To JonathanTheAlchemist, what you're stating in your conversation with TheOrthodoxSteven illustrates the problem that TOS is pointing out in today's atheists. You are hopelessly trying to create a false dichotomy of 'science vs theism' by reducing the rational theistic and philosophical understanding of God to the level of materialism. As long as you keep maintaining this misdirected notion, you are not aware of what you are rejecting. Or how to properly reject it.
The Russians learned their lesson...America has not. Foolish leaders have seen to it to try and exponge the 'new world' of their 'ignorance' and 'backward' ideas.
The atheists murdered approximately fifty million of them, destroyed their churches and monasteries, imprisoned and tortured their bishops and priests, and lied to and abused their children, but they could not take their Faith! The history of Russia in the 20th is one that reveals the absolute barbarism, fury, immorality, and ultimate impotence and futility of atheism and the endurance, the inspiration, the hope, the life, and the truth of the Christian faith.
So much for the argument of atheists that only reason folks are religious is because of indoctrination ;-). After almost 100 years of being brainwashed from early childhood for atheism and against God, it's "MIRACULOUS" that Christianity is on such a powerful rise in Russia and atheism has been reduced to a small band of a few men meeting in one room !
There was once a form of atheism that was worth engaging and against which one could have a rigorous exchange, and that was the atheism of Nietzsche and his heirs the existentialists of the 20th century. At least they knew what they were rejecting and took seriously the full implications of rejecting it. Modern atheists, epitomized by Dawkins and the now late Hitchens, are neither morally nor intellectually serious and have no clue what they're rejecting, much less what they're embracing.
@JonathanTheAlchemist Perfect! I just love when I make a point and then someone shows up to demonstrate and being a living example of that point. Brilliant.
@JonathanTheAlchemist I answered your statement. If what you mean is that I failed to answer some point you made then I'm afraid you'll have to refresh me on what that point was. You simply asked a rhetorical (and petulant) question. Am I supposed to take that seriously or attempt to ascribe some meaning to such a meaningless utterance?
@JonathanTheAlchemist Well, to begin with I reject the position of logical positivists and extreme empiricists who claim the only truth we can know is what can be demonstrated (or falsified) in empirical terms. This is a fallacious epistemology which cannot even justify itself. But yes, there are numerous quite sound arguments for the existence of God. As with other metaphysical beliefs, however, following Alvin Plantinga, I regard belief in God as a properly basic belief.
-"...only truth we can know is what can be demonstrated (or falsified) in empirical terms."-
I don't see scientists and their brethren using "faith" in their works. It seems as if evidence based research has been the most successful form of research so far. Is that why it is a more popular way of finding truth as opposed to faith? Probably so.
@JonathanTheAlchemist This has been an interesting exchange, but its clear to me that, like most atheists I've encountered, you want to stay very near the surface of these issues where obfuscation can abound and false arguments can pass for good ones. The fact is, however, that the sort of radical empiricism and logical positivism (which is a dogma of the "new atheism") cannot even be used to justify itself, let alone the proposition that there is no god.
That has nothing to do with what I argued. You said the following: "it is likewise a basic ... belief of humanity to believe in a God" (see, below.) I brought polytheism since raises questions regarding the aforementioned argument. If belief in a God (presumably, the Christian one), is so essential to mankind, why do polytheistic religions exist?
(Contd.) Monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Zoroastrianism arrived late in history, why? I'm not convinced that belief in a God is so intrinsic to mankind. Asking questions is, though. This probably gave rise to religion and continues to do so.
-"...you want to stay very near the surface of these issues..."-
I have yet to see the evidence I've asked for.
-"...false arguments can pass for good ones."-
Such as what? The argument from beauty/complexity?
@JonathanTheAlchemist So, just as it is "properly basic" for us to believe in the existence of minds other than our own, it is likewise a basic, essential and intuitive belief of humanity to believe in a God. And the truth, of course, is that of all metaphysical pictures of the universe the materialist view is the most rationally incoherent and the one that requires the greatest pure leap of faith, as it cannot be reduced to first principles that hold together.
-"... intuitive belief of humanity to believe in a God."-
Where's your evidence of this? Millions of peoples lived around the world for thousands without monotheism. You, by default, do not accept the existence of any of these deities. Who knows? Maybe it is you probably doesn't know what he/she is denying. I'd appreciate solid evidence for the existence of the biblical God.
