Whole Brain Emulation: The Logical Endpoint of Neuroinformatics?

[McJellyToast]

So what happens if a full living person's brain is scanned and placed into a robot, and the human and the robot meet each other?

[concorde123100]

Is he from Sweden his accent sounds SW

[flowewritharoma]

The Logical Endpoint of Neuroinformatics is awesome

[strcmt]

awesome you tube grip!!!

[unassumption]

Wouldnt we kinda need..a body? for the brain to walk in? the skeleto-muscular and neural systems are...connected

[SamSpade2010]

@unassumption He goes into that towards the end... his nightmare that he'll by cryogenically frozen and wake up stuck in Second Life.

[arch37]

@cakeisnotanumber You seem to be so sad about the vision of life for the future we all desire to be positive about! Jesus is the only trap door out of this box like life where men are going to war to destroy this planet out of greed & fear they won't have enough. They wasted it all so now they have to pay. Some think they can cheat their way out like the Bush family. Or they think they can go over where they don't belong & grab it away from others by making good excuses people hardly listen to!

[cakeisnotanumber]

@arch37 "Jesus is the only trap" - well said.

Actually I'm against greed, I don't need a god to realise greed is destructive. I have common sense. It seems you need to read a 2000 year old text in order to know how to behave.

[arch37]

@cakeisnotanumber God exists whether you say so or not. He can deal with even the likes of you but always in Love. If you prefer to listen to Jesus directly for today

Google Activated magazine see also issue guide

[cakeisnotanumber]

@arch37 So you can't provide any tangible evidence for the existence of God?

[arch37]

There are quite a few mysteries in the Bible but the invisibleness of God is for a purpose. Apparently Jesus and God desire humility in man not pride which motivates us to think we are better than God or others. He doesn't like self righteousness. So He deliberately doesn't appear to us in the flesh very often. Even Paul the apostle only heard a voise from Heaven not the appearance of Jesus. so step out and pray to Jesus to prove his existance. Have you ever done this? It works!

[cakeisnotanumber]

@arch37 Thanks for your comment. So you still can't provide any evidence then?

[scotchbeefy]

@arch37 i think about the damage we do to planet and everything on it every day, as most people do. i'm forced not out of choice to sit on the fence but there are so many others who sit on the same fence out of choice, theyy choose to accept, perhaps if we all believed in Jesus things would change but in the past he's been the fuel thats driven us further from a truly good reallity. We as men are completely responsible. There should only be need for one comandment...LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR.

[leovailati]

This guy is *awesome*! Although his English is hard to understand.

[scotchbeefy]

i'm pretty sure brains will never be understood singularly, our brains work on a quantum level, its deeper, than program, chemical or electrical impulse. If and When we as single human beings understand this quantum contorl of our brains we will discover or perhaps undiscover God. quantums work on complete chaos...its quite deep...

[cakeisnotanumber]

@scotchbeefy "i'm pretty sure semiconductors will never be understood singularly, semiconductors work on a quantum level" :)

Subatomic particles are chaotic but a molecule is not that chaotic, and a neuron even less chaotic. So I'd argue that it is possible. Check out the Blue Brain Project.

[scotchbeefy]

@cakeisnotanumber you speak to another guy (arch37) about there being no proof of God's existence....i think we are the proof, i believe that everything is proof although i also believe that if enough people believe there is no God then that would be the case....we are simply an anomaly between something and nothing, we are one of the infinite number of possibilities of existence.......if we think God exists then he does, a chat would be ideal. youtube limits the size of comments left.

[cakeisnotanumber]

@scotchbeefy "i also believe that if enough people believe there is no God then that would be the case" - Lots of people used to believe the Earth was flat, so by your logic the Earth changes shape depending on what shape people think it is?

"i think we are the proof" - You think or you know? What evidence have you got that God created us? Where is God now?

