Are You Considering the Rick Warren & Bill Hybels Model for Your Church?

[spider43]

@dirtydawg62 Please do some research before judging me. There are multitudes of believers that were driven out of the church for the sake of feeding goats. Do the research my friend. The Wall Street journal even did an article about it. Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and the like are all dangerous men. They may have good intentions and I won't judge that but they are deceived and so are their followers.

[brianwelchisaphony]

The music at these churches is much better than that of traditional churches with boring sermons. I like a funny pastor and the message on the screen so i dont have to look through my bible for it. The downloaded sermons are better because they are up to date with the times. All churches should adapt this excellent new model of doing church.

[berean1129]

Sadly,this method of substituting the gospel for man made methodologies has taken over many churches in the community I live in. I can tell you from having been on the inside of their 'process' of growing what they call church, it is all business and resembles a corporation and not a Biblical organism. They mock the Godly and embrace the worldly. At these 'churches' you will not see a cross, Bibles, the music is worldly, and you hear stories with no Gospel.Yet,they assure you you are saved.

[snowleopard205]

It's bad enough when the people in the congregation don't study the Bible for themselves, but preachers getting used messages off the Internet indicates we're REALLY going down the drain! What next, are they going to bring back drive-in theaters where we can go on Sunday and see a filmed sermon without getting out of our cars?

[BeauJames59]

It's the birth of McChurch! Don't let the fast food restaurants save all that time and money! Now YOU can apply the Success Principles of Henry Ford and Ray Kroc to your church!

[turquoise770]

the new york times, time magazine, the obama administration--he's the poster boy for religion in all these groups. What! are you people waiting for him to be a contestant on dancing for the stars to realize that he is in the world's camp. the world is at enmity with the truth, and the truth is the shed blood of Jesus for salvation exclusively, unconditionally, ubiquitously. the world hates that, but they like rick warren

[OFxJeremy]

The Amos 8:11 verse is perfect for this.  When people are starving they will eat anything. Just like 70 a.d. in Jerusalem they ate anything they could get their hands on. Turn your TV on one of these godless channels and see what people are eating and believing is Christianity. A bunch of con artist that worship the god mammon. Purpose Driven Lies,Deceived on purpose. Be very wary of C.F.R. Rick and his P.E.A.C.E. plan that line up with the UN's millennial plan!!!

[KayodeFrancis]

I'm a new believer in Christ and have just recently been baptised. My sister gave me Rick Warren's book (The Purpose Drive Life) to help grow my faith. Since I've just found out that he is part of this whole Diaprax movement, should I consider his book to be un-godly?

[spider43]

Praise God! I'm so happy for you.

As to your question... NO offense to your sister. I'm sure she has good intentions but that book is very poorly written and is not biblical. I recently read a book written by David Wilkerson called "The New Covenant Unveiled". You can probably find it online on ebay. Do you have a healthy church to attend? Send me a message and I'll be willing to help you out. God bless you!

[KakkoiGuy1]

@KayodeFrancis I would run from this book quicker than Carl Lewis. I used to have the book and got rid of it. I have a sister that goes to a church that is doing the purpose driven life and I am about to talk to her pastor about Rick Warren and his heresies. Many people just don't know that his teachings are "another Gospel". My friend, if you really want to know God's purpose for you once you become a Christian read read the New Testament (Mat 28:18-20 for example). The Bible is our standard.

[filoIII]

@KayodeFrancis Lemme know if I can help as well.

[oneutawstreet]

Can you run a church like a corporation? Yes. God is the CEO and majority shareholder and expects a return on his investment just like any shareholder today does. As for downloading sermons, depends upon the pastor. Not all pastors have the gift of teaching and could use a little help. The WCA is providing sermons that someone originally put a lot of time and creativity into to express God's word. Jesus used parables (storeis) He didn't always just read straight from the Torah.

[spider43]

No, you cannot treat a church like a corporation. A corporation makes decisions based on statistics, board meeting votes, numbers, etc. The Church should be led by the Holy Spirit. A pastor that doesn't know how to teach will be enabled by God if he truly seeks Him. If not, maybe he's in the wrong calling?

