What does it mean practically to keep the Sabbath holy?

[too4ny]

'christian's sabbath'? - That's a new one - I never saw any reference in the Bible to 'christian sabbath' or 'muslim sabbath' or 'pagan sabbath' - pls leave sabbath as sabbath - plain!

[thenetrider7]

Mr. Piper is deceiving people, by saying the primary church kept sunday as sabat day and that keeping the sabat is not mandatory for a christian. Read your Bibles people, the worship day remained saturday and no one dared to question keeping one of the 10 commandements. Sunday worship in the christian church was imposed by emperor Constantin in the year 365 a.C., nothing to do with Christ's wishes.

[Zectroy]

@thenetrider7 I totally agree with you that the Sabbath day is Saturday. 1 and a half a month ago for three months I have been struggling with the question "Should we keep Sunday or Saturday holy" out of all the answers, out of every single answers that were pages long and paragraphs there was one person who simply had the best answer. He said, "Read the 10 commandments :)" Lol.

[Jondree]

You can not give me a reason for your reasoning that you've discovered over the course of your life, and that man has discovered over the centuries.

Thus your reason has no reason

Sounds a bit unreasonable to me

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I only found these posts by accident; you didn't address them.

My basis for morality is not the ten commandments or the words of the Bible - that would be absurd, because those things are primitive and immoral.

It is my conscience and my reason.

The logic and reason evolve - everything evolves, even religions evolved and diverge, and continue to do so.

We evolve, one day to rid ourselves of this stuff!

You sound a bit more clarified than when we started.

Peace.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe You're not understanding my question It is not how do you have reason It is where does reason come from? There was reason before people were here We just slowly discover more and more of it But we're discovering it The order and structure of morality and all the knowledge of the universe they predate us So where did they come from? You can not give me a reason for the very reasoning you try to argue against me with You have no basis Thus what your saying just keeps falling apart

[Jondree]

but where does reason come from?

Logic was here before we were

Some of us have discovered more of it over the centuries

But the math of physics was there before us

The reason and that makes the universe was there before us

So where does this reason come from?

Why is a circle always a circle?

and the next number of Pi, there is always another number in the sequence yet to be discovered, always another bit of logical structure that was there before we were

Where does this reason come from?

[KalinskiDJ]

@Jondree If logic was here before we were, then god is logic and everything else that we "evolve" to understand. Adam & Eve would quite easily be able to use a keyboard or a blender or a lighter, if the things were at hand. Our knowledge is only expanding because more resources become available to us. Logic is not an issue in any form of life. A circle is a circle because god made it a circle....its simple. Dont strain yourself searchin for reason and logic, just repent and have faith.

[Jondree]

I wasn't sure if you would understand

also I watched Hitchen's

my basis for morality is not the ten commandments or the words of the Bible

It is my conscience and my reason

Which the Bible makes a note on this that the laws of God are written on the hearts of men

Now these laws, your morality as well is included in this, was here before we were here...before man existed it was wrong to steal, to destroy life, and to tell lies...my basis for where these came from is God...you could say reason

[Jondree]

Or it sounds like it is, maybe this isn't how you think

but this is what I've gathered

You find morality by means that something is good or bad

but without any universal reference point to judge the other points by

You find life to be precious, but it's purpose is whatever you want it to be

Which is nice everyone has there own path

But no one can have a path of theism, because you've decided that's immoral with you judgement

Stop pushing your beliefs on people, find a reason for what you believe

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I don't understand your line of questioning - genuinely.

I beg you to spend 2:27 looking at "christopher hitchens morality" on YTub - he explains, far more eloquently than I, the POV I am trying to put over.

If you can stand it, then look at "best of hitchslap" (15mins) - all his other stuff and anything at all by ZOMGitsCriss who is brilliant and eminently watchable.

I'm not really a pusher, I don't think. ;-)

[Jondree]

What reason do you have for leaving a legacy? What gives you that drive? You still haven't answered me So far from what you've told me You live just because and you judge people based on morals just because Yet you have no reason for them Your worldview as far as I can tell does not support a reason You even said earlier that you don't listen to things that outrage reason When so far you have not given me a reason Not even a reason for your reason So far it all seems to base off what you think

[Jondree]

Next Abraham did not believe God would let him kill his son He had already promised to bring a nation out of Issac So if God really wanted Issac dead He would be breaking his promise Which God never does break promises God told him to offer Issac as a sacrifice Just to offer Not to kill him He did offer and God stopped him before he could commit the sin and then provided a goat instead

[courag1]

@Jondree Actually I believe that there was a ram which was caught by its horns and not a goat.

[Jondree]

@courag1

A male goat can be called a ram

and it's horns being caught is how God provided the ram

This is an issue of semantics

I used less specifics

[StrumstickJoe]

@courag1 And there's some dispute about the name of the son, also.

