Even FT's own researchers admit it is regressive. Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
This is why the "Fair" Tax aka NASTI is a bad idea for the nation.
Think this through to see why the "embedded taxes" argument is false-- if one considers TAXES as embedded in the price item (rather than seeing them as something paid at DIFFERENT RATES by workers from emb. WAGES), If you state prices with tax will basically not rise because of "emb. taxes" removal-- thus your takehome pay stays the SAME as now--how are "illegals" paying taxes? Your check is the same, items cost same.
Answer: YOU are still paying, and MORE, by your paycheck staying the same.
@1969was1969 (cont) Think -- if you currently get a refund of some of the money deducted from your check, you will not get that money under the FT, your employer has to keep it in the "prices remain the same" scenario, it is still a cost to him otherwise. If you currently pay in an amount from your wages-- your employer would have to LOWER your wages by that amount under the "Fair" Tax, so the amount you have in the end would still be the same-- again, it is STILL a cost to him otherwise.
you currently pay the cost of the current system (employer side of fica=7.65% of all wages paid, corporate=15-35% of all profit, compliance costs with both sides of fica and corporate) embedded throughout the supply chain in the price of everything buy NOW (average 14%+ of price). you are not ADDING TO this price. you ELIMINATE this and replace it. consumers KEEP their whole paycheck (even poor pay 7.65% fica) + $209/month prebate for single adult. untax productivity and investment and... BOOM
The 999 or "Fair Tax" are not the answer to our economic problems. A "Flat Tax" of 15%-20% on AGI where everyone pays will simplify tax filing.
My 787 Flat tax plan at NoTaxUntilDeath [dot] com will fix and save Social Security retirement because everyone will either opt out of the retirement part of SS or contribute to their private retirement account.
7% of 1st, $150K to Social Security or private retirement account
No one would buy anything! Do they really want to turn the consumer economy into a non-consumer economy? How ridiculous can they get? Incredulous! I hate paying 7% tax on what I buy now!
@hlhronec Using that logic, no one would have a job if they have to pay about 23% of their earnings from their job to the Federal Government. Don't you hate having money taken away from your paycheck every time you see it?
The "Fair" Tax aka national Sales Tax- Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the federal taxes of those making from $15k-$150k a year while lowering the fed taxes of those making over $150k a year. This is not debateable, it is from supporters' own site and "research".
How do they claim the middle classes will still be better off, then? By asserting that if one's income drops from $35k to $10k a year, one is better off. Does any sensible person think that way? tinyurl 593htl, table 13
In Canada stuff costs way more. + taxes wouldn't INCREASE 30%. Because businesses don't have to pay income and payroll tax, cost of goods DECREASE and with a 23% National Sales tax you'd pay roughly the same that you pay for things right now + Now we can tax pimps, hookers, gamblers and illegals that work here AND bring the jobs back home.
There's over 13 TRILLION dollars of American money currently OUTSIDE of the states because if the people bring it in.. they get taxed on it.
Why not simply introduce a wealth tax on real estate and abolish the rest? I would need literaly 10 government officials to run it. Everyone estimates the value of their land/houses and based on that you pay ex. 3% a year tax. BUT if you estimate the value too low the government may buy it from you paying the price you indicated. People who don't own real estate would also "pay" it in a way cause obviously the rent would go up. So you have a computer system, 10 guys and a system you cant cheat!
Your portrayl of the "markup" is incomplete. Our economist concludes that, with a 12.5% embedded tax costs coming out through the effect of competition, the average price rise over today's prices would be less than 14%. That rise would be more than absorbed by rises in incomes due to the elimination of income and payroll taxes. In other words, consumption would remain strong even though the FairTax is a consumption tax.
The fair tax rate is only 23 percent. It's confusing but, You can calculate percentages two ways
Inclusive
You have $100 dollars and you have to give 23% in taxes. You would pay.......... $23 dollars.
Exclusive
You have $100 dollars. You pay $23 dollars in taxes and get to keep $77. So lets divide 23 by 77 and you get about 30%.
Income & payroll taxes are calculated inclusively, since the fair tax replaces the income & payroll taxes it is only fair to talk about it in inclusive terms.
2:35 these guys start talking as if this is going DRAMATICALLY change the cost of products, and then the other guys suggests that people are gonna fly over to Canada to get it cheraper. From what I've heard this is not the case. The cost of the product remains relatively the same.
So i had high hopes for this CNN clip, but we're still getting some spin here it appears
Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
Why was Aeruthus flagged? Trying to keep the the truth from getting out? It is not a 30% mark up. There are taxes in everything you buy already because businesses are taxed and they pass the cost on to the consumer. The way this guy phrases it and talks about some of the problem that may come from it tells me he either doesn't understand it or is trying to mislead people about what it does. Read the book "Fair Tax" I am not 100% it is the right system but it is better than what we have now.
It is not a thirty percent markup on everything you buy. Whoever watches this video do not let that comment confuse you. There are hidden taxes in the items we already buy that will be removed and then the twenty three percent will be added afterwards. READ THE BOOK FAIRTAX
They guy says he's going to take the spin out of it and then immediately goes into spin mode with the 30% mark up comment. Honestly there are pros and cons to everything and IMO there are more pros to this system than our current system. It's best to actually read about the Fair Tax yourselves then watching the news sadly.
The Tax that is imbedded in everything you does not effect the real price? The income increse you get every week would not effect the real price?, The Lack of the cost of complying with the Tax code would not effect the real price? Gettin the people that work for the IRS into a productive job would not effect the real price ? Politicians thrive on the ignorance of the masses! Would you know what you tax is with the fair tax ?
