Listen people!!!!!!! We have a living Prophet! We know what we are talking about alright!! Thats all i got to say! Jesus was a Prophet and now President Monson Is a Prophet.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but there's no getting around it. Jesus himself said "There is no marriage in heaven, nor are any given in marriage." If you were not married to your wife anymore, would you cease to love her? Would she cease to matter? Unless you chose to divorce her...
And come on, the story of Adam & Eve is an allegory. Another creation myth. Don't take it too factually - it's supposed to illustrate the nature of humanity. See "midrash".
You can still love your wife after death - but there is no need for marriage in heaven. It's an earthly institution, for production of children in a stable relationship, so children would "belong" to their fathers. There's no procreation in heaven, no sex - we won't be so concerned with such banal behavior if we become some sort of exalted beings in the afterlife.
This attitude is a great example of Smith's preoccupation with "getting it on". It's actually pretty funny.
you still gave no support for your claim. Read some studies on the ancient israelite religion, sex seems to be the very thing they belived that even God had with his two wifes. Backyardprofessor has videos on this "biblical context" he quotes the top christian scholars on the matter and demonstrates how it is prooved what the israelites believed originally. You have lost the debate allready because you have no supporting arguments from the bible to refute mine.
@Jarkko1983 "It's an earthly institution" - Luke 20:34 - And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage.
This helps substantiate at least some of his/her statement.
Matt 10: 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth I came not to send peace, but a sword.35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and the daughter against her mother and the daughter in law against her mother in law 36 And a mans foes shall be they of his own household 37 He that love father or mother more than me is not worthy of me and he that love son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
God says in revelations of HIS 144,000 Rev.14:4 "For they are spiritually undefiled, pure as virgins in body & mind, following the LAMB whever he goes.They have been purchased from among the men on the earth as a consecrated offering to God and the Lamb."
We see here clearly the 144,000 are virgins in BODY and mind. Who are they married to in heaven?
they are undefiled, that doesn't restrict sex if it's in marriage, because sex in marriage is pure. Metaphors shouldn't be mis used out of their real message.
Who is the apostle Paul's wife in Heaven since he was not married? Who are his children? reread Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians pertaining marriage.
Corintians 7:8&9 So, I say to those who aren't married, and to widows-better to stay unmarried if you can, JUST AS I AM, But if you can't control yourselves, go ahead and marry. It is better to marry than burn with lust.
Paul was married according to ancient christian literary outside of the bible.
Pauls 7 th chapet in cor is only his opinnion and not God's law, Paul admits himself that he speaks and not te lord on this matter. Paul was giving an anvice to those labouring in the gospel not to get married because marriage would be slowing factor.
@Jarkko1983 True about being his opinion. So Joseph Smith taught something different then what Jesus / apostles taught? Like a restoration of a principle that wasn't founded in the early Christian churches? Because if it was taught like Brigham and Joseph did, I don't think Paul would be speaking his opinion on such a matter so loosely.
Jesus is the context.What he says is law, anything else is to be compared to his words. Jesus is context you have no place to put it into context lol.
"Jesus is context you have no place to put it into context lol."
That is the most ridiculous comment ever! Seems like you don't know what context means as a word, what matthew recorded as christ words, must be understood in it's context, why christ spoke what he spoke and to whom? I clearly understood the text in it's entirety unlike you.
I dont need to read the bible to know that God loves us because I already know that. If you know anything about love, it brings people together, not break them apart. Our relationships with our children, spouses and family will not be done away in heaven.
Heaven is not about us. It's about Jesus. It's all about Jesus.
We are to make the best of our relationships here on earth because He commanded us to love one another so that we don't destroy each other while here on earth. But the first commandment is to love God.
Thats the only purpose of love so we dont kill eachother? wow! He commanded us to love one another, marry and replenish the earth. Heaven is our home with heavenly father. Jesus is preparing it for us but we also have to be worthy to live with him. Do you even care about your family or what happens to them after death? Heaven would not be heaven without family. Why dont you understand that? God commanded us to love everyone not just him. if one cares not for his brother hes unworthy of heaven.
Caring about my family does not equal believing that we will be on a planet together and populate it. You are assuming an emotion when discussing doctrine. Whether or not I love my family or people around me does not determine that there is marriage in eternity or not.
Jesus and God is all about love, and that love is for us, and greatest joy of love is in a family unit, and god want's to bless us with that unity in heaven aswell.
Jesus and God loves us that's why God created the planet earth so that he could help us to become like he is, that we could be his heirs. Christ loved us so much that he was willing to pay the ultimate price so that we could have chance to partake of the diine nature if we believe in him and follow him.
You believe in a different god than the one in the Bible. You use the same words but have created your own meanings. In Judaism and in Christianity, the beliefs you are writing here are heresy.
jews believe in marriage after death so do the orthodox christians. yet you gave no demonstratable proof that I believe in a different god from the bible, I used the bible to demonstrate my point you didn't.
How come you can't come to the same conclusions about God without the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price? Where was Mormonism before Joseph Smith? Was Jesus' work here on earth not enough?
now you are going back to the general fundamental freak preaching. Christ's work was everything mormons would never say anything contrary. mormons were here before joseph during the 1's century, it was just restored again in the 19'th century. we can come to the same conclusion without the extra scriptures, if we read the ante-nicene church fathers, plus the bible doesn't contradict our views as I have demonstrated.
I guess Jesus's work here while on the earth was not enough. He was killed along with all of his Apostles. If it were enough would that have happened? His work on the hearts of men is a constant work. He is not dead he is risen and he still speaks. And the books you listed above are the word of God but they are only a few and there will be more and more forever. He is the same yesterday, today and forever...
Not according to the early Christians, and what comes to the Judaism, see thebackyardprofessors video the biblical context, and you'll see some shocking news concerning the earliest Israelite religion from the studies of christian scholars.
Marriage in heaven is the dominant theme there as well
God is still our heavenly father and our earthly father will still be our earthly father. Mary will still be Christs earthly mother. These dont go away when we die. God is very organized. A child can understand this. marriage is ordained of God and all things will become eternal save those that were not worthy of it. Eternal life is to live with our families forever with God, not without. The Bible give little to no info on this
we will be married to Christ, not to each other. We will be together, just not having sex and making babies. Your children will be with you if you go to heaven and they do too, but you will no longer be their boss. Jesus says explicitly that NO MARRIAGE exists in heaven. Ask yourself what God commanded Adam and Eve; He said to "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the Earth" So, when the Earth is full, i.e. in heaven, marriage is o longer neccessary.
jesus never ever once says anything about that marriage doesn't exist in heaven! He says that there is no more marrying in the resurrection, you clearly didn't even watch my whole video and ignored all the scriptures put together. Church fathers also believed in marriage eternaly and also those eastern orthodox christians who claim to retain oldest doctrines that roman catholics forsook.
Obviously you didn't watch the whole video where I explained that scripture. We don't marry in the resurrection, but all those affairs will be dealt with before the resurrection takes place. So ther will be no more marriages performed after resurrection, but that doesn't nullify those marriages that are performed before. No disputations of marriage wil exist in the resurrection, they are settled before that, that, was christ's point.
you can't explain the scripture. You are mad and going against the Christians that formed groups directly after the death. You are preaching against the word of the bible and therefore you will be accursed.You are putting words in Christs mouth which you know the result of that is im sure.
so you dont want to live with your family or your children forever? how selfish. i surely remember that God has said, "if ye are not one, ye are not mine." God has made certain promises to his people, such as the power to bind on earth and in heaven and whatever God brings together no man shall put asunder. We will be with our familys forever because thats what God intended for a fullness of happiness. would you want to be in heaven if the ones you loved could not be with you? no understanding.
yes because what you think God wants for us is better than what the bible says he wants for us. You are literally crazy to think our purpose on earth is to make a family for heaven. Our purpose is to spread the good news and let God use us to bring ppl to Him.There is no marriage in heaven.Seriously stop deciding what the bible says off the book of mormon. Read the bible and compare everything to it.
the book of mormon doesnt say anything about eternal marriage. you are one sad individual if you think you would be happy without loved ones. Our purpose on earth is to have a family and procreate and teach the gospel. And family is important. That is how God set it up! if there is no family there is no society. The cealing power of God is to bind together on earth and in heaven. It is the power to bind families together because without eacother we cant return to heaven.