I think the truth probably is that the whole story is made up. Don't you?

We today would certainly not believe that a deity would get involved in such an episode, would we? I mean - sacrifice??? are we not way beyond that?

And are we not beyond believing in a creator/invigilator/prayer answerer?

We should be - and hey! Some of us are!!

[courag1]

@StrumstickJoe It really doesn't matter what our opinion is on the matter. Our opinion does not change history. In regards to God, we are the ones who must to the changing. We are not perfect, He is.

[StrumstickJoe]

@courag1 Our opinions are the most important things it the world. Our dreams and hopes make the world what it is today (even though we've let down a lot of our kind). History is only important to learn positive lessons from. Myths and legends and primitive, superstitious stories have no place in the mainstream of our thoughts today. Let's shed them completely.

God is not.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

If you die and everything fades away in the end

What is your basis for morals?

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe If I die, and then go to heaven - how does that make my life here more important? That's where you made the mistake Heaven doesn't make a life more important My faith is not about the importance of my life It's about showing the importance of God I would think the creator would be important to the creation Worshiping God constantly is not a bad thing To get caught up in how amazing God is You would be in constant delight Total awe, finding more and more to enjoy never tiring

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

You just said opinions were the most important thing in the world

Thats foolish, and no I'm not insulting you

It simply is, because you just unveiled your arrogance

Your opinion and that of the world's is the most important thing

You neglect truth

History is important to know where we came from

History has shown that we'll never fully learn from our mistakes

Now you still have not answered my questions I only asked questions

I didn't make accusations, you made assumptions

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Hi Jond, I assume everyone has reason.

I was born an atheist, as were you, and I have not been shown any evidence to divert me from that view.

What I hold is not a belief. My principles are not a faith.

You write long a send things multiple times.

I will try to answer your questions (not too many please!) if you will try to keep it brief.

Opinions of the world and hopes formed therefrom are important. History is important as long as we don't live in the past. (Like 2,000 yrs ago!)

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

Opinions aren't important

Someone could have the opinion that all trees should be painted blue

that all trees are evil and should be destroyed

or someone could have the opinon that trees should be respected as part of nature, and seen as a vital piece of the ecoysystem and our survival

Truth matters, which what makes one of these opinions correct

Everyone has a reason for what they do, don't assume the reason

I send multiples on accident

I write long to be concise

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Someone could have the opinion that there is a god and that trees should be blue.

That would kinda confirm that they were nuts.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

I was not born an athiest

At the time I could talk, around two years old

I asked God for something

"God" this cooncept was inborn in me

My parent's weren't very religous, and I didn't attend a church until I was 5

I begged mom to take me one time, I just wanted to get out of the house

Going to church and religion haven't helped me a bit

religous people frustrate me

Building a relationship with God has changed my life though

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Re: the indoctrination of a 2-yr-old - I find that despicable.

There's a 2-yr-old on YTub who is reciting answers about mohamed - I suppose you would say that she's been indoctrinated, yes?

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe I wasn't indoctrinated I lost my faith for a time, I renounced it Religion wasn't pushed on me I had to beg my mother to let me go to church with her that first time and when I didn't want to go anymore, she was okay with that I have never had views pressed upon me by my parents I did really understand who Jesus was until I was seven That's because I went to church on my own choice I didn't agree with the way churches were done and I still don't I hope to change that

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

Now then

pleae I've given you answers

and you have yet to give me one clear answer for your beliefs

What is your basis for morals?

What reason is there for leaving a legacy behind?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I'm not religious, but I care about the human race demeaning itself.

I disbelieve in a soul, yet I want to leave a legacy.

I think that human morality predates religion and has nothing to do with it. In fact religion is immoral.

A clear reason for my beliefs??/ What beliefs would you be talking about?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree What I hold is not a belief. My principles are not a faith. I do not rely solely upon science or reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but I distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. I do not respect belief in the mystical. What I respect is free inquiry, open-mindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for its own sake.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe None of that answered my questions You have beliefs You believe in leaving a legacy You believe that morality and religion aren't related (i agree with both by the way) You're arguing semantics, you have beliefs Just because that word is generally associated with religions doesn't mean you should distance yourself from the word belief You didn't answer either of my questions What is your basis from morals? what are they rooted in? What is your reason for leaving behind a legacy?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I don't know why I want to leave a legacy; but. since I am an atheist, the fact that I do is maybe a conundrum you might want to think about.

I do know what is the basis for human morality - and it is not faith.

