If we (Muslim)tell u again and again about Islam u will never satisfied with our proof and statement till Qiamah.U will see someday Islam will dominate the world and when u die u will know that Allah is the only God
@KiSaMe8877 ...Dominate the world doesn't mean Islam is the truth . Islam dominate the world with terror,and muslims can easily increase their number because they practise poligamy or exodus from violence Arab country in middle east (entering the west peaceful country)....ISLAM= satanic religion ....Kaabah= house of djin, satan , evil spirit.....hajar aswad the black stone= pagan stone that is worshipped in paganism ritual before Islam (in ancient paganism time before mohammed).
@KiSaMe8877 ...Dominate the world doesn't mean Islam as the truth . Islam dominate the world with terror,and muslims can easily increase their number because they practise poligamy or exodus from violence Arab country in middle east (entering the west peaceful country)....ISLAM= satanic religion ....Kaabah= house of djin, satan , evil spirit.....hajar aswad the black stone= pagan stone that is worshipped in paganism ritual before Islam (in ancient paganism time before mohammed).
Jews know better than refer to Allah as a “moon god”. Since the Jews understand the Semitic languages, they know better than to say, the God the Muslims Worship is a “moon god” unlike some Christian who care so ignorant to this fact.
If you believe quran is plagiarized from bible then i suggest you to read the book "200+ Ways the Quran Corrects the Bible:" from whom Prophet Muhammad Pbuh learnt bible without any Jewish presence or Christian presence in Makkah ?
Infact when first he met the Jews many years later after he received his first revelation Jews privately admitted that they recognized him as the true messenger of God but as they feared of losing power over the pagan only few of them accepted islam
apparently "baka" is a very popular term in semitic languages, since the arabs, israelites, and phoenicians (Bekaa Valley--where the temple of Baalbek stood) had their own Baka valleys.
The israelite house of God was in Jerusalem, or else the saudis need to honor God's promise to the Jews and cede the territory (if they are indeed submissive to God).
not surprising that mohammed would invent the myth of Abraham making the idol known as the kaaba (which probably derives its name from the ancient egyptian ideas of 2 souls, the ka & the ba). after all, mohammed had to yield to the pagans' desires to continue worshipping that stone, just as he claimed to have received the koran in a cave (caves were sacred to the pagan arabs). Somehow i don't see God appearing as Anubis to speak to Moses' Pharoah, & i don't believe mohammed purified anything.
@muslUnbounded You don't have to believe. Belief is subjective, but it makes you look like you would disagree with just anything when you make claims without proof.
@webdawah, well, the problem of knowing what happened in arabia is difficult because arabs didn't preserve their history, opening the door to invent whatever they wanted. Abraham had nothing to do with arabia. if he kicked a slave woman (Hagar) and her cruel son (Ishmael) out of his house and into that desert, there is no reason to visit arabia. in fact, it shows that he had no interest in arabia as a destination.
Mohammed's tribe going on pilgrimage is in the Quran.
They also went on Hajj to "...Taif where there was also a temple called Kaabah of Ellat, or Kaabah of the Sun. This Kaabah was more significant and much older than the Kaabah of Mecca. All Arabs, including the tribe of Quraish from which Mohammed came, venerated this Kaabah."
There's plenty of such historical and archaeological evidence for ancient Arabian cities like Qedar, Dedan and Teima, but apparently NONE for Mecca prior to the first century. Where is the ancient city? Where are the remnants of thousands of years of civilization there?
None because Mecca didn't exist prior to the first century. It was settled some time between the first century and Mohammed, perhaps by a bunch of pagan rock idol worshipers.
The ancient Bakka is Mecca, and there is ample evidence from the Bible, and the Qur'an. Archeological artifacts may not be found without digging under the mosque.
I would have put a link with the quote but last time you removed my post with a link. Copy & paste the quote into Google or type in Dr. Rafat Amari.
Where is YOUR historical & archaeological evidence that Mecca existed prior to the first century?
Failing that, whose claims of Abraham having anything to do with Mohammed's 7th century religion thousands of years later and 766 miles away are "ridiculous"?
Were lots of Kaabas in Mohammed's day and each had a black stone. Iranians just built another.
Rafat Amari is not a scholar he is just another christian apologist like you .
He even claimed bible is historically correct while ignoring the fact
1 . There is no historical evidence of Moses crossed the sea with 600000 men as bible described infact Archaeologists says its impossible BY ANY MEANS.
2.600000 men plus women and children as bible described that means nearly 2 million Hebrew slaved being kept in Egypt but it is impossible according to demography
* bible claimed there was a global flood at the time of Noah but its impossible according to all Archaeologists .
* Bible claimed first men on the earth lived 6000 years ago and Earth is only 6000 years old ha good fairy tales
But Archaeologists found stone which they claim is as older as 4.6 billion years .
Go sell your cheap mythological belief elsewhere instead of attacking other religions based on some assumptions/myth created by another Christian apologist liar
If my claims are ridiculous then why did the classical authors, who visited and wrote about western Arabia mention all the tribes who were living there, even the tiny ones, never once mention Mecca?
Where are the artifacts that demonstrate that this city preceded the first century? You've produced nothing. Try a search like - archaeology of Mecca - or - archaeological and historical record of Mecca.
What is artifacts found supposed to say? "Made in Mecca?" Your premise is illogical. Mecca was never always the name of the place, maybe if you are planning to be objective, you can find the answers you seek.
"What is artifacts found supposed to say? "Made in Mecca?""
Are you this challenged? Do the 1 million artifacts on display in Jerusalem say "made in Jerusalem"?
Artifacts are identified by THE PLACE from which they are recovered. Where are the ARTIFACTS recovered from in and around Mecca, that would demonstrate that it has been the center of Mohammed's religion since Abraham?
There AREN'T any that suggest life at all, prior to the first century.
I really do wonder what artifacts you are looking for? Prayer rugs or what? Islam does not have anything tangible as a representation of the religion. The practice of Islam is in the hearts and not artifacts.
Indeed all the REAL record shows is that the Kaaba was an Arabian pagan temple built some time between the first century and Mohammed, to house 360 rock idols, that Mohammed eventually threw out ...... except one.
But then veneration of meteorites is nothing new in the habits of mankind. There is plenty of historical and archaeological record to confirm that.
You answered your own question. Islam does not permit the worship of idols, nor the engraving of images or anything of that kind. How are you supposed to find artifacts?
Yet you don't hesitate to bow to & venerate a black stone.
[[[[[..... nor the engraving of images or anything of that kind. How are you supposed to find artifacts?]]]]
Because if Mecca had been the center of Islamic worship since Abraham, remnants of old city would exist. Stuff folks used in everyday life would be in evidence, like the million artifacts on display in Jeruslamem.
Mecca, nadda. Because it didn't exist prior to first century.
I don't know if you read the comments you post. Muslims do not venerate the black stone, it's significance is only historical and part of the story of the Ka'abah. There is no such thing as the mention of a stone, or inanimate object in our prayers or worship. Like I said earlier, it is forbidden.
If you have been anywhere close to the Ka'abah, you would know that there's no way for artifacts to be found. You would have to dig under the mosque to find anything if that would be allowed.
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
Any Muslim that denies VENERATION of the black stone, is not much of a Muslim since each Muslim must travel to it and march around it and rub on, or kiss it, or at least point to it on each circuit around it, during Hajj. The pagans that ran the Kaaba before Mohammed did the same thing.
"What part of the Islamic tenet requires the veneration of the black stone? I would like to see a non-Muslim teach me about Islam."
I provided the definition for "venerate" 1 : to regard with reverential respect
You not only bow toward the rock 5 times a day, but every Muslim IS REQUIRED to go on Hajj to Mecca at least once in a lifetime, to march around the rock 7 times, rubbing, kissing, or at least point to it on each round.
Even Roman Catholics aren't REQUIRED to venerate their objects.
It's a MATTER OF FACT that all Muslims DO regard with reverential respect, a black stone in the Kaaba, and even go on Hajj to it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother with Hajj, and would pray in any direction.
Google - hajj tawaf 7 times - for the details in the prior post. Regarding Hajj
[22:27.8] "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."
@webdawah "Give me an Islamic source that makes it an injunction to venerate the black stone."
My friend, you not only bow toward it 5 times a day, but the 5th pillar of Islam requires travel to the Kaaba, and marching around it 7 times, just as the pagans did before Mohammed, while kissing or at least pointing to the black stone on each circuit.
Now Google the term "veneration".
Twaf, or Circumambulation of the Ka'aba was a pagan ritual just as was the jinn-demon worship ritual of the Saee.
@PeteWaldo I'm sure you don't know that the 'black stone' is not the Ka'abah. If you did, you would not mix the two up as if they were the same.
Praying toward the Ka'abah is not venerating it. Do you know how many times it's been destroyed and rebuilt? The Hajj is a ritual of comemoration, not to venerate the Ka'abah.
