Be very careful, because we have no idea what our hearts are capable of doing. Every Alcholic did not wake up one day and say "My ambition in life is to be a drunk." It all started with one drink. Better be careful with that first sip. Satan has many pretty lures, but every lure has a hook.
@FAnimaniac You are a sinner for the same reason that I am. We were born one. I have seen too many lives destroyed over alcohol. Drinking alcohol does not make anyone a sinner. Being born makes us sinners. For the record, I believe that drinking is wrong and we as Christians can and should live without it.
Absolute Apostasy! The Southern Baptist Convention voted in Prohibition in 1896 because a scholarly study of the scriptures revealed that drinking goes against Christs teachings. What is drunk. According to the law if you have a single drink of alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car you are subject to be found in violation of the law because you are legally drunk. 1 Corinthians 6:10 "drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Stop promoting lies!
shut up. if you want to drink drink as musch as you can everyday. but please dont put Jesus in it. on one side he died for sins and on other he makes wine so that people could drink it to sin.
Deuteronomy 14:L 25-26 "Then shalt thou turn [it] into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household."
@strangerlover11 Fermented grapes without alcohol? How does that work? Non-fermented wine only became regularly available in the 1800s, thanks to Dr. Welch.
You see the problem is that no body knows who is going to become an alcoholic right? but everybody thinks somebody else is not me. You may say I'm going to drink but I'm not going to become an alcoholic. well no body plans to become an alcoholic, no body wake up one morning and say I'm going to do everything I can to become an alcoholic, but it happens. and last but not least for those who say drinking is ok tell me how much is moderation? haw many beers?
@mondragonfco You could make this argument about any sin of excess (gluttony, vanity, pride, etc.), not just drunkenness. Drunkenness is only so compelling in our modern society because our modern diets are so atrocious.
The bigger question when we talk about alcohol is if it is beneficial? Paul says in 2 Corinthians 6:12 everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial. So is it really beneficial and don't come to me with your crap that it is beneficial because the you can see the studies and find out for you self that causes more problems to your health. you can google it and find out for your self.
THESE FOUR FOOLS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING! "Quality wine," "I might be out and having a glass of wine?" What a bunch of fools. First of all, alcohol is an EXCREMENT of the sugar eating bacteria during the fermentation / decomposition / ROTTING process. Second, alcohol makes the red blood cells stick together, blocking capillaries in the brain and causing oxygen starvation / death of brain cells. These people DO NOT understand any of those areas of Scripture. They like to laugh, though.
@valereydyachuk What areas of scripture don't they understand? Funny, you don't mention a single one... There is no reason to assume that a "rotten" food product is bad for you; see for e.g. vinegar, which is incredibly good for the body. Not to mention that sugar (which you mention as being eaten by alcohol, which is true) is far worse for the body than alcohol. Unlike alcohol, it's processed by only the liver, making it a poison. Wine > grape juice, which is basically a junk food/soft drink.
@logichurts OOOOH Mate, with that kind of an outlook, you'll go far, a bit too far. What you need is take into consideration is a SECOND opinion. You need to understand HOW the word oinos and yayin were used in the Scripture and how those words were used in the Greek and Hebrew societies of those times. In order for you to do this, you'll have to spend years of your life. You can shorten this process by reading the works of Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D.
@valereydyachuk With WHAT kind of outlook? Again, you don't say or explain.
Do you honestly think that I haven't read Bacchiocchi? You seem to point to his work continuously. When I get a chance, I'll refer you to a document with, which ONE footnote, pokes a giant whole in his cyclical, self-serving "argument" re: Deut. 14:26.
Unfortunately I can't spend 24 hours on youtube like some others. But do hold me to it. In the mean time I'm sure you can keep yourself with 9-11 conspiracy videos.
@logichurts Mate, my computer is always turned on and some youtube tabs are always open. Don't necessarily mean that I'm here 24 hours. And what did you say about 9-11 conspiracy videos?
And this all just begs the question- what particularly did Bacchiocchi write that contradicts what I"ve written here, in response to you? Once again, you don't say or explain. You just refer me to another source. Convenient.
@logichurts Mate, this youtube is no medium to hold such a complex discussion. If you would like to settle this argument. We can even discuss this over the telephone. I can even provide you my phone number. We will then see how much you know of anything when it comes to oinos and yayin.
Also, please read this in your free time: h t t p : //articles.cnn.com/2008-10-14/health/healthmag.alcohol.brain.shrinkage_1_brain-volume-moderate-drinkers-light-drinkers?_s=PM:HEALTH
@logichurts After reading the link I've provided you, you need to tell me why would our Lord would allow us, or even recommend that we drink this excrement called alcohol.
@logichurts How are you going to explain away this contradicting verse:
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
Also, wine (presumably fermented) was poured onto wounds as an antiseptic:
Luk 10:34 And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
the guy in blue said that there is a lot of scriptures that said that drinking alcohol is good for your stomach, you are very wrong my friend if you are thinking about 1 Thimothy Poul is not saying that is good for you stomach the water in that time was not clean and when you are sick of your stomach you don't want to drink unclean water you should check the context of the verse. is not even scientific proved that alcohol is good to your stomach google it dumb
@mondragonfco I completely agree with you, mate. Wine is rotting grape juice and I can't stand it, the mere smell of it makes me want to PUKE. These fools in this video are early stage alcoholics who are desperately trying to justify their LOVE for this poison. You see, they love to feel good while intoxicated with this poison. They are so far from God that they need to ARTIFICIALLY alter their reality with a poison. True Christians DO NOT need this as they have enough happiness in their hearts.
@valereydyachuk And those who are even FURTHER from God throw out ad hominem, scripture-lacking opinions like these. Don't forget the Bible- It's God's word. Your own personal feelings are not.
@logichurts Well, you can repeat this to yourself all you want BUT, and it's a BIG, whole-bodied BUT:
You'll have to see the other side of the argument, which is FAR more convincing than the flimsy argument these four fools put forth. Look here: watch?v=gi0xOjhZwFM&feature=related
Watch this whole series of videos and come back and we'll see what you have to say.
@valereydyachuk What's wrong with repeating to myself that manipulating scripture is a sin? It's fact.
I never said these four "fools" (judge much?) argue well. I just know that the responses against their view, posted here, are asinine.
I've heard plenty from the other side on this issue. What arguments/points in that series of videos do you agree with? Because we could do this forever. E.g. Go read "God Gave Wine" by Kenneth Gentry and come back and we'll see what you have to say!
i'm 24 years old drink most of the time 5 foot 4 inch male roughly under 200 pounds
and tonight i could not really get drunk, when i was in my local pizza parlor some idiot tryed to slap a girl in the seat in front of me and i said to him wtf are you doing you faggot and then he trys to get smart with me and goes off up the road but my friend would not leave the parlor untill about 15 mins later to make sure the idiot was not outside waitin for us but i wanted to kill him
@RetreersTCG and the old testament also contains deut 14:26, which destroys any notion that drinking any alcohol is a sin. why don't you mention that?
if drinking is sinful because it leads to drunkenness, is eating sinful because it leads to gluttony? have you honestly never heard of sins of excess (pride, gluttony, vanity)? moderation isn't "testing the Lord." it's a regular part of the christian lifestyle.
if people become mean when theyr drunk, its because theyr mean on the inside anyway.. its the same with smoking pot, it simply brings out your inner self...if your an idiot, your going to act a bigger idiot when your drunk...but obviously, its never good to become so drunk that you have accidents.. you could fall off a damn cliff or something similar
This is pathetic, where does it says that Jesus turns water into alcohol? so does that mean that we are only surpose to drink alcohol in the form of wine? he said it's good for the stomach, did he read the earlier parts where it says someone oviously was sick. did the representation of the body and blood of Jesus (wine) alcoholic?
isn't drunkeness a sin? so how would one know how much would make you drunk?
