The case with Uhtman ibn Affan was not his decission rather it was a decission taken by every Companion of the Prophet. Also it wasn't the year he died but around 1-1 1/2 a year after the death of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him by Abu Bakr and Umar may Allah be pleased with them.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Many false Prophets though he speaks of, so he refers back to what God says about testing the Prophets. Am the most upfront Christian you would ever speak to. Is their ground for Muhammad to be considered a Prophet yes. But unlike you the bible does not teach of a last Prophet, it speaks of more Prophets arising. But my problem with Muhammad is you guys saying he is the one spoken of by Moses, when that prophecy refers to Christ. If this was not the claim, then I would readily
@Adriangrosvenor That Prophecy can in no way refer to christ. The scripture clearly speaks of being put to death if he is not spoken in my name. In character Isa and Musa are different, Isa is more gentle and Musa was more rough. Musa had a law that he implemented and Isa didn't. I call you to you saying you would "readily" believe him.
@FATAL12SKILLZ yes Muhammad could be a Prophet as the bible supports More Prophets arising. But from what I have seen I believe many Muslims twist the mans words or don't fully understand him. Just like Many Christians twist the words of Christ, Paul, David and the Prophets and do not understand them, so do Muslims from what I have seen.
@Adriangrosvenor were not written 300 years after christ. I'm telling you that the earliest Gospels available (full ones) are around 2-3 hundred years from the time they were written. I believe the gospel was written at the time of Jesus peace be upon him! That is my belief but we don't have that gospel. To me the closest ones is the Dedache (look it up) and the Gospel of James.
@LucasI3434 Thats completely different, Harry potter was a series brought up in the 20th-21st century and promoted as a novel filled with fiction. While the bible (concerning Some basic points of history) has to do with a culture of a people. Which is not a reason to deny this culture.
If a man was in a position of wealth & good health, and lost all his wealth an became unwell then returned back to his position of wealth and good health,
Would you class this as going backwards ? or would you say the original position is the successful position.
The road to success would be classed as going forward, if you disagree with the scenario theirs no point in a reply.
If a man or woman steals an item that doesn't belong to them, would you class the action of cutting off his right hand so that he can't work or write a successful option?
The road to success would be classed as going forward into enlightenment, not vengeful mutilation.
I can tell you don't have the insight to produce a rational analogy, so don't bother replying.
You see? You don't posses the insight to be able to connect the dots. That's why Islamic countries fail proven by the UN Human Development Index. UAE tops their ranking by coming in at No. 32! Islamic thinking = regression into retardation of human development and advancement, including spirituality. The 6th Commandment reads: "Thou shalt not kill / murder" so there goes the death penalty for rape out the window and Muhammad said not to dispute People of the Book!
Hahaha you can't quote verses here and there and use them out of context for your own point of view, you rather take it as a whole or don't (alternative: believe we evolved from monkeys or the big bang theory what ever floats your boat). Educate yourself if you want to no more about the Abrahamic religions then find and read the ORIGINAL Torah scriptures, Gospel scriptures, Psalms scriptures and the Holy Qur'an.
And even a dipshit like you can put the pieces of the puzzle 2geva
As an infidel, I already am free but you are held hostage to a fraudulent death cult. Btw, since I haven't insulted you, I'd appreciate the same respect in return - if you're capable. Otherwise don't despoil my right to comment again.
Haha you couldn't insult me if you tried you speak pure squabble id have to be as much as an idiot as you to take your comments on board, you speak just words it all goes over my head, if ive hit a nerve then you need to take a look at your own views, opinions and beliefs, before speaking out on others.
@wiseeyes001 Naturally it goes over your head b/c you aren't even allowed to question or reason for yourself. I don't need to stoop to or rely on childish name-calling or sheer irrationality.
I know, it's an incomprehensible human tragedy. Muslims have NEVER been told the truth and still let themselves remain deceived after 1400 years. The reference is given to verify authenticity and please feel free to copy and paste it to spread the Truth and hopefully wake some of them up to the extent of which they've been conned.
@Adriangrosvenor Learn a little thing about Islamic Traditions, we are not those who just take face value the narrations and say "This is what it is" nor do we accept someone who says this is a tradition when in all means he could just be lying and slapping a hadith source. Which the haters of Islam have done. First of all we have a tradition of Isnad (chain of transmission) and this chain of transmission has to go back to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. And as well ...
@FATAL12SKILLZ When you produce Muhammad's miracles we can go on to have a debate. I don't waste time debating fraudulent claims. I have nothing against Muslims, I admire the will to submit themselves to a higher power. And God will judge based on their knowledge. But lets be real here, Muhammed is not the one spoken of by Moses. He did nothing Moses did. Just laying claim to a Hebrew is wrong, considering he is of the seed of Ishmael. So lets not debate until we bring reason to the table
@Adriangrosvenor That was not the discussion in hand. You totally took the conversation in a totally other direction. what do you mean "lets be real here"?! When the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him fulfilled every criteria and he is a man that is extremely similar to the Prophet Moses peace be upon him. The other thing there is a prophecy about the nation of Ishmael as well, what will they be? A Great Nation and the bible says a great nation is one who obeys God. When did the nation...
@FATAL12SKILLZ What I mean by lets be real here is that nothing validates Muhammad's claim to being the one spoken of by Moses. So seeing he is laying claim to that he is a false Prophet. What does Muhammad have in common with Moses??? that one has me shocked, their is nothing about Muhammad close to Moses. Yes Ishmael became a great Nation, your Arabs, what don't you get about that, don't you understand your Persians, you should be proud of Cyrus. Really a great Nation is one which obeys
@Adriangrosvenor of Ishmael become great? peace be upon him. When The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him came, than the transformation of the Arabian peninsula and the whole world took place. As well, The similarities in the speech of the bible is strikingly similar are you telling me an illiterate Arab can capture the speech of Allah! The speech of Allah cannot be replicated and the Quran is inimitable.
@FATAL12SKILLZ God? So what is the point, they are Many God fearing great nations, does that validate any Prophet coming forward claiming he is the one spoken of by Moses?? When Mohammed came he slaughtered the Christians living in that area, what great transformation is that?? What similarities in speech, Moses was educated, Muhammad was illiterate. What speech of Allah? God use an ass to talk to someone, does the ass replicate the speech of God?? What miracle of the moon splitting? Are you
@Adriangrosvenor Muhammad peace be upon him did not slaughter any christians, so that is a straight fabricated lie. What does Moses and Muhammad not have in common? They both gained there prophethood at the age of 40, Muhammad and Moses peace be upon him both did major Hijra (migration) so much so that the migration of Moses is a big part of the Jewish tradition and our history starts with the Migration of the Messenger of Allah. How about the fact that both of them implemented laws.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Yes history testifies that Muhammad killed the Christians, burning down Jewish lands and striking fear to those who refused to accept Islam. This is not a lie, to say that Muhammad did not kill Christians and Jews however is a lie. Moses did not gain Prophet hood at 40, he is considered a Prophet when he went to Israel and stopped an Egyptian from beating him. Migration those not qualify as anything to list under comparison between them. Paul traveled a lot, should I then call
@Adriangrosvenor No thats not true, Prophet hood was given at 40, and Muhammad peace be upon him did kill Jews for a few reasons because the JEWS fought him (what will he turn the other cheek) but he never fought Christians to kill them (other than the romans but that was WAR) and he also killed the Jews because of Treason. Acts 7:23-24 says when Moses was age 40 when he fought that egyptian so even considering your history it is true.
@Adriangrosvenor as in both of them had laws and were the authority over there community, how about the fact that they both waged war against the disbelievers? They both did Jihad (this is considered Jihad what moses did). Allah spoke to Moses straight forward, and Allah talked to Muhammad peace be upon him in the isra wal meraj. They both have a strong message of Monotheism and they both took there people out of that darkness. Did not Bani Israel take the calf?
@FATAL12SKILLZ Paul the one spoken of by Moses. Moses brought the law (commandments) and sacrificial system. This is in no relation to Muhammad's words. Muhammad distorts this message, don't you know that the Prophet was going to speak according to what the law of God said and fulfill the sacrificial law which Moses started. God spoke to Samuel, those that make him the one?? Samuel promoted Monotheism, those this make him the one? You said he split the moon, I asked was their anyone who
@Adriangrosvenor Yes it does! The Jews do consider Samuel a Prophet and so does the Muslims. We call him Samood. anyone who was on the moon? Was their anyone on the sea when it got split? no they were outside but there were people who saw the moon being split on Earth, and it was split from Earth by the will of Allah. He pointed his finger and split it bithnillah.
@FATAL12SKILLZ crazy? Who split the moon? Mohammad? Dude don't be a lunatic and bring folly. Is their any man who can go on the moon and bring witnesses and testify that the moon was spit when he was on it? Thats crazy, until you bring someone who lived on the moon when it was split then only then can that be called a miracle. Oh i forgot you don't know about Persons having to be their and in the location of the miracle for it to be taken seriously. Its a requirement of God. Where are the
@Adriangrosvenor Listen carefully, I didn't say the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him went on the moon and split it with his own hands, rather he split it by the will of Allah while he was on the Earth. And Go look at Nasa pictures of the moon, there is a fault line all across the moon showing that it did split once upon a time. And I can give the same claim, what eye witness proof do you have about the sea splitting?
@FATAL12SKILLZ was on the moon who could testify that the moon was split when they were living their? Until someone who lived on the moon came to earth at the time Muhammad performed the Moon splitting and said it was split, only then would it be considered. But sadly no one was on the moon and came to earth bearing news of the moon splitting. God says if its not established by eye witnesses then it can't be considered. Narration is not a miracle. Have you heard Muhammad spoke?
@Adriangrosvenor If people SAW the Moon split does that mean the moon didn't split? Nobody was on the sea when it split they were outside of it. Similarly the moon was split by the will of Allah. Did you ever hear Jesus? And not even Christians say paul is the one spoken by Moses! Paul spoke completely contrary to the law of Moses peace be upon him. Rather he is even completely opposite to the Disciples and Jesus himself. Jesus said follow the law, Paul said we don't need it.
@FATAL12SKILLZ lol Paul said don't follow the law. Who thought you that fake "Christians". Just because Christian sects bend the words of Paul so they can get away with their little lies they spin those not make it Paul fault.