Understanding Islamic practice may help your crusade, but your argument is spurious all the same.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@webdawah The stone is embedded in the corner of the Kaaba. Muslims point to it on each circuit while performing Twaf. This after being compelled to travel to it, just as the pagans did on their Hajj.
You apparently don't understand the term venerate.
1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
Muslims venerate the very same black stone idol that the Quraish did.
Where are the artifacts? If Mecca had been the epicenter of Allah's people - since Adam - where are the artifacts?
Jerusalem is the epicenter of Judeo/Christian beliefs. The closer you get to Jerusalem the more abundant artifacts become. You can't hardly pick up a shovel full of dirt in Jerusalem, without finding artifacts. They have 1 million artifacts already on display.
If Mecca has been the epicenter of Islam why is there no historical or archaeological record from before the first century?
The reference you gave initially from Psalm was Zion, not mount Zion. A place of dryness does not contradict what is true of Mecca. It is geographically a desert region. Next..
Even your initial premise is absurd. Over the 23 years of Mohammed's record, how did the Makka of suras 48:24 and 33:50 suddenly become the same as the Bakka of sura 3:86?
The same kind of abrogation where non-violent verses of the Quran are abrogated by verses that call Muslims to violence against non-Muslims?
You write "Next..." as if your case is closed, yet all you did was quote an 18th century writer quoting presumptions of a 1st century writer and ridiculous exegesis of the bible.
This is the typical tactic of people who do not like to admit that they have a weak argument. Surahs 48 and 33 have nothing to do with the archeological evidence or historical records for the Ka'abah.
However to enlighten you since you want to go that route, Surah 48 talks largely about the victory of the Treaty of Hudaibiyyah, which is preceded by the victory over the confederates, mentioned in Surah 33. Surah 3:86 talks about hypocrites, and people you hide what they know to be true. Next...
Zion was originally a Jebusite stronghold located in or near Jerusalem or is equal to Jerusalem. King David captures this stronghold and it is renamed City Of David. David sets up the tabernacle there and Solomon retrieves it from there to place the ark and utensils in the temple. Isaiah mentions that YHWH dwells on Mount Zion (8:18) and later writers relate the name Zion to the eternal Jerusalem (Hebr 12:22) and heaven (Rev 14:1)...
Because Zion was originally not Israeli, the name Zion comes to us probably from a language other than Hebrew. TWOTOT mentions an Arabic root s-w-n (under 1910), to protect, defend, which may give Zion the meaning of fortress. Others (says TWOTOT ) suggest derivation from a root saha, be bald...
...Spelled the way it is, however, the name Zion is identical to the word (sayon 1909b) meaning place of dryness, from the assumed root (syh 1909). Derivation (siya 1909a), dryness, drought, occurs in Psalm 105:41.
Perhaps the notion of a dry place taps into the creation account, and specifically the third day, or in the Noahic flood account. A dry place is not a place where people die of thirst, but rather a place where the sea is no more, after it has given all her treasures (Rev 21:1)...
Can anyone bring to bear the ARCHEOLOGICAL & HISTORICAL evidence that Mecca existed prior to the Christian era?
If it was the epicenter of Mohammed's religion, from the time of Abraham, surely there would be the wealth of ARTIFACTS that we find of other Arabian cities, and in virtually every load of dirt in Jerusalem. Surely the closer one got to Mecca, the greater the volume of such EVIDENCE.
What we in fact find, is that prior to the Christian era, Mecca was nothing more than a mirage.
It is itself written in hebrew bible that ishmael is the son of abraham and he is the descendant of todays arabs,hence islam is abrahamic religion and ishmael was elder that isaac.shut your mouth u non muslims
the kaabah was first build by Ibrahim(some said it was first build by Adam) which is Abraham in English. He was one of the prophets. But throught time peoples changed the place into a place which was full with idolistic monuments and associated the ritual with something not part of religion. Muhammad came to purified this.
That is why i put bracket in my last comment. But I there is no authentic sources referring that. Al quran also said it was built by Ibrahim and his son. So no need to argue more
You've lost the plot. The creator and ones interpretations of him are much different then taking a building that was built before Islam was even a word, and claiming it divine.
webdawah, you are the bigot, you dont want to accept that you are worshipping not Elohim from Israel, but "allah" the moon-god idol worshipped before Mohammed, his uncle name was "Abdullah" or server of allah, a name given to him before Mohammed was born. You kiss a Black Stone in Mecca that was long time kissed by the nomads. You make a pilgrim to Mecca, the same way pagans did before Mohammed's time. Mohammed never saw a Koran Book in his days, it was Prince Uthman who collected the verses.
Under the Brith Hadashach, which is actually the fullfillment of the Torah, killing or assessination of innocent people, as the mohammedans jihadists do today, is not right, this is called utterly terrorism. Religion is not imposed by violence either as it happened with Islam version of Mohammed. The context of Deut. has nothing to do with imposing and killing civilians, it is about war between two armies.
There are answers here that I would give to you about those passages taken out of context in your videos. Check your Hebrew and Greek languages to understand that Yeshua is the one who accomplishes the Tanach's prophecies and not Mohammed, a man who killed thousands of people and practiced pedophile.
Religion is updated according to times. Anyway...religion is NO GOOD if there is NO SALVATION, and as I understand not even Mohammed knew where he was going to to after his death...so much for a "prophet" leading others to NOWHERE or to PERDITION. The hadith is there for you to read. But anyway, I dont think you are interested in listening, you are interested in affirming a religion with NO CAUSE, and violent one that calls for the killing of Jews and Christians.
PURE MUSLIM CRAP!!! ALLAH, IS THE MOON GOD BEFORE MOHAMMED'S TIME...KEEP KISSING YOUR BLACK STONE, TOO. AND ALLAH DOESNT EVEN LOVE YOU, SINCE MOHAMMED DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING AFTER HIS DEATH. What a stupid religion!
Am I supposed to take your gibberish seriously? "ALLAH DOESNT EVEN LOVE YOU, SINCE MOHAMMED DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING AFTER HIS DEATH." What's the correlation?
Easy: the number one concern of any religion should be: SALVATION. If your rites, ceremonies and doctrines do not lead you to SALVATION, then this religion is good for NOTHING. But if I believe that the Torah foretold a Messiah Ben Yosef, who was going to die for my sins, and that El Elyon would forgive me by accepting His Sacrifice, and something supernatural happens in my life, then it means that God is interested in my SALVATION. alah, the moon-god doesnt care about you!
If you "believe that the Torah foretold a Messiah Ben Yosef, who was going to die for [your] sins, and that El Elyon would forgive [you] by accepting His Sacrifice, and something supernatural happens in [your] life, then it means that God is interested in [your] SALVATION."
What you fail to understand is that the fact that you believe something does not make it true. You are going around in circles.
The messianic prophecies are there for you to examine...take a look at Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 9:6-53, among others (about 300 prophecies). Now examine history. Why people started to believe in Yeshua as the Moshiach of Israel, risen from the death? Why did they see Him as El Elyon incarnated, that doesnt mean that a physical body can content YHWH's essence. Scriptures and historical evidences. Scriptures + Historical Evidences + Supernatural experience= REAL SALVATION.
I saw your collection of videos on "Dubious Writings" and it seems to me, that there is a big contradiction here. There are about 5000 manuscripts in existance today from the Second Century. The Quram has no manuscript from any date. On the first century Jews wrote about Yeshua and His Resurrection. Second Century Greek Jews from the Diaspora showed this way to Gentiles. Quram was written 250 years after Mohammed's death. Inspiration is in the Bible, not the Quran.
It is clear Kaaba was previously a temple that preislamic Arabians revered. Question is: what was in the temple. Hindus have considered Mecca a sacred place (Makeshwar the local deity is mentioned in shivapurana) and Kaaba was a hindu temple. Its main deity was Shiva or Makeshwar but had other deities as well etched on the stone walls. Mohammad destroyed these idols but kept the central symbol (shivalinga) intact. That is where it stands today.
Sorry, the main diety was Hubal, and the stone that was left is that believed to have fallen as an asteroid during the times of Hajar(pbuh). Shiva Linga has/had no place in Arabia(at least nothing historically indicates that). The silver brace around the stone is for security, and is not that old.
Allah was the main diety,Hubal,Manat and Allat are the more important others.
Trying to bring in abraham is vain,becos the jewish traditions have been quite clear on that count,the abrahamic prophets never ventured there.
Prophets grandfather was a Sabbaite and that was the religion predominant for all arabs,particulary mohamads subtribe .and his grandfather and uncles were temple trustees.
The islamic crescent and star denotes Turkish Tengri Crescent moon and sun as star.
The vagina worship relates to the goddess Al-uzza (Venus), one of the three daughters of Allah. The Ka'abah silver vagina framing the meteorite (black stone) is aligned to the planet Venus, according to polytheistic beliefs. Venus (also known as Isis and Issa) was worshipped throughout history in other cultures alternatively as a goddess of war, peace, and fertility. As a female symbol it also relates to the great mother's womb, but was lowered in status by Muhammad to that of Allah (the moon).
