From what I can gather, Zenos paradox assumes that time is finite (defined by the speed of the turtle and Achilles). Over a finite time of say a minute, It is impossible for Achilles to travel 11 meters while only travelling at 10 meters/1 minute. As the argument is, he’ll only travel 10 meters. Achilles is then asked to travel a further 1.1 meter in 0.1 minutes, again travelling at only 10 meters/ minute (or 1 meter/0.1 minute).With this example, time is finite, and will never exceed 1.2minutes
If time were to be found as finite and the speed of light is the universal speed limit, then a light speed Achilles would never be able to catch an ordinary tortoise given a big enough head start
From what I can gather, Zenos paradox assumes that time is finite (defined by the speed of the turtle and Achilles). Over a finite time of say a minute, It is impossible for Achilles to travel 11 meters while only travelling at 10 meters/1 minute. As the argument is, he’ll only travel 10 meters. Achilles is then asked to travel a further 1.1 meter in 0.1 minutes, again travelling at only 10 meters/ minute (or 1 meter/0.1 minute).With this example, time is finite, and will never exceed 1.2minutes
The turtle is 10 meters ahead. Achilleas runs 10 meters, now the turtle is 1 meter ahead. Achilleas runs 10 more meters, now the turtle is 8 meters behind him.
@KislotaOo That is called discrete physics, congratulations, you just realised something the physics community has failed to understand for centuries.
This is odd o.o I thought this was a simple race to a marked destination at 1st. The turtle is smart I guess, but he definatly wont win at actualy phisical athletics XD
Since the denominator of the fraction never reaches infinity, your hand will never reach the doorknob. Hence, no one is going anywhere and when you never get there you can never do anything.
Regardless of how hard you try, you can never reach an object or destination. For example, if your hand is 1-meter away from a doorknob, in a given amount of time it will be one-half (1/2) that distance. Then in a presumably shorter period of time you hand will again be half or 1/4 that distance, then 1/8, then 1/16, then 1/32, then 1/64, then 1/128 and so on.
Uh, many great philosophers tend to be mathematicians. Infact i believe there is a branch of philosophy specifically dedicated to it. The ontological position of mathematics itself is still debated, so I dont think claiming to know math's position to existance is to intellegant at this point.
But that finite space can be "divided" into infinite pieces because there is NO LIMIT to how many times you can put a 2 under an number.
Uh, many great philosophers tend to be mathematicians. Infact i believe there is a branch of philosophy specifically dedicated to it. The ontological position of mathematics itself is still debated, so I dont think claiming to know math's position to existance is to intellegant at this point.
But that finite space can be "divided" into infinite pieces because there is NO LIMIT to how many times you can put a 2 under an number.
Uh, many great philosophers tend to be mathematicians. Infact i believe there is a branch of philosophy specifically dedicated to it. The ontological position of mathematics itself is still debated, so I dont think claiming to know math's position to existance is to intellegant at this point.
But that finite space can be "divided" into infinite pieces because there is NO LIMIT to how many times you can put a 2 under an equation.
After learning about Zeno's paradoxes I've started living my life after this rule. I never get anywhere except at the most the halfway to wherever I'm going, everything else is an illusion!
This is what happens when philosophers start thinking of themselves as mathematicians or physicists. There is a difference between integers and real numbers, you should know it.
What a bunch of crap. Once achilles catches up to the tortoise, they will be at the same place but achilles will be moving at a much faster speed in that moment. He will then pass him in the next instant. If this story made sense, then... what am I even trying for, it makes no sense at all.
@TimeEinstein exaclty . If Aquiles had to literally walk exactly where the turtle walked then it would be impossible. Everybody is assuming that they are side by side on the race.
Doesn't make sense unless Achilles is a dot and the turtle is a dot and they race in a line in a 2 dimensional plane, or unless Achilles is a retard and doesn't want to move past the turtle because he thinks it's impolite.
Ofcourse you can always run pass the turtoise...There is no logic in Zeno's argument of being unable to catch up, I mean, it does not even matter if it's a turtoise or what not, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, IS BE FASTER THAN THAT WHICH YOUR RUNNING UP AGAINST. No explanation needed, just simply, RUN FASTER!!!!
It seems more manipulation on the part of the tortoise than that of an actual paradox. Achilles's movements are restricted to only covering the distance that the tortoise has covered, then covering the extra distance, and so on and so on. A stop and go action.The tortoise thus becomes more or less an enormous slow continuous moving wall that Achilles cant pass. Speed and total distance is left out of the equation.
Then they race and Achilles wins and the turtle feels like a dumbass and Achilles realizes what kind of bullshit the turtle has been giving him, piles of bullshit.
