At 1:47 Mr. Turek says, " Why not kill or rape to get what you want?". Well, sir. because it's Stupid to kill and rape to get what you want. If you have intelligence you realize rather quickly that if you go around killing and raping people you end up being isolated and in misery. It has nothing to do with biblical law. It is just being smart. Smart people don't need a made up man to tell them that treating people with kindness makes you prosperous.
It looks like Hitchens has his hands full against the quick-witted Dr.Turek, whose main specialty is destroying atheists' silly arguments. I'm so glad the earth is 6,000 years old and that Hitchens clearly lost this debate. ha ha I love it.
If all these scientists he's spent 20 minutres misquoting are all wrong...then why is he misqouting them?
I mena if you use somebody to support your point...then say that you siagree with their position....whats the point in using them in any way to support anything you say?
He is totally pandering to the least educated section of the population... people who haven't the first fucking clue!
Unfortunately there are a lot of those... in fact 50% of the population have an IQ below 100
To summarize Turek's 25 min - The universe is so big, complex, and organized so there must be a God - using a bunch of quotes taken out of context. On to Hitch!! 7:55
Hitchens is brilliant by virtue of the words, not his accent. Yes, messages come from minds. That has nothing to do with his idea that we'd all be raping and pillaging without his god.
The raping and pillaging thing is a strawman argument. Human beings are MORAL beings, made in the image of God, whether they believe in Him or not. Sorry, it's part of the human package. We ALL entertain the concept of rightness and wrongness. This CANNOT derive from random molecular interchange in a hunk of brain tissue.
Personally, if a Jew in Nazi Germany, I would have wished that Hitler DID believe in his accountability to a higher power. Would't you?
@greatgulffixed Hitler was a Catholic, which doesn't matter cuz he coulda been an atheist and still a horrible person. Morality doesn't come from your god, it comes from the evolution of our species from primal, nomadic apes to social apes. Question for ya: which god are you talking about? Why do you believe in that particular god and not one of the others?
@greatgulffixed I'm not interested in the distinctions between different versions of similar religious beliefs. Supernatural claims require a whole lot of real evidence to prove it. I'v made no claims. Atheism isn't a claim, it's the denial of a claim that does not meet its burden of proof. Your god might very well be real. I highly doubt it though. This has been interesting but I grow weary of this discussion. I respect your ability to speak in full, coherant sentences though.
Morality is due to evolution? Says who? There is NO way to prove this. It is typical evo mumbo-jumbo to explain away everything in evolutionary terms.
How can any moral standard be attributed to chemical processes in a hunk of tissue? Explain this. And if we are all 'dancing to our DNA'., on what basis can you be sure of anything?
@greatgulffixed I don't particularly care what Hitler's religion is. I don't believe gods exist. There's no good reason to. It's friday and I'm desperately trying to get out of work by five, so I wish you luck and continued success in all your endeavors.
@3234718 Design says an intelligence had to create because the chances of life are minutely small and several famous atheistic scientists have said so.
@3234718 Sorry you're not smart enough to understand Summary. The teleological argument says that something had to design our Universe because if anything were off minutely, we would all be destroyed and we would not exist. there also is no other life elsewhere that we have found so something had to design our world and us, something outside matter space and time because something inside those parameters could not create itself or other things just like just by sheer will power. Scientists agree
@pheonixking52 Do you have any other bad christian apologist arguments you wanna throw out there? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burdain of proof is on you, my friend.
@3234718 if you just listen to Turek and ignore what hitchens says and just listen to him and what he says then you'll see more examples. you do that, i'll just listen to Hitchens, how's that sound?
Respond to this video... Atheist scientist have even agreed. Einstein changed his original theory of relativity by dividing by 0 so that the universe would be static and eternal. Dividing by o is something never to be done in math generally, so he cheated to avoid the proof of an eternal being outside the parameters of space time and matter. Hope that helps.
@gamesbok So you're saying that Einstein didn't divide by 0 in his second theory to make the universe static and eternal? and I can't know if they;re lies, i don't know everything, and neither do you, which means that i could have read something you didn't which means I'm not lying. It also makes you ignorant and immature to try to prove such a trivial point.
@pheonixking52 Einstein's static universe is closed (i.e. has hyperspherical topology and positive spatial curvature), and contains uniform dust and a positive cosmological constant with value precisely ΛE = 4πGρ / c2, where G is Newtonian gravitational constant, ρ is the energy density of the matter in the universe and c is the speed of light.
There is no 'divide by zero' and no implication of an eternal being. Either you're being dishonest or repeating dishonesty from another source.
@gamesbok Or you're quoting bullshit from someone else, i'm not saying his theory you find everywhere, the accepted and correct one said divide by 0. Instead, he changed it to divide by 0 to make the universe static and eternal, but other scientists checked him, and he changed it back. And that is the theory we have today.
You haven't even taken a moment to research this, and it shouldn't even be necessary as it's a well known story in physics. The factor that was fudged was the Cosmological Constant, Λ, Lambda, and it's an addition.
There is no 'divide by zero' and no implication of an eternal being. Either you're being dishonest or repeating dishonesty from another source.
I tried watching most of Turek's arguments in the first video but realized that virtually all of them are the same old rehashed creationist garbage. His arguments have been throughly refuted and debunked by a multitude of people but he continues to make these absurd claims. Whats the point of debating someone that is incapable or unwilling to acknowledge that their reasoning or their arguments are wrong? I really just don't think we should bother debating them.
@Hectom8 he is not saying that the development of morals proves God, he is saying that if there is no Gid, then there is no objective moral, but rather everything is an opinion and no culture can say to any other culture that their morals are incorrect
@pianokid100 And that is exactly why Turek is complete bullshit. Look at the culture of higher primates. I forgot which exact species, but they have been observed to morn the dead. They hang around the body after death for prolonged time as if they are mourning. Apes I believe? Humans are a social species. Just like a pack of animals, there's no benefit from killing each other within the pack. Of course it does occur, but it isn't the norm.
@pianokid100 We have hundreds if not thousands of cultures in the human world. Although we have many differences, we share a lot of the same core values. We love our children (though this love is materialized in different manners) and respect our family and friends (again in different ways, but the core value is the same). That right there is proof enough for me that religion is not required for morals.
omg the theist's argument is so stupid. morals have evolved over millions of years.Humans have been killing each other for no reason from the begining. clans would comptete for food. Old wolrd conquerers would slaufghter indians for their land. The reason we are still laive is because particular gruops with similar views survive to reproduce,those passing their view to their young and giving raise to civilization.
This comment reflects the close-mindedness of most on this site. Plug your ears and go lalala. So sad. Hitchens plays on one string - religion can be evil, therefore God doesn't exist. He's right on the first point.
But who says that God is religious? Christ saved his most scathing remarks for the religious.
Hitchens comes across as ill-prepared for this discussion and falls back on the same tired arguments. This should be obvious to any true skeptic.