No. You have misunderstood the infinity theorem of Émile Borel. And while it may well be possible for an infinite number of monkeys to type randomly for an infinite amount of time to recreate all works of literature (including the Qur'an), the creativity per se is not existent. The moon god and sun god and vagina and meteor worship et al are, among others, well documented origins of Islam that even a monkey can understand.
I don't think you understand the meaning of reference. Look at you trying to sound educated, yet you cannot comprehend being asked to provide reference.
1. Has no bearing on Islam
2. You have said nothing new, or anything that deserves applause.
3. So...
4. Al- ilah simply means the god. Anyone who speaks Arabic would refer to their deity as "al-ilah."
5. Read above for the refutation.
6. Read a little about the history of how the Ka'abah was erected, then you won't sound uneducated.
To state that moon worship has no bearing on Islam is absurd. All the rest is opacification and denial with no viable refutation. Of all the assertions you make, your allusion to the Kaaba's origins is the most vulnerable.
The parable of Abraham notwithstanding (but you are welcome to provide proof), the Kaaba was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity, and contained 360 idols which either represented the days of the year, or were effigies of the Arabian pantheon.
Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian peninsula, be they Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj. To keep the peace among the perpetually warring tribes, Mecca was declared a sanctuary where no violence was allowed within 20 miles of the Kaaba. This combat-free zone allowed Mecca to thrive not only as a place of pilgrimage, as a shrine to the three daughters of god, but also as a trading center.
While praying in the Al-Qiblatain mosque in Medina, Muhammad was ordered by God to change the qibla direction from Jerusalem to Mecca. The strongest theory for this change was the reluctance of the Jews of Medina to accept Muhammad as a prophet.
After Muhammad's return to Mecca in 630 AD, the Muslim community became a political and military force. The Kaaba was re-dedicated as an Islamic house of worship, and all idols except the black stone were destroyed.
tkw the truth may set you free,but lies and slander shall forever be a hallmark of your level of ignorance. you have no idea whether you are coming or going.
Many Jews had embraced Islam before the Qiblah was changed to the first building dedicated to the worship of God. Your theory fails. You need to read history, the life of the Prophet and the Qur'an. Your are very oblivious to the truth. When you find it, I hope it sets you free.
Qur'an 41:37 Now among His signs are the night and the day, as well as the sun and the moon: [hence,] adore not the sun or the moon, but prostrate yourselves in adoration before God, who has created them - if it is Him whom you [really] worship.
I asked you to provide your references, which you conveniently igored, yet you want proof from me?
Just as Muhammad incorporated the pagan veneration of the Kaaba and black stone into Islam, so he incorporated the Sabean times of prayer, Eid, and ritualized fasting. Every Muslim that makes the Hajj, runs between the hills, bestows a kiss on the black stone, is performing pagan rituals, founded on pagan superstitions, sanctioned by Muhammad himself.
My references for this are the original Hughes Dictionary of Islam (not the recently sanitized Muslim version), the Shorter Ency. of Islam and the Ency. of Islam (E. J. Brill), and 'The Sources of Islam' (Tisdall).
The Qur'an as a source continues to be debated among Muslim scholars themselves, and thus any details of substance remain indefinable, even by Islamic standards.
Your dishonesty, and disregard for truth has totally blinded you. Read page 218 and 219 of "Dictionary of Islam" by Hughes. Your own sources refute you claims.
At the commencement of Muhammad's mission, It is remarkable that there is scarcely an allusion to the Ka'bah, and this fact, taken with the circumstance that the earliest Qiblah or direction for prayer, was Jerusalem, and not the Ka'bah, seems to imply that Muhammad's strong iconoclastic tendencies did so incline his sympathies to this ancient idol with its Superstitious ceremonies.
Had the Jews favourably received the new as one who taught the religion of Abraham, to abrogation of that of Moses and Jesus, Jerusalem and not Makkah-would have been the sacred city, and the ancient Rock and not the Ka'bah would have the object of superstitious reverence.
We then come to Surah xvii, i, where Muhammad refers to his celebrated night dream of his journey from the Sacred Mosque (al-Masjidu 'l-Haram) at Makkah to the Remote Mosque (al-Masjidu 'l-Aqsa) at Jerusalem. And in this verse we find the Rock at Jerusalem spoken of as "the precinct of which We (God) have blessed, to show him (Muhammad) of our signs," proving that even then the Prophet of Arabiz had his heart fixed on Mount Zion, and not on the Ka'bah.
Now we see how you contradict your own claims. Maybe the problem is that you can't read or just desperate to make a point. One statement that inculdes Masjid Al Haram, and Masjid Al Aqsa in one breathe just shows how much late in the life of Muhammad(pbuh) this event took place. I might not be able to give the number, but countless Jews had accepted Islam by this time. So your claim that this had anything to do with the Jews is refuted.
...But what events according to the Qur'an, hadith, or the seerah can you enumerate to establish your claim? I'm tired of reading your empty theories. Why are you so blind to the truth?
Like I said earlier, you would have done an objective research after you have read the history of how the Ka'abah was erected. History of a building does not begin from after the biulding was established. You are not saying anything new.
Well, if quoting Islamic scholars and the Qur'an is not proof enough for you, then maybe you need to witness Islam in action -- such as a woman being stoned to death or a girl kicked to death. In any case, if you are a moderate Muslim, whatever that may mean today, then you need to CLEAN YOUR HOUSE before others have to do it for you.
You obviously know knothing about Islam. I assume you will believe whatever you want to believe, in spite of whatever you see otherwise. You will never be able to use the Qur'an to support your claim against Islam. Trying to sound like you know what you are saying might work elsewhere, not here.
Actually, it is the racist black muhammadans that are haters. Not black hindus or black christians or black atheists for that matter. Just the black muhamamdans who have been colonized and enslaved yet again.
Being childish? More like waiting for you to do more than realy on evasion and excuses.
And, while race has nothing to do with my objecitons to muhammadanism, race has everything to do with why YOU became a 'muslim'....lol
You have something against "black" people, and you confirm my allegation. I was born into Islam. Racist are not allowed on channel. You have called me names because I'm to good for you. Now you have attacked my race. Good riddance. You Have Been Blocked! :)
Keep in mind that many altars in the region were consecrated to Baal-Peor, Hu'Baal [allah] and other pagan Canannite 'gods'. I am very skeptical of extrabiblical declarations of sacrity.
All I need is the preislamic evidence that proves your claims. I have cited the historical and legitimate placement of Stobe Age altars, per your request. I have also given ample evidence that not EVERY altar was built for the worship of God, but sometimes for the worship of Canaanite Baals [Canaanite/Arab].
Any altar could have been for God or Baal, as the case may be. No proof from you as to which is from Baal, only allegations. You cannot prove that any altar was built for any purpose except it suits your weak argument.
The Bible gives us the locations of altars built for God [cited earlier] and the locations in Palestine where the Baal gods ensnared the Isrealites [Judg 2:11-14; 3:7]. All Mahomet of Mecca did was cast down the images of pagan deities, not the history or nature of your idol worship.
It is important to note that the Baals were Canaanite gods, hence from the descendents of Ishmael. Therefore any altar outside of Isreal must categoricaly be considered pagan.
"Any altar outside Israel must categorically be considered pagan" Is there anything that can support you assertion from the Bible? Ishmael(pbuh) grew up in Paran, where Mecca is today, the spring that the angel created by striking the ground, still exists today(zamzam). Mount Sinai is north of Paran, in Saudi Arabia of today. All your Canaanite paganism, that you allege has nothing to do with monotheism, plus check yourself and your 3 god doctrine...that's pagan.
Mecca is not in Paran. Hagar chose an Egyption wife for Ishmael, so to assert that they lived 700 miles South of the Lavant is laughable. All of these Biblcal personalites lived in the Lavant region and traveled from Ur to the Nile. None of them EVER were in Mecca. Since this is indisputable in preislamic records, your 'zamzam' river is more Muhammadan fiction fabricated in the 7th century by the false prophet from Mecca.
Modern archeological research shows contrary to your "indisputable" records. ZamZam is a spring and still exists. Your Lavant crap has been disproved.
Even if [and I am not agreeing with you] Ishmael lived in the area now called Mecca, what preislamic evidence do you have that he built any altars? It all sounds very apocryphal and legendary. Not supported by history.
Please make up your mind. Is the Bible historical or theological? You flip from from one personality to another whenever you need to make a convenient attack.
Lets discuss dancing. We praise his holy name with dancing and playing musical instruments [Psa 149:3;150:4]. King David danced before the LORD [II Sam 6:14] and God himself 'turns mourning into dancing [Psa 30:11].
Is there anything other than the songs of worship and liturgical chants that prove dancing and clapping are a way of worship? Is THAT your follow up question!?