@beedip84 that isn't the only reference to alcohol consumption in scripture. see, e.g., deut 14:26. any assertion that christians may not drink moderately is clealy non-scriptural.
how do we know when too much eating becomes gluttoy? or when too much self-respect becomes pride or gluttony? welcome to the christian principle of moderation.
@logichurts or better yet, how do we know when enough heroine, cocaine and pot is enough to be a sin? there is a big difference between alcohol and food. food is meant for the health of your body overeatting is unhealthy.the most of an excuse for drinking being good for you, is if you have a health problem that it can ease, or you are depressed or mourning,, and then again drinking enough to be drunken is clearly not permitted even under those circumstances.so are you sick and sad and not drunk?
@IWantToKnowChrist None of those are permitted in moderation, like alcohol (see Deut. 14:26), so they are scripturally imcomparable.
Yes, food is meant for health, yet most people I know don't worry about gluttony. Should we eat dessert after dinner, for e.g.? That isn't needed for the body or its health. And what if we cross into gluttony by having too much? Also, drinking in moderation, like eating so, is good for the body, regardless of whether one is depressed/mourning. Simple fact.
@logichurts You have to keep in mind that this chapter DOES NOT advocate purchasing strong drink and drinking it. This type of understanding of this particular area of Scripture goes against dozens of areas of Scripture. You see, in the old days fermented wine was applied to wounds as a disinfectant, I can find it in Scripture later for you. Most likely this was the intended use for it in this chapter.
@valereydyachuk That was certainly a use of alcohol, as affirmed by the Bible. But what are the dozens of verses that Deut 14:26 would contradict, if it advocated drinking the strong drink? The Bible is full of dozens of verses that condemn getting drunk, verses that would simply make no sense if drinking was ipso facto prohibited.
@logichurts bottom line is, if you get drunk, you are in the wrong regardless of how moderate or responsible you think you are. i'm sure many sin is caused by people not admiting that they are wrong.
@IWantToKnowChrist While this doesn't remotely answer any of the questions that I asked, I will say: of course that's the bottom line. But that's the nature of all sins of excess, be it drunkenness, gluttony, pride, envy, etc.
That said, how can any of these sins be caused by someone not admitting they are wrong when they aren't "wrong"? If you are not committing a particular sin of excess because you are acting responsibly and in moderation, then you are simply not "wrong."
FINALLY! A commentary about drinking that is Biblically factual and doesn't try and convince the world that what Jesus drank at passover and weddings was grapejuice! I'm glad some christians out there can actually tell the difference between having a drink and getting drunk, as the Bible can.
I try to tell people this. They don't believe me. I just tell them to read their bible. Drinking is not a sin. Drunkeness is. Why? Because being drunk leads us to sin. We say the wrong things. We sleep with people we shouldnt. we are prone to fight. to cheat. to go to the wrong places and make the wrong decisions. Its not what gos into the mouth that causes a man to sin, its what comes out of the mouth. and what comes out of the mouth, comes out of the heart.
@jasonwkeller76 I find I agree and disagree with you my brother. If drinking causes one to stumble, is not good...Romans 14:21. Also, if our own conscience condemns us, it is indeed sin , for that particular person...Romans 14:23. I need further study on causing others to stumble, to search and find if it is also sinful. But , bottom line, you're right....Matthew 15: 10-11. Of course, Jesus was speaking here of the ceremonial washing of the hands.
Would Jesus give the people more wine to drink to get them to become drunk? after they ran out he gave them more? so their level of alcohol would go up? if they drank alot and didnt get drunk was that unfermented?
@justacomment100 back then, they didnt drink wine straight. the norm was to cut wine with at least three parts water. even romans followed that. they actually considered it barbaric to drink wine straight, and also in the bible when talking about alcohol, it says not to look on the wine when it is red, and when it sparkles in the cup. diluting it causes it to pale, and to lose its co2 which is the source of the 'sparkling'.
@justacomment100 (cont'd) more than likely, the level of alcohol wouldnt dramatically rise in their system. one reason being because of cutting it with water which slows down consumption, and two, new wine indicates a lower percentage of alcohol. old wine is way stronger.
drinking is a sin because what good comes out of it? your happiness should come from the glory of god and love not wine or alcohol usually someone drunk causes accidents, hurts ppl, rude to ppl nothing good comes out of it. hope this makes sense.
"He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." -Psalm 104:14-15
"Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?" -Martin Luther
There is no doubt that this subject is one of great intricacy. And as such we ought to keep the ad hominem and overall sense of vitriol at an microscopic level. There are solid arguments on both ends of the spectrum here; I for one am still slightly on the fence. Please, in the name of being civil, and more importantly being Christlike, let's keep this discussion more diplomatic and less malevolent. Not that it is overt, but name-calling and enmity is very perceptible. Remember, we are a light.
Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried
hmm, actually i studied scripture, and it said your anti alcohol thing is a pile of horse dung. # reformed# presbytery.#org/books/alcoholb/alcoh#olb.ht m#
@medqua wow, thats cool to cuss like that and no i wont shut up i have an opinion and im entitled to it just lik you were to be rude and tel me to STFU. It's a SIN. period.
@medqua of course not but its when people abuse it and i know you dont drink one can of beer or one glass of wine to get drunk theres a huge difference.
I love yall, but this is a truth...not a choice...lol...thanks for hopefully reading this...it is not about judging someone for what they do, put being Holy as He (Jesus) is HOLY now...this as NonsenselnABag stated can hurt some who depend on their example...but to add to that...EVERY FLIPPIN BODY DEPENDS ON YOUR EXAMPLE...you are the only Jesus people will ever see...so if you are really mature in the word you will read this and know its truth...thank you and God Blesses everyday
wow...i don't think you studied before you posted this video...lol...the Bible states clearly that back in old testament times it was ok to drink because of medicinal purposes, or for party's...but once we became the temple of the Holy Spirit that changed 1st Peter 2:5; Aaronic priests were not allowed to have an form of strong drink in the temple, if we are the temple...well, there is a deduction for even the simple, this coupled with Proverbs 31:4&5, and Revelation 1:6 will prove it LOOK IT UP
@MQuillin1 Actually, I'm sure they've studied it more than you have. Do you honestly think this argument hasn't been offered repeatedly over the last few hundred years, and refuted just as many times?
While we are priests, kings and temples of Christ's Church in the figurative sense, you offer no solid explanation as to why the former OT rules regarding those things now apply to individuals (let alone why only SOME of them do, or why such an application clearly contradicts other scripture.)
I believe there is several examples that it is the acts of drunkenness that are sin. Anyone who is mature in the word will understand that drinking is not a sin. Those that have understanding of the word will not judge someone for having a drink.
It is the ignorance of self-righteousnesses and doctrine of man that are the problem. The world will judge us no matter what. But many only judge us because of the listed above.
Relationship with Christ will guide you to whats best for you.
The idea of abstinence from wine as an aspect of service for God is seen in the command to the Priests church leaders: Lev 10v9, Num 6v3. Paul then commands Elder man, Bishops and church leaders BE SOBER.