To be honest, I don't like Turek's method of presentation. He's quite overbearing. Hitchens gets points for the opposite - but holds the unfair advantage of sounding brilliant by virtue of his British accent. These details should not affect the truth of their assertions, however,
Well, for one. Turek's point about messages being produced only by minds is a good one. Any problems with that?
@greatgulffixed And he's just wrong. I'm an atheist and I deny the existense of his and all other gods. Do I have absolute certainty? No of course not. But I deny the claim that gods exist based on lack of evidence. He doesn't. He asserts that his god exists, and tries to justify it.
@greatgulffixed I'm sorry. He may be wrong, or right. The burden of proof falls on the person making the extraordinary claim. Until real, reproducable, peer reviewable evidence is presented to justify believe that any gods exist, the default belief is atheism. I never said there are no gods. There simply aren't any good reasons to believe that there are.
True, the burden of proof DOES fall on the person make the extraordinary claim. But wait a minute. Aren't YOU making extraordinary claims? That all of life around us came about by blind chance and necessity? That the solid, sound and rational writings of the Bible are mere ignorant or deluded ramblings of madmen? That for no sensible reason a group of Judaistic believers invented an impoverished Messiah who died on a cross - for which they endured torture and death themselves?
@greatgulffixed What extraordinary claim have I made? I don't think there's a good reason to believe gods exist. That's not a claim. It's the rejection of claim. Solid, sound and rational writings of the bible? Wowzer. I'd love to hear some of these solid, sound, and rational writings.
Hold on, now. You are CLAIMING that there's no reason to believe God exists. I am CLAIMING that there ARE reasons to believe God exists. We are BOTH claiming something and rejecting something.
@kly45 Thanks. The less Turek's gobbledygook is heard by the masses, the better. Too many weak minded people out there that are easily swayed by his circular, childish reasoning.
This guy Turek is truly annoying . Someone would need to be excessively stupid to keep delivering these same piss poor and cliched argument over and over again with such utter arrogance.
I wanted so badly to just skip everything Frank Turek had to say (primarily because of his attitude and manner of speaking), but that would defeat the entire purpose of the debate. If you watch a debate and refuse to keep an open mind regarding opposing opinions, how can you expect any different from the other side? Stubbornly clinging to an opinion whilst refusing to allow it to be influenced by anyone else is ignorance, regardless of what your opinion happens to be. Keep an open mind, people.
@JerryChristia completely agree and i forced myself to watch this fool,but when such a person continues to use arguments that are easily refuted such as the second law of thermo dynamics,he does not deserve or warrant my attention or anybody's for that matter.
@PimpMyParadigm yes we do but people that do not study the bible would not know science and mathmatics are thru out scripture. We are living in the 2nd world age which is approx 6000 yrs old. How old the 1st world age is ? We'll we would have to ask the inventor of time GOD.Actually time to we humans is a paradox. The past does'nt exist only thru what we read. The future hasen't happened yet. Present can't be diced into small enough portions to establish the now.Yet we are bound by it. Why? GOD
Three parts in and the six top-rated comments I have read all have the shrill, angst-tinged, ad hominem squeal of young, spoiled children who have fallen out of the ivory tower on their backsides and are angry and disillusioned at the unexplained, and even less understood, force which propelled them from the nest :)
I'm not a Christian (at least I don't identify myself as one) but I do believe in God. Though thanks for showing me how close minded you are. I respect Atheism but if you're going to insult me like that...I just hope not all Atheists are like you....
@OSUfirebird18 I have found exactly ONE who wasn't in hundreds I've encountered on youtube. With few exceptions their arguments have unfailingly been "We are right because we are right, you are wrong because you are wrong...and the proof of this is because you are stupid and delusional." LOL
An atheist cannot know why something is right or wrong without God and we're just molecules? Eh? Okay Frank, let's reduce our brains down to the size of an ant...even an ant will defend a nest, defend a queen, prevent rogue invaders and harm coming itself, it's family. Why? All organisms try to survive and they work rules to help them do that...they adapt....the most adaptable who make rules that help them survive...do so.
So your using a threat as a reason? Well what if I knew I could rape her without getting caught by you or anyone else...then what? Why shouldn't I go with it?
jean piaget, the child psychologist, discovered that morality is something that children develop on their own, given a free environment without coercion.
Jesus is NOT the central figure of the human race. there are 1.5 billion nominally Christians in the world...out of 8 billion
jean piaget, the child psychologist, discovered that morality is something that children develop on their own, given a free environment without coercion.
Books, watches ... we know these things needed designers because they DON'T occur naturally. We know that watches come from watchmakers and that books come from writers. But do trees come from treemakers? Do rocks get made down at the rock factory by rock technicians? Why should we make such a silly assumption with our known universe?
Is it wrong for a lesser evolved species to kill a greater one? Is it wrong for disease organisms, pets or wild creatures to kill Dr. Turek? who are they accountable to? Is it wrong for natural disasters to destroy lives? Logic is evolutionary, animals respond to fierce contests & predation from other species, & adapt to climate, so do we. Wilderbeests will join a fleeing pack at the perception of threat; so do we, in religious escapism to avert suffering.We are just a more evolved species.
BTW these are all the arguments that Plato used for Polytheism, infact he thought monotheism has inherently retarded because who wants to worship a God who isn't all good. No monotheist god is all good if evil exists.
plenty of Christians have believed that God's will is for dead babies to go to hell, especially heathen babies. did they happen to forget the objective truth that tortoring babies was wrong? No, it was just their opinion. all of these are simply artistic perspectives...or perspectives of TASTE. Our "morals" are there to allow us to accomplish our goals.
before you let a christian trick you into thinking they hold the key to objective morality, why is it that none of the old testament laws apply in the modern context? did god change his mind? where is the objective basis for morality in christian theology when the christian view of morality has been open to debate and analysis since it's inception and has undergone numerous changes based on the context of the society, in the same way secular morality has?
If the bible is legit, then God must have bipolar disorder if he says " Thou shalt not kill" and " love thy neighbor" and then he says in Numbers 31 17to kill all everyone including women and children.
Saint Jerome suggested "Placebo" meant in Latin " I shall please" with reference to God. We have no other measuring stick but ourselves as living sentient beings to query the world around us. But Science failed the day it required objectivity in the observer in the quest for Truth. We cannot separate our experience from the world to conclude what the world is about. God is the God of gods. we are gods and that is finally why we strongly suspect and even are haunted by God's Placebo
Turek uses so many of the same old arguments that I hear time and again from theists debating atheism. I'd be happy to stand up at that podium and refute every one of them the same way I always do. And I'm not a scientist or a philosopher or a professor of any kind. I'm just an average guy who knows what I believe (and don't believe.) And most importantly I know why and can defend those beliefs.
I guess I am in the minority here, but I don't see anything terribly objectionable about the guy's ontological arguments. I remain an atheist, and a inductive empiricist, but I get the deistic arguments. It's his last "s" in cosmos that I don't get. I have great conversations about the existence of god with believing friends, and then when they try to somehow link it to Christianity, you see the transparent stupidity. 5 arguments of creation, then a "therefore, Christ was divine." Unbelievable
It took great effort to sit through Turek's ramblings, I eventually tracked through some of it. It really only gets good when Hitchens begins, even though he doesn't say much.
