Tricky situation here. As much as a woman has a right to decide on her own about abortions, the "Catholic" hospitals do have a free choice that can be exercised of their own accord, whether they can or cannot perform an abortion because it is against their religious beliefs.
The first development in a baby's physiology is the nervous system: in other words, its ability to feel pain. As a baby is aborted a photographic image shows the mouth open, crying out in silence just before he dies. No one considers their cry among lawmakers let alone hears the medical facts behind abortion. Not to mention women aborting their greatest gift: maternal love. What despicable cruelty is pawned off as freedom, which is really no freedom at all for those victimized by its abuse.
@utopiandesign Aborted at 14 w/o regrets, pregnant again, keeping it, and can&will provide this future child w/ love and support. Also, a fetus can only feel pain at 5 mos development. The silent scream video is a hoaz, man. Propaganda and fear-control at it's finest, eh?
Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr. writes: "The underlying premise in the arguments pro-abortionists give against fetal personhood is that non-persons can change into persons. They are saying that a living being can undergo a radical, essential change in its nature during its lifetime. But there is a logical problem here. If the change was biologically inevitable from conception, given time, then this change is not a change in essential nature. This is because if the being naturally initiates the change,
It must be in its nature from the beginning to do so. If it is in its nature to do so, then despite any changes in such characteristics as independence, place of residence, physical development, or demonstration of mental ability, what the being is in later life is what the being is from the beginning of its life. This means that if we are persons with the right to be free from aggression later in life, we are persons even at conception." "A False Assumption," Libertarians for Life,
What about all attacks religion has made on other people? What about burning withces, killing fags, doctors, nonbleieverS? The ONLY reason we do not live like the middle east)despite having the same religious doctrine b/c xtain/catholic/islam are ALL the same thing) is b/c from the beginning america was a democracy, NOT a theocracy- and we ahve freedom of religion, not do this or get executed.. a fetus is not a person, god is not a law, and faith is a choice, not a slavedriver.
Yes, I can see why the catholic church is against abortion-they will lose so many potential rape victims. Priests won't have as many children to rape, molest and abuse. How can priests say they are for children? Priests are pedophiles-I wouldn't trust one as far as I could throw him. The catholic church is just an old boys club. They are a business and the leader (the pope) should be in jail along with the pedophile priests.
I disagree. We have the choice to go to war, a jury has the choice to sentence someone to death, we all make personal choices. Government should stay the hell out of it. I'm not asking Catholic hospitals to against their beliefs, but really now.
If you aren't ready to raise a child or can't because of whatever reason, then don't have sex if you're able to become pregnant.
Even though most will say ' A life is a life ', I always think about some woman or a family struggling with having a child that was created by rape. I, even though I am a man, don't know how I could deal with that if I was a woman and devoted to a man completely.
I hate small text boxes, Sorry It should have read:
Gawd is not all powerful, fore gawd gave us free will, and in free will gawd cannot control what we do, so gawd is not all powerful. Since gawd is not all powerful, then the other myths about your gawd are obviously suspect.
And if you claim to do the "will of gawd", then you put yourself ABOVE gawd; since gawd does not know our free will, how can you purport to know gawd's will, ergo, you must think you are GREATER THAN GAWD.
Gawd is not all powerful, fore gawd gave up free will, and in free will gawd cannot control what we do, so gawd is not all powerful. Since gawd is not all powerful, then the oterh myths about your gawd are obviously suspect.
And if you claim to do the will of gawd, then you put yourwself ABOVE gawd, since gawd does not know our free will, how can you believe you know gawd's will, ergo you are GREATE THAN GAWD.
@SomnoNaut Your syllogism is flooded with fallacies. God didn't give up free will. He blessed us with this aspect. He created this tiny facet of humanity. Just like all of the myriad qualities He has created you with. He can also take away. "And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding" (Daniel 2:21).
My opinion....You are either ProLife or ProDeath. The child had NO choice. As a woman, I have the choice whether or not to have SEX! That is the choice...NOT preborn INFANTICIDE!
@LuvZNDovZ - A rape victim doesn't have the choice. A wife abused by her husband doesn't have the choice. These are everyday situations, you're acting like it's the mother's fault all the time for conceiving the child. Isn't a baby a precious gift to you? Then why do prolifers insist on treating mothers with such bullshit
A rape victim DOES have a choice. She can keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption, or kill the baby. Just because the rapist violated her, it does not mean that she has the right to violate the child. As the old saying goes, "Two wrongs don't make a RIGHT."
When you throw torture in there, you still have the choice. Not granted you might be swayed to choose your side but there is still that free choosing of gong through suffering. So to answer that no - in the end it is still your choice.
Several things impair your judgement, whether or not you are swayed is your choice. So in the end, free-will is always effective
@buchedda SHUTUP WOMAN DONT DO THIS BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A FREE DOM OF CHOICE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE NO FREEDOM AND NO CHOICE! They dont have the money to have the baby so they feel as if they have NO CHOICE but to perform an abortion. this works for most situations as well and if you come up with something you think to be a different situation ill be glad to tell you how that fits in
miscarriages are not part of the divine CCTV's plan now?
also, being the all-knowing and omnipotent designer and creator of EVERYTHING, why would god create life with the capacity for abortion if that's not what it wanted?
It's called free-will...we have the ability to choose what we do. Also, stuff like miscarriages and disease were brought into this world because of sin.
sin causes disease and miscarriage? god gives us free will, but the instant one individual breaks a rule the rest of creation is punished lifetime upon lifetime with tragedy?
Miscarriages are not caused by the person. These things have taken hold in this world because of sin and its stain on us. Free-will does affect us huh?
God did not do this, we did. Take responsibility and then you might understand.
because of someone else's sin, which i had no control over, i am punished?
yes or no.
god, being omniscient, knew the implications of free will. god gave free will KNOWING that we WOULD DEFINITELY sin.
god then punishes us, because those are his rules.
i do take responsibility for all of my actions. i don't believe in a god or the afterlife so the buck stops with me. there is no instant forgiveness for me. i have to earn that from other people when i transgress.
Yes.There are many people that suffer from others' sin, we are all affected by the first sin.
God is all knowing and out of His love for us He gave us free-will so that we could choose him. It is hard to understand and comprehend why God did this and who He really is. No one can fully answer that so if you want a definite answer, you won't get one.
I believe in order to be a good person and show that you are strong, people must forgive, even when it is hard and the person does not apoligize
i'm not looking for deifinite answers, i'm looking for logical reasoning. the fact that this brutish god chooses to punish me, and many others, for sins my ancestors commited is absolutely unjust.
"people must forgive, even when it is hard and the person does not apoligize "
i agree, is that not what god should do in this case, forgive the original sin and rid the world of suffering?
"He gave us free-will so that we could choose him."
it's not a very free choice, it's saying, 'hey, do whatever you want, i love you. but i'll torture you forever if what you want doesn't fit in with my wills."
if we know next to nothing about god, the evidence suggests that it lets natural evils persist due to some jealous rage. this god character is seroiusly unstable.
why would we let this raging, unprovable, cosmonazi's opinion influence our stance on such an important issue?
Free-will and what we do with it (including sin) is our fault not God's. If you have never studied the Bible than stop talking, because honestly you are forming your own opinions.--and they are false.
no i've studied the bible for over 15 years thankyou.
god's omniscience dictates that it knew what we would do with free will before the first atom was even created.
so the arbitrary rules put in place, namely the one strike and the entire creation is out rule are definitely god's responsibility.
and obviously it's not necessary, this guy is supposed to be omnipotent, this game could've been set up any way the creator desired, but it prefered the great tragedies we deal with daily
If you have studied the Bible for 15 uears and haven't revealed the truth than yoou are interpreting in it by you own means. First off the Book of Genesis is not to be taken word for word, but rather symboliclaly. Humans have free-will because God wants us too choose to love Him. Free-will - we can do good or bad - in reality, we are at fault because we abuse free-will. God created man in His own image and gave us free-will so we can choose Him........
i removed it because i refered to god as "he" i immediately reposted the comment verbatim sans the gender inference.
that's a low blow pal
of course i interpret the bible as an individual, i subject it to logic and reason, as well as comparing it to other philiosphical sources and come to my personal conclusions.
"The Bible is not meant for people to interpret it to fit their own opinion."
Its like a parent. you should not restrict you child to strict rules and he/she can barely breathe and can't live their own life. They should be more free to do stuff, to learn own their own and make the right decisions on their own so they can learn. Of course not all things are on their own.
Once again your own opinion is getting in the way of the real truth. The Bible is not meant for people to interpret it to fit their own opinion.
@t00btr0ut - Haha. Funny joke. If someone doesn't believe in hell, what do you tell them? Try arguing for pro life without bringing in god and fancy biblical references, they won't work on a lot of people. And maybe some people would rather go through hell than put a child through it by giving birth, hmm? Or I guess you would just give birth, regardless, and watch your kid become a sociopath.
@annisaloves If you don't want to put a child through hell, than be responsible and keep your privies in your pants. Why dismember a fetus (fetus = little one in latin) with pincers? Or burn his or her little body with liquid solutions? This is how illogical you sound... So a baby doesn't go through hell in this life, lets butcher him or her in the womb. Or better put, instant hell is better than a prolonged one How about looking at life as a gift, I don't see you trying to end your life
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be ripped open. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
Everything in the Old Testament is on a different level than the New Testament. You don't swipe one verse out of the middle of the Old Testament and take it for all truth. The Old Testament was written to be read pointing towards the New.
The change of a "wrathful God" in the OT to a "loving God" in the NT was not a change of God's teaching but a change of man. Just like when a child grows up and sees that their loving parents weren't "wrathful"
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
Many laws in the old testament was Moses' laws for those specific people at those specific times. Those laws were replaced by Jesus and the New Covenent came into existence at His 'death' so the new and the old is supposed to be taken together but rightly divided. God didn't murder or command murder, but when anything got in the way of His mission for Israel and the rest of the world, He took the obstacle away. But to place yourself higher than Him is stupid. You don't know His reasonings.
