Netanyahu - Lieberman / "Transfer" Policy 2

[petersz98]

It all goes to show I think that ethno-centric states don't work wether its an Aryan Germany, White Supremicist Rhodesia, French Algeria, Apartheid South Africa, Jim Crow Southern United States, Loyalist Northern Ireland and Zionist Israel the only one left that has not yet de-colonized.

[metalic699]

i would also argue that two people who claim rights to the same land doesn't work either.. so what do you suggest ?

[petersz98]

So what you are saying if anyone in Israel preaches that Israel should become a democracy and treat all its citizens equally instead of being a Jewish supremicist state, that person will be considered disloyal as they want to cause the "destruction" of the state?

It would be kind of like Martin Luther King being considered a "traitor" for daring to suggest Alabama should stop being a white supremicist state and treat all citizens equally?

[metalic699]

and as i said before.. freedom of speech is an inaliable right.. but there are limits to that as well..everyone is entitled to their opinion but once they start inciting violence as they regularly do at their mousques and schools they are crossing the line. To burn the israeli flag when you are collecting social security from that state is a crime.. and the law is the law.

[metalic699]

to suggest that Israel is not a democracy is ridiculous .. we have Islamic republics who ignores their non Muslims minority . No one has ever asked them to change their constitution based on the sharia. Israel although it's secular in its ruling is Jewish first they cannot change it to please people. and Minorities have equal rights.

[petersz98]

Israel is not a democracy it is an ethnocracy like South Africa used to be under White rule. An ethnocracy is where only one ethnic group has full democratic and civil rights and not others others. Those with Jewish Nationality have first class citizenship those with non-Jewish nationality have second class citizenship. The Israeli Supreme Court refuses to recognize Israeli citizenship, otherwise it would have to treat everyone equally and Israel does not have a Constitution to enforce equality.

[metalic699]

i would agree that Jew and Non-Jew are not the same in Israel.. but i would not clasify the minorities as second class citizens they are represented accordingly in the knesset and they are 100% equal in every way when it comes to democratic and civil liberties with the exception of a few things that are related to Jewish Law.. such as conversion & marriage etc... i would argue that in many instances Jews are discriminated against in favor of arab minorities such as the recent building freeze

[petersz98]

What utter nonsense! 93% of the land is for Jews only. Parties that canvas that Israel should become a democracy with a Constitution and equal rights are banned from the Knesset. There are at least 20 racist laws that discriminate against Arabs. You don't know what you are talking about.

[metalic699]

first of all you should know that personally i believe that 100% of the land should be for Jews only but if were talking reality i can tell you that is not true a muslim can purchase land anywhere in the state of israel. however if a palestinian sells land to a jew it carries the death penalty under the current Hamas government. furthermore i would like to see what you consider racist .. name 1 of these 20 laws that you mention and i will show you how it isnt

[petersz98]

15% of land is owned by the Jewish National Fund a racist organisation that leases land only to Jews. Most of the rest is controlled by the Israeli Land Authority 50% of administrators are appointed by the JNF and almost never lease land to Arabs. Plus 50% of land in Israel is still legally owned by Palestinians its just simply been stolen. Its no different than in say South africa where Whites were allocated 87% of the land and non-Whites 17% of the land. Israel is an apartheid state!

[metalic699]

Any Muslim from any country can go to Israel and Buy land wherever he wants.. Just like in any other place on the globe he can be rejected for any reason... the Jews are the ones that are restricted from buying land on property that is in "dispute" why are you okey with discriminating against jews ?

[metalic699]

there is no law that states Muslims cant buy land in the state of Israel.. that is an absolute lie ... Although I think it would be a great Idea if they did..I dont think Israel should be democratic in every sense of the word.

[metalic699]

there is a diffrence between racist discrimination and preserving a jewish identity.. Israel is the Jewish State and they are required to abide by jewish law..

[petersz98]

Well South Africans said the same thing!

Apartheid was not racist it was to preserve a White majority in South Africa.

what an idiotic argument!

[metalic699]

first of all there is no white majority in South Africa and not to justify the oppression of blacks ( just noting a coincidence) South Africa used to be a world power and they have subsequently become a third world nation..

