The lady at the end of this video seems to be arguing that giving birth is some sort of disease that needs to be cured. To imply that the Catholic Church is prohibiting the use or availability of condoms in Africa is RIDICULOUS. The Catholic Church, again, does not force anyone to do anything. I have been a Catholic all my life the Church has never forced me to do anything, never, ever. These people do not want the Church to have the religious liberty to believe and preach what they do.
@thursday2217 If the catholic church does not force anyone to do anything, how come it tells people that using condoms is evil and will make them end up in hell?
I'm sorry, but you need to look at the policies of the catholic church before telling us that all it's policies are absolutely correct.
@graypatrick99 My oh my, where do I begin. One, you are misinformed about the Church teaching on sex and contraceptives. Two, promoting what the Church asserts is truth is not forcing anyone to do or believe anything. What don't you get about that. Three, the Church does not have the power to send anyone to Hell. Four, I never said all the Church's policies are absolutely correct. Five, Hitchens and Fry are not only mistaken but are purposefully so.
@graypatrick99 The Church does not force anyone to do anything. She is the means which we receive the graces we need to have eternal life. BUT not you or I are forced to do anything. With our free will we do what we do. If you are not a Christian, I supposed that you don't believe that there is hell. Then you have nothing to worry about. You can pretty much do whatever it is that you want to do. And good luck.
@thursday2217 please understand that giving birth is DEADLY. less than 100 years ago more than 25% of women died during childbirth. Many women living in Africa lack access to the modern medical care that has reduced this statistic. Simple contraceptives, (that are "sinful" in the church's eyes,) be they condoms or any other form, save lives. Also, a number of these women are raped, by gangs or by the military/para military/police...they do not choose to have intercourse.
@thursday2217 oh and aside from the dangers of childbirth, there is also the problem with HIV/AIDS. (btw for a reference most of my family are obstetricians)
the archbishop cant see how the condom issue is not a force for good from the catholic church even at the end of the debate. how sad that this man leads people. he clearly wasnt there for half or more of the debate!
What matters is an honest pursuit of the truth which I argue Hitchens , not the Church,would have us abandon. He could not abide a truth that pointed to a being greater than himself and his own intellect. And why should we be persuaded by him when he is by his own admission, just a trousered ape.
The Church's mistakes prove that man is capable of atrocities It speaks to the nature of humanity and not the inhumanity of the Church. Belief systems whether based on a belief in the God, a spaghetti god or no God can be used by its adherents for good or evil.
The Church is made up of people; sinners, scoundrels and perverts among them. The Church and its advocates have also been victims of persecution by both secular and other religious forces.
I cannot imagine the world as a better place to live in without Christianity or the Catholic Church for that matter. I am still not convinced of the arguments of the anti-catholic people. The only reason I can think of why they are antagonistic to the Church is that its teachings are an inconvenience truth to them that's why they demonize it. They don't get it. Yes, Christians are hypocrites and it's that hypocrisy that gives the Church its credibility.
The Catholic Bishop said that the Church is not perfect!? According to Catholic teaching the Church, as a whole, IS perfect! "Credo... et unam, sanctam, cathólicam et apostólicam Ecclésiam" Nicene Creed. So, the Bishop, according to very basic doctrine, is a HERETIC. Anathema!!! ;)) But of course, when one tries to wiggle out of direct questions, one might get confused. And how on earth could he imagine to win a debate against Hitchens and Fry? He must really believe in miracles!?! :))
@einnaecarg Dammed Jesuits! This shows how sly they can be! Wrong catechism! Treacherous priests! 12 years with them! And theology and philosophy... and I had been taught wrong, all the time! But probably it is my fault. More likely I did not understand.
But then, is it not also the fault of the teacher? ;)))))
Thank you for you reply. Jokes apart, I shall think about it.
@000dodo000 Yes, it was probably the fault of the teacher or you. But again, the fault of the teacher or the student for that matter is not necessarily the fault of the Church. That's where Hitchens has difficulty in comprehending.
@einnaecarg Sorry, my reply was a bit patronizing. But I am actually interested in your reply. Why do you think I was taught wrong? I cited the Nicene Creed and the same goes for 2 councils. Most of Christian denominations accept it. Some disagree with the "trinitarian" bit. But all, i believe, accept that the/their Church is perfect and saint as a whole. Is it not so? And this more so applies to the Catholic church and it has been reaffirmed by the Pope, or not? so too for the Orthodox, CoE, L.
@000dodo000 Okay... I found your original comment. You said that the Church claims that she is perfect. And you cited NIcene Creed as a proof. Where is PERFECT in the " I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church." ? Is this part of the so called "enlightenment"? People don't know the meaning of words anymore. I thought the enlightenment makes someone wiser.
I do not find the arguments of Fry and Hitchens very compelling nor are they intellectually honest. To reduce the teaching of the Catholic Church to the petulant ramblings of these two angry atheists is obscene. They claim a great oppression by the Catholic Church on them. Why? The church does not force anyone to do anything. Love? Didn't hear any from the two atheists did hear it from the two representing the church.
@lexalulu997 Oh, how interesting. I thought exactly the same of the panel defending the proposition, I found the Archbishop to be most intellectually dishonest and rather ignorant in theology, as in the end, when he said that the Church is not perfect. What for theNicene Creed? The Church, in its whole is Saint! In the 17th c. he would have burned for such comment! But those are the Catholic hierarchies today. Condoms have not ever been an issue for centuries. Prohibiting them is murder.
@mchandler2112"Anyone else really dislike the moderator throughout this? She shouldn't have told the audience the pre-debate scores before they voted a second time."
@abadcaseofthebeatles no you got it all wrong. the people in the crowd are actually intelligent. if this took place in the US, the crowd would be a bunch of riled up gop rednecks
@DiglettUser that is just your wildly stereotypical view on all americans speaking, and it is far from the truth. you obviously are ignorant of the american church. GOP? i know very few catholics in america that are part of the GOP, and even fewer that i would classify as "rednecks". you are generalising a small minority for the majority. leave your stereotypes behind before you do that, please.
i'm sorry, but the reason the audience was so anti-catholic is because it is in england, one of the most hateful nations towards the church. and, mind you, the religion most of them follow was started not by christ (like the catholic church) but by a unfaithful, tyrant king who enjoyed hanging priests, nuns, and especially his wives.
had this debate occurred in the united states, ireland, mexico, poland, italy, the phillippines, canada, brazil.... the outcome would be highly in favor of the church. these english people are just angry people who can't find the truth because their religion doesn't know how to give it to them.
