Bob Barr on Abortion & FLDS Raid

[MrAbolitionist]

I really don't like it when people lump prenatal child dismemberment with polygamy.

[THEBURNINGTIGERS]

@MrAbolitionist So you care for a fetus but not actual lving children forced into child marraiges.

[MrAbolitionist]

@THEBURNINGTIGERS I meant voluntary polygamy, not coerced marriages of any kind.

[stopCPSabuse]

cheers to barr!! abortion is MURDER i don't care what anyone thinks do the damn research watch "the silent scream" then tell me it's ok! people are crazy, and libertarians suck ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!

[chwparker]

I am so glad to see that he is against abortion. The only reason I would still vote for McCain is b/c he stands the best chance against Obama who is just too dangerous, but if McCain chooses Liberman as his VP, I'm supporting this guy.

[Spazeman85]

Isn't the government supposed to protect life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? Obviously, this includes the lives of innocent, unborn children. The only gray area is an issue of abortion to protect the mother's life. And yes, women should have the right to decide whether or not to have a child... but before that child has been created. Anyway, interesting to see where Bob Barr stands on this... it wasn't mentioned on his web site.

[chwparker]

Same here, I couldn't find it on his website, so I had to check here. But there are so many other alternatives out there to abortion (ie protection, adoption, and what you said) plus I also believe that it is murder.

[DoctorMurky]

That's it. I'm voting for McCain. McCain will, at least, leave the abortion issue up to the states.

[TexanCyclist]

Giving the government power to force women to bear children @ Fed or State level is still giving the government power to decide personal issues best left to women & their doctors. You allow the gov to decide 1 personal issue, why not 2?

I repeat: it is a personal issue. Unique to each woman. Who are you to make a blanket statement on all abortions?

Bob Barr is not a classic Libertarian, he is a conservative. I've had my fill of conservatives. They claim freedom, except in the case of...

[Magicguy17]

so what you are saying is that your pro "choice." So we should legalize murder then? don't get me wrong I don't like republicans or Bob Barr ether. but the question still stands: should we legalize murder?

[TexanCyclist]

We should leave ALL health issues where they belong: In private between a woman and her doctor. Not your business or mine.

[Magicguy15]

Your right we should, I'm only ok with an abortion if it is necessary to save the life of the mother. let me put it this way. If a woman has a 5 year old and decides that she doesn't want him any more so she kills him is that murder? you bet it is! what if he was 5 months then would that be murder? Yes. what if she kills him 5 minutes after he was born is that murder? Yes. what about 5 minutes before he was born is that murder? If that is not murder then why in 10 minutes does it become murder?

[Magicguy17]

sorry for the different user name my brother was logged on and I did not know it so the above comment is mine just under my brothers user name.

[TexanCyclist]

You pose a bunch of theoretical acts to lend weight to one. As Spock would say, not a logical progression. You argue best case, life is usually worst case. Hard decisions, real life, in real time with no need of your opinions or mine, clogging up the process & insisting in intruding with rose colored glasses demanding inclusion in a personal & private MEDICAL decision.

[Magicguy17]

answer these questions 1 Should we legalize murder? 2 why isn't abortion murder? before you answer the second one think about this if it becomes a life later after it leaves the body of the woman than 2 seconds before that why is it not a life? what about 3? 4? 5? 6? you see where I'm going with this?

[TexanCyclist]

Look, you will never have to make this decision for yourself. All you have to do is keep it in your pants. If a woman has to deal with this issue she should have unfettered access to the best medical help & afforded the privacy required.

[Magicguy17]

I think you have misunderstood me. I think that 1 abortion is murder period. 2 the only time that it might be preformed would be to save the life of the mother (killing in self defense). so the only time she should have to deal with this issue should be if the baby is killing her. the only way that she could have privacy is to get the government back to what it was created to do which is to protect the rights the people that includes the right to life.

[TexanCyclist]

You have the right to believe whatever you want. You have no right to intervene in the medical decisions a woman may need to make. To cloak your desires to control a womans decision under guise of condemning murder is a farce. Until the late 50s the death of a nursing child by its mother was considered a medical malfeasance not a criminal act. To be dealt with compassionately. Or is that beyond your capacity?

[Magicguy15]

If it is not murder then what is it? if it becomes a life later why isn't it a life now? Did you know that if some one kills a pregnant woman then the murder is tried for TWO lives not just one? if it is just a medical procedure the what does it involve: taking the life of an unborne child(murder). Do you think babies have the right to life?

[chwparker]

I totally agree with you.

[chwparker]

This isn't simply an issue of intervening in a woman's private medical decision. Should a woman decide that, after she has had her baby, she is unfit to be a mother and kill her child as a result? There are so many alternatives, such as several forms of protection and adoption, that we really don't need to murder infants.

[reddjames79]

It is not murdering an infant, you're using sensationalism to invoke emotion and make a rash decision. Adoption? If people did adopt we wouldn't have children needing adoption through DHS. AND if people using their sensationalism for calling someone a murderer would use their energies to make sure our $1 billion dollar budget didn't go for abstinence only programs and taught about condoms we wouldn't have an abortion issue as big as we do in the first place! Time to use brains folks!