[petersz98]

There are twice as many Palestinians as Israelis. Israelis are also a minority. South Africa was never a world power economically. But it is a resource rich country. You cannot buy land in Israel unless you are Jewish for the reasons I explained.

[metalic699]

Im not talking about Palestinian refugees .. im talking about Muslim Israelis (1.2 Million ) ..furthermore i cant understand how you can argue for democracy for one and not the other.. im sure you had no problem with the 8,000 jews that were evicted from Gaza simply because they were jews isnt that racist ?

[petersz98]

Arab Israelis only own 2% of the land they use to own 25% but it has been stolen from them. They cannot buy land in Israel they cannot even get permission to build, hence the chronic overcrowding and ghettos that Israeli Arabs are forced to live in. The settlers in Gaza were squatters on land that did not legally belong to them so they were not "evicted".

[metalic699]

HAHA... for a second i thought i was talking to someone who knew something about the arab israeli conflict.. Not only are you biased but you are a liar.. the land that these settlers lived on was uninhabited they developed it from desert and marsh fields.. and if you want to talk from a legal perspective they own it through adverse possession which exists in any democracy.. the bottom line is that you are in favor of whatever favors your cause.. you dont care about whats right

[petersz98]

Absolutely and totally WRONG. Gaza has extremely fertile land it use to have a succesful citrus export industry to Europe even before Israel came into existence by Palestinian farmers. A mere 8000 settlers stole 25% of the land of Gaza and the rest of the million of the inhabitants were crammed into the rest. The setllers even used Palestinian labour paying them a pittance. There has never a Jewish presence in Gaza of any significance until the settlers came along.

[metalic699]

thats why Gaza is filled with Jewish Archaeology and is mentioned in numerous jewish texts dating as far back as the time of jesus... the land i was referring to was the land that the jews lived on .. not the land that the arabs occupied during jewish absence.. you are a deceiver

[petersz98]

Gaza is not filled with Jewish archaelogy and it has not been part of any Jewish state save for for brief rule by the Israelites. Read the Bible Gaza is where the Philistines lived as in the story about Sampson who was a Philistine.

[metalic699]

I am very familiar with the bible sir and the area os Azza was given to the tribe of Judah as mentioned in the book of Joshuah.. Azza was a jewish city throughout the Israelite kingdom and was a center of jewish study during the Roman occupation of Judea all the way through the Ottoman empire... As i have said before you are a deceiver.

[metalic699]

and most of the Arabs that live in Gaza came there during the 1920's from Egypt..

[petersz98]

Your a nutcase, next your going to tell me most Palestinians come from outer space! Don't be such an idiot. Gaza City is 5000 years.

[metalic699]

I presume that you are trying to make some kind of connection between the ancient philistines and the Palestinians which would not only be ridiculous but impossible.. but the numbers clearly show that most of the Arabs living in Israel came during the 1920's to escape economic hardships in their own countries.. this is not my imagination this is documented fact.. you can check the census for yourself.. both the Ottomans and the British kept very good records.

[petersz98]

Palestinians are not descendents of the Philistines(they had red hair and came from Greece) they are descendents of the Israelites. Who said that migh you ask, it was none other than David Ben-Gurion!

[metalic699]

You come up with statistics that have no credibility.. you cry foul play and yet you practice the same tactics. Ive seen your other postings .. all you do is defame the state of israel and make pointless comparisons that have no Merit.. dont know why i wasted so much time talking with you.

[petersz98]

Israel is a racist, apartheid, colonial state. It is not me who says but such notable people as Jimmy Carter, John Duggard, Bishop Tutu and Ronnie Kassrils.

[metalic699]

you are the racist.. not israel which has given more to peace then they are entitled to give.

[metalic699]

South Africa has gone through a downward spiral from being a respected country with global influence to a joke.

[metalic699]

Look its very simple.. either you are loyal to the state you live in or you should be deported... if you display hostility towards the state you live in you should be deported... if you commit treason against the state you live in you should be executed... this should apply to any country .. including Israel... whats so wrong with that ?