Moses Laws? And Moses got his wisdom from whom? And Jesus said that the old testament must be abided even after the induction of the new testament... It all comes from God, the old and new and it says so in the bible. The 10 commandments are sensible, mostly common sense though. But what about the other 600 in the old testament? I don't place myself higher than any mythical unproven version of God, including the Christian version. But I do place myself higher intellectually than the bible.
You just admitted that you worship a bipolar God. Again, nothing is taken out of context, nor would the meaning of God's commandments or words be any different if you list the entire page. When god orders people to kill and women and children to be killed and tortured in the bible, it is his Character on the line, and you must determine what is moral, to follow this beast you call God, or to follow your own good conscience.
The change of a "wrathful God" in the OT to a "loving God" in the NT was "NOT" a change of God's teaching but a change of man. Just like when a child grows up and sees that their loving parents weren't wrathful. The change takes place in mankind. Just as the parents Yell at their children "Don't touch that electrical cord!" The children aren't ready to hear the reasons why. It just comes out, "Don't". God allowed for things before the fullness of Truth was available.
CaMedia, of course it was a change of man. Man's creation of a hateful, vengeful God of the bible was getting old and the more evolved man of the new testament wanted a more positive representation of God. So it was written to make God look good instead of bad. God is a representation of what man wants God to be. It's a selfish indulgent act for man to create what he thinks God to be, and then tell other people it's the truth.
If Christians were trying to push this false "god" on people, wouldn't they leave out the Old Testament? It makes perfect sense that if God was make believe, the believers wouldn't push writings that "sound" hard to believe. The only logical explanation is that the writings that go above our head are Truth.
There are many pushers of the old testament, such as baptists, etc.... It will never go away.. But don't you think because of the clash between the old and new testament, that Atheists, agnostics, or any anti-religious groups have a solid point on the validity of the Christian god? You have to admit, it comes down to warm fuzzies for most people and Faith, they're only reasoning. But for logically minded people, faith is not enough. Who created logical people, the devil?
@quicksiliva The problem that you are having is distinguishing between DESCRIPTIVE history, versus PRESCRIPTIVE history. Many things in the OT are DESCRIPTIVE history of the Jews For example, when God commands the Israelites to kill, Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites (Deuteronomy 20:17). You don't read in the papers how Jews & Christians are blowing themselves up to kill Hittites do you? This was a descriptive historical event of Jewish conquest, not prescriptive
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the their women with child shall be ripped up. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for Gods intervention. Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry.
In all truth, either folks are pro-life or pro-death! What about the choice of the unborn baby? What about his/her inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The definition of liberty is the freedom to do that which is right! My new motto is "Use your might to stand up and fight for what's right!" If we remain silent, evil will prevail! The American Holocaust of abortion will not be eradicated if we don't, first of all and most importantly, pray and then speak out!
I find it best to answer if Im asked "Are you pro choice or pro life" no comment. That way no one will ever know where you stand. it bugs the hell out of them people.
Souls enter the body at many different times, individual to the soul. Some will enter after 8 weeks, not always staying but floating around the new body the soul is about to inhabit. Souls leave and return many times thruout pregnancy, familiarizing itself with it's new body. Some souls don't enter the body until right before birth. It's purely individual... If for whatever reason a soul is unable to be born, (i.e. spontaneous or intentional abortion), that soul will find another body to enter.
Um... Is this something you made up? Where did you hear this?
The souls are made exclusively for the bodies they are living with. The body=the person=the soul. It is not some kind of prison, but rather both are needed for unique personhood.
There is no proof that souls exist, nor should it be a subject of argumentation. To say the soul does this or that is no more crazy than to acknowledge without evidence that it exists to begin with.
There will always be people like yourself looking for meaning in ancient caveman writtings... really no different than astrology if you think about it. What makes us different from animals? Well because of our intelligence, we know how to wipe out masses of our own species and we're much more violent. So to put it into perspective we are morally bankrupt compared to say a Lion, who only kills for food.
Are you saying that natural causes brought on by evil are directly from God?
I would say, yes there are evil things in the world, not because God directs them, but God permits them because we have to grow closer to Him through suffering. There is sickness because of original sin and lack of Grace. I'm sure you really wanted to make a point there, but it is the same as any other evil thing in this world...
God permits evil, then he is evil... It's time for you to take logic 101. Based on the definitions of God, labeling it as all-knowing, all-powerful, you don't create something just to watch it suffer or allow evil (the devil) to coexist with a creation that you love. Nothing about original sin makes any sense, nor the bible.
Well I'm sorry that's the conclusion you reached, but the explanation is easier than you think. God loves ALL creation. He loves us so much that He gave us a free will (I know you have heard all this, but pay attention). So we could choose anything we wanted. Can you imagine a life without free will?! He never stops loving and just because most people turn towards evil or disregard what makes them happy isn't going to make Him stop loving them. Ergo, evil people will exist.
There will soon be no more freedom of any kind. Doctors and hospitals will all be forced to preform abortions, the "Fairness Doctrine" will take away our freedom of speech, especially on radio, we are fast losing our right to bear arms, the Govt. is nationalizing the banks, the auto industry, and many other industries. And we are being told what cars to drive, what light bulbs to use, what kind of TV to buy, etc... Welcome to the USSA. Pray for America and the world.
How is this a freedom of religion issue? Don't take public funds. If you take public funds then the government can tell you what to do. Seems pretty obvious.
I have to wonder what Obama is thinking by forcing doctors to choose between their jobs and their morals, or by supporting an act that would destroy the hospital system. Beliefs on the issue aside, can he not see how catastrophic this would be? It's scary really, because no sane person would pass this.
I am strongly pro-choice, and STRONGLY against this outrageous act, assuming that it is all I've heard. I need to do some research still
Now, if it's true that doctors will be forced to perform abortions, this law is barbaric like nothing america has seen since it denied people the right to vote based on race/gender.
Not only doctors, but even those without medical licenses can perform an abortion at ANY stage and on any age of girl WITHOUT that girls parents ever noticing.
abortion is legal in most of the states. What the freedom of choice act will do is erace any law in any state that has to do with abortion. No parental notification, no restrictions on partial birth abortion, no limit of when abortions can be done, up to and including 8months and 29 days before birth..........get the picutre. This is a dream of Planned Parent Hood. The abortion machine that doesn't care about you or your unborn. All they care about is the MONEY. Wake up America!
I wouldn't mind being labeled as someone who "forces" women to spare their baby's lives.
They aren't forced anywhere. They had their choice to abstain or not. The choice was made up to 9 months before the abortion. Pro"choice" is an abstraction of the "choice" to murder.
I see. This is about your desire to punish women for having intercourse. And, as long as it's not your daughter being butchered in a back alley, what to you care about life. I get it. Fine. I moving on from your sanctimonious views..
the legal definition of murder is killing with malice aforethought, i.e., bad intentions. abortions are performed for the betterment of the fetus and woman. i dont see where the rights of a fetus, that has no thoughts or feelings, trump the rights of a sentinent woman. what if when a close relative of yours went into labor with their third child, the doctors discovered a complication where the mother could die giving birth? should she HAVE to die giving birth without a say in it?
I'm sorry how is slaughtering the fetus done "for the betterment of the fetus"? A child in the womb DOES have thoughts and feelings- in many cases the baby can feel physical pain from the abortion; also, while its brain is developing and growing, the baby can react to stimuli like light, sound, and motion.
drezwinesap: the 'slaughtering' as you call it is done so that the fetus doesn't have to go though an entire lifetime of pain from bad parents, crippling disabilities, etc. unlike you, i focus my attention on living people.
a fetus in the womb does NOT have thoughts and feelings, and i guarentee you cant prove otherwise. fetuses only have enough brain waves to make reflexes- hence the opening of the mouth mistaken for a 'scream'.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information but you are wrong. I'm sure that scientific proof is out there but I don't need it. My wife and I have our own proof. When my wife was pregnant with my daughter my daughter loved certain types of music. She would kick in time with the music to some songs and other songs she would calm right down. When she would be kicking my wife all I had to do was tell her that mommy and daddy love her and put my hand on her tummy and she would calm down. Wow
southparkADD1CT, you must understand that the fetus can feel pain just after 8 weeks of growth. And what a horrible pain that must be! Your assumption that there is no quality of life in aborted fetuses because you assume the family is better off with no children is a stretch if I have ever seen one and a stretch in the wrong direction. I know of a man who could have been aborted but grew up in a broken family. That man is Obama, who I am guessing you voted for.
CaMediaRC, Dogs and cats respond to music too, yet for human convenience we put down millions of unwanted pets yearly. Studies have also show plants respond to music. We kill and eat plants daily for our survival. Morally and logically, in my opinion, families should be keep to one or two children until our population is under control. Besides Obama - Hitler, Stalin, and bin Laden could have been aborted. I am guessing you think their lives are worth protecting no matter what.
Your argument is flawed. The argument is whether or not the fetus is a person in the womb. The relation between dogs holds no ground because he is relating humans being in the womb and out of the womb. Yes we are on top of the food chain and we eat plants and animals... The relation is with the same species. You noticed something you could relate to animals and you went on a tangent. How does evil people justify killing the unborn? They made there choices. Everyone deserves life, like yourself.
Your argument seems to move and change depending on the life form. I didn't know being on top of a food chain decides what fetus is worth saving. Interesting. Do sharks know that? Anyway, I'm not justifying the acts of evil people. All kinds of women will seek abortions for all kinds of reasons. That is not going to change. For the safety of their lives, abortion should be legal and safe. This women are all people just like yourself.
bond519 fetuses DO NOT have thoughts or feelings. they only have primitive brain waves. fetuses don't know what the words 'love' and 'daddy' are. what you were feeling were reflexes that fetuses make all of the time. find me one source that says fetuses have thoughts and feelings.
You are another naive scientific fool. The wonder of life is a miracle enough. Why do idiots like you feel the need to prove everything. Somethimes you can't explain something because it is a miracle. I don't need to prove fetus feelings to you and you can't prove fetus non feeling to me. I know I am right and you are too stupid to be open minded enough to even see the wonder of living. Your problem is that you think that everything needs to be proven.Take a look at a live ultrasound and believe
science cannot prove everything, and it doesn't pretend to. although, it's proven that emotions like love and things like smiling are activities that need social connotations. smiling requires a degree of self-consciousness and experience of interacting with other people. babies often smile when they wet their diapers, does this mean that they are experiencing emotions like when someone sees a friend? no. see, i believe things because they are logical, not because they make me feel better.