@Adriangrosvenor Paul clearly rejected circumcision which is part of the covenant and law of Abraham and many other laws he held contrary to. And he wasn't a hebrew (Which you said because Prophet Muhammad is an ishmaeli who is a clear brother of the israelis he can't be a Prophet how can you say Paul who is even further away from that) it is either Jesus or Paul who? Both would be wrong due to your interpretation
@FATAL12SKILLZ Their is a hurricane in my area, so as soon as its over I will respond. But a quick note on Paul, Paul rejected circumcision because after Jesus died their was no need for it. Did you not know that God predicted the end of Israel? Jesus prophesied that Israel would fall and be destroyed. Paul was a Jew(Judah descendant) did you not know this? He just persecuted those who accepted Christ. I never said Muhammad could not be a Prophet, bible those no teach a Prophet can only
@FATAL12SKILLZ come out of Israel, I said Muhammad could not be a Prophet based on what your pushing. Your the ones claiming Muhammad said he was the one Prophesied by Moses. If he did that then he cannot be a Prophet because he has no evidence in his corner. As all the Prophets pointed to Jesus. Bible those teach that more prophets will arise, it those not teach a last Prophet though. It teaches how to tell someone is a Prophet also. Anyway as soon as the hurricane is over will respond
@Adriangrosvenor There is LESS proof that it is Jesus peace be upon him. Because that prophet would be executed and killed. The Prophet Muhammad was not killed by execution rather he died normally or he died by poison (poisoned and Allah preserved him until he finished his message) but Jesus peace be upon him wsa crucified (according to the Christians) so Moses and Muhammad are more alike and that is evidence, more so than Jesus and Moses peace be upon them.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Muhammad was poisoned by a Jew. Jesus had to die, it was predicted from Genesis. Did you not read what God said to Adam. Jesus is like unto Moses. He led Israel out of spiritual captivity. He performed Miracles, and became the sacrifice. I highly doubt Muhammad ever said that he was the Prophet spoken of by Moses, he would have been foolish to lay claim to such things. Muhammad never had direct contact with God, Gabriel gave him his messages. No miracles
@Adriangrosvenor Moses was never sacrificed Muhammad didn't say it, rather Allah said that he was foretold in the scripture and this is one of the clearest prophecies. There was most likely many more (and there is many more I haven't mentioned yet) Yes Gabriel did give him the message but he went on the night journey to Jerusalem and than from there was lifted up into the 7 heavens to talk to Allah about the command of prayer.
@FATAL12SKILLZ God said Muhammad was foretold in the scriptures, Is that your scriptures? Their are no prophesies in the bible about Muhammad. I have saw the so-called Prophesies and when they are examined in their original context then we see no trace of evidence of Muhammad. The Gospels were written at the time of the disciples, Who do you think wrote the writings of Paul? . Who do you think wrote the Gospels? Who do you think wrote Isaiah? you need to stop guessing when it comes to the
@Adriangrosvenor I showed you the one of the inhabitants of Kedar, there is also a prophecy in the song of Solomon and Paul was a heretic. We know the galatians were written by paul. But the Gospels we don't have a single gospel that we still have from the time of the writers of the gospels. Not one.
@FATAL12SKILLZ What you have is Paul reaffirming the Law of God, and the disciples constantly saying keep the commandments. But because Paul writings continue to reaffirm this, Many "Christians" scholars have spread that lie, so that they can run around screaming Grace, when Christ never said he came to Remove the commandments. Don't believe me, tell any Christian Paul says to keep the commandments and they immediately say Paul was wrong or that he meant something else.
@Adriangrosvenor he gave him the organization of the Quran and it was recited. And than those recitors they memorized from listening. The Arabs had a strong oral tradition and they memorized everything, this is clear when you see there tribal lineages and how bedouins would memorize Poetry and 1000s and 1000s years of lineages and we still have them today. They have a culture of memorization. Anyway Uthman put dots and iotas on the ayat so non arabs can read them and he made one codex
@Adriangrosvenor Yes he was poisoned by the Jew, but he didn't die. How much people have you see who got poisoned and lived 3-5 years after that? Because that is what happened so the poisoning was not a direct cause to his death. Rather Allah perserved him and than took him and honored him by allowing the poison to kill him as well. Thus he became Shaheed (A witness/Martyr) and what is better than a martyr??
@FATAL12SKILLZ God allowed a King to have more than one wife. He eventually died from the poison. If he was indeed the one Prophesied why could he not heal himself? Don't you know the one prophesied was going to heal all manner of sickness? Paul got bitten by a deadly snake, shook it off, and lived. This Prophet Muhammad could not. Shows he was not the one Prophesied. Your not presenting truth, show me one verse where Muhammad says with his own mouth that he was the one Prophesied.
@Adriangrosvenor Jesus didn't heal people by his own will. Allah did, and he said it him self. As well, the poison was the cause of his death 3 years after, in those 3 years he had his most harshest and successful conquests and battles. So the poison was not wearing him down. Rather read the narrations of his death, the angel of Death gives the choice of death for all Prophets and the Prophet Muhammad said he wants to be with the highest companion. If he chose to be with us than Allah...
@FATAL12SKILLZ Jesus healed people, rather by God or not he did it. Did Muhammad heal anyone? Was their any one who arose that healed the people as predicted? I can speak to you on the Quran, because I am Christian does not mean am not going to take a look into it and see what it is saying. After all am commanded to prove all things. And Muhammad case must be proved. I can accept that Muhammad brought the teachings of God to some extent to the people. But adding the Prophecy is to far out.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Jesus healed people, rather by God or not he did it. Did Muhammad heal anyone? Was their any one who arose that healed the people as predicted? I can speak to you on the Quran, because I am Christian does not mean am not going to take a look into it and see what it is saying. After all am commanded to prove all things. And Muhammad case must be proved. I can accept that Muhammad brought the teachings of God to some extent to the people. But adding the Prophecy is to far out.
@Adriangrosvenor Yes there was people he healed, one man's eye popped out in war and he put it back in his socket, and than another man got sick that his eyes became shut and he put his saliva on his eyes and than he became healed. Another man's leg was broken and he healed his leg. Bringing back from the dead? That is done only by the will of Allah. That does in no way mean Jesus is Allah because there were people before him who brought people back from the dead according to the bible.
@FATAL12SKILLZ And when we change a verse(of the Quran) in place of another, and Allah knows the best of what he sends down, they (me the disbeliever that Muhammad is saying these things) say You are but a Muftari (liar) Nay but most of them know not Surah 16:101
Surah 2:106 "If We abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We shall replace it with a better one or one
similar."
Give me a break, you guys are good at bending the man's words, I suggest you speak to your Iman and ask him
@Adriangrosvenor Iman? Iman means faith I think you mean Imam. You are the twister of the bible and bend and twist it with your whims and desires. Rather Allah has said in Surah Baqarah [002:079] And misery is for (their scholars,) those who write a book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allah!” In return for that, they acquire a petty price. Woe to them for what they write with their hands! Woe to them for what they earn with it!
@Adriangrosvenor Iman? Iman means faith I think you mean Imam. You are the twister of the bible and bend and twist it with your whims and desires. Rather Allah has said in Surah Baqarah [002:079] And misery is for (their scholars,) those who write a book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allah!” In return for that, they acquire a petty price. Woe to them for what they write with their hands! Woe to them for what they earn with it!
@FATAL12SKILLZ about these things. First no one can change the words of God, is reportedly what was said, then "when we change a verse of the Quran" so is Muhammad a mad man? Or are the ones who twisted his words the liars? Again I highly doubt Muhammad went around claiming things you guys placed in his mouth. They twisted his words and said he said this and that. When its not even so.
@FATAL12SKILLZ The Quran was not even written when Muhammad was alive, so by your definition if a book is written after someone has died, then its not qualified, while the Biblical scriptures were all written when the disciples and their associates were alive. And the bible does not claim to be like your Quran. So i might have just throw out Muhmmad's teaching because facts are he was not alive when it was written. Your Quran was written by Uthman Ibn Affan 20 years after Muhammad died.
@Adriangrosvenor It may have been written but we don't have a single one of those copies today. And you are wrong, the first Quran was written the year the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him died. But the Quran is not a written book, the Quran means recitation and it is a recital that is perserved in the hearts of men. And the Quran is mutawattir. What does mutawatir mean? It means that it is narrated so much times from so many different people and places that no one could've possibly invented..
@FATAL12SKILLZ The first Quran was not written the day Muhammad died, all their was that existed was stories passed down and thought about what Muhammad said. Then their were some fragments written on pieces of thin paper, they sought out to gather the teachings of Muhammad and compiled them together. History shows the first Quran was compiled together approximately 20 years after his death. It took them that long to gather all the information, and most of those alive with him was at war
@Adriangrosvenor Are you creating a fabricated story. Can I have a request from you? Can we be truthful and investigate the matter fully? The Quran is to be memorized not written, read the Quran. It says this is a recital, a revelation. The Muslims memorized the Quran. How little do you know history. There were around 700 HAFIDH (people who memorized the Quran) and at the War of Apostasy (a lot of Muslims apostatized after the death of Prophet Muhammad) A lot of them died fighting these wars
@FATAL12SKILLZ and they feared that those men would die. Bible is also written on the hearts of men, I also can recall many verses thought to me and pass them down to my kin. I never said the Quran was invented though, you don't see me making that claim, how could I have many muslim friends and think that it was invented? Am saying you can't say that some verses were not altered and that Muhammad ever claimed to be the one said by Moses. The bible gospels were not written 2-3 hundred
@Adriangrosvenor so that was the time they feared. When was the wars of apostasy? It wasn't the time of Uthman it was the time of Abu Bakr, and the wars of apostasy took place 1/12 years after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. At that time Abu Bakr and Umar (who also memorized the Quran in whole) compiled the first Quran. Now know this, the Prophet Muhammad every year during ramadan would go over the Quran with the angel Gibrael and the year he died he went over it two times. He gave him..
@Adriangrosvenor so that was the time they feared. When was the wars of apostasy? It wasn't the time of Uthman it was the time of Abu Bakr, and the wars of apostasy took place 1/12 years after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. At that time Abu Bakr and Umar (who also memorized the Quran in whole) compiled the first Quran. Now know this, the Prophet Muhammad every year during ramadan would go over the Quran with the angel Gibrael and the year he died he went over it two times. He gave him..
@FATAL12SKILLZ He gave him the organization of the Quran and he recited it with him. The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him taught his companions. And it went down. Now these days the BIG Quraa (people who memorize and recite the Quran with correct pronunciation) have a chain of transmission that lead all the way back to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. This is much stronger than to have an actual written copy. Bro, I know christians don't say the gospels...
@Adriangrosvenor no one could invent it. So it is a fact that the Quran was the same one revealed on his heart and spoken by his tongue. Although we DO have mushafs (written Qurans) that date back to the time of the late sahaba and late tabaieen (students of the sahaba i.e the companions) although the earliest Gospels (full gospels) that are here now are around 2-3 hundred years after the gospels were supposedly written. So the Quran has much more of a stand.
@FATAL12SKILLZ years after, that's a distortion of history, because when the Jews persecuted the Christians they were quoting the words of Christ and Paul. What you are speaking is Roman catholic doctrine that makes that claim which allows them to claim that Peter left the church to them. Which is false as Jesus never left Rome in charge of any doctrine. The bible existed when Rome took over the church and they have distorted history to make fraudulent claims. Paul was no heretic.
@Adriangrosvenor Paul is a clear heretic point blank period, the disciples didn't accept him and that is why he had a difference with James and said they taught a different gosepl. What rubbish! Show me where paul said keep the commandments rather than in your heart. But I know Jesus peace be upon him would never say don't keep the commandments.
@FATAL12SKILLZ I believed many Muslims twisted the words of Muhammad, putting things in his mouth that he never claimed. So in essence Muslim maybe to blame for Muhammad not being considered a Prophet, because by saying he was the one spoken of by Moses that automatically makes him a false Prophet. If he ( I highly doubt he did) did not mention that he would then still have ground to be considered a Prophet. But you guys killed what the man probably really thought.
@Adriangrosvenor Where is your proof for this conjecture? We have narrations from his time and from the time of disciples but you don't have a single gospel that was from the time of the disciples or the time of the writers of the disciples or even a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the gospel! So how are you going to lay such idiotic claims when I can scrutinize the bible in a more harsher way.
