Manaka Unsui's Jinenkan Goton no Jutsu

[Lillymill]

0:34 HOW RUDE!

[royaldutch18]

respect master

[MrKookie79]

LOL kukishin AND kukishinden are TWO different things....

[BuffonSarutobi]

これで金取るのかよｗｗｗｗｗ

[shigakusha1336]

If X-kans would just be honest and say "This is Togakure Ryu. Its authenticity is highly dubious-- however, this is what it is." and then they DID NOT say "This is the only school of authentic ninjutsu in the world" It is that claim (being the last authentic school) that really makes them a target for critism -- as the X-kans certainly have the audacity to claim to be the last authentic source for ninjutsu when their ninjutsu isnt even real historical ninjutsu !

[shigakusha1336]

I happen to like Togakure Ryu--- despite what you wish to believe,I have studied it and I have never run into another X-kans member who claims to have learned more than what I was instructed in... .. I actually LIKE TOgakure RYu. However-- it is not "real ninjutsu". It is Really COol and really useful--- but is not actual ninjutsu by any stretch.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336

I thought you said you didn't know the Togakure Ryu curriculum?

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Did I say I didn't know it ? Perhaps a typo or a misreading-- I have what I believe to be the cirriculum (now, it is totally possible that the X-kan instructor who taught me lied about the completeness of it..however, allegedly, I have studied and trained all the taijutsu and kenjutsu of Togakure Ryu) Aside from the hand-to-hand stuff--- and some Ongyojutsu--- there was nothign else taught really .. Even the kuden was still hand-to-hand. No ninjutsu.

[shigakusha1336]

@shigakusha1336 while I think climbing trees, throwing poweder, pretending to be hurt and then throwing a sword into someone, swinging off the top of a wall to kick someone, using shuko, using my sageo, etc.etc.. -- all of that stuff is awesome and I love the material-- it is not ninjutsu. Is it useful in relation to ninjutsu--yes ! But it has been advirtised "the last and only real ninjutsu" -- but it is neither claim.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336 Why do you think all of those things aren't apart of Ninjutsu?

What is to stop it from being Ninjutsu? And who said they "knew" all the material contained in Bansenshukai?

Bansenshukai is totally independent from Takamatsu-den. The Ninjutsu in Takamatasu-den arts is a VERY little aspect... so I highly doubt most Takamatsu-den practitioners are HIGHLY skilled in Ninjutsu.

[Creationsofmyown]

@BlackShinobiShozoku

"why do you think all of those things aren't apart of Ninjutsu?"

why do you think they are?

"What is to stop it from being Ninjutsu?" HISTORY.

"Bansenshukai is totally independent from Takamatsu-den." then why is most of takamatsu-den's actual ninjutsu from the ban?

"The Ninjutsu in Takamatasu-den arts is a VERY little aspect... so I highly doubt most Takamatsu-den practitioners are HIGHLY skilled in Ninjutsu"

doesn't stop them advertising it. WHICH IS THE PROBLEM,

[fardisghomeshi]

@Creationsofmyown wow ur still flaping ur yaps.

[harleyqslovechild88]

@Creationsofmyown "The Ninjutsu in Takamatasu-den arts is a VERY little aspect... so I highly doubt most Takamatsu-den practitioners are HIGHLY skilled in Ninjutsu"

doesn't stop them advertising it. WHICH IS THE PROBLEM,

me: i actually agree with you

[Creationsofmyown]

@BlackShinobiShozoku

so the question really is, will you still tell people that these people support togakure ryu when it is not in any of their books??

did you want me to show you what the kukishinden zensho says about takamatsu???

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Creationsofmyown

yeah

[Creationsofmyown]

@BlackShinobiShozoku

my friend Torashin shared this with me:

因みに、澄水が九鬼隆治閣下宛に送った書簡によると、彼は『本体­九鬼神流澄水派』を唱えることを申し述べ、隆治にその了解を求め­ている。

これは、講道館柔道が全国的に普及し、九鬼本来の古道的体術では­立ちうち出来かねることを認め、拳当・唐手術（今日の空手道）を­加味した九鬼神流柔体術を『九体鬼神道流澄水派』として、世に広­める意図によるもの であった。（昭和２５・５・１５は高松書簡）

his translation.

"In a letter from Takamatsu Chōsui to general Kuki Takahara, it is written that Takamatsu proposed to formulate a new school and called his branch Hontai Kukishin-ryū Chōsui-ha. He was asking permission to start his own branch CONT

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Creationsofmyown ok your point?