@JonathanTheAlchemist It really is difficult to have this sort of conversation with someone who simply isn't equipped with the requisite philosophical and theological grammar, if you will, to discuss these issues. In any event, the difference between, say, the polytheism of Hinduism and the monotheism of Christianity is theological, not philosophical. We both embrace the reality of a supernatural dimension and deny the silly and useless musings of strict materialists.
-"...requisite philosophical and theological grammar..."-
Since this video is about communism, let us use that as an illustration of your logic. Should I not dismiss Marxism because I do not have college level knowledge of the labor theory of value as well as the contributions of individual Marxists? Absolutely not.
-"We both embrace the reality of a supernatural dimension...."-
May I ask what sort of evidence you have to back this claim up?
I am Syriac and I love my Russian brother. One Orthodox church is the culture and history in many lands. Even when the Soviets were in power they mirrored the Eastern Orthodox rites with their own Icons and processions
@ptichkalix I was about to say, Xavier is the anglicanized version of Javier, a Spanish name. It would be strange (or impossible) for an Orthodox cathedral to be named after a Roman Catholic Saint, St. Francis Xavier! Now, if it were a Greek cathedral, I wouldn't be so surprised...just kidding.
@AbidingDood: Do you mean the that the Greeks would "accept" a RC saint and you wouldn't be surprised? Are you nuts? This is slander! Who taught you this? If you are Russian all the worse, because we Greeks respect you and think of you as brothers! Shame! I hope you are fasting these days!
@amalialovesicecream This is why I shouldn't joke on the internet. I am Catholic, and Greek bishops are stereotyped as Catholic-friendly and liberal (many are, many more are not), especially when compared to the Russians. It was only a joke, I apologize for the offense.
@Neizvestnyu And for that I'll say God bless Russia every time. I'll say it during the mornings, noons, the evenings and at night. GOD BLESS RUSSIA. I'll pick Russia over the U.S.A. ANY DAY. Thank God for Russia! Thank God for Putin! And thank God for the glory that will rise for this re-born Mother Land! The Tsars would be proud!
Cathedral of Christ the Saviour is not actually the biggest Orthodox Cathedral in the world, maybe the biggest in Russia... Saint Sava is the biggest...
@Nikolai7575 Orthodox Christianity is not religion. It is truth and life. When it devolves into simply religion then it is just another random idea competing with other random ideas. Authentic Orthodox Christianity however, is not that. Be very careful agreeing with the Soviets - the casual murder of millions of people is a direct result of the meaninglessness of that kind of existence. If people are just another bit of slime growing in the universe then they don't matter at all.
@Nikolai7575 Orthodox Christianity is not religion. It is truth and life. When it devolves into simply religion then it is just another random idea competing with other random ideas. Authentic Orthodox Christianity however, is not that. Be very careful agreeing with the Soviets - the casual murder of millions of people is a direct result of the meaninglessness of that kind of existence. If people are just another bit of slime growing in the universe then they don't matter at all.
@Nikolai7575 Orthodox Christianity is not religion. It is truth and life. When it devolves into simply religion then it is just another random idea competing with other random ideas. Authentic Orthodox Christianity however, is not that. Be very careful agreeing with the Soviets - the casual murder of millions of people is a direct result of the meaninglessness of that kind of existence. If people are just another bit of slime growing in the universe then they don't matter at all.
A tad biased, isn't it? You can tell the reporter sees Orthodoxy as a generic religion ; as something psychological that fulfills some biological need in the human brain. Look at how shocked and disappointed he is at the state of atheism! It is no surprise that the atheists are so bland, and boring, and dull. When you reject the Life in the Church, you in turn embrace death and nihilism. How sad for them.
@scottm124 I'm perfectly happy as an atheist. It's a wonderful thing 2 me. To be able to make your own decisions about who and what u want 2 be, it's so liberating.
@Gahuki44 I'm sure it does. It always seems that way, doesn't it? And yet you will have no purpose or meaning other than just being another bit of a random universe (the formation of which is itself taken on faith), and when you inevitably die you will be no more. You just vanish. How very comforting indeed!
@scottm124 I have plenty of meaning & purpose. I have decided that I am here 2 try & make the world better. I will live on in my actions & in the hearts of those I touch. I try 2 b the best person I can & it shows. Since I believe that there is no afterlife I enjoy the time I spend w/ those I love so much more since they might not b here 2morrow. I wish u the best life has 2 offer. May u get all the Peace & Happiness u deserve.