What about the science of the ultrasound? A good ultrasound tech will tell you that the baby can smile and they even will move when uncomfortable. So you can take all of your so called scientific proof and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I have seen it and so sad for you if you havent.
Just because a fetus moves its facial muscles and curves its lips does not mean it is 'smiling'. it is PROVEN things like smiling are activities that need social connotations. you are incorrect and you have no contest. i understand you have a problem with people that are skeptical/use science to discover a broader understanding in life. i don't want or need you to automatically agree with me, i just want you to know where i'm coming from.
You may want me to know where you are coming from but I really don't care. When my wife was pregnant with my daughter my mother was on her death bed. My mother died knowing that her granddaughter felt her Grandmothers hand. My daughter remembers her grandmothers voice and my Mother died in February 1998 and my daughter was born in June of 1998. So don't tell me that my daughter couldn't feel her grandmothers touch or hear her voice. If you're skeptical or not, You can't prove me wrong AT ALL.
im sorry for your loss. but really, it is impossible for a fetus to develop long term memory because that part of the brain isn' t fully developed until about age 2. a lot of people claim that they remember being in the womb/being born, but those memories usually draw from what people tell them. you obliviously won't hear anything different because you have already convinced yourself that you're right.
I'd personally rather be killed before I was born than at 18 being shot to death.... Why don't we take a pole and see what others think?..... I don't buy the stupidity of Christianity and it's stance on abortion. The whole religion is immoral and evil.
Let them close down.... It only shows the true colors of how hateful and immoral the catholic religion is.... They will only help you if you conform to their demands.
Yes we spoke with Mr. Schwartz of Tom Coburn's office - My friend Joyce(7abortions) who is on my youtube Channel - I was Wrong (dot ) info ane I met with him for an hour - Joyce had also heard this from someone else the day before - so it is the buzz in DC
I thought it was the best news too!
Obama has signed the Mexico City abortion bill- which we "now will fund"
overseas abortion - his agenda is much more global than just affecting America.
While in DC LAST week to meet with congressional at the March For Life - A DC insider said the FOCA WILL NOT MAKE IT OUTSIDE congressional - it's a fight Obama dosn't want - I pray the Publc Outcry in America over abortion will get louder and louder Iwaswrong(dot) info.
what the fuck! how can you say choose real freedom when you dont have any choice! i am getting angry with this religious propaganda! listen for one second. most republicans are religious. republicans wanteed to go to war. in going to war you destroy everything you stand for by killing your so called "enemies". i am not trying to completely write off religion but how do we really know what a "god" would be for and against? we wouldnt know what she thinks thats right gods a chick
You can't lump republicans into one category. People in america wanted to go to war, both Democrats and Republicans. People were against the war, both Democrats and Republicans. If a God made us, then he obviously made us with a desire to want love and happiness. We all strive for it. You don't find happiness in immoral acts when you break it down. You can't be truly happy in immorality. Care to try and prove me wrong?
Would FOCA do as the vid says - force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions?
Unequivocally no, says Jill Morrison, senior counsel at the National Women's Law Center. Federal conscience clause law, such as the Church Amendment, states that simply receiving public funding does not turn a hospital into a "state actor," Morrison explains.
"FOCA must be read consistently with existing federal law, unless the new law explicitly provides that it is intended to repeal existing law."
Morrison adds, "A hospital is not a state actor, and cannot be magically transformed into one due to its getting Federal funding, as set forth in the Church Amendment."
If the government wants catholic hospitals to perform abortions, then the catholic hospitals must close, and the government can buy them and run them.
Maybe someone can answer this question: If abortions were made illegal, how could this be enforced? Millions of people are pro-choice. How can you keep us off the jury, particularly in states like NY, NJ, Mass, Vt, and Cal. Another thing: How would you prevent women from having an abortion abroad? Would women have to undergo a pregnancy test before leaving the US and upon their return? Didn't the failure of Prohibition teach us that unpopular laws cannot be enforced in a democracy.
ers: I have you on blocked, but it's obviously not working. So if you please, just post it and not reply to me. Cause I really don't travel the road you're on. Thanks.
My point was made with my first three post. I've fell pray to others that twist words and meanings just to have an argument. I'm one of those that keeps it simple. for i.e., If that is what Scriptures reads, then that is what it is. It's really not rocket science to me, that abortion is murder. Adios.
Where does this absurdity end? Should it be illegal for a woman to undergo chemo treatment isuch an act would damage her fetus? Should any woman who experiences a miscarriage face a murder investigation? Should our citizenship be determined by where we were conceived instead of where we were born? Should age requirements (voting, drinking, retirement, driving, consent, attending school, etc) be backdated by 9 months? Should a woman pregant with triplets be allowed to use the car pool lane?
I have heard beautiful stories of women not undergoing chemo because of the fact that it would damage the fetus. Think outside the box.
It seems absurd, but if the fetus is a person then it would be grounds for a murder investigation, but our country is not close to that kind of truth.
Our age is represented by when we are born, why would that have to change? It seems illogical. Carpool lanes are for those who share a car instead of driving themselves. Your argument doesn't hold any ground.
But what of the woman who already has young children depending on her? Does she have the right to risk making them motherless? I would think her first obligation is to be around to care for those already born. What right would you or I have to make the choice FOR her? As for our age, if our laws say life begins at conception, it would certainly impact on every age-related law in existence. Car pooling was an attempt at humor.
If the woman can't afford a child she shouldn't have sex, right? It is the consequences of bonding irresponsibly that causes this problem. The problem is not the baby. The problem is a lack of self control. You can abstract all you want and call it just a "choice". I will do one better and say that every crime and sin is a "choice" and we shouldn't infringe on people's choices... It begins at discipline.
Do you want to end most abortions in the US? Then vote for candidates who will provide families with health insurance and affordable medicine, children with a quality schools, college students with low cost loans or scholarships, a decent minimum wage, shelters for the homeless, equal pay for women, and child support from absent fathers. Perhaps then there would be fewer abortions. But the very people who are pro-life oppose most if not all of these measures
I vote against candidates who support abortion upfront and directly. Abortion is always an issue with candidates and all those other issues are secondary to an immediate human life. Barack Obama is now on on-the-job-training. And his first act could lay waste to Health Care. Catholic hospitals are the foremost provider of health care because they are mostly non-profit. Now he is totally disregarding what Catholics believe wholeheartedly and forcing us to go against our religion.
ers586: If you want to, you can continue to ask medical ethics questions concerning abortion--trying to complicate matters. Things really are pretty simple, though.
Statistics show that the circumstances you want to debate are such a small fraction of abortions carried out in the US. Why are you not willing to deal with the fact that abortion kills children?
What is the most basic right, the right to choose or the right to Life? No other right is possible when life is denied.
OK, let's stick to the rule rather than the excepton. Most abortions occur within the first 3 months of gestation. At that point, we are discussing an embyo, not a fetus. I believe the rights of a 25 or 30 year old woman outweigh the rights of a 2 or 3 month old embryo. Complete strangers have any no right to compel the woman to carry that embryo to term. And based on the popular results of 4 of the last 5 Presidential elections, most voters agree with me.
An appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy which really has no relevance to the actual issue. You believe that the rights of a 25 or 30 year old woman outweighs the rights of a 2 or 3 months old embryo. Why? Do the rights of an 80 year old outweigh the rights of a 5 year old? Your argument seems to be that the unborn are not people. Mine is that they are. You call this a medical procedure. I call it genocide. "Complete strangers" elected the past 5 of 5 presidents, so what's your point?
Genocide is the targeted killing of a people because of race, ethnicity or religion. Because abortion is practiced by members of diff. races, etnicities, religion, etc. it cannot be called genocide. My appeal to popularity is valid because in a democracy, laws that lack the support of a majority of people have little likelihood of being enforced. (Consider prohibition.) Third, adults have rights that children don't. For similar rasons, those born have rights that fetuses don't.
I would disagree with that for the bible in the new testament mentions that life begins in the woumb, and that in the old testament it states a murder of a pregnant women is a murder of 2.
You can't just say things like that without proof.... give me word for word biblical verse, and I will give you verses you probably didn't read or don't want to read....
Doesnt matter, ive read it through once before its not like it be anything new, what are you going to do link me the verse that god killed the first born in egypt that didnt heed his warning? lol go ahead and copy and paste.
God did much worse things than that in the bible. But you know his approval of genocide, rape, torture, slavery, and every other atrocity to mankind.... since you've read the bible, and STILL think that God loves you. Bipolar personalities might still be capable of love, but you must not forget the other side to the equation.
(Deuteronomy 20:10-14) As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.
Do you think you have an argument when you pick one part out of a bible and stand to prove of God as contradictory. Have you ever picked up a book to read and decided, "Well I'm just going to read the very beginning, some of the third chapter, and then the end." Would that book make any sense to you?
Now since I can understand in human terms, the whole of the bible, I understand why that verse is in there, but I think explaining it to you might result in a five verse tangent of timeless "proof".
Actually, that is a piss poor argument... Each verse is numbered and therefore understood as an individual verse. Even if you put each verse back into the context of the whole, does that really change what the verse says word for word? You're a biblical appologist and you're making excuses for what it really says. Please stick to the actual meaning of each verse and go ahead and put it into context, and explain to me how that changes anything.
The verses weren't numbered and "understood as individual verses" until after the scriptures were written.
The verses being numbered made it easier to find things in the bible, not to have each verse be a different teaching.
First of all that was written in the Old Testament and if you knew anything about relation between Old Testament and New Testament you would realize that the fulness of Truth is found only by reading the Old Testament in light of the New Testament.
tell that crap to any preacher who reads versus, often times jumping around to different spots in the bible and then making a complete sermon from those verses... You just invalidated your religion. Further Jesus tells us not to ignore the old testament. The relationship between the old and new testament is that they are both written by humans, not any God... And it's evident. But the contents of the immoral bible are enough to steer away any man that has good conscience.
