Affirmative Action Debate: Closing Remarks (13 of 14)

[freein2339]

What planet is Joseph Phillips on....???

[willia3r]

Joseph Philips is still a moron. Good lord, he is such a handkerchief head...

[christo930]

I don't know why anyone thinks that Asians need AA. Asians carry the stereotype of being hard working and intelligent, more so than any other race except Jews who also bear that stereotype. Personally, I would like it if people thought of white males as being the smartest and hardest working.

[chefawkes]

Joseph is embarrassing me as a black man.

[freein2339]

@chefawkes I agree...I had to school his punk ass on his own website....

[JayJ004]

@carlousmagnus no... he makes blacks look like we are belittled because of affirmative action... no i actually didn't because thats why i say "little" because its not much. In society jobs and colleges there are lest then 12 percent and whites maintained 85 percent on avg. They make it seem that if your black, your guaranteed a job weather your qualified or not, which is not true.

[sue01234567890]

Thumbs up if you laughed during Joseph C. Phillips closing statement.

[MetaSensuality1983]

He just breaks everyone's arguments down. He sure made Tim Wise look like he didn't know what he was talking about

[daming209]

stop with yo ad hominem fallacy tim wise. They're not calling you racist but why do you call charles murray and their team racist. Charles murray is not part of the debate and why are you attacking the Manhattan institute when you're suppose to only debate AA. They're a least trying to be moderate about this issue but take the far left position by exaggerating the extent of white privilege or minority privilege in America.

[daming209]

white privilege does still exist but these are the minor things that affect minorities today. Racism is the lowest on their most concern lists according to Shelby Steele. AA will produce more black dependency. AA disadvantages the poor white folks and it only benefits the rich minorities. There's minority privilege because of white guilt from people like you. IF racism strongly exist today, then why did many people vote for Obama because of his race,

[daming209]

fitting discrimation with another discrimination won't solve anything. This will cause more white supremacy and black dependency. discrimination still exists but it has decreased. Five years after civil rights of 1964, the welfare program, AA, and racial quota hampered black progress. Five years prior to the Civil rights act of 196 showed great progress than years after.

[daming209]

racism does exist in America but that's the least concerns among minorities. Shelby steele writes how racism is on the lowest of their most concern list. Discrimination does exist but this is not the biggest problems african Americans are facing. It's on the bottom of the most concern list. So this shows how racism has decrease Tim wise so F you!! During the 2008 presidental electon, more people were morely likely to vote for obama because he's black. SO FUCK YOU!!!

[daming209]

the limited application of the civil rights law- Many of the civil rights law had to do more with private property rather than race relations. The earlier civil rights acts eliminated discrimination within the public sector and anything receiving funds from the federal gov. The later bills were the one that started to invade private property rights.

[daming209]

proponents of AA will fuel more discrimination so fuck up TIM WISE!!!! You are trying to fix another social injustice with another social injustice so thus causing more racial discrimination. Second about the individual rights quotes, this is talking about private property not public land. The problem with segregation was because it was public land you fucken retard. Thomas sowell writes that minorities never support racial quotas or AA. Tim wise does not represent minorities.

[daming209]

people who major in ethic studies or people who teach ethnics studies are least likely to have diverse experiences in colleges compared to Math majors, business majors. Ethnic studies majors are more likely to teach the other people negatively

[MrRingmaster]

Dear Mr. Philips, uttering your point loudly hardly give s it merit.

[islandmuffin]

Does any individual white student deserve being discriminated against because other whites do well?

What about the white children of coal miners, could they get into a good university with a GPA as low as Obamas?

[islandmuffin]

Diversity is neither a strength nor a weakness. It is neutral. Japan is wealthy without diversity. Multiculturalism is used to justify reverse racism. What matters to a nation is the number of skilled and educated residents

[x71u9]

Tim Wise thinks he is smarter than he is.

[muhcarl]

Tim Wise is the shit! Joseph is a joke!

[ajnatheiconoclast]

Tim Wise GETS IT!! HE'S THE MAN!!!

[islandmuffin]

Wise is focused on making personal attacks to demonize the opponent.