Mezizah is only performed on infants, not adults. St. Paul, therefore, did not have a penis in his mouth. Your ignnorance of custom is disgusting, but expected with black American Muhammadans.
The word 'Christian' was originally an insult, but, we took it away from the haters and made it a badge of honor.
Jim Jones? St. Paul never killed ANYBODY! So, Jim Jones was much more like your 'prophet' from Mecca! lol...
Where is your mezizah reference? You are a Christain not a Jew, so back up your claim. I'm not a black American, I'm a Muslim. Keep your racist remarks.
Yeah, Paul killed quite a few Christians and was on his way to kill more when he saw the "blinding light."
And about the word "Christian," I'm glad you know its origin. All civilization have called the followers of Jesus(pbuh), Christians. Some even say that the earliest followers were Jewish Christians who still practiced Jewish rites before Paul corrupted the creed. The only place where you find Christians being called a different name is the Qur'an...
... So called Christians are called Nazarenes, the Jewish sect that Jesus(pbuh) belonged to. The point is that the word "Christian" is mockery of men by men, but God does not have to stoop to the level of men by doing the same...And does not become men either.
Jesus was a Nazarene because he was raised in Nazareth. You are confusing 'Nazarite' with 'Nazarene'. A common mistake among those who should know better. St. Paul was a Nazarite.
Christians have been mocked since day one. Day 60,465 won't be any different, and yet it is we who brought down the Roman Empire, and it is we who will bring doen Muhammadanism. We will do it by being mocked, jailed and killed for the Savior.
hahhahha....Nazareth was settled since the PrePottery Neolithic Period! It just wasn't on Roman maps and it was too small to be mentioned elsewhere...lol..read some real books on the history of Palestine, and not Muhammadan propaganda.
I think out ALL my comments. You should consider doing the same.
Lol, you can't make it stick, the random city chosen to be Nazareth was not even part of Jesus'(pbuh) itinerary. False religion, false doctrine, lies upon lies.
Paul didn't kill anybody. Saul was a bounty hunter and a killer before he was 'circumcised in the heart'. You mock his conversion? Typical pagan! Just like the pagans of his own day.
What else would change the heart of Saul the persecutor to Paul the martyr than a visit from the very Christ himself?
There were many witnessess to the blinding light you mock. How many witnessess to the angel 'jabril'? NONE! ZERO! HA!
Why do you call me racist, before you get blocked?
Plus your Paul gave conflicting accounts of his 'vision'. He saw the light alone and heard the voice, in another, everyone saw the light but he only got blind.
Tell me where in the Bible that Gabriel was seen by other that ppl he appeared to.
Camels wash away human sins in my Scripture? Where?! Show me!I am still waiting for you to show me that the Kaaba was built by Abraham! And you want to discuss Biblical theology!?
Awesome video, thank you.
May Allah reward you.
Marwaaden 10 months ago
@Marwaaden And you too, Ameen.
webdawah 10 months ago
If we (Muslim)tell u again and again about Islam u will never satisfied with our proof and statement till Qiamah.U will see someday Islam will dominate the world and when u die u will know that Allah is the only God
KiSaMe8877 11 months ago 2
@KiSaMe8877 ...Dominate the world doesn't mean Islam is the truth . Islam dominate the world with terror,and muslims can easily increase their number because they practise poligamy or exodus from violence Arab country in middle east (entering the west peaceful country)....ISLAM= satanic religion ....Kaabah= house of djin, satan , evil spirit.....hajar aswad the black stone= pagan stone that is worshipped in paganism ritual before Islam (in ancient paganism time before mohammed).
Juanod09 10 months ago
@KiSaMe8877 ...Dominate the world doesn't mean Islam as the truth . Islam dominate the world with terror,and muslims can easily increase their number because they practise poligamy or exodus from violence Arab country in middle east (entering the west peaceful country)....ISLAM= satanic religion ....Kaabah= house of djin, satan , evil spirit.....hajar aswad the black stone= pagan stone that is worshipped in paganism ritual before Islam (in ancient paganism time before mohammed).
Juanod09 10 months ago
@MrChickybee1
Jews know better than refer to Allah as a “moon god”. Since the Jews understand the Semitic languages, they know better than to say, the God the Muslims Worship is a “moon god” unlike some Christian who care so ignorant to this fact.
Marwaaden 11 months ago
@MrChickybee1 You are a numbskull. There is no stealing, there is only one God.
webdawah 1 year ago
bull shit! why you got to steal credibility from the torah and bible, and then bash the sources where you stole you info from?
bigpoppamot 1 year ago
@bigpoppamot "why you got to steal credibility..."
Please, go to school.
webdawah 1 year ago
@bigpoppamot
If you believe quran is plagiarized from bible then i suggest you to read the book "200+ Ways the Quran Corrects the Bible:" from whom Prophet Muhammad Pbuh learnt bible without any Jewish presence or Christian presence in Makkah ?
Infact when first he met the Jews many years later after he received his first revelation Jews privately admitted that they recognized him as the true messenger of God but as they feared of losing power over the pagan only few of them accepted islam
warriorswill 1 year ago
apparently "baka" is a very popular term in semitic languages, since the arabs, israelites, and phoenicians (Bekaa Valley--where the temple of Baalbek stood) had their own Baka valleys.
The israelite house of God was in Jerusalem, or else the saudis need to honor God's promise to the Jews and cede the territory (if they are indeed submissive to God).
muslUnbounded 1 year ago
@muslUnbounded God is not a racist. Go figure.
webdawah 1 year ago
not surprising that mohammed would invent the myth of Abraham making the idol known as the kaaba (which probably derives its name from the ancient egyptian ideas of 2 souls, the ka & the ba). after all, mohammed had to yield to the pagans' desires to continue worshipping that stone, just as he claimed to have received the koran in a cave (caves were sacred to the pagan arabs). Somehow i don't see God appearing as Anubis to speak to Moses' Pharoah, & i don't believe mohammed purified anything.
muslUnbounded 1 year ago
@muslUnbounded You don't have to believe. Belief is subjective, but it makes you look like you would disagree with just anything when you make claims without proof.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah, well, the problem of knowing what happened in arabia is difficult because arabs didn't preserve their history, opening the door to invent whatever they wanted. Abraham had nothing to do with arabia. if he kicked a slave woman (Hagar) and her cruel son (Ishmael) out of his house and into that desert, there is no reason to visit arabia. in fact, it shows that he had no interest in arabia as a destination.
muslUnbounded 1 year ago
@muslUnbounded What I deduce from your comment: You claim that Abraham is a rapist, a dead beat father, and a cruel man to do what you claim he did.
You state as 'fact' that he had no interest in Arabia without an ounce of proof, yet you say that Arabs 'invent[ed]' their history.
I don't intend to continue this conversation with you.
webdawah 1 year ago
Comment removed
warriorswill 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Even if I misunderstood the source to credit it doesn't change the content of the quote. I see you didn't address the content of the quote.
Let's try a little consolidation of several points.
Do Muslims today, bow toward and circumambulate the same black stone that the pagan moon god worshipers circumambulated, before Mohammed?
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
religionresearchinstitute. org/mecca/classical. htm
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
islamic-awareness. org/History/kaaba. html
webdawah 1 year ago
islamic-awareness. org/History/kaaba. html
religionresearchinstitute. org/mecca/classical. htm
Compare the EVIDENCE from our two links & find the truth. (copy & paste the one I provided into a search engine)
The reference in yours to
"...temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians."
was a temple of the coastal tribe of the Batmizomaneis.
Even Mohammed's tribe went on annual pilgrimage to holy place long after the Kaaba was built.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Is this from the same book referenced, or you just had to have a comeback?
webdawah 1 year ago
Mohammed's tribe going on pilgrimage is in the Quran.
They also went on Hajj to "...Taif where there was also a temple called Kaabah of Ellat, or Kaabah of the Sun. This Kaabah was more significant and much older than the Kaabah of Mecca. All Arabs, including the tribe of Quraish from which Mohammed came, venerated this Kaabah."
(from Ibn Abbas in Tabari, Jami)
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Your source says he got this from Ibn Kathir, but you claim it is from Ibn Abbas. Which of you is the liar?
webdawah 1 year ago
@PeteWaldo The stupid Whore, who sucks Jews dick while Talmud holding offending passages for Jesus
Let me figure "Batmizomaneis " means bani Zomran a tribe lived closer to Makkah near red sea
so who was correct he or you the liar punk copy pasting some anti Islamic lies without even knowing the meaning ?
warriorswill 1 year ago
There's plenty of such historical and archaeological evidence for ancient Arabian cities like Qedar, Dedan and Teima, but apparently NONE for Mecca prior to the first century. Where is the ancient city? Where are the remnants of thousands of years of civilization there?
None because Mecca didn't exist prior to the first century. It was settled some time between the first century and Mohammed, perhaps by a bunch of pagan rock idol worshipers.