Therefore sure a christian has liberty to drink but if he wants to serve the Lord with his whole heart then he better think twice about drinking before he gets into leadership. Shalom
Here are a couple more points to consider: 1- Jesus made, drank, and distributed wine. In fact, it was his FIRST miracle! John 2:1 - 11 2- Nothing that enters the mouth can defile a man. Matthew 15:11 3- Believers are not to judge one another on the basis of food, drink, or holy days. Romans 14: 1 - 22 4- God commanded the Jews to use their tithes to have a big party every year and to buy "strong drink" to take to the party. Deuteronomy 14:22-29 Why don't Christians obey their Bibles? Why?
alchol is a sin see people they get high but the real high is getting high on god that high iis indedescrible nothing like it aman peace allah god almighty brahman vahiguru
Drinking is not a sin!!! but people who use that arguement are people who want to get drunk!!! and why put urself in a predictament that the devil can use to get u to sin..its just like pornography. it is not a sin to watch pornography, but it is a sin to Lust...so u pretty much cant have one without the other
You clearly don't know what you're talking about, Nappy. Many of my family members brew their own beer and wine, for example, and we greatly enjoy it in moderation.
But oh wait, we clearly just want to get drunk! You said so, afterall....
Aside from being a complete strawman, your "argument" is completely ridiculous. As with all sins of excess- gluttony, pride, etc.- you can have drinking without excess (drunkenness), just like you can have some junk food without committing gluttony.
I like the point made in this video. I agree with that fact that drinking is mentioned in the bible. Jesus drank. I also agree that we should not drink just to get drunk. Therefore, drinking is okay if of the legal drinking age and if you do it according the how the bible tells us too.
I like the point made in this video. I agree with that fact that drinking is mentioned in the bible. Jesus drank. I also agree that we should not drink just to get drunk. Therefore, drinking is okay if of the legal drinking age and if you do it according the how the bible tells us too.
Ok this annoys me, people who do get drunk are doinging it at of fun, like me, i'm 27, life is short got to have fun when I can, But, I'm responsible I dont drink and drive and end up killing anyone, but because of theology, which is a dictator, to religion is its wrong to get drunk no matter what, which is stupid.
This is so unscriptural. These guys are laughing off the question. There are 2 types of wine or else scripture contradicts itself and we know that isn't true. It's all in the context of scripture which we can see through study that depending on the words used "yayin" (OT) and "oinos" (NT). Please study!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, it's entirely scriptural; far more scriptural than the BS bible-manipulation that you try to pass of as scriptural.
The only way scripture contradicts itself is if drinking is altogether banned (how do we explain Deuteronomy 14:26 in light of such a ban, or the other verses that ban alcohol only in certain cases?). There is nothing contradictory about scripture banning drunkeness but not moderate drinking; it's like gluttony. HTH.
asking "what are the limits" is a perfectly christian question. we can ask "what are the limits" when it comes to drinking, just we can ask the same question when it comes to gluttony. HTH.
The first man answered it correct with the Word, where in essence, the point is to not become drunk with wine. Finished. What is most imporant is to 'Seek ye first the kingdom.' "Stop trying to get as close to the edge as you can and start trying to stay as close to the source (God) as possible..." -Pastor Steven Furtick
Agreed, NaaAdjoa, the point is, one shoudl not become drunk with wine. As for the rest of your post, allow me to ask, do you eat a 100% healthy diet? Do you completely avoid all desserts, or anything with sugar for that matter? Because if you do not, under your (apparent) reasoning, you're "trying to get as close to the edge as you can" (via gluttony).
And that's the point. Having a drink or two is not trying to stand towards the edge. Listen to the video.
@brenwilliams, I have a bit of a problem with your reasoning here. First off, I feel that the need to justify questionable actions through comparing it to other actions is rationalization, and most of the time it is a bit of a red herring. Second, to compare drunkeness to gluttony is almost laughable; there is no said point where we reach "gluttony", it is merely a subjective criterion. With drunkeness, however, there exists no such liberty, rather, the very first sip can impair judgment along
IOW, jhaggerty, your accusation of my "rationalization" of drinking is no different from me accusing you of "rationalizing" the questionable practice of eating junk food. it also lacks any scriptural basis and is instead based on cultural predispositions. consequently, your attempt to distinguish the two is a red herring in itsef.
concluding, i still don't see why the comparison is "laughable." scripturally, it's clear moderate drinking is not forbidden, and consequently, the first sip is clearly not "drunkenness," as is otherwise forbidden. (and on a side note, if you really think the poison we consume as "food" today can't immediately impair judgment, you need to read up).
drunkenness, like gluttony, like greed, like pride, etc. are all sins of excess; there is no subjectivity to them, even if the line is unclear.
along with the fact that there is a legal determining point of what is "drunk." So eating a desert cannot come close to drunkeness in both its vague criteria, as well as another point. This is the effects that drunkeness has. Alcohol can ruin families and lives in an instant. The long term hazards of drinking will and can mentally scar those who are the victims of its abuse. There is no denying its deadly potency, can you make this assertion for food? Certainly not.
I'm not trying to come off as a negative nancy here, all I'm saying is that NaaAdjoa has the best point that exists on this issue in favor of abstinence (well, one of the best). It truly is getting as close to the line as possible without "technically" crossing it, and that is not how Christ would live, and that is not how we should live either.
@jhaggerty93. but that is exactly how Christ lived. He ate and drank just like the rest of us without crossing the line, for He never sinned. that doesn't mean he "got as close to the line as possible...." when he did so.
and what does the legal definition of drunkenness have to do with the scriptural arguments presented here? should we next start using FDA guidelines to determine when we have committed gluttony? IOW, drunkeness and gluttony are similar in that they are both sins of EXCESS.
and you're seriously kidding yourself if you think that overeating (or gluttony) can't ruin lives or families. seriously, just take a look at our modern dietary culture and you will see that this is false.
and even if you were correct, you're confusing effect, for the sin itself. it doesn't matter which action leads to a worse consequence; sin is found in the action itself. consequently, both gluttony and drunkenness remain sins of excess, despite their (potentially) different effects.
So, when Jesus took up the cup of the covenant (4 months after the harvest) unless he performed another miracle (that the apostles didn't think amusing enough to write down) he drank 4 month or older wine.
People do not have to clarify the obvious; saying fermented wine is like saying wet water, you just cant divide them.
It was the custom (deuteronomy) to drink wine and even strong drink at passover. If Jesus defied that custom why didn't the apostles write about that drastic change?
So here is why we know wine = wine and not grape juice.
Grape Juice comes from fresh grapes. Grape juice only stays like grape juice for 3 to 5 days then it begins to naturally ferment.
I know its hard to believe but they didn't harvest grapes year round, there were alot of months where there were no grapes on the vine to make grape juice.
no refrigerators (historically or archeologically) , no plastic casing, no preservatives, they were just not lucky enough to have welches.
Now on the subject of wine verses grape juice I think its so funny that people ask for a reference that shows Jesus drank fermented wine (I have not had any non-fermented wine myself). Why would translators confuse us by using the word wine rather than grape juice? You can find out yourself if you do a little study on the original languages. You cant expect to understand the Bible if you study it in a language it was not given in. But even if you want to debate the original language...
exactly. the bible actually uses the term "grape juice" when it actually means GRAPE JUICE. so why should we then suppose that it uses the term "wine" to mean grape juice elsewhere?
legalists are, in short, out of their minds on this issue.
I'm not arguing against drinking wine. My argument is against your assumption that Jesus drank fermented wine. Jesus clearly came as our High Priest and it is an impossibility that he would have ever drank fermented wine. Consider the following verses carefully:
Leviticus 10 8 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron [the first High Priest], saying, 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons [the subordinate Priests] with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute [law] for ever throughout your generations:
HEBREWS 4 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin [¹breaking a law].
Assuming Jesus was a Levite and descendent of Aaron and his son (requirements for priesthood) you are still wrong because the prohibition was only when ye go into the tabernacle ask any scholar if priests drank when they were not in the tabernacle (temple later). So if Jesus was of Aarons order he could have drank wine or strong drink at any time except when he was in the temple. Yet let me take it a little further if thats not confusing enough.