@abadcaseofthebeatles the church has been in england longer than any of the countries you mentioned, minus italy. english people are not angry, or even opposed to religion. what we are brought up and trained to do however, is not to believe unquestioningly. we study the world objectively. to explore, understand empiricism, be interested in and research more than just one view. the church asks us to believe blindly, without real physical evidence. and make up our own minds
I disapproved of Hitchens' going out in that manner, going for the cheap laugh with a rough generalisation of priests. If it's going to be an intelligent debate, show respect for the intelligence of the audience by not making this kind of wild claim.
@93seanwalker I don't think he tried to generalise priests at all. I think the point he was trying to make is that it seems so ironic that the people the Catholic church so desperately tries to demonise can very well be some of the nicest and trustworthy people you will ever meet, while the so called ambassadors (some held in very high regards by the church) can commit such unspeakable acts.
The Bishop really did make a good final statement, issues with the church are not the same as whether or not ir is a force for good, a church that does good around the world and has that as its mission. (not a Catholic)
I wasn't really convinced by Hitchens and Fry. They just use their personal experience and debate through manipulating the emotions of the audience mainly. Maybe thats how they managed to persuade most of the audience.
To be fair to the Catholic side, the pairing of Stephan Fry and Christopher Hitchens is the intellectual team from hell. They could be arguing against the existence of gravity and i'd still end up believe them.
@Spaceman2921 Are you serious? You're blaming Christianity for STD! STD came about because we ignored the teachings of the Church - chastity. I don't get you, people. You are so misinformed and I feel so sorry for you. I am a hypocrite because it's very difficult to follow Christ. But I would never say that they're wrong. I am just weak. Just because I cannot sing the song, does not make the song bad. Get it?
@einnaecarg so your all knowing god made sex fantastic for us and then made it so we are supposed to resist enjoying it or HE will end you forever and ever in the pit of hell amen? how stupid are you?
@Denchanter357 Not all things that feel fantastic are good for us. Take 'drugs' for example. It may make someone feels good but we all know that it's not good for the body. Besides, the Church never said that 'sex' is bad. In the contrary, the Church considers it a holy act that should be conducted appropriately and should never be abused. We are supposed to enjoy sex with our husband or wife. Look what happened around us because we abused sex - AIDS, STD, PROSTITUTION....
@einnaecarg i never made the claim it was good. i said it was fantastic, i was trying to impart the idea that it was very fun. next you are going to say you dont believe in evolution or some such nonesense as well.
@einnaecarg aside from that you should also note that evolution wise monogamy is a highly unnatural state. and that it arose from factors that were not god based at the time.
@Denchanter357 OMG... your comments only show that you don't know the Church's teachings. It is so apparent you are just as misinformed as Hitchens and Fry. I suggest that you study the Catholic Church's teachings first before you come back and continue engaging into the debate. No offense.
@einnaecarg well the church is all in favor of evolution for one. and you seem to think yoou are on proper grounds for a debate. im pretty much done talking to you already. *waves at the pidgeon on the chess board*
@einnaecarg I agree that Denchanter357 seems to be misinformed. However, Hitchens and Fry evidently aren't as they debate for a whole 5 videos over what the catholic church believes without having even a single mistake in the midst of their work.
@graypatrick99 Hitchens and Fry were correct in enumerating the sins of Christians. But the debate was not about Christians as a whole being a good force in the world or not. The debate was about the Catholic Church. And that's where Hitchens and Fry got it wrong. They do not know the Church's dogma or if they do, they deliberately ignored them. They only told the crowd the sins of some of us and not what you and I ought to do according to the gospel.
If everyone thought like that, no one would have sex and the human race would die out in one generation.
and it's either EVREY SINGLE PERSON ON THE PLANET stops having sex (although sometimes they can't even control that), or Mr. Pope McSillyhat tells everyone that they can use condoms and STDs stop spreading.
@Spaceman2921 Again... the Church's teaching on sex is NOT not to have sex but to live a CHASTE life. As a matter of fact, the faith encourages to procreate. That's why artificial contraception is considered morally wrong. If we start living a chaste life, having a healthy population growth and a healthy body and soul is more likely to be achieved than having a society who accepts and worse promotes sexual promiscuity. You and I are more than sex subjects. We are God's children.
The church is wrong about many things, but its unfair to say that nothing it does is beneficial. I'd never heard of Christopher Hitchens before now, and I've decided I don't like him. Steven Fry remains one of the greatest living human beings, Widdy is just about as unbearable as ever, and my favourite closing statement came from John.
@ScoopMeisterGeneral Pff you don't need to choose a side! Hell, I'm in the middle on the good of the church in the world but not undecided, it is and it isn't, somethings it does right and helps benefit others and in somethings it outrightly fails. Which doesn't necessarily make Atheism a perfect ideology either but at least Atheist such as Fry except that truth, and rightly criticise the church and the failings of fellow seculars.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Seriously if a fag was to babysit my kids I'd call the police. The priests which assult boys are gay, just like the pedos they usually find there gay. Its obvious gays are messed up, they got brain problems lol.
@phatbimmer Call the police with that..."Hey sir, can you arrest the guy babysiting my son ? he is gay omg" That's not illegal you narrow minded retard..
As a sceptic, I must wonder how many people in the audience voted for "Yes" pre-debate with the explicit intent of voting "No" afterwards. I'm a paranoid bastard like that ;)
I may be a pretty hardcore Atheist, but even I cringed somewhat when the For Category dropped 400 people and Against Category picked up all the undecideds. Talk about a thrashing.
@MisterShine7 this is what happens when intelligent debate is open and fair, those who represent an establishment that is against this, always come out with egg on their face. ie, religious dogma put up to scrutiny will always fall flat on its ass
Fry & Hitchens were champions of reason! There are few things these days which can make me optimistic about the future of our species but those two certainly provide encouragement that we may achieve all that we are capable of!
Don't get this positive view of the ten commandments... I wish Hitchens made the point of how they do not mention Child abuse, Rape, Torture, Slavery, Assault or Vandalism. If they were just considered a guideline for future conduct which was not taken all that seriously then that would be fine, but Widdecombe and about 80% of America think they are the best thing to happen to human morality. They cover too little.