He has a plan for us, but never has he said he will replace families in heaven. You cant get to heaven by yourself. God made man and women to be together!
you need to read the bible again very badly dude, paul never got married and hes the reason Christianity reached the gentiles. Christ even mentions ppl that became eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of God basicly to avoid their lust. And Christ clearly states theirs no marriage in heaven. You really really need to read the bible.
Many bible scholars do believe that paul was married. He was a jewish pharisee at first, and they were required to be married, so it doesn't make sense that paul could have been one without a marriage.
you should really give Pauls writings another read and the gospels for that matter. And read it based on what Christ said instead of based on what your extra books say.
Gutcheckcoming, check out the "all comments" section. I went through this with him... but he's convinced he's right. Jesus is not God for these people... why should they listen to what He said?
yeah i know man i keep forgetting Joe Smith's word is more reliable than Christ's. Joe smith the masonic ,occultic, polygamist ,servent of the Lord lol.
Occult has a broad definiton and even christian religion, or any religion at that fits inside the definition of a cult or occult, so using that word means nothing to me because you ar an occultist aswell, but to me that word means nothing. Masons isn't a religion but a fraternal organisation, that has members from even evangelical baptist churches and methodists etc. stop being so paranoia about masons, they have nothing wrong. Remember that the great prophets of the OT were polygamists too :D
I've checked jesus words alot more closely than you have and you couldn't point any contradiction, Jesus said that there's no more marriage performed in the resurrection, not that marriage can't extend to heaven, and we believe that the marriages must be performed before the resurrection of the dead.
naaa if i was handing out stupid advice like telling ppl to commit suicide id just tell umm to become a mormon instead least they could have a few more years here before the punishment.
Book of mormon doesn't speak about the marriage in heaven, it's silent about the topic, because the book of mormon is all about the gospel of Christ, and we do compare it to the bible all the time, hence we have the crossrefrences in both books to eachother.
those groups that were formed after the death of christ are known as the primitive church and they had leaders after the apostles were killed, known as the church fathers, and they do teach the marriage, sorry, they don't conform with protestant thinking.
As I was able to use scriptures to show that it's not unbiblical but seems more biblical infact, but you didn't show any scriptures to make your point, which is exactly what I expexted.
There is none given in marriage in heaven. If no marriage, no sex, if no sex no children. It's really a no brainer. However, marriage on earth is another subject. SCRIPTURE OUTLINE PEOPLE DON'T GO TO HEAVEN AND STAY BUT JESUS COMES HERE TO REIGN. We come here to be with him read the closing chapters of revelation.
I am not a jw. However, I was directed to know this from eli an openairoutreach guy who came to asu. I am ex mormon. Mormons don't have a clear idea of what happens when christ comes again. They live for now and hope for eternity. Eternity in heaven May not be true from the revelations point of view. THINK ABOUT WHERE IS IT WRITTEN WE GO TO HEAVEN. i WANT VERSES.
I believe alittle of mormonism is true, I am even a little buddhist. But if you want an exact format of religion. I am gnostic, Because it seems more factual.
Unfortunately, you know as well as I do that God Follows a plan. That Plan is not Eternal marriage. If eternal marriage was true, This doctrine would certainly not be lost on the jews. The book of mormon says the gospel was pure out of their mouths but it was the gentiles that messed it up. Eternal marriage is corrupt doctrine.
Who says that the marriage plan is lost for the jews? Jewish scholars agre that modern judaism has very little to do with the ancient one, for example, you don't see these jews sacrificing rams or keeping their law as the ancient, nor do their other deeper doctrines conform either. Jews rejected the christ, but hundereds of years prior to that, they had apostasised from the true religion, so that is weak claim you have there. Are you a Jew? if not, why believe in their religion?
It's written in the doctrine and covenants, not much is written int the bibel, so much stuff missing from there, plus the church fathers believe that marriage continues in the eternities what is the reason those eastern orthodox believe it too.
eastern orthodox what ? catholics dont believe in eternal marriage at all , popes have written on that, and the Christ doesn't believe in it either. Stop perverting the bible please.
eastern orthodox do believe in the eternal marriage, but not the catholics. I know few orthodox in here and they say that's the case in their religion.
orthodoxes or denominations dont matter. The bible is not for individual interpretation. What it says is what it means and we will be married to Christ.
aaaa, we have volumes of books that talk about what happens when christ comes here again, more than anyone else and alos prophesies concerning the times. I gues it's you who knows nothing of the topic.
I see that you didn't watch my video completely because I did deal with that passage and I did also give a lot more in the support of the marriage after life.
I've read the closing chapters of revelation prabably more than you have.
Also, we who believe in Jesus are the bride and HE is the groom. We are not married to anyone else in heaven. There is no need for marriage... unless you are procreating to populate your own planet as you may believe. That is a whole other conversation. :-)
exept the fact that your claims have no logical no scriptural data to support them. Marriage to Jesus is purely symbolical, the bride is the church in this allegory, you can read more of that allegory from the sheperd of hermas. Are you really saying that we are married to Jesus in heaven, even men, is Jesus homosexual to you? quite blasphemous to me to think in a such a way.
tavlo, did you listen to any of the scriptures I quoted? you didn't really refute any of them in anyway, maybe you should try that before attacking this doctrine in general.
Don't attack me. I asked you questions that you have failed to answer. Quoting scripture from one part of the Bible and then the other is not making an argument. You plaining state that in the law of Moses a woman can remarry if her husband dies, and somehow come up with the idea that the first marriage is the eternal one and that after that it doesn't matter. What if you died (God forbid, and I'm not saying that sarcastically) and your wife is sealed to another man... God declares that your...
marriage is void. What will you do for eternity? Will you find other wives? I'm just asking so that you can think beyond the carnal. We will be like the angels... we will be spirit beings. Why then be married? What is the point? How can we procreate if we don't have bodies? See, that is the difference between LDS and what the Bible says. You believe God (the Father) has a body and that we are all his children and that we will return to him with bodies. This is not what the Bible says.
Bible says that resurrection is bodily, Christ appeared to his apostles and they touched and felt him and we are told in the new testament that we wil be changes to have similiar bodies as he has, sorry but this is very obvious in the bible.
It's also obvious that he appeared out of no where and disappeared. He was able to appear in the room without walking in it. In fact the disciples were hiding and were locked in when he appeared to them... that's why they freaked out.
So what if he appeared from nowhere, divine qualities will not limit the corporeal nature, even if he did disappear they could touch him before he left.
You think of marriage as a sexual thing. If it is symbolic what does is matter what gender we are? We will not have bodies like we have now. I think we will have bodies like Jesus after his resurrection. We can go in and out of dimensions, including the 3rd dimension. But there is no time, so how would gestation work? Why would be procreate?
Sex is part of marriage you know and that body of christ is very corporeal according to lukes account and paul. I'll make another video of this later aswell.
U have not established your claims but only give dogmatic opinnions with no support of anykind.
I'm asking you questions so that you can think beyond your indoctrination with the LDS. I haven't made any claims but my own thoughts of our bodies after death.
I can ask questions without giving answers... it's called thinking.
