Continued: Judging people is wrong because it turns us into unhappy people. Discernment and seeing though people, however, is good. For instance, it is a good idea to keep away from negative and nasty people as much as possible. But that is not the same as judging them.
They should have did the Fountainhead. It was a better book, less extreme and better crafted. At least a bunch of businessmen didn't run off to Colorado.
@UrbyKris,.....and the word "useless eaters" was definitely used by the Nazis a lot. So do YOU believe that there are people in this world who deserve to perish because they are (in your personal opinion) inferior and evil....or do you not believe that?
@2011rosarot sounds like you bought into jewish propaganda. If germans were so racist, why would they allow blacks to compete in the Berlin olympics at all?
@MoneyIsSilver, I don't understand you comment. The term "useless eaters" was not a racist term. The Nazis used this expression to label those Gemans who they (the Nazis) thought of as useless and unproductive members of society.
No, I don't think that they are "evil". That would imply that I believe that they have "free will" and deliberately choose to believe what is obviously harmful and wrong. But they are just immature and don't know it any better. How could I blame them for being ignorant? People with such a simplistic worldview need compassion not judgement. :)
When an adult believes that the world can be neatly devided into "good people" and "evil people", he has a very serious psychological problem and thinks like fascist. The black-and-white worldview is very primitive and only normal for 6-year-olds.
@2011rosarot sooooo....you believe that those who believe in good people and evil people are mentally "bad" and if you don't believe that you are "good"....hmmmm.....
@UrbyKris, Facists always believe that they are superior, strong and good people and that society must purge people who are deemed by the facists to be the cause of decadence and degeneration. THAT is the most important and dangerous part of fascism. So, a fascist is a person with a gigantic ego who feels that he is good and strong and superior and takes pleasure in seeing the "useless eaters" (a Nazi term) perish.
@2011rosarot I've never heard an objectivist say that "society" should be "purged" of anyone. And the fact that they thought that they're "superior, strong and good people" is totally irrelevant. I mean you obviously think your superior than me or that other guy you argued with. Does that make you a fascist?
Useless eaters is a term that originated with all that overpopulation bullshit...
@UrbyKris, no, I am not superior to you, just a little bit wiser in some respects. (In other respects, you may be wiser than I am. :) Do you believe that the world can be neatly devided into "superior/good/strong" people and "inferior/evil/weak people", or not? What exactly do you believe?
@2011rosarot Actually it is black and white. Gray is only a viable concept for those who seek to excuse their own immoral behavior. They refuse to judge others because they are afraid of being judged.
@Huboons, you are mistaken. It is true that people don't like to be judged. But almost all people love to judge others and do it internally - in their thoughts - almost all the time, because it gives them a smug sense of superiority and control. Unfortunately, we have to pay a high price for being judgemental because it inevtiably leads to irritation, dissatisfaction, resentment, vindictiveness and so on. Sooner or later it turns us into chronically grim, bitter, joyless people.
@2011rosarot Sorry, there is immoral and moral and there is no middle ground. You want there to be so you can act immorally and not recognize it as such. Your irrational opinion is based on your need to excuse your own immoral behavior.
@Huboons wow reading this comment and then your previous one its almost like you are trying to be funny. Talking about the consequences of judging others in the previous comment and then so blatantly judging someone in this one. But you can't really help it I suppose, in order for a world to be so black and white you have to have people like you calling the shots...
@TheWillIamLee87 Actually just the opposite is true. I don't want anyone "calling the shots" for anyone else. That's what collectivists like yourself want. In fact it is the basis of your philosophy that your morality be forced on others.
@Huboons Not one word in my comment pointed to my own ideals. I was simply claiming that judgmental bitches like yourself are too intellectually dull to see the world in any terms other than black and white. As expected of someone on your level, you miss the point, label me with probably the only meaningful term that you could siphon from your pitiful mind, then speculate about my philosophy and how I see others. Very impressive, only a truly arrogant dullard could contrive such a response.
@Huboons Who are? What kind of tax? Income tax? Capital gains tax? Taxed when you buy cigarettes or food or video games? There are tons of ways to be taxed. We must have some for the government to be able to work. As to what kind of work a government should be doing, well, that would depend on your view of the limitations of government. Are you a libertarian or a liberal or maybe a social conservative. Your question is very much meaningless due to the immense amount of detail it neglects.