[chwparker]

It's not about sensationalism. I'm sorry if you dont see it as murder, but it is. And I also agree that we need to teach people about alternatives besides abstinence, and suppor that.

[reddjames79]

Let's say your mother has had something very bad happen to her and she's only surviving through life support on a machine. By your own definition, pulling the plug (which is perfectly legal and your decision) makes you a murderer. Science rules that life is still there. That decision is left up to the family, which is why abortion is also legal. Over turning Roe vs. Wade effects more than abortion, politicians count on ignorance to gain more power, unfortunately they're getting it.

[chwparker]

In that situation, she can at least decide for herself whether or not she wants to. And if she can't, it's because she's brain dead. Just about every adult I've known has made it well known that they would want the plug pulled if they were brain dead, so at least they have a chance to make their own decision. In abortion, the child doesn't even have a chance. Plus you cite ignorance, but look at how many other options there are. You would have to be ignorant to not know about those.

[reddjames79]

If she has the baby then who is going to take care of the baby? The government? Nope, government wants to end medicaid. They're concerned with a person while in the womb, once born they don't care what happens. It's insanity! The person on life support isn't able to choose because they're on life support! The family makes that decision. You can't rule murder/life in one category and not in the other through the same argument. Within law this is discrimination.

[nonrepublicrat]

very very seldom does anyone need to make a decision about abortion based on any medical considerations. it is more a question of whether or not you are wish to put your own convenience ahead of a child's life. abortions are NOT medical proceedures, and those who perform abortions are NOT providing a medical serve. medicine is saving lives, not taking them. i am all for individual rights and freedom of choice, but not when you take the life of another being with the same rights as you have.

[reddjames79]

That information is not clear. Studies state that 3% of abortion is due to rape or incest. However that's only half of the story. Over 191,000 rapes were reported in 2005, that's roughly only 16% of actual rape. Rapist only serve 3-5 years for their crimes leaving the victim vulnerable. I wish all women could report but until the system works for them, they have to make the decision themselves. If thats only a portion of the rapes reported, 3% is only the a portion of rape involved abortions.

[fleisch09]

I like that, it kind of reminds me about what Ron Paul said. Anyways, I happen to be a pro-life libertarian, and he is right, there are alot of Pro-Life Libertarians, there always have been. You don't have to agree 100% of a party platform. I'm a libertarian, not a Libertarian

[Magicguy17]

actually the party is divided on abortion 1/3 are right and say that it should be illegal 1/3 are almost right and say that there is a point in the pregnancy where it becomes a life (the problem is if you admit that it becomes a life then why isn't it a life 5 seconds before that point? 10 seconds 15 etc etc) 1/3 then say that it is okay and try to cover up murder with the "right to choose" those people need to think about it like this "would it have been ok for your mom to abort you?"

[stopCPSabuse]

BALLS!

if it's not a baby you're not pregnant! they need to think of that and watch the videos where the baby runs from the abortion tool.

[nonrepublicrat]

it is NOT a "health issue". that's beyond ridiculous. it is a baby not a bacteria or a virus.

[TexanCyclist]

90% of all conceptions are spontaneously aborted before implantation. 50% of implanted fetus' spontaneously abort. 25% of pregnancies result in stillbirths.

Artificial conception: Pregnancy from embryonic transplants has a success rate of less than 9% At least 6 embryos are introduced into a uterus in order to hopefully implant one. That one is then subject to the above mentioned #'s.

So, if life begins @ conception, who is murdering all these "babies?"

[reddjames79]

Science has said that life begins at conception and the religious right is using this scientific data in order to push more legislature. Science also says that a "miscarriage" is a spontaneous abortion, meaning a woman's mind makes the decision to abort the fetus due to unfit circumstances. Making it illegal will legislate between a woman's choice to see her pregnancy as unfit in current circumstance. Which is why it was ruled unconstitutional in the first place.

[TexanCyclist]

ftw fuck the war?

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Why aren't libertarians pro-life? It doesn't make sense. We always talk about the 2 natural laws and freedom. Freedom being, you can do whatever you want to yourself and your property, but you can't hurt others. yet we support abortion as a right! That's hurting someone else. That's killing someone else. That's not freedom. Taking away ones life. How can we want freedom if the basic right to live is not protected? Pro-life is freedom. The right to live!

[devourage]

In practice, you'd have to be a pretty moderate libertarian to be pro-life. The only way to stop people from getting abortions is intervention in markets, schools or the lives of citizens.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

People see me as hypocritical when I say I'm pro-life but yet I'm a libertarian who stands for freedom. But I have a good reason. Libertarians believe in the 2 natural laws which are the basis for freedom. Do whatever you want to yourself and your property, as long as you don't hurt others. And abortion is hurting another. it's killing another person. A separate human being, with a separate body and DNA. How can we fight for freedom and rights if we don't even have the basic right to live?