[petersz98]

metalic699

I for example could say Tony Blair is a war criminal, a liar, a cheat and a conman in the country where I live (which he is). No one is going to accuse me of being "disloyal". A fascist state is where differences of opinion are not allowed in the way a state is governed. Lieberman with his No Loyalty No citizenship policy is clearly a fascist policy. Basically he is saying anyone who disagrees with him will get booted out of the country. Are you a fascist as well?

[metalic699]

you are distorting the No Loyalty No citizenship policy.. freedom of speech is a fundamental factor in Israeli society.. no one said you cant state your opinion or your dislike of individuals or policy.. but when you preach the destruction of the country you live in or encourage violence and support terrorism its a different matter wouldn't you agree? when you become a citizen of the US you have to take the pledge of pledge of allegiance .. is that fascism ?

[petersz98]

No I am not in no democracy in the entire world does a state strip people of citizenship. Citizenship is considered inaliable in a democracy. What Lieberman proposes is that only those who accept Israel as a Jewish state can have citizenship and those who want Israel to be a democracy and give equal rights to its citizens will have their citizenship revoked. It's really just a thinly veiled policy to expel Israeli Arabs from Israel on the trumped up charges of the being "disloyal".

[metalic699]

First of all democracies strip people of citizenship all the time.. It is not an inalienable right but rather a privilege.. With that being said I believe that Israel was founded as the Jewish State and it is a religious democracy not a secular democracy.. So therefore it is perfectly legitimate for Israel to require loyalty to the Jewish State just as it would be legitimate for Jordan or Egypt to require loyalty which are both Islamic states.

[metalic699]

All citizens of Israel are equal citizens, with equal benefits .. however there are certain restrictions, which are with accordance to Jewish Law, that must be preserved to maintain a Jewish identity.

[petersz98]

All citizens of Israel are not equal. It is defined as a Jewish state which means none Jewish people are second class citizens. You have just contradicted yourself by saying "there need to be certain restrictions". What if the United States had certain "restrictions" in order to keep itself as a White state or a Christian state but still claimed itself to be a democracy?

[metalic699]

ok so we agree that the real Palestinians are the jews.. so whats with all this imaginary Palestinian nation that never existed prior to the 1960's ? i welcome any muslim that wants to live in israel in peace and loyalty as an equal to any jew .. and so do most israelis so whats the problem.

[petersz98]

Algeria, Congo, Guatamale and Panama never existed until the 20th century as independent states also none of these countries has a language or culture that differentiates from surrounding countries. Does that mean anyone can colonize these countries and kick its inhabitants out on the grounds that they have never existed as independents states until the 20th century?

[metalic699]

I can also add.. Jordan, Syria, India and Pakistan to your list. The difference is that non of the countries on your list are challenging a pre-existing nation its rights to live on their land.. I dont deny that arabs lived in modern israel during the british mandate or the ottoman empire or perhaps prior to that.. but the fact of the matter is that the land was always the homeland of the jews while the arabs lived throught the arabian peninsula

[petersz98]

Does that mean say a group of Irish Celts could claim the right to the whole of France because it use to be populated by Celtic tribes who were killed or expelled by the Romans and renamed the country from Gaul to France and some fled to Ireland? Also these Irish Celts could claim Celtic people have always lived in France even today in Brittany so the whole country is rightfully theirs and does not belong to the non-Celtic population of France?

[metalic699]

Habibi .. the Celtic tribes are extinct they are no longer around ... the Irish have Ireland and the French have France... they gained these modern borders through war.... the Jews are the oldest nation on the planet and they have and always had a homeland called israel.. and they are the only idiots that give back land they win in war... yet the world calls us evil zionist nazi's .. i dont understand your argument.

[petersz98]

No they are not extinct. I should know in my country we have 3 million of them they are called Welsh and many speak Welsh a Celtic language. A Welsh speaking person could go to Britany in Northern France and if that person spoke Breton they would be able to communicate with each other. Until the 19th century most Irish people spoke Gaelic a Celtic language the Irish are a Celtic people.

[metalic699]

haha thats fine.. but their cultural identity disappeared when they adapted Christianity and they subsequently became Irish and french.. with your logic you could argue that the Romans are still around because the church still speaks Latin.. well the Roman Empire no longer exists.. the Romans are extinct and they are now called Italians... but the Jews are still around my friend.. they outlived every civilization since ancient Egypt and they live in Israel.