Stephen Fry was the best, the arch bishop was the second best, and Hitchens was way ahead of Widecombe. The arch bishop and Hitchens were close, but Fry kicked ass. I think Hitchens could have done better if he had take Fry's concilliatory approach (as the bishop tried to in his closing.
@tdurran The bishop wasn't as pathetic as Widdecombe, true, but he also didn't really say anything substantial. It was the usual church apologist speech, skipping over anything negative and repeating the same tired spiel, and it left a lot to be desired in a debate titled "Intelligence^2".
The Church can take a very long walk off a short pier. The amount of good it's done in the world pales irreparably when compared to all the injustice and cruelty suffered by citizens of the world at its hands.
I agree with Hitchens; Stephen Fry defeats Priests as the sort of man I would want babysitting my children.
@stupidfatuglybastard They help beacuse it is an oppertunity to sprea their pathetic dogma. It's not charity it's buisness it's on the same level as saying giving out a leaflet for your buisness is a charitable act. Fuck religion.
I was really shocked by those numbers. I sided with Hitchens/Fry in the end, but I was expecting the 'for' numbers to either be the same or slightly more from the undecided. Shocked
When I hear the comment by the woman made at 1:27 I get so sad.
I get sad over the fact that we (the Western civilization) discovered Africa (and other continents) too soon. It all should have been discovered without preaching Christianity in the meanwhile.
For people with so little chance of surviving sometimes hope is all they have, but when you make them hope for something using the 10 commandments - no, threats, they are pure threats - you are pure evil and you sicken me to the core.
a black bishop!..who would have thought!!...he must not have read the bible of hate that would have him stoned to death for the colour of his skin. the whole religion thing is getting seriously fuckin funny.
@stupidfatuglybastard Never again when I see someone that appears to be a stupid, fat, ugly bastard will I think "Boy do I not want to hear what that stupid, fat, ugly bastard has to say."
Watch #3 of this 5 part video and look at time stamp 2:30 - 3:00 it speaks of Islamic extremists stoning an adulterer to death and showing "mercy" to the girl he knocked up by allowing her to give birth before they kill her by stoning. Granted its not the Catholic church but i found it ironic when its a debate on the concept of a "force for good" in a religion.
You're free to follow the church or not, as you please! So, whats the problem? You either join the church, and don't use condomes for the adultry you don't commit OR you dont join and use condomes. I mean, if you're going to ignore one of the major commandments, why care about the condome? Its a free world, the Catholic Church can't procecute you.
Issues about homosexuality? Fry wouldn't join the church, even if it changed.
@alexpjp You seem to miss the point. The Catholic Church does not promote random fornication, which is the main cause of HIV-infection. On the contrary, they advice against it. So if you follow their advice, you're good. Fry even acknowledges that!
The condom-industry is way off here. People who is taking the advice of the catholic church, do not need a single condom, no matter how much you try to turn the matter.
@YouDabian No, you miss the point. I also would advise monogamy etc. but MANY people can't control their urges, and it's better that IF they do it (not that they should, but if they do), they use condoms. And what about the inquisition, and child rape? I don't see how people can even consider being catholic after all that. But that's their business, as long as they don't impart it on their children.
@alexpjp I am not sure you get my point. You ask, "What if people 'can not' control their urges?". First, you are dismissing free will right there. Some people obviously can control their urges, and of course everyone with a free will would be able to. For the sake of the argument, however, lets assume that some people are not in control, and are driven by their urges. In this case, they would obviously not be following the church, and might as well use condoms. I do believe in free will though.
@YouDabian I'm not dismissing free will. However, everyone has hormones etc. it's biology; so IF they're gonna go ahead and do it (which as I say, I agree is better that they avoid), they still feel under pressure from the brainwashing of the evil catholic church not to use it - because they've been told it's actually WORSE for HIV, not that it helps - why? Because evil shites like the pope spread lies which are killing millions.
@alexpjp We still need to establish, that the church in fact did say that sex without condoms is more safe than sex with condoms. I am pretty sure our gay friend got that wrong. I agree that if they've been told that, its wrong, and should be corrected, but I very much doubt it.
@YouDabian Were this information wrong, he'd have been corrected there and then by those on the other side of the panel, but he wasn't, and Stephen Fry is not one to enter a debate ignorant of the facts that matter. It's obvious why this kind of information may not be very easily accessible, because it's clearly controversial.
@TalesOfWar Well, I think he is putting his words very cleverly. The Catholic Church is most likely saying, that their way is better than the way of the condome. I'd have to agree with it, on this particular point. Sex with a single safe partner, would potentially be more safe than a condome. A condome can break. Only way safe sex can go wrong, is if either partner gets infected or was already infected. So if they both take the test, they should be good.
@YouDabian actualy sterphen fry said that the church spred the lie that using condoms INCREASED the chances of catching aids. scaring people into not using them.
@iparry026 Thats right, Fry did suggest that. I don't know where he got it from. However, if you compare random fornification using condoms, with no fornification, I guess in a few cases people with condoms might spread HIV where absence wouldn't. However, saying that fornification without condoms is better than fornification with condoms is of course misleading, and if the church has given that impression, its obviously still wrong. If you can find Fry's source, I am guessing he got it wrong.
This debate wasnt fair, they chose the most ignorant archbishop to represent the catholic church i mean the stupid nigger could barely speak english. In my opinion i thought this debate was a bit pathetic. its like watching an english premier team playing against a 2nd division mexican team.
and what'll the Catholics consolation be for losing the debate? The delusional thought that they're atheist opponents will burn eternally, very brotherly.
That last vote is all the proof you need that the Catholic Church is a relic of a caste system that fed itself off the fears of those who didn't know any better.
It's time the Vatican was removed from this Earth, so humanity can get on with being the best it can be.
One works for parachute journalism known for its profound bashing of the minorities.And he is defending the rights of oppressed minorities.Can't work that one up.More like telling the hunchback of noitre dame to sit up straight.And the finale thunderous applause from.the "minorities".Who are worried in every newspaper survey about multiculture ,second to post financial meltdown.Oh ,dear dear.
Ahhh,first world .Unemployment,moral decline,subprime crisis,foreclosures.You are right .Elderly spending Christmas alone because of broken family.You are right ,God left you ages .He is now in emerging countries.Let us not forget the greatest theft of wealth.Add depression and obesity while at it .