@Gahuki44 And you as well. I do wish you would reconsider however. If you ever would like to know more intellectually I can recommend a few resources. Google 'prince vladimir and orthodoxy' to see the story of how Russia became Orthodox. In that spirit I invite you attend and Orthodox Liturgy so that you too mkay not know whether you are in heaven or on earth!
@Gahuki44 And you as well. I do wish you would reconsider however. If you ever would like to know more intellectually I can recommend a few resources. Google 'prince vladimir and orthodoxy' to see the story of how Russia became Orthodox. In that spirit I invite you attend and Orthodox Liturgy so that you too mkay not know whether you are in heaven or on earth!
It's important for the world to know and realize that no matter what threats Christianity has faced over the past 2000 years, it will remain. Christ himself said in the Scriptures, the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church! That is why atheistic communism couldn't stamp out the Orthodox Church in Russia, and can't stamp out Christianity anywhere else in the world. God bless Eastern Orthodoxy, the one true holy catholic and apostolic Church!
@choosing2lookeast All these religions, ie christianity and islam and juadism are idiotic sand monkey religion religions exported to the west to control peasants...get out of russia you sand monkies
Thank God for the victory of Orthodoxy! Please see my Orthodox video promotions on youtbue under marykfilms.
marykfilms 3 weeks ago
To JonathanTheAlchemist, what you're stating in your conversation with TheOrthodoxSteven illustrates the problem that TOS is pointing out in today's atheists. You are hopelessly trying to create a false dichotomy of 'science vs theism' by reducing the rational theistic and philosophical understanding of God to the level of materialism. As long as you keep maintaining this misdirected notion, you are not aware of what you are rejecting. Or how to properly reject it.
ArteDeLaNoche 1 month ago
The Russians learned their lesson...America has not. Foolish leaders have seen to it to try and exponge the 'new world' of their 'ignorance' and 'backward' ideas.
novokarpati 1 month ago
The atheists murdered approximately fifty million of them, destroyed their churches and monasteries, imprisoned and tortured their bishops and priests, and lied to and abused their children, but they could not take their Faith! The history of Russia in the 20th is one that reveals the absolute barbarism, fury, immorality, and ultimate impotence and futility of atheism and the endurance, the inspiration, the hope, the life, and the truth of the Christian faith.
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
So much for the argument of atheists that only reason folks are religious is because of indoctrination ;-). After almost 100 years of being brainwashed from early childhood for atheism and against God, it's "MIRACULOUS" that Christianity is on such a powerful rise in Russia and atheism has been reduced to a small band of a few men meeting in one room !
1integrity 2 months ago 2
There was once a form of atheism that was worth engaging and against which one could have a rigorous exchange, and that was the atheism of Nietzsche and his heirs the existentialists of the 20th century. At least they knew what they were rejecting and took seriously the full implications of rejecting it. Modern atheists, epitomized by Dawkins and the now late Hitchens, are neither morally nor intellectually serious and have no clue what they're rejecting, much less what they're embracing.
TheOrthodoxSteven 2 months ago 8
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-"...have no clue what they're rejecting..."-
A belief system with no evidence behind it?
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@JonathanTheAlchemist Perfect! I just love when I make a point and then someone shows up to demonstrate and being a living example of that point. Brilliant.
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
Perfect! I just love it when Christians refuse to answer a statement!
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@JonathanTheAlchemist I answered your statement. If what you mean is that I failed to answer some point you made then I'm afraid you'll have to refresh me on what that point was. You simply asked a rhetorical (and petulant) question. Am I supposed to take that seriously or attempt to ascribe some meaning to such a meaningless utterance?
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-"Am I supposed to take that seriously..."-
That is, if you take anything seriously. Do you have any evidence for God's existence?
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@JonathanTheAlchemist Well, to begin with I reject the position of logical positivists and extreme empiricists who claim the only truth we can know is what can be demonstrated (or falsified) in empirical terms. This is a fallacious epistemology which cannot even justify itself. But yes, there are numerous quite sound arguments for the existence of God. As with other metaphysical beliefs, however, following Alvin Plantinga, I regard belief in God as a properly basic belief.
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-"...only truth we can know is what can be demonstrated (or falsified) in empirical terms."-
I don't see scientists and their brethren using "faith" in their works. It seems as if evidence based research has been the most successful form of research so far. Is that why it is a more popular way of finding truth as opposed to faith? Probably so.
