@hellburger99 I consider "unschooling" a curriculum where "uniformity of thought and ability" wasn't the idealized output. School's purpose is to ensure everyone is the same when they reach the end, at the expense of those who would excel if given an opportunity. Home schooling doesn't necessarily offer such a thing, especially in a state where home-school curriculums are highly regulated. But in the end, I would consider "home schooling" and "unschooling" separate, though not necessarily so.
I sympathize with the assertion that schools are prisons on many levels, not the least of which is the consequences I face should I choose not to teach my child a state-approved curriculum.
you really have to have an open mind and think about it. if you really believe school is necessary for one to be "educated" and "succesful" then how was it that this perfect place was created by someone who never attended it. isnt it ironic that such a "smart" person would need to make the only place to make "smart" people? think about the faulty logic here. how can this make sense
"schools are like prisons" oh man it is SO refreshing to hear someone else say this. Its exactly how I felt when I was in school and I tried to tell my parents and ANYBODY how I felt and no one took me seriously. No control over my own body or life, I agree! I felt so oppressed. People always argue with me when I talk about how horrible the institutions of schools are and that Id never force that on my children. So many people think kids NEED school for socialization. Closed minded people.
Standardized education does have its failings, but how are children going to learn basic life skills if no one is there to teach them? Children are not adults. They do not have the cognitive abilities of an adult. Yes, some children can be very mature for their age, but they can never have the faculties of an adult and it is foolish to treat them as such. Children don't need "control", but they do need direction and guidance.
@hellburger99 you, sir, are the perfect example of the ageism and ignorance that lives on in the hearts of most people. "children" are just young people. people whos bodies arent as tall or built as an "adult". we all live through life and learn what is necessary to keep living it. if u are close minded enough to say that u dont get the basics of math english and science, then it's probably because the person never had the reason to pursue it in the first place. i mean come on, u use google too.
@iminlov3 ""children" are just young people. people whos bodies arent as tall or built as an "adult". " And their brains are as developed, either.
"if u are close minded enough to say that u dont get the basics of math english and science, then it's probably because the person never had the reason to pursue it in the first place."
Not trying to be a dick, but I honestly have no idea what you are trying to convey here.
Schools have a set curriculum because there are something that it's important for everyone to learn. It's important that everyone have a basic understanding of mathematics, history, science and literature. What child really says "Gee, I'd love to play video games all day long, but I really should go teach myself algebra"? Impossible? No, but it's pretty unlikely.
@hellburger99 "Schools have a set curriculum because there are something that it's important for everyone to learn." Who decides what is important?
"Impossible? No, but it's pretty unlikely." Actually, in a literary society, children are naturally pressured to read, and they are also adjacently curios to when they see older persons do so. However, the the trouble with unschooling is that, in a child's life, mathematics and language arts (especially mathematics) are less important because
@Nellsing children, by law, are made economically dependent upon their parents. This means that: they do not need to apply mathematical or linguistic skills as much, since they do not need to compete for it in the market (only their parents do), so there is less pressure to do so. School doesn't simply add pressure--it adds artificial force to learn something irrelevant to their dependent lives, and ends up molding them rather than nurturing their unique growth, with both weaknesses AND strength
@Nellsing And their unique curiosity. What we make are drones in (current) school. In EDUCATION we make the-person-which-is-in-himself-enhanced-according-to-his-own-judgment. Anyway, because by law children cannot emancipate himself without say of an adult, as the adult by law keeps him or her dependent, if we take them out of school, of course their mathematics and language may be deterred or delayed. A market FOR these, not BY these, is all we need.
@hellburger99 It's really interesting to me that you think that a child's wanderings won't lead him to learn things like math, science, history, and literature. Especially when you remove such silly distractions as cable television and video games. Enabling your child to learn as he chooses doesn't mean refusing to teach your child that he must work for reward and accept consequences, which is what you seem to be implying.
@erinleland As a child, I hated math. Still do. If left to my own devices, sure, I probably would have gotten interested in literature, science and maybe history, but I honestly don't believe that I would ever have studied math had I not been 'forced' to. Also, I didn't see anything about 'removing distraction' in any of the unschooling vids I watched. I understand that these kids aren't 'running wild', but it seemed like parents let them do anything within reason, including tv and games.
@hellburger99 Kids are a lot smarter than parents seem to give them credit for. They will learn math... maybe not specifically complicated calculus or trig computations... but basic maths, ratios, probabilites, boolean logic. Any child who wants to answer the burning question all kids seem to ask, "Why??" is going to find himself learning math. I hated geometry, calc, trig, but I use math every day of my life. The first time he wants to build something or cook something he's going to ask.