Here's a video on the subject.
watch?v=O4ZAH6r8vHg
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
The ancient Bakka is Mecca, and there is ample evidence from the Bible, and the Qur'an. Archeological artifacts may not be found without digging under the mosque.
webdawah 1 year ago
Because "...the Yemeni tribe of Khuzaa'h built the city of Mecca in the 4th century A.D. "
"The date on which the Black Stone first appeared in Mecca was at the time of Mohammeds grandfather, sometime between 495 and 520 A.D."
"Asad Abu Karb was the True Builder of Kaabah in the Beginning of the 5th century A.D."
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Where's the reference for your ridiculous claims?
webdawah 1 year ago
I would have put a link with the quote but last time you removed my post with a link. Copy & paste the quote into Google or type in Dr. Rafat Amari.
Where is YOUR historical & archaeological evidence that Mecca existed prior to the first century?
Failing that, whose claims of Abraham having anything to do with Mohammed's 7th century religion thousands of years later and 766 miles away are "ridiculous"?
Were lots of Kaabas in Mohammed's day and each had a black stone. Iranians just built another.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
@PeteWaldo the stupid whore
Rafat Amari is not a scholar he is just another christian apologist like you .
He even claimed bible is historically correct while ignoring the fact
1 . There is no historical evidence of Moses crossed the sea with 600000 men as bible described infact Archaeologists says its impossible BY ANY MEANS.
2.600000 men plus women and children as bible described that means nearly 2 million Hebrew slaved being kept in Egypt but it is impossible according to demography
warriorswill 1 year ago
* bible claimed there was a global flood at the time of Noah but its impossible according to all Archaeologists .
* Bible claimed first men on the earth lived 6000 years ago and Earth is only 6000 years old ha good fairy tales
But Archaeologists found stone which they claim is as older as 4.6 billion years .
Go sell your cheap mythological belief elsewhere instead of attacking other religions based on some assumptions/myth created by another Christian apologist liar
warriorswill 1 year ago
If my claims are ridiculous then why did the classical authors, who visited and wrote about western Arabia mention all the tribes who were living there, even the tiny ones, never once mention Mecca?
Where are the artifacts that demonstrate that this city preceded the first century? You've produced nothing. Try a search like - archaeology of Mecca - or - archaeological and historical record of Mecca.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
What is artifacts found supposed to say? "Made in Mecca?" Your premise is illogical. Mecca was never always the name of the place, maybe if you are planning to be objective, you can find the answers you seek.
webdawah 1 year ago
"What is artifacts found supposed to say? "Made in Mecca?""
Are you this challenged? Do the 1 million artifacts on display in Jerusalem say "made in Jerusalem"?
Artifacts are identified by THE PLACE from which they are recovered. Where are the ARTIFACTS recovered from in and around Mecca, that would demonstrate that it has been the center of Mohammed's religion since Abraham?
There AREN'T any that suggest life at all, prior to the first century.
Where are the old city remains? They AREN'T.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
I really do wonder what artifacts you are looking for? Prayer rugs or what? Islam does not have anything tangible as a representation of the religion. The practice of Islam is in the hearts and not artifacts.
BTW, I think a sense of humor eludes you.
webdawah 1 year ago
Why do you keep insisting on RELIGIOUS ARTIFACTS?
Artifacts are ANYTHING left behind by people that have been inhabiting a place for thousands of years. Bowls, tools, remains of an old city, etc..
If Mecca had been the center of Islam for 3500 years there would be boatloads of the stuff.
It would be the most written about place in Arabia by the 6 BC to the 3 AD geographers/historians.
Yet the only reference I have seen any Muslim pull out of their hat is 18th cent Gibbons.
watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
So, you think that a sanctuary is equivalent to say, a city where people live and carry on with daily lives?
Besides, which archeologists have been digging around Mecca, and claimed not to have found anything?
webdawah 1 year ago
Indeed all the REAL record shows is that the Kaaba was an Arabian pagan temple built some time between the first century and Mohammed, to house 360 rock idols, that Mohammed eventually threw out ...... except one.
But then veneration of meteorites is nothing new in the habits of mankind. There is plenty of historical and archaeological record to confirm that.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
You answered your own question. Islam does not permit the worship of idols, nor the engraving of images or anything of that kind. How are you supposed to find artifacts?
webdawah 1 year ago
Islam does not permit the worship of idols...]]]
Yet you don't hesitate to bow to & venerate a black stone.
[[[[[..... nor the engraving of images or anything of that kind. How are you supposed to find artifacts?]]]]
Because if Mecca had been the center of Islamic worship since Abraham, remnants of old city would exist. Stuff folks used in everyday life would be in evidence, like the million artifacts on display in Jeruslamem.
Mecca, nadda. Because it didn't exist prior to first century.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
I don't know if you read the comments you post. Muslims do not venerate the black stone, it's significance is only historical and part of the story of the Ka'abah. There is no such thing as the mention of a stone, or inanimate object in our prayers or worship. Like I said earlier, it is forbidden.
If you have been anywhere close to the Ka'abah, you would know that there's no way for artifacts to be found. You would have to dig under the mosque to find anything if that would be allowed.
webdawah 1 year ago
"Muslims do not venerate the black stone..."
venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
Any Muslim that denies VENERATION of the black stone, is not much of a Muslim since each Muslim must travel to it and march around it and rub on, or kiss it, or at least point to it on each circuit around it, during Hajj. The pagans that ran the Kaaba before Mohammed did the same thing.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
What part of the Islamic tenet requires the veneration of the black stone? I would like to see a non-Muslim teach me about Islam.
webdawah 1 year ago
"What part of the Islamic tenet requires the veneration of the black stone? I would like to see a non-Muslim teach me about Islam."
I provided the definition for "venerate" 1 : to regard with reverential respect
You not only bow toward the rock 5 times a day, but every Muslim IS REQUIRED to go on Hajj to Mecca at least once in a lifetime, to march around the rock 7 times, rubbing, kissing, or at least point to it on each round.
Even Roman Catholics aren't REQUIRED to venerate their objects.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
I asked you to provide the Islamic injunction to what you claim. Stop repeating your inane assertions.
webdawah 1 year ago
It's a MATTER OF FACT that all Muslims DO regard with reverential respect, a black stone in the Kaaba, and even go on Hajj to it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother with Hajj, and would pray in any direction.
Google - hajj tawaf 7 times - for the details in the prior post. Regarding Hajj
[22:27.8] "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Give me an Islamic source that makes it an injunction to venerate the black stone.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah "Give me an Islamic source that makes it an injunction to venerate the black stone."
My friend, you not only bow toward it 5 times a day, but the 5th pillar of Islam requires travel to the Kaaba, and marching around it 7 times, just as the pagans did before Mohammed, while kissing or at least pointing to the black stone on each circuit.
Now Google the term "veneration".
Twaf, or Circumambulation of the Ka'aba was a pagan ritual just as was the jinn-demon worship ritual of the Saee.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
@PeteWaldo I'm sure you don't know that the 'black stone' is not the Ka'abah. If you did, you would not mix the two up as if they were the same.
Praying toward the Ka'abah is not venerating it. Do you know how many times it's been destroyed and rebuilt? The Hajj is a ritual of comemoration, not to venerate the Ka'abah.
Understanding Islamic practice may help your crusade, but your argument is spurious all the same.
webdawah 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@webdawah The stone is embedded in the corner of the Kaaba. Muslims point to it on each circuit while performing Twaf. This after being compelled to travel to it, just as the pagans did on their Hajj.
You apparently don't understand the term venerate.
1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
Muslims venerate the very same black stone idol that the Quraish did.
watch?v=EQ8cnOoXBhA
While YHWH is omnipresent
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Where are the artifacts? If Mecca had been the epicenter of Allah's people - since Adam - where are the artifacts?
Jerusalem is the epicenter of Judeo/Christian beliefs. The closer you get to Jerusalem the more abundant artifacts become. You can't hardly pick up a shovel full of dirt in Jerusalem, without finding artifacts. They have 1 million artifacts already on display.
If Mecca has been the epicenter of Islam why is there no historical or archaeological record from before the first century?
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Absent archaeological and historical record, prior to the first century, Mecca existed as nothing more than a desert mirage.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
"Zion is identical to the word (sayon 1909b) meaning place of dryness..."
Did you even look at your self contradiction before you posted it?
Haven't you ever even read the Bible?
Zion is referenced 153 times in the Word of God.
Zion is the easternmost hill in the city of Jerusalem.
"...Zion: the same [is] the city of David."
"...covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which [is] Zion."
"For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion..."
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
The reference you gave initially from Psalm was Zion, not mount Zion. A place of dryness does not contradict what is true of Mecca. It is geographically a desert region. Next..
webdawah 1 year ago
Even your initial premise is absurd. Over the 23 years of Mohammed's record, how did the Makka of suras 48:24 and 33:50 suddenly become the same as the Bakka of sura 3:86?
The same kind of abrogation where non-violent verses of the Quran are abrogated by verses that call Muslims to violence against non-Muslims?