[Raybanmonster]

Very good debate indeed for both sides

[MrRingmaster]

Joseph C. Philips doesn't belong on the panel. He is intellectually lacking and beneath his colleagues.

[amenra13]

@MrRingmaster - Joseph Phillips is embarrassing to both blacks and whites. I stand corrected, he is embarrassing for humanity.

[chubbatheBOSS]

@amenra13 LOL!!!!!

[islandmuffin]

Likewise, Obamas mediocre grades at Occidental College (< 3.3) did not merit admission into Colombia (< 3.3), where his mediocre grades should have precluded admittance to Harvard Law School, where he was artificially thrust to the lead the Harvard Law Review, where he became the first leader NOT to write editorial pieces.

[redblackrev]

@MrRingmaster

What an embarrassment that closing argument was. 

[phooey108]

@MrRingmaster

I agree, he clearly is not a scholar. They couldnt get Thomas Sewell or what?

[JayJ004]

@MrRingmaster I kinda disagree, he is a smart man, he sees that some blacks make excuses in the economy. But thats all he is saying, and he don't want to play the stereotype of "welfare", and "affirmative action", but the opposing already demolished his argument by stating that whites are privileged, and they benefited from that, so why can't blacks benefit from these little helping hands.

[christo930]

@MrRingmaster Why are you attacking this man? I agree that he was a little too emotional, but he certainly wasn't "beneath" the other panelists. Tim Wise was the worst of panel. Tim Wise is clearly over emotional, making appeals to emotion and did a poor job of advocating his position. I am not a fan of AA, but even if I was, I think he did the most poorly while McWhorter was the best. The 2 women were also outstanding, even though I disagree with their position.

[Sivels]

@MrRingmaster ad hom, present an argument, or maybe your iq is too low to process arguments?

[woofantango123]

Reagan was right, they're wrong. OWNED

[thesparitan]

lol

time wise is the man

[ultradnawargreymon]

Affirmative action fosters prejudiced.

[Ndugga]

Well America was founded on Affirmative Action for whites. Did that also foster prejudice?

[MaxSachs]

"Did that also foster prejudice?"

Yes it did, many years later from non-Whites whom have to compete with them after they (Whites) have received Affirmative Action priviledges for hundreds of years prior and to the present.

[Ndugga]

ok. i kan c that logic to a certain degree. but is that a reason to not support AA policies?

[MaxSachs]

I am somewhat indifferent to the AA cause, I acknowledge that it's primary benefactors have been White Women and Non-White Women...everyone else faces discrimination. With regards to the considerable boost women have received, it is because of the spirit and not the rule of AA I am against. They seem to get all the cushy jobs while Men are relegated practically by rule the most dangerous and back breaking work, all the while being told how terrible we are at keeping

[MaxSachs]

Women out of the job market....as if ordinary Men had anything to do with those lies. It's ludicrous.

[Ndugga]

haha you kno a little more than nothing

[MaxSachs]

(yawn) Anything else?

[Ndugga]

haha u not yawning if u have to write it out. no but on the real i agree with you men are generally relegated to most job opportunities but specifically the ones with the most power and influence. I think white males face a lot of discrimination in many areas especially prison.

[MaxSachs]

Your statement does not agree with me at all, I said: "Men are relegated practically by rule the most dangerous and back-breaking work, all the while being told how terrible we areat keeping Women out of the job market"

And you said: "Men are generally relegated to most job opportunities but specifically the ones with the most power and influence".

These two statements are very different.

[Ndugga]

what is the method of the relegation to the most dangerous and back-breaking work?

our statements are very different but they do not neccessarily contradict.

[MaxSachs]

I'm not going a step further until you detail how our statements agree, because they don't. As the author of the statement I say you do not agree with me, your statement is going other places...I said "most dangerous and back-breaking work" and you said "MOST job opportunities but specifically those with most power and influence", note: those with power and influence are not involved in dangerous or back-breaking work, are you serious?

[MaxSachs]

First you say you agree (to something I didn't assert in the first place) then you say our statements do not necessarily contradictory. We will finish this up quickly, I don't get into the habit of running around in circles with youtubers, chop chop.