@SurlyCalifornia Haha! Oh you little bitch! Well aren't you outrageous! Bet you're a pro at this keyboard warrior stuff. I'll give you a measured response anyway, because I know you enjoying this.
1) I gave one reason, I have more which I'd prefer to keep private. You and conclusions, ya seem to just love jumping to them :)
2) I don't agree with that ruling, I'm undecided. And until an argument convinces me, it will remain that way.
No need to get angry here, man! I think you need a hug!
@SurlyCalifornia Hitchens is a polemicist, so by his nature encourages disagreement as a means of furthering one's ability to think. I think a lot of people are watching Christopher and drooling over every word he says. This is missing one his clearest intentions. And 'mental stillborn'? That hurts, man.
@SurlyCalifornia You really are an angry person. Surly California indeed. Who said Atheism was a club? You're annoying yourself there, son. Shall I rephrase so you won't get cranky? 'Atheists are too sickeningly smug for me to consider being one of them', at least this is the impression that people like yourself give. If Atheists get angry about piety (btw, believe me I'm in no way pious) then it's only fair that others can 'give a shit if atheists are smug'.
Athiests are too sickeningly smug for me to consider joining them. Hitchens urges you to think for yourselves rather than follow religion. Stop worshipping him like he's a God, you're clearly missing one of the main points of his message.
0:52 - I can name five reasons on the top of my head why participating in genocide or going against a moral code is wrong. It's not intuitive, it is reasonable to not kill people for various reasons. (Look up intuitively on the dictionary)
I had to go through (speedily) Tureks bullshit before finally getting to my genius role model Christopher Hitchens and his inescapable logic.Poor Dr. Turek.Speed to 7:52 to do that.Thanx.
"If we're just overgrown germs with no ultimate purpose, why not kill or rape to get what you want"
Well Mr Turek, if you don't know the answer to that by heart, you have my atheistic empathy.
These moral laws are innately built into all healthy minded human beings and may even be observed in a more or less primitive form in all other species on earth.
Nothing magical here, that requires any kind of supernatural. Just simple evolution as explained by the great Darwin.
The most frustrating thing about Mr. Turek is that he does not present any evidence whatsoever... He merely quotes people and cherrypicks them in a particular manner to try to make a point... It's very difficult to listen to this cacophony of stupidity...
I was waiting for Frank Turek to say "Jesus loves people that have a 650 or higher credit score". Screw these bronze age thumpers, the more you research, the dumber they sound. Do a youtube search on "hitchslap". Hitchins really kicks butt in it!
1:48 : "If we're just overgrown germs with no ultimate purpose, why not kill or rape to get what you want?"
Because it is mutually and collectively beneficial for everyone to treat everyone else as they would like to be treated. Every civilised society in human history has been built on this principle...without it, civilisation as we know it would descend into utter chaos. Is preventing the annihilation of human civilisation enough of a reason for everyone to be moral? I'd say so!
I love how all of yall trash on Turek yet none of you and not even Hitchens in later videos seeing as I've already seen the first debate, have disproved what Turek says. I'm not sure I if I yet completely agree with everything Turek says but I know he beat Hitchens plain and simple. As a debater myself, I know that in an LD round Hitchens would win regardless of public opinion. Love to hear some opinions and love to see some proof disproving Turek.
I think that most people find it difficult to accept the idea of mankind being alone in the universe. To many, it is probably just too frightening and seems without purpose. I think for those people, being cosseted in religion and a thought of eternal life in a heaven allows them to get through each day. At this point in time however, the price we are all paying for this "la-la-land" mentality is unacceptable and it is long overdue that we all grew up and took some responsibility.
His moral arguments are bullshit. The non-aggression principle has nothing to do with existence of a god. Morals are just made up rules to abide by in order for life to be best for everyone.
linguistic argument: good and god share the same etymology, and at one point in time were the same word, and in its early form, the word "good" in fact meant "like God" or "god like" as a method of comparing the definition of good to one of godliness
Im so tired of morons that think they have all the answers. Apparently youtubers are much smarter and can personally debunk the logic of respected members of academia. Give me a break, all you do is read Dawkins or listen to your college professor and become a parasite of their arguments. You never provide any factual support, you rely solely on the faulty logic of the host you stole it from. Matter cannot be self-originating, there you go, atheism debunked... its that simple.
Santa claus, fairy tales, a-deist, Osama bon laden, lack of belief... debate after debate, the atheists never refute anything, they still use those old "let's-lack-a-belief" arguments, this new-atheists are getting very very boring.
The interesting thing about his painting painter theory is it describes a universe in which the universe itself is like a painting, it has a message or purpose rather than being. A painting is an assembly of elements to create visual media. A rock is in no way comparable. Also, if the universe was a painting it would have a message and the fact is it doesn't. A painting has purpose, to entertain, a rock on the other hand has placement, nobody placed the rock for your entertainment.
I will not state a position either way but in my course of watching this debate why does every "atheist" insult and accuse any "creationist" of being unintelligent? Is that how atheists rebuttal anyone who does not agree with their statements? If you like rock and I like country am I a retarded cunt? Grow up and act as intellectual as you claim to be (atheists) and conduct a dialogue! You are discrediting your belief and yourself personally. I don't see Hitchens acting this way at all.
@phunksound There is a simple answer to your question: Creationists = retarded. That said, I think that atheists have a tendency to be pretentious and are often over eager in dismissing theists. Many atheists seem to forget that disbelief in a god does not make them intelligent. Dogs don't believe in god, but I would hesitate to praise their intellectual merit. If you cannot defend your views with intelligence, than you are have no reason to think highly of yourself - theist or atheist.
As I was clicking the link for this video, I was wondering how much longer I have to listen to this asshat repeat the same arguments I've heard be refuted time and time again.
@oskarr45 He tries and fails terribly, and while I DO know a lot more about Christianity than most "Christians" even know about it, even in my believing years I wouldn't have tried these "tactics" or tried to go from an "agnostic" to "deist" to "theist" to "christian" sort of argument.
So many people fall prey to: assuming there HAS TO BE a creator(which is poss.), to: he has a plan for us and watches us(hmmm), to: "I KNOW what it WANTS" and will relay messages through me to others!
@ImBetterthanReligion I agree he is so incredibly painful to listen too but you have to listen to their arguments otherwise we wont be able to fully appreciate the stupidity.
@Skater2Morrow It comes from the long and unfortunate impact of Christianity on people and thus their languages; from the way people who speak English, ended up using the Latin alphabet. Christian rule and saturation for hundreds of years. Christianity has sought out every nook and cranny of thought and language it can, no matter how petty. The meaningless habitual "Jesus" exclamation used to be bad, now you'll take it as a win? Or maybe they were joking with their Jesus use that excited you.
A lot of people seem to talk bad about Frank Turek and try to make him seem like an idiot. The guy is actually very smart and he makes good arguments. In these debates he has to condense tons of information into a 20 minute speech. That's very hard to do.