[1Cor2two]

This is what the LORD Almighty says:"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD. They keep saying to those who despise me, ‘The LORD says: You will have peace.’And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’ But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD to see or to hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word?

[1Cor2two]

@oneutawstreet that was from Jeremiah 23:16-18

based on those verses a true shepherd/pastor should be standing in the council of the Lord to know what to speak to God's people and not just at some website searching for field tested sermons that get "results".

[spider43]

the #1 tool of the Enemy in this day is not just sin and immorality on the airwaves. It's this gospel that says you can live in your sins and still be saved. How many souls will Hybels and his followers be responsible for leading into a Christless Hell?

[clstern10]

Marxism? oh get real. Willow Creek at least leads people to Jesus. All you angry bible thumpers who love to tell *everyone else* they are going to hell for their sins need to remember the loving grace of Jesus Christ. You are exclusionary. At least Willow reaches out to people and does a lot of good work in the community.

[spider43]

It's another Jesus and another gospel. Look at what Revelation chapter 2 and 3 say about churches that are known for their good deeds and works. it means nothing! How did Jesus treat the young rich ruler? Jesus was not seeker sensitive.  What were the people of Malachi's time guilty of? have you ever studied that? They accepted lame sacrifices. Hybels and Warren and the like do the same thing by saying we should avoid preaching about the Cross and the Blood (yes, their books say that).

[mn8aol]

Dean Gotcher of authorityresearch com has written extensively on the hegelian-dialectic and effected "change" from a patriarchal paradigm to a heresiarchal paradigm. His research is all backed with scripture.

[oneutawstreet]

Both Hybels and Warren are fully aware of the standard that God holds leaders of His Church to and that they are accountable to Him. Both men know that they are blessed to have well-resourced churches and have tried to share that blessing with others.

At the end of the day, is the Gospel being preached? Nothing in this video suggests otherwise. So I leave you with the workds of Christ (Luke 9:50) "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

[spider43]

"At the end of the day, is the Gospel being preached? "

NO IT IS NOT. This video only addresses 1 point of why this movement is wrong. ( Pastors in these WCA churches don't even take the time to seek God on their own.)

Another reason Hybels and Warren are wrong is because they candy coat the gospel. They don't preach conviction. They refuse to speak about God being a Holy God who judges sin. When was the last time you heard a message on Hell?

[oneutawstreet]

Mark 1:15 "The time has come," he said."The Kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!".

The Gospel that Jesus came to preach was about God's power and authority being accessible in this world.

People who focus on the bad are the type looking for the minimal entrance requirements to get into Heaven to avoid Hell. That is not the Gospel Jesus came to preach.

And repentance is something consistently covered in my church.

[spider43]

Do you support the method of downloading a sermon simply because it's "field tested"?

Do you really think you can run a church like a corporation? Please do yourself a favor and research this Willow Creek Association.

[spider43]

Please click on the link on the video description. This will help you understand more about this dangerous movement.

[joseph82069]

I was in a seeker friendly church for ten years they were linked to willow creek. Alot of jokes,emotional stories,mood music,watery preaching that had nothing to do with the scriptures used. Full blown dramas as sermons, and a game show.

The salvation messages barely touched on sin and repentance. Very weak.

[petribo3]

The point is that are leaders are to be led and guided by the Holy Spirit on what to teach each week...not men and these silly sites...how easy is it for pastors not to seek the Lord and read their Bibles if they have these sites....this is excactly why we don't see the move of the Lord..because are leaders have abandoned the truth! I encourage everyone to pray for our leaders everywhere..that they will turn back to the TRUTH....the Word of God!!

[zarnescuemanuel]

I have a question for the person that made this video - Are you a pastor? Have you ever tried to growth a church? They just make public their methods, and if you don't like, don't use them. Don't throw with mud when you just don't like the people.