@Adriangrosvenor We don't need the approval of any body from another group. Rather we present the truth, and it is your decission to take it, we present the facts, it is your decission to take it. The Quran confirms the scripture, the scripture doesn't confirm the Quran. Rather half the rabbis in Hijaz accepted Islam without being put to the sword and one of the most prominent among them was Abdullah ibn Salam
@FATAL12SKILLZ Don't come with God said, and this scribe said. Show me Muhammad saying with his own words. I am the one Prophesied. I highly doubt he did, it is my belief that your Iman's lied to you and twisted your scripture. Muhammad never said most of those things you put in his mouth.
@Adriangrosvenor Don't try to talk to a MUSLIM about his Quran, no the books of the past are with Allah and no one can ever change them, they are preserved with Allah but that which the people of the book had was changed after Allah broguht the Quran because they were abrogated. Like many abrogated verses in the Quran that were not in there any more (other than the ones Allah left in the Quran by his will and wisdom)
@FATAL12SKILLZ By the admission of those who compiled the Quran they said they could change the verses, even though Muhammad had died, they lay claim that they could. Well yes I meant Imam. I don't twist the bible, am Christian, I do as it says. I have to keep the commandments, abstain from unclean meats, and preach the word of God. My faith is similar to yours, except In the aspect of Christ. I have not heard of Jesus speaking of Muhammad, but he says that more Prophets will arise.
@Adriangrosvenor Give your proof if ye be truthful. Where did it say they could change the verses? Okay think about it like this. The bible says A PROPHET will rise. Now this PROPHET rose and he said he is the FINAL ONE. That means he brought that from Allah. If he brought that from the authority of God and the signs are clear wouldn't you accept it?
@Adriangrosvenor allowed it. But the verse talking about the prophet will be put to death means Execution, capital punishment. It doesn't have to be a verse rather there is so much Allah does not need to say "It is here and there and this one" But there is a Prophecy that is spoken about in the Quran from the tongue of Jesus. And this prophecy deals with parkyletos. Than you Christians will say "it says spirit" but it doesn't say holy spirit and a spirit in aramaic can be a human to.
@FATAL12SKILLZ I believed many Muslims twisted the words of Muhammad, putting things in his mouth that he never claimed. So in essence Muslim maybe to blame for Muhammad not being considered a Prophet, because by saying he was the one spoken of by Moses that automatically makes him a false Prophet. If he ( I highly doubt he did) did not mention that he would then still have ground to be considered a Prophet. But you guys killed what the man probably really thought.
@Adriangrosvenor There is LESS proof that it is Jesus peace be upon him. Because that prophet would be executed and killed. The Prophet Muhammad was not killed by execution rather he died normally or he died by poison (poisoned and Allah preserved him until he finished his message) but Jesus peace be upon him wsa crucified (according to the Christians) so Moses and Muhammad are more alike and that is evidence, more so than Jesus and Moses peace be upon them.
@Adriangrosvenor Rather, our Hadith narrations are so advanced for its time, where we had the companions of the prophet muhammad peace be upon him narrate to their students, who narrated to their students, and we have these events documented so well, that everyone in the chain of narration we have their biographies, and we have those who knew them, and we can even tell a hadith just by the way it is written/spoken because we know how the Prophet Muhammad spoke.
@FATAL12SKILLZ To say you know how he spoke is a lie, is their anyone on earth who could duplicate his speech considering those of that time are dead? What is identical between the scripture of the bible and Quran? Why could not Jesus be the Prophet? Only a sinless Person could remove sin. Christ was sinless, just like Adam when he was first formed. Was Muhammad made without 2 humans? Was he brought forth like Adam? who only had the earth as his mother and God as his father?
@Adriangrosvenor Because They distinguished between the Messiah and THAT prophet, and the people that spoke in the gospel even disputed and said "Is he the Messiah or that Prophet?" and they said no he can't be that prophet because THAT PROPHET WILL NOT BE FROM GALILEE!! Woooow so you are saying God conceived from the Earth?? And Even Jesus was tempted by the devil and according to the bible temptation = sins. So the only one who can remove sin is God, not Muhammad, not Adam, not Jesus.
@Adriangrosvenor Do you believe Jesus is God? Because Moses didn't believe he was. You see, if you think it was Jesus you are totally wrong, Moses had 2 parents and Jesus had only one while Muhammad had 2 as well.
@Adriangrosvenor Look at the style, read the Psalms and read the Quran or read Isaiah and read the Quran or Read the parables of Jesus and read the Quran it is identical. I've read the Psalms and I've read the Quran and the style is so alike its exhilierating but at the same time i am a little worried about the scriptures in the bible because some can be from God and others can't We don't reject or accept.
@Adriangrosvenor Yes there is people, because the hadith Narrations are in Arabic, and his style of speech is so distinct that some scholars just by reading the hadith can tell if it is from him or not. So yes The Muhaddithin (scholars of narrations) can duplicate his speech and what he said to a certain degree. What is the earliest full bible you have? Not that early at all a few hundred years, the earliest Quran we have was there around the the companions and there students were still alive.
@Adriangrosvenor So our narrations are stronger than your narrations, we have Hadith books from the time of the late Sahaba and Early Tabieen (followers of the sahaba) thus we have very strong evidence, both scientific and eye witness. As well, there say there is some documents in China and India which saw them to but we need to verify them. People in Arabia were on the Earth, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him by the will of Allah split the moon.
@Adriangrosvenor How about the miracle of the moon splitting? There is a fault line that is all around the moon that shows that the moon did split around a thousand or so years ago. There are plenty of miracles that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did perform and the chain of narration to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is much MORE clearer and stronger, we have a Quran and Hadith that was around the students of the companions of the Prophet and the actual companions themselves
@FATAL12SKILLZ Miracles of Muhammad that are so many?? Show you a bible that was around Prophets of the Bible? Is that a some king of Joke? Your not talking to a watered down Christian, What do you think David was reading when he said how Great is your Law? He was reading the writings of Moses, What do you think the Prophet was reading when he went up to the temple and found the scriptures and brought them to the king? What do you think Daniel was reading? What do you think the disciples was
@Adriangrosvenor So God talked through a donkey? What does that have to do with anything. I am saying the scripture of old is almost identical in style with the Quran. Identical, even when you return to the original language. Now Jesus in no way could've been that Prophet. Why? Because he was born of one parent, they lay claim he was God, he gained his prophethood at 30, he had no authority over the jews, he didn't wage any war. And even his personality was very different compared to Moses.
@FATAL12SKILLZ I don't think you understand the Prophecy of Moses. Prophet Muhammad above the other Prophets? really? was not Muhammad Married to Khadija a romon catholic Priest daughter? Did he not take from the daughters of the Pagans? Did he not have sexual relations with more than one woman? Law of Moses always applied to Abraham. lol see how little you know about the bible. Abraham kept the commandments. Before spewing out things you don't know, don't you think you should read first.
@Adriangrosvenor Khadija was not a Roman Catholic Priests daughter. Bring your proof if you speak the truth. Even if the daughters were pagans the women were Monothiest Muslims. So did Abraham, David, Solomon. You have no sense, how can the Law of Moses who came after Abraham apply to him? Where does it say this in the scripture. Rather there is nothing in the bible that says you can't have more than one wife. Show me one verse in the Old testament forbidding you to have more than one wife.
@FATAL12SKILLZ The bible restricts a man from Having more than one wife. Are you not aware of this. Read Genesis again. where does it say in scripture do not Marry more than one woman? "Thou shall not commit adultery"
@Adriangrosvenor Do you know what Adultery is? That is when you have sex with someone who isn't your wife however someone who is your wife or your women slave you can have sex. When you have sex with one of your wives that is NOT adultery rather that is having sex with another one of your wives. You said Abraham kept the commandments but you also said Abraham committed adultery.
@FATAL12SKILLZ bible. Yes I know what adultery is, its a man having sex with a woman he is not married to. Was Abraham married to Hagar? no, bible clearly defines it that if a man has sex outside of the woman he marries are take unto himself another wife and marry it is adultery. Do you know why it was only permitted for the Kings who lived after Moses to have more than one wife, while all others had to retain one wife? You jump ahead and assume without knowing what Israel did that
@Adriangrosvenor Didn't you say Abraham kept the commandments? So how could he commit adultery. Allah considered Ishmael the son of Abraham, that is what he called him. Give me a verse where it forbids sex with slaves, and to have more than wife. Give me a single verse from the bible.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Yes Abraham kept the commandments, so did Many other Prophets. But they also broke them also, but when they did they repented and offered sin offerings their fore removing that sin from the record while acknowledging it publicly. Gen 2:24 speaks of a man Marrying one woman no more. Matthew 19:5-6 Christ continues to mention this. The rules of the commandments would also apply to slaves, but the Israeli were not permitted to Marry or have sex with persons outside of them
@Adriangrosvenor so where is it that Abraham repented from his sins. Can i have the reference? By saying this you are claiming that Ishmael was a bastard.
Here is genesis verse
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
And the verse in mathew, this is more related to divorce not the disaproval of having mroe than one wife. That just means I can have more wives to become flesh with...
@FATAL12SKILLZ when they said we have found the Messiah?? What do you think Christ was referring to when he said the time is fulfilled when he was baptized? He was referring to a prophecy in Daniel which the Jewish rabbi don't teach Jews. What do you think Paul was reasoning with for nearly a whole day until the guy fell and broke his neck?? Now I know by that statement you don't know anything about a bible, you heard of it. Do you know what bible means by the way? that statement makes me
@Adriangrosvenor show me a bible that was around the disciples of Jesus peace be upon him or even the companions of David, or Saul, or Samuel, or Moses, or any of the Prophets of the bible! You don't have that and you'll only have little fragments (not from there time of course). The linguistic miracle is enough for the Quran, as well as the historical (such as the bible being wrong concerning the leader in the time of Yosuf alayhisalam, there was no pharoah there was only a king)
@FATAL12SKILLZ wonder if you even know why a bible is called a bible. What linguistic miracle? Do you know what a Miracle is? I have researched Muhammad when I was asked to by a Muslim who wanted me to consider Muhammad, and I found not one miracle of this man, nothing. The bible is wrong about nothing, who are you trying to fool? me, someone who have done great studies on past empires and their origin. You fools go around claiming Babylonian roots when Babylon was a Black nation.
@FATAL12SKILLZ and your Persians, What is Islam purer in that Judaism? Their is no such thing as Judaism. Lol, Judaism was derived from the Judah the last remnant that remained after Israel was destroyed by Babylon. Later your great nation(Persia/Ishmael) as you like to brag re-instated it as a country, so I guess the Jews own you some kind of debt. Then Judah was destroyed by Rome and the Jews(Judah) fled. The Jews now claiming to be Jews are fools as they are claiming a Nationality not
@FATAL12SKILLZ religion. Finally their is no more Judah, So someone calling them self a Jew is foolish. They were simply called Jews because they were from Judah. God only has belief and faith, that's it. Christians are called Christians because they follow Christ(Not all). Originally they were called Jews, but after the fall of Israel?Judah do show a difference in those who expected a worldly Messiah so save Israel and those who accepted Christ they became Christians.