It is not a thirty percent markup on everything you buy. Whoever watches this video do not let that comment confuse you. There are hidden taxes in the items we already buy that will be removed and then the twenty three percent will be added afterwards. READ THE BOOK FAIRTAX
@Maxlorad actually it's both 23% and 30% depending on how you calculate the tax...tax inclusive or exclusive rate... so if you spend a total amount on some item TAX INCLUDED, 23% of that will be the tax itself... if an item costs some amount of money TAX EXCLUDED, the amount i need to add for the tax is 30% of that item...
Reading the Fairtax Book for proof is like reading Bernie Maddoff report to his investors -- total BULLSHIT.
Since Fairtax leaders know their own plan is a huge farce -- and is based on a magical massive tax on government -- they won't even have hearings under oath, much less pass it.
Fairtax is like a Magic Pony that shits gold. Sounds great -- but there won't be any gold coming out of that pony -- just horse shit.
After we get the FairTax, our standard of living will INCREASE for at least a couple reasons:
1. Current tax payers will pay LESS income tax because the revenue nuetral burden will be spread to illegals and crimnals as well.
2. Prices will likely drop because companies will no longer embed the expense of the tax consultants into their prices. Economic history shows profit margins remain steady (typically around 5 to 7 percent).
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
SCRAPP -- NO DUMB FUCH -- I WANT Fairtax to pass -- just like the leaders are scared shitless their little plan would even have a hearing under oath.
Fairtax leaders know its fucking bullshit -- they aren't trying to pass this shit. They dont fucking dare try to tell cities and states they will have huge fucking tax obligations under this crazy fake plan.
They don't want to have to tell renters, and cancer patients, about this huge tax. Its pure bullshit you dumb fuch - its a hoax.
Don't get me wrong -- Im for this fucking Fairtax hoax passing.
I WANT to see you dumb fucks try to tax every city and state a huge fucking sales tax, after you hid this fact in your fine print.
I want to see you dumb fucks try to tax renters and cancer victims and nursing home patients -- I want to see all this goofy fucking shit. I would fucking love it.
But Fairtx is so fucking goofy -- the bastards won't even have a hearing under oath. It's going no fucking where.
The people who that are against fairtax act are the ones who are desperately afraid that "people won't pay their taxes."
In other words, the people that don't want the fairtax act are lobbyists, government officials and extremely poor people who truly do not want to get a job . . .
But is this bill actually going to get passed? i have told a few people about it but I am wondering if it's actually going to work? What do you think?
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
Arguing over whether Fairtax could be 9% or 30% is like arguing over whether your Magic Pony shits gold, or shits silver.
Fairtax is based on absurdity -- absurd math, absurd "logic". Fairtax pretends they can collect well over a trillion dollars in sales tax FROM the government..
And that's just by taxing the federal government.
State, local, county government also have to pay this tax -- the worlds highest sales tax.
So it bullshit. It's pretend nonsense, and they know it
Fairtax is a Magic Pony that shits gold. You dumb asses that buy into it are stupid.
FT only works if the fuching government can pay itself a trillion in sales tax -- or more. IF thats not possible -- and its fuching not possibly you idiots -- then Fairtax is a dumb ass farce.
Here is a clue you idiiots, read the book page 148
"The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
Nonsense you fuching idiot suckers. Its not fuching possible you retards.
Fairtax is a big bucket of crap -- their math is bullshit lies. They plan on getting a trillion dollars in taxes by having the government paying itself.
Yes, its really that stupid.
No wonder these lying con artist say their tax can be 23% -- when real studies have shown a sales tax would have to be 65%.
Fairtax just lies its ass off to you dumb asses. Don't believe a word of it.
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
Fairtax removes nothing -- it adds. It adds 50,000 in sales tax to a 120K medical bill. It adds 500 billion in sales tax to what the Pentagon buys. It adds 500 month sales tax to 1200 month rent.
Just like all sales taxes add cost -- this would add cost. Only, it would be the highest sales tax on earth -- and it would be on things like rent, medical care, even the space shuttle, for NASA. Its a bunch of nonsense, utter nonsense.
You already pay tax for medical care. It's just an embedded tax so it's hidden from view, but its' still there. The price of everything goes down with the removal of the embedded tax and goes back up to about where it is now with the addition of the FairTax sales tax. It's not a tac that is added onto the current cost of everything because right now, everything already has a tax included in it's price.
Fairtax is a crock. Its not just a bad plan - its literally a farce. And they won't dare answer questions like -- where the hell are cancer patients going to even get 50,000 dollars to pay as sales tax on their chemo and surgery? This lunatic plan charges ALL -- repeat -- ALL medical cost the highest sales tax on earth. NO ONE is exempt. FT lunatics pretend they can collect all this tax from everyone. BULLSHIP.
If the Fair Tax added $50,000 to a medical bill, it would also be removing about the same amount from the bill because there would be no embedded tax in the price. If you buy an Ipod, you're paying the cost for the labor, payroll tax, the over head and the cooperate tax that Apple pays. FT says Apple don't have to pay all those taxes anymore and then Apple can lower it's price and still profit the same as they do today.
This is a revenue neutral system. There would be a 23% sales tax. However prices don't go up. Companies would be able to sell items for less (or the same after taxes) because they would not be paying embedded taxes and would pay employees less. Employees bring home the same amount b/c there are no income taxes.
