the sinew fibre was laid lengthways on the wood on the opposite side to that which has the horn glued to it.

[Divertedflight]

Alan Lloyd make a bit of a flub at 1:07 and 1:12 he calls the composite bow a compound bow.

Easily done, and sounds similar, but they're quite different bows.

[5tonyvvvv]

Osage make great single stave bows.and mulberry

[MrSnorreke]

I have a question: I am not expert for all bow types but does anyone here think that composite bow mongolian type that appears in this documentary is actually avaric type bow judging by the angle of ears. I do not see the ''knee'' as it is usually in mongolian type bows? Thanx. Anyway, wonderful video, 5/5. Egyptian bow is just real bomb.

[dileb112]

That bow is certainly not mongolian design. It is not avar, either. It seems with a hungarian bow, but not the "true" hungarian design. Everything else being egual, ears less recurved mean less energy stored. It's about the force vectors, decomposition of forces, length ratio between the ears and the flexible limbs and, also, this ratio must make a good compromise with the "moving mass". Designs that work better for speed are turkish and korean.

[MrSnorreke]

Hm, nice comment, you talk like Costel Chiriac;-)

Greets from Serbia

[dileb112]

I must admit I don't know at who Costel Chiriac you refer, although I'm romanian, too.

Greets from Romania.

[MrSnorreke]

Costel Chiriac is one of most known archaeologist (i think for byzantine studies specially). 12 y.ago i get ''Etudes Byzantine en post-Byzantines III'' Societe Roumaine d'etudes byzantines'' i get from one Romanian professor my friend. Man, what i searched for the years i found in this book. Costel Chiriac did research on ''About presence of composite bow at Tropaeum Traiani''. It was first time for me to come to know about construct. of horn bow ,sources and more. But your knowledge is nice

[5tonyvvvv]

The mongols made shorter horse bows and longer ones over 60 inches for foot soldiers.the egyptian bows are not weak.there were deadly too.and single stave yew long bows are very powerful up to 100LB draw pull.

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv its more or on average 160lb draw pull for the mongol bow

[5tonyvvvv]

@Richenov most are not that strong man,,u read that iam sure..ive shoot both long bows and composite bows they are both amazing bows and very powerful..Yew is becoming very hard to find and only for rich guys.anything over 60LB..would only be used in War .iam sure u havent worked with Yew

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv a respect that but if you lived in or near mongolia. you can make your own one but that would be difficult considering it may take up to years to make it. or

go and ask the fine men who have being making them for years if they could help you make one why buy one when you can make one

[5tonyvvvv]

@Richenov i have made bows man..they dont takes years it depends on what glues u are using.traditional .glues will take longer...i have made a ash composite bow with cattle sinew..fully dried and usable in 6 months..now Yew is another story..its all gone and way to expensive..the sapwood is always an issue for bowyers..the native scraped it off..while the english left it on..the tillering process is .very technical i cant explain..its a skill that was passed down from father to son

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv ok i am saying that i Know that the mongol composite bow has being passed down from father to son the yew seems like it had no use other then for war

and it was later replaced by the flint lock guns and thats might be why its hard to find

it. but im not talking about the yew

[MrLantean]

@Richenov Its true that there are no surviving yew longbows from the 100 Years War period. The yew longbow is useful other than for war. English hunters used them to hunt animals or outlaws used them to rob people or fend off law enforcers. Most surviving longbows came from the ship of Henry VIII, 'Mary Rose'.

[5tonyvvvv]

@Richenov people today have no clue how to make a bow..compound bows are amazing weapons..but the ancient skill of bowyers has to be shown u cant learn from a book..

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv thats why im good friends with the mongol archers out their in the Gobi desert man good books and history can help make the ideal horseback bow

[5tonyvvvv]

@Richenov Nice,those people are hard to find..i like the thumb release..those bows are no joke..they would give a modern compound bow serious competition..what is there preferred wood choice?..mulberry is a great bow wood in asia and is well known for its compression..what glues are they using?..do they use the rope method of wrapping?

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv well the bow is made out of many things its glued on by i fish guts glue and how it works is you heat up guts of the fish. i forget the rest of how to but they also use animal bones cartilage horns and birch tree. you must remember that mongolia dose not have a lot of trees its a desert.

[5tonyvvvv]

@Richenov i was not granted access into certain parts of china,when i went,as an american,,tell me how u travelled so easily?