[spider43]

I'm praying for them actually. The video was made so that regular church goers can know what is happening to their church. Many people are clueless as to why their churches are getting so dead and lifeless. Many people email me thanking me for exposing this terrible thing that churches are doing. Pastors who do this should let their people know what they are doing. let the people decide if they want to stick with them or not. Have you no shame? to download a sermon rather than seek God?

[hermanogflores]

you should check out the video I recently uploaded.

[ZapruderJr]

In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to 'judge righteous judgment'

Is the point to get people in the doors of the church or is it to see people soundly saved?

See, the thing is, the point is not whether one likes or dislikes the methods, and it's not whether the methods are quote/unquote "effective" or not - The question is whether the methods are biblical or not.

[carpentersdaughter2]

I just want to encourage you to keep spreading the word on these false teachers. Paul did so and without shame, and came down very hard on those who twisted the gospel.

You will always get the tares after you for sharing the truth. Stay strong in the Lord, don't get weary. You have a friend in me.

God bless,

Linda

[joelwhitehouse]

Romans 2:1 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

[spider43]

explain what this verse means to you. How does it apply here? Are you saying we should toss discernment out the window?

[1Cor2two]

People tell me judge not lest ye be judged. I always tell them, twist not scripture lest ye be like satan." -Paul Washer

[joelwhitehouse]

I don't disagree with using scripture to expose sin, which this video does. Even Satan knows how to accuse -- but Christians are supposed to speak the truth in love -- and love covers over a multitude of sins.

[mn8aol]

Accounts of revivals in the 1700s, 1800s and 1900s reported towns with empty jails and no court cases to try after a revival. The evidence is clear on how to preach. Marxism has infiltrated and turned everything upside down, knowing that protecting immorality, society will no longer have a conscience and will be out of fear letting the state guide them. Love can't cover what's not exposed.

[LarryD22548]

So... what's your point. Looks like some great assets we can add to our ministry. Appears that you don't want to purchase things? Don't like to use the arts in church?

Stop wasting your time and reach someone with the love of Christ!

[spider43]

My friend, you are part of an apostate church and I want no part of that kind of ministry. I implore on Christ behalf, to please considers your ways and seek the Lord in prayer.

[KnowWhatIsTrue]

I went to willow creek for 5 years Thier "spiritual gifts" sessions include a substitution for the gift of prophesy. They change it to the gift of "creative communication" - I think that's in the book of First Confusions James 4:4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

[micaelbog]

In Romania, I heard about WC and Bill Hybels last month, and his book about leadership is very powerful. His vision and pasion has chalange me to be more dedicate to Jesus.

Bill, in many ways is a model for me!

[spider43]

Don't call yourself a Christian then, call yourself a Hybelite. Jesus CHRisT should be your model and christians need to stop pumping up these churches that have numbers. So many of you think numbers equals success. It's mind boggling.

[spider43]

Inspiration? Is that what we need? Why not just listen to Tony Robbins then? The pastor is responsible for preaching messages that will drive you to Jesus and many times that involves convicting sermons and repenting of sin. Why are doctrine and repentance such dirty words in the Modern Church?

[CatzEyes93]

Some would rather point their finger at others rather than accept ownership for thier own issues. Willow Creek is popular for the internal growth of the Christian community... not because they fool the people.

Go to a few Sundays before you condemn them.

[1Cor2two]

You are making a wrong assumption. Many who criticize this seeker sensitive have experienced being at a willow creek associated church and are grieved by it. When people find out that these pastors download their sermon outlines from someone else, they are pretty upset. How many of these WCA pastors admit to their congregation before preaching that they didn't really put the sermon together? Isn't that fooling the people?

[spider43]

I just saw your channel and it's no surprise you support Hybels. You support many things that are unbiblical and will lead you into sin.

[cellebleu]

willow is an amazing church and they do wonderful things for their community and the world. Bull Hybels is a very passionate, christ centered man who has Jesus in heart. Why do all you criticize so much? have you ever been to willow? just cuz it's big doesn't mean it's wrong, and yes we use technology cuz it's a useful tool. how dare you make such harsh remarks? don't be such hypocrites.