@Adriangrosvenor Those in the chain of narration need to be reliable, if it is established that it is a hadith than we accept it. The below quoted would Never be a hadith. The only hadith that I know that relates to lying is that it is premissible to deceive in times of war, and there are plenty of Wisdoms behind that. But lying in general is not permissible.
@Adriangrosvenor how about the fact that Islam is much more pure in monotheism than Judaism? You guys lay INSULTS on the Prophets peace be upon him. Lot had sex with his girls? Noah cursed his son for looking at him naked for no reason? Solomon died as a pagan!! David set up his top general to be killed to marry his wife!? Come on I don't believe this nonsense. The Prophets of Allah are the honored men of Allah!
@FATAL12SKILLZ What insults on the Prophets, God tells the truth. Think he is going to hide their faults, then that would make him a liar. Yes Lot had sex with his daughters, Noah cursed his son for trying to have homosexual relationships with him, Solomon died allowing Pagans to carry out rituals in his country. David killed a man for his wife. And what was the outcome? They were punished for their sins, or did you not read that part. And they repented. Bible is not like your book
@FATAL12SKILLZ which hide away all the little dirty details of Prophet Muhammad. So again lets be real, why should I honor Muhammad with the privilege of being called a Prophet when he is not. Do you know Muhammad is the first Perfect Prophet created by two human beings in history. Even Abraham sinned when he made his wife go down to Egypt and lied about not being his wife, and again by sleeping with Hagar. But Muhammad he is perfect. Again lets be real here
@Adriangrosvenor Actually Muslims don't say Abraham sinned, even the version of that story is different in our books where the lie was clearly justified, and sleeping with Hagar? Sleeping with slaves was permissible in the bible so to make that point is very ignorant. And you clearly didn't answer any of the other points nor are you even CONSIDERING his prophet hood. A shame indeed.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Well your book likes to paint a perfect picture of the Prophets, make them seem Super human. Only person who lived with out sin was Shiloh. Who do you think we are, God? God says All have sinned, their is none perfect. I guess now I see your reasoning. You don't know anything about a bible, just here say. Its not permitted to sleep with a slave in the bible. lol after seven Years a slave was free to go. Do you even know what the word slave their means. lol she was a Concubine
@Adriangrosvenor Yes sinned, but major disgusting sins like having sex with your daughters? Minor sins and mistakes are for any humans, but the Prophets of Allah are above that. Don't be a liar. Those slaves you are talking about were slaves of ISRAEL! And since when did the law of Moses apply to the law of Abraham? Two different times two different codes of law. Do you have to sin to not be perfect? Allah is not perfect because he doesn't sin rather he is perfect because he is God.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Also I forgot to mention, the reason I can't consider his Prophet hood is because you are the ones making him a false Prophet not me. Your the ones claiming he is the one spoken of by Moses, when all scripture indicates he is not. Someone laying claim to something and their is nothing to back his claim is a false Prophet. That's what am thought from young as a Christian, and that's what I will maintain. I will take Muhammad over the Jewish liars. But I still can't.
@Adriangrosvenor Well who is that Prophet than? How about in the beggining of John when the rabbis asked who is "That Prophet" to John the baptist. He said hes NOT the messiah, hes NOT that Prophet, and he is not Elijah. Where in the scripture does it indicate. Did not God say that the inhabitants of Kedar will sing a NEW SON from GOD? What does that mean? A new scripture, who is Kedar? The son of Ishmael and he lived in Mecca. He is the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
@FATAL12SKILLZ God is perfect because he is God? Well I guess the "gods" of earth are perfect because they are "gods". John never pointed to Muhammad in any writings. What does Kedar singing a new song have to do with Muhammad claiming to be the Prophet spoken of by Moses? Arabs did not become Monotheistic under Muhammad, that is a lie. Their were Arabs who were Jews and Christian living in those lands who Muhammad slaughtered. I never said Solomon died a Pagan.
@Adriangrosvenor It wasn't "Kedar" it was the inhabitants of Kedar, that is the people of Mecca. A new song from GOD, meaning a new revelation meaning that the revelation will be given. The only revelation that was ever given to Mecca was the one given to Prophet Muhammad. John did say that he wasn't THAT Prophet so there was another Prophet being suspected who will not be from Galiliee. What do you mean that is a lie LOL.
@Adriangrosvenor Arabs become monotheistic and there idols were destroyed and the only god to be worshipped is the One God. Yes but Jews created there own laws so they made there selves their own Lords and that is associating partners with God. Once again Jews were killed through wars or they were EXILED! The only time the Jews were killed was because of treason. They betrayed there contract and than wanted to lead pagans to kill the Muslims who were not fighting. So the Jews...
@Adriangrosvenor were being terrorists in that regard. Even in the bible the act of treason calls for death. And the bible claims that Solomon was tempted by some women and died as a pagan.
@FATAL12SKILLZ Muhammad laying claim to being the Prophet spoken of by God automatically makes him a false Prophet, also the bible those not teach of a last Prophet, never did never will.
@Adriangrosvenor but the scripture did speak about THAT Prophet who was still to be suspected during the time of Jesus peace be upon him! Did he come or not?
@Adriangrosvenor The hadith narrations have been a scholarship since the time of the students of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. So it is a very well narrated, preserved, tradition the Muslims have which is much stronger than what the Christians and Jews have. There books are long gaps away from the actual Prophets or even the companions/ disciples of those Prophets or even there students!
@Adriangrosvenor Is a revelation (so called "song") sent to other than a messenger? Well the Arabs became monotheists at the hand of The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and Allah guided them.
@Adriangrosvenor this is a hideous lie on our Father Abraham. Than why is it that God never said anything to Abraham? And he said he will bless Ishmael? And he gave good tidings about Ishmael? Would he give good tidings about a Bastard. You Christians are sick and perverted in the head how could you even claim this? Even Moses (in the old testament) permitted
And as for your lame defence on the death penalty for rapists,
In the Holy Qur'an It says: ....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all of mankind. (5:32)
Moses (Pbuh) was a muslim (muslim means submitted all his will to god) dont let the word in arabic be a barrier for the close minded who dont wish to explore and seek knowledge.
The Holy Qur'an mentions all what the prophets say jus in more detail
"Once again the bible is supported by evidence", seems a little exaggerated, since there is mostly no evidence for anything that book says, only evidence that proofs it is all BS. But that shouldn't bother you guys much, since you make a virtue out of believing anything on "faith", don't you?
I don't see how this was a devastating blow to bible sceptics.
I don't know of any biblical scholars who claim that all of the Old or New Testament are false. This is a strawman argument.
However, from a historical point of view, even some biblical scholars accept that most of the Cornerstone events in the Bible, i.e the Exodus, The flood, the kingdom of David and Most of the story of Jesus are dubious to say the least and are not backed up by any other verifable evidence other than the Bible.
Almost everybody, including most atheists, knows there's a certain amount of history in the Torah. Only a believer could think it's all true. And even if it were all based on actual events, you can't read any work of history as if it's a total truth.
Really, where the hell does anyone get the idea that if one believable part of the bible is true that all the ridiculous stuff must be?
I think that when the facts speak the gods remain silent.I know at least 7 jewish people and strangly until this day 4 of them are hated by the community, simply because they behave so high and mighty towards everyone else, they always think the jew is superior, he is somehow blessed by someone, he is smarter, he is richer, he is higher...
Well the world doesnt like their unhuman behaviour and this is why we hate jews, Christ called them ''wicked'', ever wondered why?
@NEMESIS1999 -I say this with the utmost respect. I don't think it wise to quote Jesus out of context. ESPECIALLY when you assign such hatred to him this in reply to you end comment. When Jesus said the Jews were "wicked" He was NOT referring to ALL Jews, but instead to those at the temple who were trading money and not adhering to the laws of Judaism. Jesus never said in any way shape or form that ALL Jews were wicked. Even if you don't believe, PLEASE respect everyone, we respect your rights
''Because our GOD is greater than other Gods''...........if you don't see the arrogance in this statement then you must be blind.
As if they say, ''Because we jews are the greatest nation amongs all nations'' and that same arrogance exists until our days, today the jews are as arrogant as ever the same as their ancestors were.
The film seems to read far too much into this. The story of King Solomons Mines relates to a great source of wealth. All we have here is a copper mine in opperation in the 10th century BC in Jordan. Big deal, copper mines had been in existance for thousands of years by then. Its not even in the right place. Solomons great source of wealth was supposed to have been accessed by a fleet travelling down the Red Sea away from Jordan.
This is fascinating but I don’t see how it causes skeptics to suffered a devastating blow. All it really does is to prove that this single fact from the bible is correct, it does nothing to verify the rest of the book. It still comes down to a matter of belief, one that skeptics do not share. And that is of course their right, just as it is the choice of adherents of religion to choose to believe.
@dwellyn Not quite. This information acts to verify the site's actual existence as stated in a sacred text. If anything, it adds considerable weight / value to the credibility and validity of other claims made in the same book.
@brimarie1981I cant quote exact verse . I think one is in Daniel where he is told to seal up the prophecy and it will not be able to be understood until the later days. Another is in book of Revelation about 7 thunders and to seal up what this says.
@Thundralight Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Is that the verse your vefering to. I like to read Daniel and Revelations it makes me feel that we are getting so much closer to the return of Jesus.
@PhuqueU I actually read that there were copper mines on the north side of Lake Superior dating to that same time. It is possible that the Phonecians were employed to go on such voyages....
Oh get over the debate already. Stop watching zeitgeist with 3second bits of formation thrown together. BS If you want to know the truth, first study the God of Abraham. That's who everything is about - including the Messiah. THEN, you can strip away the pagan 'crap' and get to the real Messiah. PULLEASE Even the Pharoah could not find God of Abraham amongst his 'gods'- u know - amongst all those u accuse him of being?
please stop using bible for authentic reference. I'm tired of listening atheist making fun of all religion thanks to the bible. stop this non sense, check out Quran, spend little time on it. 1400 years not a single latter changed.
The case with Uhtman ibn Affan was not his decission rather it was a decission taken by every Companion of the Prophet. Also it wasn't the year he died but around 1-1 1/2 a year after the death of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him by Abu Bakr and Umar may Allah be pleased with them.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Many false Prophets though he speaks of, so he refers back to what God says about testing the Prophets. Am the most upfront Christian you would ever speak to. Is their ground for Muhammad to be considered a Prophet yes. But unlike you the bible does not teach of a last Prophet, it speaks of more Prophets arising. But my problem with Muhammad is you guys saying he is the one spoken of by Moses, when that prophecy refers to Christ. If this was not the claim, then I would readily
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor That Prophecy can in no way refer to christ. The scripture clearly speaks of being put to death if he is not spoken in my name. In character Isa and Musa are different, Isa is more gentle and Musa was more rough. Musa had a law that he implemented and Isa didn't. I call you to you saying you would "readily" believe him.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ yes Muhammad could be a Prophet as the bible supports More Prophets arising. But from what I have seen I believe many Muslims twist the mans words or don't fully understand him. Just like Many Christians twist the words of Christ, Paul, David and the Prophets and do not understand them, so do Muslims from what I have seen.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Can you give evidence that we twist his words? There are some Muslims who do that but they are usually the deviant ones.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
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@Adriangrosvenor Can you give evidence that we twist his words? There are some Muslims who do that but they are usually the deviant ones.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor were not written 300 years after christ. I'm telling you that the earliest Gospels available (full ones) are around 2-3 hundred years from the time they were written. I believe the gospel was written at the time of Jesus peace be upon him! That is my belief but we don't have that gospel. To me the closest ones is the Dedache (look it up) and the Gospel of James.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
THIS JUST IN: A place called "London" was recently discovered via Google Earth. It is thusly concluded that the Harry Potter series is complete fact.