Your completely arrogant and should read that whole book of the bible before taking one verse out of context. Society took a lot from this book, so why would it lock me up? lol
I know the bible better than you, and that is why I don't try to change the meaning of what it actually says.... If you're looking for a God that doesn't create evil to wreck havoc in your life, or a god that is not angry and jealous and hateful, much like that of a human, then the bible is not the place to look.
The undemocrated nominated Pastors hold the elected Presidant -The representent od the Democracy- as a hostage. America Defend Your Freedom and Your Democracy. The Capital of America is Washington, not a Quartier in Rome.
Where were the Right to Life folks when President Bush went to China during the Olympics. In China, women who already have had a child are compelled against their will to undergo abortions. Yet there was President Bush, at the Chinese Olympics and here is China, the source of so many imports. RTL should demand that stores like K-Mart, Wall-Mart, Target, etc shop selling Chinese imports. But THAT"S not going to happen. Why not?
So Obama made it clear that his religious faith is the "christian" faith, whatever that means these days. So the Creator long ago made it clear, very clear His thoughts of a fetus. Exodus 21:22-23,But if any HARM follows, then you shall give "LIFE for LIFE". Your Creator says an unborn (fetus) is a life, a life the same as, equal to any other human life, born or unborn. OT or NT a life is a life no matter what age of time we live in. I quess Obama didn't read the source of his so-called faith.
You misquote Exodus and distort its meaning. Exodus 21:22-23 says, "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follows: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine." That's NOT the same as "eye for an eye." Elsewhere that chapter indicates that those who kill shall be put to death. But no such punishment is spelled out for someone who cause a miscarriage.
ers586: Okay, Verse 22 makes it very clear the subject matter is the unborn. Verse 23 makes it clear the loss of the unborns life is a life, "life for life". I'm not giving this as an example of the enforcement of a law. It's an example that proves God, The Creator of human life considers the unborn human a life equal to, in value as a born human. It wasn't a misquote, lol.
Verse 23: "If any mischief follows, then thou shalt give life for life." So....this refers to any action AFTER the miscarriage. Of course, Exodus declares that if a child curses his parents, he should be put to death. If one is to follow the Bible, shouldn't THAT requirement be followed?
ers586: The original Hebrew, there are no verses or subject changes. The Scriptures continue talking about the unborn. The word mischief translated from "acown" means hurt, injury. It continues about the unborns life or loss of the unborns life that may follow. Again equal too a born life. V. 22 the word hurt is from nagaph, to inflict. If you're gona use the1611 translations, then at least learn why the words are used. Why do you keep harping about the laws of Moses? I don't get the connection.
The fetus's life cannot be equated with that of a human being. A man who murders a pregnant woman is subject to the death penalty, but if the attacker causes the woman's fetus to be lost, but no other injury insues, he is subject to a monetary fine. The presumption behind this ruling is that while a murderer should be executed, one who causes the abortion of a fetus is not a murderer, because a fetus is not a human life. See Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, The Book of Jewish Values (2000).
ers586: Okay, you can just stay stuck on stupid. Gen 46:15 Note 33 in all, only 32 names. Why? Levi's wife was with child for the journey. Numbers 26:59 The child was born in Egypt. Still that life(fetus)(a life) that you claim is not human was counted as a "person" before his birth by our Creator. Obviously I use what the Scriptures prove. Obviouly you need and find others as J. Telushin to support you're muderous ideology.
So it takes 3 exchanges before you become abusive. Let's see if you could answer THIS: IF abortion is banned in the US, HOW can you enforce the law? The millions who are pro-choice. would serve on the juries and would refuse to convict anyone charged with this "crime.". Meanwhile any woman seeking to terminate her pregnancy could fly to Europe for a safe legal abortion. Or would you make it manditory for every woman to undergo a pregnancy test before leaving the USA? Even if you win, you lose.
esr: abusive ? LMAO. You call destruction to a human fetus nothing more than getting ride of, of a pimple. And then when someone refers to you as stuck on stupid you get offended ? Again, LMAO@U. It's Okay to laugh huh ? Hitler.
I never called having an abortion nothing more than removing a pimple. What a cruel thing to say. A friend of mine had one and afterwards I held her as she wept. When the US Constitution was written, abortion was legal in all 13states. The one group who could NOT choose to have an abortion was slaves because that fetus belonged to the MASTER. Millions of Americans are pro-choice and calling them Hitlers certainly won't change any minds.
ers: I know you didn't call it that way, duh. So you haven't figured it out, that's how you project your thoughts about "the" aborted to others ? As if the aborted are nothing more than "nothing", a pimple, as waste, as trash, as unworthy to any other. Honestly I despise for your kind of attitude and support you have towards abortion. Nothing says I have to like it or respect you for it, or how you're so determined to justify those cruel and inhuman actions.
ers: Furthermore I didn't responed back to you to "change" anyone's mind. A nation of people that provides "families with health insurance and affordable medicine, children with a quality schools, college students with low cost loans or scholarships, a decent minimum wage, shelters for the homeless, equal pay for women, and child support from absent fathers." Again, I oppose tax payers monies paying for abortions.
Blind people's taxes support art museum, deaf people's taxes support symphony orchestras, vegetarians' taxes support meat inspection, Christian Scientists' taxes support medical resarch, pacifists' taxes support wars, the taxes of crime victims pay for the food, clothing and medicine of convicted criminals, the taxes of childless people pay for the public schools, and the taxes of illiterates pay for libraries. So you are part of a pretty large club.
ers: Abortion, yes I don't support that as a choice for any human being. I find it to be murder(period). I couldn't have prevented people since the begining of mankind from aborting. Nothing is going to stop it. According to Scripture, it get even more horriffic before "The Day Of The Lord". I will say in my earlier post that I oppose tax payers money to pay for abortions. That way I wouldn't be part of cruel murders. Again I'm pleased to say. People as you ARE stuck on stupid, #2 right?
Tricky situation here. As much as a woman has a right to decide on her own about abortions, the "Catholic" hospitals do have a free choice that can be exercised of their own accord, whether they can or cannot perform an abortion because it is against their religious beliefs.
tetdragon 5 months ago
The first development in a baby's physiology is the nervous system: in other words, its ability to feel pain. As a baby is aborted a photographic image shows the mouth open, crying out in silence just before he dies. No one considers their cry among lawmakers let alone hears the medical facts behind abortion. Not to mention women aborting their greatest gift: maternal love. What despicable cruelty is pawned off as freedom, which is really no freedom at all for those victimized by its abuse.
utopiandesign 1 year ago
@utopiandesign Aborted at 14 w/o regrets, pregnant again, keeping it, and can&will provide this future child w/ love and support. Also, a fetus can only feel pain at 5 mos development. The silent scream video is a hoaz, man. Propaganda and fear-control at it's finest, eh?
ryddelwearsahat 11 months ago
Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr. writes: "The underlying premise in the arguments pro-abortionists give against fetal personhood is that non-persons can change into persons. They are saying that a living being can undergo a radical, essential change in its nature during its lifetime. But there is a logical problem here. If the change was biologically inevitable from conception, given time, then this change is not a change in essential nature. This is because if the being naturally initiates the change,
teton99 1 year ago
It must be in its nature from the beginning to do so. If it is in its nature to do so, then despite any changes in such characteristics as independence, place of residence, physical development, or demonstration of mental ability, what the being is in later life is what the being is from the beginning of its life. This means that if we are persons with the right to be free from aggression later in life, we are persons even at conception." "A False Assumption," Libertarians for Life,
teton99 1 year ago
What about all attacks religion has made on other people? What about burning withces, killing fags, doctors, nonbleieverS? The ONLY reason we do not live like the middle east)despite having the same religious doctrine b/c xtain/catholic/islam are ALL the same thing) is b/c from the beginning america was a democracy, NOT a theocracy- and we ahve freedom of religion, not do this or get executed.. a fetus is not a person, god is not a law, and faith is a choice, not a slavedriver.
ryddelwearsahat 1 year ago
Yes, I can see why the catholic church is against abortion-they will lose so many potential rape victims. Priests won't have as many children to rape, molest and abuse. How can priests say they are for children? Priests are pedophiles-I wouldn't trust one as far as I could throw him. The catholic church is just an old boys club. They are a business and the leader (the pope) should be in jail along with the pedophile priests.
BewareOfDogma59 1 year ago
I disagree. We have the choice to go to war, a jury has the choice to sentence someone to death, we all make personal choices. Government should stay the hell out of it. I'm not asking Catholic hospitals to against their beliefs, but really now.
annisaloves 1 year ago
My opinion -
If you aren't ready to raise a child or can't because of whatever reason, then don't have sex if you're able to become pregnant.
Even though most will say ' A life is a life ', I always think about some woman or a family struggling with having a child that was created by rape. I, even though I am a man, don't know how I could deal with that if I was a woman and devoted to a man completely.
jeremyethan17 2 years ago
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I hate small text boxes, Sorry It should have read:
Gawd is not all powerful, fore gawd gave us free will, and in free will gawd cannot control what we do, so gawd is not all powerful. Since gawd is not all powerful, then the other myths about your gawd are obviously suspect.
And if you claim to do the "will of gawd", then you put yourself ABOVE gawd; since gawd does not know our free will, how can you purport to know gawd's will, ergo, you must think you are GREATER THAN GAWD.
SomnoNaut 2 years ago
Gawd is not all powerful, fore gawd gave up free will, and in free will gawd cannot control what we do, so gawd is not all powerful. Since gawd is not all powerful, then the oterh myths about your gawd are obviously suspect.
And if you claim to do the will of gawd, then you put yourwself ABOVE gawd, since gawd does not know our free will, how can you believe you know gawd's will, ergo you are GREATE THAN GAWD.
SomnoNaut 2 years ago
@SomnoNaut Your syllogism is flooded with fallacies. God didn't give up free will. He blessed us with this aspect. He created this tiny facet of humanity. Just like all of the myriad qualities He has created you with. He can also take away. "And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding" (Daniel 2:21).
nef2442 1 year ago
My opinion....You are either ProLife or ProDeath. The child had NO choice. As a woman, I have the choice whether or not to have SEX! That is the choice...NOT preborn INFANTICIDE!