I just enjoy the fact that Widdecombe deemed a three minute speech long enough to justify all the misdeeds and mistakes of the church in the last 2000 years.She was DEFINITELY going to convert me.
i think it was the fifteenth time onaiyekan said "de cattolic choch is a foss for good in de worlt" that swung me.
nobovrilformethanks 7 hours ago
The lady at the end of this video seems to be arguing that giving birth is some sort of disease that needs to be cured. To imply that the Catholic Church is prohibiting the use or availability of condoms in Africa is RIDICULOUS. The Catholic Church, again, does not force anyone to do anything. I have been a Catholic all my life the Church has never forced me to do anything, never, ever. These people do not want the Church to have the religious liberty to believe and preach what they do.
thursday2217 1 day ago
@thursday2217 If the catholic church does not force anyone to do anything, how come it tells people that using condoms is evil and will make them end up in hell?
I'm sorry, but you need to look at the policies of the catholic church before telling us that all it's policies are absolutely correct.
graypatrick99 1 day ago
@graypatrick99 My oh my, where do I begin. One, you are misinformed about the Church teaching on sex and contraceptives. Two, promoting what the Church asserts is truth is not forcing anyone to do or believe anything. What don't you get about that. Three, the Church does not have the power to send anyone to Hell. Four, I never said all the Church's policies are absolutely correct. Five, Hitchens and Fry are not only mistaken but are purposefully so.
thursday2217 1 day ago
@graypatrick99 The Church does not force anyone to do anything. She is the means which we receive the graces we need to have eternal life. BUT not you or I are forced to do anything. With our free will we do what we do. If you are not a Christian, I supposed that you don't believe that there is hell. Then you have nothing to worry about. You can pretty much do whatever it is that you want to do. And good luck.
einnaecarg 1 day ago
@thursday2217 please understand that giving birth is DEADLY. less than 100 years ago more than 25% of women died during childbirth. Many women living in Africa lack access to the modern medical care that has reduced this statistic. Simple contraceptives, (that are "sinful" in the church's eyes,) be they condoms or any other form, save lives. Also, a number of these women are raped, by gangs or by the military/para military/police...they do not choose to have intercourse.
PumpkinKyuubi 50 minutes ago
@thursday2217 oh and aside from the dangers of childbirth, there is also the problem with HIV/AIDS. (btw for a reference most of my family are obstetricians)
PumpkinKyuubi 48 minutes ago
those end poll results were so satisfying
garfrain 2 days ago 2
the archbishop cant see how the condom issue is not a force for good from the catholic church even at the end of the debate. how sad that this man leads people. he clearly wasnt there for half or more of the debate!
Denchanter357 2 days ago
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What matters is an honest pursuit of the truth which I argue Hitchens , not the Church,would have us abandon. He could not abide a truth that pointed to a being greater than himself and his own intellect. And why should we be persuaded by him when he is by his own admission, just a trousered ape.
lexalulu997 3 days ago 2
@lexalulu997 Aah, reason! What a breath of fresh air.
lexalulu997 2 days ago
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The Church's mistakes prove that man is capable of atrocities It speaks to the nature of humanity and not the inhumanity of the Church. Belief systems whether based on a belief in the God, a spaghetti god or no God can be used by its adherents for good or evil.
lexalulu997 3 days ago 2
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The Church is made up of people; sinners, scoundrels and perverts among them. The Church and its advocates have also been victims of persecution by both secular and other religious forces.
lexalulu997 3 days ago 2
@lexalulu997 This was so well said. I notice no one has addressed these arguments. Your arguments are right on target.
thursday2217 1 day ago
I cannot imagine the world as a better place to live in without Christianity or the Catholic Church for that matter. I am still not convinced of the arguments of the anti-catholic people. The only reason I can think of why they are antagonistic to the Church is that its teachings are an inconvenience truth to them that's why they demonize it. They don't get it. Yes, Christians are hypocrites and it's that hypocrisy that gives the Church its credibility.
einnaecarg 3 days ago
I bet Widdecombe was gutted every time the archbishop started to speak.
Carb86 4 days ago
The Catholic Bishop said that the Church is not perfect!? According to Catholic teaching the Church, as a whole, IS perfect! "Credo... et unam, sanctam, cathólicam et apostólicam Ecclésiam" Nicene Creed. So, the Bishop, according to very basic doctrine, is a HERETIC. Anathema!!! ;)) But of course, when one tries to wiggle out of direct questions, one might get confused. And how on earth could he imagine to win a debate against Hitchens and Fry? He must really believe in miracles!?! :))
000dodo000 4 days ago
@000dodo000 I don't know where you got your catechism, but you were taught wrong. Sorry.
einnaecarg 3 days ago
@einnaecarg Dammed Jesuits! This shows how sly they can be! Wrong catechism! Treacherous priests! 12 years with them! And theology and philosophy... and I had been taught wrong, all the time! But probably it is my fault. More likely I did not understand.
But then, is it not also the fault of the teacher? ;)))))
Thank you for you reply. Jokes apart, I shall think about it.
All the best.
000dodo000 3 days ago
@000dodo000 Yes, it was probably the fault of the teacher or you. But again, the fault of the teacher or the student for that matter is not necessarily the fault of the Church. That's where Hitchens has difficulty in comprehending.
einnaecarg 2 days ago
@einnaecarg Sorry, my reply was a bit patronizing. But I am actually interested in your reply. Why do you think I was taught wrong? I cited the Nicene Creed and the same goes for 2 councils. Most of Christian denominations accept it. Some disagree with the "trinitarian" bit. But all, i believe, accept that the/their Church is perfect and saint as a whole. Is it not so? And this more so applies to the Catholic church and it has been reaffirmed by the Pope, or not? so too for the Orthodox, CoE, L.
000dodo000 3 days ago
@000dodo000 I'm sorry but I cannot find your original comment where I believe you were wrong. So it's hard for me to respond to your reply. Sorry.
einnaecarg 2 days ago
@000dodo000 Okay... I found your original comment. You said that the Church claims that she is perfect. And you cited NIcene Creed as a proof. Where is PERFECT in the " I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church." ? Is this part of the so called "enlightenment"? People don't know the meaning of words anymore. I thought the enlightenment makes someone wiser.
einnaecarg 2 days ago
Eat that Roman Catholic Church.....