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

Ron Paul was pro-life. Did you ever listen to him speak? He makes some great points. He's delivered over 4 thousand babies. And if he hurts any unborn child at all, he can get in serious trouble. So why is abortion legal? I'm definitely not a moderate libertarian. I'm a very very limited government libertarian. And like Ron Paul, I believe there can't be an abortion police, that's fascist. And there is no perfect solution to stopping it all. There will be back ally abortions...

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont2)

And other stuff as well. But we can't just make it legal for someone to kill a human being. If they get caught, then I think the doctor should get in trouble the most for actually performing the abortion. but maybe the mother too a little. It's tricky, but why do we make it a "right" to brutally end the life of another person. They don't have the basic right to live, yet we want all these other rights? That's ridiculous. Abortion is just eugenics. Same thing Hitler used.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont3)

You have the right to have sex, use protection or not, or just wait until you're ready, or not have sex at all not wanting to risk pregnancy. You have the right to keep the child, or give it up for adoption, or rely on friends and family and church's, etc to help you care for the baby, but you can't just murder another human being. That's not freedom. That's the opposite of freedom. And it goes against libertarian views of not hurting others. I'm not a hypocrite or a moderate.

[devourage]

I never called you a hypocrite. There's nothing wrong with personally being against abortion, but to make it illegal would increase the size of government. There's no way around that. If abortions were illegal, there would be no official abortion doctors. With no official doctors, there would need to be a huge bureaucracy to determine who was performing abortions and who wasn't. That means bigger government.

And Ron Paul was much more of a classic conservative than a libertarian.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

So just because Ron Paul doesn't support legalizing abortion, he's not a libertarian? That's not a very good reason to say someones not a libertarian. He and I have good reasons for supporting what we do. It won't increase government, but it's their job to keep or punish one who hurt another. That is a legitimate government job. Like I said, there can't be an abortion police. But to let abortionists be in business, killing innocent human beings? That's not a right.

[devourage]

Ron Paul said many times that he was a republican. Ron Paul was better than most candidates, but he didn't support true freedom. He believed what most "classic republicans" do. He thought that it was wrong for the federal government to interfere in people's lives. I agree completely. However, he thinks it's just fine if the state governments impose themselves on people, as long as it's voted on. I say no. I say freedom comes before any vote.

[devourage]

The only thing so-called state's rights do is move the coercive tool of the government from the federal to the state level. The states should not decide who gets your money, or what you can put in your body. No one should decide that but the individual. Secondly, why does Ron Paul support Chuck Baldwin? Baldwin's economic plans are ridiculous. He wants to impose tariffs to help the economy. What kind of marketeer would support someone with such ideas? Especially with this economy.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Well I don't support Chuck Baldwin, and yeah, that does sound ridiculous. And I totally agree with you here. Totally 100%. I have the same feelings towards state power. Libertarians in general support state power instead of Federal. Well obviously, I don't want a big federal government, but what's the point of having a good federal government that respects freedom if the states don't and they're basically fascist? That's not freedom and that's pretty stupid.

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

(cont)

There is really no point in that. Because the states are just as corrupt as the Federal Government, so what makes things any better if we cut back Federal Government? It's silly. It's kinda stupid and I always question that. I've never supported states rights. They can take away our rights and run minorities lives just like that. That's not freedom. So yes, I agree with you.

[NorthMass]

bob barr ftw

[shanklinmike]

watch?v=SzTozC3PCF4

watch?v=V-4kCD4nbrw

Please help me spread liberty, not big govt, war, taxes, loss of civil liberties......

[pejmul10]

I do not believe in abortion, unless the mother's life may be in danger for some reason. It is murder. Answer me this, if a child is born at 6 months, its early but it is called a baby,why isnt it when its still in the womb? Its not done developing at that age, is it?

[KaneFenton4Freedom]

Pejmul10: Good point. Agreed. I'm a pro-life libertarian myself. I believe that everyone has the right to run their lives however they want. Freedom is doing whatever you want to yourself AS LONG AS you don't hurt others. Hurting others is not freedom it's not a right. And the fact is, that fetus isn't you! You're hurting someone else. You're KILLING someone else. I too believe abortions should be allowed though, only when it will hurt or kill the mother, fetus or both. That'd be fine.

[chwparker]

good point

[WizardKing78]

My jury is still out as to whether abortion= murder. Having said that, if a woman has the right to an abortion, a man should also have the right to walk-away from the financial burden of children.

[nonrepublicrat]

great point! never heard that one before, but it makes a lot of sense. people who just think of their own selfish "right" to do anything they want, without any regard to their responsibilites, or the rights of others, totally piss me off !! this twisted concept of liberty harms the freedom movement.

[reddjames79]

Their own "selfish right". I'm so glad that politicians have turned your neighbor into your enemy, promoting the image of looking down on your neighbor and showing them as a murderer while they continue to kill men and women through War on Drugs, Iraq War, and so called War on Poverty which sends people to wait to die in an emergency room for 12-15 hours for medical care. You're proof they're doing a wonderful job.