Copyrights in Oriental Dance by Beata & Horacio Cifuentes

[Bahira1001]

I see that there are a lot of things imitaed from your choreographies!! Great choreographies by the way :) But is it a problem for you, if a non-professional dancer like me takes the music from your CDs and dances his/herher own choreography to the music and puts it on youtube? Just a question, I haven't uploaded anything.

[pabloAbdel]

sea o no una copia, cada bailarinas (las dos primeras) poseen una esencia, un estilo único que, aquella esencia es imposible copiarlo por tan sólo algunos pasos. Beata es elegante, sobria, precisa, y la otra bailarina bastante estilizada para algunos casos.

[MariaMarusita]

фу какие у беккер ресницы клееные..

[alhasanification]

Does anybody now the name of the last song with beata and the big puppet !?

[Alia256]

Ich hab dich gesehen im Polen ein Jahr her und das war wunderbar. Deine Tanz erläuchtet mich *.*

[mandomom2003]

Artists differ in their requirement of use of their material; as it is stated here, ask first.

[mandomom2003]

Ethereal Tribal; it is quite evident that this is a copy, not someone who has "interpreted' the dance in the same way. Like many dancers, I watch lots of videos and yes, it is amazing how other choreographers will put a hip drop or shimmy in where I have done so, however, this is a copy. There are obviously combinations in full taken here, with torso, arms and accents identical, or only one thing changed slightly.

[edus20]

of course it's a shame to see this kind of copies, however original artists shouldn't pay a lot of attention to these, beaucause they can always create more beautiful interpretations that the copycat's can never get, at least not with the corret emotions.

[EtherealTribal]

i'm not saying that they were not copied, and i'm not saying that copying is not correct, however i did not find the dances to be exactly the same, more like similar interpretations with sometimes similar (and standard vocab movements) and in other places very different movements. It doesn't surprise me that the dancers turn in the same places either, becaue the music calls for it in those place, and it is common to turn at the end of musical phrases. (excluding big head thing at the end)

[EtherealTribal]

Ok, so i'm going to be a bit of a black sheep here. After watching the peices together, and knowing that oriental dance has a very specific vocabulary, and a very specific way of hitting accents, and very specific foot/floor patterns, and specific expressions. Do we not think it possible that two dancers could interpret a song in a similar fashion? Like, if one person shimmies on a drum roll, then no one after can? and if someone arabesques on a long melodic violin note, no one else can?

[BeataHoracio]

@EtherealTribal Hi sweetie,

not if one dancer gets a DVd with the other on it and copies it. anyway, in this case it is very clear that it is a copy, almost 100% identical.

keep dancing, beata

[EtherealTribal]

@BeataHoracio well then, that settles it!

[yameyameyame]

@EtherealTribal EtherealTribal, although you do raise a good point that two dancers can dance the same song similarly without even knowing it, this one in particular was a clear and deliberate copy, identical in almost all parts.

[FreelanceFool]

@EtherealTribal

You have to be kidding! Oriental Dance is hardly THAT limited. I'm not a dancer myself (amateur dance photographer, videographer and webmaster) but even I can tell this is a copy of a choreography. 90% of the time the movements are identical. The statistical chances of two dancers interpreting the same piece of music in such a similar way are about as likely as two artists painting the same picture of the same scene in the same style.



[larastrange]

i think maria aya is right... if you want to use someone else's choreography, you should at least say or write what you're doing... i sometimes use choreographies i learnt in workshops, but i always write "choreo by XXX" or "inspired by XXX"...

[narzisse100]

Schwieriges Thema ! Heutzutage wird alles kopiert: die Industrie hat damit zu kämpfen, die Kreationen der Designer werden schon während der Show kopiert- wir alle tragen dann diese Teile.

Nun auch in der Kunst. Allerdings zeigt uns die Dame damit nur, was Sie alles NICHT kann: sie kann kein Gefühl für die Musik und den Tanz entwickeln, Sie kann kein Stück interpretieren, Sie kann nicht choreographieren, Sie hat keine Fantasie, Sie kann sich selbst nicht mal anziehen...