[scotchbeefy]

@cakeisnotanumber the only proof i have of Gods existence is the fact i have no proof....like u said, we once believed the eath was flat, we proved otherwise, this is where, to me quantum physics crosses the line into philosophy, it's the space between point A and point B of the photon, where does it go? I believe in collective consciousness and tribal habit....i'd like to know how you define God?

[cakeisnotanumber]

@scotchbeefy "i'd like to know how you define God?" - It's probably more sensible that we go with your definition as it is you who is claiming he exists. I don't believe in an infinite supernatural dictator that is involved in the lives of humans.

[scotchbeefy]

@cakeisnotanumber and yes....if we all believed the earth was hollow, it would be.

[scotchbeefy]

@cakeisnotanumber you know that a few hundred years B.C Pythagoras said the Earth was round, Columbus was still arguing about it years later, thankfully there were no psychiatrists then.....No 3.14 or America. I've also been blessed with free thought. and your vision of God is " an infinite supernatural dictator that is involved in the lives of humans." good to know! I'm Guessing you don't believe in Love.

[cakeisnotanumber]

@scotchbeefy You're changing the point somewhat. YOU said that if enough people believe something then it becomes true. Surely you know that to be untrue?

"I'm Guessing you don't believe in Love" :)

[scotchbeefy]

@cakeisnotanumber your becoming a little fickle....u~YOU changed the point, this went from a discussion about A.i to God to my beliefs. Love is an unquantifiable energy.

[scotchbeefy]

@cakeisnotanumber you've been quiet.......

[darris321]

@scotchbeefy ... "no 3.14"

... "still arguing about it"

you're joking right? the fact that the earth is round was well known to columbus. that's what he was doing... that was the whole point. a western trade route to india. and it wasn't even just columbus vs. the world. the spanish royalty gave him money because they agreed. portugal agreed but thought his stipulations were ludicrously luxurious. (he was asking for like 50% of gems found and 10% of land) these people weren't stupid.

[scotchbeefy]

@darris321 although Columbus believed the Earth was round and found the Americas, that wasn't until the 1400's....Pythagoras knew this almost a thousand years previous, the discussion was about perception of the World and how if enough people believe the world to be a certain way, thats the way it will be. Originally this was a discussion about the ability to copy the brain on all levels.....Hawking recently said that the universe was created from nothing, no matter, no space and no time.....

[darris321]

@scotchbeefy

1. the vikings found america.

2. it was you who said columbus was arguing about it. I said it was well known. Everybody knew the earth was round, and scandanavian countries probably knew there was an america. there have been theories that columbus secretly knew america was there.

3. perception doesn't equal truth. if the world believes 2+2=5 it still equals 4.

4. he did not say nothing. you need to reread it. but even if he did, it's irrelevant to everything you've just said.

[DavidOrtiz36]

@darris321 we cant say who discovered america first, we cant say who didn't! but we cant say who did

[darris321]

@scotchbeefy I personally don't agree with the theories from number two because he starved his crew when he miscalculated the circumference of the earth based on other mathematicians' calculations.

its kind of funny actually because one of the mathematicians he cited was arabic, and so, he used arabic miles. the other was italian... who used italian miles. one of them was about three times smaller than the other one

so he ended up with these weird columbian miles because he forgot to convert lol

[scotchbeefy]

@darris321 i think you read my comment wrong.....thats ok, with only 500 characters its difficult to discuss, i never said Columbus was the first to discover America either. would u like to discuss the brain and how or what would happen if we could download it?

[scotchbeefy]

@darris321 a cats in the box for exactly 48 hours...if we dont get it out on time....would the cat be alive or dead on the 48 hour mark? sometimes 5=2+2.

[Abgef]

"if we all believed the earth was hollow, it would be"

That's the dumbest shit I ever heard...fallacy of equivocation...it will only be in your own belief, not in reality

[DavidOrtiz36]

@Abgef the second you take your senses away from something how do you know reality isn't completely distorted? How do we know we don't only view said reality through filters we have build in our head... who's to say the earth isn't hollow? if we all believed it is, why wouldn't it be? Reality is only what we perceive after all... it is what we filter through our logic.

