Death by Perfectionism

[Talbot6832]

While it helped me achieve a First at University it has pretty much made me miserable.

[egyptianandproudful]

story of my life !

[jp0005jp]

this helped a lot thanks!

[marly9]

Sexy and smart.  ^_^

[system3142]

So you draw a spectrum. You have 0/1 on one end, and 1/0 on the other. The numerator is the effectiveness of your actions, and the denominator is the limit you put on the number of actions. The spectrum moves from quantity to quality thus: You have an infinite number of actions with no effectiveness at all, or you can have no actions at all which have infinite effectiveness. The latter is hard perfectionism, and the former is, lets call it particularism. Where you place is down to choice.

[Togemon1988]

Are you a virgo? lol

[ionvkch]

@Togemon1988 exactly haha

[z3r0Projects]

I must say i am quite impressed with your ability to communicate your thoughts! I heared your name first when I witnessed a movement I support (The Zeitgeist Movement) fail miserably in their attempt to have a constructive debate with you. I still believe there is no such thing as a "free-market", but nevertheless you are a clever chap , with a sense of logic I relate to. Thumbs up!

[humbaskasdole]

Agree, except the title should have been "Death by obsessive compulsive disorder(its a disease)" and not perfectionism. Perfection should always be treated in the broader sense keeping (as mentioned) purpose(happiness) of ones life as the ultimate yardstick. In his case the goal is successful conduct of the upcoming meeting(which fits with his broader purpose) which automatically undermines the importance of keeping the shoes of the people coming clean as of no significance!!

[Bluetenstaub]

Absolutly loved it! Right on the point! Good job!

[christentze]

im suffering SO badly from perfectionism. i think i always had it in me but it has intensified so much over the past year that im now about to be put on academic probation because i get so freaked out from my assignments that i stop going to class. i can't stop my mind from turning everything into monumental tasks. i dont even know how to get help. i truly feel like my life is circling the drain.

[flakjap]

That "surely" at 16:08 scared the living shit out of me.

[imcrazy85]

when i start too get a bit ocd about what ever i say to myself "wait a minute, im just moving a damn lawn" and then laugh at myself

[imcrazy85]

when i saw the endlessness of it i was like png light bulb im retarded

[mikedurland]

Very helpful information

[rwethealtman]

I was in an abusive marriage where my husband had me hoodwinked about being perfect. Because of religious beliefs, I stayed in the marriage for 31 years. At the end he was trying to convince everyone that I was bi-polar because I was trying to get away from him and he didn't want anyone to help me. The worst thing was.. I started to think I was crazy too.. After that was a 4 year depression and two suicide

attempts I found a good therapist and got away with my psyche intact. Hard lesson!!

[ChristophDollis]

Amazing video.

I especially enjoyed how you pointed out the point of yardwork and housework and any task is to support happiness itself, or love, or virtue, or reason (or even beauty, I assume, which goes to happiness).

This video will help me.

In fact, after I watched your procrastination video, I felt the need for perfectionism diminish.

I am critiquing some points as I go along, but that video ... is forming the literal basis for how I intend to live my life.

Thanks.

[ChristophDollis]

Oh man. I've only watched 5 minutes so far, but this is SO bang on.

It reminds me specifically of taking a job raking leaves for neighbours as a kid. My perfectionism resulted in that job taking several times longer than it should have because it was the first time I'd done it and I wanted to do it right for my customers because I felt so grateful they had given me the job.

That's how I thought of things.

In reality, they felt guilty and gave me some more money because of how long it took.

[nocoercion]

Take it on! Take it down! About slurping your tea, now it's a motto, “Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, don’t be afraid to make slurping sounds, and don’t take crap from anybody.”

[WaywornIVImmmm]

Ha ha. I thought it said protectionism. Not what I was expecting, but still a great video.

[0TheNewFascistParty0]

Perfectionism is the only answer, anything below perfectionism is unacceptable!

[YoUkEePuP13]

Very helpful, thanks for the light! I had a perfectionist parent, and this helped clear out some damaging ideas on what's good enough.