I don't know why I am so altruistic, objective, but I am definitely interested in the well-being of humanity and worry greatly about the massive dependency on (all 3) religions. I know we will be better off without them, but can we reach that before they destroy us? You figure.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe You owe yourself an answer to these What is your basis for morality? If you have no basis, your morality is not concrete It's something that ebbs and flows You wouldn't base your actions on something so shifty What reason is there to leave a legacy? If you have no reason then you're actions are pointless This is logic Im not insulting you Im just pointing this out It could be for your children maybe then theyd leave a legacy and then the next and the next until death remains

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I told you I know, and have a basis for, morality. You are so entangled in your ridiculous understanding that it can only come form a heap of primitive texts, that you have no wish to understand a more realistic, pragmatic POV.

Those texts are immoral - indisputably, but you have no wish to see that.

Repeat the same question - it is based on nothing.

The bible is nothing.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

I'm not asking you to question me more

What is your basis then?

You haven't answered my question/

You're so caught up in your arrogance that you believe everything I say is nonsense and you have no respect for anything I say or do. Yet I'm immoral?

How do you judge a moral action from an immoral one?

Where does that notion come from?

What central point, what basis do you have to say this is a good or bad thing

I'm not saying you don't have one

I'm asking what is it?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree This is really strange. I have said that morality is possible without your "boss" - in fact I have said that your faith has little claim to morality because it is based on brutal primitive world views.

I therefore, should rather be asking you what is your basis for morality.

Maybe there is no answer to what you want from me.

I do not have to qualify any claim that I have to morality - I know me - you seem to be asking an endless, pointless question. Faith is nonsense. Shed it.

[courag1]

@StrumstickJoe You want myths done away with. And many who have so based their lives when they had the absolute power to do so, killed MILLIONS: Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Hitler is just the beginning of a very ugly list. This did not purge "myth", it just replaced it with the approved one.

Myth says the world is million of years old. Physical evidence proves otherwise. Alluvial fans, the longest living trees, all bout 4500 years old, the date of the flood of Noah.

[StrumstickJoe]

@courag1 I was going to give you a considered answer - but then I saw you believe in the flood (and presumably the incestuous nature of human descent thereafter)

Hitler was arguably the most famous catholic of all time.

Not one single war has been over atheism.

Most wars have been over religion.

There has been a war raging in the middle east for over one millennium - it is AT the cradle of religion, and it is caused BY religion, and nothing else.

Go find some reality!

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Look at all the fine detail of the thoughts of the abraham character you are able to provide!! Your knowledge is amazing!

This event "the hearing of voices in a nutcase's head" "took place" so long ago in the annals of the history of primitive peoples, that I actually think there is as much credence in the stories of the gods of the aborigines of Aus, and the Sioux, Apache or Cheyenne tribes of America.

[Jondree]

Christians say that people are evil, because if you look around it's very apparent that something is wrong with us. But not some of us right? and definitely not you, you're a good person. I'm sure you've never lied or stolen.

Also I don't have voices in my head

I never listen to a voice

or an audible word

or some thought bouncing around in my echo chamber

I feel a lot of Christians do, and they end up twisting their own morals

or taking very poor advice that is from themselves

[Jondree]

This Christian will tell you that I am evil My nature is evil It's selfish prideful and wicked In small subtle ways, I am evil You seem to be offended that all of humanity has this nature Including you So when you refuse to forgive the man that hurts another You refuse to forgive yourself You don't like when people hurt others But you have before intentionally tried to cause physical or emotional harm While the consequence may not be as large as others sin The root of the problem is the same

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I think you missed my point; should I have been clearer?

I didn't refuse to forgive that man that hurts another - I stated that I don't HAVE the right to forgive him for hurting another. So when a man (youknowwho) walks about Palestine saying that he can forgive you the harm you have done to another he has no right so to do; he is immoral, arrogant, deluded.

Except he didn't exist, of course.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

Semantics frustrate me

Forgiveness in the Christian sense of the word

Is something to this effect

You did wrong things, but I don't hate you for that

Whether you did them to me or others

Jesus is essentially saying "Even though you have committed evils

I don't hate you, God doesn't hate you"

Now all evils are directed at God in one way or another

Since we work against the good that he made us with

[Jondree]

Forgiveness doesn't take away responsibility It doesn't remove the consequences of actions It doesn't mean you trust an offender in the same situation again It simply means I do not have hatred towards them I do not hold that against them I do not want harm to befall them Even though they have harmed me I want what is best for them Part of that is facing the consequence of their actions I won't forget what they did But I will not look back and have spite for them

[Jondree]

@AikenBruce

on what grounds is this accusation made?

If this is true Piper has made a serious offense, and I have fallen into error

[StrumstickJoe]

The teachings of christianity: from vicarious redemption, to the love of enemies, to the urging that no thought for the morrow must be taken, no thrift, no care - but rather hate - for friends and family, to the apocalyptic wish for humanity’s end… these are immoral teachings. CH

[bpolyamorousb]

@StrumstickJoe seriously, you're preaching to the wrong choir. Please find something more constructive to do. I literally see your name in almost every christian video I go to. If you're so sure of there being no God, why not spend your time doing things that are exciting? Since you're going nowhere when you die, it would only seem practical to live life to the fullest. If I were an atheist I'd kill myself because that would mean there's no real purpose to life. Please stop commenting.