@TheWillIamLee87 Actually its a very simple moral question that requires no context at all. But you did actually answer the it, and confirmed everything I said about your philosophy. And after all that bitchy noise protesting that I couldn't possibly know anything about it.
@Huboons You must realize how pitiful you sound. You really want to come out on top of this and yet you have nothing to say. All you can do is pretend to understand something I said. Just slow down, concentrate and try to type out a clear and concise message. Try to make yourself believable. You can't possibly hope to get away with this claim that you clearly know me and understand the flaws in my reason when I have only asked you to clarify a question.
Philip says 'underprivileged' and 'less privileged' in the book, rather than 'less fortunate'. Do you think Ayn Rand chose to use one rather than the other for a specific reason? I noticed you said 'less fortunate'.
@burr666 I think she used less privileged because "less fortunate" implies that their economic status is by chance, instead of how productive and how hard they works.
the paul larkin portrayal - and rearden's benevolent relationship with everyone - is played out beautifully. such a wonderful, economical expression of the essence of the book, with due additions and nuances. bravo to all.
Continued: Judging people is wrong because it turns us into unhappy people. Discernment and seeing though people, however, is good. For instance, it is a good idea to keep away from negative and nasty people as much as possible. But that is not the same as judging them.
2011rosarot 2 months ago
They should have did the Fountainhead. It was a better book, less extreme and better crafted. At least a bunch of businessmen didn't run off to Colorado.
redshark618 3 months ago
@UrbyKris,.....and the word "useless eaters" was definitely used by the Nazis a lot. So do YOU believe that there are people in this world who deserve to perish because they are (in your personal opinion) inferior and evil....or do you not believe that?
2011rosarot 3 months ago
@2011rosarot sounds like you bought into jewish propaganda. If germans were so racist, why would they allow blacks to compete in the Berlin olympics at all?
MoneyIsSilver 3 months ago
@MoneyIsSilver, I don't understand you comment. The term "useless eaters" was not a racist term. The Nazis used this expression to label those Gemans who they (the Nazis) thought of as useless and unproductive members of society.
2011rosarot 3 months ago
I didn't picture paul larkin like that at all.
Trollbombinc 3 months ago
No, I don't think that they are "evil". That would imply that I believe that they have "free will" and deliberately choose to believe what is obviously harmful and wrong. But they are just immature and don't know it any better. How could I blame them for being ignorant? People with such a simplistic worldview need compassion not judgement. :)
2011rosarot 3 months ago
With all due respect, I read "Atlas Shrugged" the book, but I haven't yet seen the movie. How is it beside the book?
Savemefromhelen 3 months ago
"Evil is only possible by the sanction you give it"
Ayn Rand
apnwahoowa 4 months ago
Your society, is going to have a large role in the world one day. Thank you.
BlackHatZane 4 months ago
Apathy allows bad people to win
dsfdotnet 4 months ago
When an adult believes that the world can be neatly devided into "good people" and "evil people", he has a very serious psychological problem and thinks like fascist. The black-and-white worldview is very primitive and only normal for 6-year-olds.
2011rosarot 4 months ago
@2011rosarot sooooo....you believe that those who believe in good people and evil people are mentally "bad" and if you don't believe that you are "good"....hmmmm.....
berean700 3 months ago
@2011rosarot What if you classify "good" as right and "evil" as wrong?
Fascism merely means the state's control of the economy... (so that's rather ironic...)
Your comment is pretty vague... which is not at all suprising.
UrbyKris 3 months ago
@UrbyKris, Facists always believe that they are superior, strong and good people and that society must purge people who are deemed by the facists to be the cause of decadence and degeneration. THAT is the most important and dangerous part of fascism. So, a fascist is a person with a gigantic ego who feels that he is good and strong and superior and takes pleasure in seeing the "useless eaters" (a Nazi term) perish.
2011rosarot 3 months ago
@2011rosarot I've never heard an objectivist say that "society" should be "purged" of anyone. And the fact that they thought that they're "superior, strong and good people" is totally irrelevant. I mean you obviously think your superior than me or that other guy you argued with. Does that make you a fascist?