But you don't think yourself, your opinnions are common protestant doctrines from teh pulpits of the pastors, I have a video of our bodily nature in resurrection, check that out and try to claim that we are only spirits in heaven after that.
Bye the way, many angels in the old testmanet had bodies, so being an angel doesn't mean you have no body.
like angel is not an angel, similiar, but since the bible doesn't define an angel clearly it creates no problem for the lds. we have an definition of an angel in the Doctrine and Covenants.
So if an LDS husband dies (having been sealed in the Temple to his wife) and then the widow woman is sealed to another man... who's wife is she? Who will she be "eternally" married to? Is the first marriage not eternal?
Also, if this is something that happens in the world today and is sealed for eternity how come LDS believe that they can have more wives when they die?
Woman will be sealed only to a husband once, sealing can be discharged in some cases, but in general rule, the marriage thing will be setled during the millenium before the final resurrection, so what happens in this life, matters not. Your comment makes no contradiction or problem to this doctrine in any way. Did you ignore all the scriptures I gave?
How can "what happens in the life, matters not." yet you just claim in your video that what happens while we are a live here on earth will continue eternally in heaven? You are contradicting yourself, because this doctrine is not true. I heard all the scriptures you gave and the concept does not make sense. If you get your own planet and populate it with your wife (or wives), then what about your children who are LDS? Don't your sons get their own planets? Don't your daughters who have been...
married, or sealed to their husbands, get their own planet? How can you all live together in eternity together but have your own planets? It doesn't make any sense. Besides, there is no reference in the Bible that we will rule our own planets. This is LDS mythology.
Bible has no mention of planets being populated since it is not everything God has revealed, also the biblical writers thought that earth is flat and is build on pillars and that sky is a dome and has pillars to steady it, so obviously they had less light concerning eternal life, but now we have learned line upon line and precept upon precept, thre a little from joseph smith, and there some from Brigham Young etc.
The difference between you and me is that I don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, so any argument you give me about his "revelations" is void. Sorry. :-)
Well I don't believe in your interpretation and claim that the bible is all we have or will have, therefore your limitd understanding of the eternal life is something I don't accept, sorry ;)
If Mormonism is so true, how come you can't come to the same conclusion as Joseph Smith did by just reading the Bible, without the Book of Mormon? How come its so different? Wouldn't his revelation be the same as the Bible?
your comment nmakes no sense, and there's no contradiction in my claims. Our lds children can populate their planets, in fact probably they will populate their universes, being together as a family, doesn't require them to be under my roof, u do know that kids leave homes eventually, but still are someones childrena nd that family ties don't cease because of that.
It makes sense to any parent who has children moved allready out, but who still have them over for christmas and other holidays, who have their kids to write mothers day letters to their grandparents etc. yet they don't share the same house anymore, same can be applied to our state in heaven aswell, can you explain what is heaven like? is it guds, or is it a sphere like our earth, but heavenly in it's nature? without that understanding, heaven can be obscure place to look forward to.
It's a hope I look forward to. I don't have all the answers like you seem to.
What will you be doing in your heaven anyway? Will you have a house like you do now? How do you know that this earth now is not your Mormon heaven? Since there doesn't seem to be a difference.
So you create a planet of your offspring so that they can move away and have their own planets? What is the POINT?!?!?!?! That's like the world we live in now.
I ment that those things u brought up, don't matter in this life, because all the minute issues will be corrected before the resurrection, so all the divorce and sealing and dying, remarrying etc, al the complex issues they bring, matters not, because they will be dealt with before the end, during the millenium.
This question was a continuation of a conversation we were having a month ago. What the question is asking is... what's the point of being married on earth if it's going to be the same in heaven. If we can chose spouses in heaven then why do it now? That's what I was getting at.
Very good. However we need to remember that people who do not get a good chance to marry or people who have unfaithful spouses will get a chance to marry so they can obtain Exaltation.
When we stand before God, we stand before him as an individual. He cares about us individually as souls. Marriage does not guarantee us to be in heaven. This is an LDS made up doctrine. If you don't marry... will you not go to heaven? How about Paul the Apostle? He never married... will he not be in heaven because he never took a wife... nor never wanted to?
Many scholars actualy believe that paul was married, also the nag hammadi early christian writings say clearly that the apostles were with their wifes around jesus as a ring etc.
Marriage is only essential for exaltation, not for heaven itself.
Why would Paul say in 1 Corin. 7:8, "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I." if he was married?
I don't disagree that the disciples were married. Marriage is not the issue here, the issue is that it's something eternal. Why would we have marriage in the after life? What is the point of it?
What is the point in this life to be married? the same points, that are many, apply to the afterlife, love, joy, happiness, increase in family, continuing the plan of salvation to our children, increasing our Gods glory by adding more heirs to him and kingdoms and dominions. I think that even sex would be amazing blessing with perfect bodies, think about a climax that could last for hours, or better, weeks :D Don't try to say you wouldn't like it. I admit that I'm exited about it.
Omiolo, go read some of Jarkko1983s comments on the next page... this response thing got all mixed up and looks unrelated. His last comment was about having an orgasm for weeks if not months on end. That's why I said, this is all about sex... it wasn't me with the thoughts.
"His last comment was about having an orgasm for weeks if not months on end."
I believe he was goating you. Hence the goating symbol at the end of his sentence.
It is a sensationalist ANTImormon argument to get the readers fixed attention and yet create a sense of outrage.
an example would be Ted Haggard (famous Evangelist) who would talk in detail about the evils of homosexuality, soley for the purpose of being able to fixate on it. As it turns out Ted liked male prostitutes.
the biggest condemners of smith generally because of polygamy, and who claim it's all about sex, are usually people who are real sexoholics themself.
I used the sex as the last point in joy in heaven, and I think that you are deluding yourself if you wouldn't want to have that to continue, or then you just have never felt real love towards anyone, which is sad.
Sex isn't dirty or bad, it's beautiful if done in righteosness in proper marriage, why would you see it in any other way?????
I don't see it any other way, nor do I think sex is dirty or bad. You are assuming these things for some reason unknown to me... maybe a little projection? :-P
Anyway, I don't see a reason to argue with you about this subject because marriage has nothing to do with eternity. It was established on earth for us to be fulfilled and not lonely. Once I die (or I'm raptured) I will be fulfilled by God in eternity and won't need marriage to bridge any gaps. I will be with my creator and completed.
MMMM, adam and eve were married before they fell.
Christ came to rescue us from the fall to bring us back into that same state before the fall. So if they were married before the fall, then it means also that we are married also after we have been brought back to that perfect state of happiness. There's nothing in the dcriptures against that.
What I mean is, what is the point of having a spiritual body? I think the difference is that LDS believe that we existed before and we are going back to some kind of existence in a body like we have now, that can reproduce and have children, but that you will have your own planet to populate. I don't believe that is what heaven is. I believe heaven is being in the presence of God and nothing else matters. LDS have a mythology basically, that is not biblical. It's supposedly a revelation to JS.
Being in the presence of God and doing nothing else would be damn boring, no matter what the trance might be, but heaven is a topic not much revealed to other than lds.
I don't think being in my natural state with God is boring. It's fulfillment. What exactly will you be doing on your planet anyway? Besides having sex?
So what is God doing with his planets then??? I guess we would be doing the same thing. I think having sex would be more interesting than just being without doing anything.
Bye the way, my sex comment before wasn't ment to be taken too seriously, but evangelicals never understand such a thing.
No, I'm not simple so I don't know. You obviously know all the answers and why God does anything.
Look... you are already achieving "godhood" (if that's even a word). Congratulations. You are now able to live in the celestial kingdom and look down upon the rest of us.