Before ruling out his arguments, and reasoning, please read his book "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist."
That way you can read and get his whole argument, not a condensed 20 minute version. Great job Frank Turek!
"condensed to 20 min"... Forgive us if we dont give much credit to someone who walks into a debate with an excuse. These are horribe, constantly debunked arguments & if his debating skills isnt up to par with his more detailed book, then maybe he should work on a different approach. Im not Hitchens, Im not an author. I am no a scientist. I am not a philosopher, and even I can EASILY debunk these bullshit arguments. Theyre old, tired, and lame.
Lovin' the Dawkins quote mine at 1:15. Stay classy theists.
whybag 6 days ago in playlist Theist Atheist Debate
Why do Christian speakers always sound like they are talking down to people....or maybe that's just what preaching is....
cyasi 1 month ago
At 1:47 Mr. Turek says, " Why not kill or rape to get what you want?". Well, sir. because it's Stupid to kill and rape to get what you want. If you have intelligence you realize rather quickly that if you go around killing and raping people you end up being isolated and in misery. It has nothing to do with biblical law. It is just being smart. Smart people don't need a made up man to tell them that treating people with kindness makes you prosperous.
MrBeautifulba1 1 month ago
It looks like Hitchens has his hands full against the quick-witted Dr.Turek, whose main specialty is destroying atheists' silly arguments. I'm so glad the earth is 6,000 years old and that Hitchens clearly lost this debate. ha ha I love it.
PulpPractical 1 month ago
If all these scientists he's spent 20 minutres misquoting are all wrong...then why is he misqouting them?
I mena if you use somebody to support your point...then say that you siagree with their position....whats the point in using them in any way to support anything you say?
He is totally pandering to the least educated section of the population... people who haven't the first fucking clue!
Unfortunately there are a lot of those... in fact 50% of the population have an IQ below 100
MumblingMickey 2 months ago
To summarize Turek's 25 min - The universe is so big, complex, and organized so there must be a God - using a bunch of quotes taken out of context. On to Hitch!! 7:55
articfox10 2 months ago 2
Hitchens is brilliant by virtue of the words, not his accent. Yes, messages come from minds. That has nothing to do with his idea that we'd all be raping and pillaging without his god.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
The raping and pillaging thing is a strawman argument. Human beings are MORAL beings, made in the image of God, whether they believe in Him or not. Sorry, it's part of the human package. We ALL entertain the concept of rightness and wrongness. This CANNOT derive from random molecular interchange in a hunk of brain tissue.
Personally, if a Jew in Nazi Germany, I would have wished that Hitler DID believe in his accountability to a higher power. Would't you?
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed Hitler was a Catholic, which doesn't matter cuz he coulda been an atheist and still a horrible person. Morality doesn't come from your god, it comes from the evolution of our species from primal, nomadic apes to social apes. Question for ya: which god are you talking about? Why do you believe in that particular god and not one of the others?
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
#1 What makes you think that Catholics are Christians? They believe MANY non-Christian doctrines.
#2 It's obvious to any rational thinker that Hitler was not a Christian. In his writings. In his actions. By their fruit you shall know them.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed I'm not interested in the distinctions between different versions of similar religious beliefs. Supernatural claims require a whole lot of real evidence to prove it. I'v made no claims. Atheism isn't a claim, it's the denial of a claim that does not meet its burden of proof. Your god might very well be real. I highly doubt it though. This has been interesting but I grow weary of this discussion. I respect your ability to speak in full, coherant sentences though.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
Don't want to weary you. Actually, I've got 4 conversations going on at once here, so maybe I haven't been making my points very well.
However, I HAVE noticed that you grow weary BEFORE you answer my questions. Interesting.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@3234718
Morality is due to evolution? Says who? There is NO way to prove this. It is typical evo mumbo-jumbo to explain away everything in evolutionary terms.
How can any moral standard be attributed to chemical processes in a hunk of tissue? Explain this. And if we are all 'dancing to our DNA'., on what basis can you be sure of anything?
Regarding Hitler, you never answered my question.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed I don't particularly care what Hitler's religion is. I don't believe gods exist. There's no good reason to. It's friday and I'm desperately trying to get out of work by five, so I wish you luck and continued success in all your endeavors.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
You're talking on Youtube when you should be working?
What would the apes think of YOUR morality. :)
Signing off.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed They'd probably yell and throw their poop at me. Have a good weekend
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718 Design says an intelligence had to create because the chances of life are minutely small and several famous atheistic scientists have said so.
pheonixking52 3 months ago
@pheonixking52 Can you rephrase your comment in a way that's intelligable to others? Then I'd be happy to discuss it.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718 Sorry you're not smart enough to understand Summary. The teleological argument says that something had to design our Universe because if anything were off minutely, we would all be destroyed and we would not exist. there also is no other life elsewhere that we have found so something had to design our world and us, something outside matter space and time because something inside those parameters could not create itself or other things just like just by sheer will power. Scientists agree
pheonixking52 3 months ago
@pheonixking52 Do you have any other bad christian apologist arguments you wanna throw out there? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burdain of proof is on you, my friend.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718 if you just listen to Turek and ignore what hitchens says and just listen to him and what he says then you'll see more examples. you do that, i'll just listen to Hitchens, how's that sound?
pheonixking52 3 months ago
@pheonixking52 Do you understand how incoherent that sentence was? I have no idea what you're saying. Try again.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718 let me help you out: ignore what hitchens says and just try to understand turek. and i'll do the same but only listen to hitchens.
pheonixking52 2 months ago
@pheonixking52 I've listened to every word Turek said. I understand him completely. That doesn't make his points valid.
3234718 2 months ago 2
@3234718 Dude, go to his channel - your arguing with literally a twelve year old
articfox10 2 months ago
@articfox10 Ha! It's still fun though.
3234718 2 months ago
Respond to this video... Atheist scientist have even agreed. Einstein changed his original theory of relativity by dividing by 0 so that the universe would be static and eternal. Dividing by o is something never to be done in math generally, so he cheated to avoid the proof of an eternal being outside the parameters of space time and matter. Hope that helps.
pheonixking52 3 months ago
@pheonixking52 One thing you can be sure of is that religious folk, at some point, will lie.
gamesbok 1 month ago
@gamesbok I guarantee so will any atheist at some point. Or agnostic or any other form of belief.
pheonixking52 1 month ago
@pheonixking52 Your lie about Einstein is here in black and white two posts above.
Can you show a lie from an agnostic or atheist anywhere on this page, or is your guarantee yet another lie?
gamesbok 1 month ago
@gamesbok So you're saying that Einstein didn't divide by 0 in his second theory to make the universe static and eternal? and I can't know if they;re lies, i don't know everything, and neither do you, which means that i could have read something you didn't which means I'm not lying. It also makes you ignorant and immature to try to prove such a trivial point.
pheonixking52 1 month ago
@pheonixking52 Einstein's static universe is closed (i.e. has hyperspherical topology and positive spatial curvature), and contains uniform dust and a positive cosmological constant with value precisely ΛE = 4πGρ / c2, where G is Newtonian gravitational constant, ρ is the energy density of the matter in the universe and c is the speed of light.