You are right Jesus is our high priest, yet you are not reading the context. Jesus is not a priest by the order of Aaron, (he wasnt even of the tribe of Levi) he is a priest by the order of Melquisadek, the first priest of God mentioned in Genesis, who ate bread and drank wine with Abraham. Remember what Hebrews is trying to tell us, that the things in the past are shadows of reality.
The tabernacle (a shadow of reality) is a picture of heaven (I hope you agree on this one) therefore taking your assumptions Jesus could have drank without sinning since he drank on earth and not while he was in heaven.
Unfortunately its just not that complicated, he simply is a priest of a different order according to the Bible you read.
Jesus never drank wine dude! He came as our High Priest and a priest was to never touch wine while on priestly duties. There's absolutely NO verse in the Bible that states that Jesus drunk wine. If you find one let me know if i'm wrong!
Isnt determination of sin called judging, thats God's job right? Research, history, the word, prayer/ask him, and common sense(rules, logic, science). Not just the word and your desires. If all that doesn't line up then something in your thinking is wrong. Good link that explains it more than i could:
change the *'s to .'s
logosresourcepages*org/Believers/drinking*htm
After reading that... its not a matter of Sin or not(who cares), is it smart for anyone to drink at all? Most generically NO.
@uraine7626 Gluttony is a sin but the word "Gluttony" refers to anything you do in excess of....anything that puts God last and that activity first is a sin.
It's funny how a lot of Christians want to talk about sins that they don't approve of but when sins that come there way they don't want to listen or talk about it.
WOW this video did nothing but indorse drinking! omg thats horrible. Drinking is a sin and the only reason jesus was drinking wine was becasue thats the only way to preserve the drink that many years back. as far as i now most everyone has a fridge now
I'm not so sure drinking is a sin. However, is it benifitial? Will it become a problem for you? Has it been a problem for you? How would it cause someone to stumble? What they fail to mention is the care and caution one must consider. Alcohol has a progression and can turn itself into a disease befor anyone realizes.
Obviously the choice of abstinence is a quality choice for many who feel the act of drinking could hurt themselves, or those who depend on their example.... but, as they acknowledge here... the act in and of itself is not a "sin."
In the end... it is a "sin" to enter into any act which can knowingly misguide you morally... so if you can't drink responsibly... you shouldn't.
That's not only a christian ideal, but the practical choice of any responsible person.
"Sacrament of Communion he never called it that. lol."
Nice straw-man.
"Wine then was not as potent as it is now."
Ok. It could still get people plenty drunk, as the Bible makes clear. And strong drink, which could be drank in moderation (Deut 14:26) was stronger than many modern wines. So I fail to see your point, if you even have one.
Did Jesus sin by encouraging his disciples to drink wine in the sacrament of Communion (Matt. 26:27-29)? Did Jesus sin when he himself drank alcoholic wine, as he testifies in his own words in Matt. 11:19 and Luke 7:33-34?
To call non-drunken consumption of alcohol a sin is tantamount to denying the perfect sacrifice for sin of Jesus Christ.
Proverbs 31:6 "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro. 3:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."
Mat. 26:11, Mark 14:7, and John 12:8 all tell us that the poor ye shall have with you always. So, I guess the gospel solution to poverty is srong drink.
When he talked about Making someone stumble and he says its not going to cause the other guy to stumble, It can because casuing the person to judge you and have thoughts about u so then yes u made them stumble :o
That is attrocious reasoning. If that's the case, why are we allowed to do anything at all, when anything could make someone, somewhere judge us, and thus stumble?
Be very careful, because we have no idea what our hearts are capable of doing. Every Alcholic did not wake up one day and say "My ambition in life is to be a drunk." It all started with one drink. Better be careful with that first sip. Satan has many pretty lures, but every lure has a hook.
albcdan 3 weeks ago
@albcdan so are you saying that i am a sinner just because i drink??
I believe in jesus my friend!
FAnimaniac 1 week ago
@FAnimaniac You are a sinner for the same reason that I am. We were born one. I have seen too many lives destroyed over alcohol. Drinking alcohol does not make anyone a sinner. Being born makes us sinners. For the record, I believe that drinking is wrong and we as Christians can and should live without it.
albcdan 1 week ago
Hosea 4:6. "My people perish because of lack of knowledge, thats what we see here.
bacfamilyutube 1 month ago
Absolute Apostasy! The Southern Baptist Convention voted in Prohibition in 1896 because a scholarly study of the scriptures revealed that drinking goes against Christs teachings. What is drunk. According to the law if you have a single drink of alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car you are subject to be found in violation of the law because you are legally drunk. 1 Corinthians 6:10 "drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Stop promoting lies!
godlytv 1 month ago
If the wine Jesus made was fermented wouldn't that contradict what the Bible says about being getting drunk?
mikegar23 1 month ago
I wonder if Paul would agree with them if he were alive and sitting right next to them?
Joshblanco1983 2 months ago
shut up. if you want to drink drink as musch as you can everyday. but please dont put Jesus in it. on one side he died for sins and on other he makes wine so that people could drink it to sin.
wwbbeed 3 months ago
Just smoke some weed...
demonxthedk 4 months ago
Turn water to wine this is long ago exsited and been copied to Bible.many pagon
Gods did it before Jesus...hahahah
strangerlover11 5 months ago
Deuteronomy 14:L 25-26 "Then shalt thou turn [it] into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household."
hambone425 7 months ago
Actually Bible many places appreciating wine and many places againt but in reality if
you read the old testament its talk about grapes which fermented and unfermented
but not with alchohol.
strangerlover11 7 months ago
@strangerlover11 Fermented grapes without alcohol? How does that work? Non-fermented wine only became regularly available in the 1800s, thanks to Dr. Welch.
logichurts 5 months ago
You see the problem is that no body knows who is going to become an alcoholic right? but everybody thinks somebody else is not me. You may say I'm going to drink but I'm not going to become an alcoholic. well no body plans to become an alcoholic, no body wake up one morning and say I'm going to do everything I can to become an alcoholic, but it happens. and last but not least for those who say drinking is ok tell me how much is moderation? haw many beers?
mondragonfco 7 months ago
@mondragonfco You could make this argument about any sin of excess (gluttony, vanity, pride, etc.), not just drunkenness. Drunkenness is only so compelling in our modern society because our modern diets are so atrocious.
logichurts 5 months ago
The bigger question when we talk about alcohol is if it is beneficial? Paul says in 2 Corinthians 6:12 everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial. So is it really beneficial and don't come to me with your crap that it is beneficial because the you can see the studies and find out for you self that causes more problems to your health. you can google it and find out for your self.
mondragonfco 7 months ago
@mondragonfco So I just googled it. And I found out that drinking in moderation is beneficial.
logichurts 5 months ago
THESE FOUR FOOLS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING! "Quality wine," "I might be out and having a glass of wine?" What a bunch of fools. First of all, alcohol is an EXCREMENT of the sugar eating bacteria during the fermentation / decomposition / ROTTING process. Second, alcohol makes the red blood cells stick together, blocking capillaries in the brain and causing oxygen starvation / death of brain cells. These people DO NOT understand any of those areas of Scripture. They like to laugh, though.
valereydyachuk 7 months ago
@valereydyachuk What areas of scripture don't they understand? Funny, you don't mention a single one... There is no reason to assume that a "rotten" food product is bad for you; see for e.g. vinegar, which is incredibly good for the body. Not to mention that sugar (which you mention as being eaten by alcohol, which is true) is far worse for the body than alcohol. Unlike alcohol, it's processed by only the liver, making it a poison. Wine > grape juice, which is basically a junk food/soft drink.
logichurts 5 months ago
@logichurts OOOOH Mate, with that kind of an outlook, you'll go far, a bit too far. What you need is take into consideration is a SECOND opinion. You need to understand HOW the word oinos and yayin were used in the Scripture and how those words were used in the Greek and Hebrew societies of those times. In order for you to do this, you'll have to spend years of your life. You can shorten this process by reading the works of Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D.