Perfection is for losers

[vDarkAngel21]

Thank you for video. I relate to everyone's comments. I used to be an A student when I was younger, but I began to pressure myself so much in every area of life. have left jobs, dropped out of dozens of classes & wasted thousands $ on clothes cuz a "friend" told me my style is not classy enough. I was obsessed w how the world sees me & set goals like grades & titles to prove my success & worth. I recover, but it returns. I see now that it's cuz I saw fault w myself than perfectionism itself.

[lamarjlp914]

I am a perfectionist and my life has been a living hell because of it. I never complete anything I begin to enjoy and my past is littered will failures and unrealized dreams. I really want to overcome this thing.

[777TylerJB]

@lamarjlp914 Same here. I write lots of things down on paper, and try to make it perfect so I can remember it. I always dream and act out my goals and dreams. I talk to myself alot too. I talk, but I never act! Therefore I never get anything accomplished. I really want to overcome this also!

[TheMeditativeMind]

nice...i am a recovering perfectionist myself...and I know how my standards of being perfect in everything - being it making music, relationships, job whatever made me unhappy and had affected my levels of happiness...I am not sure how i became a perfectionist, but i am sure i wanna leave this perfectionism behind and enjoy life as it comes...things are perfect with all their imperfectiions :)

[dkleitsch]

Some tasks require perfection, and you have failed if you don't achieve it.

Three mistakes in a month and your work must be inspected by another.

(aerospace industry)

[heeerro]

@dkleitsch that's not about perfection. it's just about doing your job to a acceptable degree. to reach perfection in that line of work would be to seek to never ever do an error.

one error and you're out would be a job for a perfectionsit (doesn't exist)

[dkleitsch]

@heeerro

Six Sigma is the standard. A six-sigma process is one in which 99.99966% of the products manufactured are free of defects, 3.4 ppm

Perfectionism is really a fear of failure, and those people seldom get much done, much less enjoy anything.

[drew335533]

Interesting story Stef. Last semester I was so obsessed with a perfect GPA and didn't care about enjoying life or learning at all. By final exam time I had stressed myself out so much that I couldn't even study for my exams. This semester, now that I have given up perfectionism and enjoyed every day of my life, my grades are much better and my happiness is much better as well! =D

[ferdo621]

Thanks. This video was awesome and full of knowledge.

[sugarcoatedfortune]

you're very brilliant! Thank you for explaining all of your ideas and stories! They helped me realize my need for happiness and the need to discard a false-happiness gainer such as perfectionism!

[6161251]

Extremely informative, thank you!

[CountDOODOO]

Cool! Very informative! I think my supervisor is actually a perfectionist.

[moonlitgem24]

Great video, but the real question is how do you change?

[Frettsy]

amazing. thanks.

[oober349]

16:08

SURELY!

[quakergamer]

I would like to see more videos like this one. Thanks for your wise words, Stefan.

[RoyvanKeulen]

Very good and true video. I was also brought up to have a tendency towards perfection and have always questioned is. This reaffirms my doubt towards the usefulness of perfection.

[usernname1]

good stuff as always

[nitarna]

This, death of concepts and The meaning of life- series you did made me feel and think more free (and therefore made me more happy) ..

So this is extremely helpful, cant thank you enough Stef.

[bigjohn955]

I like these exercises in thought more than True News...

True News is important, although depressing...

[LukeCoulson]

Dear Stef,

To exhale in Law n Order one must study the works of Davey Croquet. Do it not in the rain but in hail. Have you thought about decking it? (Not me). Have Pun.

Yaws,

Lucy Anne.

P.S. Forgive?

[rx7guy82]

You da man Stefan!

[Enleuk]

"That is very well put, said Candide, but we must go and work our garden."

[Rokasomee]

I love you~ <3

[Mattprole]

The problem with our classifying happiness is that we have no clue what we are talking about. Language, and everything for that matter, is too subjective to allow us to assert anything beyond only the most basic axioms, which we already obey out of necessity.