Useless eaters is a term that originated with all that overpopulation bullshit...
UrbyKris 3 months ago
@UrbyKris, no, I am not superior to you, just a little bit wiser in some respects. (In other respects, you may be wiser than I am. :) Do you believe that the world can be neatly devided into "superior/good/strong" people and "inferior/evil/weak people", or not? What exactly do you believe?
2011rosarot 3 months ago
@2011rosarot The "they" in the second sentence pertains to fascists
UrbyKris 3 months ago
@2011rosarot Actually it is black and white. Gray is only a viable concept for those who seek to excuse their own immoral behavior. They refuse to judge others because they are afraid of being judged.
Huboons 2 months ago
@Huboons, you are mistaken. It is true that people don't like to be judged. But almost all people love to judge others and do it internally - in their thoughts - almost all the time, because it gives them a smug sense of superiority and control. Unfortunately, we have to pay a high price for being judgemental because it inevtiably leads to irritation, dissatisfaction, resentment, vindictiveness and so on. Sooner or later it turns us into chronically grim, bitter, joyless people.
2011rosarot 2 months ago
@2011rosarot Sorry, there is immoral and moral and there is no middle ground. You want there to be so you can act immorally and not recognize it as such. Your irrational opinion is based on your need to excuse your own immoral behavior.
Huboons 2 months ago
@Huboons LOL :D
2011rosarot 2 months ago
@Huboons wow reading this comment and then your previous one its almost like you are trying to be funny. Talking about the consequences of judging others in the previous comment and then so blatantly judging someone in this one. But you can't really help it I suppose, in order for a world to be so black and white you have to have people like you calling the shots...
TheWillIamLee87 1 week ago
@TheWillIamLee87 Actually just the opposite is true. I don't want anyone "calling the shots" for anyone else. That's what collectivists like yourself want. In fact it is the basis of your philosophy that your morality be forced on others.
Huboons 1 week ago
@Huboons Not one word in my comment pointed to my own ideals. I was simply claiming that judgmental bitches like yourself are too intellectually dull to see the world in any terms other than black and white. As expected of someone on your level, you miss the point, label me with probably the only meaningful term that you could siphon from your pitiful mind, then speculate about my philosophy and how I see others. Very impressive, only a truly arrogant dullard could contrive such a response.
TheWillIamLee87 1 week ago
@TheWillIamLee87 Should I be taxed?
Huboons 1 week ago
@Huboons Who are? What kind of tax? Income tax? Capital gains tax? Taxed when you buy cigarettes or food or video games? There are tons of ways to be taxed. We must have some for the government to be able to work. As to what kind of work a government should be doing, well, that would depend on your view of the limitations of government. Are you a libertarian or a liberal or maybe a social conservative. Your question is very much meaningless due to the immense amount of detail it neglects.
TheWillIamLee87 1 week ago
@TheWillIamLee87 Actually its a very simple moral question that requires no context at all. But you did actually answer the it, and confirmed everything I said about your philosophy. And after all that bitchy noise protesting that I couldn't possibly know anything about it.
Huboons 1 week ago
@Huboons You must realize how pitiful you sound. You really want to come out on top of this and yet you have nothing to say. All you can do is pretend to understand something I said. Just slow down, concentrate and try to type out a clear and concise message. Try to make yourself believable. You can't possibly hope to get away with this claim that you clearly know me and understand the flaws in my reason when I have only asked you to clarify a question.
TheWillIamLee87 1 week ago
Philip says 'underprivileged' and 'less privileged' in the book, rather than 'less fortunate'. Do you think Ayn Rand chose to use one rather than the other for a specific reason? I noticed you said 'less fortunate'.
burr666 8 months ago
@burr666 I think she used less privileged because "less fortunate" implies that their economic status is by chance, instead of how productive and how hard they works.
poopster102 5 months ago
the paul larkin portrayal - and rearden's benevolent relationship with everyone - is played out beautifully. such a wonderful, economical expression of the essence of the book, with due additions and nuances. bravo to all.
kasyapa 9 months ago