Continued...
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
@logichurts ...Who has compiles all his research into somewhat a concise version: w w w . biblicalperspectives . com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html
Please read it and TRY and find holes it it, IF YOU CAN. Then, we'll talk.
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
@valereydyachuk With WHAT kind of outlook? Again, you don't say or explain.
Do you honestly think that I haven't read Bacchiocchi? You seem to point to his work continuously. When I get a chance, I'll refer you to a document with, which ONE footnote, pokes a giant whole in his cyclical, self-serving "argument" re: Deut. 14:26.
Unfortunately I can't spend 24 hours on youtube like some others. But do hold me to it. In the mean time I'm sure you can keep yourself with 9-11 conspiracy videos.
logichurts 5 months ago
@logichurts Mate, my computer is always turned on and some youtube tabs are always open. Don't necessarily mean that I'm here 24 hours. And what did you say about 9-11 conspiracy videos?
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
And this all just begs the question- what particularly did Bacchiocchi write that contradicts what I"ve written here, in response to you? Once again, you don't say or explain. You just refer me to another source. Convenient.
logichurts 5 months ago
@valereydyachuk See you in a month or so. Sorry if that pains you.
logichurts 5 months ago
@logichurts Mate, this youtube is no medium to hold such a complex discussion. If you would like to settle this argument. We can even discuss this over the telephone. I can even provide you my phone number. We will then see how much you know of anything when it comes to oinos and yayin.
Also, please read this in your free time: h t t p : //articles.cnn.com/2008-10-14/health/healthmag.alcohol.brain.shrinkage_1_brain-volume-moderate-drinkers-light-drinkers?_s=PM:HEALTH
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
@logichurts After reading the link I've provided you, you need to tell me why would our Lord would allow us, or even recommend that we drink this excrement called alcohol.
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
@logichurts How are you going to explain away this contradicting verse:
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
Also, wine (presumably fermented) was poured onto wounds as an antiseptic:
Luk 10:34 And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
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walk out your own salvation with fear and trembling
killwhiteie 7 months ago
why do we have to always act like our opinion and belief is right We need to respect our fellow christians !
killwhiteie 7 months ago
@killwhiteie Amen. Apparently for many here, though, personal opinion and feelings trump even scripture..
logichurts 5 months ago
the guy in blue said that there is a lot of scriptures that said that drinking alcohol is good for your stomach, you are very wrong my friend if you are thinking about 1 Thimothy Poul is not saying that is good for you stomach the water in that time was not clean and when you are sick of your stomach you don't want to drink unclean water you should check the context of the verse. is not even scientific proved that alcohol is good to your stomach google it dumb
mondragonfco 7 months ago
@mondragonfco I completely agree with you, mate. Wine is rotting grape juice and I can't stand it, the mere smell of it makes me want to PUKE. These fools in this video are early stage alcoholics who are desperately trying to justify their LOVE for this poison. You see, they love to feel good while intoxicated with this poison. They are so far from God that they need to ARTIFICIALLY alter their reality with a poison. True Christians DO NOT need this as they have enough happiness in their hearts.
valereydyachuk 7 months ago
@valereydyachuk And those who are even FURTHER from God throw out ad hominem, scripture-lacking opinions like these. Don't forget the Bible- It's God's word. Your own personal feelings are not.
logichurts 5 months ago
@logichurts Well, you can repeat this to yourself all you want BUT, and it's a BIG, whole-bodied BUT:
You'll have to see the other side of the argument, which is FAR more convincing than the flimsy argument these four fools put forth. Look here: watch?v=gi0xOjhZwFM&feature=related
Watch this whole series of videos and come back and we'll see what you have to say.
valereydyachuk 5 months ago
@valereydyachuk What's wrong with repeating to myself that manipulating scripture is a sin? It's fact.
I never said these four "fools" (judge much?) argue well. I just know that the responses against their view, posted here, are asinine.
I've heard plenty from the other side on this issue. What arguments/points in that series of videos do you agree with? Because we could do this forever. E.g. Go read "God Gave Wine" by Kenneth Gentry and come back and we'll see what you have to say!
logichurts 5 months ago
@mondragonfco Googled it again. You're still wrong.
logichurts 5 months ago
This is a biblical, practical dialogue. Thanks for posting.
nateeight5 9 months ago
i'm 24 years old drink most of the time 5 foot 4 inch male roughly under 200 pounds
and tonight i could not really get drunk, when i was in my local pizza parlor some idiot tryed to slap a girl in the seat in front of me and i said to him wtf are you doing you faggot and then he trys to get smart with me and goes off up the road but my friend would not leave the parlor untill about 15 mins later to make sure the idiot was not outside waitin for us but i wanted to kill him
IRISHW4RR1ORX 9 months ago
@RetreersTCG Then Justify Deut. 14:26!!!
Kofboy15 9 months ago
@RetreersTCG and the old testament also contains deut 14:26, which destroys any notion that drinking any alcohol is a sin. why don't you mention that?
if drinking is sinful because it leads to drunkenness, is eating sinful because it leads to gluttony? have you honestly never heard of sins of excess (pride, gluttony, vanity)? moderation isn't "testing the Lord." it's a regular part of the christian lifestyle.
logichurts 9 months ago
You guys seem to be right on. The issue is not complicated Biblically.
prairiemark 10 months ago
if people become mean when theyr drunk, its because theyr mean on the inside anyway.. its the same with smoking pot, it simply brings out your inner self...if your an idiot, your going to act a bigger idiot when your drunk...but obviously, its never good to become so drunk that you have accidents.. you could fall off a damn cliff or something similar
longfootbuddy 11 months ago
This is pathetic, where does it says that Jesus turns water into alcohol? so does that mean that we are only surpose to drink alcohol in the form of wine? he said it's good for the stomach, did he read the earlier parts where it says someone oviously was sick. did the representation of the body and blood of Jesus (wine) alcoholic?
isn't drunkeness a sin? so how would one know how much would make you drunk?
beedip84 11 months ago
@beedip84 that isn't the only reference to alcohol consumption in scripture. see, e.g., deut 14:26. any assertion that christians may not drink moderately is clealy non-scriptural.
how do we know when too much eating becomes gluttoy? or when too much self-respect becomes pride or gluttony? welcome to the christian principle of moderation.
logichurts 9 months ago
@logichurts or better yet, how do we know when enough heroine, cocaine and pot is enough to be a sin? there is a big difference between alcohol and food. food is meant for the health of your body overeatting is unhealthy.the most of an excuse for drinking being good for you, is if you have a health problem that it can ease, or you are depressed or mourning,, and then again drinking enough to be drunken is clearly not permitted even under those circumstances.so are you sick and sad and not drunk?
IWantToKnowChrist 9 months ago
@IWantToKnowChrist None of those are permitted in moderation, like alcohol (see Deut. 14:26), so they are scripturally imcomparable.