[StrumstickJoe]

@bpolyamorousb I'm not on enough videos; but I shall continue until I have marginalised the weird cults of christianity and islam.

(Huge task, you might think, but I am only playing a small part)

If you read my posts instead of just seeing them, you would know I have this purpose. I am living life to the full, and I am sorry you're not.

What you said about suicide is a tragedy.

Morality, human decency and purpose are not derived from religion. They precede it.

Find clarity, I wish you well.

[bpolyamorousb]

@StrumstickJoe Christianity got me out of the biggest depression I've ever been in. You can call me delusional, weak, or whatever. I have seen prayers answered in ways I never thought possible. You said you didn't believe in magic. Well, certain things have happened in my life since I truly accepted God that I'll never believe were coincidence. Pastors I listen to who've talked about prayers in their lives that they saw answered. I trust these people and don't discern that they're lying

[StrumstickJoe]

@bpolyamorousb The teachings of christianity: from vicarious redemption, to the love of enemies, to the urging that no thought for the morrow must be taken, no thrift, no care - but rather hate - for friends and family, to the apocalyptic wish for humanity’s end… these are immoral teachings. CH

Do you not agree?

It seems, all the time, that I am fighting people who reverse truth and facts - and cherry-pick their texts for convenience.

Religion is full of all it claims to heal.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

So I'm not stalking you haha

 But I just happened upon this video and checked the comments Saw your name again and I'm hoping you help me find clarity

You never explained how you have a purpose in your worldview If in the end everyone dies and everything dies and the universe collapses into death

Which due to the law of entropy it eventually will be gone So if in the ultimate end of everything is destruction How can you give meaning to your life?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Hi. I do think I've mentioned this:

Two of the major things to overcome, (and even some scientists fall into this trap) are 1) the desperate need to find a meaning to life; and 2) an individual destination. I am here for the same reason as a leaf, or a stone, or a planet, and my destiny is the same as those things.

That makes me happy enough. Despite my importance today, and my sentience, I am no more than a transient happening.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe Then your individual destination is destruction like all of nature Not some purpose that you try to give yourself But ultimate destruction People cause pain and torture People choose not to listen to God People cause great wars and great poverty These are the decisions of humanity When I have children, once they leave the house their destiny is their own Their mistakes are their own and their desicions If they'd just come back to their father he'd give them help though

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Christians have to tell me I'm evil and in need of redemption. Whether that is true or not in my case, they have to say it, because if I wasn't in need of redemption then they would have no story to tell me, would they?

They don't know me, yet they know I must be evil. (But very kindly, they tell me they don't hate me because of my evil. Thanks!) I have hundreds of christians praying for me.

Bit of an insult to say I can't have morals without their despicable entity.

[StrumstickJoe]

I can pay a man's debts, if I want to help him. I can even serve his time.

But I can't forgive him for something he has done to another human! That would be mad and immoral. To say, "I forgive you for treading on that man's toes" is absurd, vicarious, stupid. Who am I to ignore the victim's broken toe, and give you forgiveness in spite of it?

If anybody offers to take away your responsibility in that manner, distrust him; tell him he is evil and immoral.

Get out of religion.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

Finally that spacing works!

okay also

give me an example of Abraham's horrendous actions?

Abraham wasn't perfect, and he did screw up a lot

But what are you thinking of specifically?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I can't believe you're asking me about Abraham's actions!!! The whole faith (as well as the other two major-league delusions) are based on his primitive, murderous, voice-in-the-head moment of imagining he was being told to take his son up a mountain and kill him.

The son was saved by another voice-in-the-head moment of being told to stop!

Then he murdered a goat instead.

Not quite as bad, but still something that should not be acceptable to a modern society.

You think OK? Yes?

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe Okay so let me start with sin sacrifice God asked for animal sacrifice Because the consequence of sin was death in one way or another So to atone for the sin they would give up the most precious thing on earth Life That's why the blood is stressed Because blood is the life of any animal It was an offering to show that they were repentant of the sin That they understood that it was evil That they were willing to give up this animal Instead of feeding themselves To give it to God

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree You believe your god ordered a sacrifice?

Yes?

he ordered a sacrifice?

he ordered a sacrifice?

he ordered a sacrifice?

(I repeat it and it still sounds like bloody rubbish!)

What purpose do sacrifices serve in you head? Atoning for sin? Yes?

You believe that?

You are hopelessly duped, aren't you?

I wish you a moment of light and clarity. (Not like paul on the road to Damascus - that was epilepsy!)

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

I've never claimed my knowledge Amazing

I know very little

Yet you mock me and boast of your view

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree You didn't claim your knowledge was amazing!