You write "Next..." as if your case is closed, yet all you did was quote an 18th century writer quoting presumptions of a 1st century writer and ridiculous exegesis of the bible.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
This is the typical tactic of people who do not like to admit that they have a weak argument. Surahs 48 and 33 have nothing to do with the archeological evidence or historical records for the Ka'abah.
However to enlighten you since you want to go that route, Surah 48 talks largely about the victory of the Treaty of Hudaibiyyah, which is preceded by the victory over the confederates, mentioned in Surah 33. Surah 3:86 talks about hypocrites, and people you hide what they know to be true. Next...
webdawah 1 year ago
"people who hide..."
webdawah 1 year ago
"Surahs 48 and 33 have nothing to do with the archeological evidence or historical records for the Ka'abah."
Indeed! Quran cannot be relied on as a historical record of Mecca because it was written in the 7th century.
The question I posed was how did "Makka" change to "Bakkah" over just a 23 year record?
"Next..."
So where is the archaeological and historical record that demonstrates that Mecca ever existed before the first century?
Try a web search of the subject.
WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
It was not a change, but a reference to the same. The same land that has bore two different names.
webdawah 1 year ago
Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.
You went through a lot of trouble when all you had to do was read the next verse:
84:7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them]IN ZION appeareth before God.
Thus we see this passage describing a journey to ZION - to Jerusalem - to the Holy Land.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
Zion was originally a Jebusite stronghold located in or near Jerusalem or is equal to Jerusalem. King David captures this stronghold and it is renamed City Of David. David sets up the tabernacle there and Solomon retrieves it from there to place the ark and utensils in the temple. Isaiah mentions that YHWH dwells on Mount Zion (8:18) and later writers relate the name Zion to the eternal Jerusalem (Hebr 12:22) and heaven (Rev 14:1)...
webdawah 1 year ago
Because Zion was originally not Israeli, the name Zion comes to us probably from a language other than Hebrew. TWOTOT mentions an Arabic root s-w-n (under 1910), to protect, defend, which may give Zion the meaning of fortress. Others (says TWOTOT ) suggest derivation from a root saha, be bald...
webdawah 1 year ago
...Spelled the way it is, however, the name Zion is identical to the word (sayon 1909b) meaning place of dryness, from the assumed root (syh 1909). Derivation (siya 1909a), dryness, drought, occurs in Psalm 105:41.
Perhaps the notion of a dry place taps into the creation account, and specifically the third day, or in the Noahic flood account. A dry place is not a place where people die of thirst, but rather a place where the sea is no more, after it has given all her treasures (Rev 21:1)...
webdawah 1 year ago
...On the Biblical canvass, the name Zion means Dry Place.
Another name that means Dryness is Horeb.
webdawah 1 year ago
Copied from abarim-publications website.
webdawah 1 year ago
Can anyone bring to bear the ARCHEOLOGICAL & HISTORICAL evidence that Mecca existed prior to the Christian era?
If it was the epicenter of Mohammed's religion, from the time of Abraham, surely there would be the wealth of ARTIFACTS that we find of other Arabian cities, and in virtually every load of dirt in Jerusalem. Surely the closer one got to Mecca, the greater the volume of such EVIDENCE.
What we in fact find, is that prior to the Christian era, Mecca was nothing more than a mirage.
PeteWaldo 1 year ago
It is itself written in hebrew bible that ishmael is the son of abraham and he is the descendant of todays arabs,hence islam is abrahamic religion and ishmael was elder that isaac.shut your mouth u non muslims
yaseensharif2008 2 years ago
thankyou for uploading brother!!
HMCheema 2 years ago
The hajj is part of Ibrahim ways of worshipping god. It is just a ritual. Nothing more.
exuaf 2 years ago
the kaabah was first build by Ibrahim(some said it was first build by Adam) which is Abraham in English. He was one of the prophets. But throught time peoples changed the place into a place which was full with idolistic monuments and associated the ritual with something not part of religion. Muhammad came to purified this.
exuaf 2 years ago
it was built by adam pbuh and rebuilt by abraham pbuh after the great flood
akhan62 2 years ago
That is why i put bracket in my last comment. But I there is no authentic sources referring that. Al quran also said it was built by Ibrahim and his son. So no need to argue more
exuaf 2 years ago
muslims should understand that kaaba is pre islamic and hence non islamic.
ecstacymaster 3 years ago
Maybe no religion has the right to God, since religions predate one another.
webdawah 3 years ago
Webdawah:
You've lost the plot. The creator and ones interpretations of him are much different then taking a building that was built before Islam was even a word, and claiming it divine.
Mrgyn 3 years ago
...and who was responsible for the building, and for what purpose? Let's find out who's lost the plot.
webdawah 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Webdawah:
Abraham built The Kaba, according to written history. Islam hijacked Abraham and many other things from different Abrahamic religions.
Mrgyn 3 years ago
Which Abrahamic religions do you speak of, and what was this thing you said was hijacked?
You did not tell me what the purpose of the Kaabah is, and how it is different from the practice of the descendants of Abraham...the Muslims.
webdawah 3 years ago
Wabawah:
I'm not going to repeat myself.
Mrgyn 3 years ago
I thought so.
webdawah 3 years ago
webdawah, you are the bigot, you dont want to accept that you are worshipping not Elohim from Israel, but "allah" the moon-god idol worshipped before Mohammed, his uncle name was "Abdullah" or server of allah, a name given to him before Mohammed was born. You kiss a Black Stone in Mecca that was long time kissed by the nomads. You make a pilgrim to Mecca, the same way pagans did before Mohammed's time. Mohammed never saw a Koran Book in his days, it was Prince Uthman who collected the verses.
rocermi61 3 years ago
f you have an inkling of what the word "bigot" means, you would see that you have just displayed it in your comment yet again.
Which part of the New Testament did Jesus(pbuh) see during his days?
I don't have time for this non-stimulating discussion. Bye.
webdawah 3 years ago
Under the Brith Hadashach, which is actually the fullfillment of the Torah, killing or assessination of innocent people, as the mohammedans jihadists do today, is not right, this is called utterly terrorism. Religion is not imposed by violence either as it happened with Islam version of Mohammed. The context of Deut. has nothing to do with imposing and killing civilians, it is about war between two armies.
rocermi61 3 years ago
I'm sure you can read. If I am right, then you are a liar.
webdawah 3 years ago
There are answers here that I would give to you about those passages taken out of context in your videos. Check your Hebrew and Greek languages to understand that Yeshua is the one who accomplishes the Tanach's prophecies and not Mohammed, a man who killed thousands of people and practiced pedophile.
rocermi61 3 years ago
Show me the age of consent in the Bible, and show me how wrong it is to kill enemies in battle after reading Duet. 20: 10-15
webdawah 3 years ago
Religion is updated according to times. Anyway...religion is NO GOOD if there is NO SALVATION, and as I understand not even Mohammed knew where he was going to to after his death...so much for a "prophet" leading others to NOWHERE or to PERDITION. The hadith is there for you to read. But anyway, I dont think you are interested in listening, you are interested in affirming a religion with NO CAUSE, and violent one that calls for the killing of Jews and Christians.
rocermi61 3 years ago
Your claims have no basis, why would I listen to you when you talk like a bigot?
webdawah 3 years ago
PURE MUSLIM CRAP!!! ALLAH, IS THE MOON GOD BEFORE MOHAMMED'S TIME...KEEP KISSING YOUR BLACK STONE, TOO. AND ALLAH DOESNT EVEN LOVE YOU, SINCE MOHAMMED DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING AFTER HIS DEATH. What a stupid religion!
rocermi61 3 years ago
Am I supposed to take your gibberish seriously? "ALLAH DOESNT EVEN LOVE YOU, SINCE MOHAMMED DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING AFTER HIS DEATH." What's the correlation?
PS: Typing in all caps is a sign of immaturity.
webdawah 3 years ago
Easy: the number one concern of any religion should be: SALVATION. If your rites, ceremonies and doctrines do not lead you to SALVATION, then this religion is good for NOTHING. But if I believe that the Torah foretold a Messiah Ben Yosef, who was going to die for my sins, and that El Elyon would forgive me by accepting His Sacrifice, and something supernatural happens in my life, then it means that God is interested in my SALVATION. alah, the moon-god doesnt care about you!
rocermi61 3 years ago
If you "believe that the Torah foretold a Messiah Ben Yosef, who was going to die for [your] sins, and that El Elyon would forgive [you] by accepting His Sacrifice, and something supernatural happens in [your] life, then it means that God is interested in [your] SALVATION."