[spider43]

THe united way also does great things for the community. So does the Church of Latter Day saints. Good works doesn't justify your withholding Truth from people. Study your Word and test things like the Scriptures tell you too. Please prayerfully consider before being just defensive about your church and experiences there.

[reformedinchrist]

Seeker-friendly churches are making lazy Christians who don't have to truly read and study the Bible. These kinds of churches or buildings are sending many souls to hell because they refuse to teach the true message of Jesus Christ. It's all a numbers game with these mega churches...how many bodies can we pack into our stadium like building. This is pathetic. Teaching a Christless Gospel will get no one to heaven, but will lead many astray.

Great video.

[techno67799]

This really is a stupid debate. I've gone to Willow Creek ever since I was 2 years old. I was saved at Willow Creek and My entire life is there because I have a blast serving every few weeks. I've met Bill Hybels, he's a great guy. He has a heart for Jesus. Anyone who says otherwise is clearly being biased and needs to open their eyes. Willow Creek takes a modern approach to church that attracts the Y Generation and Generations before that. People are ignorant to that because it isn't "Boring".

[spider43]

I'm sure he's a great guy. So is Joel Osteen and other preachers like them. I wonder how many will think they are great when they wake up in Eternity separated from God? Do some research my friend. You are deceived. David Wilkerson has been blasting this cotton candy gospel preaching for years and Wilkerson is a true Man of God. Listen to times square church sermons and that is true Holy Ghost preaching!

[silentslumbers]

The purpose driven life is not the same as how "The Creek" once called "Stoney Creek Alliance Church" is run.

It is written in a booklet format by the Pastor of the church that you must sign if you want to stay as a member of the church (30 pages), and not with God.

The purpose driven life I am sure is not to change the laws of the bible, but to understand it more clearly.

cheers

[spider43]

The message translation which the PDL uses is way off on many verses. There are reviews online that document on the errors in it. Rich Warren also put his tail between his legs on the matter of Prop 8 in california. Shame on him. He fears man more than he fears God.

[genehesse]

this type of deception is never told to the congregations and they think their pastor has some kind of anointing from the "hard work" he has put into his sermon....what a complete sell out!

I used to think it was cool my pastor was so involved he even chose the music to go with his message when he was following Willow Creek heresy plagerist....one hurt believer

[spider43]

Amen Genehesse.

[chrissimkins]

Wow! You must feel pretty self-assured to have invested the time and effort in putting this video together.

It's almost as if someone offered you the first stone to throw at them and you said: "Great! In fact, I try and find some other people to throw them too". I'm sure I read something in the bible about that somewhere....

[spider43]

Not self assure but biblically assure that this gospel is not the TRUE Gospel. It's a gospel that will lead many to Hell.

[stressedmama]

skits are only an inkling of our ministry. All of this criticism seems to focus on that. It is only A tool we use to reach others for Jesus Christ! We have preaching ( sometimes without skits! oh my!), and we pray and we have the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us. We are not robots following some web site.We have spirit filled worship and wonderful missions to spread the Gospel.I could go on and on, but i gotta go. Traditional church is awesome and ours is too! I love both!

[spider43]

I suggest you study more on this subject. The rebuke is also towards churches running their ministry like the corporate world. WCA boasts of their "field tested sermons" and efforts towards appealing to the carnal man through use of perverse television reality shows, etc. Click my channel and look at the main video feature for more help on this subject.

[stressedmama]

I belong to a church affiliated with WCA. My church uses alot of media and drama, it is a TOOL, not our doctrine. the Bible is not compromised in any way at our church. We are a church for the unchurched. I have had many more opportunities to minister to people outside our church, more than my previous church. we are not trying to bring in the world, we're just speaking their language.

Kudos to "saved2"

[spider43]

i hope the drama and media teams invest as much time in prayer as they do practicing for the skits. Whatever happened to being filled with the Holy Ghost and preaching the Word of God?