[camreeno360]

In the case of the lawn, I think the REAL perfect lawn would be the lawn that produces the most happiness, rather than a lawn that completely spotless. For instance if you rake your lawn in a way that you make an elaborate design with the leaves and it impresses whoever you're trying to impress more than if they saw a spotless lawn. So yeah, I think the whole idea of "perfection" is just some bogus idea when real perfection is made when you perform something that produces the most happiness...

[jadam914]

Stef, as always your points are thought provoking. I think this one is well delivered and on point. I greatly enjoy your videos. I most of all enjoyed your opening min. Isn't then Atheism then "a retarded and counter productive answer" to the universe also? For both arguments fail empirical proof and the scientific method for lack of information. Just something to consider. Again love the thought provoking videos and though we don't always agree, I have deep respect for your work. Thank you. : )

[medhue]

skyarcher, you are missing the point. The point was not what profectionists bring to society. Was Kubrick happy? Did he proportion the right about of time as to not disrupt his overall happyness? I'm sure stefdot can speak for himself tho. Great video! Hey, I like the True News also. 1 of my fav channels on Youtube. Keep up the great work.

[skyarcher]

"Did he proportion the right about of time as to not disrupt his overall happyness?"

could you explain what you mean?

When is someone happy?

What is this magic proportion? If someone engages in something, philosophy or anything else, and they give it less of their time and of themselves than they instinctively feel ... are they 'happy' with their ineptitude?

[Salocin27]

washing the dishes is a big one for me. There is only one way to do it well any variation in time or procedure is wrong! is you want to know more i can put you in touch whith my dad.

[Valelacerte]

Sigh, perfectionism: check, achieving excelllence in my personal happiness: fail. My perfectionism in my work is about organisation: naming conventions, hierarchies, grouping like with like, observing standards and best practices. I guess I do bully, albeit subtly, my colleagues for sloppy work and feel alone in my apparent pedantry. I imagined that my happiness would be achieved through elegantly designed and executed work, but I just feel I'm amidst chaos and zero control.

[fr3nzylogic]

You can control only so much. There are people, who do not pay their attention to detail, and I do understand your frustration. But you can always be happy with your OWN work, while respecting the choice of others. Staying in the realm of standards and well accepted conventions does pay off, but not all developers understand the benefits or want to implement them. You can't change that, other than showing them some good arguments. Try giving yourself more credit, while still accepting others.

[Valelacerte]

Thanks, fr3nzylogic, some wise advice. Yes, I can't control other people, they tend to resent it and become resistant. The frustration is the high staff turnover and 60% outsourcing: it leads to a lot of inconsistency and difficulties in establishing standards. Anyway, I appreciate your comments.

[creaturex]

I like these a lot, feel free to do more!

[Jacko86plus5]

I find these psychology/philosophy insights far more useful than the True News series. Although I do like them too.

[nathanjonessr]

conversations about perfectionism, failure, compromise, balance are so inconsistent, the problem is we try to make a dogma over what is just circumstantial pragmatism. failure can be beneficial, but not so much as that is all we should do, perfection can be silly but can be noble, shall we balance good with evil, shall we compromise good for evil. we have to be careful about making sweeping statements about matters such as these.

Bible uses perfection in the sense of maturity or growth.

[fixer1972]

your videos always seem to enlighten...

[robzrob]

Jo Brand, British comedienne: 'I'm going to write a book about housework one day, called, 'Fuck It, That'll Do.'

[vdmerwe]

You are sounding more and more like an Irish Christopher Walken

[amulware]

I really like your True News but these videos are great, too.

Couldn't you just make both? :D

Oh by the way, thank you for this video!

I always have known, that my perfectionism is destructive to happiness, but i think looking at it from your perspective helped me to better deal with it. :)

[TheRightDecision]

I like this better than true news!

=D

[StopButtSearches]

True news instead of these "practical advice". And this was way too short to even make clear what u even mean by perfectionism... I see it as a positive life-force that makes you "do your best", what u call perfectionism i would call "obsession with details" which is a sort of avoidance of the more important aspects of life.