[petersz98]

What happens to Jewish people who are atheists, does that mean they are no longer Jewish and will eventually loose their Jewish identity? If a Jewish person converts to Christianity or Bhuddism are they still a Jew. Julia Neuberger a British Rabbi says that a person cannot be a Jew and a Christian at the same time. But doesn't that just proove that Judaism is in fact just a religion?

[metalic699]

Jewish law stipulates that a Jew is someone who is born to a Jewish mother.. this means that they can never get rid of their identity.. they will always be Jewish because Judaism is not just a religion but also an ethnicity. even hitler knew this which is why he killed anyone that was even a fraction jewish..

[petersz98]

But Israel allows people in to Israel even if only one of their grandparents are Jewish. So it allows people into Israel even if they are not really Jewish such as a third of immigrants from the Soviet Union who are often Christians and Ethiopians who's claim to Judaism is extremely dubious!

[metalic699]

I agree and i think its a mistake... this is a political crime organized by the left because many of the Russian immigrants have liberal and leftist mind sets which adds votes to their parties.. I disagree with it and as i have said before i disagree with many israeli policies.

[petersz98]

I think a lot of these right-wing nutters in Israel are those from the Soviet Union like Leiberman. I mean what is Jewish about him I bet he has hardly ever been in a synagogue in his entire life.

[metalic699]

actually you would be surprised .. most of the russians in israel vote with the left because they want to liberalize the country .. they only started voting right after the intifadas started because they remember the pogroms they suffered and they understand the arabs want to kill them.. as far as lieberman is concerned he is despised by most religious jews for trying to change the marriage laws.. which would make it easier for non jews .. but they all agree with his other polocies as do I.

[petersz98]

There is no Left in Israel.

[metalic699]

Yes i know.. according to you all Israelis are like the Nazi's .. i remember.. you hate Jews and that's the bottom line .. the sad reality is that you don't even know why you hate them.. and i doubt you ever met a real Jew in your life..

[petersz98]

Well that is where you are wrong I grew up in a town where there is a large Jewish community, there were Jewish children in the first and secondary school I went to and we lived right next door to a Jewish family for many years so I think I know quite a lot about them. In any case I suspect many Jews in the West are now distancing themselves from Israel. In any case do you know any Palestinians I must say I don't know any of them personally. I suppose you think that they are all terrorists.

[metalic699]

I know many Muslims and i know quite a few Israeli Arabs.. and no i do not think they are all terrorists.. i know many Israeli Arabs that support Israel and even served in the army fighting against the terrorists.however i think that the vast majority of Palestinians have been subjected to incredible propaganda over the last 30 years and as a result there are alot of palestinians who think its ok to blow up civilian buses and cafes.. They voted in Hamas didnt they? so i view them as a threat

[petersz98]

I think it is a bit rich blaming Palestinians voting for Hamas when the present Israeli Government which can only be described as Fascist is very hypocritical. Someone like Lieberman clearly a Fascist would never be allowed in Government in any democracy. The guy is simply a complete criminal, don't believe me? He has been charged for beating a child lives on an illegal settlement is under investigation for fraud and is a former meber of the terroist organisation Kach!

[metalic699]

I would disagree that Liberman is a fascist.. I would call him a realist.. unlike most israeli poloticians he realizes that the palestinians dont want pre 1967 borders .. they want the whole country....and i say that the Palestinians brought cast lead on themselves with their home made rockets.. and i also say that Kahane was 100% right with everything he predicted and said..

[metalic699]

so why do you hate Jews?

[petersz98]

I don't hate Jews. As for Israeli Arabs that you claim you know and serve in the military and support Israel, I suspect that they are mostly Druze. The vast majority of Palestinians with Israeli citizenship would never serve in the military and are not allowed to anyway and I suspect you don't know any of these people. I think it is the exact opposite Israelis are brainwashed to hate Arabs. We saw this most clearly in the war in Gaza the obscene graffitti the shooting of civilians the t-shirts.

[metalic699]

why would Israelis hate israeli arabs but like the Druze ? what is so radically different about the two.. They are both arabs, they look the same , dress the same , make the same food ( delicious if i may add) etc. etc... I will answer you. the druze although they are muslims have loyalty to the state and display no hostility towards other citizens... they do not teach their kids to blow themselves up in cafe's and then hand out candy to honor their new martyr.