LuvZNDovZ 2 years ago 5
@LuvZNDovZ - A rape victim doesn't have the choice. A wife abused by her husband doesn't have the choice. These are everyday situations, you're acting like it's the mother's fault all the time for conceiving the child. Isn't a baby a precious gift to you? Then why do prolifers insist on treating mothers with such bullshit
annisaloves 1 year ago
A rape victim DOES have a choice. She can keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption, or kill the baby. Just because the rapist violated her, it does not mean that she has the right to violate the child. As the old saying goes, "Two wrongs don't make a RIGHT."
LuvZNDovZ 1 year ago
To respond to your removed comment...
When you throw torture in there, you still have the choice. Not granted you might be swayed to choose your side but there is still that free choosing of gong through suffering. So to answer that no - in the end it is still your choice.
Several things impair your judgement, whether or not you are swayed is your choice. So in the end, free-will is always effective
buchedda 2 years ago
@buchedda SHUTUP WOMAN DONT DO THIS BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A FREE DOM OF CHOICE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE NO FREEDOM AND NO CHOICE! They dont have the money to have the baby so they feel as if they have NO CHOICE but to perform an abortion. this works for most situations as well and if you come up with something you think to be a different situation ill be glad to tell you how that fits in
colip13 2 years ago
Great video!!!! :)
TooSheaFilms 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out my video.
"The 'No Freedom' of Choice Act"
Guardianoftheunborn 2 years ago
God created abortion. And God is the biggest abortionist around.
It is estimated that up to 50% of all fertilized eggs die and are aborted spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant.
God loves Abortion...
quicksiliva 2 years ago
That was just a stupid and satanistic comment. God does not support the murder of innocent human beings. Have some morals why don't you
buchedda 2 years ago 2
how was it stupid?
miscarriages are not part of the divine CCTV's plan now?
also, being the all-knowing and omnipotent designer and creator of EVERYTHING, why would god create life with the capacity for abortion if that's not what it wanted?
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
It's called free-will...we have the ability to choose what we do. Also, stuff like miscarriages and disease were brought into this world because of sin.
buchedda 2 years ago
free will? women choose to have miscarriages now?
sin causes disease and miscarriage? god gives us free will, but the instant one individual breaks a rule the rest of creation is punished lifetime upon lifetime with tragedy?
oh great and merciful god, i love you!
thanks pal, i finally get it.
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
Miscarriages are not caused by the person. These things have taken hold in this world because of sin and its stain on us. Free-will does affect us huh?
God did not do this, we did. Take responsibility and then you might understand.
buchedda 2 years ago
because of someone else's sin, which i had no control over, i am punished?
yes or no.
god, being omniscient, knew the implications of free will. god gave free will KNOWING that we WOULD DEFINITELY sin.
god then punishes us, because those are his rules.
i do take responsibility for all of my actions. i don't believe in a god or the afterlife so the buck stops with me. there is no instant forgiveness for me. i have to earn that from other people when i transgress.
what about you?
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
Yes.There are many people that suffer from others' sin, we are all affected by the first sin.
God is all knowing and out of His love for us He gave us free-will so that we could choose him. It is hard to understand and comprehend why God did this and who He really is. No one can fully answer that so if you want a definite answer, you won't get one.
I believe in order to be a good person and show that you are strong, people must forgive, even when it is hard and the person does not apoligize
buchedda 2 years ago
i'm not looking for deifinite answers, i'm looking for logical reasoning. the fact that this brutish god chooses to punish me, and many others, for sins my ancestors commited is absolutely unjust.
"people must forgive, even when it is hard and the person does not apoligize "
i agree, is that not what god should do in this case, forgive the original sin and rid the world of suffering?
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
"He gave us free-will so that we could choose him."
it's not a very free choice, it's saying, 'hey, do whatever you want, i love you. but i'll torture you forever if what you want doesn't fit in with my wills."
that's psychotic.
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
back to the point,
if we know next to nothing about god, the evidence suggests that it lets natural evils persist due to some jealous rage. this god character is seroiusly unstable.
why would we let this raging, unprovable, cosmonazi's opinion influence our stance on such an important issue?
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
Free-will and what we do with it (including sin) is our fault not God's. If you have never studied the Bible than stop talking, because honestly you are forming your own opinions.--and they are false.
buchedda 2 years ago
Comment removed
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
no i've studied the bible for over 15 years thankyou.
god's omniscience dictates that it knew what we would do with free will before the first atom was even created.
so the arbitrary rules put in place, namely the one strike and the entire creation is out rule are definitely god's responsibility.
and obviously it's not necessary, this guy is supposed to be omnipotent, this game could've been set up any way the creator desired, but it prefered the great tragedies we deal with daily
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
Regarding the comment You removed -
If you have studied the Bible for 15 uears and haven't revealed the truth than yoou are interpreting in it by you own means. First off the Book of Genesis is not to be taken word for word, but rather symboliclaly. Humans have free-will because God wants us too choose to love Him. Free-will - we can do good or bad - in reality, we are at fault because we abuse free-will. God created man in His own image and gave us free-will so we can choose Him........
buchedda 2 years ago
"Regarding the comment You removed - "
i removed it because i refered to god as "he" i immediately reposted the comment verbatim sans the gender inference.
that's a low blow pal
of course i interpret the bible as an individual, i subject it to logic and reason, as well as comparing it to other philiosphical sources and come to my personal conclusions.
"The Bible is not meant for people to interpret it to fit their own opinion."
says who?
what reasoning led you to that conclusion?
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
@buchedda exactly
colip13 2 years ago
...continued........
Its like a parent. you should not restrict you child to strict rules and he/she can barely breathe and can't live their own life. They should be more free to do stuff, to learn own their own and make the right decisions on their own so they can learn. Of course not all things are on their own.
Once again your own opinion is getting in the way of the real truth. The Bible is not meant for people to interpret it to fit their own opinion.
buchedda 2 years ago
you're simply not addressing the issue.
why couldn't an omnipotent and omniscient god create a world with free will and without suffering?
a world where everyone FREELY CHOSE to do the right thing all the time. god could do that.
and then, what is heaven? is there no free will there?
because that's supposed to be the goal right? then why go through this middle man? (the here-and-now)
especially when you contemplate the extent of suffering in this world.
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
do you really think the current situation is really a free choice when you contemplate hell? or heaven for that matter?
if i wanted you to freely choose to do my will, would threatening you with torture impair the freeness of your choice? i believe so.
likewise if i offered you a great reward would you be doing it only because you want to? or will the reward impair your judgement?
t00btr0ut 2 years ago
@t00btr0ut - Haha. Funny joke. If someone doesn't believe in hell, what do you tell them? Try arguing for pro life without bringing in god and fancy biblical references, they won't work on a lot of people. And maybe some people would rather go through hell than put a child through it by giving birth, hmm? Or I guess you would just give birth, regardless, and watch your kid become a sociopath.
annisaloves 1 year ago
@annisaloves If you don't want to put a child through hell, than be responsible and keep your privies in your pants. Why dismember a fetus (fetus = little one in latin) with pincers? Or burn his or her little body with liquid solutions? This is how illogical you sound... So a baby doesn't go through hell in this life, lets butcher him or her in the womb. Or better put, instant hell is better than a prolonged one How about looking at life as a gift, I don't see you trying to end your life
nef2442 1 year ago
great video, your so right!!!
bjmdog 2 years ago
Ban the freedom of choice because someone have something against this because of religios reasons is against the freedom of religion.
efg36 2 years ago
Guys, my video explains some really important things about FOCA. You should really watch it and see why this must not be signed into law.
Title of the video is:
The "No Freedom" of Choice Act.
Guardianoftheunborn 2 years ago 2
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be ripped open. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
quicksiliva 2 years ago
We have already gone through this, quicksilva.
Everything in the Old Testament is on a different level than the New Testament. You don't swipe one verse out of the middle of the Old Testament and take it for all truth. The Old Testament was written to be read pointing towards the New.
The change of a "wrathful God" in the OT to a "loving God" in the NT was not a change of God's teaching but a change of man. Just like when a child grows up and sees that their loving parents weren't "wrathful"
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Many laws in the old testament was Moses' laws for those specific people at those specific times. Those laws were replaced by Jesus and the New Covenent came into existence at His 'death' so the new and the old is supposed to be taken together but rightly divided. God didn't murder or command murder, but when anything got in the way of His mission for Israel and the rest of the world, He took the obstacle away. But to place yourself higher than Him is stupid. You don't know His reasonings.
denalaurens 2 years ago
Moses Laws? And Moses got his wisdom from whom? And Jesus said that the old testament must be abided even after the induction of the new testament... It all comes from God, the old and new and it says so in the bible. The 10 commandments are sensible, mostly common sense though. But what about the other 600 in the old testament? I don't place myself higher than any mythical unproven version of God, including the Christian version. But I do place myself higher intellectually than the bible.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
You just admitted that you worship a bipolar God. Again, nothing is taken out of context, nor would the meaning of God's commandments or words be any different if you list the entire page. When god orders people to kill and women and children to be killed and tortured in the bible, it is his Character on the line, and you must determine what is moral, to follow this beast you call God, or to follow your own good conscience.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
God is the one who created our conscience! :)
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
sorry, wrong agian... there is no proof and any higher being created conscience.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
I've been casting my pearls before swine, and I shall stop. Seek Jesus with your whole heart and serve Him only!