Wie blamabel !

[SahelaBodywave]

@narzisse100

Voll unterschreib, sie ist zwar in der Lage, die Grundstruktur zu klauen, aber kann nicht mal die Akzente richtig betonen. Trauriger Abklatsch.

Bei den gefakten Uhren fahren sie immer mit ner Dampfwalze drüber. Sollte man bei Tänzerin auch einführe... bööööööser Gedanke....

[ImmanMussa]

What a thief!!!

[BeataHoracio]

dear anonymus,

we are not sure what you mean- who are "They dont allow anyone to dance to their music" ? Who are "they"?

thank you

[BeataHoracio]

hi again,

we have many colleagues worldwide who use our music on their DVds. they have a contract, pay a small fee and include credits as mentioned in the contract. that is fine with us, we just dont like to it when somebody uses our work without giving credit.

best wishes, beata and horacio

[Zoraliane]

@Annonymus

personally, I think that if a dancer pays for the lessons in which an other artist teaches a choreography, buys the cds, and then uses what he/she learned in a show, he/she MUST say where the music AND the choreography (if there are no important changes from the original one)come from. It's not fair to use someone else's work and take the merit of it (and earning too), especially in a Festival. It's a fraud.

In Italy, we pay the SIAE, Italian Society of Authors and Publishers

[BeataHoracio]

thank you for asking! the music danced by beata is "Msafer wahdak" from the CD Oriental Fantasy Vol 11, it is also on the DVD Oriental Fantasy "Enchanted Gardens". Horacio´s drum solo is on the DVD Oriental Fantasy "Egyptian Love Affair".

[ReenBlom]

Talking about copyrights, havnt noticed the music credits? LOL LOL LOL

[NurelAmar]

es ist immer wieder das gleiche,mann probt ,stellt zusammen,arbeitet hart an einer coreo umd dan kommt jemand dahergelaufen und kopiert und dann noch nicht mal so gut wie das vorbild aber das passiert leider allen großen künstlern also ärgert euch nicht soviel darüber

alles liebe und viel positive energie sende ich euch

[purucudu]

Hallo Beata Hallo Horacio

habe gerade das Video mit meinem Mann angeschaut, er hat sich in Horacio verliebt :-)) Gute Tänzer werden immer kopiert und bei einem Vergleich 1:1 tanzen sogar eure Schatten besser als die anderen, ärgert euch nicht ihr Seid sowieso die Besten macht so weiter, LG Nino & Danya

[purucudu]

Hallo Beata Hallo Horacio

habe euer video mit meinem Mann angeschaut, mein Mann hat sich in Horacio verliebt :-)) man kopiert normalerweise nur Gute Leute was bei euch auch der Fall ist, aber bei diesem Vergleich 1:1 tanzen eure schatten sogar besser als die anderen...Ärgert euch nicht.....an euch kommt so leicht keiner dran weiter so ....LG Danya & Nino

[pharaon]

i tend to belief some dancers thought by improvising a choreographer's choreography calls it theirs, and sees no fault at it, but neither they would've known that is also copyright, provided the choreographers themselves gives a yes for performing their number not forgetting to even credit them. Even so, all professionals should respect the dancer's choreography and seek permission.

[daisydances]

I am amazed and shocked! This is Titanya and I am so happy that this has come about in the open! My feelings are boiling inside for you, Beata. I guess this girl has copied Dondi's Marilyn routine too! Wow! Yes, a compliment to the one who created it, but it is appropriate to mention the artist's name as sole creator of the choreography. many blessings in dance!

[nuringa]

Bravo Beata and Horacio for bringing this out so clearly! i always admire your talant and creativity! your big fan here in Moscow.

[edance67]

Hallo Beata und Horacio, nur die wirklich super guten werden kopiert!