[metalic699]

As i said before .. he is born to a jewish mother therefore he is jewish.. that does not mean that all his polocies are jewish.. many of them are not.. but i think he has very logical polocies with regard to the israeli palestinian conflict.

[metalic699]

and Julia Neuberger is not an orthodox rabbi nor does she represent mainstream judaism.. she is a confused individual as judaism does not permit female rabbi's... its an oxymoron.

[petersz98]

Why is Julia Neuberger a confused individual and aren't you being sexist. I mean we've had female priests in Protestant churches for quite some time now admittedly the Catholics are dragging their feet about it. I suppose Judaism is a sexist religion don't women have to seperated from males in the synagogue or something.

[metalic699]

women play very important roles in Judaism and i wouldn't call it sexist.. men have certain roles to play and women also have certain roles to play.. and yes we separate women and men during prayer because the womans beauty may be distracting and we dont want to be distracted when we are praying to the almighty.. i dont see how thats sexist

[metalic699]

today people think that Palestinian is a nationality well its not because Palestine never existed they were Arabs living in Judea and ancient israel. and as far as im concerned they can still live there as long as they are loyal to the state.. if they want to wage jihad then they should be killed or sent to Jordan .. if they want to live in peace the i say Sallam Alechum

[petersz98]

Was Abraham a Jew or an Arab? If he was an Arab and God promised him the "Land of Israel" does that mean Israel has no legitimacy and it really belongs to the Arabs? Does that mean that God is a racist? Should England belong only to English people? How do you decide what is an English person or a Jewish person?

[metalic699]

God promised the land of Israel to the children of Jacob who's name was later changed to Israel.. so children of Israel = Children of Jacob... Son of Issac .. Son of Abraham... this is Gods words not mine.

[petersz98]

Are their any precise maps of what are the borders of the "Land of Israel". Is that why Israel has never defined what its borders are and keeps going to war with its neighbours? I mean If God drew the borders there is no arguing but it might help peace in the middle east if Israel let the rest of the world know what they are!

[metalic699]

sure .. the precise borders are mentioned in the bible and they are actually larger than the current map of israel.. But israel is not intrested in those lands.. because we dont want war... israel only wants the land it has now.. some of which it gained from the wars which the arabs started.. and as you know it gave lots of it back for the sake of peace

[petersz98]

Yes Israel gave back a bit of desert back to Egypt which belonged to Egypt in the first place!

[metalic699]

habibi .. if the israel's wanted to they could have taken the suez canal as well .. and kept it .. and they could have expanded all the way to damascus and aman and trippled their territory..but they have no use for land if there is no peace .. whats the point

[petersz98]

Well Israel hasn't got peace yet it still holds on to land it regards as part of the "Land of Israel" so you have just contradicted yourself. If a country denies native people under its rule voting rights or the right to self-determination because they are the wrong race isn't that like the Old South Africa when it was under Apartheid rule?

[metalic699]

first of all israel does not deny Muslim Israeli citizens voting rights nor does it deny Christians voting rights nor anyone else that is a citizen of the state.. this is false.. second ill ask you a better question.. why is it that there are millions of palestinians refugees living in jordan worse then in israel.. why havent they recieved jordanian citizenship and treated as equals.

[petersz98]

Well actually Palestinian refugees in Jordan do have Jordanian citizenship and can vote. Queen Rania(a very beautiful woman I might say) who is the wife of King Abdullah is Palestinian and I think some Prime Ministers of Jordan have also been Palestinian.

[metalic699]

this is misleading .. there is 2 million palestnian refugees and only a small percent have citizenships.. furthermore many of them had their citizenship revoked this year because jordan is affraid to make them permenant residents.. the reason is so they can keep the refugee status and hope that one day they can send them all to israel.

[petersz98]

95% of Palestinian refugees in Jordan have Jordanian citizenship. I don't know where you are getting your facts from. In Lebanon no Palestinian refugees are allowed citizenship or even residency.