@hellburger99 ...if he doesn't ask, I have no problem with him not being forced to learn it. With regard to distractions, am not suggesting that parents actually don't let their children watch TV or play video games, I only meant to comment to the fact that if those things were not constant distractions, kids would be more curious about the world around them and less curious about the Kardashians. I think this would be a better environment in general, especially education is involved.
@erinleland I don't entirely disagree with you. Thank you for clarifying your position. But let me pose this to you: What if a child only wants to watch TV? What if they take no interest in learning math, science, etc.? Wouldn't you then have to enforce some sort of guidelines? A curriculum? Wouldn't that be more like "home schooling" than "unschooling"?
We wonder why commonly adults raised in these institutions tend to be passive thinkers, lack critical thinking skills and have such low expectations of themselves and their leaders. They are trained not to think unapproved thoughts, not to be interested in unapproved subjects, not to want to learn facts or skills, not to apply critical thinking to the institution they are forced into etc. It is damn near cultish. We are trained to accept authority no matter how useless or unnecessary.
ever watch the movie Accepted? Now there's a school I'd love to attend. Which is more fun a swivle chair or a stationairy one? in my head it works....
i really appreciate the distinctions between the two "ways" and have a preference for the latter (unschooling). and making judgments, criticisms, and evaluations of either will never bring a richer understanding of what is observable from what happens when 'ones "education" is enacted this way or that way... i am feeling very concerned and hope there can be dialogues that will enrich our understanding of this topic.
i see unschooling as possibly presenting a great opportunity of changing lives in a way that is absolutely unpredictable ... allowing room for a type of diversity in human culture that has very nearly been crushed from existence by our current dominator culture. with that much written, i'd request that any judgments for or against institutionalized to be left behind... this will only create opposition (for or against) unschooling. there is a deep seated need for acceptance for 'all ways'.
@hellburger99 I consider "unschooling" a curriculum where "uniformity of thought and ability" wasn't the idealized output. School's purpose is to ensure everyone is the same when they reach the end, at the expense of those who would excel if given an opportunity. Home schooling doesn't necessarily offer such a thing, especially in a state where home-school curriculums are highly regulated. But in the end, I would consider "home schooling" and "unschooling" separate, though not necessarily so.
erinleland 1 year ago
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erinleland 1 year ago
Comment removed
erinleland 1 year ago
I sympathize with the assertion that schools are prisons on many levels, not the least of which is the consequences I face should I choose not to teach my child a state-approved curriculum.
erinleland 1 year ago
you really have to have an open mind and think about it. if you really believe school is necessary for one to be "educated" and "succesful" then how was it that this perfect place was created by someone who never attended it. isnt it ironic that such a "smart" person would need to make the only place to make "smart" people? think about the faulty logic here. how can this make sense
iminlov3 1 year ago
"schools are like prisons" oh man it is SO refreshing to hear someone else say this. Its exactly how I felt when I was in school and I tried to tell my parents and ANYBODY how I felt and no one took me seriously. No control over my own body or life, I agree! I felt so oppressed. People always argue with me when I talk about how horrible the institutions of schools are and that Id never force that on my children. So many people think kids NEED school for socialization. Closed minded people.
Aprilshowersss 1 year ago
Standardized education does have its failings, but how are children going to learn basic life skills if no one is there to teach them? Children are not adults. They do not have the cognitive abilities of an adult. Yes, some children can be very mature for their age, but they can never have the faculties of an adult and it is foolish to treat them as such. Children don't need "control", but they do need direction and guidance.
hellburger99 1 year ago
@hellburger99 you, sir, are the perfect example of the ageism and ignorance that lives on in the hearts of most people. "children" are just young people. people whos bodies arent as tall or built as an "adult". we all live through life and learn what is necessary to keep living it. if u are close minded enough to say that u dont get the basics of math english and science, then it's probably because the person never had the reason to pursue it in the first place. i mean come on, u use google too.
iminlov3 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@iminlov3 ""children" are just young people. people whos bodies arent as tall or built as an "adult". " And their brains are as developed, either.
"if u are close minded enough to say that u dont get the basics of math english and science, then it's probably because the person never had the reason to pursue it in the first place."
Not trying to be a dick, but I honestly have no idea what you are trying to convey here.
hellburger99 1 year ago
Schools have a set curriculum because there are something that it's important for everyone to learn. It's important that everyone have a basic understanding of mathematics, history, science and literature. What child really says "Gee, I'd love to play video games all day long, but I really should go teach myself algebra"? Impossible? No, but it's pretty unlikely.
hellburger99 1 year ago
@hellburger99 "Schools have a set curriculum because there are something that it's important for everyone to learn." Who decides what is important?