[cellebleu]

have you ever been to willow? all they do is preach the word and teach the gospel! better than most churches I can say. as for the skits, all production is done by volunteers, people use they're gifts, whether it be music, acting, dancing, or speaking to convey the word in as many ways as possible. after all, God gave us spiritual gifts for the purpose of evangelism and worship. why are you so bitter and hurtful towards us? come to willow once, then make your judgement.

[spider43]

Do I need to? I can go to the website and see what it's about. When was the last time your pastor preached on Judgement, Hell, Holiness, or the Wrath of God?

[ucenic1]

What about if a pastor used a good sermon. Maybe used one of Spurgeon's? Once in a while, with thoughtful prayer and maybe a few changes? It seems like the most important part of this discussion is seeking men's desires through sermons/church service, rather than showing God and His word to men, and letting God work through that. However, it seems many comments are focusing on the plagiarism part. Sure, both are important, but IMO the content in more important than plagiarism/laziness per se.

[spider43]

The pastor should tell his people he's downloading his field tested sermons from the willow creek website. I wonder how many of his congregants would feel like you.

[hermanogflores]

problem is that pastors rather spend more time on the golf course than on their knees seeking God's heart for a word to the sheep.

[rofermex]

You should get a life....

[spider43]

I do have one and it's living for Jesus and warning those who are being deceived by the likes of Rick Warren and Bill Hybels, Osteen, etc.

[jewels1272]

Have you ever been to Willow Creek and heard Hybels talk about salvation. He's excellent at sharing Jesus! Deceiving, I think not! Maybe not fire and brimstone, but definately bibical and presents it in a loving way.

Jesus is in the heart of Bill Hybels. Maybe you should consider your judgement?

I hope your anger and judgment doesn't get the best of you. Get the speck out of your own eye.

[saved2]

Am I supposed to be moved by this? Convicted? I sat through 8 minutes of someone who uses a mouse poorly to show me what? That there are resources to help churches proclaim Christ's message? Poor your heart into what Jesus really came for.

[spider43]

You need to get your head out of the sand. Even the Wall Street Journal comvered this story. The Church is divided over this Apostasy and you just shrug your shoulders in ignorance.

[dallen2345]

you mean to just fill chairs. Don't fool your self thats all they do.

[SalesAutopsy]

Save precious hours & time is wrong because it comes from Willow?

ISN'T THAT WHAT A COMMENTARY DOES AS WELL?

And, don't many traditional churches get fed message structure by the denomination? How many Sunday Schools get handed literature to use every week, instead of letting their teachers teach?

Maybe the problem is pastoral integrity, or their lack of connection with the Holy Spirit to teach their flock?

Does God use other resources to teach his teachers? Of course.

[spider43]

Teaching is different because in that you are instructing people in doctrine. As for being the same as a commentary, the answer is "NO". The WCA encourages their members to download and use their top 10 survey tested sermons which includes full outline and it's all watered down to avoid confronting people with their sins. That's sinful and damaging to the Body of Christ.

[LShackley]

Are you actually surprised by this? Pastors have been borrowing other people's sermons long before Willow Creek, Saddleback, and the internet. Get off your high horse, and ESPECIALLY stop criticizing those who are trying to help burdened pastors, or bi-vocational pastors, by supplying useful resources. I agree that a borrowed sermon is second best, but a powerful message from God's Word can still feed sheep, even if it wasn't written by the one delivering it.

[spider43]

if you are a pastor and you are doing this, you need to repent. A pastor should be seeking God's face and praying to hear from Him. A commentary could be used to confirm what the Lord is speaking to you but a pastor should have a fresh revelation!

[goodbane]

the truth is we all love the same Lord, and statements like this just divide the Faith more than it already is. There may have been a mistake along the road for Willow. Scratch that: There must have been a mistake. No way can a church with the influence and size of Willow make the different they have without a mistake. But there have also been countless seekers drawn to Faith, and thousands of lives radically altered through Willow and the WCA.