[metalic699]

i love how you wont address anything that's actually relevant to the conversation.. And you are wrong.. i suggest you do your research properly its more like 15%

[petersz98]

The vast majority of Palestinian refugees have citizenship in Jordan I was looking up figures for 1997 so it might have changed slightlt since then. The others have residency. Mostly refugees from Gaza don't have citizenship.

[metalic699]

wikipedia sites a source from former UNRWA chief-attorney James G. Lindsay which states that only 167,000 out of 2 million have citizenship. and that in July of 2009 40,000 of them had their citizenship revoked. I also remember reading about it in the AP

[metalic699]

but yes Queen Rania is very beautiful indeed. i think it would be great if the rest of the Palestinians that hate Jews and hate Israel would move to Jordan and be with their queen and their fellow arabs

[metalic699]

and i ask you can a jew move to mecca build a house and start a business?? the answer is no.. why not ? because it is a muslim country and it has muslim rules .. you dont have a problem with that do u

[petersz98]

If you read the Bible how many times does the word Jew or Jewish appear. In one book Esher which is very late. otherwise it refers to Israelites, Canaanites, Samaritans or Judeans. There are a few hundred Samaritans left mainly in Nablus are they Jews or Palestinians?

[metalic699]

the bible refers to Bnei Israel " the children of israel" who as you know is another name for the children of Jacob ... The Jews.. but you bring up something very interesting. i actually just read a very interesting article that says that they have genetic evidence that a large majority of Palestinians and beduins living in israek are actually jews who converted to islam.. this makes the conflict even more sad.

[petersz98]

Even Ben-Gurion believed Palestinian Arabs were descendents of the Judeans(its in a book he wrote) the Romans didn't manage to kick that many out. Apparently Palestinian Arabic contains many Aramaic and even Hebrew words especially relating to agriculture not found in other dialects. It's kind of like Northern Ireland both communities are racially similar that is Celtic but their different religions make them hate each other for some reason!

[metalic699]

whats with you and Ben-Gurion.. i am Jewish and i couldn't care less what he said.. he doesnt speak for jews.. im sure he said many things that are true and many things that are wrong.. he was only human

[petersz98]

Well Ben-Gurion is the Israeli George Washington so he shaped the state of Israel and its philosophy more than any other person.

[metalic699]

I rather call them Arabs .. because Palestinians didn't exist until the 1960's when Arafat the genius decided to name a bunch of Arabs Palestinians.. whats the difference between a Jordanian and a Palestinian? nothing just the name... the real Palestinians are the jews.

[metalic699]

So i also think that transfer is the only solution.. If the arabs actually wanted peace there would have been peace a long time ago.. but the reality is that they dont.. one only needs to look at the hebron massacre of 1929, way before the so called occupation to see where the arab heart truly lies.. and that is with killing every jew they can get their hands on... We jews are more merciful well give 300k to every family that moves to jordan.. then everyone will be happy :)

[metalic699]

I would also like to note that the israelis didn't transfer anyone in 1948, that is a lie, the 5 arab governments that launched the unprovoked war persuaded most of the arabs to leave with the assurance that they will come back once all the jews are pushed into the sea. Unfortunately for the arabs the israelis won the war of independence. the arabs that decided to stay are still living in israel today and enjoy full citizenship and rights. and they probably live better than 1/2 the muslim world

[petersz98]

To be a Nakba denier is to be as ignorant as a Holocaust denier. Get a life get an education!

[metalic699]

are you suggesting that the Israelis started the war of 1948 ? because the history i read clearly states that the Jews agreed and signed the UN partition plan and that it was the surrounding Arabs] states that rejected it and started the war.. if the Arabs didn't start the war the Palestinians would not only have a country of their own but it would be twice as big as what they are currently negotiating.

[petersz98]

This shows how ignorant you are! The war did not start in 1948 it started in 1947 fool. It started when Zionists terrorists started masacering and expelling unarmed Palestinian civilians. 300000 were expelled before any Arab armies entered the war. The city of Jaffa of some 90000 people fell to the Zionists 2 days before Ben-Gurion declared Independence. Its refugees fled by boats and to this day most are still in Gaza.

[metalic699]

i did not make reference of the wars beginning or end .. i simply referred to the war of 1948 which is an accurate statement.