There is no 'divide by zero' and no implication of an eternal being. Either you're being dishonest or repeating dishonesty from another source.
gamesbok 1 month ago
@gamesbok Or you're quoting bullshit from someone else, i'm not saying his theory you find everywhere, the accepted and correct one said divide by 0. Instead, he changed it to divide by 0 to make the universe static and eternal, but other scientists checked him, and he changed it back. And that is the theory we have today.
pheonixking52 1 month ago
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@pheonixking52
You haven't even taken a moment to research this, and it shouldn't even be necessary as it's a well known story in physics. The factor that was fudged was the Cosmological Constant, Λ, Lambda, and it's an addition.
There is no 'divide by zero' and no implication of an eternal being. Either you're being dishonest or repeating dishonesty from another source.
gamesbok 1 month ago
@greatgulffixed I don't respect your religious beliefs, but I do respect your ability to hold a conversation using complete sentences.
3234718 3 months ago
The torture of having to listen to Turek.
cuevarap 4 months ago 2
I'd love to be half the man Hitchens is.
BritishArrow 4 months ago
Killing babies is not objectively wrong. I believe it to be, of course. But objective? Absurd.
baronlableu 5 months ago
I tried watching most of Turek's arguments in the first video but realized that virtually all of them are the same old rehashed creationist garbage. His arguments have been throughly refuted and debunked by a multitude of people but he continues to make these absurd claims. Whats the point of debating someone that is incapable or unwilling to acknowledge that their reasoning or their arguments are wrong? I really just don't think we should bother debating them.
dan24b 5 months ago
@Hectom8 he is not saying that the development of morals proves God, he is saying that if there is no Gid, then there is no objective moral, but rather everything is an opinion and no culture can say to any other culture that their morals are incorrect
pianokid100 5 months ago
@pianokid100 And that is exactly why Turek is complete bullshit. Look at the culture of higher primates. I forgot which exact species, but they have been observed to morn the dead. They hang around the body after death for prolonged time as if they are mourning. Apes I believe? Humans are a social species. Just like a pack of animals, there's no benefit from killing each other within the pack. Of course it does occur, but it isn't the norm.
iz2sicc 4 months ago in playlist Theist Atheist Debate
@pianokid100 We have hundreds if not thousands of cultures in the human world. Although we have many differences, we share a lot of the same core values. We love our children (though this love is materialized in different manners) and respect our family and friends (again in different ways, but the core value is the same). That right there is proof enough for me that religion is not required for morals.
iz2sicc 4 months ago in playlist Theist Atheist Debate
omg the theist's argument is so stupid. morals have evolved over millions of years.Humans have been killing each other for no reason from the begining. clans would comptete for food. Old wolrd conquerers would slaufghter indians for their land. The reason we are still laive is because particular gruops with similar views survive to reproduce,those passing their view to their young and giving raise to civilization.
Hectom8 5 months ago
7:55 straight to Hitch
3234718 5 months ago 28
@3234718
This comment reflects the close-mindedness of most on this site. Plug your ears and go lalala. So sad. Hitchens plays on one string - religion can be evil, therefore God doesn't exist. He's right on the first point.
But who says that God is religious? Christ saved his most scathing remarks for the religious.
Hitchens comes across as ill-prepared for this discussion and falls back on the same tired arguments. This should be obvious to any true skeptic.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed Can you tell me some examples of the valid points being made by Turek that I'm missing?
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
To be honest, I don't like Turek's method of presentation. He's quite overbearing. Hitchens gets points for the opposite - but holds the unfair advantage of sounding brilliant by virtue of his British accent. These details should not affect the truth of their assertions, however,
Well, for one. Turek's point about messages being produced only by minds is a good one. Any problems with that?
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed And he's just wrong. I'm an atheist and I deny the existense of his and all other gods. Do I have absolute certainty? No of course not. But I deny the claim that gods exist based on lack of evidence. He doesn't. He asserts that his god exists, and tries to justify it.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
Sorry. "But he's just wrong" is not a reasonable answer. Give me a reason to believe you, please.
What's with your statement Turek 'asserts his god exists and tries to justify it'? How is that different from you?
You assert that God DOESN'T exist and try to justify it.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed I'm sorry. He may be wrong, or right. The burden of proof falls on the person making the extraordinary claim. Until real, reproducable, peer reviewable evidence is presented to justify believe that any gods exist, the default belief is atheism. I never said there are no gods. There simply aren't any good reasons to believe that there are.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
True, the burden of proof DOES fall on the person make the extraordinary claim. But wait a minute. Aren't YOU making extraordinary claims? That all of life around us came about by blind chance and necessity? That the solid, sound and rational writings of the Bible are mere ignorant or deluded ramblings of madmen? That for no sensible reason a group of Judaistic believers invented an impoverished Messiah who died on a cross - for which they endured torture and death themselves?
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed What extraordinary claim have I made? I don't think there's a good reason to believe gods exist. That's not a claim. It's the rejection of claim. Solid, sound and rational writings of the bible? Wowzer. I'd love to hear some of these solid, sound, and rational writings.
3234718 3 months ago
@3234718
Hold on, now. You are CLAIMING that there's no reason to believe God exists. I am CLAIMING that there ARE reasons to believe God exists. We are BOTH claiming something and rejecting something.
You can't get yourself off the hook so easily.
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@greatgulffixed
So, you DID listen to him after all?
greatgulffixed 3 months ago
@3234718 Those series of "no Hitch" comments were pretty funny. Just wanted to let you know man
kly45 2 months ago
@kly45 Thanks. The less Turek's gobbledygook is heard by the masses, the better. Too many weak minded people out there that are easily swayed by his circular, childish reasoning.
3234718 1 month ago
@3234718
hahahahaha you read my mind
troy8451 4 weeks ago
This guy Turek is truly annoying . Someone would need to be excessively stupid to keep delivering these same piss poor and cliched argument over and over again with such utter arrogance.
Tobytrim 6 months ago
@Tobytrim and someone would have to be very narrow minded to be able to listen to those argument without understanding them.
sirpercivalblakeney1 4 months ago
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@sirpercivalblakeney1" and someone would have to be very narrow minded to be able to listen to those argument without understanding them"
Oh ....I understand them perfectly, that's how I know they are piss-poor. Would you care to be more specific about what you think I don't understand?
Tobytrim 4 months ago
I wanted so badly to just skip everything Frank Turek had to say (primarily because of his attitude and manner of speaking), but that would defeat the entire purpose of the debate. If you watch a debate and refuse to keep an open mind regarding opposing opinions, how can you expect any different from the other side? Stubbornly clinging to an opinion whilst refusing to allow it to be influenced by anyone else is ignorance, regardless of what your opinion happens to be. Keep an open mind, people.
JerryChristia 6 months ago 11
@JerryChristia completely agree and i forced myself to watch this fool,but when such a person continues to use arguments that are easily refuted such as the second law of thermo dynamics,he does not deserve or warrant my attention or anybody's for that matter.