"Since you have it all "revealed" and figured out"
I can offer you my personal belief or my understanding. As for the the LDS doctrine it is contained in the scriptures, if it isn't in the scriptures it isn't LDS doctrine. That seems to be a hard concept for some to understand.
If you want I can offer my opinion and my personal belief and give you my reasons. However, it is unfair to punish anyone else for the personal beliefs of one person.
in corinthians 7:8 u ned to see the context in verses 6-7, he speaks of permission, and not of commandment, so he speaks his opinnion on the current matter, byut not a eternal truth, he speaks , not the lord, see verse 12. He is addressing the people who are working as missionaries, and for a labour as that, it would be better not to be married for that time. See his other letters where he says to the bishops and deacons that it's essential to have a wife and a family, otherwise they disqualify.
Jarkko is right. Most scholars have concluded that Paul was a widower... his wife had already passed away.
Furthermore, Paul was speaking under specific circumstances to a specific group of people, his OPINION (not a law of God as he himself said) did not supercede the general laws given in scriptures like: Gen 2:18-24 Matt 19:5,6 1 Tim 4:1-3 Heb 13:4
The Bible never specifically says whether Paul was married or not. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:5, "Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas?" If Paul was married at one time, his wife likely passed away.
He was after all a faithful Jewish man following the traditions of the Jews, which included an arranged marriage at an early age.
I am giving you the scholarly examinations, not my own opinions.
It is true that a pious Jew was expected to marry. Some have speculated that Paul was widowed or divorced. There is also speculation that Paul's wife deserted him when he became a Christian.
Martin Luthor, for example, was one of the first to look into it who considered Paul a widower and explained so in many different instances.
that means alot coming from a satanist. The mormon teachings outside the bible are satanic making your words completely unreliable and you saying you understand scripture even more unreliable.
Gut: The mormon teachings outside the bible are satanic making your words completely unreliable...
Typical. Here I am, defending what the Bible actually teaches on a particular subject, giving multiple scriptures, inviting you and anybody else to read the context of those verses and study for themselves.
And there you are, taking 1 verse out of historical context and ignoring that Paul himself said it was his own opinion.
Who is unreliable? Who's teaching concepts "outside of the Bible"?
you are you ignore the simple biblical fact, its better to never give into your lust but if you must get married. It's not that complicated. You just twist scripture as you follow your cult to damnation.
Gutcheck: you ignore the simple biblical fact, its better to never give into your lust but if you must get married.
The only way you can come to that conclusion is by IGNORING ALL of the other verses in the Bible that speak concerning marriage.
You can do that all you want, but you can't claim that it is "Biblical fact" to ignore the other teachings in the Bible that outnumber Paul's opinion 5 to 1.
who gave you the holy spirit, bible clearly teaches that the holy ghost must be given by one who has received it in a unbroken lineage from the source, which is chsrist?
exept that the bible teaches this as I said, you can check my video, one true church as the mormons teach it, I think that I gave the holy ghost argument there aswell. If I didn't I'll make a full video on it seperately. Bible is full of scriptures stating that as a obvious fact and maybe one verse that can be twisted to mean something different. But this foruim is not about the holy ghost. go talk about that to my other video.
again that video is you using verses out of their context like all your videos are. You obviously have no understanding of scripture or you wouldnt attempt to say things that mormon apologists gave up on in debates long ago because its proveable utter nonsense.
Interesting that Mormons take the Bible as a whole when your own leader claimed that it wasn't translated properly and only he had the correct translation and completion of scriptures. So which is it? Seems like the Bible is flawed only when it doesn't fit with your doctrine and infallible when it does.
You can't have it both ways. We can argue for days about Paul being married or not, the fact remains that marriage does not save you.
majority says nothing of that sort, only some evangelical bible belt bashers who are "wannabe" scholars.
There are ancient apocryphal or secular christian writings that do mention Paul as a married man, so if the near contemporary documents don'd suffice, then nothing will. but there's more reason to believe he was married because of that record alone.
This is very sad but I'm afraid the mormonism, eventhou the members may look as nice people, is a lie of Satan.
emiliogim1964 6 months ago
Is this video some kind of joke?
emiliogim1964 6 months ago
Turn up the volume on your mic. I cant hear you any louder than a mumble :S
elleonhighheels 1 year ago
@irememberwhat They're homophobic towards Jesus. I'm kidding. Kinda. I think. :P
php12345 1 year ago
video wont work
HoneyBoy69 1 year ago
Listen people!!!!!!! We have a living Prophet! We know what we are talking about alright!! Thats all i got to say! Jesus was a Prophet and now President Monson Is a Prophet.
denesheo676 2 years ago
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6
Joseph didn't listen and Mormons today still don't listen.
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
Sorry to bust your bubble, but there's no getting around it. Jesus himself said "There is no marriage in heaven, nor are any given in marriage." If you were not married to your wife anymore, would you cease to love her? Would she cease to matter? Unless you chose to divorce her...
And come on, the story of Adam & Eve is an allegory. Another creation myth. Don't take it too factually - it's supposed to illustrate the nature of humanity. See "midrash".
Trillidotia 3 years ago
Jesus never said that there's no marriage in heaven, he only said that no marriage in the resurrection, and we don't marry in the resurrection.
What authority are you to say that adam and eve story is allegory???
Midrash, who wrote it and when, why isn't it in the bible? if the bible is all you need?
You didn't even watch mu whole video, because I clearly explained those words of Jesus.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
You can still love your wife after death - but there is no need for marriage in heaven. It's an earthly institution, for production of children in a stable relationship, so children would "belong" to their fathers. There's no procreation in heaven, no sex - we won't be so concerned with such banal behavior if we become some sort of exalted beings in the afterlife.
This attitude is a great example of Smith's preoccupation with "getting it on". It's actually pretty funny.
Trillidotia 3 years ago
you still gave no support for your claim. Read some studies on the ancient israelite religion, sex seems to be the very thing they belived that even God had with his two wifes. Backyardprofessor has videos on this "biblical context" he quotes the top christian scholars on the matter and demonstrates how it is prooved what the israelites believed originally. You have lost the debate allready because you have no supporting arguments from the bible to refute mine.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
@Jarkko1983 "It's an earthly institution" - Luke 20:34 - And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage.
This helps substantiate at least some of his/her statement.
php12345 1 year ago
Matt 10: 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth I came not to send peace, but a sword.35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and the daughter against her mother and the daughter in law against her mother in law 36 And a mans foes shall be they of his own household 37 He that love father or mother more than me is not worthy of me and he that love son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Temptuous2112 3 years ago
God says in revelations of HIS 144,000 Rev.14:4 "For they are spiritually undefiled, pure as virgins in body & mind, following the LAMB whever he goes.They have been purchased from among the men on the earth as a consecrated offering to God and the Lamb."
We see here clearly the 144,000 are virgins in BODY and mind. Who are they married to in heaven?
Temptuous2112 3 years ago
it says "as" virgins
they are undefiled, that doesn't restrict sex if it's in marriage, because sex in marriage is pure. Metaphors shouldn't be mis used out of their real message.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Who is the apostle Paul's wife in Heaven since he was not married? Who are his children? reread Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians pertaining marriage.
Corintians 7:8&9 So, I say to those who aren't married, and to widows-better to stay unmarried if you can, JUST AS I AM, But if you can't control yourselves, go ahead and marry. It is better to marry than burn with lust.
Temptuous2112 3 years ago
Paul was married according to ancient christian literary outside of the bible.