[petersz98]

Also the Zionists never accepted partition. "We shall accept partition then later raise an army and take over the rest of the country" quote by Ben-Gurion. Also the vote in the UN was rigged it had to be postponed twice in order to get a majority after the US had to blackmail many countries like France to vote yes otherwise their aid money would be cut off.

[metalic699]

can you please show a source for this fabricated Ben Gurion quote ? with your historical education i venture to say that you also believe that Egypt won the 6 day war... and if you claim that the the arabs were the victims and the war started in 1947 then what do you make of the 1927 massacre of Hebron ? what "occupation" existed then ?

[metalic699]

i meant to say Hebron massacre of 1929.. sorry

[petersz98]

No problem. Here's the exact quote by Ben-Gurion:-

"I am satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel."

And here are the references you can check yourself:-

"One Palestine Complete" on Page 403

by Tom Segev

and

"Expulsion of the Palestinians" on Page 107

by Nur Masalha

Satisfied!

[metalic699]

I dont know if these sources are credible but even if the quote is true.. it doesnt change the fact that the israelis excepted the partition plan.. and it was the arabs that declared war immediatly after that.. I am also curious as to why you wont address my question of the 1929 Hebron Massacre.. i only bring it up because i believe that it is relevant to illustrate the arab contempt for jews way before the so called "occupation" was even an issue.

[petersz98]

Well the interesting thing about the Hebron massacre is that many of the survivors of the masssacre were protected and saved by Arabs. Also as I keep saying the chronology is wrong the war started in 1947 by the Zionists not as commonly believed in 1948. The Arab armies didn't invade and try to destroy Israel becuase it didn't exist yet and could not have existed without first expelling the natives who were two thirds of the population.

[metalic699]

your distortion of history is ridiculous .. i suppose that israel started the war in 1956 as well and in 1967 and in 1973 and in 1982 ? and i suppose you also think that suicide bombers blowing up buses in jerusalem and the rocket attacks from Gaza is just a form of resistance.. and not blatant terrorism.the arabs have 22 states the jews have 1 ..

[petersz98]

Actually your right Israel started every single war since 1947 with the one exception of 1973 when Egypt and Syria started a war to get back land that belonged to them and was captured in 1967.

[metalic699]

im curious about your thoughts about the 900,000 jewish refugees from arabs lands that all moved to israel.. the ones that after living as second class citizens for hundreds of years got their land and possessions confiscated. what about them ?

[petersz98]

Most Jews from Arab countries emigrated to Israel or other countries like France they were mostly not expelled. Israel desperately needed them in the early days but they faced and still face racism and descrimination from European Jews. Ben-Gurion refered to Arab Jews as little better than "savages". Many were sprayed with DDT and had their children kidnapped and taken away from them. They have a second class status in Israel behind European Jews.

[metalic699]

Like my family which comes from Iraq .. most jews from arab countries were forced to leave after the state of israel was created bceuase they faced too much hostility and they were afraid for their lives. they left everything behind and moved to their homeland.. and second we jews dont call eachother savages and we view eachother as equals.. 1/2 the knesset is comprised of jews from arab lands

[petersz98]

Iraqi Jews were forced out of Iraq by Zionist terrorists who were behind many of the the bombings in synagogues to "encourage" them to go to Israel. Look at the historical facts. Also there have been may Arab Christians who have left Arab countries for the West. Most Arab Americans are Christian. No one claims they were ethnically cleansed with the one exception of Palestinian Christians which were thrown out by Israel. I'm afraid Ben-Gurion did refer to Arab Jews as little better than savages.

[metalic699]

are you telling me i dont know my own history.. that my grandparents lied to me ? You telling me that my great uncle and 1/2 his family wasnt killed by an arab mob in the 1950's? that it was israelis ? dude how can you believe this stuff .. do you actually believe that israel is some sort of al quida ?

[petersz98]

"About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs". quote by Naeim Giladi Iraqi Jew who now lives in the USA. He has writen a book about how the world's most ancient Jewish civilisation going back some 3000 years to the Babylonian exile was completely destroyed by the Zionists. Check it out its called "Ben- Gurion's scandels". Zionism truly is pure evil, I hope you now see.