TheLalaGOD 5 days ago
I do not find the arguments of Fry and Hitchens very compelling nor are they intellectually honest. To reduce the teaching of the Catholic Church to the petulant ramblings of these two angry atheists is obscene. They claim a great oppression by the Catholic Church on them. Why? The church does not force anyone to do anything. Love? Didn't hear any from the two atheists did hear it from the two representing the church.
lexalulu997 6 days ago
@lexalulu997 Oh, how interesting. I thought exactly the same of the panel defending the proposition, I found the Archbishop to be most intellectually dishonest and rather ignorant in theology, as in the end, when he said that the Church is not perfect. What for theNicene Creed? The Church, in its whole is Saint! In the 17th c. he would have burned for such comment! But those are the Catholic hierarchies today. Condoms have not ever been an issue for centuries. Prohibiting them is murder.
000dodo000 4 days ago
@lexalulu997 that wasn't me. It was my mom but I agree with what she is saying
lexalulu997 3 days ago
Anyone else really dislike the moderator throughout this? She shouldn't have told the audience the pre-debate scores before they voted a second time.
mchandler2112 1 week ago 2
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@mchandler2112"Anyone else really dislike the moderator throughout this? She shouldn't have told the audience the pre-debate scores before they voted a second time."
She did.
000dodo000 4 days ago
@mchandler2112 Agree. What a clever strategy.
einnaecarg 3 days ago
@abadcaseofthebeatles no you got it all wrong. the people in the crowd are actually intelligent. if this took place in the US, the crowd would be a bunch of riled up gop rednecks
DiglettUser 1 week ago 3
@DiglettUser that is just your wildly stereotypical view on all americans speaking, and it is far from the truth. you obviously are ignorant of the american church. GOP? i know very few catholics in america that are part of the GOP, and even fewer that i would classify as "rednecks". you are generalising a small minority for the majority. leave your stereotypes behind before you do that, please.
abadcaseofthebeatles 1 week ago
i'm sorry, but the reason the audience was so anti-catholic is because it is in england, one of the most hateful nations towards the church. and, mind you, the religion most of them follow was started not by christ (like the catholic church) but by a unfaithful, tyrant king who enjoyed hanging priests, nuns, and especially his wives.
abadcaseofthebeatles 2 weeks ago
had this debate occurred in the united states, ireland, mexico, poland, italy, the phillippines, canada, brazil.... the outcome would be highly in favor of the church. these english people are just angry people who can't find the truth because their religion doesn't know how to give it to them.
abadcaseofthebeatles 2 weeks ago
@abadcaseofthebeatles the church has been in england longer than any of the countries you mentioned, minus italy. english people are not angry, or even opposed to religion. what we are brought up and trained to do however, is not to believe unquestioningly. we study the world objectively. to explore, understand empiricism, be interested in and research more than just one view. the church asks us to believe blindly, without real physical evidence. and make up our own minds
livstar93 1 week ago 4
@abadcaseofthebeatles im sorry, but the plain fact is that they need to get with modern times, this is clearly obvious here
burningdownthepillar 1 week ago
She sounds like she's ready to cry, a job well done.
jman945x 2 weeks ago
I disapproved of Hitchens' going out in that manner, going for the cheap laugh with a rough generalisation of priests. If it's going to be an intelligent debate, show respect for the intelligence of the audience by not making this kind of wild claim.
93seanwalker 2 weeks ago
@93seanwalker I don't think he tried to generalise priests at all. I think the point he was trying to make is that it seems so ironic that the people the Catholic church so desperately tries to demonise can very well be some of the nicest and trustworthy people you will ever meet, while the so called ambassadors (some held in very high regards by the church) can commit such unspeakable acts.
Tsimosh 1 week ago
Always the unattractive virgins obsessed with chastity
weefeatures 2 weeks ago
@weefeatures i'm an unattractive virgin and i'm not obsessed with chastity....
TheAlmightyAss 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheAlmightyAss " i'm an unattractive virgin and i'm not obsessed with chastity...."
:)))) With your humor you won't stay a virgin long! :)))
000dodo000 4 days ago
realizing of course that I'm about to be deluged with plenty of smart-ass comments, I would like to ask a question that has bothered me for a while
why is it unrealistic or wrong to ask a people to live lives of moral heroism?
1classicliberal 2 weeks ago
@1classicliberal it's not. Claiming that Christianity, let alone Catholicism holds the patent on morality is what's wrong with it.
str0be 2 weeks ago
K.O take yer vatican and shove it up yer arse.
AirBoyPlummets 2 weeks ago
That final voting was rather brutal but may reason and free thinkers prevail!
Cubanuel 2 weeks ago
The Bishop really did make a good final statement, issues with the church are not the same as whether or not ir is a force for good, a church that does good around the world and has that as its mission. (not a Catholic)
dongfeilong88 2 weeks ago
@dongfeilong88
If a church actually increases the amount of AIDS-victims, I reckon it's definitely NOT a force of good.
A force of good would either not make a difference on those issues, or improve them.
HenkHenk76 2 weeks ago
FATALITY
MJFAN666 3 weeks ago 2
I wasn't really convinced by Hitchens and Fry. They just use their personal experience and debate through manipulating the emotions of the audience mainly. Maybe thats how they managed to persuade most of the audience.
BlueDemeter 3 weeks ago
they persuaded them with reasoned intelligent debate
davidkmha 2 weeks ago
lol at the clap for 34 undecided
qxtctv 3 weeks ago
To be fair to the Catholic side, the pairing of Stephan Fry and Christopher Hitchens is the intellectual team from hell. They could be arguing against the existence of gravity and i'd still end up believe them.
Hallerz212 3 weeks ago 39
@Hallerz212
That gravity stuff is all bullshit anyway. God pushes us down with his mighty hands.
Spaceman2921 1 week ago
@Spaceman2921 Normally I hate Youtube jokes, but I REALLY laughed at this one.
gregorisgod 1 week ago
@gregorisgod
That's why people hate christianity. No jokes.
and that whole std thing
Spaceman2921 1 week ago
@Spaceman2921 Are you serious? You're blaming Christianity for STD! STD came about because we ignored the teachings of the Church - chastity. I don't get you, people. You are so misinformed and I feel so sorry for you. I am a hypocrite because it's very difficult to follow Christ. But I would never say that they're wrong. I am just weak. Just because I cannot sing the song, does not make the song bad. Get it?
einnaecarg 3 days ago
@einnaecarg so your all knowing god made sex fantastic for us and then made it so we are supposed to resist enjoying it or HE will end you forever and ever in the pit of hell amen? how stupid are you?