LucasI3434 5 months ago
@LucasI3434 Thats completely different, Harry potter was a series brought up in the 20th-21st century and promoted as a novel filled with fiction. While the bible (concerning Some basic points of history) has to do with a culture of a people. Which is not a reason to deny this culture.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
Do you think they will one day discover a species of snake with vocal cords?
LOL
rubberbaby00 5 months ago
You Genuine Christians that are closer to nazarenes need to revert to Islam a sappp !!!
wiseeyes001 7 months ago
@wiseeyes001
revert = regress
Msunbird02 7 months ago
@Msunbird02
regress = return
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@wiseeyes001
return = going backwards
Msunbird02 6 months ago
@Msunbird02
Short Scenario for the simple minded:
If a man was in a position of wealth & good health, and lost all his wealth an became unwell then returned back to his position of wealth and good health,
Would you class this as going backwards ? or would you say the original position is the successful position.
The road to success would be classed as going forward, if you disagree with the scenario theirs no point in a reply.
I don't get into debates with imbeciles.
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@wiseeyes001
Short Scenario for the even simpler minded:
If a man or woman steals an item that doesn't belong to them, would you class the action of cutting off his right hand so that he can't work or write a successful option?
The road to success would be classed as going forward into enlightenment, not vengeful mutilation.
I can tell you don't have the insight to produce a rational analogy, so don't bother replying.
Msunbird02 6 months ago
Comment removed
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@Msunbird02
What has your lame example got anything to do with REVERT ?
The road to success is a goal to work forward to, anything preventing that is a sheer obstacle.
See how quick theft and robbery goes down, you'll hate the punishment for the next crime:
A Man who commits Rape = Punishment is Death
Not like the justice system in so called developed countries where the rapist whould be out in a year or 2
Forgive me for having strong beliefs.
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@wiseeyes001
You see? You don't posses the insight to be able to connect the dots. That's why Islamic countries fail proven by the UN Human Development Index. UAE tops their ranking by coming in at No. 32! Islamic thinking = regression into retardation of human development and advancement, including spirituality. The 6th Commandment reads: "Thou shalt not kill / murder" so there goes the death penalty for rape out the window and Muhammad said not to dispute People of the Book!
Msunbird02 6 months ago
@Msunbird02
Hahaha you can't quote verses here and there and use them out of context for your own point of view, you rather take it as a whole or don't (alternative: believe we evolved from monkeys or the big bang theory what ever floats your boat). Educate yourself if you want to no more about the Abrahamic religions then find and read the ORIGINAL Torah scriptures, Gospel scriptures, Psalms scriptures and the Holy Qur'an.
And even a dipshit like you can put the pieces of the puzzle 2geva
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@wiseeyes001
Context is a misnomer in the Unholy Qur'an b/c it's a total fraud ... just like the false prophet itself.
"I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." - MUHAMMAD (History of Al-Tabari Vol 6 Ch 111)
Msunbird02 6 months ago
@Msunbird02
Unreliable sources !!! get real or get lost dipshit
I only follow THE HOLY QUR'AN & i read AUTHENTIC HADITH anything else is unreliable like your point of views haha.
The truth shall set you free dipshit.
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@wiseeyes001
As an infidel, I already am free but you are held hostage to a fraudulent death cult. Btw, since I haven't insulted you, I'd appreciate the same respect in return - if you're capable. Otherwise don't despoil my right to comment again.
Msunbird02 6 months ago
@Msunbird02
Haha you couldn't insult me if you tried you speak pure squabble id have to be as much as an idiot as you to take your comments on board, you speak just words it all goes over my head, if ive hit a nerve then you need to take a look at your own views, opinions and beliefs, before speaking out on others.
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
@wiseeyes001 Naturally it goes over your head b/c you aren't even allowed to question or reason for yourself. I don't need to stoop to or rely on childish name-calling or sheer irrationality.
Msunbird02 6 months ago
@Msunbird02 Amasing Muhammad says he is a liar up front an bold, and ppl still say he is a Prophet : (
Adriangrosvenor 6 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor
I know, it's an incomprehensible human tragedy. Muslims have NEVER been told the truth and still let themselves remain deceived after 1400 years. The reference is given to verify authenticity and please feel free to copy and paste it to spread the Truth and hopefully wake some of them up to the extent of which they've been conned.
Msunbird02 6 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Learn a little thing about Islamic Traditions, we are not those who just take face value the narrations and say "This is what it is" nor do we accept someone who says this is a tradition when in all means he could just be lying and slapping a hadith source. Which the haters of Islam have done. First of all we have a tradition of Isnad (chain of transmission) and this chain of transmission has to go back to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. And as well ...
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ When you produce Muhammad's miracles we can go on to have a debate. I don't waste time debating fraudulent claims. I have nothing against Muslims, I admire the will to submit themselves to a higher power. And God will judge based on their knowledge. But lets be real here, Muhammed is not the one spoken of by Moses. He did nothing Moses did. Just laying claim to a Hebrew is wrong, considering he is of the seed of Ishmael. So lets not debate until we bring reason to the table
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor That was not the discussion in hand. You totally took the conversation in a totally other direction. what do you mean "lets be real here"?! When the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him fulfilled every criteria and he is a man that is extremely similar to the Prophet Moses peace be upon him. The other thing there is a prophecy about the nation of Ishmael as well, what will they be? A Great Nation and the bible says a great nation is one who obeys God. When did the nation...
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ What I mean by lets be real here is that nothing validates Muhammad's claim to being the one spoken of by Moses. So seeing he is laying claim to that he is a false Prophet. What does Muhammad have in common with Moses??? that one has me shocked, their is nothing about Muhammad close to Moses. Yes Ishmael became a great Nation, your Arabs, what don't you get about that, don't you understand your Persians, you should be proud of Cyrus. Really a great Nation is one which obeys
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor of Ishmael become great? peace be upon him. When The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him came, than the transformation of the Arabian peninsula and the whole world took place. As well, The similarities in the speech of the bible is strikingly similar are you telling me an illiterate Arab can capture the speech of Allah! The speech of Allah cannot be replicated and the Quran is inimitable.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ God? So what is the point, they are Many God fearing great nations, does that validate any Prophet coming forward claiming he is the one spoken of by Moses?? When Mohammed came he slaughtered the Christians living in that area, what great transformation is that?? What similarities in speech, Moses was educated, Muhammad was illiterate. What speech of Allah? God use an ass to talk to someone, does the ass replicate the speech of God?? What miracle of the moon splitting? Are you
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Muhammad peace be upon him did not slaughter any christians, so that is a straight fabricated lie. What does Moses and Muhammad not have in common? They both gained there prophethood at the age of 40, Muhammad and Moses peace be upon him both did major Hijra (migration) so much so that the migration of Moses is a big part of the Jewish tradition and our history starts with the Migration of the Messenger of Allah. How about the fact that both of them implemented laws.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Yes history testifies that Muhammad killed the Christians, burning down Jewish lands and striking fear to those who refused to accept Islam. This is not a lie, to say that Muhammad did not kill Christians and Jews however is a lie. Moses did not gain Prophet hood at 40, he is considered a Prophet when he went to Israel and stopped an Egyptian from beating him. Migration those not qualify as anything to list under comparison between them. Paul traveled a lot, should I then call
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor No thats not true, Prophet hood was given at 40, and Muhammad peace be upon him did kill Jews for a few reasons because the JEWS fought him (what will he turn the other cheek) but he never fought Christians to kill them (other than the romans but that was WAR) and he also killed the Jews because of Treason. Acts 7:23-24 says when Moses was age 40 when he fought that egyptian so even considering your history it is true.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor as in both of them had laws and were the authority over there community, how about the fact that they both waged war against the disbelievers? They both did Jihad (this is considered Jihad what moses did). Allah spoke to Moses straight forward, and Allah talked to Muhammad peace be upon him in the isra wal meraj. They both have a strong message of Monotheism and they both took there people out of that darkness. Did not Bani Israel take the calf?
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Paul the one spoken of by Moses. Moses brought the law (commandments) and sacrificial system. This is in no relation to Muhammad's words. Muhammad distorts this message, don't you know that the Prophet was going to speak according to what the law of God said and fulfill the sacrificial law which Moses started. God spoke to Samuel, those that make him the one?? Samuel promoted Monotheism, those this make him the one? You said he split the moon, I asked was their anyone who
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Yes it does! The Jews do consider Samuel a Prophet and so does the Muslims. We call him Samood. anyone who was on the moon? Was their anyone on the sea when it got split? no they were outside but there were people who saw the moon being split on Earth, and it was split from Earth by the will of Allah. He pointed his finger and split it bithnillah.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor and Paul wasn't even a Hebrew! Ishmaelis are closer to the Israelis than the Romans were! What hypocrisy!
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ crazy? Who split the moon? Mohammad? Dude don't be a lunatic and bring folly. Is their any man who can go on the moon and bring witnesses and testify that the moon was spit when he was on it? Thats crazy, until you bring someone who lived on the moon when it was split then only then can that be called a miracle. Oh i forgot you don't know about Persons having to be their and in the location of the miracle for it to be taken seriously. Its a requirement of God. Where are the
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Listen carefully, I didn't say the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him went on the moon and split it with his own hands, rather he split it by the will of Allah while he was on the Earth. And Go look at Nasa pictures of the moon, there is a fault line all across the moon showing that it did split once upon a time. And I can give the same claim, what eye witness proof do you have about the sea splitting?
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ was on the moon who could testify that the moon was split when they were living their? Until someone who lived on the moon came to earth at the time Muhammad performed the Moon splitting and said it was split, only then would it be considered. But sadly no one was on the moon and came to earth bearing news of the moon splitting. God says if its not established by eye witnesses then it can't be considered. Narration is not a miracle. Have you heard Muhammad spoke?