What you fail to understand is that the fact that you believe something does not make it true. You are going around in circles.
webdawah 3 years ago
The messianic prophecies are there for you to examine...take a look at Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 9:6-53, among others (about 300 prophecies). Now examine history. Why people started to believe in Yeshua as the Moshiach of Israel, risen from the death? Why did they see Him as El Elyon incarnated, that doesnt mean that a physical body can content YHWH's essence. Scriptures and historical evidences. Scriptures + Historical Evidences + Supernatural experience= REAL SALVATION.
rocermi61 3 years ago
Many of these claims have been disproved. Take a look at my videos "Dubious Writings." There are more to come.
webdawah 3 years ago
I saw your collection of videos on "Dubious Writings" and it seems to me, that there is a big contradiction here. There are about 5000 manuscripts in existance today from the Second Century. The Quram has no manuscript from any date. On the first century Jews wrote about Yeshua and His Resurrection. Second Century Greek Jews from the Diaspora showed this way to Gentiles. Quram was written 250 years after Mohammed's death. Inspiration is in the Bible, not the Quran.
rocermi61 3 years ago
Give references to these claims please.
webdawah 3 years ago
thank you for the very interesting video.
ponti169 3 years ago
It is clear Kaaba was previously a temple that preislamic Arabians revered. Question is: what was in the temple. Hindus have considered Mecca a sacred place (Makeshwar the local deity is mentioned in shivapurana) and Kaaba was a hindu temple. Its main deity was Shiva or Makeshwar but had other deities as well etched on the stone walls. Mohammad destroyed these idols but kept the central symbol (shivalinga) intact. That is where it stands today.
rsridhar 3 years ago
Sorry, the main diety was Hubal, and the stone that was left is that believed to have fallen as an asteroid during the times of Hajar(pbuh). Shiva Linga has/had no place in Arabia(at least nothing historically indicates that). The silver brace around the stone is for security, and is not that old.
webdawah 3 years ago
Allah was the main diety,Hubal,Manat and Allat are the more important others.
Trying to bring in abraham is vain,becos the jewish traditions have been quite clear on that count,the abrahamic prophets never ventured there.
Prophets grandfather was a Sabbaite and that was the religion predominant for all arabs,particulary mohamads subtribe .and his grandfather and uncles were temple trustees.
The islamic crescent and star denotes Turkish Tengri Crescent moon and sun as star.
Its vedic rudra.
satyan6 3 years ago
Comment removed
LacusOdii 3 years ago
A typical ignoramus.
webdawah 3 years ago
The vagina worship relates to the goddess Al-uzza (Venus), one of the three daughters of Allah. The Ka'abah silver vagina framing the meteorite (black stone) is aligned to the planet Venus, according to polytheistic beliefs. Venus (also known as Isis and Issa) was worshipped throughout history in other cultures alternatively as a goddess of war, peace, and fertility. As a female symbol it also relates to the great mother's womb, but was lowered in status by Muhammad to that of Allah (the moon).
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
I'd like to see your references. Any monkey can type once taught to do so.
webdawah 3 years ago
No. You have misunderstood the infinity theorem of Émile Borel. And while it may well be possible for an infinite number of monkeys to type randomly for an infinite amount of time to recreate all works of literature (including the Qur'an), the creativity per se is not existent. The moon god and sun god and vagina and meteor worship et al are, among others, well documented origins of Islam that even a monkey can understand.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
If they are well documented as you claim, why not provide reference?
webdawah 3 years ago
Documented:
1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship.
2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kaabah.
3. Hubal was a moon god.
4 . The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah".
5. Although Islam today is considered to be a monotheist religion, its roots are indelibly pagan.
6. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Kaaba, but reinvented them in monotheistic terms.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
I don't think you understand the meaning of reference. Look at you trying to sound educated, yet you cannot comprehend being asked to provide reference.
1. Has no bearing on Islam
2. You have said nothing new, or anything that deserves applause.
3. So...
4. Al- ilah simply means the god. Anyone who speaks Arabic would refer to their deity as "al-ilah."
5. Read above for the refutation.
6. Read a little about the history of how the Ka'abah was erected, then you won't sound uneducated.
webdawah 3 years ago
To state that moon worship has no bearing on Islam is absurd. All the rest is opacification and denial with no viable refutation. Of all the assertions you make, your allusion to the Kaaba's origins is the most vulnerable.
The parable of Abraham notwithstanding (but you are welcome to provide proof), the Kaaba was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity, and contained 360 idols which either represented the days of the year, or were effigies of the Arabian pantheon.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian peninsula, be they Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj. To keep the peace among the perpetually warring tribes, Mecca was declared a sanctuary where no violence was allowed within 20 miles of the Kaaba. This combat-free zone allowed Mecca to thrive not only as a place of pilgrimage, as a shrine to the three daughters of god, but also as a trading center.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
While praying in the Al-Qiblatain mosque in Medina, Muhammad was ordered by God to change the qibla direction from Jerusalem to Mecca. The strongest theory for this change was the reluctance of the Jews of Medina to accept Muhammad as a prophet.
After Muhammad's return to Mecca in 630 AD, the Muslim community became a political and military force. The Kaaba was re-dedicated as an Islamic house of worship, and all idols except the black stone were destroyed.
The truth shall set you free.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
tkw the truth may set you free,but lies and slander shall forever be a hallmark of your level of ignorance. you have no idea whether you are coming or going.
zam212 3 years ago
Many Jews had embraced Islam before the Qiblah was changed to the first building dedicated to the worship of God. Your theory fails. You need to read history, the life of the Prophet and the Qur'an. Your are very oblivious to the truth. When you find it, I hope it sets you free.
webdawah 3 years ago
This comment does not prove your thesis, you are just repeating what is already known.
webdawah 3 years ago
Qur'an 41:37 Now among His signs are the night and the day, as well as the sun and the moon: [hence,] adore not the sun or the moon, but prostrate yourselves in adoration before God, who has created them - if it is Him whom you [really] worship.
I asked you to provide your references, which you conveniently igored, yet you want proof from me?
webdawah 3 years ago
Just as Muhammad incorporated the pagan veneration of the Kaaba and black stone into Islam, so he incorporated the Sabean times of prayer, Eid, and ritualized fasting. Every Muslim that makes the Hajj, runs between the hills, bestows a kiss on the black stone, is performing pagan rituals, founded on pagan superstitions, sanctioned by Muhammad himself.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
My references for this are the original Hughes Dictionary of Islam (not the recently sanitized Muslim version), the Shorter Ency. of Islam and the Ency. of Islam (E. J. Brill), and 'The Sources of Islam' (Tisdall).
The Qur'an as a source continues to be debated among Muslim scholars themselves, and thus any details of substance remain indefinable, even by Islamic standards.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
Your dishonesty, and disregard for truth has totally blinded you. Read page 218 and 219 of "Dictionary of Islam" by Hughes. Your own sources refute you claims.
webdawah 3 years ago
From Hughes page 256:
At the commencement of Muhammad's mission, It is remarkable that there is scarcely an allusion to the Ka'bah, and this fact, taken with the circumstance that the earliest Qiblah or direction for prayer, was Jerusalem, and not the Ka'bah, seems to imply that Muhammad's strong iconoclastic tendencies did so incline his sympathies to this ancient idol with its Superstitious ceremonies.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
Had the Jews favourably received the new as one who taught the religion of Abraham, to abrogation of that of Moses and Jesus, Jerusalem and not Makkah-would have been the sacred city, and the ancient Rock and not the Ka'bah would have the object of superstitious reverence.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
From Hughes page 258:
We then come to Surah xvii, i, where Muhammad refers to his celebrated night dream of his journey from the Sacred Mosque (al-Masjidu 'l-Haram) at Makkah to the Remote Mosque (al-Masjidu 'l-Aqsa) at Jerusalem. And in this verse we find the Rock at Jerusalem spoken of as "the precinct of which We (God) have blessed, to show him (Muhammad) of our signs," proving that even then the Prophet of Arabiz had his heart fixed on Mount Zion, and not on the Ka'bah.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
Now we see how you contradict your own claims. Maybe the problem is that you can't read or just desperate to make a point. One statement that inculdes Masjid Al Haram, and Masjid Al Aqsa in one breathe just shows how much late in the life of Muhammad(pbuh) this event took place. I might not be able to give the number, but countless Jews had accepted Islam by this time. So your claim that this had anything to do with the Jews is refuted.
webdawah 3 years ago
...But what events according to the Qur'an, hadith, or the seerah can you enumerate to establish your claim? I'm tired of reading your empty theories. Why are you so blind to the truth?
webdawah 3 years ago
Like I said earlier, you would have done an objective research after you have read the history of how the Ka'abah was erected. History of a building does not begin from after the biulding was established. You are not saying anything new.
webdawah 3 years ago
Well, if quoting Islamic scholars and the Qur'an is not proof enough for you, then maybe you need to witness Islam in action -- such as a woman being stoned to death or a girl kicked to death. In any case, if you are a moderate Muslim, whatever that may mean today, then you need to CLEAN YOUR HOUSE before others have to do it for you.