Yes, food is meant for health, yet most people I know don't worry about gluttony. Should we eat dessert after dinner, for e.g.? That isn't needed for the body or its health. And what if we cross into gluttony by having too much? Also, drinking in moderation, like eating so, is good for the body, regardless of whether one is depressed/mourning. Simple fact.
logichurts 8 months ago
@logichurts You have to keep in mind that this chapter DOES NOT advocate purchasing strong drink and drinking it. This type of understanding of this particular area of Scripture goes against dozens of areas of Scripture. You see, in the old days fermented wine was applied to wounds as a disinfectant, I can find it in Scripture later for you. Most likely this was the intended use for it in this chapter.
valereydyachuk 7 months ago
@valereydyachuk That was certainly a use of alcohol, as affirmed by the Bible. But what are the dozens of verses that Deut 14:26 would contradict, if it advocated drinking the strong drink? The Bible is full of dozens of verses that condemn getting drunk, verses that would simply make no sense if drinking was ipso facto prohibited.
logichurts 5 months ago
@logichurts bottom line is, if you get drunk, you are in the wrong regardless of how moderate or responsible you think you are. i'm sure many sin is caused by people not admiting that they are wrong.
IWantToKnowChrist 9 months ago
@IWantToKnowChrist While this doesn't remotely answer any of the questions that I asked, I will say: of course that's the bottom line. But that's the nature of all sins of excess, be it drunkenness, gluttony, pride, envy, etc.
That said, how can any of these sins be caused by someone not admitting they are wrong when they aren't "wrong"? If you are not committing a particular sin of excess because you are acting responsibly and in moderation, then you are simply not "wrong."
logichurts 8 months ago
FINALLY! A commentary about drinking that is Biblically factual and doesn't try and convince the world that what Jesus drank at passover and weddings was grapejuice! I'm glad some christians out there can actually tell the difference between having a drink and getting drunk, as the Bible can.
Colthrone 11 months ago
@Colthrone right u r!!!
rafyraf100 7 months ago
I try to tell people this. They don't believe me. I just tell them to read their bible. Drinking is not a sin. Drunkeness is. Why? Because being drunk leads us to sin. We say the wrong things. We sleep with people we shouldnt. we are prone to fight. to cheat. to go to the wrong places and make the wrong decisions. Its not what gos into the mouth that causes a man to sin, its what comes out of the mouth. and what comes out of the mouth, comes out of the heart.
jasonwkeller76 1 year ago
@jasonwkeller76 I find I agree and disagree with you my brother. If drinking causes one to stumble, is not good...Romans 14:21. Also, if our own conscience condemns us, it is indeed sin , for that particular person...Romans 14:23. I need further study on causing others to stumble, to search and find if it is also sinful. But , bottom line, you're right....Matthew 15: 10-11. Of course, Jesus was speaking here of the ceremonial washing of the hands.
Maltese280zx 10 months ago
so today are people still diluting it with water? or does it come from the store in different percentages of water to wine ratio?
justacomment100 1 year ago
Would Jesus give the people more wine to drink to get them to become drunk? after they ran out he gave them more? so their level of alcohol would go up? if they drank alot and didnt get drunk was that unfermented?
justacomment100 1 year ago
@justacomment100 back then, they didnt drink wine straight. the norm was to cut wine with at least three parts water. even romans followed that. they actually considered it barbaric to drink wine straight, and also in the bible when talking about alcohol, it says not to look on the wine when it is red, and when it sparkles in the cup. diluting it causes it to pale, and to lose its co2 which is the source of the 'sparkling'.
DarthTwilight 1 year ago
@justacomment100 (cont'd) more than likely, the level of alcohol wouldnt dramatically rise in their system. one reason being because of cutting it with water which slows down consumption, and two, new wine indicates a lower percentage of alcohol. old wine is way stronger.
DarthTwilight 1 year ago
drinking is a sin because what good comes out of it? your happiness should come from the glory of god and love not wine or alcohol usually someone drunk causes accidents, hurts ppl, rude to ppl nothing good comes out of it. hope this makes sense.
99bleeder 1 year ago
"He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." -Psalm 104:14-15
"Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?" -Martin Luther
CantStopTheHopp 1 year ago
lets get fucked up!
taker3106 1 year ago
There is no doubt that this subject is one of great intricacy. And as such we ought to keep the ad hominem and overall sense of vitriol at an microscopic level. There are solid arguments on both ends of the spectrum here; I for one am still slightly on the fence. Please, in the name of being civil, and more importantly being Christlike, let's keep this discussion more diplomatic and less malevolent. Not that it is overt, but name-calling and enmity is very perceptible. Remember, we are a light.
jhaggerty93 1 year ago
@jhaggerty93
a microscopic*
jhaggerty93 1 year ago
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"We should thank God for beer and burgundy by not drinking too much of them." G.K. Chesterton
readchesterton 1 year ago
"We should thank God for beer and burgundy by not drinking too much of them." G.K. Chesterton
readchesterton 1 year ago
There are many verses that denounces alcohol
Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried
shaziluk 1 year ago
hmm, actually i studied scripture, and it said your anti alcohol thing is a pile of horse dung. # reformed# presbytery.#org/books/alcoholb/alcoh#olb.ht m#
medievalman86 1 year ago
Proverbs 23:31 (Contemporary English Version)
31Don't even look at that colorful stuff bubbling up in the glass!
It goes down so easily,
We are not to even look at wine and I really wish you would have your facts straight before you give council to our youth.
yesbrett 1 year ago
People..... Jesus (supposedly) was in a wedding party and when they ran out of booze he turn water into fucking wine. So STFU.
medqua 1 year ago
@medqua wow, thats cool to cuss like that and no i wont shut up i have an opinion and im entitled to it just lik you were to be rude and tel me to STFU. It's a SIN. period.
99bleeder 1 year ago
@99bleeder So.... Jesus was a sinner?
medqua 1 year ago
@medqua of course not but its when people abuse it and i know you dont drink one can of beer or one glass of wine to get drunk theres a huge difference.
99bleeder 1 year ago
I love yall, but this is a truth...not a choice...lol...thanks for hopefully reading this...it is not about judging someone for what they do, put being Holy as He (Jesus) is HOLY now...this as NonsenselnABag stated can hurt some who depend on their example...but to add to that...EVERY FLIPPIN BODY DEPENDS ON YOUR EXAMPLE...you are the only Jesus people will ever see...so if you are really mature in the word you will read this and know its truth...thank you and God Blesses everyday
MQuillin1 1 year ago
wow...i don't think you studied before you posted this video...lol...the Bible states clearly that back in old testament times it was ok to drink because of medicinal purposes, or for party's...but once we became the temple of the Holy Spirit that changed 1st Peter 2:5; Aaronic priests were not allowed to have an form of strong drink in the temple, if we are the temple...well, there is a deduction for even the simple, this coupled with Proverbs 31:4&5, and Revelation 1:6 will prove it LOOK IT UP
MQuillin1 1 year ago
@MQuillin1 Actually, I'm sure they've studied it more than you have. Do you honestly think this argument hasn't been offered repeatedly over the last few hundred years, and refuted just as many times?
While we are priests, kings and temples of Christ's Church in the figurative sense, you offer no solid explanation as to why the former OT rules regarding those things now apply to individuals (let alone why only SOME of them do, or why such an application clearly contradicts other scripture.)
brenwilliams 1 year ago
I believe there is several examples that it is the acts of drunkenness that are sin. Anyone who is mature in the word will understand that drinking is not a sin. Those that have understanding of the word will not judge someone for having a drink.
It is the ignorance of self-righteousnesses and doctrine of man that are the problem. The world will judge us no matter what. But many only judge us because of the listed above.
Relationship with Christ will guide you to whats best for you.
Chuckles5050 1 year ago
ok people read he bible. drunkeness is a sin. Not Drinking. sorry drinking is not a sin period.
alivsfrazier12 1 year ago
The idea of abstinence from wine as an aspect of service for God is seen in the command to the Priests church leaders: Lev 10v9, Num 6v3. Paul then commands Elder man, Bishops and church leaders BE SOBER.