Flash13Magic 6 months ago
"theres an orderly world"? dont we go out and makes sense of the world through science and create systems like mathematics as tools?
PimpMyParadigm 6 months ago
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chosenwarior 6 months ago
@PimpMyParadigm yes we do but people that do not study the bible would not know science and mathmatics are thru out scripture. We are living in the 2nd world age which is approx 6000 yrs old. How old the 1st world age is ? We'll we would have to ask the inventor of time GOD.Actually time to we humans is a paradox. The past does'nt exist only thru what we read. The future hasen't happened yet. Present can't be diced into small enough portions to establish the now.Yet we are bound by it. Why? GOD
chosenwarior 6 months ago
Three parts in and the six top-rated comments I have read all have the shrill, angst-tinged, ad hominem squeal of young, spoiled children who have fallen out of the ivory tower on their backsides and are angry and disillusioned at the unexplained, and even less understood, force which propelled them from the nest :)
salmagnum 6 months ago
Thank you for posting this, Aught3.
writersblock26 7 months ago
Umm, excuse me but do we not kill to get what we want...Eat meat?
D3maine 7 months ago
...mmm, i'll watch the debate later
JesusLives11keila 7 months ago
7:54 Hitchens...now you can breathe.
papermermaid 7 months ago
all the points of this guys arguement could be applied to a whole pantheon of gods.... yah we get a god buffet!
FUwogs 7 months ago
I respect Atheism but.....can I ask why is it that I only see comments against Turek? Do only Atheists watch this debate?
OSUfirebird18 7 months ago
@OSUfirebird18 yup religious folk are to busy reading fairytales
FUwogs 7 months ago
@FUwogs
I'm not a Christian (at least I don't identify myself as one) but I do believe in God. Though thanks for showing me how close minded you are. I respect Atheism but if you're going to insult me like that...I just hope not all Atheists are like you....
OSUfirebird18 7 months ago
@OSUfirebird18 i ment no offense to you i was insulting credulity
FUwogs 7 months ago
@OSUfirebird18 I have found exactly ONE who wasn't in hundreds I've encountered on youtube. With few exceptions their arguments have unfailingly been "We are right because we are right, you are wrong because you are wrong...and the proof of this is because you are stupid and delusional." LOL
salmagnum 6 months ago
@OSUfirebird18 i know is interesting thats b........
k1ngdragon411 7 months ago
An atheist cannot know why something is right or wrong without God and we're just molecules? Eh? Okay Frank, let's reduce our brains down to the size of an ant...even an ant will defend a nest, defend a queen, prevent rogue invaders and harm coming itself, it's family. Why? All organisms try to survive and they work rules to help them do that...they adapt....the most adaptable who make rules that help them survive...do so.
MusicStudyMan 7 months ago
Does that mean the genocide in the bible is "RIGHT"? So, according to that logic I can go bash a baby against a rock, if I feel god told me to do so.
TheSultan03 7 months ago
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TaoPiet 7 months ago 6
@TaoPiet Right on. These guys always talk in a loud voice to make up for their lack of empirical evidence.
fidomusic 6 months ago
@TaoPiet He doest seem angry to me ... Just passionate. Have you looked at most Atheist comments lately ? Now thats anger.
MultiFisherofmen 6 months ago
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TaoPiet 7 months ago
finally the Hitch i was going to say i was just speeding to his part because i just can listen to the other idiot no more
he just read other peoples work
Johnandvanessa 7 months ago
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8:47 "Wait!, guys...seriously, is there no Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy?!?"
chiachuck 7 months ago
wtf this guy yammered for 3 whole videos! Pu on the Hitch!
Ikorose11 8 months ago
@AtheosRecords
Well what if you didn't have the gun and you couldn't protect her and kill me? Then what?
And no I do not want to rape your daughter. It's hypothetical.
177xxxx 8 months ago
@AtheosRecords
So your using a threat as a reason? Well what if I knew I could rape her without getting caught by you or anyone else...then what? Why shouldn't I go with it?
177xxxx 8 months ago
@AtheosRecords
He's not twisting words.
If I wanted to rape your daughter give me an objective reason why I shouldn't. Why should view your belief as nothing more than a biased opinion?
177xxxx 8 months ago
jean piaget, the child psychologist, discovered that morality is something that children develop on their own, given a free environment without coercion.
Jesus is NOT the central figure of the human race. there are 1.5 billion nominally Christians in the world...out of 8 billion
cirosuperiore 8 months ago
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cirosuperiore 8 months ago
jean piaget, the child psychologist, discovered that morality is something that children develop on their own, given a free environment without coercion.
cirosuperiore 8 months ago
Books, watches ... we know these things needed designers because they DON'T occur naturally. We know that watches come from watchmakers and that books come from writers. But do trees come from treemakers? Do rocks get made down at the rock factory by rock technicians? Why should we make such a silly assumption with our known universe?
backwoodsninja 8 months ago
Is it wrong for a lesser evolved species to kill a greater one? Is it wrong for disease organisms, pets or wild creatures to kill Dr. Turek? who are they accountable to? Is it wrong for natural disasters to destroy lives? Logic is evolutionary, animals respond to fierce contests & predation from other species, & adapt to climate, so do we. Wilderbeests will join a fleeing pack at the perception of threat; so do we, in religious escapism to avert suffering.We are just a more evolved species.
elitevestigator 8 months ago
this is the best presentation i've heard from Dr. Turek
elitevestigator 8 months ago
@elitevestigator
HA then I wonder what his other speeches are like.
FrothySoda 8 months ago
this turk moron's making my head ache!
gregapage 8 months ago
BTW these are all the arguments that Plato used for Polytheism, infact he thought monotheism has inherently retarded because who wants to worship a God who isn't all good. No monotheist god is all good if evil exists.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
"objectively right and objectively wrong"?
i guess in your world I would be wrong if I told you that it takes more than one person to decide what is fair.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
"tortoring babies for fun" is objectively wrong?
how about the Christian concept of original sin?
plenty of Christians have believed that God's will is for dead babies to go to hell, especially heathen babies. did they happen to forget the objective truth that tortoring babies was wrong? No, it was just their opinion. all of these are simply artistic perspectives...or perspectives of TASTE. Our "morals" are there to allow us to accomplish our goals.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
god or no god, morality is subjective
before you let a christian trick you into thinking they hold the key to objective morality, why is it that none of the old testament laws apply in the modern context? did god change his mind? where is the objective basis for morality in christian theology when the christian view of morality has been open to debate and analysis since it's inception and has undergone numerous changes based on the context of the society, in the same way secular morality has?
reggiejax 8 months ago
If the bible is legit, then God must have bipolar disorder if he says " Thou shalt not kill" and " love thy neighbor" and then he says in Numbers 31 17to kill all everyone including women and children.