[zer0nix]

a 'positive life force that makes you do your best' is the pursuit of excellence, which is separate from an un-winnable pursuit of perfection.

i think the point of this video is to remind us to separate out and make a clear, conscious distinction between what is seeking simply to be decent and workable and what is a meaningless, un-useful, hurtful obsessiveness.

unfortunately, like you, i think this video was cut short; what does it say about society when so many parents and bosses say 'yes?'

[AGeNt7eVeN]

Your fear in this situation is created by your ego talking to you, telling you that you might not be good enough, The same ego that tells you your better than others, the same ego that makes you stay out late drinking with your friends to look cool and chat up girls even though you have work in the morning and the same ego that then beats you up in the morning for being tired, late for work and hungover... lol

[AGeNt7eVeN]

No one should worry this much about raking grass ;-)

But surely being a good farther is about teaching your children politeness and an acceptable level of standards towards doing certain tasks. I don't see how this relates to fear, unless you are punished for not reaching a certain standard. Fear is a natural reaction in any situation where your doing something new as you have uncertainty towards the task in hand.

[emune101]

THIS VIDEO IS PERFECTION

[newexperiment]

5 stars and well deserved, I also enjoy this somewhat more then the true news of late. When true news started there were topics which were important enough for Stef to be passionate about. I know he seems passionate about them still but it does seem more of an act, or a hassle to him then these sorts of videos. Which Is why people respond better to them I think.

[ladulaser]

Being a fan of green, resource-based economy, I found this VERY helpful. Thanks a lot! You said you were on True News earlier? I gotta start subscribing to both...

[skillzilla111]

this > true news

[RuddODragonFear]

This video was excellent, but MORE TRUE NEWS.

[gerry2345]

I agree..very helpful

[Skullstation]

"Water which is too pure has no fish."

~ Ts'ai Ken T'an

[DeeperBlueX16]

:D excellent vidoe!

I always felt uncomfortable by perfectionist AP kids in high school. We gotta get straight As! And they were really...stupid.

lol

[nathanjonessr]

I passed two AP exams in High School, and barely passed the two AP classes (from lack of effort) I think you're revealing some irrational resentment toward kids you felt were smarter than you, but you left yourself an excuse not to excel or compete with them by claiming they were perfectionist. That way you woulnt really have to put it on the line to see if they were smarter, you simply disqualified them as perfectionist.

[DeeperBlueX16]

ok, first of all, youre making alot of conclusions on little evidence (1 comment and you already tell me i label people who i think are smarter as perfectionist to feel good about myself?

I also passed an AP Class with an A and the AP exam with a 5. And as i said, if i have an argument with them about why they need 5 ap classes at once, and why they cant miss one day of school or one day to have fun instead of study when they want to take a break?

And theyre NOT perfectionist? Really?

[babaluto]

Snatch the pebble Grasshopper.

Great dissert

[KevinSolway]

BTW, teeth are naturally yellow to varying degrees. It doesn't mean they're unhealthy. Teeth are only made pearly white artificially. I know this because I've always had teeth that are dark yellow (and I've never smoked). :-)

[yellow2856]

Why are they walking on your lawn? Get a sidewalk.

[yellow2856]

Just kidding. I like to think of other alternatives. Try a lawnmower that collects the grass. Have people leave their shoes at the porch. I look at the desired result and come up with the most economical way to produce that result instead of trying to get perfection from something that doesn't produce perfection. I like to think of it as backward planning.

[robzrob]

I thought about the shoes and grassbox too!

[LeksServices]

People seek perfection in relationships, and wonder why they can't make them work. That right there demonstrates the problem with perfectionism. =p

I and my partner do not have the most perfect relationship, but we have a beautiful relationship none the less. Many people are jealous, but do not realize that our relationship has faults, and we accept those, balancing the faults with the happiness our relationship brings. For example, we never get all our needs met, but that's okay even so.

[crapalator]

lovely comment :)

[LeksServices]

Thank you. :-)

[B00mBoomboy]

wowow.