Advantages
No $325 Billion IRS and tax code compliance fees
Attract thousands of foreign companies, creating jobs.
Large- - I read the book. I also read Boortz follow up "clarification". There is so much wrong with FT, its crazy. No, you don't keep your whole paycheck - Boortz admits now, that for prices not to go up, we all have to DONATE -- thats right DONATE the money we use to pay as taxes, to our employer. That's right. We donate it. THEN we pay the highest sales tax on earth. Its pure BS, and Boortz is fooling the stupid people.
Who is this guy? He needs to read the FairTax Book. He does a terrible job explaining the FairTax. I can do a better job and I'm just a fat guy sitting on a couch.
Currently, the dirt poor pay the exact same imbedded tax that is in everything they buy that Bill Gates pays. If Bill buys the same pad of paper that I buy, I pay the same 22% imbedded tax that is hidden in the cost of the paper that he does. My pad of paper doesn't cost less than his because I make less money. The FairTax gets rid of the imbedded tax of 22% and replaces it with a national sales tax of 23%. The paper's cost rises by 1% but my paycheck rises. Now I can buy 2 pads of paper!
This guy should probably read the book, or the actual proposed legislation. You don't get a 30% mark up, you get 23%. And it doesn't apply to those things we all need like food, water, basic essentials. Your health care and public service taxes are already embedded into the taxes we currently pay, which means with FT there is a status quo on that. It offers zero punishment on the poor,
It's 23%, not 30% and everything you buy would cost the same as it does now. The difference is that if you make $10 an hour and work 40 hours a week, you would take home $400. You would not be paying the current 33% in income taxes that we all do now.
You don't get a 30% markup, it's 23%. And it doesn't effect things like groceries. Health care and public service cost stay the same. And the tax only goes down to the poverty line, so the poor get zero punishment under the fair tax. Thanks to the embedded tax cost that would be cut from the supply side of most goods, a good number of products would retain their current cost, or drop. Indeed, very assholeish.
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
All the spin and lies in the world can't change the fact that fairtaxorg/BHI/supporters own "research" shows that this tax would raise the average effective federal taxes paid by middle class income earners. Paris Hilton gets a big tax cut (" A new Mercedes, wheee, that's hot!"), while the average middle class worker pays 10-100% more on average in federal taxes ("I think we'll be cancelling our trip to the beach this year, kids.").
What the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" really is is a huge tax cut for the very wealthy and a huge tax raise for the middle class-- got to THE SUPPORTING "FAIR TAX" SITE and look at THEIR OWN "RESEARCH"-- tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
By this idiot logic, no use charging corporations for ANYTHING since they pass the cost along.
But the real absurdity of the Fairtax is that it would be the highest sales tax ON THE FUTTING PLANET.
Imagine your ass paying the HIGHEST SALES tax on EARTH on your gasoline -- on your rent! - even on your CAR insurance.
This insane tax is bullshit. Most working people would pay triple the taxes they do now. I pity the fool that gets sick -- this idiot tax is on your medical costs too.
Anybody who pays any attention to MarkDouglasC is as crazy as he is. If you'll notice, he spams all FairTax video's. He is rude and obnoxious. Don't even try to explain anything to him. I've posted several FairTax video's and I guarantee he won't spam my video's!
This moron editor should punch himself in the face. IT cant possibly be 30. That 30% was to just replace income tax. Now -- they claim it will get rid of all these other taxes too. The math is insane. To replace all these taxes, the rate would have to be 50 or 60%, and it would be on new houses - on medical cost, which is insane.
Taxes brought against corporations are always recycled to the consumer same as government programs like Medicare. Business make X amount of income or cease business that is just the way it is. A consumption tax would cut a lot of red tape and cut government expenses spent on collection.
Lower the rate substantially and get rid of the prebate. To say it abolish the IRS is a lie, it just retasks them, who do you think would handle the prebates and monitor businesses? Ask your rep how many FedGov employees would be unemployed by FairTax reform, I bet the number is 0.
The problem with ridding the bill of the prebate, no matter how low the rate goes, is that it makes the FairTax a flat tax, which is regressive (causes poor people to pay more taxes). It would retask the IRS in a way, however 140 million tax collection points (tax-paying individuals) are harder to keep an eye on than 20 million collection points under FairTax (retail and service businesses). With 133 pages as opposed to 60,000 now the bureaucracy would reduce its 10 billion budget substantially.
Thier budget and jobs will not be cut at all, you have far too much optimism in your government. If the wealthy spend more they will pay more so how would a low flat rate hurt the poor? I am not a single female with child so I do not get more back from a refund than I paid, how is that fair to me or anyone else? It will not take politicians long to modify the PREBATE to curry voter favor too, just like the income tax. Lose the prebate + AMAHP FedGov dregs.
The poor get hurt because most low-income families pay no income tax now. HR 25 replaces the income tax among others so if they pay any part of this tax on neccessities (most of their expenditures)they pay more under FairTax than now, making it regressive. The system is unfair to you now. The poor will always pay less than us. HR 25 does not remove the responsibility of citizens to watch federal spending. It just makes it easier to see so that we may actually become outraged as we should be now.
USMC -- the poor would pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax under this idiot FT on their RENT -- yes RENT. On their gasoline -- on their utility bill. THe worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- its FUTTING crazy as hellllllo. Wake up.
We pay 18 cents for federal gas tax now -- under FT, 1.50 or more. This idiot FT would be on medical cost too -- if you have a heart attack, and have 100K in bills - your ass gets 30,000 in SALES tax.