[Ndugga]

i dont c how our views have to contradict. Isnt it possible for men to be in the "most dangerous and back-breaking work" and also have most of the significant positions of power?

[MaxSachs]

It depends how you look at it, in post-industrial societies like Western society the most significant positions of power don't involve dangerous and back-breaking work with regards to human safety, there are 'essential' services like garbage disposal, heating, electricity, construction and that sort but legislation has rendered most of those services politically-nuetered. You see where I'm going with this?

[MaxSachs]

While a few elite Men dominate powerful positions at top, scores of ordinary Men dominate 'essential' and dangerous positions..at the bottom. The feminist could push to involve women in those lines of work in equality alongside Men b/c well "somone" has to do it, but they don't. They only push for the cleaner, less risky positions like healthcare, education, and government. They push for equal pay for equal work, only on their terms...actual dynamics indicate they receive = pay, for less work.

[Ndugga]

Well a few elite Men dominate powerful positions at the top precisely because there are only a few powerful positions at the top. Which major feminist can you name that does not push for women to work wherever they are capable?

[MaxSachs]

First you say Men are generally relegated to powerful and influential positions at the top, then you concede that only a few elite Men dominate those positions...b/c there are few positions available. I've yet to see someone else dance around the defence of their own assertions as you. You do not acknowledge the biased hiring practices inherent to western society, the convoluted notions of justice and equality.

[Ndugga]

men fill practically all the most powerful positions. They are few of these positions, and they have some women in them but predominantly men. Can you name a feminist that is opposed to women working in construction?

[MaxSachs]

"wherever they are capable"? They are just as capable as Men by their own testimony remember, why is it then that we don't see them more involved in construction, waste disposal, power generation, resource extraction and the like hrmm? AA wants fairness and equality yet take supremacist feminist ideology to be taken seriously, not only on the presumption that women are just as capable as Men, which they have yet to prove, but that women are inherently superior.

[MaxSachs]

They have used legitimate causes for social equity such removing biased hiring practices in favour of hiring white Men, to further their goals of perpetual priviledge. Look how the National Organization of Women look at the depression in America, the construction industry dominated by Men is being crushed yet they want more govt job creation, for Women. That kind of thinking is intolerable, they're tasted the fruit but not had to grow the tree. It must end. That's it, good day.

[daizee106]

good comment

[BillBisco]

Regarding Time:I don't think the other side has all said that affirmative action was once okay. Regardless though, the situation has changed, and racism while still existent is only a shell of its former self and is continually lessening. As such, the defense for preferences on race is minimal at best

[PsychoticusRex]

I can't believe they're still using the "Lets all appreciate our differences" argument to defend Affirmative Action. Tim Wise has nailed this previously, it's a "tar baby".

[psionicman]

best part of this is kimberle's reactions to tim's remarks

[roshane2]

Joseph is so illiterate. I love him. <3.

[carryday]

joe is an idiot

[iArsalan]

What I find saddest of all is that everyone has bought into this idea that they need a "job". As if civilization didn't exist before people had jobs. The Egyptians built the Pyramids and none of them had "jobs". They all had profession in which they were highly skilled made their place in society. Jobs are the result of the disastrous industrial revolution.

Everyone spends their lives trying not to have a job to go to but then fights to get a job. The solution to everyone's problem isn't JOBS.

[PrezAlex]

And none of those Egyptians were slaves. Yep.

[iArsalan]

Precisely. The Nile floods for a third of the year leaving an entire population free and it was during this season that temples and Pyramids were built by the common person as a form of religious devotion. They had a social order in which people lived happy fulfilled lives without homelessness, racism, ect. They certainly had their highs and lows but they pulled it off for over 5 millennia, no other civilization, save the Nubians, can boast such a feat.

[qolspony]

I didn't want to say this, and I know it is not "politically correct", but a lot of the jobs that women are holding, black males could be doing it. I'm not talking about the office jobs. I'm talking about the hands on jobs like bus/truck driving and more physically intensive jobs. When women started to taking these jobs, this put us at a big disadvantaged. Your response might be, I got to pay the bills and feed my family. But what you don't understand, you can't have a family without a man. bye

[dustcurrington]

Tim Wise is a totalitarian Marxist radical. He feels his personal delusions should be forced upon society by law, regardless of the falsity of his premises. Equality will never be achieved in a meritocratic society, because equality does not exist, even within racial groups. He is practically frothing at the mouth with hatred for successful Western societies and their cultures. Don't let his rhetoric of "fairness" fool you.