[newperve]

I thnk perfectionism is also a device to avoid the real problems of one's life. The more time you spend "getting it exactly right" the less time you spend thinking of why you're not happy. The more one concentrate on a simple task the more the larger philosophical task of figuring out what one actually values can be avoided. People want to avoid this task because requires confronting comforting illusions and acknowledging doubt about the basic framework of one's life.

[qkholster]

Well said newperve.

[TruthSurge]

Stefan, I have found these last two vids far more useful than any of your previous ones. Failure and perfectionism... I have been under the perfectionism curse for decades and it truly stifles me since I can't start something that I don't think will turn out perfectly.

I vote for more of these personal vids if you can squeeze them in. And THAT is what I call excellence!

[quakergamer]

Really helpful video, thanks for the same logical explanation, Stefan.

[Deathinmusic]

Another great video. You've been tackling a bunch of my shortcomings lately.

[PsyogiBottoms]

I think perfectionism is a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorders, don't you think?

The Idea of Perfect (other than as an Ideal) is subjective. Like in your yard example, I'd say it was perfect if you had achieved uniformity of cuttings spread over your lawn - not the removal of every piece.

I do suffer from the necessity to have things done correctly - oddly because my father failed to ever do anything correctly and the inconvenience was my own comfort.

Perfect is a relative state of being.

[choobala]

i enjoy both this and true news. it's great that you're trying to (and want to) make a difference in people's lives. keep it up, i really appreciate it :)

[spamsponge]

Much better exposure and white balance on this one.

[flaze3]

An interesting video. I hope to make a vid response tomorrow, but mostly I agree with you.

[StrafingMoose]

Love 'em, but True News as well. But I see no difference since both "series" use the same sense of logic anyways :)

[laura835]

Thanks for the great insight!

[flaze3]

wow your mother seems a little bit OTT...

[neotechdrag]

Oh, wow . I never thought about it that way. Thanks.

[Stargazer5781]

Another great video Stef :-) I also like your shirt, it looks very comfy!

[Gutschiii]

I've never commented your videos before although I've seen plenty of them. The key is, I think, that you want to make a difference - and videos about getting over losses, dealing with procrastination and so on are too many exactly what they need. Something that might be fun to do is having a "question hour" for listeners - I think your video with the depressed writer with a jackass dad you did was one of your best. Take care - you're a hell of a guy Steff.

[FreeSelfProject]

There is a Sunday Call-In for just the sort of thing you're talking about. Every week @ 4PM Eastern. Come to the chat room, and whisper your skype id to stef, if you have a question. We love to hear fresh voices :)

[skyarcher]

"your presumption is flawed"..... pls explain....

[chardoc89]

i like these better. true news is depressing - however just as interesting!

[boosuff]

Another great vid Stef. You seem to bring up topics that affect everyone (at least many) but know one really discusses. its important to look at the bigger picture without getting caught up in the confines of the smaller picture. Keep it up with these types of discussions. News in important but I find your recent topics (self improvement) to be inspiring and helpful.

[j3rdog]

I like this AND True news. Keep mixing it up.

[CaptainFrantic]

Great video. I am guilty of (and very aware of) the detrimental effects of perfectionism (and even ideological absolutism) in my own life and it's good to be reminded of the dangers and pitfalls it represents. *****

[tartsphere]

I agree with everything except this "Perfectionism is saying that the goal of the task is excellence within the task itself."

I believe Perfectionism is saying that if excellence is not met within the task the goal is not achieved.

Regardless of the goal of the specific task, a super goal exists that is achieved through recurring excellence.

Though that would make the goal of the super task excellence within itself, proving your argument.

Haha, funny how that turned out.

[Ashkoren]

Very interesting. You're now covering areas that are not commonly discussed elsewhere, such as in the media, unlike politics and religion. I also liked how you analyzed the meaning of life and I'm looking forward to see your next video

[Eldel15]

good example about raking the grass

[sam29232]

I really needed this. Its more important to look at the big picture than to strive for perfection on a small task. Thank you so much!

[eternalwargod]

awesome stef keep it up:p

[skyarcher]

Here is a suggestion Stef.