Therefore sure a christian has liberty to drink but if he wants to serve the Lord with his whole heart then he better think twice about drinking before he gets into leadership. Shalom
Thechristiancullen 1 year ago
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Imaginefree69 1 year ago
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Imaginefree69 1 year ago
I guess it depends on your religion and the interpretation of the scripture,,,
BayesianMan 1 year ago
alchol is a sin see people they get high but the real high is getting high on god that high iis indedescrible nothing like it aman peace allah god almighty brahman vahiguru
mosiefool 2 years ago
Drinking is not a sin!!! but people who use that arguement are people who want to get drunk!!! and why put urself in a predictament that the devil can use to get u to sin..its just like pornography. it is not a sin to watch pornography, but it is a sin to Lust...so u pretty much cant have one without the other
NappyRootzz 2 years ago
You clearly don't know what you're talking about, Nappy. Many of my family members brew their own beer and wine, for example, and we greatly enjoy it in moderation.
But oh wait, we clearly just want to get drunk! You said so, afterall....
Aside from being a complete strawman, your "argument" is completely ridiculous. As with all sins of excess- gluttony, pride, etc.- you can have drinking without excess (drunkenness), just like you can have some junk food without committing gluttony.
brenwilliams 1 year ago
its okay if it doesn't control you, there is a fine line. some christians think alcohol is the devil... it can be.
bballcardcollector09 2 years ago
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I like the point made in this video. I agree with that fact that drinking is mentioned in the bible. Jesus drank. I also agree that we should not drink just to get drunk. Therefore, drinking is okay if of the legal drinking age and if you do it according the how the bible tells us too.
LRU09LS 2 years ago
I like the point made in this video. I agree with that fact that drinking is mentioned in the bible. Jesus drank. I also agree that we should not drink just to get drunk. Therefore, drinking is okay if of the legal drinking age and if you do it according the how the bible tells us too.
LRU09LS 2 years ago
Ok this annoys me, people who do get drunk are doinging it at of fun, like me, i'm 27, life is short got to have fun when I can, But, I'm responsible I dont drink and drive and end up killing anyone, but because of theology, which is a dictator, to religion is its wrong to get drunk no matter what, which is stupid.
pbrskater26 2 years ago
This is so unscriptural. These guys are laughing off the question. There are 2 types of wine or else scripture contradicts itself and we know that isn't true. It's all in the context of scripture which we can see through study that depending on the words used "yayin" (OT) and "oinos" (NT). Please study!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
geedup415 2 years ago
Actually, it's entirely scriptural; far more scriptural than the BS bible-manipulation that you try to pass of as scriptural.
The only way scripture contradicts itself is if drinking is altogether banned (how do we explain Deuteronomy 14:26 in light of such a ban, or the other verses that ban alcohol only in certain cases?). There is nothing contradictory about scripture banning drunkeness but not moderate drinking; it's like gluttony. HTH.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
Jesus was always a forkful from glittony and a sip away from drunkeness,as I have heard.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
thats right, and what is the answer?
edwinhoagland 2 years ago
He asks the wrong question right away: he asks "what are the limits?" instead of "how can we glorify God with this issue?"
asdfguy 2 years ago
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brenwilliams 2 years ago
asking "what are the limits" is a perfectly christian question. we can ask "what are the limits" when it comes to drinking, just we can ask the same question when it comes to gluttony. HTH.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
The first man answered it correct with the Word, where in essence, the point is to not become drunk with wine. Finished. What is most imporant is to 'Seek ye first the kingdom.' "Stop trying to get as close to the edge as you can and start trying to stay as close to the source (God) as possible..." -Pastor Steven Furtick
NaaAdjoa 2 years ago
Agreed, NaaAdjoa, the point is, one shoudl not become drunk with wine. As for the rest of your post, allow me to ask, do you eat a 100% healthy diet? Do you completely avoid all desserts, or anything with sugar for that matter? Because if you do not, under your (apparent) reasoning, you're "trying to get as close to the edge as you can" (via gluttony).
And that's the point. Having a drink or two is not trying to stand towards the edge. Listen to the video.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
@brenwilliams, I have a bit of a problem with your reasoning here. First off, I feel that the need to justify questionable actions through comparing it to other actions is rationalization, and most of the time it is a bit of a red herring. Second, to compare drunkeness to gluttony is almost laughable; there is no said point where we reach "gluttony", it is merely a subjective criterion. With drunkeness, however, there exists no such liberty, rather, the very first sip can impair judgment along
jhaggerty93 2 years ago
IOW, jhaggerty, your accusation of my "rationalization" of drinking is no different from me accusing you of "rationalizing" the questionable practice of eating junk food. it also lacks any scriptural basis and is instead based on cultural predispositions. consequently, your attempt to distinguish the two is a red herring in itsef.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
concluding, i still don't see why the comparison is "laughable." scripturally, it's clear moderate drinking is not forbidden, and consequently, the first sip is clearly not "drunkenness," as is otherwise forbidden. (and on a side note, if you really think the poison we consume as "food" today can't immediately impair judgment, you need to read up).
drunkenness, like gluttony, like greed, like pride, etc. are all sins of excess; there is no subjectivity to them, even if the line is unclear.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
along with the fact that there is a legal determining point of what is "drunk." So eating a desert cannot come close to drunkeness in both its vague criteria, as well as another point. This is the effects that drunkeness has. Alcohol can ruin families and lives in an instant. The long term hazards of drinking will and can mentally scar those who are the victims of its abuse. There is no denying its deadly potency, can you make this assertion for food? Certainly not.
jhaggerty93 2 years ago
I'm not trying to come off as a negative nancy here, all I'm saying is that NaaAdjoa has the best point that exists on this issue in favor of abstinence (well, one of the best). It truly is getting as close to the line as possible without "technically" crossing it, and that is not how Christ would live, and that is not how we should live either.
jhaggerty93 2 years ago
@jhaggerty93. but that is exactly how Christ lived. He ate and drank just like the rest of us without crossing the line, for He never sinned. that doesn't mean he "got as close to the line as possible...." when he did so.
and what does the legal definition of drunkenness have to do with the scriptural arguments presented here? should we next start using FDA guidelines to determine when we have committed gluttony? IOW, drunkeness and gluttony are similar in that they are both sins of EXCESS.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
and you're seriously kidding yourself if you think that overeating (or gluttony) can't ruin lives or families. seriously, just take a look at our modern dietary culture and you will see that this is false.
and even if you were correct, you're confusing effect, for the sin itself. it doesn't matter which action leads to a worse consequence; sin is found in the action itself. consequently, both gluttony and drunkenness remain sins of excess, despite their (potentially) different effects.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
So, when Jesus took up the cup of the covenant (4 months after the harvest) unless he performed another miracle (that the apostles didn't think amusing enough to write down) he drank 4 month or older wine.
People do not have to clarify the obvious; saying fermented wine is like saying wet water, you just cant divide them.
It was the custom (deuteronomy) to drink wine and even strong drink at passover. If Jesus defied that custom why didn't the apostles write about that drastic change?
meheco1 2 years ago
So here is why we know wine = wine and not grape juice.
Grape Juice comes from fresh grapes. Grape juice only stays like grape juice for 3 to 5 days then it begins to naturally ferment.