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor If people SAW the Moon split does that mean the moon didn't split? Nobody was on the sea when it split they were outside of it. Similarly the moon was split by the will of Allah. Did you ever hear Jesus? And not even Christians say paul is the one spoken by Moses! Paul spoke completely contrary to the law of Moses peace be upon him. Rather he is even completely opposite to the Disciples and Jesus himself. Jesus said follow the law, Paul said we don't need it.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ lol Paul said don't follow the law. Who thought you that fake "Christians". Just because Christian sects bend the words of Paul so they can get away with their little lies they spin those not make it Paul fault.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Paul clearly rejected circumcision which is part of the covenant and law of Abraham and many other laws he held contrary to. And he wasn't a hebrew (Which you said because Prophet Muhammad is an ishmaeli who is a clear brother of the israelis he can't be a Prophet how can you say Paul who is even further away from that) it is either Jesus or Paul who? Both would be wrong due to your interpretation
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Their is a hurricane in my area, so as soon as its over I will respond. But a quick note on Paul, Paul rejected circumcision because after Jesus died their was no need for it. Did you not know that God predicted the end of Israel? Jesus prophesied that Israel would fall and be destroyed. Paul was a Jew(Judah descendant) did you not know this? He just persecuted those who accepted Christ. I never said Muhammad could not be a Prophet, bible those no teach a Prophet can only
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ come out of Israel, I said Muhammad could not be a Prophet based on what your pushing. Your the ones claiming Muhammad said he was the one Prophesied by Moses. If he did that then he cannot be a Prophet because he has no evidence in his corner. As all the Prophets pointed to Jesus. Bible those teach that more prophets will arise, it those not teach a last Prophet though. It teaches how to tell someone is a Prophet also. Anyway as soon as the hurricane is over will respond
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor There is LESS proof that it is Jesus peace be upon him. Because that prophet would be executed and killed. The Prophet Muhammad was not killed by execution rather he died normally or he died by poison (poisoned and Allah preserved him until he finished his message) but Jesus peace be upon him wsa crucified (according to the Christians) so Moses and Muhammad are more alike and that is evidence, more so than Jesus and Moses peace be upon them.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Muhammad was poisoned by a Jew. Jesus had to die, it was predicted from Genesis. Did you not read what God said to Adam. Jesus is like unto Moses. He led Israel out of spiritual captivity. He performed Miracles, and became the sacrifice. I highly doubt Muhammad ever said that he was the Prophet spoken of by Moses, he would have been foolish to lay claim to such things. Muhammad never had direct contact with God, Gabriel gave him his messages. No miracles
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Moses was never sacrificed Muhammad didn't say it, rather Allah said that he was foretold in the scripture and this is one of the clearest prophecies. There was most likely many more (and there is many more I haven't mentioned yet) Yes Gabriel did give him the message but he went on the night journey to Jerusalem and than from there was lifted up into the 7 heavens to talk to Allah about the command of prayer.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ God said Muhammad was foretold in the scriptures, Is that your scriptures? Their are no prophesies in the bible about Muhammad. I have saw the so-called Prophesies and when they are examined in their original context then we see no trace of evidence of Muhammad. The Gospels were written at the time of the disciples, Who do you think wrote the writings of Paul? . Who do you think wrote the Gospels? Who do you think wrote Isaiah? you need to stop guessing when it comes to the
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor I showed you the one of the inhabitants of Kedar, there is also a prophecy in the song of Solomon and Paul was a heretic. We know the galatians were written by paul. But the Gospels we don't have a single gospel that we still have from the time of the writers of the gospels. Not one.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ What you have is Paul reaffirming the Law of God, and the disciples constantly saying keep the commandments. But because Paul writings continue to reaffirm this, Many "Christians" scholars have spread that lie, so that they can run around screaming Grace, when Christ never said he came to Remove the commandments. Don't believe me, tell any Christian Paul says to keep the commandments and they immediately say Paul was wrong or that he meant something else.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor he gave him the organization of the Quran and it was recited. And than those recitors they memorized from listening. The Arabs had a strong oral tradition and they memorized everything, this is clear when you see there tribal lineages and how bedouins would memorize Poetry and 1000s and 1000s years of lineages and we still have them today. They have a culture of memorization. Anyway Uthman put dots and iotas on the ayat so non arabs can read them and he made one codex
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Yes he was poisoned by the Jew, but he didn't die. How much people have you see who got poisoned and lived 3-5 years after that? Because that is what happened so the poisoning was not a direct cause to his death. Rather Allah perserved him and than took him and honored him by allowing the poison to kill him as well. Thus he became Shaheed (A witness/Martyr) and what is better than a martyr??
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ God allowed a King to have more than one wife. He eventually died from the poison. If he was indeed the one Prophesied why could he not heal himself? Don't you know the one prophesied was going to heal all manner of sickness? Paul got bitten by a deadly snake, shook it off, and lived. This Prophet Muhammad could not. Shows he was not the one Prophesied. Your not presenting truth, show me one verse where Muhammad says with his own mouth that he was the one Prophesied.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Jesus didn't heal people by his own will. Allah did, and he said it him self. As well, the poison was the cause of his death 3 years after, in those 3 years he had his most harshest and successful conquests and battles. So the poison was not wearing him down. Rather read the narrations of his death, the angel of Death gives the choice of death for all Prophets and the Prophet Muhammad said he wants to be with the highest companion. If he chose to be with us than Allah...
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Jesus healed people, rather by God or not he did it. Did Muhammad heal anyone? Was their any one who arose that healed the people as predicted? I can speak to you on the Quran, because I am Christian does not mean am not going to take a look into it and see what it is saying. After all am commanded to prove all things. And Muhammad case must be proved. I can accept that Muhammad brought the teachings of God to some extent to the people. But adding the Prophecy is to far out.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
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@FATAL12SKILLZ Jesus healed people, rather by God or not he did it. Did Muhammad heal anyone? Was their any one who arose that healed the people as predicted? I can speak to you on the Quran, because I am Christian does not mean am not going to take a look into it and see what it is saying. After all am commanded to prove all things. And Muhammad case must be proved. I can accept that Muhammad brought the teachings of God to some extent to the people. But adding the Prophecy is to far out.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Yes there was people he healed, one man's eye popped out in war and he put it back in his socket, and than another man got sick that his eyes became shut and he put his saliva on his eyes and than he became healed. Another man's leg was broken and he healed his leg. Bringing back from the dead? That is done only by the will of Allah. That does in no way mean Jesus is Allah because there were people before him who brought people back from the dead according to the bible.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ And when we change a verse(of the Quran) in place of another, and Allah knows the best of what he sends down, they (me the disbeliever that Muhammad is saying these things) say You are but a Muftari (liar) Nay but most of them know not Surah 16:101
Surah 2:106 "If We abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We shall replace it with a better one or one
similar."
Give me a break, you guys are good at bending the man's words, I suggest you speak to your Iman and ask him
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Iman? Iman means faith I think you mean Imam. You are the twister of the bible and bend and twist it with your whims and desires. Rather Allah has said in Surah Baqarah [002:079] And misery is for (their scholars,) those who write a book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allah!” In return for that, they acquire a petty price. Woe to them for what they write with their hands! Woe to them for what they earn with it!
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
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@Adriangrosvenor Iman? Iman means faith I think you mean Imam. You are the twister of the bible and bend and twist it with your whims and desires. Rather Allah has said in Surah Baqarah [002:079] And misery is for (their scholars,) those who write a book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allah!” In return for that, they acquire a petty price. Woe to them for what they write with their hands! Woe to them for what they earn with it!
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ about these things. First no one can change the words of God, is reportedly what was said, then "when we change a verse of the Quran" so is Muhammad a mad man? Or are the ones who twisted his words the liars? Again I highly doubt Muhammad went around claiming things you guys placed in his mouth. They twisted his words and said he said this and that. When its not even so.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ The Quran was not even written when Muhammad was alive, so by your definition if a book is written after someone has died, then its not qualified, while the Biblical scriptures were all written when the disciples and their associates were alive. And the bible does not claim to be like your Quran. So i might have just throw out Muhmmad's teaching because facts are he was not alive when it was written. Your Quran was written by Uthman Ibn Affan 20 years after Muhammad died.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor It may have been written but we don't have a single one of those copies today. And you are wrong, the first Quran was written the year the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him died. But the Quran is not a written book, the Quran means recitation and it is a recital that is perserved in the hearts of men. And the Quran is mutawattir. What does mutawatir mean? It means that it is narrated so much times from so many different people and places that no one could've possibly invented..
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ The first Quran was not written the day Muhammad died, all their was that existed was stories passed down and thought about what Muhammad said. Then their were some fragments written on pieces of thin paper, they sought out to gather the teachings of Muhammad and compiled them together. History shows the first Quran was compiled together approximately 20 years after his death. It took them that long to gather all the information, and most of those alive with him was at war
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Are you creating a fabricated story. Can I have a request from you? Can we be truthful and investigate the matter fully? The Quran is to be memorized not written, read the Quran. It says this is a recital, a revelation. The Muslims memorized the Quran. How little do you know history. There were around 700 HAFIDH (people who memorized the Quran) and at the War of Apostasy (a lot of Muslims apostatized after the death of Prophet Muhammad) A lot of them died fighting these wars
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ and they feared that those men would die. Bible is also written on the hearts of men, I also can recall many verses thought to me and pass them down to my kin. I never said the Quran was invented though, you don't see me making that claim, how could I have many muslim friends and think that it was invented? Am saying you can't say that some verses were not altered and that Muhammad ever claimed to be the one said by Moses. The bible gospels were not written 2-3 hundred
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor so that was the time they feared. When was the wars of apostasy? It wasn't the time of Uthman it was the time of Abu Bakr, and the wars of apostasy took place 1/12 years after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. At that time Abu Bakr and Umar (who also memorized the Quran in whole) compiled the first Quran. Now know this, the Prophet Muhammad every year during ramadan would go over the Quran with the angel Gibrael and the year he died he went over it two times. He gave him..
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
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@Adriangrosvenor so that was the time they feared. When was the wars of apostasy? It wasn't the time of Uthman it was the time of Abu Bakr, and the wars of apostasy took place 1/12 years after the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. At that time Abu Bakr and Umar (who also memorized the Quran in whole) compiled the first Quran. Now know this, the Prophet Muhammad every year during ramadan would go over the Quran with the angel Gibrael and the year he died he went over it two times. He gave him..
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ He gave him the organization of the Quran and he recited it with him. The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him taught his companions. And it went down. Now these days the BIG Quraa (people who memorize and recite the Quran with correct pronunciation) have a chain of transmission that lead all the way back to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. This is much stronger than to have an actual written copy. Bro, I know christians don't say the gospels...
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor no one could invent it. So it is a fact that the Quran was the same one revealed on his heart and spoken by his tongue. Although we DO have mushafs (written Qurans) that date back to the time of the late sahaba and late tabaieen (students of the sahaba i.e the companions) although the earliest Gospels (full gospels) that are here now are around 2-3 hundred years after the gospels were supposedly written. So the Quran has much more of a stand.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ years after, that's a distortion of history, because when the Jews persecuted the Christians they were quoting the words of Christ and Paul. What you are speaking is Roman catholic doctrine that makes that claim which allows them to claim that Peter left the church to them. Which is false as Jesus never left Rome in charge of any doctrine. The bible existed when Rome took over the church and they have distorted history to make fraudulent claims. Paul was no heretic.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Paul is a clear heretic point blank period, the disciples didn't accept him and that is why he had a difference with James and said they taught a different gosepl. What rubbish! Show me where paul said keep the commandments rather than in your heart. But I know Jesus peace be upon him would never say don't keep the commandments.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ I believed many Muslims twisted the words of Muhammad, putting things in his mouth that he never claimed. So in essence Muslim maybe to blame for Muhammad not being considered a Prophet, because by saying he was the one spoken of by Moses that automatically makes him a false Prophet. If he ( I highly doubt he did) did not mention that he would then still have ground to be considered a Prophet. But you guys killed what the man probably really thought.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Where is your proof for this conjecture? We have narrations from his time and from the time of disciples but you don't have a single gospel that was from the time of the disciples or the time of the writers of the disciples or even a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the gospel! So how are you going to lay such idiotic claims when I can scrutinize the bible in a more harsher way.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor We don't need the approval of any body from another group. Rather we present the truth, and it is your decission to take it, we present the facts, it is your decission to take it. The Quran confirms the scripture, the scripture doesn't confirm the Quran. Rather half the rabbis in Hijaz accepted Islam without being put to the sword and one of the most prominent among them was Abdullah ibn Salam
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Don't come with God said, and this scribe said. Show me Muhammad saying with his own words. I am the one Prophesied. I highly doubt he did, it is my belief that your Iman's lied to you and twisted your scripture. Muhammad never said most of those things you put in his mouth.