Worlds HIGHEST sales tax on gas, medical, rent, car insurance -- INSANE
If you research the FairTax past a CNN clip you'll see the states collect the FairTax like they collect taxes now. But yes, they'd probably be re-assigned to other departments as baby boomers retire.
One issue with the guest (since its CNN that doesnt surprise me). He said it would be an additional 23% sales tax. That is wrong. He failed to explain that the embedded tax in products of about 22% that is eliminated when FairTax is instituted. Levy a 23% FairTax on those retail products and you come back to almost the same price. Also wrong: this can happen. 54 cosponsers in the house, more than any other tax bill ever! Let you voice be heard. Enact the FairTax now!
(The 22% embedded tax was derived by numerous economists from all parts of the political spectrum and verfied by Nobel Laureate Economist Milton Friedman.) See more at FairTax(dot)ORG
1) Estate taxes, CIT, and capital gains taxes do not directly effect the price of goods if at all, and
2) Income Taxes are paid in at diff levels-- a company employing 10 people who all pay a federal effective rate of 8% from their wages cannot lower costs as much as a company employing 10 people who pay an effective fed rate of 18% from their wages,
3)For the total PIT and FICA costs in goods to be removed by company, they must pay all employes current net, not gross pay.
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Even FT's own researchers admit it is regressive. Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
This is why the "Fair" Tax aka NASTI is a bad idea for the nation.
Diskatopia 1 week ago
He also misses the point about bringing jobs back here because USA would have the best plan for business.
brazzini 1 month ago
It is not a mark up! READ THE BOOK, don't be a boob! It CAN work.
brazzini 1 month ago
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Think this through to see why the "embedded taxes" argument is false-- if one considers TAXES as embedded in the price item (rather than seeing them as something paid at DIFFERENT RATES by workers from emb. WAGES), If you state prices with tax will basically not rise because of "emb. taxes" removal-- thus your takehome pay stays the SAME as now--how are "illegals" paying taxes? Your check is the same, items cost same.
Answer: YOU are still paying, and MORE, by your paycheck staying the same.
1969was1969 2 months ago
@1969was1969 (cont) Think -- if you currently get a refund of some of the money deducted from your check, you will not get that money under the FT, your employer has to keep it in the "prices remain the same" scenario, it is still a cost to him otherwise. If you currently pay in an amount from your wages-- your employer would have to LOWER your wages by that amount under the "Fair" Tax, so the amount you have in the end would still be the same-- again, it is STILL a cost to him otherwise.
1969was1969 2 months ago
you currently pay the cost of the current system (employer side of fica=7.65% of all wages paid, corporate=15-35% of all profit, compliance costs with both sides of fica and corporate) embedded throughout the supply chain in the price of everything buy NOW (average 14%+ of price). you are not ADDING TO this price. you ELIMINATE this and replace it. consumers KEEP their whole paycheck (even poor pay 7.65% fica) + $209/month prebate for single adult. untax productivity and investment and... BOOM
sucracristo 2 months ago
The 999 or "Fair Tax" are not the answer to our economic problems. A "Flat Tax" of 15%-20% on AGI where everyone pays will simplify tax filing.
My 787 Flat tax plan at NoTaxUntilDeath [dot] com will fix and save Social Security retirement because everyone will either opt out of the retirement part of SS or contribute to their private retirement account.
7% of 1st, $150K to Social Security or private retirement account
8% of AGI over $150K to personel Income Tax
7% Net Business Tax
Niftytax 3 months ago
No one would buy anything! Do they really want to turn the consumer economy into a non-consumer economy? How ridiculous can they get? Incredulous! I hate paying 7% tax on what I buy now!
hlhronec 6 months ago
@hlhronec Not true! Read the plan for yourself instead of listening to what others say. Google it!!!
TROBTLA 6 months ago
@hlhronec Using that logic, no one would have a job if they have to pay about 23% of their earnings from their job to the Federal Government. Don't you hate having money taken away from your paycheck every time you see it?
Thatmakessense356 6 months ago
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The "Fair" Tax aka national Sales Tax- Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the federal taxes of those making from $15k-$150k a year while lowering the fed taxes of those making over $150k a year. This is not debateable, it is from supporters' own site and "research".
How do they claim the middle classes will still be better off, then? By asserting that if one's income drops from $35k to $10k a year, one is better off. Does any sensible person think that way? tinyurl 593htl, table 13
FairTaxisaLie 7 months ago
Russia adopted it in 2001 and it dramatically increase government revenue. it would also destroy the bureaucratic administration the IRS.
lvll138inrs 8 months ago
In Canada stuff costs way more. + taxes wouldn't INCREASE 30%. Because businesses don't have to pay income and payroll tax, cost of goods DECREASE and with a 23% National Sales tax you'd pay roughly the same that you pay for things right now + Now we can tax pimps, hookers, gamblers and illegals that work here AND bring the jobs back home.
There's over 13 TRILLION dollars of American money currently OUTSIDE of the states because if the people bring it in.. they get taxed on it.
kurolap 8 months ago
Why not simply introduce a wealth tax on real estate and abolish the rest? I would need literaly 10 government officials to run it. Everyone estimates the value of their land/houses and based on that you pay ex. 3% a year tax. BUT if you estimate the value too low the government may buy it from you paying the price you indicated. People who don't own real estate would also "pay" it in a way cause obviously the rent would go up. So you have a computer system, 10 guys and a system you cant cheat!
mindOFAlibertarian 8 months ago
Your portrayl of the "markup" is incomplete. Our economist concludes that, with a 12.5% embedded tax costs coming out through the effect of competition, the average price rise over today's prices would be less than 14%. That rise would be more than absorbed by rises in incomes due to the elimination of income and payroll taxes. In other words, consumption would remain strong even though the FairTax is a consumption tax.
jbennettatty 8 months ago
Fairtax is total bullshit and balderdash.