Denchanter357 2 days ago
@Denchanter357 Not all things that feel fantastic are good for us. Take 'drugs' for example. It may make someone feels good but we all know that it's not good for the body. Besides, the Church never said that 'sex' is bad. In the contrary, the Church considers it a holy act that should be conducted appropriately and should never be abused. We are supposed to enjoy sex with our husband or wife. Look what happened around us because we abused sex - AIDS, STD, PROSTITUTION....
einnaecarg 2 days ago
@einnaecarg i never made the claim it was good. i said it was fantastic, i was trying to impart the idea that it was very fun. next you are going to say you dont believe in evolution or some such nonesense as well.
Denchanter357 2 days ago
@einnaecarg aside from that you should also note that evolution wise monogamy is a highly unnatural state. and that it arose from factors that were not god based at the time.
Denchanter357 2 days ago
@Denchanter357 OMG... your comments only show that you don't know the Church's teachings. It is so apparent you are just as misinformed as Hitchens and Fry. I suggest that you study the Catholic Church's teachings first before you come back and continue engaging into the debate. No offense.
einnaecarg 2 days ago
@einnaecarg well the church is all in favor of evolution for one. and you seem to think yoou are on proper grounds for a debate. im pretty much done talking to you already. *waves at the pidgeon on the chess board*
Denchanter357 2 days ago
@einnaecarg I agree that Denchanter357 seems to be misinformed. However, Hitchens and Fry evidently aren't as they debate for a whole 5 videos over what the catholic church believes without having even a single mistake in the midst of their work.
graypatrick99 1 day ago
@graypatrick99 Hitchens and Fry were correct in enumerating the sins of Christians. But the debate was not about Christians as a whole being a good force in the world or not. The debate was about the Catholic Church. And that's where Hitchens and Fry got it wrong. They do not know the Church's dogma or if they do, they deliberately ignored them. They only told the crowd the sins of some of us and not what you and I ought to do according to the gospel.
einnaecarg 1 day ago
@einnaecarg
If everyone thought like that, no one would have sex and the human race would die out in one generation.
and it's either EVREY SINGLE PERSON ON THE PLANET stops having sex (although sometimes they can't even control that), or Mr. Pope McSillyhat tells everyone that they can use condoms and STDs stop spreading.
Spaceman2921 2 days ago
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einnaecarg 1 day ago
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@Spaceman2921 Again... the Church's teaching on sex is NOT not to have sex but to live a CHASTE life. As a matter of fact, the faith encourages to procreate. That's why artificial contraception is considered morally wrong. If we start living a chaste life, having a healthy population growth and a healthy body and soul is more likely to be achieved than having a society who accepts and worse promotes sexual promiscuity. You and I are more than sex subjects. We are God's children.
einnaecarg 1 day ago
The church is wrong about many things, but its unfair to say that nothing it does is beneficial. I'd never heard of Christopher Hitchens before now, and I've decided I don't like him. Steven Fry remains one of the greatest living human beings, Widdy is just about as unbearable as ever, and my favourite closing statement came from John.
I remain sat on the fence.
ScoopMeisterGeneral 3 weeks ago
@ScoopMeisterGeneral Pff you don't need to choose a side! Hell, I'm in the middle on the good of the church in the world but not undecided, it is and it isn't, somethings it does right and helps benefit others and in somethings it outrightly fails. Which doesn't necessarily make Atheism a perfect ideology either but at least Atheist such as Fry except that truth, and rightly criticise the church and the failings of fellow seculars.
ThoriaBladecadas 3 weeks ago
what a comment 'i spent 38 years of my life as a catholic ....... then i saw the light'........Boom
clearviewuk 3 weeks ago
If you were ever going to argue with someone you would hope it wasn't Fry or Hitchens but against both of them no one would stand a chance
galloi 3 weeks ago
Anne Widdecombe's face at the end was an absolute picture.
mattcorden95 4 weeks ago
catholic church just went CABOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM
lasvagasboy 4 weeks ago
Catholic Church just got PWNED!
Khemist82 1 month ago
Anne Widdecombe is truly truly truly a moron
PaulBrudenell1990 1 month ago
Lol trollin
phatbimmer 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Seriously if a fag was to babysit my kids I'd call the police. The priests which assult boys are gay, just like the pedos they usually find there gay. Its obvious gays are messed up, they got brain problems lol.
phatbimmer 1 month ago
@phatbimmer Would you let a gay man babysit your daughter then?
aznneozanet 1 month ago
@phatbimmer Paedophiles do not go after children (including just as many girls as boys) because they're actually gay. -.- How ridiculous.
phantasmagorial 1 month ago
@phatbimmer You are the one with brain problems phatbimmer, you disaster of a human
brucechrist 1 month ago
@phatbimmer So a man who rapes his young daughter is alright? 'Cause he'd be straight, right? What a fucking fail logic.
ZeonGenesis 1 month ago
@phatbimmer Yes, it was evidenced by the eloquent and intelligent speech Stephen Fry made that all homosexuals "got brain problems lol".
ProfessorParadox7 1 month ago
@phatbimmer Call the police with that..."Hey sir, can you arrest the guy babysiting my son ? he is gay omg" That's not illegal you narrow minded retard..
Mandaramaster 1 month ago
To be fair the Catholic argument had no chance from the start. They might as well have posed the question "Are you in favour of child rape?".
adam4757 1 month ago
Ohhhh man I wish i had been there!
FrankieSayRelaxxx1 1 month ago
Ann, my love, if you thought the incoming poll was disappointing, wait till you hear the outcoming poll!
wicked4584 1 month ago
As a sceptic, I must wonder how many people in the audience voted for "Yes" pre-debate with the explicit intent of voting "No" afterwards. I'm a paranoid bastard like that ;)
~Sylv
Sylvine 1 month ago
@stupidfatuglybastard too true brother
PocketRocketPRP 1 month ago
Has the Archbishop slept through the whole debate?
paranoidAndroid23 1 month ago
I may be a pretty hardcore Atheist, but even I cringed somewhat when the For Category dropped 400 people and Against Category picked up all the undecideds. Talk about a thrashing.
MisterShine7 1 month ago 29
@MisterShine7 this is what happens when intelligent debate is open and fair, those who represent an establishment that is against this, always come out with egg on their face. ie, religious dogma put up to scrutiny will always fall flat on its ass
binkiie4dictator 3 weeks ago
Fry & Hitchens were champions of reason! There are few things these days which can make me optimistic about the future of our species but those two certainly provide encouragement that we may achieve all that we are capable of!
maximumscrunch 1 month ago
Don't get this positive view of the ten commandments... I wish Hitchens made the point of how they do not mention Child abuse, Rape, Torture, Slavery, Assault or Vandalism. If they were just considered a guideline for future conduct which was not taken all that seriously then that would be fine, but Widdecombe and about 80% of America think they are the best thing to happen to human morality. They cover too little.