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv well i was born in russia and more Mongols live out of mongolia then in it. well i left russia went to america and then came back to russia the group of mongols are called BURYATS they live in russia and near mongolia they Knew a few thing about archery that makes me look like a novice. some of them have even gone or have being in the Naadam festival. one of the worlds top archery challenge.

[5tonyvvvv]

@Richenov what woods do they like to use?

[Richenov]

@5tonyvvvv birch tree and some bamboo but in thin lairs and they also had leather tied around it but horns and bones are also used for it

[MrLantean]

@Richenov Many types of wood are suitable for making composite bow. In Mongolia, birch is prefered because of its tension resistance wood. In China, bamboo and mulberry wood is used. From a tv documentary, the wood for Indian Moghul composite bow is from mango trees. The Turks uses oak or maple in their bow construction.

[minxel16]

@MrLantean not tension but a mix of tension and compression since it was placed between the sinew and horn so a much greater range of woods could be used. if you're interested juniper was also great in compression so bamboo composites mainly used that as the belly

[MrLantean]

@5tonyvvvv Actually the compound bow is a modern bow that uses a levering system, usually of cables and pulleys, to bend the limbs. Nowadays people call composite bows compound bows despite different construction methods. It is a good thing that composite bows are still being constructed the traditional way using original materials. It takes years of experience to become a professional bowyer.

[5tonyvvvv]

@MrLantean yes iam aware of this..this is why people today are better shots..because of the anchor point of the compound bows..people today also dont know what Yew is.or osage..

[MrLantean]

@5tonyvvvv The compound bow is primarily used for sporting events. This type of bow is used during modern archery competitions. Although the compund bow is very accurate, it has a much slower rate of firing compared to traditional bows. It is also much noisier as well. The compound bow is not suitable for war.

[5tonyvvvv]

@MrLantean i never said it was used for war..u are mixing things up i said the composite bow from ancient times..

[MrLantean]

@5tonyvvvv I am refering to the modern compound bow. If this type of bow is used during warfare, the archer will be at a disadvantage as he is unable to shoot as many arrows as the archers with composite or longbows. High rate of firing is more important than accuracy for a company of archers to release hails of arrows.

[jabames]

The sinew wasn't wrapped around the bow, it was layered on the side facing away from the shooter.

[TYKKETYKKE]

For an arrow to reach a speed of 300 feet per second, the bow would have to pull around 150lbs. Most modern fiberglass bows with a drawweight around 70lbs, will just exceed 200fps.

[LotusDragon09]

Certain materials and designs can store even more energy regardless of draw weight. From what you are saying, a native american bow with the same draw weight as a mongol bow has the same power, which isnt true at all. I dont know for sure if any traditional bow can reach 300fps, but some designs are defenatly better than others. The only way to test which bow is more powerful is to make sure they are the same draw weight, use the dame arrow, and shoot them through a velocity meter.

[TYKKETYKKE]

Nope, I'm not saying that draw weight is the most important factor here. I'm saying; the mongolian replica bow he shot in this video, is not powerful enough to launch an arrow at a speed of 300fps. I'm pretty certain, that a really heavy horn/sinew bow (at around 150# or more) will be able to, though.

[LotusDragon09]

Oh ok. Yeah, a traditionally constructed bow is much better. I bet his bow is made of mostly fiberglass. Im also guessing his bow has a draw weight of around 45-60 pounds as thats the typical target shooting draw weight. I do know horse bows didnt have as much draw weight as seige bows because you couldnt use your entire body to draw the string back while sitting on a horse.

[MrLantean]

The composite bow is the bow of choice for people from Korea all the way to Eastern Europe. It is far superior than the more well-known English longbow. This bow delivered the furthest range of any projectile weapons and remained unsurpassed until the invention of breech loading rifles in the 1860s.

[lifes40123]

@MrLantean english long bow shoots farther than composite bow.. composite bow is stronger than long bow.

[MrLantean]

@lifes40123 That is not true. The English longbow is able to shoot farther compared to other self bows due to the length of the weapon and the type of wood used in its cosntruction. In 1798, the Ottoman sultan shot arrow with a Turkish composite bow at the present of the English ambassador and it flew 976 yards. The record for the longbow is 479 yards.

[Richenov]

@MrLantean agreed

[whowantsabighug]

not for vegetarians

[5tonyvvvv]

sounds good

[5tonyvvvv]

simple single stave bows are not simple,they r deadly and powerful,yew flat bows r amazing,and known for there distance.