Pauls 7 th chapet in cor is only his opinnion and not God's law, Paul admits himself that he speaks and not te lord on this matter. Paul was giving an anvice to those labouring in the gospel not to get married because marriage would be slowing factor.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
@Jarkko1983 True about being his opinion. So Joseph Smith taught something different then what Jesus / apostles taught? Like a restoration of a principle that wasn't founded in the early Christian churches? Because if it was taught like Brigham and Joseph did, I don't think Paul would be speaking his opinion on such a matter so loosely.
php12345 1 year ago
Jesus is the context.What he says is law, anything else is to be compared to his words. Jesus is context you have no place to put it into context lol.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
"Jesus is context you have no place to put it into context lol."
That is the most ridiculous comment ever! Seems like you don't know what context means as a word, what matthew recorded as christ words, must be understood in it's context, why christ spoke what he spoke and to whom? I clearly understood the text in it's entirety unlike you.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
I dont need to read the bible to know that God loves us because I already know that. If you know anything about love, it brings people together, not break them apart. Our relationships with our children, spouses and family will not be done away in heaven.
dikensteign 3 years ago
Heaven is not about us. It's about Jesus. It's all about Jesus.
We are to make the best of our relationships here on earth because He commanded us to love one another so that we don't destroy each other while here on earth. But the first commandment is to love God.
It's about God... not us.
Tavlo 3 years ago 2
Thats the only purpose of love so we dont kill eachother? wow! He commanded us to love one another, marry and replenish the earth. Heaven is our home with heavenly father. Jesus is preparing it for us but we also have to be worthy to live with him. Do you even care about your family or what happens to them after death? Heaven would not be heaven without family. Why dont you understand that? God commanded us to love everyone not just him. if one cares not for his brother hes unworthy of heaven.
dikensteign 3 years ago
Caring about my family does not equal believing that we will be on a planet together and populate it. You are assuming an emotion when discussing doctrine. Whether or not I love my family or people around me does not determine that there is marriage in eternity or not.
Tavlo 3 years ago 2
Jesus and God is all about love, and that love is for us, and greatest joy of love is in a family unit, and god want's to bless us with that unity in heaven aswell.
Jesus and God loves us that's why God created the planet earth so that he could help us to become like he is, that we could be his heirs. Christ loved us so much that he was willing to pay the ultimate price so that we could have chance to partake of the diine nature if we believe in him and follow him.
So it's about God's family.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
You believe in a different god than the one in the Bible. You use the same words but have created your own meanings. In Judaism and in Christianity, the beliefs you are writing here are heresy.
Tavlo 3 years ago
jews believe in marriage after death so do the orthodox christians. yet you gave no demonstratable proof that I believe in a different god from the bible, I used the bible to demonstrate my point you didn't.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Mormonism is polytheistic & man centered.
Not the God of the Bible.
How come you can't come to the same conclusions about God without the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price? Where was Mormonism before Joseph Smith? Was Jesus' work here on earth not enough?
Tavlo 3 years ago
now you are going back to the general fundamental freak preaching. Christ's work was everything mormons would never say anything contrary. mormons were here before joseph during the 1's century, it was just restored again in the 19'th century. we can come to the same conclusion without the extra scriptures, if we read the ante-nicene church fathers, plus the bible doesn't contradict our views as I have demonstrated.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
@Tavlo
I guess Jesus's work here while on the earth was not enough. He was killed along with all of his Apostles. If it were enough would that have happened? His work on the hearts of men is a constant work. He is not dead he is risen and he still speaks. And the books you listed above are the word of God but they are only a few and there will be more and more forever. He is the same yesterday, today and forever...
RH50982 1 year ago
Not according to the early Christians, and what comes to the Judaism, see thebackyardprofessors video the biblical context, and you'll see some shocking news concerning the earliest Israelite religion from the studies of christian scholars.
Marriage in heaven is the dominant theme there as well
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
then you dont understand what Gods plan is.
God is still our heavenly father and our earthly father will still be our earthly father. Mary will still be Christs earthly mother. These dont go away when we die. God is very organized. A child can understand this. marriage is ordained of God and all things will become eternal save those that were not worthy of it. Eternal life is to live with our families forever with God, not without. The Bible give little to no info on this
dikensteign 3 years ago
we will be married to Christ, not to each other. We will be together, just not having sex and making babies. Your children will be with you if you go to heaven and they do too, but you will no longer be their boss. Jesus says explicitly that NO MARRIAGE exists in heaven. Ask yourself what God commanded Adam and Eve; He said to "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the Earth" So, when the Earth is full, i.e. in heaven, marriage is o longer neccessary.
apologeticsman 3 years ago
jesus never ever once says anything about that marriage doesn't exist in heaven! He says that there is no more marrying in the resurrection, you clearly didn't even watch my whole video and ignored all the scriptures put together. Church fathers also believed in marriage eternaly and also those eastern orthodox christians who claim to retain oldest doctrines that roman catholics forsook.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
im glad you think you are smarter than Jesus Christ.
Matthew 22:29-30 , if you think marriage is for eternal life you are going against christs own words.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Obviously you didn't watch the whole video where I explained that scripture. We don't marry in the resurrection, but all those affairs will be dealt with before the resurrection takes place. So ther will be no more marriages performed after resurrection, but that doesn't nullify those marriages that are performed before. No disputations of marriage wil exist in the resurrection, they are settled before that, that, was christ's point.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
you can't explain the scripture. You are mad and going against the Christians that formed groups directly after the death. You are preaching against the word of the bible and therefore you will be accursed.You are putting words in Christs mouth which you know the result of that is im sure.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
so you dont want to live with your family or your children forever? how selfish. i surely remember that God has said, "if ye are not one, ye are not mine." God has made certain promises to his people, such as the power to bind on earth and in heaven and whatever God brings together no man shall put asunder. We will be with our familys forever because thats what God intended for a fullness of happiness. would you want to be in heaven if the ones you loved could not be with you? no understanding.
dikensteign 3 years ago
yes because what you think God wants for us is better than what the bible says he wants for us. You are literally crazy to think our purpose on earth is to make a family for heaven. Our purpose is to spread the good news and let God use us to bring ppl to Him.There is no marriage in heaven.Seriously stop deciding what the bible says off the book of mormon. Read the bible and compare everything to it.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
the book of mormon doesnt say anything about eternal marriage. you are one sad individual if you think you would be happy without loved ones. Our purpose on earth is to have a family and procreate and teach the gospel. And family is important. That is how God set it up! if there is no family there is no society. The cealing power of God is to bind together on earth and in heaven. It is the power to bind families together because without eacother we cant return to heaven.
dikensteign 3 years ago
seriously thats so unbiblical its ridiculous, please i beg you read the new testament.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
He has a plan for us, but never has he said he will replace families in heaven. You cant get to heaven by yourself. God made man and women to be together!
dikensteign 3 years ago
you need to read the bible again very badly dude, paul never got married and hes the reason Christianity reached the gentiles. Christ even mentions ppl that became eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of God basicly to avoid their lust. And Christ clearly states theirs no marriage in heaven. You really really need to read the bible.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Many bible scholars do believe that paul was married. He was a jewish pharisee at first, and they were required to be married, so it doesn't make sense that paul could have been one without a marriage.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
you should really give Pauls writings another read and the gospels for that matter. And read it based on what Christ said instead of based on what your extra books say.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Gutcheckcoming, check out the "all comments" section. I went through this with him... but he's convinced he's right. Jesus is not God for these people... why should they listen to what He said?