Kleiner Trost, Ihr seid so etwas wunderbares für die Nacheiferer wie Elvis für den Rock und Michael Jackson für den Pop seht es als Kompliement und ärgert euch nicht!

Verzaubert weiterhin eure Fans und denkt dran die Kopie ist nichts ohne das Original, warum sich über "NICHTS" ärgern?

Ich wurde schon vor 18 Jahren kopiert von Neidern die keine eigene Kreativität hatten &meine Gagen unterboten!

Esther

[FrutyJelly]

das ist so unverschämt. unfassbar. gut das ihr diese gegenüberstellung online gestellt habt.

liebe grüße, josefine

[starfire3001]

Das ist ja unfassbar! War N. B. vielleicht nicht bewußt, wieviel sie da wirklich kopiert hat? Immerhin muß ihr klar sein, dass dies nicht im Verborgenen bleibt. Ihre Videos werden schließlich auch in Deutschland vertrieben. Eigentlich fehlen einem fast die Worte...!

L.G. Fire

[almhinds]

can someone clarify - when is it ok to perform someone elses choreography?

if you learn it at a workshop and they give permission (usually requesting credit) then surely it is ok,

what if you buy a dvd that teaches a choreography, are you ok performing it?

what if you see a choreography you really like on youtube, can you learn it and perform it if you give credit?

it seems to be a bit of a grey area, i'd love to know what people think

[pharaon]

Hi there,

It depends solely on the choreographer themselves as to how they would like to be credited. Some would expect a simple credit and some, a permission to seek.

However, visual motions like instructional dvds are mainly purely home used, still if you would love performing to the artiste's choreography. Permission is advisable as other rights are expressly resevered by the copyright owner, likewise for youtube. Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Dan

[MariaAya]

a) Choreo by X (when the dance is almost 100% the same)

b) Based on the choreo of X (when I get the general plan and put other things inside also)

c) Inspired by X (when the movements but not the choreo is inspired by X teacher/dancer)

I keep it with proud that I have studied with such great teachers and want to share it.

BTW dear Beata your dance was a visual poem over the music !!

Hope one day to study with both fo you also.

Maria Aya, Greece

[1AmiraCle1]

Did she learn the choreo from Beata directly and did not credit her, or did she learn it just from a video?

If it is copy from video without permission, then the problem is very widespread. DVDs are the most frequented school aids for teachers training in the biggest belly dance school in my location ...

[cihangirberlin]

Hello Beata & Horacio,

It's a good idea to make it public! As you know you are not the only victims of copyright infringement.

Best wishes,

Cihangir

[JuengerFranziska]

Beata tanzt es mit Gefühl,während diese Russin alles auf Sex setzt... sie lebt keine geschichte sondern gestohlenen Ruhm....

[danzajohanna]

I can't believe it... I learned that Belly Dance and Oriental Dance express the soul of the dancer... what meaning can it have to copy the others feelings and motions?

[dinavienna]

MAKING IT PUBLIC IS A GREAT IDEA.

I would put the name of the festival and dancer, if you know them, in the title

something like

"x in x festival COPIES Beata Cifuentes"

The more shame the better in my opinion. Maybe they then refrain from doing so! And every fan of every dancer checks youtube for them. So this dancer's fans will see who their idol actually is ;-)

[rinostylz]

creativity characterizes the true artist...

[alittlebitofperil]

How do you deal with this? TOTAL blatant copying here - as an artist, I would not want to copy someone elses work (dance or painting - i do both), i don't see the point! then its not your work, its someone elses! not to mention someone elses hard work!

[BeataHoracio]

part of dealing with it is making it public. hopefully this will raise the awareness for this subject in the dance community!

happy dancing to all ARTISTS!

Beata & Horacio

[alittlebitofperil]

Yes, lets hope so - I don't understand why someone would SO blatantly copy what you have done!! How can they do this and sleep at night!! ?

[dinavienna]

WOW how unethical.

Does it help to tell you - all the way through, even though she attempts to copy you - you look

ONE MILLION

times classier? :)