[5tonyvvvv]

composite tips have more spring,but power is a big factor,i use a 110 pound yew 74 inch longbow.its too big on horeback,but its so strong,much stronger than u would think.ive shoot just as far and accurate,with the same velocity.flexiablity i give to the composite bow,but raw power the longbow wins.

[5tonyvvvv]

primtive single stave bows r just as deadly,and powerful.

[5tonyvvvv]

true,depending on how its made,but not always the case.single stave flat yew bows r very powerful well over 100lb..thers nothing simple about single stave bows .they can be just as powerful..composite,r better on chairtos,and horseback.

[5tonyvvvv]

there is a big misconceprion that composite bows are stronger than self bows..they are really the same.composite bows are more flexiable..but a single piece of yew is just as strong..a 70lb yew longbow is just as deadly as a 70lb mongol composite.

[dileb112]

In fact, the composite bow of 70lb will have an "average draw weight" higher than the 70 yew, so the composite stores more energy than the selfbow. On the other hand, the selfbow transfers in the arrow a higher % from the energy stored. Modern recurves are a good compromise between energy stored and efficiency, being more efficient than the selfbow and capable to store energy almost as well as a composite.

[5tonyvvvv]

no dude there pretty much the same.

[5tonyvvvv]

the shorter composite bows are better on horseback yes.but the japanese use ridiclious long yumi bows on horse back too..yumi shooting style is very overexaggerated,and unnecessary.

[whowantsabighug]

its amazing how they never mention the sling, that was the basic yet effective weapon most armies have used worldwide, its like the spear, used almost everywhere, and they dont mention it because it is to 'barbaric'

[5tonyvvvv]

the gods gave us the bow!!

[rattyarchery]

prof alan Lloyd needs to learn a little more about archery.

they were not shooting compound bows, they are a new invention with wheels.

they would have been shooting composite bows.

pfff experts.

[garvonfamily]

I will reiterate what I said, this bow is not shooting at 300fps and perhaps the ancients did, but not this bow with fingers. The thumb release would have facilitated much higher numbers so that is plausable but not fingers and not this bow.

[garvonfamily]

I guarantee this bow was not shooting at that speed. The host says it in a manner referring to this bow. Not even the bow makers who are making exact replicas are stating a 300fps capability. NO ONE!!

You are right though. The ancient war bows would have been much heavier, but none the less not 300fps. This is the only reference of such speed anywhere.

[dileb112]

A present day bow expert, Adam Karpowicz, tested some turkish traditional bows he made (turkish and coreean designs are the fastest with light arrows). He said he'd reached 357 fps with a 125lbs flight design, 203 grains arrow. If you do the phisical calculation, you'll see it is possible. Still, in battles were use much heavier arrows for 125 lbs bow (and 125 lbs is pretty hard to draw). War arrows could have had innitial speed between 170 and 220 fps.

[garvonfamily]

What is striking to me that there is nothing new under the sun. Reflex deflex and even the materials and technique that people come up with as a breakthrough is nothing more than copying what has already been done..........the 300 feet per second I would like to see on a chronograph. That is really high.........I would like to see the evidence.

[recurvebows]

the guy showing how to craft and how to shoot certainly did not do his homework :)

[dileb112]

On mongol bow...if it's best: how to define "best" in terms of speed? There are traditional designs giving top performance with heavy arrows (for ratios arrow weight/ bow draw weight at max draw lenght over 1.5 grams/kgf, longbow would be best, for ratios under 1 turkish & korean). As a rule, a bow giving more energy at a certain draw weight, but less efficient (asian design, very recurved but high "moving" mass) will do better with light arrows & vice-versa. I've tested and is true (& logical).

[5tonyvvvv]

iam a bowyer,i would know,i build yew and elm longbows,as well as composite bows.they are the same as far as pound weights,and draw.but the composite bows are better on horseback,and easier to fire..but as far as power they are equal.

[lantean]

The Mongolian composite bow is recurved in shape. Recurved bows allows the arrows to travel faster and achieved the furthest range. The shape of the bow is vital to its range and penetration power. Even self bows could utilized the recurved shape. Many English longbows depicted in illustrations were often recurved in shape

[teemuruskeepaa]

Isn't the mongol composite bow the best?

[recurvebows]

to define what is "best" as for shape would be really hard

[teemuruskeepaa]

I didn't say "shape"

[recurvebows]

ofc. but "mongol(ian) is a shape :) or...?

[teemuruskeepaa]

The superiority of the Mongol Composite Bow is determined through various other characteristics along with shape

[recurvebows]

such as?