[spider43]

I highly doubt that. If it has, it was only by God's grace because WCA does not deal with the sin issue in men's hearts. They preach this easy believism junk that doesn't deal with the flesh and as a result the hearers merely get their egos stroked. Sadly many don't truly experience the newness of life provided through dying to self and taking up the Cross of Jesus. There MUST be death to experience LIFE through the Spirit of God.

[stressedmama]

my church is affiliated w/WCA and sin, salvation and hell are frequent sermon topics. There is no compromise or skirting around the truth. Maybe some of these churches are doing that but not ours.

[kensingtonpalace]

that's disgusting, pastors are downloading their sermons!? What happened to getting on your face before God and asking Him what your congregation needs to hear! >:( All the money we pay you and this is how you 'work'?

[1Cor2two]

it was heartbreaking and upsetting for me to find out too. But at least it made me understand what was wrong in my former church. Why it was so dead, worldly, and why they were going this route of creating a "non-threatening atmosphere". If you are at one of these churches I'd consider leaving and letting the leadership know why. Go to "find a church" at the willowcreek website and see if your church is listed.

[toolmonn1]

Good Point!

[Jesusfreak7X77]

listen to the message of the sender. Contempory Christian music is closer to Gods word then most 300 yr old music ur lost in. G All good things are of God. God sees the heart not the bongo drum his child is beating.And yes many HYMNS you sing today are ol drinking songs redone. now thats of the world. Our God is an awsome God who reigns from heaven above , with wisdom, power and love.

[kensingtonpalace]

nah, our church sings mostly from the hymnbook, and those hymns are bursting w/ God's Word! be careful not to critisize things you are not familiar with. But yea, God sees the heart on not the drum (or the organ) :D

[Jesusfreak7X77]

you dudes beat all. Catholicism ruined more lives then any church. did your church raise $700.000 for Katrina relief&6 semis of clothing by years end? no. Build homes in ur parkinglot to flatbed down for housing? no. Go out onto the world and preach the gospel. not serve the god of $. repent or eternity in HELL is the future. lol while im rockin in heaven singing rap and other music to God himself. and guess who's on lead guitar? Won't suprise me at all if its Jesus

[Am3ridude]

yeah, we're all christians here let's try not to diss on catholicism so much. Its all the basic same thing. Its like ur racist with religion

[spider43]

Catholicism is heresy. Do you think Mary is a co-redeemer? That mary intercedes for you?

[Jitpring]

Also know it: The rock soundtrack of this video is conformity to the world. Rock music is fundamentally worldly. It's rhythms and instrumentation are aimed below the waist. Rock focuses on the lowest regions of the soul, and thus promotes slavery to sin. See 1 Jn. 2:15, James 4:4, Ro. 12:2, Jn 12:25, Col. 3:2, and 2 Pet. 1:4.

[spider43]

Also know the many hymns that legalists today hold to so dearly were once criticized for the same thing 60 years ago!

[1Cor2two]

are you talking about the slow song played on this slideshow?

[spider43]

I wonder if one of the reasons many pastors like to use Warren's and Hybels sermons is because they are addicted to porn and have no revelation from God themselves.

[LaneCh]

I've wondered that same exact thing.

[spider43]

at the revealnow dot com site the WCA is saying there mistake does not require repentance. Apparently they don't think misleading churches for over 15 years is a sin.

[LaneCh]

Willow Creek is pathetic.

[LaneCh]

It's a business, not a Church.

[denyyourself20]

yep, and it's so sad to see. I pray these people who are under these pragmatic leaders will have their eyes opened to the truth.

[Jitpring]

Please understand: WC, SC, and their ilk are the logical fruit of Protestantism itself. This is what private judgment produces, what anarchy produces. Endless fragmentation, endless customization, a thoroughly consumerized, self-centered "gospel." Swim the Tiber, people. Kill your rebellious spirit. Read Joseph Ratzinger's books, particularly Introduction to Christianity and Jesus of Nazareth.