[Abgef]

@DavidOrtiz36

"the second you take your senses away from something how do you know reality isn't completely distorted?"

How do you know it is? can you prove such an outlandish claim?

"who's to say the earth isn't hollow? if we all believed it is, why wouldn't it be?"

Science, & Logic can say...& because there is no logical reason that objective reality exist only in our minds...objective truth is objective whether or not we exist. & is absurd to say objective reality is subjective.

[DavidOrtiz36]

@Abgef The thing about life is... anything is possible.... no i cannot prove that reality is one big distorted mess, but logically it is just as possible. Because LOGICALLY we cant disprove it. Logic is simply what we, as individuals, perceive to be possible and true.... Logically there is some sort of god that exists to 95% or more of the worlds population. Logically there isn't one to me. But nobody can prove either.

[DavidOrtiz36]

@Abgef Reality is a perception of what we think logically makes sense, and logic as i stated is a perception in itself. If every single person on this earth believed the earth was hollow, then who's to say our reality wouldn't allow it to be? Its a reality that god exists to a lot of people... just to use the reference again. Objective reality really becomes suggestive reality when you dive into physics and psychology. It becomes what we allow ourselves to perceive.

[Abgef]

@DavidOrtiz36

If every single person on this earth believed the earth was hollow, then who's to say our reality wouldn't allow it to be?

You are committing fallacy of equivocation here...There is a huge difference between percieved reality & actual reality...just because you cannot percieve the shape of the earth does not mean it's pizza shaped.

A blind man can fall under a sewer whether or not he percieves the sewer...if you want to dismiss logic here then your argument is illogical.

[DavidOrtiz36]

@Abgef the point is you cant disprove any of it.... the world around us could be much different than we know, and then our reality will change. This has been shown many times. Our reality is exactly and only what we perceive. Something we don't perceive we don't know about... I've discovered a whole knew thought process when i opened my mind to the idea that reality is perceived and not objective. Complete denial of a new theory is ignorance in any science...

[Abgef]

@DavidOrtiz36

"the world around us could be much different than we know, and then our reality will change"

Again...There is a huge difference between percieved reality & actual reality...why bother giving plausibility to theories that don't even have any evidence nor any logical sense.

A blind man can fall under a sewer whether or not he percieves the sewer.

Saying it's unprovable & unfalsifiable does not make it correct...I cannot disprove a unicorn therefore a unicorn must exist? ...wow

[DavidOrtiz36]

@Abgef you cannot disprove a unicorn, therefor it MAY exist.... reality is speculation. Everything is.... how do you know we don't live among several parallel realities, all very different from one another? how do you know a different way of thinking cant land us in an alternate reality? Im not saying any of this is correct, but to completely deny the theory is ludicrous. We know so little about our reality as it is. How do you know these theories hold no merit...

[Abgef]

@DavidOrtiz36

"reality is speculation"

percieved reality is speculation...actual reality exists regardless of whether you percieve it or not.

A blind man can fall under a sewer whether or not he percieves the sewer.

"to completely deny the theory is ludicrous"

it holds no merit because you give no evidence...just a bunch of claims saying that the world will be hollow if we percieve it to be...perception of reality is not actual reality, there's a HUGE difference.

[arch37]

No one mentioned what alone really means when one has copied his mind to a hard drive!

No interrelations with others? That would be the ultimate in slavery to ones self.

So Sandberg promotes self righteousness in a test tube! ha! What a ludicrous idea to me who has found the truth in Jesus.

Jesus' whole plan is to have you meet Him in this body on this earth through the Spirit! --Love Him & God,

[matThaHatter]

@arch37 If this is so laughable, why'd you take the time to watch and comment on this video? Some kind of self assurance? Personally, I spend very little time even THINKING about things that I find impossible or ridiculous, let alone watch and debate over (then again, making snide comments from behind an anonymous screen isn't "Debating").

