The Unanswered Question 1973 5 The XXth Century Crisis Bernstein Norton

[composergabe]

@lesmizzle let us not confuse opinion with fact. we are all, of course free to like or dislike a piece of music, however we must realize that these opinions are generated through our own experience and hold no "gravity" to use your word, for the rest of us. Tonal implications can be made while dividing the octave in anyway you please, it would be harder with just a division of two, but possible. Although we must realize that these implications are bound to be understood more or less by someone

[lesmizzle]

I have to be honest; I think this Mahler piece is painfully boring. It sounds like a student exercise at voice leading straight out of "Harmonielehre". Connect-the-dots.

[cagin]

@lesmizzle Technically what you say might be true, one can agree with you just by listening the piece. Still; IMHO, this movement has immense dept and expression and I think, in general, expression and power of a piece is not defined only by it's complexity in harmonic (or other) sense(s). And one should also consider that this is the final movement of a 4 movement symphony where the preceding movements are highly complex (especially the 1st movement which is highly regarded by Alban Berg)

[lesmizzle]

@cagin Actually, I found the the harmony to be on the complex side (in terms of linear progressions), which is why I mention Schoenberg's "Harmonielehre" (theory of harmony). My opinion is that it does not sound as though it is born out of the inner ear as a point of origin and as such it stands in line with many faulty detours for 20th century music. Also, I think using "complex" as a fundamental criteria is flawed. Complexity as a primary goal is usually ill-fated.

[marioguidoscappucci]

It's not all true?

[Dan474834]

He certainly knew how to finish a lecture. Those final reluctant strings, each of which less audible leading to the final acceptance, followed by the silent rolling of credits.

Genius, both him a Mahler.

[kratanuva725]

Hmm, it's interesting because in my own serial music I actually wrote a row outlining 4 augmented triads.

[kratanuva725]

Actually, I would go forward and say that the only divisions of the octave in which tonality is not possible is in 2,3,4,6, and 8 tone equal temperaments. 13 tone equal temperament can sound very tonal, believe it or not.

[cnmaster01]

@kratanuva725 well it's tonality of a sort. I use 8-TET quite frequently, and it's very pleasant at times. The rest are of course patterns that occur in 12-TET, so you have we have a bias against them, though Slonimsky has made some cool 2 tone music.

[kratanuva725]

@cnmaster01 I have actually changed my mind since I wrote that.

Really, any of those tunings could be tonal like you say.

This is a really cool song in 8-TET watch?v=HvDEoZ4LIdc

[marcohorowitz8]

the greatest musical personality of the 20th century.

[bob32f32]

thanks so much!

[cagin]

@bob32f32 ur welcome, enjoy, best.

[FreesoundMusic]

Thank you so much, for posting this! I read the book of this series more than 20 years ago (in German), and can now follow the original - this is fantastic!

[cagin]

@FreesoundMusic ur welcome, enjoy. best.