[metalic699]

Habibi.. Zionism is Judaism ... every day jews pray 3 times a day facing Jerusalem.. after every meal we pray to rebuild Jerusalem and the word Zion is mentioned hundreds of times in our prayers.. just because you read a questionable book about one guys opinion it doesnt make it true.. also i can tell u that to claim the jews killed their own people and blew up their own temples is ridiculous.. only muslims kill their own people.. we dont do that.

[petersz98]

Well in fact you do kill each other the bombing of the King David Hotel in the 1940s killed many Jews and who did that? It was Menachem Begin later to become Prime Minister. Zionism is not Judaism, just as Nazism is not Christianity!

Both Zionisn and Nazism are evil racist ideologies you only have to look at the recent events in Gaza to realize that I mean the Zionists even used poisonous gas(white phosphorous ) against defenceless civilians.

[petersz98]

Well you make an even better argument for claiming Iraq belongs to the Jews. I mean it is where Abraham comes from, where the Talmud was written and it was the oldest continuous Jewish civilisation in the world? So why not go to war and claim a right to Iraq and kick out all Iraqis?

[metalic699]

bceause the bible does not say that God gave iraq to the jews.. the bible says god gave the land of israel to the jews. and the iraqi jews came to iraq in exile after Nebuchadnezzar kind of babylon destroyed israel

[metalic699]

and FYI its the second oldest continuous jewish civilization .. right after jerusalem and Tzfat in israel.

[metalic699]

you dont understand zionism habibi.. you obviously dont know much about it.. and you are clearly influenced by propaganda videos.. zionism is an ideology with the idea that the jews should resettle their ancient homeland called israel this is 100% judaism. yes there were many secular zionists in its early foundation that used this to promote other agendas but the core principles are jewish.

[petersz98]

First of all Zionism up until the 1930s was an insignificant movement In Judaism especially amongst Orthodox and religous Jews and vitually none existent in middle east Jews. In any case the Zionists considered many places such as Argentina and Uganda as a homeland. This prooves it was a colonial settler movement no different than others which lead to expulsion and extermination of native people's by European colonial settlers.

[metalic699]

i agree with the above statement.. the problem is that you are confusing zionsim the secular movement which did infact start in the 1930's and the zionism of the religious . the seculars took initiative on this issue but ignored the rest of their religious duties.. this is why the religious opposed the Zionists of the 30's .. but the religious never opposed the idea of setteling the jewish land because its a religious duty.

[metalic699]

i dont agree with every israeli policy.. but the problem you have with Zionism is really a problem you have with Judaism.. because according to Judaism this land belongs to the jews. the arabs have 22 countries the jews only have one.. so the solution is simple either the arabs can live in peace in israel with loyalty to the jewish state or they must leave.. if i was to move back to iraq i would have to do the same thing.. live under sharia law..

[metalic699]

the israeli Palestinian conflict is not about dry land and olive trees .. its a religious war instigated by fundamental islam. Furthermore if you will look back at history to the 1940-10950's you will see that the arab countries had no problem kicking out 900,000 jews from their countries and confiscating all their possessions.

[davidqdavidqdavid]

transfer is the best solution to end this conflict

[alaqsa81090speaks]

Hi DavidQ - Thanks for the comment - I disagree - It is a violation of international and Israeli law - It will prove that Israel is not democratic. It will provoke more hate. It will prove that Israel can not exist without expelling people and taking their land. Israel must evacuate all settlements and turn them over to Palestinian refugees from Lebanon and Syria. Compensate the rest of the refugeess with a war reparations fund. Allow aid orgs. to feed refugees in Gaza. And stop the massacres.

[alaqsa81090speaks]

Additionally "transfer" your solution, is what created hate for Israel in the first place. Had you not "tranfered" over 1million Palestinians in ´48 and another 500,000 in ´67 there would be no conflict with Gaza - WB - and front line states. "Transfering" more will not solve your problems. It is the root of the cancer which is destroying you as "a people". DO NOT FALL INTO DENAIL.COME TO TERMS WITH YOUR PROBLEMS AND DO NOT PROJECT THEM ONTO OTHERS.THAT IS WHAT IS DESTROYING ISRAEL- NOT ISLAM