Total. It's a farce, a hoax, a pile of bullshit.
ItchMyFoot 9 months ago
The fair tax rate is only 23 percent. It's confusing but, You can calculate percentages two ways
Inclusive
You have $100 dollars and you have to give 23% in taxes. You would pay.......... $23 dollars.
Exclusive
You have $100 dollars. You pay $23 dollars in taxes and get to keep $77. So lets divide 23 by 77 and you get about 30%.
Income & payroll taxes are calculated inclusively, since the fair tax replaces the income & payroll taxes it is only fair to talk about it in inclusive terms.
hrsweat0097 9 months ago
Comment removed
hrsweat0097 9 months ago
He has not read the FairTax. They have misrepresented this. FarTax is good for everyone. Ihave read it
SamSlay46 1 year ago
@SamSlay46 How? Why is it good for everyone?
GentlemanThunder7 9 months ago
2:35 these guys start talking as if this is going DRAMATICALLY change the cost of products, and then the other guys suggests that people are gonna fly over to Canada to get it cheraper. From what I've heard this is not the case. The cost of the product remains relatively the same.
So i had high hopes for this CNN clip, but we're still getting some spin here it appears
EchoMike03 1 year ago
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Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
urgener 1 year ago
Why was Aeruthus flagged? Trying to keep the the truth from getting out? It is not a 30% mark up. There are taxes in everything you buy already because businesses are taxed and they pass the cost on to the consumer. The way this guy phrases it and talks about some of the problem that may come from it tells me he either doesn't understand it or is trying to mislead people about what it does. Read the book "Fair Tax" I am not 100% it is the right system but it is better than what we have now.
frankiegmh 1 year ago
I love the FairTax.
I fear we'll never see it because politicians give up way too much power by passing it.
somedudeinva 1 year ago 8
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It is not a thirty percent markup on everything you buy. Whoever watches this video do not let that comment confuse you. There are hidden taxes in the items we already buy that will be removed and then the twenty three percent will be added afterwards. READ THE BOOK FAIRTAX
Aeruthus 1 year ago 4
They guy says he's going to take the spin out of it and then immediately goes into spin mode with the 30% mark up comment. Honestly there are pros and cons to everything and IMO there are more pros to this system than our current system. It's best to actually read about the Fair Tax yourselves then watching the news sadly.
mbanderson83 1 year ago
The Tax that is imbedded in everything you does not effect the real price? The income increse you get every week would not effect the real price?, The Lack of the cost of complying with the Tax code would not effect the real price? Gettin the people that work for the IRS into a productive job would not effect the real price ? Politicians thrive on the ignorance of the masses! Would you know what you tax is with the fair tax ?
flmcon 1 year ago
It is not a thirty percent markup on everything you buy. Whoever watches this video do not let that comment confuse you. There are hidden taxes in the items we already buy that will be removed and then the twenty three percent will be added afterwards. READ THE BOOK FAIRTAX
Maxlorad 2 years ago 11
@Maxlorad actually it's both 23% and 30% depending on how you calculate the tax...tax inclusive or exclusive rate... so if you spend a total amount on some item TAX INCLUDED, 23% of that will be the tax itself... if an item costs some amount of money TAX EXCLUDED, the amount i need to add for the tax is 30% of that item...
ANTIMKrebirth 7 months ago
Reading the Fairtax Book for proof is like reading Bernie Maddoff report to his investors -- total BULLSHIT.
Since Fairtax leaders know their own plan is a huge farce -- and is based on a magical massive tax on government -- they won't even have hearings under oath, much less pass it.
Fairtax is like a Magic Pony that shits gold. Sounds great -- but there won't be any gold coming out of that pony -- just horse shit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
After we get the FairTax, our standard of living will INCREASE for at least a couple reasons:
1. Current tax payers will pay LESS income tax because the revenue nuetral burden will be spread to illegals and crimnals as well.
2. Prices will likely drop because companies will no longer embed the expense of the tax consultants into their prices. Economic history shows profit margins remain steady (typically around 5 to 7 percent).
urgener 2 years ago
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SCRAPP -- NO DUMB FUCH -- I WANT Fairtax to pass -- just like the leaders are scared shitless their little plan would even have a hearing under oath.
Fairtax leaders know its fucking bullshit -- they aren't trying to pass this shit. They dont fucking dare try to tell cities and states they will have huge fucking tax obligations under this crazy fake plan.
They don't want to have to tell renters, and cancer patients, about this huge tax. Its pure bullshit you dumb fuch - its a hoax.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Don't get me wrong -- Im for this fucking Fairtax hoax passing.
I WANT to see you dumb fucks try to tax every city and state a huge fucking sales tax, after you hid this fact in your fine print.
I want to see you dumb fucks try to tax renters and cancer victims and nursing home patients -- I want to see all this goofy fucking shit. I would fucking love it.
But Fairtx is so fucking goofy -- the bastards won't even have a hearing under oath. It's going no fucking where.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Please go wash your mouth out. I wonder is paying you? I see the same posts under different names, Phonies are usually easy to spot.
scrapps01234 2 years ago
There are some goof balls in Texas who started this hoax -- one donated 22 million. Seems some con artist took his money and told him it was real.