[Creationsofmyown]

@B continued

branch for various reasons. One of the main reasons was that Kodokan was prevailing nationwide and Chōsui admitted that it was difficult to compete with them using the old kobudō system, which was the case with Kukishin-ryū. Chōsui said that he added karate tōdejutsu (now known as karate) to Kukishin-ryū jūjutsu. Chōsui was thinking of calling it Hontai Kukishin-ryū Chōsui-ha and making it very popular to the public. Shōwa 25 May 15 (Circa 1950)

[Creationsofmyown]

@BlackShinobiShozoku

my point is, that why would takamatsu tell tanemura and hatsumi that he knew kukishin ryu ninpo,

takamatsu also LEFT the kukishin ryu after they refused him a branch,

i can take some embarassing quotes from the kwoon interview with zoughari if you would like?

the ones that say the entire collection is written by takamatsu... or that they don't have documents... or that hatsumi isn't sure if its historical.... ( i LOVE that one personally) he must have no proof.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Creationsofmyown But I don't see where he didn't learn Kukishin ryu, just where he added. Kind of what happened to my own art that I am in. Passed the lineage...but added more onto it.

[Creationsofmyown]

@BlackShinobiShozoku

"But I don't see where he didn't learn Kukishin ryu,"

nobody said he didn't, EXCEPT that nobody taught him any ninjutsu there, and yet, he told tanemura and hatsumi it was KUKISHIN NINPO.... WHY??"

" just where he added. Kind of what happened to my own art that I am in. Passed the lineage...but added more onto it."

uh, that doesn't make them part of the ryu.

unless it has a SLACK ASSED curriculum....

like say,,, the bujinkan?

why do you think kuki wouldn't buy it?

[fardisghomeshi]

@shigakusha1336 all the techniques make up the ninjutsu system of combat. ninja wasn't only an intelligent gatherer but he was also highly skilled in combat.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336

To my knowledge there is even things that a lot of "X-kan" teachers don't know. Togakure consist mostly of non "fighting" techniques, and is what most considered "Ninjutsu". I cannot speak too much on this as I am not a X-kan member, but there is public things and there are private things. Most of what is seen publicly is not "Ninjutsu."

Most teachers who do know the Ninjutsu aspects of Togakure ryu, probably don't teach it really. Because they don't see the point in it.

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku My personal "beef' with X-kans is being told that they contained historical ninjutsu-- and that the X-kans teachers "knew all the material contain in densho like Bansenshukai" But-- when tested-- they failed. For example, Genbukan has no idea how "kurorokagi" actually works. When 4th Dan and above instructors are teaching FALSE information to the students --- THAT is my issue !

[ninjawarrior41]

hey great vid. i enjoyed the blowing of the metsubishi, and your sui-ren section of the vid. keep up the good work, and i hope to see some kayakujutsu in your future videos. GOD bless, and train hard. (bow)

[bizitch71717]

LARPjutsu

[hhsengo]

@bizitch71717

It's called tradition, stop trollin'

[Creationsofmyown]

@hhsengo

hey, just thought u ought to know,

the outfit at :07 is an invention of the ninja craze (1950s-70s)

and then when he proceeded to demonstrate many things that would ATTRACT ATTENTION, instead of dissuade attention... then yes, we can safely say that he is pretending at ninja ( ninja-gokko) which is PRECISELY what the Bugei ryuha daijiten( THE budo encyclopedia) had to say about takamatsu's school when he was interviewed about it.

there is also the FACT that ninjutsu isnt MA/budo

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Creationsofmyown The outfit actually looks like regular traditional clothing to me.

Along with a tenugui wrapped around his head?  How was this invented by ninja craze? It was worn by japanese all the time.

[shigakusha1336]

@Creationsofmyown Exactly. Togakure Ryu is a joke. Everytime it is investigated, it comes up lacking. Nishina Daisuke never existed (and his story is dismissed by legit researchers as being simply a fairytale) .. Togakure Ryu's 'ninjutsu curriculum" does not match any known-and-validated ninjutsu cirriculum.. etc.etc.. Its a collection of Kuki material which has been altered to look like "ninja"... but this is definatly COMBAT-- which Ninjutsu definately is not.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336

Actually there are legit Japanese researchers that support Togakure ryu.

And really now?

So tell me... What do you know about the Togakure Ryu's curriculum. Please explain to me what it contains.

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku You do understand that hundreds of people in the Bujinkan and Genbukan have been taught Togakure Ryu-- right ? And no-- there is no historical evidence for Togakure Ryu. Please list these supposed "legit Japanese researchers" and what proof they managed to find--despite that numerous professional historians have been trying to find a single shred of evidence of Togakure Ryu for the last 20 years. Also--Amatsutatara was made up by Takamatsu. Kuki family says so.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336 Alright here is a list of some.