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@JonathanTheAlchemist This has been an interesting exchange, but its clear to me that, like most atheists I've encountered, you want to stay very near the surface of these issues where obfuscation can abound and false arguments can pass for good ones. The fact is, however, that the sort of radical empiricism and logical positivism (which is a dogma of the "new atheism") cannot even be used to justify itself, let alone the proposition that there is no god.
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-",,, let alone the proposition that there is no god."-
That's a strawman, I never said "there is no God." That would be Penn Jilette.
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-"...say, the polytheism of Hinduism..."-
That has nothing to do with what I argued. You said the following: "it is likewise a basic ... belief of humanity to believe in a God" (see, below.) I brought polytheism since raises questions regarding the aforementioned argument. If belief in a God (presumably, the Christian one), is so essential to mankind, why do polytheistic religions exist?
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheOrthodoxSteven
(Contd.) Monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Zoroastrianism arrived late in history, why? I'm not convinced that belief in a God is so intrinsic to mankind. Asking questions is, though. This probably gave rise to religion and continues to do so.
-"...you want to stay very near the surface of these issues..."-
I have yet to see the evidence I've asked for.
-"...false arguments can pass for good ones."-
Such as what? The argument from beauty/complexity?
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@JonathanTheAlchemist So, just as it is "properly basic" for us to believe in the existence of minds other than our own, it is likewise a basic, essential and intuitive belief of humanity to believe in a God. And the truth, of course, is that of all metaphysical pictures of the universe the materialist view is the most rationally incoherent and the one that requires the greatest pure leap of faith, as it cannot be reduced to first principles that hold together.
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-"... intuitive belief of humanity to believe in a God."-
Where's your evidence of this? Millions of peoples lived around the world for thousands without monotheism. You, by default, do not accept the existence of any of these deities. Who knows? Maybe it is you probably doesn't know what he/she is denying. I'd appreciate solid evidence for the existence of the biblical God.
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
@JonathanTheAlchemist It really is difficult to have this sort of conversation with someone who simply isn't equipped with the requisite philosophical and theological grammar, if you will, to discuss these issues. In any event, the difference between, say, the polytheism of Hinduism and the monotheism of Christianity is theological, not philosophical. We both embrace the reality of a supernatural dimension and deny the silly and useless musings of strict materialists.
TheOrthodoxSteven 1 month ago
@TheOrthodoxSteven
-"...requisite philosophical and theological grammar..."-
Since this video is about communism, let us use that as an illustration of your logic. Should I not dismiss Marxism because I do not have college level knowledge of the labor theory of value as well as the contributions of individual Marxists? Absolutely not.
-"We both embrace the reality of a supernatural dimension...."-
May I ask what sort of evidence you have to back this claim up?
JonathanTheAlchemist 1 month ago
I am Syriac and I love my Russian brother. One Orthodox church is the culture and history in many lands. Even when the Soviets were in power they mirrored the Eastern Orthodox rites with their own Icons and processions
JohnTheHutDweller 2 months ago
not St. Xavier's - Christ the SAVIOR Cathedral! :-)
ptichkalix 2 months ago
Comment removed
davidpwithun 2 months ago
@ptichkalix I was about to say, Xavier is the anglicanized version of Javier, a Spanish name. It would be strange (or impossible) for an Orthodox cathedral to be named after a Roman Catholic Saint, St. Francis Xavier! Now, if it were a Greek cathedral, I wouldn't be so surprised...just kidding.
AbidingDood 2 months ago
@AbidingDood: Do you mean the that the Greeks would "accept" a RC saint and you wouldn't be surprised? Are you nuts? This is slander! Who taught you this? If you are Russian all the worse, because we Greeks respect you and think of you as brothers! Shame! I hope you are fasting these days!
amalialovesicecream 2 months ago in playlist Philosophy
@amalialovesicecream This is why I shouldn't joke on the internet. I am Catholic, and Greek bishops are stereotyped as Catholic-friendly and liberal (many are, many more are not), especially when compared to the Russians. It was only a joke, I apologize for the offense.
AbidingDood 2 months ago
The Atheist Soviet killed 23 millions of us
asebrookb 3 months ago
@asebrookb
That's right. And add the millions in China, Eastern Europe and Cambodia. Not a very enlightened record.
Antlers68 2 months ago
Russia official religion is Orthodox
Neizvestnyu 3 months ago
@Neizvestnyu And for that I'll say God bless Russia every time. I'll say it during the mornings, noons, the evenings and at night. GOD BLESS RUSSIA. I'll pick Russia over the U.S.A. ANY DAY. Thank God for Russia! Thank God for Putin! And thank God for the glory that will rise for this re-born Mother Land! The Tsars would be proud!