Its not fucking real. The business I showed it to, literally laughed at it.
No major corporation - NOT ONE -- has signed on to this hoax.
Its a fucking hoax dumb fuck -- it pretends to tax the fucking govermment.
No wonder they hide this shit and avoid hearings under oath -- its pure fucking bullshit. Google Fairtax Absurdity.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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Fairtax is PURE bullshit. Its a massive NEW tax (which they hide in fine print) on the government.,
Everything from police departments to the military to NASA to Medicaid -- have to pay massive taxes.
IN fact Fairtax only gets about half its income from "People" these goofy bastards pretend to get half of the revenue FROM the government.
Funny shit -- -and Fairtax said "only people pay taxes" but then pretend this crap.
Check out the fine print.
Its utter fucking nonsense.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
Corportations are not for this Fairtax -- that should tell you something. It would get rid of all their taxes, yet they are NOT for it.
That should tell you how goofy Fairtax is, when the very people who would get a free ride from it, are NOT for it.
Why aren't corporations for it? Because its a piece of NONSENSE. ITs absurd bullshit.
Retailers are against it too. Retailers say it would destroy our economy.
Google "Fairtax + Absurdity"
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Strange....just spoke with the largest independent oil and natural gas producer in the US and they are in fact PRO FairTax!!
Speak to any business and they will tell you they are for the FairTax.
Even H&R Block has no problem with the FairTax!!
12FlyMe as well as all his other ID's just spout the same cr@p over and over....this should tell you something!!!
The very people on youtube who are against it are the same person!!
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
The people who that are against fairtax act are the ones who are desperately afraid that "people won't pay their taxes."
In other words, the people that don't want the fairtax act are lobbyists, government officials and extremely poor people who truly do not want to get a job . . .
Aries041487 2 years ago
Even those who don't want to work can live tax free.....it'll be at the poverty level...but everyone is treated the same.
Just tell them about the prebate and they're for it!! They see it as free money
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
But is this bill actually going to get passed? i have told a few people about it but I am wondering if it's actually going to work? What do you think?
Aries041487 2 years ago
If enough people want it.....then yes!
We the people hold the power.
With the amount the government is growing, spending and screwing us over.....it's the bill and the plan that will help fix this country.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Well how do I do my part to get this bill passed? Do you have any suggestions?
Aries041487 2 years ago
@Aries041487 Write your congressman, OVer and over an over!!
flmcon 1 year ago
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
timjobes 2 years ago
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Arguing over whether Fairtax could be 9% or 30% is like arguing over whether your Magic Pony shits gold, or shits silver.
Fairtax is based on absurdity -- absurd math, absurd "logic". Fairtax pretends they can collect well over a trillion dollars in sales tax FROM the government..
And that's just by taxing the federal government.
State, local, county government also have to pay this tax -- the worlds highest sales tax.
So it bullshit. It's pretend nonsense, and they know it
NeilTaxCon 2 years ago
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Fairtax is a Magic Pony that shits gold. You dumb asses that buy into it are stupid.
FT only works if the fuching government can pay itself a trillion in sales tax -- or more. IF thats not possible -- and its fuching not possibly you idiots -- then Fairtax is a dumb ass farce.
Here is a clue you idiiots, read the book page 148
"The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
Nonsense you fuching idiot suckers. Its not fuching possible you retards.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
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Read page 148 --- Fairtax Book " the federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer.""
Not only does FT pretend to get a trillion FROM the federal government paying itself -- the same tax is on state and local government too.
Hey you dumb fuck -- how the hell will government get the money to pay this tax.
YOu fucking idiot. Its a fucking farce you moron.
That's why real studies have shown a NST to replace all others would be over 65% -- they don't fucking pretend to
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
Fairtax is a big bucket of crap -- their math is bullshit lies. They plan on getting a trillion dollars in taxes by having the government paying itself.
Yes, its really that stupid.
No wonder these lying con artist say their tax can be 23% -- when real studies have shown a sales tax would have to be 65%.
Fairtax just lies its ass off to you dumb asses. Don't believe a word of it.
FairtaxFraud 2 years ago
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Quick test for Fairtax lunatics.
WHich tax plan has government PAY itself a 300 billion dollar SALES tax on medicare?
Thats right - under the lunatic Fairtax, even medicare payments would have to pay SALES tax on TOP of what they pay now.
Thats right.
Its pure bullshit of course -- but Fairtax math is BASED on this kind of bullshit.
You can't fuching collect huge sales taxes FROM the government you idiots. The fuching government is PAYING them
And yes, thats the Fairtax con game
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
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Fairtrax is bullshit. Pure pullshit. Its a con game, not a serious plan. They don't intend to pass this crap -- they know its a crock of nonsense.
For ONE example, it pretends to collect the worlds HIGHEST sales tax FROM the government.
Not just the federal government either -- -but all levels -- it pretends to collect a huge sales tax on city government, state, county
These lunatics PRETEND to be able to collect SALES taxes on medicaid.
Thing about that for a minute.
ItsBS.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
abnrgrtr 2 years ago
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Which looney bird seriously believes all wage earners -- ALL of us -- will voluntarily DONATE any money we save on our paycheck back to our employer?
Are you nuts?
SO we donate that money to our employer -- and THEN we pay the highest sales tax on earth , on our rent? On our utiltiies, medical cost, everything?