TheScydeFX 1 month ago
The vatican... Fuck it and its wealth. Go choke on all the gold and money you have while claiming to care for the poor and needy.
Tzimnewman3 1 month ago
Stephen Fry was the best, the arch bishop was the second best, and Hitchens was way ahead of Widecombe. The arch bishop and Hitchens were close, but Fry kicked ass. I think Hitchens could have done better if he had take Fry's concilliatory approach (as the bishop tried to in his closing.
tdurran 1 month ago
@tdurran The bishop wasn't as pathetic as Widdecombe, true, but he also didn't really say anything substantial. It was the usual church apologist speech, skipping over anything negative and repeating the same tired spiel, and it left a lot to be desired in a debate titled "Intelligence^2".
gabberis 1 month ago 2
It's so good to see the bullies get some comeuppance, even on this small scale it's encouraging.
JesusSuckedGayPenis 1 month ago 2
7:20 *Facepalm LOL
JesusSuckedGayPenis 1 month ago
The Church can take a very long walk off a short pier. The amount of good it's done in the world pales irreparably when compared to all the injustice and cruelty suffered by citizens of the world at its hands.
I agree with Hitchens; Stephen Fry defeats Priests as the sort of man I would want babysitting my children.
bravemnk2 1 month ago 2
LOGIC WIN!!!
always :)
saramartins95 1 month ago
@stupidfatuglybastard They help beacuse it is an oppertunity to sprea their pathetic dogma. It's not charity it's buisness it's on the same level as saying giving out a leaflet for your buisness is a charitable act. Fuck religion.
Numb3rkid 1 month ago
EAT DA POO POO
ecu06102 1 month ago 4
@ecu06102 is it the same guy?
Devoti 3 weeks ago
I was really shocked by those numbers. I sided with Hitchens/Fry in the end, but I was expecting the 'for' numbers to either be the same or slightly more from the undecided. Shocked
Razarelie 1 month ago
This is what happens when you force the church to a debate. Logic wins every time. Idiots.
blacksmith1925 1 month ago 4
The couldn't even compare to the performance of Hitchens / Fry
angeloowtf 1 month ago
they never had a chance.
dereksupadude 1 month ago
When I hear the comment by the woman made at 1:27 I get so sad.
I get sad over the fact that we (the Western civilization) discovered Africa (and other continents) too soon. It all should have been discovered without preaching Christianity in the meanwhile.
For people with so little chance of surviving sometimes hope is all they have, but when you make them hope for something using the 10 commandments - no, threats, they are pure threats - you are pure evil and you sicken me to the core.
Rynnakokki 1 month ago
With Stephen Fry in the panel, they never stood a chance! I should hire that guy to talk to my mother sometimes...
KissaKawaguichi 1 month ago
For all you bible bashers here, I will let the numbers speak for themselves.
AWOC221 1 month ago
a black bishop!..who would have thought!!...he must not have read the bible of hate that would have him stoned to death for the colour of his skin. the whole religion thing is getting seriously fuckin funny.
euroman32589 1 month ago
@euroman32589 You're a bit of an idiot, aren't you?
ScoopMeisterGeneral 3 weeks ago
@ScoopMeisterGeneral ..yes i am..an evolving idiot....you?
euroman32589 3 weeks ago
i thought that "for" will go down to 500 but to 260 :P
and the "agenst" go up to 1876 that is awsome
ARAFELI 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Gala2006
@stupidfatuglybastard Never again when I see someone that appears to be a stupid, fat, ugly bastard will I think "Boy do I not want to hear what that stupid, fat, ugly bastard has to say."
Well said.
Tilaron 1 month ago
@ 1:20 !NEXT
goldbluntz 1 month ago
It's hard to believe there are people in that room who still think the Church is a force for good.
willthis1do 1 month ago
Watch #3 of this 5 part video and look at time stamp 2:30 - 3:00 it speaks of Islamic extremists stoning an adulterer to death and showing "mercy" to the girl he knocked up by allowing her to give birth before they kill her by stoning. Granted its not the Catholic church but i found it ironic when its a debate on the concept of a "force for good" in a religion.
OkamsRazer 1 month ago
lol, religious dudes at the front are so unimpressed be fry and hitchens
icychillful 1 month ago
Fry's argument about condomes is moot.
You're free to follow the church or not, as you please! So, whats the problem? You either join the church, and don't use condomes for the adultry you don't commit OR you dont join and use condomes. I mean, if you're going to ignore one of the major commandments, why care about the condome? Its a free world, the Catholic Church can't procecute you.
Issues about homosexuality? Fry wouldn't join the church, even if it changed.
Come again fry!
YouDabian 1 month ago in playlist Flere videoer fra Gala2006
@YouDabian because they brainwash people from an early age; that, mixed with their sex drive, creates this fatal flaw.
alexpjp 1 month ago
@alexpjp You seem to miss the point. The Catholic Church does not promote random fornication, which is the main cause of HIV-infection. On the contrary, they advice against it. So if you follow their advice, you're good. Fry even acknowledges that!
The condom-industry is way off here. People who is taking the advice of the catholic church, do not need a single condom, no matter how much you try to turn the matter.
YouDabian 1 month ago
@YouDabian No, you miss the point. I also would advise monogamy etc. but MANY people can't control their urges, and it's better that IF they do it (not that they should, but if they do), they use condoms. And what about the inquisition, and child rape? I don't see how people can even consider being catholic after all that. But that's their business, as long as they don't impart it on their children.
alexpjp 1 month ago
@alexpjp I am not sure you get my point. You ask, "What if people 'can not' control their urges?". First, you are dismissing free will right there. Some people obviously can control their urges, and of course everyone with a free will would be able to. For the sake of the argument, however, lets assume that some people are not in control, and are driven by their urges. In this case, they would obviously not be following the church, and might as well use condoms. I do believe in free will though.