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
You heard me wrong,
The change of a "wrathful God" in the OT to a "loving God" in the NT was "NOT" a change of God's teaching but a change of man. Just like when a child grows up and sees that their loving parents weren't wrathful. The change takes place in mankind. Just as the parents Yell at their children "Don't touch that electrical cord!" The children aren't ready to hear the reasons why. It just comes out, "Don't". God allowed for things before the fullness of Truth was available.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
CaMedia, of course it was a change of man. Man's creation of a hateful, vengeful God of the bible was getting old and the more evolved man of the new testament wanted a more positive representation of God. So it was written to make God look good instead of bad. God is a representation of what man wants God to be. It's a selfish indulgent act for man to create what he thinks God to be, and then tell other people it's the truth.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
If Christians were trying to push this false "god" on people, wouldn't they leave out the Old Testament? It makes perfect sense that if God was make believe, the believers wouldn't push writings that "sound" hard to believe. The only logical explanation is that the writings that go above our head are Truth.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
There are many pushers of the old testament, such as baptists, etc.... It will never go away.. But don't you think because of the clash between the old and new testament, that Atheists, agnostics, or any anti-religious groups have a solid point on the validity of the Christian god? You have to admit, it comes down to warm fuzzies for most people and Faith, they're only reasoning. But for logically minded people, faith is not enough. Who created logical people, the devil?
quicksiliva 2 years ago
No, God created logical people. Faith and human reason must coexist in a man in order to believe, understand and love God.
Faith alone leads to fanaticalism. Logic alone leads to spritual blindness. A balance of both lead to wisdom and understanding.
Guardianoftheunborn 2 years ago
HE IS GOD AND WE ARE NOT!!!
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
He is God, so he has the right to tell you not to do the evil things he does himself? Your God is evil.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
@quicksiliva The problem that you are having is distinguishing between DESCRIPTIVE history, versus PRESCRIPTIVE history. Many things in the OT are DESCRIPTIVE history of the Jews For example, when God commands the Israelites to kill, Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites (Deuteronomy 20:17). You don't read in the papers how Jews & Christians are blowing themselves up to kill Hittites do you? This was a descriptive historical event of Jewish conquest, not prescriptive
nef2442 1 year ago
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the their women with child shall be ripped up. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
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HE IS GOD AND WE ARE NOT!!!
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for Gods intervention. Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
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GinKirk7256 2 years ago
In all truth, either folks are pro-life or pro-death! What about the choice of the unborn baby? What about his/her inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The definition of liberty is the freedom to do that which is right! My new motto is "Use your might to stand up and fight for what's right!" If we remain silent, evil will prevail! The American Holocaust of abortion will not be eradicated if we don't, first of all and most importantly, pray and then speak out!
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
You must show proof and back up your belief that abortion is evil. Please show the bible verse that says so.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Is one of the Ten Commandments not enough proof for you???
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
I find it best to answer if Im asked "Are you pro choice or pro life" no comment. That way no one will ever know where you stand. it bugs the hell out of them people.
peppytwo 2 years ago
Comment removed
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Yes I guess this help with employment right?? Once all these Catholic hospitals close. Way to go Mr. President. Everyday is something worse.
tmlillie925 2 years ago
Souls enter the body at many different times, individual to the soul. Some will enter after 8 weeks, not always staying but floating around the new body the soul is about to inhabit. Souls leave and return many times thruout pregnancy, familiarizing itself with it's new body. Some souls don't enter the body until right before birth. It's purely individual... If for whatever reason a soul is unable to be born, (i.e. spontaneous or intentional abortion), that soul will find another body to enter.
indigomoon207 2 years ago
Um... Is this something you made up? Where did you hear this?
The souls are made exclusively for the bodies they are living with. The body=the person=the soul. It is not some kind of prison, but rather both are needed for unique personhood.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
There is no proof that souls exist, nor should it be a subject of argumentation. To say the soul does this or that is no more crazy than to acknowledge without evidence that it exists to begin with.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
There will always be people who look for some formula or sign spelled in the stars for proof, when the "proof" is right in front of them.
What makes us so different from animals?
You might say evolution. I say there has to be divine intervention to reach our beauty of life, our souls.
Why do we search for love constantly?
Is it because we want to "feel good" or is there something running deeper in ever human person.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
There will always be people like yourself looking for meaning in ancient caveman writtings... really no different than astrology if you think about it. What makes us different from animals? Well because of our intelligence, we know how to wipe out masses of our own species and we're much more violent. So to put it into perspective we are morally bankrupt compared to say a Lion, who only kills for food.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
At least 25% of fertilized human eggs are spontaneously aborted. This makes God the world's biggest abortionist.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Hmm...
Are you saying that natural causes brought on by evil are directly from God?
I would say, yes there are evil things in the world, not because God directs them, but God permits them because we have to grow closer to Him through suffering. There is sickness because of original sin and lack of Grace. I'm sure you really wanted to make a point there, but it is the same as any other evil thing in this world...
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
God permits evil, then he is evil... It's time for you to take logic 101. Based on the definitions of God, labeling it as all-knowing, all-powerful, you don't create something just to watch it suffer or allow evil (the devil) to coexist with a creation that you love. Nothing about original sin makes any sense, nor the bible.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Well I'm sorry that's the conclusion you reached, but the explanation is easier than you think. God loves ALL creation. He loves us so much that He gave us a free will (I know you have heard all this, but pay attention). So we could choose anything we wanted. Can you imagine a life without free will?! He never stops loving and just because most people turn towards evil or disregard what makes them happy isn't going to make Him stop loving them. Ergo, evil people will exist.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
LOL your in error because how can you say the universe is evil without some kind of conception of justice?
JTownSmith 2 years ago
Justice is what we put upon ourselves.
Moving farther and farther away from God is just hurting ourselves and that is the "fiery" justice people think of.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
There will soon be no more freedom of any kind. Doctors and hospitals will all be forced to preform abortions, the "Fairness Doctrine" will take away our freedom of speech, especially on radio, we are fast losing our right to bear arms, the Govt. is nationalizing the banks, the auto industry, and many other industries. And we are being told what cars to drive, what light bulbs to use, what kind of TV to buy, etc... Welcome to the USSA. Pray for America and the world.
JERice7 2 years ago
How is this a freedom of religion issue? Don't take public funds. If you take public funds then the government can tell you what to do. Seems pretty obvious.
RockGirlll92 3 years ago 2
Our Lady of Walsingham, pray for the wicked
TrainmasterCurt 3 years ago
I have to wonder what Obama is thinking by forcing doctors to choose between their jobs and their morals, or by supporting an act that would destroy the hospital system. Beliefs on the issue aside, can he not see how catastrophic this would be? It's scary really, because no sane person would pass this.
waldoman7 3 years ago
I am strongly pro-choice, and STRONGLY against this outrageous act, assuming that it is all I've heard. I need to do some research still
Now, if it's true that doctors will be forced to perform abortions, this law is barbaric like nothing america has seen since it denied people the right to vote based on race/gender.
waldoman7 3 years ago
Not only doctors, but even those without medical licenses can perform an abortion at ANY stage and on any age of girl WITHOUT that girls parents ever noticing.
This video is a tip of the iceberg.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
If the hospitals are taking public funds, then they don't get to pick and choose which services they will offer, or who they will serve.
If the Catholic hospitals don't take public funds, then this whole "freedom of choice act" business does seem onerous.
I'm not a U.S. citizen or resident, so I don't know about the details.
KosmicCitizen 3 years ago 2
abortion is legal in most of the states. What the freedom of choice act will do is erace any law in any state that has to do with abortion. No parental notification, no restrictions on partial birth abortion, no limit of when abortions can be done, up to and including 8months and 29 days before birth..........get the picutre. This is a dream of Planned Parent Hood. The abortion machine that doesn't care about you or your unborn. All they care about is the MONEY. Wake up America!
patjoppien 3 years ago
Pro choice is pro life. Forcing women into back alleys is anti-life and anti-family.
eelzen 3 years ago
I wouldn't mind being labeled as someone who "forces" women to spare their baby's lives.
They aren't forced anywhere. They had their choice to abstain or not. The choice was made up to 9 months before the abortion. Pro"choice" is an abstraction of the "choice" to murder.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
I see. This is about your desire to punish women for having intercourse. And, as long as it's not your daughter being butchered in a back alley, what to you care about life. I get it. Fine. I moving on from your sanctimonious views..
eelzen 3 years ago
the legal definition of murder is killing with malice aforethought, i.e., bad intentions. abortions are performed for the betterment of the fetus and woman. i dont see where the rights of a fetus, that has no thoughts or feelings, trump the rights of a sentinent woman. what if when a close relative of yours went into labor with their third child, the doctors discovered a complication where the mother could die giving birth? should she HAVE to die giving birth without a say in it?
southparkADD1CT 3 years ago
I'm sorry how is slaughtering the fetus done "for the betterment of the fetus"? A child in the womb DOES have thoughts and feelings- in many cases the baby can feel physical pain from the abortion; also, while its brain is developing and growing, the baby can react to stimuli like light, sound, and motion.
drezwinesap 3 years ago
drezwinesap: the 'slaughtering' as you call it is done so that the fetus doesn't have to go though an entire lifetime of pain from bad parents, crippling disabilities, etc. unlike you, i focus my attention on living people.
a fetus in the womb does NOT have thoughts and feelings, and i guarentee you cant prove otherwise. fetuses only have enough brain waves to make reflexes- hence the opening of the mouth mistaken for a 'scream'.
southparkADD1CT 3 years ago
I'm not sure where you are getting your information but you are wrong. I'm sure that scientific proof is out there but I don't need it. My wife and I have our own proof. When my wife was pregnant with my daughter my daughter loved certain types of music. She would kick in time with the music to some songs and other songs she would calm right down. When she would be kicking my wife all I had to do was tell her that mommy and daddy love her and put my hand on her tummy and she would calm down. Wow
bond519 3 years ago
bond, that is truly beautiful!!!
southparkADD1CT, you must understand that the fetus can feel pain just after 8 weeks of growth. And what a horrible pain that must be! Your assumption that there is no quality of life in aborted fetuses because you assume the family is better off with no children is a stretch if I have ever seen one and a stretch in the wrong direction. I know of a man who could have been aborted but grew up in a broken family. That man is Obama, who I am guessing you voted for.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
CaMediaRC, Dogs and cats respond to music too, yet for human convenience we put down millions of unwanted pets yearly. Studies have also show plants respond to music. We kill and eat plants daily for our survival. Morally and logically, in my opinion, families should be keep to one or two children until our population is under control. Besides Obama - Hitler, Stalin, and bin Laden could have been aborted. I am guessing you think their lives are worth protecting no matter what.