Perhaps it's because you're an evangelical? If so, you might try not starting with rude, empty arrogance. Even SCIENTOLOGISTS&JEHOVAS WITNESSES know THAT!

[cakeisnotanumber]

@arch37 I'm guessing the reason you don't like people emulating the brain is because it will disprove that souls exist.

If you are going to mention God, then first please provide some good evidence he exists. Noone has EVER given any real evidence for the existence of God, so you'd be the first to do so.

Also prayer has been scientifically disproved, once the soul is disproved then religion is really a fail.

[arch37]

@cakeisnotanumber So Jesus died to introduce us to His Mother. At first while here it was an intro. to His Father God. When Jesus rose from the dead which no other prophet has done, He introduced us to His Mother the Holy Spirit. If any man reject the Mother that is the only unforgivable sin. All other sins or mistakes in life can be forgiven by receiving Jesus mind & copying it to your own through study of His words. It's like your a computer hard drive with a needed over haul and upgrade. arch

[arch37]

& be transformed into a new supernatural body like Christ has now as explained in the New Testament as Salvation.

A true possession occurs at the reception of Jesus' Words in your heart by reading John 3:16 & believing & clinging to it's truth & praying to receive it's simple promise.

Then due to it's promise being fulfilled by Jesus one can expect Salvation.

When our physical body gives out, we can expect an instant change into a Spirit being like Sandberg addresses

but not on a

[arch37]

but not on a hard drive alone but with all other human spirits in a Heavenly realm that truly exists!

Our existence after this life transforms to an existence as close as next to earth in a Heavenly City where we will be needed to help this World in recovery through new Heavenly Bodies that will fly instantly from one place to another at the speed of thought, eat or not eat, make love, have children & much more without being confined to a hard drive in some kind of idiotic lonely existence.

[lordjavathe3rd]

I think I'm the only one who thought this guy was very funny. His style of humor and timing are pretty good.

[kasuskasus]

Nice Swinglish accent! Now I'm going to watch the talk, too. :P

[LordSlag]

"When it gets down to around a million dollars then it becomes economical to replicate professionals and that's economic plutonium." HOLY FUCKSHIT!! Every fuse in my mind blew. Dammit, I don't want bad shit to happen...I want good shit to happen.

[jsymons1985]

I may be missing something here, but if you uploaded a dead brain into a computer, you would get a simulation of a dead brain! What about tiny nano bots that could scan the architecture of a living brain from the inside and use radio signals to broadcast the data to a hard drive in a lab... just a possibility for non-destructive brain mapping...

[LordSlag]

@jsymons1985 Yes, you're missing something: Remember, if a human brain can be restored to function with an intact personality after loss of all biological activity due to hypothermia, then an artificial brain can also "reboot" itself in the same way.

[puationstation]

it's been said... what we imagined as alien technology will come from within ourselves and we have to be prepared for it... big changes are coming...

[jaakkokuu]

sound with 480p and 720p has some noise. 360p sounds fine

[willw2]

wish you could post a transcript or notes....

[VoodooHack22]

that knowledge is a bad thing in evil hands

[artvladi]

I am very upset that nobody had scanned and modelled a full copy of a worm or a fly. It is doable now with little money and would provide a very valuable feasibility info.

[TutorialClarity]

You're listening to the future of mankind right here ladies and gentlemen. ;)

[darkstone243]

Could you be any less entertaining...I think not

[eyhexs]

i love it how towards the end he casually says that a softwared humanity would probably have a smaller enviromental footprint ':-|

how cool is that

[badmephisto]

I bet at least 95% of the Human Brain is concerned with things we do not care about at all from AI perspective: maintaining homeostasis, body/survival-related stuff, emotions... etc. I'm surprised this did not come up.

Also surprised that the body problem is down-played so much. A brain without the correct input it expects will most likely not work too well. And what is the simulation good for when we can't easily interpret the output?