[LaneCh]

It's the logical fruit of apostasy, and leaving one form of it to go to another is not the answer. If God said, "Salvation by Mass Participation" it would be different, but He says "Salvation by grace through faith".

[Jitpring]

"Salvation by grace through faith." Yes, exactly as the Catholic church teaches. Google my amazon list - From Atheism to the Logos - to help clear up all your misconceptions about Catholicism. Also go to catholic dot com. In Chist, J.

[LaneCh]

Is it not true that Roman Catholicism teaches a sinless Mary who you all now pray to?

[spider43]

That movie Luther that was released a few years ago gives a good account as to the errors of the Catholic Church. Praise God for the Reformation and men who contended for the Faith against all the corruption in Rome.

[whitevaliant]

Why shouldn't you use all available resources? I don't think Willow Creek are suggesting you copy their work verbatim. Rather that you can use their material as a model. There's no plagiarism here without the most grotesque distortion of the word.

[1Cor2two]

Isosceles1, What then does it mean when their website encourages it's members to use their "field tested sermons"? Does the WCA think their words and methods cause salvation? Have you read warren's PDC book?

[Isosceles1]

Thanks for the links! As a pastor of a really cool church, after all the time I spend on making sure we have good sound, lighting, Starbucks, drama, comfy chairs, and lighting lots and lots of candles I just don't have time to take a leak let alone prepare a sermon. I'm still looking for a place to download some hip prayers before they start catching on to my magnetic poetry.

[dallen2345]

you know you could try praying in the Holy spirit. God forbid that anymore.

[bboy3428]

Is it still plagarism if the ORIGINAL SOURCE offers the works to some of the lesser fortunate churches

[1Cor2two]

Read the definition given above -

Plagiarism: The act of passing off as one's own the ideas or writings of another.

THe answer is yes.

[liverecording1]

The pastor's job is not to eat for the sheep. Get a bible, go online for a sermon, listen to a teaching series, and feed yourself. Go to church to celebrate. If you're already saved, start helping someone else who isn't.

[spider43]

Do you mean the pastors job is not to feed the sheep? So you disagree with Jesus?

[kensingtonpalace]

the pastor's job is not to eat for the sheep, it's to FEED the sheep. "Simon, son of Jonah,do you love Me more than these?" He said to Him,"Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Feed My sheep." Each congregaion needs something diff. it is not healthy to just download general sermons that don't speak to your particular congregation. plus it's downright lazy.

[liverecording1]

Willow Creek offers great resources for someone in a teaching position that doesn't necessarily have the gift of teaching, helping them be more effective in spreading the "good news."

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:35 - not satisfied -

Take a look at Luke 6:27-36

Maybe our resources would be better spent encouraging each other instead of criticizing.

[spider43]

People are dying and famished out there. If a person isn't gifted in teaching then they shouldn't be teaching PERIOD.

Secondly, warren and his followers need to be warned. That's totally biblical. True love isn't all positive. Look at Nathan and David. What if Nathan chose to not criticize?

[kensingtonpalace]

if someone doesnt have the gift of teaching then they need to get out of the pulpit. plus i dont believe that's the kind of ppl willowcreek is focused on. It's mostly the mega church pastors who are involved in this. it makes their busy lives easier (but less blessed imo)

[liverecording1]

Maybe, just maybe, there has been some success to this.  Haven't all of us been teaching based on the teachings of Paul and Peter, among others. Wasn't the original gospel spread by word of mouth, one person repeating what another said?

[spider43]

#1, most preachers present it as if it were THEIR message. How many openly say "I downloaded this from willow creek's website or pastor's dot com.."

#2, the Minister needs to seek the face of God to know what God wants to speak to the Sheep. TO provide encouragement, correction, direction, etc. What kind of shepherd just downloads sermons every Sunday? based off surveys? i get disgusted just mentioning it.

[liverecording1]

well...we all use the teaching of paul...which have already been used. And I said it is not the pastor's job to "eat" for the sheep. He himself said feed my sheep. But he doesn't force-feed. There's a difference.