eelzen 3 years ago
Your argument is flawed. The argument is whether or not the fetus is a person in the womb. The relation between dogs holds no ground because he is relating humans being in the womb and out of the womb. Yes we are on top of the food chain and we eat plants and animals... The relation is with the same species. You noticed something you could relate to animals and you went on a tangent. How does evil people justify killing the unborn? They made there choices. Everyone deserves life, like yourself.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
Your argument seems to move and change depending on the life form. I didn't know being on top of a food chain decides what fetus is worth saving. Interesting. Do sharks know that? Anyway, I'm not justifying the acts of evil people. All kinds of women will seek abortions for all kinds of reasons. That is not going to change. For the safety of their lives, abortion should be legal and safe. This women are all people just like yourself.
eelzen 3 years ago
bond519 fetuses DO NOT have thoughts or feelings. they only have primitive brain waves. fetuses don't know what the words 'love' and 'daddy' are. what you were feeling were reflexes that fetuses make all of the time. find me one source that says fetuses have thoughts and feelings.
southparkADD1CT 3 years ago
You are another naive scientific fool. The wonder of life is a miracle enough. Why do idiots like you feel the need to prove everything. Somethimes you can't explain something because it is a miracle. I don't need to prove fetus feelings to you and you can't prove fetus non feeling to me. I know I am right and you are too stupid to be open minded enough to even see the wonder of living. Your problem is that you think that everything needs to be proven.Take a look at a live ultrasound and believe
bond519 3 years ago
science cannot prove everything, and it doesn't pretend to. although, it's proven that emotions like love and things like smiling are activities that need social connotations. smiling requires a degree of self-consciousness and experience of interacting with other people. babies often smile when they wet their diapers, does this mean that they are experiencing emotions like when someone sees a friend? no. see, i believe things because they are logical, not because they make me feel better.
southparkADD1CT 3 years ago
What about the science of the ultrasound? A good ultrasound tech will tell you that the baby can smile and they even will move when uncomfortable. So you can take all of your so called scientific proof and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I have seen it and so sad for you if you havent.
bond519 3 years ago
Just because a fetus moves its facial muscles and curves its lips does not mean it is 'smiling'. it is PROVEN things like smiling are activities that need social connotations. you are incorrect and you have no contest. i understand you have a problem with people that are skeptical/use science to discover a broader understanding in life. i don't want or need you to automatically agree with me, i just want you to know where i'm coming from.
southparkADD1CT 3 years ago
You may want me to know where you are coming from but I really don't care. When my wife was pregnant with my daughter my mother was on her death bed. My mother died knowing that her granddaughter felt her Grandmothers hand. My daughter remembers her grandmothers voice and my Mother died in February 1998 and my daughter was born in June of 1998. So don't tell me that my daughter couldn't feel her grandmothers touch or hear her voice. If you're skeptical or not, You can't prove me wrong AT ALL.
bond519 3 years ago
im sorry for your loss. but really, it is impossible for a fetus to develop long term memory because that part of the brain isn' t fully developed until about age 2. a lot of people claim that they remember being in the womb/being born, but those memories usually draw from what people tell them. you obliviously won't hear anything different because you have already convinced yourself that you're right.
southparkADD1CT 3 years ago
im pro CHOICE,....as long as the parents are killed too.
darpachief 3 years ago
I'd personally rather be killed before I was born than at 18 being shot to death.... Why don't we take a pole and see what others think?..... I don't buy the stupidity of Christianity and it's stance on abortion. The whole religion is immoral and evil.
quicksiliva 3 years ago
How are you going to poll the unborn? How will a poll like that help?
Are you saying those are the only two options? I would venture to say that 95% of people wouldn't want to have been aborted.
Do you have any examples of the actual religion being immoral and evil?
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
Let them close down.... It only shows the true colors of how hateful and immoral the catholic religion is.... They will only help you if you conform to their demands.
quicksiliva 3 years ago
Yes we spoke with Mr. Schwartz of Tom Coburn's office - My friend Joyce(7abortions) who is on my youtube Channel - I was Wrong (dot ) info ane I met with him for an hour - Joyce had also heard this from someone else the day before - so it is the buzz in DC
I thought it was the best news too!
Obama has signed the Mexico City abortion bill- which we "now will fund"
overseas abortion - his agenda is much more global than just affecting America.
But for America....There is Hope!
dovecry2 3 years ago
While in DC LAST week to meet with congressional at the March For Life - A DC insider said the FOCA WILL NOT MAKE IT OUTSIDE congressional - it's a fight Obama dosn't want - I pray the Publc Outcry in America over abortion will get louder and louder Iwaswrong(dot) info.
dovecry2 3 years ago
If that is true, then that is the best news I have ever heard in my entire life!
Thank you!
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
what the fuck! how can you say choose real freedom when you dont have any choice! i am getting angry with this religious propaganda! listen for one second. most republicans are religious. republicans wanteed to go to war. in going to war you destroy everything you stand for by killing your so called "enemies". i am not trying to completely write off religion but how do we really know what a "god" would be for and against? we wouldnt know what she thinks thats right gods a chick
uvi517 3 years ago
You can't lump republicans into one category. People in america wanted to go to war, both Democrats and Republicans. People were against the war, both Democrats and Republicans. If a God made us, then he obviously made us with a desire to want love and happiness. We all strive for it. You don't find happiness in immoral acts when you break it down. You can't be truly happy in immorality. Care to try and prove me wrong?
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
this video is bullshit.
Would FOCA do as the vid says - force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions?
Unequivocally no, says Jill Morrison, senior counsel at the National Women's Law Center. Federal conscience clause law, such as the Church Amendment, states that simply receiving public funding does not turn a hospital into a "state actor," Morrison explains.
cyranothe2nd 3 years ago
"FOCA must be read consistently with existing federal law, unless the new law explicitly provides that it is intended to repeal existing law."
Morrison adds, "A hospital is not a state actor, and cannot be magically transformed into one due to its getting Federal funding, as set forth in the Church Amendment."
cyranothe2nd 3 years ago
If the government wants catholic hospitals to perform abortions, then the catholic hospitals must close, and the government can buy them and run them.
PhilippeDeChampaigne 3 years ago
That is the definition of socialism. Way-to-go US government.
pdburk 3 years ago
Maybe someone can answer this question: If abortions were made illegal, how could this be enforced? Millions of people are pro-choice. How can you keep us off the jury, particularly in states like NY, NJ, Mass, Vt, and Cal. Another thing: How would you prevent women from having an abortion abroad? Would women have to undergo a pregnancy test before leaving the US and upon their return? Didn't the failure of Prohibition teach us that unpopular laws cannot be enforced in a democracy.
ers586 3 years ago
Taber: it won't happen again.
ers586 3 years ago
ers: I have you on blocked, but it's obviously not working. So if you please, just post it and not reply to me. Cause I really don't travel the road you're on. Thanks.
TabersLion 3 years ago
My point was made with my first three post. I've fell pray to others that twist words and meanings just to have an argument. I'm one of those that keeps it simple. for i.e., If that is what Scriptures reads, then that is what it is. It's really not rocket science to me, that abortion is murder. Adios.
TabersLion 3 years ago
When? At conception. Human life starts at conception. Science proves this without question.
Theocracy? Hardly. Giving value to every human being is a very humanistic ideal.
pdburk 3 years ago 2
Where does this absurdity end? Should it be illegal for a woman to undergo chemo treatment isuch an act would damage her fetus? Should any woman who experiences a miscarriage face a murder investigation? Should our citizenship be determined by where we were conceived instead of where we were born? Should age requirements (voting, drinking, retirement, driving, consent, attending school, etc) be backdated by 9 months? Should a woman pregant with triplets be allowed to use the car pool lane?
ers586 3 years ago
I have heard beautiful stories of women not undergoing chemo because of the fact that it would damage the fetus. Think outside the box.
It seems absurd, but if the fetus is a person then it would be grounds for a murder investigation, but our country is not close to that kind of truth.
Our age is represented by when we are born, why would that have to change? It seems illogical. Carpool lanes are for those who share a car instead of driving themselves. Your argument doesn't hold any ground.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
But what of the woman who already has young children depending on her? Does she have the right to risk making them motherless? I would think her first obligation is to be around to care for those already born. What right would you or I have to make the choice FOR her? As for our age, if our laws say life begins at conception, it would certainly impact on every age-related law in existence. Car pooling was an attempt at humor.
ers586 3 years ago
If the woman can't afford a child she shouldn't have sex, right? It is the consequences of bonding irresponsibly that causes this problem. The problem is not the baby. The problem is a lack of self control. You can abstract all you want and call it just a "choice". I will do one better and say that every crime and sin is a "choice" and we shouldn't infringe on people's choices... It begins at discipline.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
CaMediaRC : Well said.
TabersLion 3 years ago
Do you want to end most abortions in the US? Then vote for candidates who will provide families with health insurance and affordable medicine, children with a quality schools, college students with low cost loans or scholarships, a decent minimum wage, shelters for the homeless, equal pay for women, and child support from absent fathers. Perhaps then there would be fewer abortions. But the very people who are pro-life oppose most if not all of these measures
ers586 3 years ago
I vote against candidates who support abortion upfront and directly. Abortion is always an issue with candidates and all those other issues are secondary to an immediate human life. Barack Obama is now on on-the-job-training. And his first act could lay waste to Health Care. Catholic hospitals are the foremost provider of health care because they are mostly non-profit. Now he is totally disregarding what Catholics believe wholeheartedly and forcing us to go against our religion.
CaMediaRC 3 years ago
ers586: If you want to, you can continue to ask medical ethics questions concerning abortion--trying to complicate matters. Things really are pretty simple, though.
Statistics show that the circumstances you want to debate are such a small fraction of abortions carried out in the US. Why are you not willing to deal with the fact that abortion kills children?