I know its hard to believe but they didn't harvest grapes year round, there were alot of months where there were no grapes on the vine to make grape juice.
no refrigerators (historically or archeologically) , no plastic casing, no preservatives, they were just not lucky enough to have welches.
meheco1 2 years ago 2
Now on the subject of wine verses grape juice I think its so funny that people ask for a reference that shows Jesus drank fermented wine (I have not had any non-fermented wine myself). Why would translators confuse us by using the word wine rather than grape juice? You can find out yourself if you do a little study on the original languages. You cant expect to understand the Bible if you study it in a language it was not given in. But even if you want to debate the original language...
meheco1 2 years ago
exactly. the bible actually uses the term "grape juice" when it actually means GRAPE JUICE. so why should we then suppose that it uses the term "wine" to mean grape juice elsewhere?
legalists are, in short, out of their minds on this issue.
brenwilliams 2 years ago
You still have not shown to me where the Bible states that Jesus drank fermented wine! It is a ridiculous assumption based on your own opinions!
NewInChrist 2 years ago
I'm not arguing against drinking wine. My argument is against your assumption that Jesus drank fermented wine. Jesus clearly came as our High Priest and it is an impossibility that he would have ever drank fermented wine. Consider the following verses carefully:
NewInChrist 2 years ago
Leviticus 10 8 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron [the first High Priest], saying, 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons [the subordinate Priests] with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute [law] for ever throughout your generations:
NewInChrist 2 years ago
HEBREWS 4 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin [¹breaking a law].
NewInChrist 2 years ago
btw--> ur comment about Jesus slapping me?
very Christian ...(NOT!)
NewInChrist 2 years ago
Assuming Jesus was a Levite and descendent of Aaron and his son (requirements for priesthood) you are still wrong because the prohibition was only when ye go into the tabernacle ask any scholar if priests drank when they were not in the tabernacle (temple later). So if Jesus was of Aarons order he could have drank wine or strong drink at any time except when he was in the temple. Yet let me take it a little further if thats not confusing enough.
meheco1 2 years ago
You are right Jesus is our high priest, yet you are not reading the context. Jesus is not a priest by the order of Aaron, (he wasnt even of the tribe of Levi) he is a priest by the order of Melquisadek, the first priest of God mentioned in Genesis, who ate bread and drank wine with Abraham. Remember what Hebrews is trying to tell us, that the things in the past are shadows of reality.
meheco1 2 years ago
The tabernacle (a shadow of reality) is a picture of heaven (I hope you agree on this one) therefore taking your assumptions Jesus could have drank without sinning since he drank on earth and not while he was in heaven.
Unfortunately its just not that complicated, he simply is a priest of a different order according to the Bible you read.
meheco1 2 years ago
it's not a law, it's a desire to be PURE, HOLY, and BLAMELESS before the Lord, especially as a pastor. i wish you had that.
asdfguy 2 years ago
that college pastor is chatting on ichat! hahaha!
asdfguy 2 years ago
terrible interpretation of scripture, please exegete by context
asdfguy 2 years ago
Jesus never drank wine dude! He came as our High Priest and a priest was to never touch wine while on priestly duties. There's absolutely NO verse in the Bible that states that Jesus drunk wine. If you find one let me know if i'm wrong!
NewInChrist 2 years ago
So Paul was a half weight, big shit. He wasn't " God ". I think I'll tie on a good one tonight.
ReneeNme 2 years ago
Isnt determination of sin called judging, thats God's job right? Research, history, the word, prayer/ask him, and common sense(rules, logic, science). Not just the word and your desires. If all that doesn't line up then something in your thinking is wrong. Good link that explains it more than i could:
change the *'s to .'s
logosresourcepages*org/Believers/drinking*htm
After reading that... its not a matter of Sin or not(who cares), is it smart for anyone to drink at all? Most generically NO.
jaguar8328 2 years ago
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jaguar8328 2 years ago
Gluttony is a sin and that included overeating, drinking, and smoking.
uraine7626 2 years ago 6
@uraine7626 Gluttony is a sin but the word "Gluttony" refers to anything you do in excess of....anything that puts God last and that activity first is a sin.
CaptZor 1 year ago
Drunkness is a sin in the bible
uraine7626 2 years ago 4
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skrimpshidy 2 years ago
It's funny how a lot of Christians want to talk about sins that they don't approve of but when sins that come there way they don't want to listen or talk about it.
uraine7626 3 years ago
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skrimpshidy 2 years ago
Drunkness is a sin, if you read the bible you would know.
uraine7626 2 years ago 2
how many christians do you know? cause thats not a real christian.
mrterryewatts 2 years ago
WOW this video did nothing but indorse drinking! omg thats horrible. Drinking is a sin and the only reason jesus was drinking wine was becasue thats the only way to preserve the drink that many years back. as far as i now most everyone has a fridge now
meganolivia77 3 years ago
I agree, even from the point of an alcoholic.
skrimpshidy 2 years ago
I'm not so sure drinking is a sin. However, is it benifitial? Will it become a problem for you? Has it been a problem for you? How would it cause someone to stumble? What they fail to mention is the care and caution one must consider. Alcohol has a progression and can turn itself into a disease befor anyone realizes.
skrimpshidy 2 years ago
Obviously the choice of abstinence is a quality choice for many who feel the act of drinking could hurt themselves, or those who depend on their example.... but, as they acknowledge here... the act in and of itself is not a "sin."
In the end... it is a "sin" to enter into any act which can knowingly misguide you morally... so if you can't drink responsibly... you shouldn't.
That's not only a christian ideal, but the practical choice of any responsible person.
NonsenseInABag 3 years ago 7
Did Jesus give them fermented wine so they could drink MORE and then become drunk? why would Jesus help their level of alcohol go up?
justacomment100 1 year ago
"Sacrament of Communion he never called it that. lol."
Nice straw-man.
"Wine then was not as potent as it is now."
Ok. It could still get people plenty drunk, as the Bible makes clear. And strong drink, which could be drank in moderation (Deut 14:26) was stronger than many modern wines. So I fail to see your point, if you even have one.
brenwilliams 3 years ago
How is AA working out for you?
Nazi.
brenwilliams 3 years ago
dude i feel horrible cause im smasehed and i had to find out
yocool909 3 years ago
Calling drinking a sin is completely rediculous!
Thank you mothcorrupteth.
Very good point
underfoil 3 years ago
Did Jesus sin by encouraging his disciples to drink wine in the sacrament of Communion (Matt. 26:27-29)? Did Jesus sin when he himself drank alcoholic wine, as he testifies in his own words in Matt. 11:19 and Luke 7:33-34?
To call non-drunken consumption of alcohol a sin is tantamount to denying the perfect sacrifice for sin of Jesus Christ.
mothcorrupteth 3 years ago
It makes more sense that drinking is a sin, its medical benefits are pretty low compared to the harmful things it does.
Both Christianity and Islam give a clear picture of it being against God's teachings.
redhawk19691 3 years ago
"It makes more sense that drinking is a sin"
Yes! Of course! Screw what the Bible says, it just MAKES SENSE.
brenwilliams 3 years ago
Is drinking a sin?
Nope.
peace
boomac62 3 years ago
Proverbs 31:6 "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro. 3:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."
Mat. 26:11, Mark 14:7, and John 12:8 all tell us that the poor ye shall have with you always. So, I guess the gospel solution to poverty is srong drink.
pirbird14 3 years ago
When he talked about Making someone stumble and he says its not going to cause the other guy to stumble, It can because casuing the person to judge you and have thoughts about u so then yes u made them stumble :o
PeterObi 3 years ago
That is attrocious reasoning. If that's the case, why are we allowed to do anything at all, when anything could make someone, somewhere judge us, and thus stumble?
brenwilliams 3 years ago
so if someone judges you then you are making them stumble. That makes no sense.
depechehero 2 years ago
You can't prevent it always but if you know something bothers someone rather don't do it is what it is implying.. because it will make them sin.
PeterObi 2 years ago