Bull. Boortz is a lying sack, and you should learn the real plan. Not the bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
You FT moonies better study the plan. Boortz has "clarified" his looney tune farce.
Now he admits that for the FT math to work -- all wage earners have to "voluntarily" donate the savings from no taxes, back to the employer.
Thats right -- you DONATE all the savings back to your employer, so he can lower prices.
And then -- after you donate all that back -- you pay the world''s highest sales tax.
So no - you don't already pay taxes like this dufus. Learn the Boortz bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Funny. I own a small business and I embed the tax I have to pay into the price of my products.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Fairtax removes nothing -- it adds. It adds 50,000 in sales tax to a 120K medical bill. It adds 500 billion in sales tax to what the Pentagon buys. It adds 500 month sales tax to 1200 month rent.
Just like all sales taxes add cost -- this would add cost. Only, it would be the highest sales tax on earth -- and it would be on things like rent, medical care, even the space shuttle, for NASA. Its a bunch of nonsense, utter nonsense.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
You already pay tax for medical care. It's just an embedded tax so it's hidden from view, but its' still there. The price of everything goes down with the removal of the embedded tax and goes back up to about where it is now with the addition of the FairTax sales tax. It's not a tac that is added onto the current cost of everything because right now, everything already has a tax included in it's price.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Fairtax is a crock. Its not just a bad plan - its literally a farce. And they won't dare answer questions like -- where the hell are cancer patients going to even get 50,000 dollars to pay as sales tax on their chemo and surgery? This lunatic plan charges ALL -- repeat -- ALL medical cost the highest sales tax on earth. NO ONE is exempt. FT lunatics pretend they can collect all this tax from everyone. BULLSHIP.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
If the Fair Tax added $50,000 to a medical bill, it would also be removing about the same amount from the bill because there would be no embedded tax in the price. If you buy an Ipod, you're paying the cost for the labor, payroll tax, the over head and the cooperate tax that Apple pays. FT says Apple don't have to pay all those taxes anymore and then Apple can lower it's price and still profit the same as they do today.
jboritzki 2 years ago
This is a pretty bad critique of the idea.
This is a revenue neutral system. There would be a 23% sales tax. However prices don't go up. Companies would be able to sell items for less (or the same after taxes) because they would not be paying embedded taxes and would pay employees less. Employees bring home the same amount b/c there are no income taxes.
Advantages
No $325 Billion IRS and tax code compliance fees
Attract thousands of foreign companies, creating jobs.
Read the book
largermanthanyou 3 years ago
Large- - I read the book. I also read Boortz follow up "clarification". There is so much wrong with FT, its crazy. No, you don't keep your whole paycheck - Boortz admits now, that for prices not to go up, we all have to DONATE -- thats right DONATE the money we use to pay as taxes, to our employer. That's right. We donate it. THEN we pay the highest sales tax on earth. Its pure BS, and Boortz is fooling the stupid people.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
Who is this guy? He needs to read the FairTax Book. He does a terrible job explaining the FairTax. I can do a better job and I'm just a fat guy sitting on a couch.
Gaspumpblues 3 years ago
Currently, the dirt poor pay the exact same imbedded tax that is in everything they buy that Bill Gates pays. If Bill buys the same pad of paper that I buy, I pay the same 22% imbedded tax that is hidden in the cost of the paper that he does. My pad of paper doesn't cost less than his because I make less money. The FairTax gets rid of the imbedded tax of 22% and replaces it with a national sales tax of 23%. The paper's cost rises by 1% but my paycheck rises. Now I can buy 2 pads of paper!
jboritzki 3 years ago
This guy should probably read the book, or the actual proposed legislation. You don't get a 30% mark up, you get 23%. And it doesn't apply to those things we all need like food, water, basic essentials. Your health care and public service taxes are already embedded into the taxes we currently pay, which means with FT there is a status quo on that. It offers zero punishment on the poor,
esiahc 3 years ago
He made a mistake. The host said he would be taxed on milk and other foods? But you wont be taxed on ANY neccesities of life. Or used goods
The2ndAmendmentGuy 3 years ago
Get rid of the taxes and raise the price of everything 30%, yeah that makes alot of sense! Rublicans are such assholes!
BucksPagesDotCom 3 years ago
if a company isn't paying payroll and business taxes then those saving will be passed on to the consumer due to competition.
Also it would be better if it was 40% but not on food, fuel, utility bills, and kids clothes.
See the personal expenditure tax which is a better idea. it is on youtube.
Vaserlan 3 years ago
It's 23%, not 30% and everything you buy would cost the same as it does now. The difference is that if you make $10 an hour and work 40 hours a week, you would take home $400. You would not be paying the current 33% in income taxes that we all do now.
jboritzki 3 years ago
You don't get a 30% markup, it's 23%. And it doesn't effect things like groceries. Health care and public service cost stay the same. And the tax only goes down to the poverty line, so the poor get zero punishment under the fair tax. Thanks to the embedded tax cost that would be cut from the supply side of most goods, a good number of products would retain their current cost, or drop. Indeed, very assholeish.
esiahc 3 years ago
best us economic idea in ages.
freeinternetnow 3 years ago
Why doesn't he just call it the "Jesus tax" just as cheap and misleading but more to Huck's style.
jpbalkenende 3 years ago
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From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
Diskatop 3 years ago
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All the spin and lies in the world can't change the fact that fairtaxorg/BHI/supporters own "research" shows that this tax would raise the average effective federal taxes paid by middle class income earners. Paris Hilton gets a big tax cut (" A new Mercedes, wheee, that's hot!"), while the average middle class worker pays 10-100% more on average in federal taxes ("I think we'll be cancelling our trip to the beach this year, kids.").