I said it! It was me!

If you are privy to what you said, with all it's detail and knowledge of your god's mind, and the mind of al;most prehistoric characters - then it was truly amazing, Jon - I'm utterly flabbergasted and in awe!!

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe You continue to boast of your own way and to mock and ridicule me You still have given no basis as to why You as a drifting transient happening should have any quarrel with the actions or thoughts of another transient happening There is no reason for you to fight or argue over beliefs Yet you do To gain pride Thats dumb and immoral You make fun of people To make yourself seem superior or worse You think yourself superior While claiming you purpose is like that of a leaf or a rock

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I don't think I boast; I just think, like most folks, that I have thought things through - and the inclusion of mysticism doesn't figure as fact in those thoughts.. Are you getting a little agitated? I don't think arguing with you is dumb or immoral - telling lies to children is immoral.

I'll requote to clarify:"..for the same reason as a leaf etc, and my destiny is the same.... Despite my importance today, and my sentience, I am no more than.."

I give my life meaning, hope you do.

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree Your belief in human sacrifice could be more serious than we first thought!

I will not discuss it further, that is for a psychiatrist.

We WILL both die into dust, and we will leave behind our thoughts, and hope that we have added to the sum of human knowledge.

My legacy is not actually these postings - they get swallowed - but the channel with my songs on it.

I have put all my words on there so people can read me if they want to.

Not perfect, but I try!

;-)

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe It doesn't matter if we add to human knowledge If we all die in the end Your worldview can't account for most of what you've said You have answered anything I've asked you dodge my questions and then Imply stupid and ignorant when I attempt to answer yours putting down others is boasting of yourself saying at least I'm not like those people, is boasting of yourself Saying I'm lower than you simply because I believe something differently That is immoral

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

Please, explain these things to me

If you die and everything fades away in the end

How is even having a legacy important?

How is what you or I believe important?

How is trying to persuade me a smart thing to do?

What is your basis for morals?

Humanistic, good of all thoughts are nice make you feel good about yourself

But in your worldview they ultimately don't matter

I don't understand

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree A quick recap will answer most of your questions: "we will leave behind our thoughts, and hope that we have added to the sum of human knowledge." (Oh yes it does matter.)

My life matters to me - as do most other lives; I can't share your hopelessness.

Please don't insult me (and a large proportion of caring humanity) by questioning whether we can have morals without your silly and threatening "god".

You don't understand because all your thoughts are tied to the unfounded mysticism.

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree If I die, and then go to heaven - how does that make my life here more important?

Heaven would be hell.

An invigilating "father" who watches us in our sleeping and waking (he knows if you've been bad or good) and then doesn't even let us die to escape it!! We continue the fawning worship into eternity as he continues the invigilation after we're dead!!! Great!

Glad it's all crap.

I am so glad there is no soul to suffer the torment of eternity .

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe What is your basis for deeming sacrifice as wrong Also stop using your intuition! Stop going on blind feelings and thoughts! Yes that's coming from me the one with faith I've researched these things heavily For the past three years My reason leads me to faith and my faith leads me to reason Now reason with me Is there is no point to life What is the point of you arguing with me If we both will die into dust this conversation is of no consequence

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe Which I still dont understand how you can give life meaning If all will end with destruction you stay alive and do hings without any point and then die and then eventually everything dies and the universe slowly fades away Yet you have the purpose of tearing down religions? This is pointless You dont believe in it Why make a big deal You boast of yourself and belittle others Why do you do this If theres no point to life Do things youd enjoy before you die Enjoy sentience

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree By the nature of things there will always be people on the periphery of humanity - sociopaths etc.

We have to deal with them, we have to make society as safe as we can. Some of them might respond to love – good. But some of them are half-brained religious psychopaths. Your nice “family” analogy doesn’t work, ‘cause your god does not let you go, he invigilates your entire life into eternity.

So glad it’s false.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

another thing

in your worldview

How is sacrifice ridiculous?

Isn't it just another transient happening?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree How is sacrifice ridiculous?How is sacrifice ridiculous?How is sacrifice ridiculous?

Once again, I repeat your weird question to ridicule it and bring home to you how ludicrous, bloodthirsty, and meaningless it is.

How is sacrifice sensible? Needed? Part of human life? Used today?

The fact that it is a primitive rite only proves that your cult is primitive, based on superstition and generally prehistoric rubbish!

Why do you post so many times?

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe

Also another note

Jesus was real we have historical evidence, outside of the Biblical records

Written by historians not fairytale writers

Secondly look carefully at all the texts it was definitely Issac on the altar

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree

It may well be, Jon, that there was a charismatic rabbi about at that time - my intuition tells me that it was more likely an amalgam of more than one, and the wish for prophecy-fulfillment.

