Noahide Laws vs Asher Meza Part 1 - God's law obsolete?

[NoahideTube]

Yosher koach! You are awesome for doing these response videos. Keep up the good work.  =)

[Hesediah]

@NoahideTube Thank you so much for the encouraging words. Hope I stay true to Torah. Bless you!

[superdave9002]

Hesediah, kol ha kavod to you for your videos.

While, as a Jew, I warmly welcome you to Judaism, however I fully respect your decision to be a Noahide.

You, by explicitly acknowledging God's Unity have shown that you are a brother to all Israel, and therefore you and other Noahides will never become Christian, since that is a denial of God's Unity. You and others in the Noahide movement, are, I firmly believe are part of God's plan- "Bayom ha hu yihyeh Hashem echad u shemo echad".

[Hesediah]

@superdave9002 Thank you for your kindness. "... until His name is one?" Definitely. We both long for that day! I do hope that Israel can lead this world into the messianic age so that we get it the easier way and not the harsher way. I pray that you are among them too. Respect!

[Kittenkattan]

That is why for those who come to the Torah, and they take hold of it (Proverbs 3:17-19), they will come in contact with the Tree of Life. Why would you only take only part of Life, instead of taking it whole? No one would, in their right mind take on part of life, They would take on it in whole, and everlasting. That is why it is the same Covenant. There are no mention of "Noahide Laws" in the Torah. There is only the Torah. It is like Marriage, it is All or Nothing. You can't go half way!

[Hesediah]

@Kittenkattan Not sure how your words fit. But if I understand them correctly, you'll be disappointed with the rest of this series. I am a Noahide who firmly accepts the notion of the Noahide laws and their existence both in the written and oral torah. I see Torah includes laws for Jews and gentiles, the 613 for Jews and the 7 for gentiles. I also accept that Genesis-Deuteronomy was written by Moses as given to him by God. Your comments are appreciated but we're not on the same page.

[Kittenkattan]

@Hesediah

You are correct, we are not on the same page. I studied Biblical history and unfortunately there was another group of said "Noahides" about 1763 years ago; that when times got tough for the Jewish people, they denied their association with the Jews and became Government sanctioned. They became the Early Christian (Roman Catholic Movement). I believe that History is about to repeat itself for the same error.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan Again, BULLSHIT. Cite some primary sources! You're fantasizing. Have you had a stroke?

[Kittenkattan]

@Hesediah

Con't..... That is why I feel that the Noahide movement is problematic. It will come a time, maybe in one generation, maybe two, that Noahides will want more than just "second class stasis". That is why I am a strong proponent of conversion. Rabbi Maza is correct. Don't go half way, become part of Whole Israel.

Peace.

John.

[Hesediah]

@Kittenkattan Your studies give you a certain outlook. Mine gives a different one. I deal with this supposed "second class status" myth later on in the series. This "half way house" view of being a Noahide is wrong because, as Asher said, a Noahide is simply a non-Jew. Being observant of the laws for Gentiles just makes one a good Noahide, nothing else. A true half way house is a person going towards conversion which does not describe staying a Noahide. We'll have to disagree about history.

[Kittenkattan]

@Hesediah

"We'll have to disagree about History", You might as well disagree on the Holocaust! History is what it is! The followers of Jesus(Yeshua Ben Yosef), thanks to Paul became Noahides (Acts 15, 21, and Paul's Galatians). This is a fact of History! Just as it is that due to the Anti-Semitism of such Noahide figures of John Chrysostom, and Marcion of Sinope, made it possible for Noahides to not only Hate Jews but blame them for the death of their Master (A Jew).

[Hesediah]

@Kittenkattan Again, as Asher stated: "Noahides are simply non-Jews" So a gentile doesn't become a Noahide: he IS a noahide, a descendant of Noah. Followers of Jesus didn't become Noahides, they became christian, a religion separated from traditional Judaism. I wouldn't use the new testament to get facts of history. Once noahides adopt a worldview other than that of the 7 laws of Judaism, i.e., christianity, bad things will happen. If that's your reason to drive for conversion, it not solid. 

[Kittenkattan]

@Hesediah

May I suggest that you read a few books! Christians were not call Christians until after 120CE. Read "James the Brother of Jesus", Caesar's Messiah, etc. This just scratches the surface of the knowledge that is out there. R. Maza is trying to prevent another holocaust by openly offering conversion to all who desire it and not giving folks a alternative to Torah. That is how Christianity got started! I would please remember that ignorance of history means you are damned to repeat it!