"Impossible? No, but it's pretty unlikely." Actually, in a literary society, children are naturally pressured to read, and they are also adjacently curios to when they see older persons do so. However, the the trouble with unschooling is that, in a child's life, mathematics and language arts (especially mathematics) are less important because
Nellsing 1 year ago
@Nellsing children, by law, are made economically dependent upon their parents. This means that: they do not need to apply mathematical or linguistic skills as much, since they do not need to compete for it in the market (only their parents do), so there is less pressure to do so. School doesn't simply add pressure--it adds artificial force to learn something irrelevant to their dependent lives, and ends up molding them rather than nurturing their unique growth, with both weaknesses AND strength
Nellsing 1 year ago
@Nellsing And their unique curiosity. What we make are drones in (current) school. In EDUCATION we make the-person-which-is-in-himself-enhanced-according-to-his-own-judgment. Anyway, because by law children cannot emancipate himself without say of an adult, as the adult by law keeps him or her dependent, if we take them out of school, of course their mathematics and language may be deterred or delayed. A market FOR these, not BY these, is all we need.
Nellsing 1 year ago
@hellburger99 It's really interesting to me that you think that a child's wanderings won't lead him to learn things like math, science, history, and literature. Especially when you remove such silly distractions as cable television and video games. Enabling your child to learn as he chooses doesn't mean refusing to teach your child that he must work for reward and accept consequences, which is what you seem to be implying.
erinleland 1 year ago
@erinleland As a child, I hated math. Still do. If left to my own devices, sure, I probably would have gotten interested in literature, science and maybe history, but I honestly don't believe that I would ever have studied math had I not been 'forced' to. Also, I didn't see anything about 'removing distraction' in any of the unschooling vids I watched. I understand that these kids aren't 'running wild', but it seemed like parents let them do anything within reason, including tv and games.
hellburger99 1 year ago
@hellburger99 Kids are a lot smarter than parents seem to give them credit for. They will learn math... maybe not specifically complicated calculus or trig computations... but basic maths, ratios, probabilites, boolean logic. Any child who wants to answer the burning question all kids seem to ask, "Why??" is going to find himself learning math. I hated geometry, calc, trig, but I use math every day of my life. The first time he wants to build something or cook something he's going to ask.
erinleland 1 year ago
@hellburger99 ...if he doesn't ask, I have no problem with him not being forced to learn it. With regard to distractions, am not suggesting that parents actually don't let their children watch TV or play video games, I only meant to comment to the fact that if those things were not constant distractions, kids would be more curious about the world around them and less curious about the Kardashians. I think this would be a better environment in general, especially education is involved.
erinleland 1 year ago
@erinleland I don't entirely disagree with you. Thank you for clarifying your position. But let me pose this to you: What if a child only wants to watch TV? What if they take no interest in learning math, science, etc.? Wouldn't you then have to enforce some sort of guidelines? A curriculum? Wouldn't that be more like "home schooling" than "unschooling"?
hellburger99 1 year ago
We wonder why commonly adults raised in these institutions tend to be passive thinkers, lack critical thinking skills and have such low expectations of themselves and their leaders. They are trained not to think unapproved thoughts, not to be interested in unapproved subjects, not to want to learn facts or skills, not to apply critical thinking to the institution they are forced into etc. It is damn near cultish. We are trained to accept authority no matter how useless or unnecessary.
leavesof3 1 year ago
ever watch the movie Accepted? Now there's a school I'd love to attend. Which is more fun a swivle chair or a stationairy one? in my head it works....
glowingdarkmatter25 2 years ago
I really like what he has to say. Thanks for posting this. And it's very true that it's time for a change.
WiseFlow28 2 years ago 2
It is time for change.
SpicyHam 2 years ago
Obama never talks about this type of change.
74u73hjd 2 years ago
thats because he doesnt want change.
forthetroll 2 years ago
probably
74u73hjd 2 years ago
i really appreciate the distinctions between the two "ways" and have a preference for the latter (unschooling). and making judgments, criticisms, and evaluations of either will never bring a richer understanding of what is observable from what happens when 'ones "education" is enacted this way or that way... i am feeling very concerned and hope there can be dialogues that will enrich our understanding of this topic.
bbbleaver 3 years ago
i see unschooling as possibly presenting a great opportunity of changing lives in a way that is absolutely unpredictable ... allowing room for a type of diversity in human culture that has very nearly been crushed from existence by our current dominator culture. with that much written, i'd request that any judgments for or against institutionalized to be left behind... this will only create opposition (for or against) unschooling. there is a deep seated need for acceptance for 'all ways'.
bbbleaver 3 years ago 2
@bbbleaver i cant even imagine how great and amazing that diversity would be. it seems like a distant dream in my head, but def a possible reality.
iminlov3 1 year ago