"there is NONE who can change His words.
He both heareth and knoweth."
-- Surah 6:115
There is no changing the words of God;
that is the mighty triumph.
-- Surah 10:64
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Don't try to talk to a MUSLIM about his Quran, no the books of the past are with Allah and no one can ever change them, they are preserved with Allah but that which the people of the book had was changed after Allah broguht the Quran because they were abrogated. Like many abrogated verses in the Quran that were not in there any more (other than the ones Allah left in the Quran by his will and wisdom)
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ By the admission of those who compiled the Quran they said they could change the verses, even though Muhammad had died, they lay claim that they could. Well yes I meant Imam. I don't twist the bible, am Christian, I do as it says. I have to keep the commandments, abstain from unclean meats, and preach the word of God. My faith is similar to yours, except In the aspect of Christ. I have not heard of Jesus speaking of Muhammad, but he says that more Prophets will arise.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Give your proof if ye be truthful. Where did it say they could change the verses? Okay think about it like this. The bible says A PROPHET will rise. Now this PROPHET rose and he said he is the FINAL ONE. That means he brought that from Allah. If he brought that from the authority of God and the signs are clear wouldn't you accept it?
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor allowed it. But the verse talking about the prophet will be put to death means Execution, capital punishment. It doesn't have to be a verse rather there is so much Allah does not need to say "It is here and there and this one" But there is a Prophecy that is spoken about in the Quran from the tongue of Jesus. And this prophecy deals with parkyletos. Than you Christians will say "it says spirit" but it doesn't say holy spirit and a spirit in aramaic can be a human to.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord,
there is none who can alter His words;
and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.
-- Surah 18:27
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
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@FATAL12SKILLZ I believed many Muslims twisted the words of Muhammad, putting things in his mouth that he never claimed. So in essence Muslim maybe to blame for Muhammad not being considered a Prophet, because by saying he was the one spoken of by Moses that automatically makes him a false Prophet. If he ( I highly doubt he did) did not mention that he would then still have ground to be considered a Prophet. But you guys killed what the man probably really thought.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
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@Adriangrosvenor There is LESS proof that it is Jesus peace be upon him. Because that prophet would be executed and killed. The Prophet Muhammad was not killed by execution rather he died normally or he died by poison (poisoned and Allah preserved him until he finished his message) but Jesus peace be upon him wsa crucified (according to the Christians) so Moses and Muhammad are more alike and that is evidence, more so than Jesus and Moses peace be upon them.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Rather, our Hadith narrations are so advanced for its time, where we had the companions of the prophet muhammad peace be upon him narrate to their students, who narrated to their students, and we have these events documented so well, that everyone in the chain of narration we have their biographies, and we have those who knew them, and we can even tell a hadith just by the way it is written/spoken because we know how the Prophet Muhammad spoke.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ To say you know how he spoke is a lie, is their anyone on earth who could duplicate his speech considering those of that time are dead? What is identical between the scripture of the bible and Quran? Why could not Jesus be the Prophet? Only a sinless Person could remove sin. Christ was sinless, just like Adam when he was first formed. Was Muhammad made without 2 humans? Was he brought forth like Adam? who only had the earth as his mother and God as his father?
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Because They distinguished between the Messiah and THAT prophet, and the people that spoke in the gospel even disputed and said "Is he the Messiah or that Prophet?" and they said no he can't be that prophet because THAT PROPHET WILL NOT BE FROM GALILEE!! Woooow so you are saying God conceived from the Earth?? And Even Jesus was tempted by the devil and according to the bible temptation = sins. So the only one who can remove sin is God, not Muhammad, not Adam, not Jesus.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Do you believe Jesus is God? Because Moses didn't believe he was. You see, if you think it was Jesus you are totally wrong, Moses had 2 parents and Jesus had only one while Muhammad had 2 as well.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Look at the style, read the Psalms and read the Quran or read Isaiah and read the Quran or Read the parables of Jesus and read the Quran it is identical. I've read the Psalms and I've read the Quran and the style is so alike its exhilierating but at the same time i am a little worried about the scriptures in the bible because some can be from God and others can't We don't reject or accept.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Yes there is people, because the hadith Narrations are in Arabic, and his style of speech is so distinct that some scholars just by reading the hadith can tell if it is from him or not. So yes The Muhaddithin (scholars of narrations) can duplicate his speech and what he said to a certain degree. What is the earliest full bible you have? Not that early at all a few hundred years, the earliest Quran we have was there around the the companions and there students were still alive.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor So our narrations are stronger than your narrations, we have Hadith books from the time of the late Sahaba and Early Tabieen (followers of the sahaba) thus we have very strong evidence, both scientific and eye witness. As well, there say there is some documents in China and India which saw them to but we need to verify them. People in Arabia were on the Earth, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him by the will of Allah split the moon.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor How about the miracle of the moon splitting? There is a fault line that is all around the moon that shows that the moon did split around a thousand or so years ago. There are plenty of miracles that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did perform and the chain of narration to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is much MORE clearer and stronger, we have a Quran and Hadith that was around the students of the companions of the Prophet and the actual companions themselves
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Miracles of Muhammad that are so many?? Show you a bible that was around Prophets of the Bible? Is that a some king of Joke? Your not talking to a watered down Christian, What do you think David was reading when he said how Great is your Law? He was reading the writings of Moses, What do you think the Prophet was reading when he went up to the temple and found the scriptures and brought them to the king? What do you think Daniel was reading? What do you think the disciples was
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor So God talked through a donkey? What does that have to do with anything. I am saying the scripture of old is almost identical in style with the Quran. Identical, even when you return to the original language. Now Jesus in no way could've been that Prophet. Why? Because he was born of one parent, they lay claim he was God, he gained his prophethood at 30, he had no authority over the jews, he didn't wage any war. And even his personality was very different compared to Moses.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ I don't think you understand the Prophecy of Moses. Prophet Muhammad above the other Prophets? really? was not Muhammad Married to Khadija a romon catholic Priest daughter? Did he not take from the daughters of the Pagans? Did he not have sexual relations with more than one woman? Law of Moses always applied to Abraham. lol see how little you know about the bible. Abraham kept the commandments. Before spewing out things you don't know, don't you think you should read first.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Khadija was not a Roman Catholic Priests daughter. Bring your proof if you speak the truth. Even if the daughters were pagans the women were Monothiest Muslims. So did Abraham, David, Solomon. You have no sense, how can the Law of Moses who came after Abraham apply to him? Where does it say this in the scripture. Rather there is nothing in the bible that says you can't have more than one wife. Show me one verse in the Old testament forbidding you to have more than one wife.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ The bible restricts a man from Having more than one wife. Are you not aware of this. Read Genesis again. where does it say in scripture do not Marry more than one woman? "Thou shall not commit adultery"
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Do you know what Adultery is? That is when you have sex with someone who isn't your wife however someone who is your wife or your women slave you can have sex. When you have sex with one of your wives that is NOT adultery rather that is having sex with another one of your wives. You said Abraham kept the commandments but you also said Abraham committed adultery.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ bible. Yes I know what adultery is, its a man having sex with a woman he is not married to. Was Abraham married to Hagar? no, bible clearly defines it that if a man has sex outside of the woman he marries are take unto himself another wife and marry it is adultery. Do you know why it was only permitted for the Kings who lived after Moses to have more than one wife, while all others had to retain one wife? You jump ahead and assume without knowing what Israel did that
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Didn't you say Abraham kept the commandments? So how could he commit adultery. Allah considered Ishmael the son of Abraham, that is what he called him. Give me a verse where it forbids sex with slaves, and to have more than wife. Give me a single verse from the bible.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Yes Abraham kept the commandments, so did Many other Prophets. But they also broke them also, but when they did they repented and offered sin offerings their fore removing that sin from the record while acknowledging it publicly. Gen 2:24 speaks of a man Marrying one woman no more. Matthew 19:5-6 Christ continues to mention this. The rules of the commandments would also apply to slaves, but the Israeli were not permitted to Marry or have sex with persons outside of them
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor so where is it that Abraham repented from his sins. Can i have the reference? By saying this you are claiming that Ishmael was a bastard.
Here is genesis verse
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
And the verse in mathew, this is more related to divorce not the disaproval of having mroe than one wife. That just means I can have more wives to become flesh with...
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ when they said we have found the Messiah?? What do you think Christ was referring to when he said the time is fulfilled when he was baptized? He was referring to a prophecy in Daniel which the Jewish rabbi don't teach Jews. What do you think Paul was reasoning with for nearly a whole day until the guy fell and broke his neck?? Now I know by that statement you don't know anything about a bible, you heard of it. Do you know what bible means by the way? that statement makes me
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor show me a bible that was around the disciples of Jesus peace be upon him or even the companions of David, or Saul, or Samuel, or Moses, or any of the Prophets of the bible! You don't have that and you'll only have little fragments (not from there time of course). The linguistic miracle is enough for the Quran, as well as the historical (such as the bible being wrong concerning the leader in the time of Yosuf alayhisalam, there was no pharoah there was only a king)
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ wonder if you even know why a bible is called a bible. What linguistic miracle? Do you know what a Miracle is? I have researched Muhammad when I was asked to by a Muslim who wanted me to consider Muhammad, and I found not one miracle of this man, nothing. The bible is wrong about nothing, who are you trying to fool? me, someone who have done great studies on past empires and their origin. You fools go around claiming Babylonian roots when Babylon was a Black nation.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ and your Persians, What is Islam purer in that Judaism? Their is no such thing as Judaism. Lol, Judaism was derived from the Judah the last remnant that remained after Israel was destroyed by Babylon. Later your great nation(Persia/Ishmael) as you like to brag re-instated it as a country, so I guess the Jews own you some kind of debt. Then Judah was destroyed by Rome and the Jews(Judah) fled. The Jews now claiming to be Jews are fools as they are claiming a Nationality not
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ religion. Finally their is no more Judah, So someone calling them self a Jew is foolish. They were simply called Jews because they were from Judah. God only has belief and faith, that's it. Christians are called Christians because they follow Christ(Not all). Originally they were called Jews, but after the fall of Israel?Judah do show a difference in those who expected a worldly Messiah so save Israel and those who accepted Christ they became Christians.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Those in the chain of narration need to be reliable, if it is established that it is a hadith than we accept it. The below quoted would Never be a hadith. The only hadith that I know that relates to lying is that it is premissible to deceive in times of war, and there are plenty of Wisdoms behind that. But lying in general is not permissible.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor how about the fact that Islam is much more pure in monotheism than Judaism? You guys lay INSULTS on the Prophets peace be upon him. Lot had sex with his girls? Noah cursed his son for looking at him naked for no reason? Solomon died as a pagan!! David set up his top general to be killed to marry his wife!? Come on I don't believe this nonsense. The Prophets of Allah are the honored men of Allah!