Yumio Nawa

Shimizu Chozo

Koyama Ryutaro

Soya Shinji

Tobe Shinjuru

Okuse Hiesichiro

And if you want the proof they have found, please go read their articles. (You may have to learn Japanese though). Now list to me these "Numerous professionals" you are referring too.

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Yea, all of those authors have been found to not provide any evidence-- try again. Perhaps you would like to actually site pre-1970s books ? Or better yet-- -why don't you just end this debate and prove Toda Masamitsu ever existed.

And I can read Japanese-- it is how I proved that Nishina Daisuke never appears in the Genpei Seisuiki, like the X-kans have been claiming--- like the authors you listed have been claiming. There is no proof.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336

Actually I will cite densho from Koshu Ryu. Which has verified Shimizu Chozo's claims in his Togakure No Ninja book.

lol WHICH Bujinkan have been claiming Nishina Daisuke was in Genpei Seisuiki? Where did you hear this?

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Every person BUT you. Even some of the "authors" you list it have cited it as their alleged source.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336

Can you post this?

I haven't seen any of them make this claim. And I'm friends with some pretty intelligible Bujinkan Members.

I am not a Bujinkan Member myself or apart of Takamatsu-den arts.

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Fact is this : Amatsutatara was crafted in1948. X-kans teach it is ancient. Togakure Ryu Ryu is suppose to have come from Toda Masamitsu-- but he never existed. Lots of claims-- not evidence for any of them. Matter of fact, your actually in the negative, considering you have no evidence of Togakure Ryu and Amatsutatara is a 1948 fabrication.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336 Why are you talking about Amatsutatara.

Even if you're correct... it really means nothing. Katori Shinto Ryu claims the creator of their system is 102 years old. Even though it has been historically verified that he lived to be around 40years old.

Koryu don't really have the most "Accurate" of history. And it's common for things to be exaggerated.

[Ronin10467]

@shigakusha1336 theres not alot of claims for alot of shit its ninja u should join anthony cummins crusade ninja butt humping reasearch team

[shigakusha1336]

@BlackShinobiShozoku By the way---some of the "researchers" you listed are actually fiction novelists--- not historians. You should really check your facts before you post.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336

Which ones are fiction novelist and not historians?

[BuffonSarutobi]

@BlackShinobiShozoku

Yumio Nawa

Shimizu Chozo

Koyama Ryutaro

Soya Shinji

Tobe Shinjuru

Okuse Hiesichiro

I checked Okuse and Tobe, their books didn't mention Togakure.

Koyama's source was Takamatsu.watch?v=fTtxiCkLv_s

There was no Ninja book in Soya Shinji collection in Noda city library where Soya was living.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@shigakusha1336 You do realize that actually Togakure ryu really isn't taught much... and most of the BJK and Genbukan know VERY little Togakure ryu.

Also you didn't answer my question... how much do you know about Togakure Ryu curriculum? Since you want to make silly claims about it.

[Ronin10467]

@shigakusha1336 anthony cummins ninja butt research team sign up lol

[shigakusha1336]

@Ronin10467 Im not on his team actually--- but, are you pissed that he is exposing the bullshit you call "ninjutsu" as the fraud it really is ?

[Ronin10467]

@shigakusha1336 It's been secret for thousands of years it has holes in it besides you think these japanese are gonna reveal everything to u japanese reasearching cockriders?

[shigakusha1336]

@Ronin10467 These Japanese--- are you implying that I am not Japanese? Are you implying that-- because YOU are an anglo-saxons protestant that I must be one as well ? Sorry buddy-- try again.

[Dooshtv]

@Creationsofmyown Lol and then thay had to change what they said in the next edition cause they were proven wrong....i own both copies

[Creationsofmyown]

@Dooshtv

"Lol and then thay had to change what they said in the next edition cause they were proven wrong"

no, they had to change what they said because printing things you cannot prove is illegal, its called libel, look it up... the BRD took the higher road and let the fact that takamatsu gave them more than 1 fake lineage go...

BTW, WHERE is this PROOF? it IS what i have been askin of u 4 weeks

"....i own both copies"

then you can see the differences between the claims made BY TAKAMATSU...

[Dooshtv]

@Creationsofmyown Asking me for 4 weeks? you got the wrong guy.....and if you dont know what it says in the bugei ryuha daijiten maybe you should be posting what you read on message boards....god knows ive been fair with all this