MontChevalier 3 months ago
@MontChevalier Thank you
Neizvestnyu 3 months ago
Cathedral of Christ the Saviour is not actually the biggest Orthodox Cathedral in the world, maybe the biggest in Russia... Saint Sava is the biggest...
Loiginer 4 months ago
The Soviets were completely right in doing so. Religion is a poison best left abandoned.
Nikolai7575 8 months ago
@Nikolai7575 Orthodox Christianity is not religion. It is truth and life. When it devolves into simply religion then it is just another random idea competing with other random ideas. Authentic Orthodox Christianity however, is not that. Be very careful agreeing with the Soviets - the casual murder of millions of people is a direct result of the meaninglessness of that kind of existence. If people are just another bit of slime growing in the universe then they don't matter at all.
scottm124 5 months ago
@Nikolai7575 Orthodox Christianity is not religion. It is truth and life. When it devolves into simply religion then it is just another random idea competing with other random ideas. Authentic Orthodox Christianity however, is not that. Be very careful agreeing with the Soviets - the casual murder of millions of people is a direct result of the meaninglessness of that kind of existence. If people are just another bit of slime growing in the universe then they don't matter at all.
scottm124 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Nikolai7575 Orthodox Christianity is not religion. It is truth and life. When it devolves into simply religion then it is just another random idea competing with other random ideas. Authentic Orthodox Christianity however, is not that. Be very careful agreeing with the Soviets - the casual murder of millions of people is a direct result of the meaninglessness of that kind of existence. If people are just another bit of slime growing in the universe then they don't matter at all.
scottm124 5 months ago
A tad biased, isn't it? You can tell the reporter sees Orthodoxy as a generic religion ; as something psychological that fulfills some biological need in the human brain. Look at how shocked and disappointed he is at the state of atheism! It is no surprise that the atheists are so bland, and boring, and dull. When you reject the Life in the Church, you in turn embrace death and nihilism. How sad for them.
scottm124 9 months ago
@scottm124 I'm perfectly happy as an atheist. It's a wonderful thing 2 me. To be able to make your own decisions about who and what u want 2 be, it's so liberating.
Gahuki44 5 months ago
@Gahuki44 I'm sure it does. It always seems that way, doesn't it? And yet you will have no purpose or meaning other than just being another bit of a random universe (the formation of which is itself taken on faith), and when you inevitably die you will be no more. You just vanish. How very comforting indeed!
scottm124 5 months ago
@scottm124 I have plenty of meaning & purpose. I have decided that I am here 2 try & make the world better. I will live on in my actions & in the hearts of those I touch. I try 2 b the best person I can & it shows. Since I believe that there is no afterlife I enjoy the time I spend w/ those I love so much more since they might not b here 2morrow. I wish u the best life has 2 offer. May u get all the Peace & Happiness u deserve.
Gahuki44 5 months ago
@Gahuki44 And you as well. I do wish you would reconsider however. If you ever would like to know more intellectually I can recommend a few resources. Google 'prince vladimir and orthodoxy' to see the story of how Russia became Orthodox. In that spirit I invite you attend and Orthodox Liturgy so that you too mkay not know whether you are in heaven or on earth!
scottm124 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Gahuki44 And you as well. I do wish you would reconsider however. If you ever would like to know more intellectually I can recommend a few resources. Google 'prince vladimir and orthodoxy' to see the story of how Russia became Orthodox. In that spirit I invite you attend and Orthodox Liturgy so that you too mkay not know whether you are in heaven or on earth!
scottm124 5 months ago
It's important for the world to know and realize that no matter what threats Christianity has faced over the past 2000 years, it will remain. Christ himself said in the Scriptures, the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church! That is why atheistic communism couldn't stamp out the Orthodox Church in Russia, and can't stamp out Christianity anywhere else in the world. God bless Eastern Orthodoxy, the one true holy catholic and apostolic Church!
choosing2lookeast 9 months ago
@choosing2lookeast All these religions, ie christianity and islam and juadism are idiotic sand monkey religion religions exported to the west to control peasants...get out of russia you sand monkies
martydrooo 8 months ago
Comment removed
choosing2lookeast 9 months ago
In another fifty years, will most of the population be Muslim?
Chuck1863 9 months ago