Travel over a large body of water in an aircraft which was NOT designed and created by a person who was a perfectionist.

Perfectionism is part of the ancient body which we all inhabit. It is difficult for these people dealing with this energy to suddenly switch into being a 'casual' and 'relaxed' humanoid in an instant.

High standards are high human beings really.

This videos is lacking fundamental understanding of human nature.Sag versus Virgo.

[ks100001]

Perfectionism does not equal the willingness to improve things. If aircraft designers strove for complete perfection, no plane would ever have gotten off the ground. Perfectionism is a form of neurosis.

And btw, you do know that Sagittarius and Virgo do not really exist?

Constellations are arbitrary human constructs. They do not exist in actuality. There are no "Star Gangs" in space that go around emitting mystical forces that affect human characteristics or behavior.

[skyarcher]

I would prefer to fly in a plane which was designed and tested by a bunch of perfectionists than by a bunch of philosophers lol! Planes are not perfect but getting 2 million parts to synthesize into a singularity requires more than barely competent.

'Perfectionism is a form of neurosis' may be true for a small amount of people but as a sweeping statement it is a fallacy.Perfectionism is, in its purest and most benevolent form, a search for beauty, truth and goodness. It is passion.

[MyHairColorIsBald]

You do not have to be a philosopher to have the "philosophy" of "good enough"; often, philosophers themselves have to be reminded to be practical. What is being pointed out is 'a product/service for others to use'. If you are always trying to make the product better, without releasing previous prototypes for others to try out and tell you if they actually like it, can't perfectionism not just lead to ineffective outcomes, but to Inferior ones, ones that do not have the end "consumer" in mind?

[robzrob]

perfectionism and excellence aren't the same.

[DCLugi]

You'd never fly in a plane built by perfectionists because it would never actually be finished.

[skyarcher]

Are you suggesting that perfectionists never actually finish anything?If anything,because they are perfectionists,they work ten times harder and can compress their efforts into diamond.Think of all the great poets and musicians whose reworkings and quest for perfection landed them in immortality.

Think of Stanley Kubrick,the ultimate perfectionist, who did not make that many films but transformed an entire art form with his perfectionist streak.

Generalities like yours simply are not true.

[DCLugi]

Perhaps we're not defining "perfectionist" the same way. Perfection is an illusion so one can't actually be a perfectionist. Passion for something is different. I understand wanting to get something done the best one can. Musicians and poets enjoy the act itself so they could go on forever. You say that planes aren't perfect so they can't be built by perfectionists but most of them get the job done.

[skyarcher]

In your saying 'perfection is an illusion', you are, in a strange way, more of a perfectionist than I am. I can look at a tree, or listen to a piece of music and say that is perfect. It is enough in itself. Nothing more.

You see a 'flaw' or something like that in everything and so actually have higher expectation and more idealized view of reality which is the mark of a perfectionist)

[DCLugi]

So you would trust me to build your airplane?

[skyarcher]

Of course ) maybe you go up in it first though ...

[qzvar]

If perfectionism were key in aeronautics, you'd have never heard of the Wright brothers, nor would we currently be producing these technologically obsolete, energy inefficient, combustion based monstrosities.

I don't see how this applies to what Molyneux is speaking on, so I'll cease this digression.

Do you prefer to wind your spaghetti about the tines of your fork? Or do you prefer to suck and slurp the noodles? As for me and my house, we shall suck the noodle.

Haha.

[conquesimo]

I wasn't going to write anything until you said, "please let me know if these have been helpful" at the end there. For me, this podcast was not particularly helpful. The last one wasn't helpful either, but it was at least intriguing enough to spark some ideas about failure, stress and happiness. This one seemed kind of repetitive and trivial, though I'm just one person who does not relate to the topic.

Speaking of the last one, I'd love to hear your response to my comments attached to it.

[JahLoveOnline]

very helpful. Glad to see the videos shorter, shorter is always better

[TheRightDecision]

I going to be better :D

[ya19375]

* * * * *

[bunabayashi]

awesome!