Isn't this the same kind of paradox of diving a piece of anything until it can't be divided anymore? That's just math working on a different level than reality, or our level of reality.
It's not really a paradox as it's a way to confuse a person who doesnt like thinking to much. A fun thing to think of, but not so special once you think about it.
I am confused with this idea... A faster object will undeniable catch up to slower object. Otherwise racing would be impossible when it's obviously possible. None of this makes any sense. I understand his idea about an arrow to a certain extent. Even then... what I'm trying to say is Zeno is bullshit and I can't even fathom how someone could come to his conclusion.
The turtle mastered the theory of relativity and can freeze time each time Achilles sticks his dick on his ass, thus Achilles will never win the race, noob. pwn3d
@RodHullIOnceWasHim :p well then here's the challenge, prove why it is not so. not by observation which would be way easier but by logic, what mistake did he make? :P, what wrong presumptions did he make, or what variables did he miss?
@sintje21 He assumes that a distance from a to b can be broken down into an infinite number of sections which although possible in maths is not the case in reality.
But isen't math suppose to be compatible with reality, or atleast help us explain it? If something is the case in math but not reality, then we have to stop using math in reality (like any other hypothesis that is proven wrong). But doing that means we basically have to throw engineering, physics, etc.. out of reality, which obviously we are unwilling to do.
As for the direct words in conversation of the story. the turtle says no matter how quickly you reach where I was, I will always be at the same time another step ahead. because you are always starting in my past and I will always have my head start. that bout sums it up in that nutshell i'd say.. what say you .. haha
Well rod, to me. I guess you could put as.. deception put to practice with arrogant confidence, may deter even the most capable of competitors and be a means to victory. A carefully presented argument can act as prevention of validating performance. Why go to war when diplomacy will do just fine. Paradox, i guess.. the good weak underdog loser can still defeat the stronger evil overbearing oppressioner through applying his intellectual capacity to persuasion by misdirection. hows that?
this is absolutely burnt!!!! where is the paradox??? he goes 10 meters to the turtles 1. then the next go will also be 10 meters to the turtles 1. which already puts him 8 meters ahead accilies is some kind of stupid i guess.
Its fallacy is always that it only defines time to some increment along the timeline prior to passing. If it had started off with Achilles traveling 20 M rather than 10m, he would have passed the tortoise. this is like a simple math problem that you would give someone when they started algebra. I wonder if the ancient saw fallacy or is it that the math just didn't exist then?
Its not the number of time because you can always break any finite length into an infinite number of pieces its just that the increment of time become infinitely small and meaningless. The key is both Achilles and the tortus are traveling at a constant speed.
If you solve the math Achilles will pass the tortus after 11 and 1/9 meters
It took me ages to see what it was even on about it makes so little sense... I couldn't even grasp the tortoises idea until I recorded myself reading the story and listened to it over and over...
What it shows is that phyosophy is to be mistrusted as at least in this example it shows how a powerful and "seemingly" reasonable argument and be complete and utter bullshit...
If anyone disagree's just walk from one side of your room to the other and you have rendered this paraox piffle!!!
This has been flagged as spam show
From what I can gather, Zenos paradox assumes that time is finite (defined by the speed of the turtle and Achilles). Over a finite time of say a minute, It is impossible for Achilles to travel 11 meters while only travelling at 10 meters/1 minute. As the argument is, he’ll only travel 10 meters. Achilles is then asked to travel a further 1.1 meter in 0.1 minutes, again travelling at only 10 meters/ minute (or 1 meter/0.1 minute).With this example, time is finite, and will never exceed 1.2minutes
geraint1985 2 months ago
If time were to be found as finite and the speed of light is the universal speed limit, then a light speed Achilles would never be able to catch an ordinary tortoise given a big enough head start
geraint1985 2 months ago
From what I can gather, Zenos paradox assumes that time is finite (defined by the speed of the turtle and Achilles). Over a finite time of say a minute, It is impossible for Achilles to travel 11 meters while only travelling at 10 meters/1 minute. As the argument is, he’ll only travel 10 meters. Achilles is then asked to travel a further 1.1 meter in 0.1 minutes, again travelling at only 10 meters/ minute (or 1 meter/0.1 minute).With this example, time is finite, and will never exceed 1.2minutes
geraint1985 2 months ago
The turtle is 10 meters ahead. Achilleas runs 10 meters, now the turtle is 1 meter ahead. Achilleas runs 10 more meters, now the turtle is 8 meters behind him.
KislotaOo 9 months ago 6
@KislotaOo more like 7 meters but still i agree i dont see the argument...