[Hesediah]

@Kittenkattan "History I am damned to repeat? Ah, conviction to a belief. Conviction in itself isn't a bad thing. I prefer to understand concepts and truths rather than probabilities about the past and theories. Thanks for the recommendation and the condemnation. Reading books like "the Divine code" given and approved by knowledgeable Jewish rabbis shows that the 7 noahide laws are not an alternative to Torah but part of it.

[IWannabeJew]

@Hesediah Yes, OF COURSE the Noahide Laws are part of the Torah. It is those who would pretend to hack down a straw-man who push the idea that doing the Noahide Laws isn't doing Torah where non-Israelites are concerned.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan Wake up! Letting bad converts into the congregation of Israel isn't going to prevent a Holocaust. It will only increase the number of those who will be killed.

Christianity did not arise from the God-Fearing movement. It merely poached its members, transformed them into Christians. Christianity was created by the Roman Flavian family as a consolation religion for the destruction of the Temple and an idolatrous alternative to Judaism.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan Again, you are so full of shit! James gave the directive in Acts 15. Paul preached HELLENISM.

[Kittenkattan]

@IWannabeJew

Uzi,

You want to talk to me about this subject that is fine. If you want to call me names, then we are done. I will not have an academic debate when you devolve to a base behavior. You and I do agree on one thing the reemergence of a type of Christianity can not rise again. And that is my whole point. Not to mention that you seem to have a sore spot when it comes to conversion. May I suggest you change you YouTube name to stop confusing people that you wish to convert.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan No, I'm done with you. I am SICK of every iteration of attack on Judaism that you can think up.

Christianity is ALREADY HERE! It doesn't need the miniscule Noahide Movement to do WHATEVER IT WISHES to do to the Jewish People and Judaism. You're talking BULLSHIT!

You neither understand the meaning of my username nor what my plans are.

[Kittenkattan]

@Hesediah

My Family died in the Holocaust. I spent my entire adult life trying to figure out how two monotheistic religions became bitter enemies. After 20 years of study, I realized what it was, Noahidism and ignorance. The first brought the second. I am not going to allow another 2000 years to pass to fix this problem again! As you are of obvious African decent, the last thing you want is second class status! Why allow it on a spiritual level?

The choice is yours of course. Choose well.

[Hesediah]

@Kittenkattan Sad for your loss in the Holocaust. It's a mistake to blame so called "Noahidism". African, Jamaican, it doesn't matter my descent. What matters is the truth about the Noahide laws. I won't repeat myself about the "second class" myth. Discussing things in this fashion rarely changes points of view. You've stated your disagreement. I've stated mine against your opinion of what being a Noahide is. Leave it there.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan You are so full of shit! Noahidism didn't bring ignorance. Pauline Christianity, the dissollution of the Torah, did! Your message is nothing but a repackaging of that "no Jew or gentile" B.S.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan Why wait a generation? Some Noahides want to convert NOW. Noahidism doesn't prevent this.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan After Sinai, the Tanakh is addressed to ISRAELITES! There are exceptions in the Prophets, of course, but the Prophets aren't commanding the Nations to do commandments that were only given to Israel.

[Kittenkattan]

....Con't.....States: “convert who comes to convert” and not “a gentile who comes to convert” for one is already a convert to Judaism before they even go through the ritual of conversion, and this was also so, even before the person was born. To be Jewish, to be of the people of Israel, means to be a member of that Covenant that was made in Deuteronomy 29:14-15.

So, you are right on the money, and on the right path. No one should be withheld from "Taking hold of the Torah" (Proverbs 3:17-19).

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan "convert who comes to convert" is a Hebraism. The Tanakh often translates this way literally. "In deathifying you have deathified" is the Hebrew way to say "have killed".

[Kittenkattan]

You are completely correct. If you look at the entire Torah, it is one complete covenant. You have to also look at the evidence of the Torah itself. The oldest document we have is Deuteronomy. Genesis and Exodus were most likely Oral Traditions based on the evidence we have. If you also look at Numbers, Deuteronomy and Genesis, we see both speak of "Kosher Animals" and the (in Numbers 15:15, that All who come to "Mount Zion" are full Israel., Even the Talmud in Yevamot 47a-47b,.....con't.

[IWannabeJew]

@Kittenkattan Take Numbers 15 back to verse 13 for the proper context. Stop proof-texting. The Torah often says, "This is the Torah of the...". A non-Israelite doesn't get to own land in Israel, just by being there; otherwise, all the damn pseudo-Philistines would have a claim to The Land!