Turkboy1231 9 months ago
Saint Jerome suggested "Placebo" meant in Latin " I shall please" with reference to God. We have no other measuring stick but ourselves as living sentient beings to query the world around us. But Science failed the day it required objectivity in the observer in the quest for Truth. We cannot separate our experience from the world to conclude what the world is about. God is the God of gods. we are gods and that is finally why we strongly suspect and even are haunted by God's Placebo
CarmineFragione 9 months ago
Interesting 5:38
Razzlyn1 9 months ago
The reason for moral is empathy! Because we know how certain things feel, we know what to do and not to do!
Good example is when we see someone getting hit in the nuts we fsuffer with him.
The reason is, that the brain "copies" actions/feelings we sense! (mirror neurons)
Even monkeys are able to do so which favors Evolution (never heard a monkey pray to jesus).
Why this is useful: we are social animals and we need to interact. The only way to do so is to understand how the others feel...
Maddin667 9 months ago
Turek uses so many of the same old arguments that I hear time and again from theists debating atheism. I'd be happy to stand up at that podium and refute every one of them the same way I always do. And I'm not a scientist or a philosopher or a professor of any kind. I'm just an average guy who knows what I believe (and don't believe.) And most importantly I know why and can defend those beliefs.
ctchampagne 9 months ago
Am I the only one who can't keep from laughing when Frank Turek goes "I'm sorry I'm out of time but I did my best; COSMOS!"?
TheHmmhmm 9 months ago
I guess I am in the minority here, but I don't see anything terribly objectionable about the guy's ontological arguments. I remain an atheist, and a inductive empiricist, but I get the deistic arguments. It's his last "s" in cosmos that I don't get. I have great conversations about the existence of god with believing friends, and then when they try to somehow link it to Christianity, you see the transparent stupidity. 5 arguments of creation, then a "therefore, Christ was divine." Unbelievable
wpfairbanks 9 months ago
Why not kill or rape to get what you want? I generally like people, I guess.
lockandkeynes 9 months ago
at 1:00 i had to pause this and read the whole of page 232 in the god delusion and i found nothing that supports what Turek said.
Neall07 10 months ago
@Neall07 Same. Turek has simply made this up.
robandre1 9 months ago
It took great effort to sit through Turek's ramblings, I eventually tracked through some of it. It really only gets good when Hitchens begins, even though he doesn't say much.
rakeshmanmohan 10 months ago
@SurlyCalifornia Are all your friends like that too?
Feargface 10 months ago
@SurlyCalifornia Haha! Oh you little bitch! Well aren't you outrageous! Bet you're a pro at this keyboard warrior stuff. I'll give you a measured response anyway, because I know you enjoying this.
1) I gave one reason, I have more which I'd prefer to keep private. You and conclusions, ya seem to just love jumping to them :)
2) I don't agree with that ruling, I'm undecided. And until an argument convinces me, it will remain that way.
No need to get angry here, man! I think you need a hug!
Feargface 10 months ago
@SurlyCalifornia Hitchens is a polemicist, so by his nature encourages disagreement as a means of furthering one's ability to think. I think a lot of people are watching Christopher and drooling over every word he says. This is missing one his clearest intentions. And 'mental stillborn'? That hurts, man.
Feargface 10 months ago
@SurlyCalifornia You really are an angry person. Surly California indeed. Who said Atheism was a club? You're annoying yourself there, son. Shall I rephrase so you won't get cranky? 'Atheists are too sickeningly smug for me to consider being one of them', at least this is the impression that people like yourself give. If Atheists get angry about piety (btw, believe me I'm in no way pious) then it's only fair that others can 'give a shit if atheists are smug'.
Feargface 10 months ago
Athiests are too sickeningly smug for me to consider joining them. Hitchens urges you to think for yourselves rather than follow religion. Stop worshipping him like he's a God, you're clearly missing one of the main points of his message.
Feargface 10 months ago
7:11 - Oh wow... I think he just killed himself in front of the audience.
Mimi2591 10 months ago
0:52 - I can name five reasons on the top of my head why participating in genocide or going against a moral code is wrong. It's not intuitive, it is reasonable to not kill people for various reasons. (Look up intuitively on the dictionary)
0:59 - Oh no... he is not going there!
1:11 - Isaiah 14:21, Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Isaiah 13:15-18
1:22 - I'm sure you actually just said that like 30 secs ago.
1:37 - I have just realized. You just talk crap I don't like you at all.
Mimi2591 10 months ago
0:22 - Enough with the messages, you already said that just move on.
0:37 - How is all that morally wrong when God (in the Bible) encouraged such slaughter, rape, and incest?
0:43 - Great. It is already like that, especially among the religious peoples of the world.
Mimi2591 10 months ago
I had to go through (speedily) Tureks bullshit before finally getting to my genius role model Christopher Hitchens and his inescapable logic.Poor Dr. Turek.Speed to 7:52 to do that.Thanx.
tedmon11 11 months ago
"If we're just overgrown germs with no ultimate purpose, why not kill or rape to get what you want"
Well Mr Turek, if you don't know the answer to that by heart, you have my atheistic empathy.
These moral laws are innately built into all healthy minded human beings and may even be observed in a more or less primitive form in all other species on earth.
Nothing magical here, that requires any kind of supernatural. Just simple evolution as explained by the great Darwin.
soskid 11 months ago
The most frustrating thing about Mr. Turek is that he does not present any evidence whatsoever... He merely quotes people and cherrypicks them in a particular manner to try to make a point... It's very difficult to listen to this cacophony of stupidity...
bigmattanderson 11 months ago
I was waiting for Frank Turek to say "Jesus loves people that have a 650 or higher credit score". Screw these bronze age thumpers, the more you research, the dumber they sound. Do a youtube search on "hitchslap". Hitchins really kicks butt in it!
morgan4xl 11 months ago
1:48 : "If we're just overgrown germs with no ultimate purpose, why not kill or rape to get what you want?"
Because it is mutually and collectively beneficial for everyone to treat everyone else as they would like to be treated. Every civilised society in human history has been built on this principle...without it, civilisation as we know it would descend into utter chaos. Is preventing the annihilation of human civilisation enough of a reason for everyone to be moral? I'd say so!
garethac81 11 months ago
Commander Hitchens... Fuck yea.
PinKushinQueen 11 months ago
Doystyeskie?: )
deathtoodin21 11 months ago
I love how all of yall trash on Turek yet none of you and not even Hitchens in later videos seeing as I've already seen the first debate, have disproved what Turek says. I'm not sure I if I yet completely agree with everything Turek says but I know he beat Hitchens plain and simple. As a debater myself, I know that in an LD round Hitchens would win regardless of public opinion. Love to hear some opinions and love to see some proof disproving Turek.
TrueDebater 1 year ago
I think that most people find it difficult to accept the idea of mankind being alone in the universe. To many, it is probably just too frightening and seems without purpose. I think for those people, being cosseted in religion and a thought of eternal life in a heaven allows them to get through each day. At this point in time however, the price we are all paying for this "la-la-land" mentality is unacceptable and it is long overdue that we all grew up and took some responsibility.
707BIGGLES747 1 year ago
1:03 Thats some bullshit misquoting of Dawkins right thar.
