Game Geeks #72 HARP: High Adventure Role Playing

[DeIdeal]

Pfft, I'm interested when you have to use calculus in RPGs.

[isaacthefoli]

My group cant do 17+4 let alone 72+104-27

[EltonJThe]

Kurt, if you don't like math, you have no business being an engineer.

[pspboy7]

Rolling and adding dice is the fun part for me... I do agree that juggling math can be tedious though. It's more the rules that bother me, rather than the actual rolling of dice.

[CaramelDancen]

"small person" XD

[Kunstdesfechtens]

Great review. I'm a long time RM player, so the math would be no big deal for me. I have no problem with calculators either. The thing is, with Rolemaster (and therefore HARP), the system REALLY colours the game. And that's cool if you're OK with that. Part of the fun of playing Rolemaster IS the way it colours the setting. HARP is the same way (although less so). It all depends on what you're after. :)

[Nakasi100]

You're an engineer and you can't do this math? I know an eighth grader who can play this game, math and all, fine Kurt. This isn't as bad as your dnd 4th edition, which you just drank the kool-aid of the 3.5 fanboys, but this is pretty crappy. Writing off an awesome game because Kurt can't do simple subtraction and addition

[NASDAQRaider]

Solar calculator? Seriously? When did the guy make this video? Was it digitally encoded from a VHS tape he made back in the 80s?

I hate to break it to you pal, but it's the 21st century now...

[cheesegraterslaves]

lacking (abnormally) in the arithmetic department is a poor excuse for saying youre not going to play a game thats not dnd.

Adding and subtracting should not be a challenge to most normal human beings, you say you like 95% but you still go on and on about how the math is a problem for you, and you say youre an engineer, how did you get your degree? Im an artist and soon to be social scientist, Ive never ever experienced the math in this game as a problem, and neither did my art college mates

[wotanson1]

I'm a RoleMaster player and as far as not playing HARP because of the maths? Generally unless you roll a "5" or lower, a "66" a "100" or "96" and above if you don't get close to "117" it's, eh I missed there. It's not that hard and noting beats an E crit.

[verbosity53531]

I'm a Rolemaster fan, so HARP is a little bland for my table. No legend - having a combination of hits and criticals that and be delved ensure that combats are the same hit-roll damage cycle.

For your d20 desire - why not apply the drunkards rule with divide by 5 permanently. So a +23 skill would be +5 on a d20. Sure, base levels still need to be percentages (so +1 per skill level means 5 levels per mod in d20), but it fixes the only major problem you seem to mention.

[ansree]

Great system. Really enjoyed it when we gamed. The maths are not really a problem. Quickly done, never hindered the "feel" and the crits are just fun. I really like how the have slimmed down Rolemaster.

[pspboy7]

Sounds a lot like MERP, but then MERP was a game by, you guessed it, Iron Crown Enterprises!

[Aparashi]

I was in a group that tried this, and it was a disaster. Kurt you're dead on in saying that the game seems well designed on the surface, and has a lot going for it...but when you actually play it, the math makes everything absolutely awful.

[BlackRazor54]

From what I remember, no attacks of opportunity acm4bass.

I liked HARP, to shorten math we always had the player attacking subtract his mods & opp/Defense's before he rolled and added, it never took that long, besides-most combats ended in 2-4 rolls anyhow from the critical charts.

[nutherefurlong]

Percentile games are sometimes problematic. I liked what the old Buck Rogers TSR game did, which was have the difficulty of a roll affect the percent roll. Easy would be roll under X2 your skill, normal is roll under, hard is roll under half your skill, impossible is X4 or soemthing. Much easier than adding up a bunch.

Although there's something to be said for peer-pressured mental exercise :)

[socialized]

Spot on review, it reflects my experience with HARP. The math has the potential to completely kill the game flow. Some people just aren't that good with adding and subtracting double (or even triple) digits, and really, it just takes one person who is weak with calculating numbers to slow the game down. Like EliteOM3G4 said: if the math takes more than just a few seconds, it's going to take its toll on the game.

I really really tried to like HARP, but it's the math that ruined it for us.