"Fair" Tax = FAIL
Diskatop 3 years ago
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What the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" really is is a huge tax cut for the very wealthy and a huge tax raise for the middle class-- got to THE SUPPORTING "FAIR TAX" SITE and look at THEIR OWN "RESEARCH"-- tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
Diskwin 3 years ago
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By this idiot logic, no use charging corporations for ANYTHING since they pass the cost along.
But the real absurdity of the Fairtax is that it would be the highest sales tax ON THE FUTTING PLANET.
Imagine your ass paying the HIGHEST SALES tax on EARTH on your gasoline -- on your rent! - even on your CAR insurance.
This insane tax is bullshit. Most working people would pay triple the taxes they do now. I pity the fool that gets sick -- this idiot tax is on your medical costs too.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Anybody who pays any attention to MarkDouglasC is as crazy as he is. If you'll notice, he spams all FairTax video's. He is rude and obnoxious. Don't even try to explain anything to him. I've posted several FairTax video's and I guarantee he won't spam my video's!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago 2
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This moron editor should punch himself in the face. IT cant possibly be 30. That 30% was to just replace income tax. Now -- they claim it will get rid of all these other taxes too. The math is insane. To replace all these taxes, the rate would have to be 50 or 60%, and it would be on new houses - on medical cost, which is insane.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Mark, if you designed your MarkTax that way, fine. However the FairTax was designed from the beginning to replace all those.
fairtaxhtown 3 years ago
Taxes brought against corporations are always recycled to the consumer same as government programs like Medicare. Business make X amount of income or cease business that is just the way it is. A consumption tax would cut a lot of red tape and cut government expenses spent on collection.
AKlover 3 years ago
@AKlover
Typical response of a conservative who doesn't know what he's talking about yet likes to explain it to us all in 'simple terms'.
Price elasticity calls you on your bullshit.
Could you people talking out of your ass about economics at least do a little research on it?
jpbalkenende 3 years ago
Lower the rate substantially and get rid of the prebate. To say it abolish the IRS is a lie, it just retasks them, who do you think would handle the prebates and monitor businesses? Ask your rep how many FedGov employees would be unemployed by FairTax reform, I bet the number is 0.
AKlover 4 years ago
The problem with ridding the bill of the prebate, no matter how low the rate goes, is that it makes the FairTax a flat tax, which is regressive (causes poor people to pay more taxes). It would retask the IRS in a way, however 140 million tax collection points (tax-paying individuals) are harder to keep an eye on than 20 million collection points under FairTax (retail and service businesses). With 133 pages as opposed to 60,000 now the bureaucracy would reduce its 10 billion budget substantially.
USMCboy1818 4 years ago
Thier budget and jobs will not be cut at all, you have far too much optimism in your government. If the wealthy spend more they will pay more so how would a low flat rate hurt the poor? I am not a single female with child so I do not get more back from a refund than I paid, how is that fair to me or anyone else? It will not take politicians long to modify the PREBATE to curry voter favor too, just like the income tax. Lose the prebate + AMAHP FedGov dregs.
AKlover 4 years ago
The poor get hurt because most low-income families pay no income tax now. HR 25 replaces the income tax among others so if they pay any part of this tax on neccessities (most of their expenditures)they pay more under FairTax than now, making it regressive. The system is unfair to you now. The poor will always pay less than us. HR 25 does not remove the responsibility of citizens to watch federal spending. It just makes it easier to see so that we may actually become outraged as we should be now.
USMCboy1818 4 years ago
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USMC -- the poor would pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax under this idiot FT on their RENT -- yes RENT. On their gasoline -- on their utility bill. THe worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- its FUTTING crazy as hellllllo. Wake up.
We pay 18 cents for federal gas tax now -- under FT, 1.50 or more. This idiot FT would be on medical cost too -- if you have a heart attack, and have 100K in bills - your ass gets 30,000 in SALES tax.
Worlds HIGHEST sales tax on gas, medical, rent, car insurance -- INSANE
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
If you research the FairTax past a CNN clip you'll see the states collect the FairTax like they collect taxes now. But yes, they'd probably be re-assigned to other departments as baby boomers retire.
fairtaxhtown 3 years ago
Go FairTax!!!
Jennarosity 4 years ago 2
One issue with the guest (since its CNN that doesnt surprise me). He said it would be an additional 23% sales tax. That is wrong. He failed to explain that the embedded tax in products of about 22% that is eliminated when FairTax is instituted. Levy a 23% FairTax on those retail products and you come back to almost the same price. Also wrong: this can happen. 54 cosponsers in the house, more than any other tax bill ever! Let you voice be heard. Enact the FairTax now!
USMCboy1818 4 years ago
(The 22% embedded tax was derived by numerous economists from all parts of the political spectrum and verfied by Nobel Laureate Economist Milton Friedman.) See more at FairTax(dot)ORG
USMCboy1818 4 years ago
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That is incorrect:
1) Estate taxes, CIT, and capital gains taxes do not directly effect the price of goods if at all, and
2) Income Taxes are paid in at diff levels-- a company employing 10 people who all pay a federal effective rate of 8% from their wages cannot lower costs as much as a company employing 10 people who pay an effective fed rate of 18% from their wages,
3)For the total PIT and FICA costs in goods to be removed by company, they must pay all employes current net, not gross pay.
Diskwin 3 years ago