YouDabian 1 month ago
@YouDabian I'm not dismissing free will. However, everyone has hormones etc. it's biology; so IF they're gonna go ahead and do it (which as I say, I agree is better that they avoid), they still feel under pressure from the brainwashing of the evil catholic church not to use it - because they've been told it's actually WORSE for HIV, not that it helps - why? Because evil shites like the pope spread lies which are killing millions.
alexpjp 1 month ago
@alexpjp We still need to establish, that the church in fact did say that sex without condoms is more safe than sex with condoms. I am pretty sure our gay friend got that wrong. I agree that if they've been told that, its wrong, and should be corrected, but I very much doubt it.
YouDabian 1 month ago
@YouDabian Were this information wrong, he'd have been corrected there and then by those on the other side of the panel, but he wasn't, and Stephen Fry is not one to enter a debate ignorant of the facts that matter. It's obvious why this kind of information may not be very easily accessible, because it's clearly controversial.
TalesOfWar 1 month ago
@TalesOfWar Well, I think he is putting his words very cleverly. The Catholic Church is most likely saying, that their way is better than the way of the condome. I'd have to agree with it, on this particular point. Sex with a single safe partner, would potentially be more safe than a condome. A condome can break. Only way safe sex can go wrong, is if either partner gets infected or was already infected. So if they both take the test, they should be good.
YouDabian 1 month ago
@YouDabian actualy sterphen fry said that the church spred the lie that using condoms INCREASED the chances of catching aids. scaring people into not using them.
iparry026 1 month ago
@iparry026 Thats right, Fry did suggest that. I don't know where he got it from. However, if you compare random fornification using condoms, with no fornification, I guess in a few cases people with condoms might spread HIV where absence wouldn't. However, saying that fornification without condoms is better than fornification with condoms is of course misleading, and if the church has given that impression, its obviously still wrong. If you can find Fry's source, I am guessing he got it wrong.
YouDabian 1 month ago
That was uplifting.
MagneticPerturbation 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Gala2006
Still shocking that 268 voted for the motion. Hitch RIP.
markus310773 1 month ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
This debate wasnt fair, they chose the most ignorant archbishop to represent the catholic church i mean the stupid nigger could barely speak english. In my opinion i thought this debate was a bit pathetic. its like watching an english premier team playing against a 2nd division mexican team.
kneematode 1 month ago
...wow... Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry make quite the team.
fingerprint211b 1 month ago 3
and what'll the Catholics consolation be for losing the debate? The delusional thought that they're atheist opponents will burn eternally, very brotherly.
JohnyM91 1 month ago
Wat a kicking lol
eaglefort 2 months ago
Let's give Anne Widdecombe more air time on this topic and we can wipe out the Catholic Church completely.
mikelheron20 2 months ago 66
@mikelheron20 I know huh :D
SuperMemzzz 1 month ago
@mikelheron20 , you dont make sense. and for the rest of the 35. god bless you. all your so ignorant
jorgesjr5059 1 month ago
@jorgesjr5059 what about that statement is wrong ? have you even watched this debate ?
PaulBrudenell1990 1 month ago
@jorgesjr5059 All your so ignorant what?
Maxa1577 3 weeks ago
@stupidfatuglybastard Good on you. The only reason why he avoids it is because he has no answer which can support his argument
RainEyre10 2 months ago
@RainEyre10 Also its just as Christopher Hitchens puts it in his final statement. He's a hell of a lot more eloquent than I am anyway...
RainEyre10 2 months ago
Comment removed
RainEyre10 2 months ago
That last vote is all the proof you need that the Catholic Church is a relic of a caste system that fed itself off the fears of those who didn't know any better.
It's time the Vatican was removed from this Earth, so humanity can get on with being the best it can be.
GoddyofWar 2 months ago 18
@GoddyofWar your not smart. just ignorant
jorgesjr5059 1 month ago
@jorgesjr5059 Ignorant? I don't want to hear that word come from from a Religious persons mouth.
GoddyofWar 1 month ago
That last bit with the vote gave me a huge smile :) free thinking for the win!
Peaceberevenged 2 months ago 5
Anne Widdecombe, not only is she a conservative, but she remains a perfect example of why we shouldn't be.
EllyMcCormack 2 months ago 4
this debate was an epic win for freethinkers everywhere. The hitchslap hurts, doesn't it?
VanessaTexasGal 2 months ago
If you ask me jesus is a bit of a cunt
hawk420ification 2 months ago
One works for parachute journalism known for its profound bashing of the minorities.And he is defending the rights of oppressed minorities.Can't work that one up.More like telling the hunchback of noitre dame to sit up straight.And the finale thunderous applause from.the "minorities".Who are worried in every newspaper survey about multiculture ,second to post financial meltdown.Oh ,dear dear.
Conservatitive 2 months ago
@MarsManatee.
Ahhh,first world .Unemployment,moral decline,subprime crisis,foreclosures.You are right .Elderly spending Christmas alone because of broken family.You are right ,God left you ages .He is now in emerging countries.Let us not forget the greatest theft of wealth.Add depression and obesity while at it .
Conservatitive 2 months ago
The displacement of people to against the church was greater than the number of people originally for the church.
WOW that was satisfying.
A fantastic triumph of reason. It shows people will hear logic when it is presented.
MarsManatee 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Gala2006
They got Fry'ed. Hitch-slapped. That was eminently satisfying to watch.
MarkRosengarten 2 months ago
Get used to it, the trend has been set. Say goodbyr to religion.
Its going away
TinyBlueCage 2 months ago
Haha.
The votes showed that the Catholic Church got OWNED.
ec123456789able 2 months ago
I just enjoy the fact that Widdecombe deemed a three minute speech long enough to justify all the misdeeds and mistakes of the church in the last 2000 years.She was DEFINITELY going to convert me.
x3lozzz 2 months ago
just because shes a live long a-sexual lesbian, she just needs a good bean flicking
j3parrots 2 months ago
This is how politics should work. We hand too much power to these self-serving fuckers.
DaToNyOyO 2 months ago
"We've never said the catholic church is perfect" vs. "The pope is the infallible voice of god"
Fuck religion, it will destroy us all.
DaToNyOyO 2 months ago 2
WHAT ARE YOU FOR?!
Yeshua never even mentions homosexuality, That is the answer the Nigerian cunt wouldn't give.
DaToNyOyO 2 months ago
the opposition just got Hitchslaped
zorokism 2 months ago
Such a weird debate, having a scoreboard, but I do admit I rather enjoyed seeing the numbers at the end :)
KyleGCorcoran 2 months ago
I say F*** the Church!
Jridden2009 2 months ago 35
@Jridden2009
Steady on, Vicar!
norristerse 2 months ago