[kigunonomiko84]

Man, I wish I could find some serious roll players. I have all of these awesome scenarios set up, but my friends never leave the village or tavern. They love their dialogues too much.

[JayDugger]

Kurt, no offense, but plenty of speed arithmetic systems exist. Trachtenberg, chisanbop, and good old-fashioned practice. I'd like to see you review Traveller, Hero System, or Attack Vector: Tactical if you find HARP's math intimidating.

[VetleRB]

wheres battle for middle earth?

[bullsger]

Our roleplaying group don't have problems with the math. No break of the game flow.

Nice review.

[kigunonomiko84]

Neither does mine, and if there ever do exist any problems with the math they learn quickly. Even when it was a problem, I just had them roll their outcomes at the same time so they would be ready with the results when it was their turn.

[EliteOM3G4]

I see what you mean, math that takes more than 4 seconds can really break the flow of a game

[acm4bass]

If its in league with DnD , how do thier combat sessions compare? Attacks of oppurtunity? or is it more 2nd ed. than that?

[kaosdevice]

Check out some Runequest.

[treebeard404]

I love this game and recently started a new campaign. Couple of extra things to check out: For those that love MERP - check out HARPer's Bazaar #11/12 on the the ICE site - it introduces an optional combat system very similar to MERP and IMO is much better. There is a free version of HARP (HARPLite) on their site. There is also some info on d20'ifying HARP on their forums. Overall this is currently my favorite RPG system (although I built an massive GM app to deal with all the numbers/tracking).

[jfridy]

Ah, ROLL Master. One guy in our group used to play that regularly. They actually rotated a player who's only job for a session was to check the charts.

[vergeofchaos]

Kurt... LOVE your reviews- you totally rule... BUT.. Atkins. Seriously.

[steffanralphdelpiano]

Kurt, where's your store?

[psiseferepies]

LOL Rolemaster.Kurt you are great.I've been playing MERP and I remember the maths were a complete night mare. But I still use those AMAZING critical in d 20 and I must tell you it rocks \M/. I couldn't agree more about the logistics

[vinkeveen2]

Great review. keep em comming.

Question are you doing WOD:  Hunter??

peace. a fan

[ConayR]

For me HARP is the new MERP. MERP I loved and grew up playing. I'm in love with HARP but unfortunately it feels too oldschool for most players. I know a bunch of ppl who can do math required by HARP just-like-that (myself included) but unfortunately we are 5k miles apart. :/

Another great review, thanks a lot guys! :]

[ManaJunkie]

Thanx Kurt. I've been wondering about this game myself and now that you've give it a good 95% than I know its worth it.

[X0oMALKAVo0X]

Another nice review, but I'm wondering;

In a big party fight, does the math stay the same during the fight.. Or do you do that every combat round? ( you prolly do if the enemy changes weapons, or if you change enemy.. etc. )

Wouldn't be my kind of picknick either..

[natewheatshelf]

Yeah, it takes me around ten seconds to do X+X+X in my head and around 30 to do X+X-X. I can see where that could really slow down a session over the course of a hundred different checks.

[daikage]

You have pretty much sold me on this one. Other than the math, which I am very much not good with, I think this sounded fun.

Out of curiosity, you mentioned the on-the-fly magic in the supplement. Could you give some examples of other games with what you feel are good on-the-fly magic systems. That's kind of a recent thing for me, so I would be greatly interested in what you think are other good games that do it.

[vidbomb]

95% is good enough. I just ordered 5 key books from nobleknight.

[rockjock3]

hmmm... haven't really been into many ICE products, may take a look into this one. Nice review as always.

Also I wonder what your take would be on Call of Cthulhu Nocturnum campaign book by Fantasy Flight Games?

[lordmonfort]

I found the core rulebook at a used book store and tried it out....I thought the math would be a problem, but it really didnt slow the game down that much.

Being that it was made be I.C.E.; I we used parts of the old MERP to expand on human races and what not...

Now that D&D has become more of a tabletop MMORPG, I definitately recommend HARP. We ran 4 game sessions with it and had alot of fun...it has a very 'old school' feel to it.