Tavlo 3 years ago
yeah i know man i keep forgetting Joe Smith's word is more reliable than Christ's. Joe smith the masonic ,occultic, polygamist ,servent of the Lord lol.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Occult has a broad definiton and even christian religion, or any religion at that fits inside the definition of a cult or occult, so using that word means nothing to me because you ar an occultist aswell, but to me that word means nothing. Masons isn't a religion but a fraternal organisation, that has members from even evangelical baptist churches and methodists etc. stop being so paranoia about masons, they have nothing wrong. Remember that the great prophets of the OT were polygamists too :D
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
again thats not true. you can't just type a bunch of nonsense and pretend its true im sorry.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
I've checked jesus words alot more closely than you have and you couldn't point any contradiction, Jesus said that there's no more marriage performed in the resurrection, not that marriage can't extend to heaven, and we believe that the marriages must be performed before the resurrection of the dead.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
So you believe the resurrection of the dead is after you have lived in heaven with your wives? Please clarify.
Tavlo 3 years ago
"Jesus is not God for these people... why should they listen to what He said?"
-Well 3 nephi 11 Jesus declares to be the God of Israel and God of the whole earth, I don't see where you get this idea.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Gutcheck: Christ even mentions ppl that became eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of God basicly to avoid their lust.
So, would you conclude that people should commit suicide so that they can avoid sinning altogether. Why stop at lust?
smpf38 3 years ago
naaa if i was handing out stupid advice like telling ppl to commit suicide id just tell umm to become a mormon instead least they could have a few more years here before the punishment.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Gutcheck: if i was handing out stupid advice like telling ppl to commit suicide...
I just want to know if you are willing to be consistent in your interpretations.
smpf38 3 years ago
Book of mormon doesn't speak about the marriage in heaven, it's silent about the topic, because the book of mormon is all about the gospel of Christ, and we do compare it to the bible all the time, hence we have the crossrefrences in both books to eachother.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Your hate filled nonsense isn't supported in any way, while I supported my claims.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
those groups that were formed after the death of christ are known as the primitive church and they had leaders after the apostles were killed, known as the church fathers, and they do teach the marriage, sorry, they don't conform with protestant thinking.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
this guy is brainwashed like all the mormons..marriage in heaven?? hahahahahahahhaha..READ THE BIBLE
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
As I was able to use scriptures to show that it's not unbiblical but seems more biblical infact, but you didn't show any scriptures to make your point, which is exactly what I expexted.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
you took scriptures out of context once again and ignore Jesus Christ himself saying it isnt biblical.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Please don't resort to adhominim attacks. If you are unable to prove your point it is better to not comment than to insult.
SaintJimmyI 3 years ago
since Christ is our example to follow we believe we will do the following things in the next life
(1) 1 Peter 3:19,21,22
(2) 1 Peter 4:6
(3) D&C 138:19
(4) D&C 138:23-24
(5) D&C 138:32-35
(6) Isaiah 61:2
(7) D&C 138:55-57
(8) D&C 137:6
(9) D&C 130:2
omiolo 3 years ago
we believe that Christ is our ULTIMATE example. Not only in word but in deed.
omiolo 3 years ago
There is none given in marriage in heaven. If no marriage, no sex, if no sex no children. It's really a no brainer. However, marriage on earth is another subject. SCRIPTURE OUTLINE PEOPLE DON'T GO TO HEAVEN AND STAY BUT JESUS COMES HERE TO REIGN. We come here to be with him read the closing chapters of revelation.
ChildePC 3 years ago
Now you sound like a Jehovah's Witness.
Tavlo 3 years ago
"Now you sound like a Jehovah's Witness."
I will take as a compliment since they did stand up to Hitler while other Christian religions turned a blind eye to the atrocities!
omiolo 3 years ago
I was talking to ChildePC.
Tavlo 3 years ago
I am not a jw. However, I was directed to know this from eli an openairoutreach guy who came to asu. I am ex mormon. Mormons don't have a clear idea of what happens when christ comes again. They live for now and hope for eternity. Eternity in heaven May not be true from the revelations point of view. THINK ABOUT WHERE IS IT WRITTEN WE GO TO HEAVEN. i WANT VERSES.
ChildePC 3 years ago
childePC,
I am curious what is your current religious affiliation and background?
omiolo 3 years ago
I believe alittle of mormonism is true, I am even a little buddhist. But if you want an exact format of religion. I am gnostic, Because it seems more factual.
ChildePC 3 years ago
try to prove by facts seems quite unreligious, sorry, but pauls says that we are here to walk by faith rather than sight.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Unfortunately, you know as well as I do that God Follows a plan. That Plan is not Eternal marriage. If eternal marriage was true, This doctrine would certainly not be lost on the jews. The book of mormon says the gospel was pure out of their mouths but it was the gentiles that messed it up. Eternal marriage is corrupt doctrine.
ChildePC 3 years ago
Who says that the marriage plan is lost for the jews? Jewish scholars agre that modern judaism has very little to do with the ancient one, for example, you don't see these jews sacrificing rams or keeping their law as the ancient, nor do their other deeper doctrines conform either. Jews rejected the christ, but hundereds of years prior to that, they had apostasised from the true religion, so that is weak claim you have there. Are you a Jew? if not, why believe in their religion?
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
It's written in the doctrine and covenants, not much is written int the bibel, so much stuff missing from there, plus the church fathers believe that marriage continues in the eternities what is the reason those eastern orthodox believe it too.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
eastern orthodox what ? catholics dont believe in eternal marriage at all , popes have written on that, and the Christ doesn't believe in it either. Stop perverting the bible please.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
eastern orthodox do believe in the eternal marriage, but not the catholics. I know few orthodox in here and they say that's the case in their religion.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
orthodoxes or denominations dont matter. The bible is not for individual interpretation. What it says is what it means and we will be married to Christ.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
aaaa, we have volumes of books that talk about what happens when christ comes here again, more than anyone else and alos prophesies concerning the times. I gues it's you who knows nothing of the topic.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
I see that you didn't watch my video completely because I did deal with that passage and I did also give a lot more in the support of the marriage after life.
I've read the closing chapters of revelation prabably more than you have.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Also, we who believe in Jesus are the bride and HE is the groom. We are not married to anyone else in heaven. There is no need for marriage... unless you are procreating to populate your own planet as you may believe. That is a whole other conversation. :-)
Tavlo 3 years ago
exept the fact that your claims have no logical no scriptural data to support them. Marriage to Jesus is purely symbolical, the bride is the church in this allegory, you can read more of that allegory from the sheperd of hermas. Are you really saying that we are married to Jesus in heaven, even men, is Jesus homosexual to you? quite blasphemous to me to think in a such a way.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
tavlo, did you listen to any of the scriptures I quoted? you didn't really refute any of them in anyway, maybe you should try that before attacking this doctrine in general.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Don't attack me. I asked you questions that you have failed to answer. Quoting scripture from one part of the Bible and then the other is not making an argument. You plaining state that in the law of Moses a woman can remarry if her husband dies, and somehow come up with the idea that the first marriage is the eternal one and that after that it doesn't matter. What if you died (God forbid, and I'm not saying that sarcastically) and your wife is sealed to another man... God declares that your...
Tavlo 3 years ago
marriage is void. What will you do for eternity? Will you find other wives? I'm just asking so that you can think beyond the carnal. We will be like the angels... we will be spirit beings. Why then be married? What is the point? How can we procreate if we don't have bodies? See, that is the difference between LDS and what the Bible says. You believe God (the Father) has a body and that we are all his children and that we will return to him with bodies. This is not what the Bible says.
Tavlo 3 years ago
Bible says that resurrection is bodily, Christ appeared to his apostles and they touched and felt him and we are told in the new testament that we wil be changes to have similiar bodies as he has, sorry but this is very obvious in the bible.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
It's also obvious that he appeared out of no where and disappeared. He was able to appear in the room without walking in it. In fact the disciples were hiding and were locked in when he appeared to them... that's why they freaked out.
Tavlo 3 years ago
So what if he appeared from nowhere, divine qualities will not limit the corporeal nature, even if he did disappear they could touch him before he left.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
failed to answer? I have answered everything quite well if you look above, but you have no real structure to your own claims.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
I'm not claiming anything, just asking questions.