What is the most basic right, the right to choose or the right to Life? No other right is possible when life is denied.
pdburk 3 years ago 2
OK, let's stick to the rule rather than the excepton. Most abortions occur within the first 3 months of gestation. At that point, we are discussing an embyo, not a fetus. I believe the rights of a 25 or 30 year old woman outweigh the rights of a 2 or 3 month old embryo. Complete strangers have any no right to compel the woman to carry that embryo to term. And based on the popular results of 4 of the last 5 Presidential elections, most voters agree with me.
ers586 3 years ago
An appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy which really has no relevance to the actual issue. You believe that the rights of a 25 or 30 year old woman outweighs the rights of a 2 or 3 months old embryo. Why? Do the rights of an 80 year old outweigh the rights of a 5 year old? Your argument seems to be that the unborn are not people. Mine is that they are. You call this a medical procedure. I call it genocide. "Complete strangers" elected the past 5 of 5 presidents, so what's your point?
smiledammit24 3 years ago
Genocide is the targeted killing of a people because of race, ethnicity or religion. Because abortion is practiced by members of diff. races, etnicities, religion, etc. it cannot be called genocide. My appeal to popularity is valid because in a democracy, laws that lack the support of a majority of people have little likelihood of being enforced. (Consider prohibition.) Third, adults have rights that children don't. For similar rasons, those born have rights that fetuses don't.
ers586 3 years ago
If America is a God-State, why do you vote? Make the Bible to Law
efg36 3 years ago
The bible doesnt have the law to rule a country, but the law to rule ones conscience.
JTownSmith 3 years ago 2
There is nothing in the bible mentioning abortion.
quicksiliva 3 years ago
I would disagree with that for the bible in the new testament mentions that life begins in the woumb, and that in the old testament it states a murder of a pregnant women is a murder of 2.
JTownSmith 3 years ago
You can't just say things like that without proof.... give me word for word biblical verse, and I will give you verses you probably didn't read or don't want to read....
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Doesnt matter, ive read it through once before its not like it be anything new, what are you going to do link me the verse that god killed the first born in egypt that didnt heed his warning? lol go ahead and copy and paste.
JTownSmith 2 years ago
God did much worse things than that in the bible. But you know his approval of genocide, rape, torture, slavery, and every other atrocity to mankind.... since you've read the bible, and STILL think that God loves you. Bipolar personalities might still be capable of love, but you must not forget the other side to the equation.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Genocide is agaisnt a commandment of god.
Punishment for rape is also found in the old testament.
Slavery rules from the egyptians is mentioned.
Seems like your the one who hasnt read the bible.
JTownSmith 2 years ago
(Deuteronomy 20:10-14) As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
you're completely delusional and need to be locked up away from society
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Do you think you have an argument when you pick one part out of a bible and stand to prove of God as contradictory. Have you ever picked up a book to read and decided, "Well I'm just going to read the very beginning, some of the third chapter, and then the end." Would that book make any sense to you?
Now since I can understand in human terms, the whole of the bible, I understand why that verse is in there, but I think explaining it to you might result in a five verse tangent of timeless "proof".
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
Actually, that is a piss poor argument... Each verse is numbered and therefore understood as an individual verse. Even if you put each verse back into the context of the whole, does that really change what the verse says word for word? You're a biblical appologist and you're making excuses for what it really says. Please stick to the actual meaning of each verse and go ahead and put it into context, and explain to me how that changes anything.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
The verses weren't numbered and "understood as individual verses" until after the scriptures were written.
The verses being numbered made it easier to find things in the bible, not to have each verse be a different teaching.
First of all that was written in the Old Testament and if you knew anything about relation between Old Testament and New Testament you would realize that the fulness of Truth is found only by reading the Old Testament in light of the New Testament.
CaMediaRC 2 years ago
tell that crap to any preacher who reads versus, often times jumping around to different spots in the bible and then making a complete sermon from those verses... You just invalidated your religion. Further Jesus tells us not to ignore the old testament. The relationship between the old and new testament is that they are both written by humans, not any God... And it's evident. But the contents of the immoral bible are enough to steer away any man that has good conscience.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
Your completely arrogant and should read that whole book of the bible before taking one verse out of context. Society took a lot from this book, so why would it lock me up? lol
JTownSmith 2 years ago
I know the bible better than you, and that is why I don't try to change the meaning of what it actually says.... If you're looking for a God that doesn't create evil to wreck havoc in your life, or a god that is not angry and jealous and hateful, much like that of a human, then the bible is not the place to look.
quicksiliva 2 years ago
The undemocrated nominated Pastors hold the elected Presidant -The representent od the Democracy- as a hostage. America Defend Your Freedom and Your Democracy. The Capital of America is Washington, not a Quartier in Rome.
efg36 3 years ago
Where were the Right to Life folks when President Bush went to China during the Olympics. In China, women who already have had a child are compelled against their will to undergo abortions. Yet there was President Bush, at the Chinese Olympics and here is China, the source of so many imports. RTL should demand that stores like K-Mart, Wall-Mart, Target, etc shop selling Chinese imports. But THAT"S not going to happen. Why not?
ers586 3 years ago
So Obama made it clear that his religious faith is the "christian" faith, whatever that means these days. So the Creator long ago made it clear, very clear His thoughts of a fetus. Exodus 21:22-23,But if any HARM follows, then you shall give "LIFE for LIFE". Your Creator says an unborn (fetus) is a life, a life the same as, equal to any other human life, born or unborn. OT or NT a life is a life no matter what age of time we live in. I quess Obama didn't read the source of his so-called faith.
TabersLion 3 years ago 2
You misquote Exodus and distort its meaning. Exodus 21:22-23 says, "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follows: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine." That's NOT the same as "eye for an eye." Elsewhere that chapter indicates that those who kill shall be put to death. But no such punishment is spelled out for someone who cause a miscarriage.
ers586 3 years ago
ers586: Okay, Verse 22 makes it very clear the subject matter is the unborn. Verse 23 makes it clear the loss of the unborns life is a life, "life for life". I'm not giving this as an example of the enforcement of a law. It's an example that proves God, The Creator of human life considers the unborn human a life equal to, in value as a born human. It wasn't a misquote, lol.
TabersLion 3 years ago
Verse 23: "If any mischief follows, then thou shalt give life for life." So....this refers to any action AFTER the miscarriage. Of course, Exodus declares that if a child curses his parents, he should be put to death. If one is to follow the Bible, shouldn't THAT requirement be followed?
ers586 3 years ago
ers586: The original Hebrew, there are no verses or subject changes. The Scriptures continue talking about the unborn. The word mischief translated from "acown" means hurt, injury. It continues about the unborns life or loss of the unborns life that may follow. Again equal too a born life. V. 22 the word hurt is from nagaph, to inflict. If you're gona use the1611 translations, then at least learn why the words are used. Why do you keep harping about the laws of Moses? I don't get the connection.
TabersLion 3 years ago
The fetus's life cannot be equated with that of a human being. A man who murders a pregnant woman is subject to the death penalty, but if the attacker causes the woman's fetus to be lost, but no other injury insues, he is subject to a monetary fine. The presumption behind this ruling is that while a murderer should be executed, one who causes the abortion of a fetus is not a murderer, because a fetus is not a human life. See Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, The Book of Jewish Values (2000).
ers586 3 years ago
ers586: Okay, you can just stay stuck on stupid. Gen 46:15 Note 33 in all, only 32 names. Why? Levi's wife was with child for the journey. Numbers 26:59 The child was born in Egypt. Still that life(fetus)(a life) that you claim is not human was counted as a "person" before his birth by our Creator. Obviously I use what the Scriptures prove. Obviouly you need and find others as J. Telushin to support you're muderous ideology.
TabersLion 3 years ago
So it takes 3 exchanges before you become abusive. Let's see if you could answer THIS: IF abortion is banned in the US, HOW can you enforce the law? The millions who are pro-choice. would serve on the juries and would refuse to convict anyone charged with this "crime.". Meanwhile any woman seeking to terminate her pregnancy could fly to Europe for a safe legal abortion. Or would you make it manditory for every woman to undergo a pregnancy test before leaving the USA? Even if you win, you lose.
ers586 3 years ago
esr: abusive ? LMAO. You call destruction to a human fetus nothing more than getting ride of, of a pimple. And then when someone refers to you as stuck on stupid you get offended ? Again, LMAO@U. It's Okay to laugh huh ? Hitler.
TabersLion 3 years ago
I never called having an abortion nothing more than removing a pimple. What a cruel thing to say. A friend of mine had one and afterwards I held her as she wept. When the US Constitution was written, abortion was legal in all 13states. The one group who could NOT choose to have an abortion was slaves because that fetus belonged to the MASTER. Millions of Americans are pro-choice and calling them Hitlers certainly won't change any minds.
ers586 3 years ago
ers: I know you didn't call it that way, duh. So you haven't figured it out, that's how you project your thoughts about "the" aborted to others ? As if the aborted are nothing more than "nothing", a pimple, as waste, as trash, as unworthy to any other. Honestly I despise for your kind of attitude and support you have towards abortion. Nothing says I have to like it or respect you for it, or how you're so determined to justify those cruel and inhuman actions.
TabersLion 3 years ago
ers: Furthermore I didn't responed back to you to "change" anyone's mind. A nation of people that provides "families with health insurance and affordable medicine, children with a quality schools, college students with low cost loans or scholarships, a decent minimum wage, shelters for the homeless, equal pay for women, and child support from absent fathers." Again, I oppose tax payers monies paying for abortions.
TabersLion 3 years ago
Blind people's taxes support art museum, deaf people's taxes support symphony orchestras, vegetarians' taxes support meat inspection, Christian Scientists' taxes support medical resarch, pacifists' taxes support wars, the taxes of crime victims pay for the food, clothing and medicine of convicted criminals, the taxes of childless people pay for the public schools, and the taxes of illiterates pay for libraries. So you are part of a pretty large club.
ers586 3 years ago
ers: Abortion, yes I don't support that as a choice for any human being. I find it to be murder(period). I couldn't have prevented people since the begining of mankind from aborting. Nothing is going to stop it. According to Scripture, it get even more horriffic before "The Day Of The Lord". I will say in my earlier post that I oppose tax payers money to pay for abortions. That way I wouldn't be part of cruel murders. Again I'm pleased to say. People as you ARE stuck on stupid, #2 right?
TabersLion 3 years ago