But let's say there was one... let's even say he had a virgin birth (real ole chestnut, that one!) - let's say he did miracles (which left not a single jot of evidence) Let's even say he was resurrected (!)

All your work is still ahead of you to prove divinity. (A condition I deny)

[StrumstickJoe]

Is god able to prevent war, crime, torture, pain and natural disasters but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he willing, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he both able and willing? Then why do they happen?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why do you believe in him?

The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident to those who have decided not to see.

[Jondree]

We treat our enemies the same respect, Love is for all, if it's not for all, then it's not Love

Thought for tomorrow is to be taken, several verses about measuring the cost and effort of anything before you try to accomplish it, prepare, but tomorrow is not to be worried about.

You'e to hate anything that comes between you and God, and your Love for others in comparison to your Love for God should look like hate compared to how much you Love God

I Love my creator more than his creations

Immoral?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree I have enemies: They are the religious fascists. They rant and rave and bomb and burn their way to their own apocalyptic ending (their heaven, their paradise)

They believe that their text is The One, and all others take you to hell.

They demean and devalue this life because they think there is another waiting, but only for them...

These are my enemies - you go love them, but don't ask me to.

For I won't.

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe I never asked you to Love your enemies but you're sitting here telling me I'm immoral For caring about people who would rather hurt me For giving them the same respect I give any human being What do you want to see happen to your enemies? For them to vanish? For them to die? For them never to speak? I dont oppress people even if they hate me, I will show them Love I have forced nothing on you Yet you call me an enemy simply for what I believe Why do you persecute me? Im immoral?

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree By the nature of things there will always be people on the periphery of humanity - sociopaths etc.

We have to deal with them, we have to make society as safe as we can. Some of them might respond to love – good. But some of them are half-brained religious psychopaths. Your nice “family” analogy doesn’t work, ‘cause your god does not let you go, he invigilates your entire life into eternity.

So glad it’s false

[StrumstickJoe]

@Jondree It really does astonish me that I have to argue the existence of a fanciful invention with people who seem articulate and intelligent. It is frustrating.

Can you not see that you have no evidence of the existence of supernatural voices in your head - and that those who "think" they have evidence (like abraham) can do some pretty horrendous things and say their god told them to!

btw The disgusting, appalling story of abraham is the foundation of all 3 faiths. I would be ashamed of it!

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe Humanity doesn't want God They don't want anything to do with him So he goes near the ones who accept him The ones who call out o him and say Father please help If all the world would cry out to him in honest repentance He would reach down and help But men don't want God in their lives So God stays out of their lives But us ones who have him in our lives can't stop talking about him and we won't and I won't tell you to stop talking against him But don't tell me to not speak truth

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe I need to explain the hate real quick If you Love something you must Hate what's against it without doing that then it's not full Love Now this kind of hate towards people is not directed at people themselves But things in them such as immoralities, addictions, sins, lies The things that hurt them and hurt you "I Love you and your depression that makes your life hell" see doesn't real add up Without hating these things about a person You could not essentially Love the person

[Jondree]

@StrumstickJoe I do want the world to end :D not humanity though They can't end in a spiritual sense The soul is eternal If people want to choose to be enemies of God forever Then they can spend eternity outside of God, which is outside of all goodness Which is essentially eternal torture Which we modern day call hell See as soon as the world ends A new one will be made, and God's kingdom will be established in Heaven and on the new earth Pretty epic! :D Think of a utopia, but better than that

[GodIsSovereignty]

Why do people are so afraid of the "Mark of the Beast"? If Christians who worship God on Sunday has the Mark of the Beast, what about atheists? They don't worship any god on anyday. I suppose atheists are the first to go to heaven.

[Phresh95]

@GodIsSovereignty funniest thing i've heard

[TheReubenDean]

He said marked...DUH!...MARK of the beast

[cespedeslv]

Mr. Piper, why 95% U.S. Protestant Christians pastors and their congregation don't "REMEMBER" to observe the "Holy Seventh-day Sabbath", and rather go with a COMMAND made-up BY Constantine, and enforce every pope with DEATH decree? POPE BENEDICT isn't COMPATIBLE w/ PROTESTANT USA  benedict PRAYS to JESUS' dead mother that's sick!! BREAKING COMMAND 2n4

[prairiemark]

@cespedeslv 7th day worshippers ignore 2000 years of church history. Early Christians in the NT era chose to worship on Sunday....resurrection day. We are instructed to let no man judge us on which day we regard as a holy day or a Sabbath.

[cespedeslv]

History records Constantine of ROME making a LAW Worshiping the SUN a Christian REST day no-work , and business closed, and early Popes accepted this change. Gentile/Greeks and Jews observe Jesus' Holy Seventh-day Sabbath together, until others LAWS were made to force the ROMAN culture/society to stay away from Jews or find yourself dead along with Jews who believe in Jesus Christ. In the 21st century I will die for Jesus Christ, Greek, Gentile, and Jews over Jesus' Holy Seventh-day. Can YOU?