[iArsalan]

Joseph Phillips hasn't made since throughout this debate. Part of me asked when he was introduced, why is he even on this panel. Since when has being an actor made you a scholar or representative of any sort?

[qolspony]

Continued... There was no quota for how many minority men could be hired. That's the loop hole. So choosing the black woman meant that he didn't have to choose a black man for the same position. Now many places hire Hispanics instead of Blacks, because their is no quota on how many blacks they hire. That is the program that many of our people are supporting.

[keilyngodson26]

That is an interesting idea, qolpony. Being that the Willie Lynch doctrine is still in effect, How would the maginalization of the Black Woman affect the Black race as a whole? Black woman would no longer have their men by the proverbial educational "collar." The black womans role on the palntation would be forced to changed as a result of whitey kicking her out of his house. Maybe then she would return to raising her children to be strong, spiritual Africans. I agree also that hispanics.....

[becca9786]

Joseph Phillips makes absolutely no sense in his closing remarks.. Completely irrelevant.

[qolspony]

Before Affirmative Action over 95 percent of Black Males were employed. Now less than half of black males are employment. You tell me if Affirmative Action is working? Like I said in a previous post, Both White and Black Women have a lot to appreciate. I'm not against their success, but if you think that it is better when more women are working than men, than I think you all have a big problem. That is the direction that Affirmative Action is taking us.

[iArsalan]

95% employment? Yea it was called slavery. I'm not in favor of Affirmative Action, I feel it's a band-aid on a gaping wound. However, I don't think things would be better now without it. Especially since those against it advocate no alternative solution. The problem is the same with everything in this country, the general structure is flawed and insolvent. Sooner or later we're going to have to tear up the foundation and rebuild or the building will collapse... forcing us to rebuild anyway.

[qolspony]

It's not that I'm against it, but it is a program for the middle class. It has had very little effect for individuals who could have benefited from it. Should it be eliminated? NO! But it sure does need to change. Again. Ever since this program has been enacted, black males have fair worse. This has nothing to do with guisher11 sharecropping comment. He/she can't see how much damage this program has done to black males. Black males use to be able to take care their families.

[guisher11]

Qolspony -- Dude 95% of Black males were employed prior to affirmative action as sharecroppers -- STFU!~

[qolspony]

Black males use to be able to take care their families, now we must watch our women go to work. If you think this is right, than you are incorrect. What is a man's worth if he can't work? And if sharecropping paid the bills and allowed him to be in command of his family, than that is a good thing. But of course, there were many other occupations besides sharecropping. Anyway, if you are a female, than I can understand your position on this topic. Black females found independence through it.

[iArsalan]

Forced integration has had more to do with the destruction of the Black Community than AA every did. In fact AA has little if any effect on Africans in America. It's primary beneficiary has always been White Women.

The problems plaguing Africans in America have always been there. They've intensified because our country is in severe decline. And issues like AA are distracting us all from this very important reality.

"I fear I have integrated my people into a burning house." -Martin Luther King

[qolspony]

"Forced integration has had more to do with the destruction of the Black Community than AA every did."

I agree.

"In fact AA has little if any effect on Africans in America."

I disagree. Affirmative Action is a "set aside" program for both women and minorities, and since black women fall under both categories, this gave them an advantage. This unfortunately made black males obsolete. For instance, and employer must hire a certain amount of minorities and women. Continue...

[qolspony]

There was no quota for how many minority men could be hired. That's the loop hole. So choosing the black woman meant that he didn't have to choose a black man for the same position. Now many places hire Hispanics instead of Blacks, because their is no quota on how many blacks they hire. That is the program that many of our people are supporting.

[angelbeta]

Thank you for posting this. I had this on my ipod and ran into this by chance. I wasn't even looking for it! Thank you.