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ What insults on the Prophets, God tells the truth. Think he is going to hide their faults, then that would make him a liar. Yes Lot had sex with his daughters, Noah cursed his son for trying to have homosexual relationships with him, Solomon died allowing Pagans to carry out rituals in his country. David killed a man for his wife. And what was the outcome? They were punished for their sins, or did you not read that part. And they repented. Bible is not like your book
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ which hide away all the little dirty details of Prophet Muhammad. So again lets be real, why should I honor Muhammad with the privilege of being called a Prophet when he is not. Do you know Muhammad is the first Perfect Prophet created by two human beings in history. Even Abraham sinned when he made his wife go down to Egypt and lied about not being his wife, and again by sleeping with Hagar. But Muhammad he is perfect. Again lets be real here
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Actually Muslims don't say Abraham sinned, even the version of that story is different in our books where the lie was clearly justified, and sleeping with Hagar? Sleeping with slaves was permissible in the bible so to make that point is very ignorant. And you clearly didn't answer any of the other points nor are you even CONSIDERING his prophet hood. A shame indeed.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Well your book likes to paint a perfect picture of the Prophets, make them seem Super human. Only person who lived with out sin was Shiloh. Who do you think we are, God? God says All have sinned, their is none perfect. I guess now I see your reasoning. You don't know anything about a bible, just here say. Its not permitted to sleep with a slave in the bible. lol after seven Years a slave was free to go. Do you even know what the word slave their means. lol she was a Concubine
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Yes sinned, but major disgusting sins like having sex with your daughters? Minor sins and mistakes are for any humans, but the Prophets of Allah are above that. Don't be a liar. Those slaves you are talking about were slaves of ISRAEL! And since when did the law of Moses apply to the law of Abraham? Two different times two different codes of law. Do you have to sin to not be perfect? Allah is not perfect because he doesn't sin rather he is perfect because he is God.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Lol Abraham was an Adulterer, first figure out what a concubine is and then what Marriage is before Jumping the gun.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
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FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Also I forgot to mention, the reason I can't consider his Prophet hood is because you are the ones making him a false Prophet not me. Your the ones claiming he is the one spoken of by Moses, when all scripture indicates he is not. Someone laying claim to something and their is nothing to back his claim is a false Prophet. That's what am thought from young as a Christian, and that's what I will maintain. I will take Muhammad over the Jewish liars. But I still can't.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Well who is that Prophet than? How about in the beggining of John when the rabbis asked who is "That Prophet" to John the baptist. He said hes NOT the messiah, hes NOT that Prophet, and he is not Elijah. Where in the scripture does it indicate. Did not God say that the inhabitants of Kedar will sing a NEW SON from GOD? What does that mean? A new scripture, who is Kedar? The son of Ishmael and he lived in Mecca. He is the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ new song**
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ God is perfect because he is God? Well I guess the "gods" of earth are perfect because they are "gods". John never pointed to Muhammad in any writings. What does Kedar singing a new song have to do with Muhammad claiming to be the Prophet spoken of by Moses? Arabs did not become Monotheistic under Muhammad, that is a lie. Their were Arabs who were Jews and Christian living in those lands who Muhammad slaughtered. I never said Solomon died a Pagan.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor It wasn't "Kedar" it was the inhabitants of Kedar, that is the people of Mecca. A new song from GOD, meaning a new revelation meaning that the revelation will be given. The only revelation that was ever given to Mecca was the one given to Prophet Muhammad. John did say that he wasn't THAT Prophet so there was another Prophet being suspected who will not be from Galiliee. What do you mean that is a lie LOL.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Arabs become monotheistic and there idols were destroyed and the only god to be worshipped is the One God. Yes but Jews created there own laws so they made there selves their own Lords and that is associating partners with God. Once again Jews were killed through wars or they were EXILED! The only time the Jews were killed was because of treason. They betrayed there contract and than wanted to lead pagans to kill the Muslims who were not fighting. So the Jews...
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor were being terrorists in that regard. Even in the bible the act of treason calls for death. And the bible claims that Solomon was tempted by some women and died as a pagan.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@FATAL12SKILLZ Muhammad laying claim to being the Prophet spoken of by God automatically makes him a false Prophet, also the bible those not teach of a last Prophet, never did never will.
Adriangrosvenor 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor but the scripture did speak about THAT Prophet who was still to be suspected during the time of Jesus peace be upon him! Did he come or not?
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor The hadith narrations have been a scholarship since the time of the students of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. So it is a very well narrated, preserved, tradition the Muslims have which is much stronger than what the Christians and Jews have. There books are long gaps away from the actual Prophets or even the companions/ disciples of those Prophets or even there students!
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor Is a revelation (so called "song") sent to other than a messenger? Well the Arabs became monotheists at the hand of The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and Allah guided them.
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
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@Adriangrosvenor this is a hideous lie on our Father Abraham. Than why is it that God never said anything to Abraham? And he said he will bless Ishmael? And he gave good tidings about Ishmael? Would he give good tidings about a Bastard. You Christians are sick and perverted in the head how could you even claim this? Even Moses (in the old testament) permitted
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Adriangrosvenor do you really really believe Solomon died as a Pagan? A Prophet of God?
FATAL12SKILLZ 4 months ago
@Msunbird02
And as for your lame defence on the death penalty for rapists,
In the Holy Qur'an It says: ....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all of mankind. (5:32)
Moses (Pbuh) was a muslim (muslim means submitted all his will to god) dont let the word in arabic be a barrier for the close minded who dont wish to explore and seek knowledge.
The Holy Qur'an mentions all what the prophets say jus in more detail
wiseeyes001 6 months ago
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Msunbird02 6 months ago
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@wiseeyes001
LOL Such are the many contradictions in the Qur'an.
Moses was a Hebrew rescued as a baby by the Egyptian Pharaoh's daughter from the Nile (long before Islam) was invented.
Msunbird02 6 months ago
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wiseeyes001 7 months ago
"Once again the bible is supported by evidence", seems a little exaggerated, since there is mostly no evidence for anything that book says, only evidence that proofs it is all BS. But that shouldn't bother you guys much, since you make a virtue out of believing anything on "faith", don't you?
boomtao 7 months ago
I don't see how this was a devastating blow to bible sceptics.
I don't know of any biblical scholars who claim that all of the Old or New Testament are false. This is a strawman argument.
However, from a historical point of view, even some biblical scholars accept that most of the Cornerstone events in the Bible, i.e the Exodus, The flood, the kingdom of David and Most of the story of Jesus are dubious to say the least and are not backed up by any other verifable evidence other than the Bible.
HonestMan395 7 months ago
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HonestMan395 7 months ago
"Spider-man skeptics suffered a devastating blow when archeologists discovered what they believe to be the still thriving city of New York."
jussts 8 months ago
Almost everybody, including most atheists, knows there's a certain amount of history in the Torah. Only a believer could think it's all true. And even if it were all based on actual events, you can't read any work of history as if it's a total truth.
Really, where the hell does anyone get the idea that if one believable part of the bible is true that all the ridiculous stuff must be?
There is a reason why this hasn't been news.
BenjaminTLaing 10 months ago
doesnt proove there is a god.
FixedByDoc 10 months ago
@plugsocket100
I think that when the facts speak the gods remain silent.I know at least 7 jewish people and strangly until this day 4 of them are hated by the community, simply because they behave so high and mighty towards everyone else, they always think the jew is superior, he is somehow blessed by someone, he is smarter, he is richer, he is higher...
Well the world doesnt like their unhuman behaviour and this is why we hate jews, Christ called them ''wicked'', ever wondered why?
NEMESIS1999 1 year ago
@NEMESIS1999 -I say this with the utmost respect. I don't think it wise to quote Jesus out of context. ESPECIALLY when you assign such hatred to him this in reply to you end comment. When Jesus said the Jews were "wicked" He was NOT referring to ALL Jews, but instead to those at the temple who were trading money and not adhering to the laws of Judaism. Jesus never said in any way shape or form that ALL Jews were wicked. Even if you don't believe, PLEASE respect everyone, we respect your rights
IdontLikeEBAYeither 9 months ago
''Because our GOD is greater than other Gods''...........if you don't see the arrogance in this statement then you must be blind.
As if they say, ''Because we jews are the greatest nation amongs all nations'' and that same arrogance exists until our days, today the jews are as arrogant as ever the same as their ancestors were.
Do you understand why people hate the jews now?
NEMESIS1999 1 year ago
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The film seems to read far too much into this. The story of King Solomons Mines relates to a great source of wealth. All we have here is a copper mine in opperation in the 10th century BC in Jordan. Big deal, copper mines had been in existance for thousands of years by then. Its not even in the right place. Solomons great source of wealth was supposed to have been accessed by a fleet travelling down the Red Sea away from Jordan.
commonberus1 1 year ago
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commonberus1 1 year ago
This guy sounds a bit like McGruff the Crime Dog. He should of said "Take a bite out of my temple!"
xsnrgman 1 year ago
This is fascinating but I don’t see how it causes skeptics to suffered a devastating blow. All it really does is to prove that this single fact from the bible is correct, it does nothing to verify the rest of the book. It still comes down to a matter of belief, one that skeptics do not share. And that is of course their right, just as it is the choice of adherents of religion to choose to believe.
dwellyn 1 year ago
@dwellyn Not quite. This information acts to verify the site's actual existence as stated in a sacred text. If anything, it adds considerable weight / value to the credibility and validity of other claims made in the same book.
Msunbird02 1 year ago
The Bible says that There are books that have been sealed and will not be opened or understood until the latter days
Thundralight 1 year ago
@Thundralight can you list your sources what part(s) of the scripture say this please?
brimarie1981 1 year ago
@brimarie1981I cant quote exact verse . I think one is in Daniel where he is told to seal up the prophecy and it will not be able to be understood until the later days. Another is in book of Revelation about 7 thunders and to seal up what this says.
Thundralight 1 year ago
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@Thundralight Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Is that the verse your vefering to. I like to read Daniel and Revelations it makes me feel that we are getting so much closer to the return of Jesus.
brimarie1981 1 year ago
Solomon's mines were in Michigan
PhuqueU 1 year ago
@PhuqueU I actually read that there were copper mines on the north side of Lake Superior dating to that same time. It is possible that the Phonecians were employed to go on such voyages....
Thistlesifter220 1 year ago
@Thistlesifter220 Those are indeed Solomon's mines.
PhuqueU 1 year ago
@PhuqueU Don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Thistlesifter220 1 year ago
HA......WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE WITH NO WHERE TO GO*
Tyrotvxxx 1 year ago
@Tyrotvxxx Prove it...
brimarie1981 1 year ago
Oh get over the debate already. Stop watching zeitgeist with 3second bits of formation thrown together. BS If you want to know the truth, first study the God of Abraham. That's who everything is about - including the Messiah. THEN, you can strip away the pagan 'crap' and get to the real Messiah. PULLEASE Even the Pharoah could not find God of Abraham amongst his 'gods'- u know - amongst all those u accuse him of being?
watchthemoviefitna 1 year ago
Interesting, but so are some of the comments below.
DrStevenz 1 year ago
please stop using bible for authentic reference. I'm tired of listening atheist making fun of all religion thanks to the bible. stop this non sense, check out Quran, spend little time on it. 1400 years not a single latter changed.
saadabdulaziz 1 year ago
@saadabdulaziz That is not correct. The Quran has been changed and there are at least 3 known versions that differ from each other.