TheLastheart1 6 months ago
@KislotaOo That is called discrete physics, congratulations, you just realised something the physics community has failed to understand for centuries.
id1337x 4 months ago
This is odd o.o I thought this was a simple race to a marked destination at 1st. The turtle is smart I guess, but he definatly wont win at actualy phisical athletics XD
omgitsvikka 9 months ago
Since the denominator of the fraction never reaches infinity, your hand will never reach the doorknob. Hence, no one is going anywhere and when you never get there you can never do anything.
DongusEddy 9 months ago
Regardless of how hard you try, you can never reach an object or destination. For example, if your hand is 1-meter away from a doorknob, in a given amount of time it will be one-half (1/2) that distance. Then in a presumably shorter period of time you hand will again be half or 1/4 that distance, then 1/8, then 1/16, then 1/32, then 1/64, then 1/128 and so on.
DongusEddy 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RodHullIOnceWasHim
Uh, many great philosophers tend to be mathematicians. Infact i believe there is a branch of philosophy specifically dedicated to it. The ontological position of mathematics itself is still debated, so I dont think claiming to know math's position to existance is to intellegant at this point.
But that finite space can be "divided" into infinite pieces because there is NO LIMIT to how many times you can put a 2 under an number.
UncannyRicardo 10 months ago
@RodHullIOnceWasHim
Uh, many great philosophers tend to be mathematicians. Infact i believe there is a branch of philosophy specifically dedicated to it. The ontological position of mathematics itself is still debated, so I dont think claiming to know math's position to existance is to intellegant at this point.
But that finite space can be "divided" into infinite pieces because there is NO LIMIT to how many times you can put a 2 under an number.
UncannyRicardo 10 months ago
@RodHullIOnceWasHim
Uh, many great philosophers tend to be mathematicians. Infact i believe there is a branch of philosophy specifically dedicated to it. The ontological position of mathematics itself is still debated, so I dont think claiming to know math's position to existance is to intellegant at this point.
But that finite space can be "divided" into infinite pieces because there is NO LIMIT to how many times you can put a 2 under an equation.
UncannyRicardo 10 months ago
I love this...excellent!!!
ghettsabz 10 months ago
I love this...excellent!!!
ghettsabz 10 months ago
After learning about Zeno's paradoxes I've started living my life after this rule. I never get anywhere except at the most the halfway to wherever I'm going, everything else is an illusion!
nesi13 11 months ago
@nesi13 Haha. I just like how smug tortoises can look if you give them an English accent :)
RodHullIOnceWasHim 11 months ago
This is what happens when philosophers start thinking of themselves as mathematicians or physicists. There is a difference between integers and real numbers, you should know it.
MagicHandedAlex 1 year ago
What a bunch of crap. Once achilles catches up to the tortoise, they will be at the same place but achilles will be moving at a much faster speed in that moment. He will then pass him in the next instant. If this story made sense, then... what am I even trying for, it makes no sense at all.
wdb1111 1 year ago
zeno arrow moves in space only and not in time.
TimeEinstein 1 year ago
@TimeEinstein exaclty . If Aquiles had to literally walk exactly where the turtle walked then it would be impossible. Everybody is assuming that they are side by side on the race.
tabamoura 1 year ago
Doesn't make sense unless Achilles is a dot and the turtle is a dot and they race in a line in a 2 dimensional plane, or unless Achilles is a retard and doesn't want to move past the turtle because he thinks it's impolite.
WavesOfTrolls 1 year ago
This is CRAP!
Ofcourse you can always run pass the turtoise...There is no logic in Zeno's argument of being unable to catch up, I mean, it does not even matter if it's a turtoise or what not, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, IS BE FASTER THAN THAT WHICH YOUR RUNNING UP AGAINST. No explanation needed, just simply, RUN FASTER!!!!
joricofernandez 1 year ago
It seems more manipulation on the part of the tortoise than that of an actual paradox. Achilles's movements are restricted to only covering the distance that the tortoise has covered, then covering the extra distance, and so on and so on. A stop and go action.The tortoise thus becomes more or less an enormous slow continuous moving wall that Achilles cant pass. Speed and total distance is left out of the equation.
bigjohnsludge 1 year ago
Then they race and Achilles wins and the turtle feels like a dumbass and Achilles realizes what kind of bullshit the turtle has been giving him, piles of bullshit.
esopbelac94 1 year ago
Isn't this the same kind of paradox of diving a piece of anything until it can't be divided anymore? That's just math working on a different level than reality, or our level of reality.
It's not really a paradox as it's a way to confuse a person who doesnt like thinking to much. A fun thing to think of, but not so special once you think about it.
Kan2209 1 year ago
great job, i love it
TheyCallMeConfucious 1 year ago
I am confused with this idea... A faster object will undeniable catch up to slower object. Otherwise racing would be impossible when it's obviously possible. None of this makes any sense. I understand his idea about an arrow to a certain extent. Even then... what I'm trying to say is Zeno is bullshit and I can't even fathom how someone could come to his conclusion.