[Myhopeisinhim]

@cespedeslv

That is not what you will be dying for, but rather for refusing to worship the beast or to take his mark....which might I add is NOT worshiping on sunday.

[1ChasingRays]

Finally, My Point: Yeshua was speaking directly to the Pharisees before him saying, essentially, "It aint food that makes you Pharisees unclean. No, you guys keep the dietary law just perfectly. What makes you unclean is your hearts, your evil thoughts, murders" etc. It was all true of them. They had Him killed. They lied in their testimonies against Him.

Well family, I am sorry that I gave a huge lecture. I meant only to speak on Sabbath but nearly restored the Torah. Not quite. Peace.

[1ChasingRays]

Also consider, 1 Cor 5 speaks of a man who had an affair with his mother... Then, in Hebrews it speaks of us not having resisted unto blood. Some statements were directed at certain individuals that actually existed in a place time. Does that verse about sexual relations with ones mother at all relate to you? Most of you can say no. Paul was addressing an actual person in history. For those that have shed their blood for their faith- they can say that verse from Hebrews doesn't apply to them.

[1ChasingRays]

Answer: We shouldn't let "Pharisees" come in to our Feasts, Sabbaths, or kosher, yes, kosher meals etc. and judge us for not keeping them by the millions of extra biblical traditions/ "oral torah." The same way they accused Jesus for breaking the tradition of the elders when he ate with unwashed hands. How could he blame them for abrogating the laws of Yah for the traditions of men and then He Himself go and undo the dietary law?. Many Greek texts don't say (he declared all foods clean).

[1ChasingRays]

For those of you who run to Colossians 2:16 I will simply tell you to run back through the chapter and get some context.... It says "let NO MAN judge you" in certain things... Verse4 And this I say, lest ANY MAN should beguile you with enticing words. 8Beware lest ANY MAN spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Question: What type of MEN should we not let judge us?

[1ChasingRays]

When did the Holy Spirit fall? ON A JEWISH FEAST DAY! PENTECOST (or Shavuot) WAS BEING OBSERVED WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT DECIDED TO COME.... YES, THINK HARD. THEY WERE CELEBRATING THE FEAST AFTER JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND RESURRECTED.

[1ChasingRays]

In simplicity my argument stands... You must also consider that before the Lord even declared Himself to be Holy He consecrated a space in time as holy, ie Sabbath. Read Acts. You will see Gentiles in the synagogue on the Sabbath.

COOL NEWS FLASH: I know you might think the Feast Days are burdensome laws that were nailed to the cross (though they weren't) but YESHUA WAS RESURRECTED ON THE FEAST OF FIRST FRUITS. IT IS ALWAYS ON A SUNDAY. The feasts were and are prophetic.

[1ChasingRays]

MY PROOF: In Zechariah it is written: ...“Should I mourn and fast in the fifth month, as I have done for so many years?”4Then the word of the Lord Almighty came to me: 5“Ask all the people of the land and the priests, ‘When you fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh months for the past seventy years, WAS IT REALLY FOR ME THAT YOU FASTED? 6And when you were eating and drinking, WERE YOU NOT JUST FEASTING FOR YOURSELVES?

[1ChasingRays]

CONSIDER: There were Jews observing certain "traditional" fast days in memory of Babylon's siege of Israel and the Gentiles who were grafted into the common wealth of Israel were wondering if they should observe these (not Divinely decreed) fast days as well.

[1ChasingRays]

I am surprised no one else notices Paul is quoting from Zechariah in Romans 14:2-65One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike...6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."

[pgill61]

THERE IS NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE SETTING ASIDE THE !ST DAY YOU ARE UNLEARNED OR A DECEIVER RUN FROM THESE FALSE TEACHERS.

[Ruka22ed]

He said Sunday is the Lord's day because of the ressurection of Jesus where is it in the bible? Buy a car to the person who show me where is it. Happy Sabbath day to all

[DeathUntoLife]

False Teacher! 

[SuperGolfing1]

ok Colossians 2:16 is saying meat, and ceremonial sabbaths not Gods holy day if you love Jesus you will keep his commandments as he said. Do you not kill your kids because its illegal or do you not because you love them. Its not called the 10 suggestions, or the 9 laws and 1 suggestions, are we to forget the only one that he say remember, lol.

[SuperGolfing1]

um nope wrong, Saturday is the Sabbath, God never changed it, Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments, case closed. Lets give them that Suday if it were do they really keep holy, golf after church, going out to eat while others work to cook your meal, go watch baseball games etc.... There is not anywhere in the bible NT or OT that sabbath was ever stoped.

[winelfredpasamba]

Sabbath is saturday on most languages around the world.