Tavlo 3 years ago
You think of marriage as a sexual thing. If it is symbolic what does is matter what gender we are? We will not have bodies like we have now. I think we will have bodies like Jesus after his resurrection. We can go in and out of dimensions, including the 3rd dimension. But there is no time, so how would gestation work? Why would be procreate?
Tavlo 3 years ago
Sex is part of marriage you know and that body of christ is very corporeal according to lukes account and paul. I'll make another video of this later aswell.
U have not established your claims but only give dogmatic opinnions with no support of anykind.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
I'm asking you questions so that you can think beyond your indoctrination with the LDS. I haven't made any claims but my own thoughts of our bodies after death.
I can ask questions without giving answers... it's called thinking.
Tavlo 3 years ago 2
But you don't think yourself, your opinnions are common protestant doctrines from teh pulpits of the pastors, I have a video of our bodily nature in resurrection, check that out and try to claim that we are only spirits in heaven after that.
Bye the way, many angels in the old testmanet had bodies, so being an angel doesn't mean you have no body.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Why then would he say that we will be like the angels? What's the difference?
Tavlo 3 years ago
like angel is not an angel, similiar, but since the bible doesn't define an angel clearly it creates no problem for the lds. we have an definition of an angel in the Doctrine and Covenants.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
So if an LDS husband dies (having been sealed in the Temple to his wife) and then the widow woman is sealed to another man... who's wife is she? Who will she be "eternally" married to? Is the first marriage not eternal?
Also, if this is something that happens in the world today and is sealed for eternity how come LDS believe that they can have more wives when they die?
Tavlo 3 years ago
Woman will be sealed only to a husband once, sealing can be discharged in some cases, but in general rule, the marriage thing will be setled during the millenium before the final resurrection, so what happens in this life, matters not. Your comment makes no contradiction or problem to this doctrine in any way. Did you ignore all the scriptures I gave?
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
How can "what happens in the life, matters not." yet you just claim in your video that what happens while we are a live here on earth will continue eternally in heaven? You are contradicting yourself, because this doctrine is not true. I heard all the scriptures you gave and the concept does not make sense. If you get your own planet and populate it with your wife (or wives), then what about your children who are LDS? Don't your sons get their own planets? Don't your daughters who have been...
Tavlo 3 years ago
married, or sealed to their husbands, get their own planet? How can you all live together in eternity together but have your own planets? It doesn't make any sense. Besides, there is no reference in the Bible that we will rule our own planets. This is LDS mythology.
Tavlo 3 years ago
Bible has no mention of planets being populated since it is not everything God has revealed, also the biblical writers thought that earth is flat and is build on pillars and that sky is a dome and has pillars to steady it, so obviously they had less light concerning eternal life, but now we have learned line upon line and precept upon precept, thre a little from joseph smith, and there some from Brigham Young etc.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
The difference between you and me is that I don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, so any argument you give me about his "revelations" is void. Sorry. :-)
Tavlo 3 years ago
Well I don't believe in your interpretation and claim that the bible is all we have or will have, therefore your limitd understanding of the eternal life is something I don't accept, sorry ;)
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
If Mormonism is so true, how come you can't come to the same conclusion as Joseph Smith did by just reading the Bible, without the Book of Mormon? How come its so different? Wouldn't his revelation be the same as the Bible?
Tavlo 3 years ago
your comment nmakes no sense, and there's no contradiction in my claims. Our lds children can populate their planets, in fact probably they will populate their universes, being together as a family, doesn't require them to be under my roof, u do know that kids leave homes eventually, but still are someones childrena nd that family ties don't cease because of that.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
How does this make sense?
Tavlo 3 years ago
It makes sense to any parent who has children moved allready out, but who still have them over for christmas and other holidays, who have their kids to write mothers day letters to their grandparents etc. yet they don't share the same house anymore, same can be applied to our state in heaven aswell, can you explain what is heaven like? is it guds, or is it a sphere like our earth, but heavenly in it's nature? without that understanding, heaven can be obscure place to look forward to.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
It's a hope I look forward to. I don't have all the answers like you seem to.
What will you be doing in your heaven anyway? Will you have a house like you do now? How do you know that this earth now is not your Mormon heaven? Since there doesn't seem to be a difference.
Tavlo 3 years ago
So you create a planet of your offspring so that they can move away and have their own planets? What is the POINT?!?!?!?! That's like the world we live in now.
Tavlo 3 years ago
I ment that those things u brought up, don't matter in this life, because all the minute issues will be corrected before the resurrection, so all the divorce and sealing and dying, remarrying etc, al the complex issues they bring, matters not, because they will be dealt with before the end, during the millenium.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
So why get married while on earth?
Tavlo 3 years ago
"So why get married while on earth?"
Because there's no more marriage after the final resurrection
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
This question was a continuation of a conversation we were having a month ago. What the question is asking is... what's the point of being married on earth if it's going to be the same in heaven. If we can chose spouses in heaven then why do it now? That's what I was getting at.
Tavlo 3 years ago
Very good. However we need to remember that people who do not get a good chance to marry or people who have unfaithful spouses will get a chance to marry so they can obtain Exaltation.
EverASurprise 3 years ago
yeah, but that chance will be given to them before the final resurrection, when both just and the unjust will be brought efore god to be judged.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
When we stand before God, we stand before him as an individual. He cares about us individually as souls. Marriage does not guarantee us to be in heaven. This is an LDS made up doctrine. If you don't marry... will you not go to heaven? How about Paul the Apostle? He never married... will he not be in heaven because he never took a wife... nor never wanted to?
Tavlo 3 years ago
Many scholars actualy believe that paul was married, also the nag hammadi early christian writings say clearly that the apostles were with their wifes around jesus as a ring etc.
Marriage is only essential for exaltation, not for heaven itself.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Why would Paul say in 1 Corin. 7:8, "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I." if he was married?
I don't disagree that the disciples were married. Marriage is not the issue here, the issue is that it's something eternal. Why would we have marriage in the after life? What is the point of it?
Tavlo 3 years ago
And what do you mean by exaltation?
Tavlo 3 years ago
What is the point in this life to be married? the same points, that are many, apply to the afterlife, love, joy, happiness, increase in family, continuing the plan of salvation to our children, increasing our Gods glory by adding more heirs to him and kingdoms and dominions. I think that even sex would be amazing blessing with perfect bodies, think about a climax that could last for hours, or better, weeks :D Don't try to say you wouldn't like it. I admit that I'm exited about it.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
That's all this is about.... it's about sex. That's how I view Joseph Smith, his greatest interest.
Tavlo 3 years ago
"That's all this is about.... it's about sex"
it has been my experience that those who think that its about sex, can only think about sex. I think it is called projection!
omiolo 3 years ago
Omiolo, go read some of Jarkko1983s comments on the next page... this response thing got all mixed up and looks unrelated. His last comment was about having an orgasm for weeks if not months on end. That's why I said, this is all about sex... it wasn't me with the thoughts.
Tavlo 3 years ago
"His last comment was about having an orgasm for weeks if not months on end."
I believe he was goating you. Hence the goating symbol at the end of his sentence.
It is a sensationalist ANTImormon argument to get the readers fixed attention and yet create a sense of outrage.
an example would be Ted Haggard (famous Evangelist) who would talk in detail about the evils of homosexuality, soley for the purpose of being able to fixate on it. As it turns out Ted liked male prostitutes.
omiolo 3 years ago
I read what he wrote. If he meant something else, then let him speak for himself.
Tavlo 3 years ago
the biggest condemners of smith generally because of polygamy, and who claim it's all about sex, are usually people who are real sexoholics themself.
