Federal Vision on Slavery: PCA Pastor G. Brent Bradley Promotes Slavery

[TheCannonofMohammed]

So if I were to kidnap this guy and his family and send him a continent or so away and sell him he'd be OK with it? Am I missing something here?

[NIKandSi]

@2013volleyballgirl wrote:

"That happens to be MY pastor you are tearing down. If you have a problem with what he is saying you should go to him. I have been attending Westminster for almost 6 years..."

I did. I confronted him and his heresy of irreconcilable paradox in his office. He admitted he thought the Book of James and the Book of Romans were irreconcilable concerning Justification Before God. I resigned from that cult you call a church soon after. Learn Law / Gospel Distinction.

[TheKerneltp]

Judicial slavery is not a biblical penal sanction. This innovation came from Quakers and Unitarians. There is no example of imprisonment for punishment in the Bible except by wicked kings and pagans. The only penal sanctions from Scripture are corporal punishment, restitution and execution. What you approval of is wicked, much worse than the worst Canaanite slavery. BTW, Pastor Bradley specifically said his sermon was not a sanction of slavery in the old South. Try to listen more closely.

[RedBeetle]

@TheKerneltp,

You wrote: "Pastor Bradley specifically said his sermon was not a sanction of slavery in the old South."

Yes, "pastor" Bradley contradicted himself. What else is new? He believes in a heresy called irreconcilable paradox.

Got Logic?

[RedBeetle]

@TheKerneltp

You wrote: "Judicial slavery is not a biblical penal sanction."

It is a reasonable option if done justly, according to Romans 13 and the Institutes Of The Christian Religion.

Do you deny Romans 13? Looks like you do.

Remember, Calvin rejected theonomy in the Institutes. Try to keep up.

[TheKerneltp]

Judicial slavery is not a biblical penal sanction. This innovation came from Quakers and Unitarians. There is no example of imprisonment for punishment in the Bible except by wicked kings and pagans. The only penal sanctions from Scripture are corporal punishment, restitution and execution. What you approval of is wicked, much worse than the worst Canaanite slavery. BTW, Pastor Bradley specifically said his sermon was not a sanction of slavery in the old South. Try to listen more closely.

[RedBeetle]

@TheKerneltp

You foolishly wrote: "There is no example of imprisonment for punishment in the Bible."

Jesus Himself submitted to being imprisoned, chump. Like I said, you need to read Romans 13.

I would also point out to you that the lake of fire seems to be the ultimate prison, but apparently you haven't read the New Testament. Guess who throws the wicked into this prison...anyone....yeah, it's Jesus who sentences them there. Go back to your Federal Vision Catholic whores and cry.

[TheKerneltp]

I read Robbins' pamphlet, "Christianity and Slavery." Robbins asserted that Philemon had sinned against Onesimus. One of his favorite Latin phrases was ipse dixit. He provided no argument,; he just said it. Calvin: "His servant had fled away from him; Paul sent him back, and commended him to his master, and besought his master to forgive his theft. We hence see that the thing in itself is not unlawful." Commentary on Jer. 34:17 Calvin disagreed with Robbins. You selectively cite Calvin.

[RedBeetle]

@TheKerneltp,

This quote you provide does not imply that Calvin believed God did not do away with slavery in said epistle. Remember, Calvin held that something is right or wrong based soley upon God's will, and that essential teaching is consistent with my citation of Calvin in the video and Robbins' commentary, but you're reading it in a way which indicates God is subject to some Platonic ethical code, something rejected in the first book of the Institutes and no where found in Scripture.

[TheKerneltp]

Calvin said: "If, then, servitude were unlawful, the Apostles would have never tolerated it; but they would have boldly denounced such a profane practice had it been so. Now, as they commanded masters only to be humane towards their servants, and not to treat them violently and reproachfully, it follows that what was not denied was permitted, that is, to retain their own servants. We also see that Paul sent back Onesimus to Philemon." I guess he argued from silence too. Jer 34:8-17

[RedBeetle]

@TheKerneltp,

You intentionally stopped quoting Calvin, because you know my quote, which follows and brings all to a conclusion lays your theonomy to waste! Take Calvin's medicine, chump, for Calvin had Romans 13 in mind when spoke to you racists : "BUT AS NO NECESSITY CONSTRAINS US...IN HAVING HIRED SERVANTS AND NOT SLAVES." Jer. 34:8-17. As anyone can see, Calvin rejected theonomy, and in his other books he rejected racism. If you don't agree with Calvin's basic teaching, then say so.

[Doulos7608]

Going out and capturing slaves is condemned in the Torah (Exodus 21:16, Deuteronomy 24:7) as well as the epistles (1 Timothy 1:10), but men selling themselves into slavery to pay off debt is a different thing entirely. Christian slave-masters are commanded to treat their slaves fairly and slaves who are fellow believers as brothers in the Lord, rather than with threats and cruelty.

And we as Christians, should we not delight in our work as slaves of our God and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ?

[RedBeetle]

@Doulos7608,

Any command on how to treat slaves never implies one can own slaves.

Commands do not imply anything. This is basic logic.

You write:  "should we not delight in our work as slaves of our God..."

Here you equivocate on the term 'slaves.' In your question, the term is used metaphorically, but the subject is not slavery as a metaphor. Slavery in the Old South was certainly not metaphorical.

[Doulos7608]

Federal Vision theology is heretical, there is no doubt at all about this... the NAPARC was right to condemn it as they did. At the same time, this man is right on the subject of slavery, I think. We don't declare what is sin, God does. We could also declare that war and military service is inherently sinful because it involves the taking of human life, but Cornelius and the centurion weren't told to abandon their posts. Why is that, unless war itself is not inherently evil? Slavery likewise.

[RedBeetle]

@Doulos7608,

You wrote: "We don't declare what is sin, God does."

Like I said above, God's moral argument against Christians owning slaves is found in the Book of Philemon.

You write: "Why is it that, unless war itself is not inherently evil ? Slavery likewise."

Judicial slavery (the government sending certain criminals to prison) is just, but this is not what we are talking about. We are talking about, for example, slavery as it was in the Old South.

[RedBeetle]

@TheKerneltp,

It's explained in detail in Robbins' commentary. However, since you seem oblivious to basic logic and grammar:

"receive him as myself."

It's in the imperative mood, that means it's a command from Paul. Put the command in standard categorical form, then consider if Paul would be received as Philemon's literal slave. I know that's a lot for you Federal Vision folk, but you have to start somewhere.

Got Logic?

[o3airfilter]

T'nx for the video Monty.

These Federal Vision/Theonomy/... proponents need to be flogged, like in the "good" ol' days.

[quickpost12345]

if i join federal vision will i get a free slave?

[trident343]

Maybe they could do a sermon on the blessedness of murder too! After all, It was the murder of our Lord Jesus Christ which allowed us to be "slaves unto righteousness"

I cant help but think somebody in the Federal Vision camp has a bug up their keister about some lost inheritance due to the emancipation.

[aProdigalChild]

Thank you again Monty.

Federal Vision is repulsive beyond words,turns my stomach,sadly this doesn't shock me.

John Piper's darling friend makes his father,the devil proud.

Slavery?

Really?

[valleytownonly3]

Monty, this is another example WHY it is important to point out heresies. You do such a good job on this and I thank you for you doing it. Matthew.