Godspeed.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
You obviously know knothing about Islam. I assume you will believe whatever you want to believe, in spite of whatever you see otherwise. You will never be able to use the Qur'an to support your claim against Islam. Trying to sound like you know what you are saying might work elsewhere, not here.
webdawah 3 years ago
If you say so. Again, Godspeed.
tkwtkwtkw 3 years ago
tkw... you are talking gibberish and utter rubbish.
zam212 3 years ago
wow seeing the picture of the Ka'abah with all those people around it makes me realize how huge it is!!!
wow then Makkah is crazy huge!
great video
mamigordita 4 years ago 2
It will be an arrival that sweeps Muhammadans into hell. No fighting will be required.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
LOL, we'll see about that.
webdawah 4 years ago
Actually, it is the racist black muhammadans that are haters. Not black hindus or black christians or black atheists for that matter. Just the black muhamamdans who have been colonized and enslaved yet again.
Being childish? More like waiting for you to do more than realy on evasion and excuses.
And, while race has nothing to do with my objecitons to muhammadanism, race has everything to do with why YOU became a 'muslim'....lol
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
You have something against "black" people, and you confirm my allegation. I was born into Islam. Racist are not allowed on channel. You have called me names because I'm to good for you. Now you have attacked my race. Good riddance. You Have Been Blocked! :)
webdawah 4 years ago
Also, don't forget Robert Spencer's book ' the Truth About Muhammad' and the website prophetofdoomDOTcom
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Everything on that site has been refuted by too many. Try something original.
webdawah 4 years ago
Keep in mind that many altars in the region were consecrated to Baal-Peor, Hu'Baal [allah] and other pagan Canannite 'gods'. I am very skeptical of extrabiblical declarations of sacrity.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
The Bible is incomplete, it only is for convenient theology. I don't buy that.
webdawah 4 years ago
All I need is the preislamic evidence that proves your claims. I have cited the historical and legitimate placement of Stobe Age altars, per your request. I have also given ample evidence that not EVERY altar was built for the worship of God, but sometimes for the worship of Canaanite Baals [Canaanite/Arab].
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Any altar could have been for God or Baal, as the case may be. No proof from you as to which is from Baal, only allegations. You cannot prove that any altar was built for any purpose except it suits your weak argument.
webdawah 4 years ago
The Bible gives us the locations of altars built for God [cited earlier] and the locations in Palestine where the Baal gods ensnared the Isrealites [Judg 2:11-14; 3:7]. All Mahomet of Mecca did was cast down the images of pagan deities, not the history or nature of your idol worship.
It is important to note that the Baals were Canaanite gods, hence from the descendents of Ishmael. Therefore any altar outside of Isreal must categoricaly be considered pagan.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
"Any altar outside Israel must categorically be considered pagan" Is there anything that can support you assertion from the Bible? Ishmael(pbuh) grew up in Paran, where Mecca is today, the spring that the angel created by striking the ground, still exists today(zamzam). Mount Sinai is north of Paran, in Saudi Arabia of today. All your Canaanite paganism, that you allege has nothing to do with monotheism, plus check yourself and your 3 god doctrine...that's pagan.
webdawah 4 years ago
Mecca is not in Paran. Hagar chose an Egyption wife for Ishmael, so to assert that they lived 700 miles South of the Lavant is laughable. All of these Biblcal personalites lived in the Lavant region and traveled from Ur to the Nile. None of them EVER were in Mecca. Since this is indisputable in preislamic records, your 'zamzam' river is more Muhammadan fiction fabricated in the 7th century by the false prophet from Mecca.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Modern archeological research shows contrary to your "indisputable" records. ZamZam is a spring and still exists. Your Lavant crap has been disproved.
webdawah 4 years ago
Even if [and I am not agreeing with you] Ishmael lived in the area now called Mecca, what preislamic evidence do you have that he built any altars? It all sounds very apocryphal and legendary. Not supported by history.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
What history? Bilabial History?
webdawah 4 years ago
Please make up your mind. Is the Bible historical or theological? You flip from from one personality to another whenever you need to make a convenient attack.
Are we done here?
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
The bible is a book of convenient theology, no flip-flopping.
webdawah 4 years ago
I have addessed singing in the Scripture.
Lets discuss dancing. We praise his holy name with dancing and playing musical instruments [Psa 149:3;150:4]. King David danced before the LORD [II Sam 6:14] and God himself 'turns mourning into dancing [Psa 30:11].
Had enough?
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
I see, these are songs. I don't see any quote of Jews dancing as worship of God.
webdawah 4 years ago
Do you even read the Bible? Or my posts for that matter? Denying truth doesn't make you look smart or godly. Only stupid.
Dancing and worship are so intergal to covenant people that I find it stratling you would be so oblivious.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Is there anything other that the songs of Psalms(which don't) that prove dancing and clapping as a way of worship?
webdawah 4 years ago
Is there anything other than the songs of worship and liturgical chants that prove dancing and clapping are a way of worship? Is THAT your follow up question!?
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Just answer the question, if you can. I asked cos I know you can't.
webdawah 4 years ago
I think by now that singing, dancing and clapping are evident in the OT, and expressed in the NT.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
You have failed to show me a prophet or messenger to worship that way.
webdawah 4 years ago
Mezizah is only performed on infants, not adults. St. Paul, therefore, did not have a penis in his mouth. Your ignnorance of custom is disgusting, but expected with black American Muhammadans.
The word 'Christian' was originally an insult, but, we took it away from the haters and made it a badge of honor.
Jim Jones? St. Paul never killed ANYBODY! So, Jim Jones was much more like your 'prophet' from Mecca! lol...
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Where is your mezizah reference? You are a Christain not a Jew, so back up your claim. I'm not a black American, I'm a Muslim. Keep your racist remarks.
Yeah, Paul killed quite a few Christians and was on his way to kill more when he saw the "blinding light."
webdawah 4 years ago
And about the word "Christian," I'm glad you know its origin. All civilization have called the followers of Jesus(pbuh), Christians. Some even say that the earliest followers were Jewish Christians who still practiced Jewish rites before Paul corrupted the creed. The only place where you find Christians being called a different name is the Qur'an...
webdawah 4 years ago
... So called Christians are called Nazarenes, the Jewish sect that Jesus(pbuh) belonged to. The point is that the word "Christian" is mockery of men by men, but God does not have to stoop to the level of men by doing the same...And does not become men either.
webdawah 4 years ago
Jesus was a Nazarene because he was raised in Nazareth. You are confusing 'Nazarite' with 'Nazarene'. A common mistake among those who should know better. St. Paul was a Nazarite.
Christians have been mocked since day one. Day 60,465 won't be any different, and yet it is we who brought down the Roman Empire, and it is we who will bring doen Muhammadanism. We will do it by being mocked, jailed and killed for the Savior.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Let me ask, can you differenciate between a Nazarene and a Nazarite?
Think before you answer, no sity was known as Nazareth during the time of Jesus(pbuh)..
webdawah 4 years ago
hahhahha....Nazareth was settled since the PrePottery Neolithic Period! It just wasn't on Roman maps and it was too small to be mentioned elsewhere...lol..read some real books on the history of Palestine, and not Muhammadan propaganda.
I think out ALL my comments. You should consider doing the same.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Some real book by Christian apologetics, huh?
Lol, you can't make it stick, the random city chosen to be Nazareth was not even part of Jesus'(pbuh) itinerary. False religion, false doctrine, lies upon lies.
webdawah 4 years ago
Paul didn't kill anybody. Saul was a bounty hunter and a killer before he was 'circumcised in the heart'. You mock his conversion? Typical pagan! Just like the pagans of his own day.
What else would change the heart of Saul the persecutor to Paul the martyr than a visit from the very Christ himself?
There were many witnessess to the blinding light you mock. How many witnessess to the angel 'jabril'? NONE! ZERO! HA!
You are a racist black Muhammadan.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Why do you call me racist, before you get blocked?
Plus your Paul gave conflicting accounts of his 'vision'. He saw the light alone and heard the voice, in another, everyone saw the light but he only got blind.
Tell me where in the Bible that Gabriel was seen by other that ppl he appeared to.
webdawah 4 years ago
You spelled 'illiterate' wrong.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Mitharas bull? You Muhammdans sacrifice CAMELS every year during EID...lol...that makes YOU the Mithraist!
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Nonsense, camels or the blood of camels don't wash sins, guess where that happens...your religion.
webdawah 4 years ago
Camels wash away human sins in my Scripture? Where?! Show me!I am still waiting for you to show me that the Kaaba was built by Abraham! And you want to discuss Biblical theology!?
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Religion and scripture are two different words. Do you not believe that sins wash away sins?...like pagans.
webdawah 4 years ago
Religion is the ritual and ceremonial practice of Scripture. I believe that blood washes away sins.
However, killing a camel during EID won't do it. Either will rubbing your mouth on a meteorite in the desert of Arabia.
What makes you think that blood isn't required?
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Neither of your calims do Muslims believe wash away sins. Only God forgives sins.
If you believe that blood washes away sins, you need to back it up from the OT.
webdawah 4 years ago