Ainulph 1 year ago
@Ainulph Spot on! That's why I posted it. This shows how philosophy can explain credibly such utter "utter" crap!
He is basically saing you can't walk from one end of a room to the other (You can only tend to your destination).
Your reaction of being annoyed by it is the correct one! I just want to punch him in the face "flat handed" myself :)
RodHullIOnceWasHim 1 year ago
The turtle mastered the theory of relativity and can freeze time each time Achilles sticks his dick on his ass, thus Achilles will never win the race, noob. pwn3d
WavesOfTrolls 1 year ago
@RodHullIOnceWasHim :p well then here's the challenge, prove why it is not so. not by observation which would be way easier but by logic, what mistake did he make? :P, what wrong presumptions did he make, or what variables did he miss?
sintje21 1 year ago
@sintje21 He assumes that a distance from a to b can be broken down into an infinite number of sections which although possible in maths is not the case in reality.
RodHullIOnceWasHim 1 year ago
@RodHullIOnceWasHim
But isen't math suppose to be compatible with reality, or atleast help us explain it? If something is the case in math but not reality, then we have to stop using math in reality (like any other hypothesis that is proven wrong). But doing that means we basically have to throw engineering, physics, etc.. out of reality, which obviously we are unwilling to do.
I nice paradox indeed.
UncannyRicardo 10 months ago
Interesting.
jihoo134 2 years ago
This Example is Ridiculous
You should have just stuck with the arrow :D
because Achilles would most like keep going the same speed and would easily pass up the tortoise and win the race!
Stopfollowingme646 2 years ago
As for the direct words in conversation of the story. the turtle says no matter how quickly you reach where I was, I will always be at the same time another step ahead. because you are always starting in my past and I will always have my head start. that bout sums it up in that nutshell i'd say.. what say you .. haha
calholli 2 years ago
I'll always tend towards your position unless reality get's in the way and I run straight past you and go directly to bed...
RodHullIOnceWasHim 2 years ago
hahahahahahahahahaha
'a
ahaahahahahaha
ahahahahah ... nice.. fucking beautiful
.. I almost broke my chair when I fell out of it.. its been fun..
calholli 2 years ago
Well rod, to me. I guess you could put as.. deception put to practice with arrogant confidence, may deter even the most capable of competitors and be a means to victory. A carefully presented argument can act as prevention of validating performance. Why go to war when diplomacy will do just fine. Paradox, i guess.. the good weak underdog loser can still defeat the stronger evil overbearing oppressioner through applying his intellectual capacity to persuasion by misdirection. hows that?
calholli 2 years ago
He was saying it's impossible to move but close enough for me... :)
RodHullIOnceWasHim 2 years ago
this is absolutely burnt!!!! where is the paradox??? he goes 10 meters to the turtles 1. then the next go will also be 10 meters to the turtles 1. which already puts him 8 meters ahead accilies is some kind of stupid i guess.
calholli 2 years ago
Glad to see it made to angry too...
RodHullIOnceWasHim 2 years ago
ahahahh lol angry? hell no.. I just can't see how anyone would could be sucked into such foolishness... should be called zenos dry comedy..
calholli 2 years ago
What was he saying, in a nutshell, which is obviously not true...?
Just out of interest...
RodHullIOnceWasHim 2 years ago
Its fallacy is always that it only defines time to some increment along the timeline prior to passing. If it had started off with Achilles traveling 20 M rather than 10m, he would have passed the tortoise. this is like a simple math problem that you would give someone when they started algebra. I wonder if the ancient saw fallacy or is it that the math just didn't exist then?
BigAtheist 3 years ago
So how many times does Achilles have to make up the distance between them?
agnostic79 2 years ago
Its not the number of time because you can always break any finite length into an infinite number of pieces its just that the increment of time become infinitely small and meaningless. The key is both Achilles and the tortus are traveling at a constant speed.
If you solve the math Achilles will pass the tortus after 11 and 1/9 meters
BigAtheist 2 years ago
Not a bad retelling of the original story, and also pretty good Thunderf00t impression.
Xeno's Paradox is one of those things that only doesn't make sense if you think about it way too much.
dechha1981 3 years ago
It took me ages to see what it was even on about it makes so little sense... I couldn't even grasp the tortoises idea until I recorded myself reading the story and listened to it over and over...
What it shows is that phyosophy is to be mistrusted as at least in this example it shows how a powerful and "seemingly" reasonable argument and be complete and utter bullshit...
If anyone disagree's just walk from one side of your room to the other and you have rendered this paraox piffle!!!
RodHullIOnceWasHim 3 years ago