TheAcad3mic 1 year ago
His moral arguments are bullshit. The non-aggression principle has nothing to do with existence of a god. Morals are just made up rules to abide by in order for life to be best for everyone.
parquar 1 year ago
They just aren't putting out any new arguments are they.
BrooklynRagtag 1 year ago
incredibly stupid. even i could debate that idiot.
warezpl0 1 year ago
Wow Frank, never heard these arguments before. *Rolls eyes*
bwconklin 1 year ago
linguistic argument: good and god share the same etymology, and at one point in time were the same word, and in its early form, the word "good" in fact meant "like God" or "god like" as a method of comparing the definition of good to one of godliness
aragorn1780 1 year ago
Im so tired of morons that think they have all the answers. Apparently youtubers are much smarter and can personally debunk the logic of respected members of academia. Give me a break, all you do is read Dawkins or listen to your college professor and become a parasite of their arguments. You never provide any factual support, you rely solely on the faulty logic of the host you stole it from. Matter cannot be self-originating, there you go, atheism debunked... its that simple.
Wwrath 1 year ago
@Wwrath God can't be self-originating. There you go, theism debunked.
billbenblue 1 year ago
Santa claus, fairy tales, a-deist, Osama bon laden, lack of belief... debate after debate, the atheists never refute anything, they still use those old "let's-lack-a-belief" arguments, this new-atheists are getting very very boring.
IloveYOUviruses 1 year ago
The interesting thing about his painting painter theory is it describes a universe in which the universe itself is like a painting, it has a message or purpose rather than being. A painting is an assembly of elements to create visual media. A rock is in no way comparable. Also, if the universe was a painting it would have a message and the fact is it doesn't. A painting has purpose, to entertain, a rock on the other hand has placement, nobody placed the rock for your entertainment.
SamtheMan0728 1 year ago
Frank Turek comes across as well learned and a good speaker, but this turns into a slow excruciating Hitchslap!
2010pies 1 year ago
can he really think of no other possible explanation for the morality of humans?
adam1885282 1 year ago
turek talk about dawkin well he twisted what richard dawkin say, what a liar and i call this twisted falsy a masturbation of the mind
mystisme 1 year ago
Your bible says ...Jesus was hung on a tree....NOT NAILED TO A CROSS...liars!!!!
chucka59 1 year ago
I will not state a position either way but in my course of watching this debate why does every "atheist" insult and accuse any "creationist" of being unintelligent? Is that how atheists rebuttal anyone who does not agree with their statements? If you like rock and I like country am I a retarded cunt? Grow up and act as intellectual as you claim to be (atheists) and conduct a dialogue! You are discrediting your belief and yourself personally. I don't see Hitchens acting this way at all.
phunksound 1 year ago
@phunksound There is a simple answer to your question: Creationists = retarded. That said, I think that atheists have a tendency to be pretentious and are often over eager in dismissing theists. Many atheists seem to forget that disbelief in a god does not make them intelligent. Dogs don't believe in god, but I would hesitate to praise their intellectual merit. If you cannot defend your views with intelligence, than you are have no reason to think highly of yourself - theist or atheist.
Iambasebeast354 1 year ago
I love it, Hitchen's has picked up some of Harris's vibe now. Nice combo.
rooflee 1 year ago
7:45 to get to the intelligent part.
rooflee 1 year ago 2
Does this cunt ever shut up? I want to hear sense!
rooflee 1 year ago
As I was clicking the link for this video, I was wondering how much longer I have to listen to this asshat repeat the same arguments I've heard be refuted time and time again.
pc533ecx 1 year ago
Jesus, if you don't want to hear the ramblings of someone who doesn't believe in gravity or evolution, skip to 7:52
Turek's arguments are nothing new and STILL don't prove anything beyond a DEIST god.... one that does not, or will not interact with this universe....
and he STILL has to explain what a "soul" is or how it works....
So many stupid..... i mean, wishful thinkers....
ImBetterthanReligion 1 year ago 61
@ImBetterthanReligion He said that he wouldn't have time to prove Jesus right now....
goodwood505 11 months ago
@ImBetterthanReligion
thank you for telling me how to avoid listening to bull crap - this guys logic would probably and I emphasize probably would work on a 7 year old.
atombond 11 months ago
@ImBetterthanReligion I think Turek is just trying to prove God with science. There's a ton more to christianity than what he's explaining.
oskarr45 11 months ago
@oskarr45 He tries and fails terribly, and while I DO know a lot more about Christianity than most "Christians" even know about it, even in my believing years I wouldn't have tried these "tactics" or tried to go from an "agnostic" to "deist" to "theist" to "christian" sort of argument.
So many people fall prey to: assuming there HAS TO BE a creator(which is poss.), to: he has a plan for us and watches us(hmmm), to: "I KNOW what it WANTS" and will relay messages through me to others!
(....)
ImBetterthanReligion 11 months ago
@ImBetterthanReligion I agree he is so incredibly painful to listen too but you have to listen to their arguments otherwise we wont be able to fully appreciate the stupidity.
danielmalpollitt 10 months ago 18
/@danielmalpollitt Aww, but his arguments are so pathetic and irritating.
ImperialUSA 7 months ago
@danielmalpollitt Aww, but his arguments are so pathetic and irritating.
ImperialUSA 7 months ago
@ImperialUSA Haha, yes, yes they are.
danielmalpollitt 7 months ago
@ImBetterthanReligion Nice way to start a atheist arguement "Jesus". Where'd that come from?
Skater2Morrow 8 months ago
@Skater2Morrow It comes from the long and unfortunate impact of Christianity on people and thus their languages; from the way people who speak English, ended up using the Latin alphabet. Christian rule and saturation for hundreds of years. Christianity has sought out every nook and cranny of thought and language it can, no matter how petty. The meaningless habitual "Jesus" exclamation used to be bad, now you'll take it as a win? Or maybe they were joking with their Jesus use that excited you.
george120050 8 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens (Miscellaneous)
@ImBetterthanReligion THANK YOU! almost three videos' worth of that babble was starting to melt my brain.
captainredbeard8 8 months ago
@ImBetterthanReligion right....why listen to a debate if you are only going to listen to one side? Beware of one handed clapping.
landonavary 8 months ago
This guy is such a sad excuse for a philosophers.
jerryhello100 1 year ago
A lot of people seem to talk bad about Frank Turek and try to make him seem like an idiot. The guy is actually very smart and he makes good arguments. In these debates he has to condense tons of information into a 20 minute speech. That's very hard to do.
Before ruling out his arguments, and reasoning, please read his book "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist."
That way you can read and get his whole argument, not a condensed 20 minute version. Great job Frank Turek!
rawbeautifulswing 1 year ago
@rawbeautifulswing
"condensed to 20 min"... Forgive us if we dont give much credit to someone who walks into a debate with an excuse. These are horribe, constantly debunked arguments & if his debating skills isnt up to par with his more detailed book, then maybe he should work on a different approach. Im not Hitchens, Im not an author. I am no a scientist. I am not a philosopher, and even I can EASILY debunk these bullshit arguments. Theyre old, tired, and lame.
88Keyz101 1 year ago 31