The disciples kept the Sabbath on the 7th day even after the resurrection.

[darthnozo]

3:59 - 4:42. About sums it up : D

[hahkaloogie]

YUP! The lunar calender.

[hahkaloogie]

The real sabbath is according to the moon cycles. Read the history on how the Jewish people followed the moon cycles and not our modern day calender.

[zelda0521]

@hahkaloogie

so like the lunar calendar?

[e7c7o7]

Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:10 and Romans 14:5 make it clear that u dont need to keep the sabbath. its not a matter of salvation

[pgill61]

CHRIST DID NOT RISE ON SUNDAY. 3 DAYS 3 NIGHTS cant get it from FRI-SUN

[Firework219]

@pgill61 not three days three nights bud. On the 3rd day he rose, not after 3 days he rose.

God Bless

[pgill61]

@Firework219 John 1:17 Matt 12:40 Messiah said three days and three night sooo, im gonna go with what he said. mark 8:31 says AFTER three days. Please understand the terminology use to create the picture. When ON the third day he rose that eliminates any possibility of "fri" cause it would have to be AT LEAST 48+ hrs no more than 72. when he said AFTER 3 days he let you knoe it would be EXACTLY 72 hrs. He would go in and come out EXACTLY the same time 3 days or 72 hrs later.

[pgill61]

@Firework219 also Daniel let us know he would be cut off in the MIDST of the week. Died on wed Passover AD 31 and rose on the sabbath. SUN-day is the biggest lie in the so called church. All must come out of the whore, repent and turn back to the Master. The RCC gave birth to the protestants. They are the harlot daughters. Babylonian sun worship rehashed.

Shalom

[aldotkd1]

Where does the Bible speak of changing the Lord's Day(Saturday/Sabbath) to Sunday? Because Jesus rested in the tomb Saturday then rose on the "first" day? I can't believe Jesus would break his own commands(Mat 19:17),(Mat 5:17-20).

[e7c7o7]

@aldotkd1 its not a case of commandments being broken bcos Christians are not under the law bcos we are no longer under sin. no days been changed, the early church gathered on sunday so we do aswell. well Jesus rested in the tomb on thursday and friday but we dont think we shud rest on those days do we?

[aldotkd1]

@e7c7o7 - I understand we are not under the Law but under Faith, but who's idea was it to change the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. The research I gathered shows that the apostles always gathered to teach and preach on the Sabbath. I understand that the Roman emporer Constantine(325 ad) ordered the rest day be Sunday and the Roman Catholic church has followed suit.

[e7c7o7]

@aldotkd1 well there is tons of church history wich shows that christians began worshipping on sunday in apostolic times. in 325 there wasnt a 'roman catholic church' there was just the one group of tru churches, they were still being persecuted and christianity was only just made legal. so it doesnt make sense for the emperor to order a rest day and all the christians to just change wen being a christian was illegal for 300 yrs and they still did that

[aldotkd1]

@e7c7o7 -So you're saying Christianity was illegal during Constantine's rule? HMM, I don't think so. Constantine built the new Church of the Holy Apostles among other Christian like works. Please tell me where I can find proof of early Christian worhship on Sunday besides the early Catholic Church. Thanks

[e7c7o7]

@aldotkd1 it was illegal before that, thats why christians were constantly being killed and the faith was underground, he helped to make it legal then after him it was made the empire's religion. well the early catholic (meanin universal not roman) church was the only non heretical group started by the apostles themselves. if u google 'early church fathers sabbath' u'll get a lot of stuff. ive been lookin into this so i'll quikly message u wat i found

[derrickmn2009]

Baptism is the way to honor Christ's death and resurrection - not Sunday worship. Don't listen to False Teachers.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[derrickmn2009]

Where is the verse that says the Lord's Day is Sunday??? It doesn't exist Pastor Piper....The verse below says that God calls the Sabbath His Holy Day. Try reading your Bible!

Isaiah 58:13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD;

[tempemonkey2323]

Some old Jewish zombie rose from the grave every Sunday? I think your confused, thats only once a year. Its called halloween. Halloween isnt real, seriously zombies dont exists, but you seem to take it seriously..... Is this video satire?

[tempemonkey2323]

Why doesnt he tell us the punishment for breaking the sabbath day- thats right, its a stoning. Wasnt everything punished by a stoning back then?

The cure to brainwashing by xianity is getting an education.... good luck with this mind disease.

[sylvesterlooney007]

great,explanation as to how to honor God on one day,love how it was put nicely,but you left one thing out that there is no biblical proof that sat, was changed to sunday ,Sat. was sanctified and it is Holy. great oppinion but you still rather follow what you think is right, and not what God thinks is right,lets not take away what God has done and fix it to our convinience,Romans is reffering to ,not be a stumbling block also,let our conscience be our guide after we study the bible,with no doubt.