They should really be starting with simpler systems

[dkt80]

@badmephisto: I agree 100% about the body problem (although it will be interesting to see if we can develop substitute sensors that the brain can understand - that has huge medical applications).

I think that it will be impossible to disentangle the supposed 95% of the brain that's working on basic bodily functions from the consciousness. I seriously doubt that consciousness is carried in only 5% of the brain. More likely it's an emergent phenomenon that doesn't have a well-localized processor.

[badmephisto]

@dkt80 Who cares about consciousness? The most amazing things our brain does happen unconsciously. Almost every single potential benefit of us having this technology comes down to having the intelligence part of it. The ability to take arbitrary data and make sense of it. The cortex does this. Sure, some old parts of the brain may do approximately similar things, but the hints that evolution has hit a jackpot with the cortex are overwhelming

[fuunguus]

@badmephisto

Heh, I'm sorry man but our brain ain't big because of some huge surge of new body functions 2 million years ago. Big brains are a common feat of social animals. The more social, the bigger the brain gets. 95% of the brain is not used for body functions, probably not even 10%. You see, managing body functions doesn't need much processing. The world around us on the other hand is very dynamic and need lots of processing, then it is the social part which concerns real intelligence.

[badmephisto]

@fuunguus 95% of the brain is not used for body functions, or other stuff we don't care about: I agree! (when we speak neuron by neuron). The cortex forms a huge part of the human brain but it is functionally very uniform, and is made up of NCCs that all look pretty much the same way! So you for me the entire cortex can be just as well treated as a few columns. Relative to this, everything else ancient is big, and unnecessary.

[TutorialClarity]

@badmephisto There is no "body problem" to begin with. Even if you had an extremely limited PNS with little to no afferent neurons. Over 100 years of neuroscientific research on neuroplasticity have shown that neurons in both the CNS and PNS adapt and are indeed plastic. Even if you were missing an entire limb of the PNS in the simulation, the neural structure would do exactly what it's best at....adapt and strengthen nearby signals. "Neurons that fire together, wire together."

[Ballero0]

@badmephisto all input and outputs in brain are very very simple, compared to brain itself. eg the "main" sense in humans, seeing is (about) just a damn lot of optical nerves.

Are you saying that if you could make a functional simulation of brain something like hearing would be any sort of problem to go around? no

[badmephisto]

@Ballero0 That is what I am saying. Say I give you functioning brain. You have your bundle of wires too. Now what? How do you properly drive the wires? How do you translate from physical world to activity on wires? How do you translate back and forth between neuronal language and the senses and the actuaries of a body? This problem is nontrivial to say the least.

[Ballero0]

@badmephisto if you can take an image from the brain itself to connect neurons i dont see the issue with these wires at all.

Basically computer calculates what kind of electric signals would this voice produce and transfers it into this program.

(you could also leave most of the wires disconnected. Who needs senses anyway? Pretty much you could have conversations with just few "muscles". Full speaking isnt very complex system either.)

[lostinspacex]

@badmephisto u are making a mistake thats the cerebellum functions

[Haengma]

At the very least there's implications for democracy when you are able to run off copies of people who're expected to vote a particular way....both if you deny them rights and if you allow them, there are issues.

[ZirconCode]

Best one Yet!

[otur1]

Why must so many Swedes pronounce all 'A' as in 'sarcasm', sounds STUPID!

[elobato]

@otur1 I guess you'd sound even more stupid if you try to speak Swedish.

[CognitiveNetwork]

@elobato Oh Yeah?

[founoe]

@otur1

It's called an "accent". Deal with it.

[glitchcore]

Brilliant!

[xavieramont]

Accelerando...

[jazzjay666]

Amazing research. Hope I'll still be here to see the results.

[LiquidZ2k]

Interesting subject, but it would be much more useful to read the content in the video at times.

[braingain1]

wow+++++

[getgad777]

Wow!