[1Cor2two]

So is Bill Hybels and Warren teachings equal to the Apostle Paul? Think of what you are saying.

[1Cor2two]

10/30/07 -Hybels admitted he was wrong with all his marketing consumer driven madness. Go to crosswalk dot com for more info. Praise God!

[liverecording1]

i wouldn't know how many openly say where they got their sermons, and i'll bet you don't know either. How about Job's friends who did criticize and were totally wrong? the point is not where the truth comes from ie. willow, a teaching tape, personal study time, a devo, it's that it is truth that is being taught.

[1Cor2two]

So you have NO problem with field tested sermons and sermons built on surveys and what the carnal man wants?

[hetgow]

What happened to pastors seeking God in prayer & digging in His word most of the week to prepare a sermon? One problem with warren sermons is that if a sermon is in error, then that error spreads like wild fire. What happend to rightly dividing God's word and studying to show yourself approved? Sad stuff.

[nohrag]

we attend to 4get that pastors r human like us & their position will never make them HOLY,bcuz that's the work of the holy spirit& i completly agre with spider43 especially if they say that this other pastor said that,we see that in the bible.plus not bcuz a person is in the position it means they'r anoited.

[GivememynamebackSeth]

Let the Spirit speak it. Go to a church with a "spirit led pastor" Not a "purpose driven puppet" oops i mean pastor

[Uberplanet]

Insta-Sermons for the "Power Point" Pastors is nothing new. The Pastor's "Circut" is much lick the Stand up comedy scene in Hollywood. Up & Coming Comic seem to follow the same Motto as the new "Seeker Friendly" Pastor...It's not wrong (To use plagiarized material)if it gets a "tested" response.

[spider43]

If proper credit is given to the real writer of the sermon, it's okay. But I'd not want to attend a church where the pastor is downloading sermons on a regular basis.

[rankim]

do you think that apostle paul would have ever told one single church that he would come for an "honorarium", plus be put up in a 5 star hotel and provided 1st class transportation...

who is the bigger fool... the fool, or the fool that follows the fool.

Lord Jesus have mercy on our souls.

[rankim]

its all got to be package just right... 3 steps, 7 ways, acronyms, synonyms, etc. etc. catch slogans phrases. C3, purpose driven, whatever. it all distracts from the great commision, sets the church up for persecution, and make money so that the marketeers in the world today can be happy.

[kensingtonpalace]

absolutely right, learning God's Word is not about using the right formula, it's listening to the Holy Spirit and doing what He says.

[rankim]

this has been going on way before rick warren, willow creek or the world wide web. i know plenty of guys that bought those 3 tape series form various ministries and memorized them to preach them. same thing. still sad.

[rogerarao]

Wow! this is truly an eye opener. God bless you too.

[kgambit]

Amen! Great video and good work. Thanks for putting this together.

[terriergal]

This is a very moving presentation coupled with the music. These Shepherds are so insecure they feel they have nothing worth saying, or that the Lord can't work through them with just the wonderful Holy Word and Spirit?

[spider43]

That song is the heart cry of many sheep who feel stuck in these seeker churches. We want to hear from God whatever he might say! This watered down gospel does not feed the sheep. On top of that, I question whether the pastor has been in prayer and in the Word if he's downloading sermons. I mean if he can't take the time to seek God's heart and what HE wants spoken to the church, what should I think?

[fsdinc]

Great video. Thank you

[SarahSLH]

Hi there. Good video. Whatever happened to spending time in prayer seeking God for His word? Why not just save 'precious' time by downloading a sermon instead!! There is indeed a famine for the word of the Lord, in these days.

[hermanogflores]

So this why church is so dead now? pastors are just copying sermons off that website?

[terriergal]

church is so dead now because they aren't preaching the Bible, they're preaching self-help, and works, even while denying that's what they're doing. And people will say "He doesn't preach self help or works, he says so himself that he can't stand self-help books and doesn't preach works!"