I used the sex as the last point in joy in heaven, and I think that you are deluding yourself if you wouldn't want to have that to continue, or then you just have never felt real love towards anyone, which is sad.
Sex isn't dirty or bad, it's beautiful if done in righteosness in proper marriage, why would you see it in any other way?????
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
I don't see it any other way, nor do I think sex is dirty or bad. You are assuming these things for some reason unknown to me... maybe a little projection? :-P
Anyway, I don't see a reason to argue with you about this subject because marriage has nothing to do with eternity. It was established on earth for us to be fulfilled and not lonely. Once I die (or I'm raptured) I will be fulfilled by God in eternity and won't need marriage to bridge any gaps. I will be with my creator and completed.
Tavlo 3 years ago
MMMM, adam and eve were married before they fell.
Christ came to rescue us from the fall to bring us back into that same state before the fall. So if they were married before the fall, then it means also that we are married also after we have been brought back to that perfect state of happiness. There's nothing in the dcriptures against that.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
"What is the point of it?"
Happiness!!
Happiness is the object and design of our existence!
omiolo 3 years ago
What I mean is, what is the point of having a spiritual body? I think the difference is that LDS believe that we existed before and we are going back to some kind of existence in a body like we have now, that can reproduce and have children, but that you will have your own planet to populate. I don't believe that is what heaven is. I believe heaven is being in the presence of God and nothing else matters. LDS have a mythology basically, that is not biblical. It's supposedly a revelation to JS.
Tavlo 3 years ago
Being in the presence of God and doing nothing else would be damn boring, no matter what the trance might be, but heaven is a topic not much revealed to other than lds.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
So you are the only ones with revelation?
I don't think being in my natural state with God is boring. It's fulfillment. What exactly will you be doing on your planet anyway? Besides having sex?
Tavlo 3 years ago
So what is God doing with his planets then??? I guess we would be doing the same thing. I think having sex would be more interesting than just being without doing anything.
Bye the way, my sex comment before wasn't ment to be taken too seriously, but evangelicals never understand such a thing.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Is anything you are saying meant to be taken seriously?
Just kidding... it was just too easy. :-)
I don't know what God is doing with planets, I'll find out when I see Him in eternity... I'll let you know then.
Tavlo 3 years ago
you dont know why God creates worlds? Then what do you think he is doing here on this world? It should be very simple and obvious to you.
dikensteign 3 years ago
No, I'm not simple so I don't know. You obviously know all the answers and why God does anything.
Look... you are already achieving "godhood" (if that's even a word). Congratulations. You are now able to live in the celestial kingdom and look down upon the rest of us.
Tavlo 3 years ago
" that you will have your own planet to populate."
some one should put down the ANTImormon literature and really learn what we believe!
BTW, we have these things called scriptures (they contain our beliefs)
omiolo 3 years ago
So tell me EXACTLY what you believe will happen after? Since you have it all "revealed" and figured out. Convince me.
Tavlo 3 years ago
"Since you have it all "revealed" and figured out"
I can offer you my personal belief or my understanding. As for the the LDS doctrine it is contained in the scriptures, if it isn't in the scriptures it isn't LDS doctrine. That seems to be a hard concept for some to understand.
If you want I can offer my opinion and my personal belief and give you my reasons. However, it is unfair to punish anyone else for the personal beliefs of one person.
omiolo 3 years ago
You still haven't answered my question. What will LDS be doing in the afterlife? According to your "scriptures".
Tavlo 3 years ago
"You still haven't answered my question."
yes, because I wanted clarification before I answered
omiolo 3 years ago
in corinthians 7:8 u ned to see the context in verses 6-7, he speaks of permission, and not of commandment, so he speaks his opinnion on the current matter, byut not a eternal truth, he speaks , not the lord, see verse 12. He is addressing the people who are working as missionaries, and for a labour as that, it would be better not to be married for that time. See his other letters where he says to the bishops and deacons that it's essential to have a wife and a family, otherwise they disqualify.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
What I'm telling you is that Paul was NOT married... so how will be exalted or whatever you call it?
Tavlo 3 years ago
Jarkko is right. Most scholars have concluded that Paul was a widower... his wife had already passed away.
Furthermore, Paul was speaking under specific circumstances to a specific group of people, his OPINION (not a law of God as he himself said) did not supercede the general laws given in scriptures like: Gen 2:18-24 Matt 19:5,6 1 Tim 4:1-3 Heb 13:4
smpf38 3 years ago
uhh nope , most scholars say he was single very few made the widower conclusion.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
The Bible never specifically says whether Paul was married or not. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:5, "Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas?" If Paul was married at one time, his wife likely passed away.
He was after all a faithful Jewish man following the traditions of the Jews, which included an arranged marriage at an early age.
smpf38 3 years ago
umm pharisees didnt do arranged marriages, there were lots of sects of judaism.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
I am giving you the scholarly examinations, not my own opinions.
It is true that a pious Jew was expected to marry. Some have speculated that Paul was widowed or divorced. There is also speculation that Paul's wife deserted him when he became a Christian.
Martin Luthor, for example, was one of the first to look into it who considered Paul a widower and explained so in many different instances.
smpf38 3 years ago
And many say he never married. Don't just leave off the ones ya dont like. Majority say he was never married.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
The bottom line is that Paul's letter to the Corinthians does not say what you claim it says.
You ignore what these say about marriage: Gen 2:18-24 Matt 19:5,6 1 Tim 4:1-3 and Heb 13:4
You ignore what these say about having children: Gen 1:28 (God's first commandment given in the Biblical text) and Psalms. 127:3-5
Mormons take in the Bible as a whole. You have taken one verse (an admitted opinion) out of context and converted it into a general law of God.
You are wrong.
smpf38 3 years ago
that means alot coming from a satanist. The mormon teachings outside the bible are satanic making your words completely unreliable and you saying you understand scripture even more unreliable.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Gut: The mormon teachings outside the bible are satanic making your words completely unreliable...
Typical. Here I am, defending what the Bible actually teaches on a particular subject, giving multiple scriptures, inviting you and anybody else to read the context of those verses and study for themselves.
And there you are, taking 1 verse out of historical context and ignoring that Paul himself said it was his own opinion.
Who is unreliable? Who's teaching concepts "outside of the Bible"?
smpf38 3 years ago
you are you ignore the simple biblical fact, its better to never give into your lust but if you must get married. It's not that complicated. You just twist scripture as you follow your cult to damnation.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Gutcheck: you ignore the simple biblical fact, its better to never give into your lust but if you must get married.
The only way you can come to that conclusion is by IGNORING ALL of the other verses in the Bible that speak concerning marriage.
You can do that all you want, but you can't claim that it is "Biblical fact" to ignore the other teachings in the Bible that outnumber Paul's opinion 5 to 1.
smpf38 3 years ago
not at all you are imposing your will on the text because you do not have the holy spirit and therefore do not understand it.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Very funny. How's this:
My holy spirit can beat up your holy spirit.
smpf38 3 years ago 2
LMAO... okay, all arguing aside... smpf38 THAT was hilarious.
Thanks for the chuckle. :-)
Tavlo 3 years ago
haha childish but funny because your demon definetley can't beat the holy spirit lol.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
who gave you the holy spirit, bible clearly teaches that the holy ghost must be given by one who has received it in a unbroken lineage from the source, which is chsrist?
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Nope you get the holy spirit from God not some bs lineage.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
exept that the bible teaches this as I said, you can check my video, one true church as the mormons teach it, I think that I gave the holy ghost argument there aswell. If I didn't I'll make a full video on it seperately. Bible is full of scriptures stating that as a obvious fact and maybe one verse that can be twisted to mean something different. But this foruim is not about the holy ghost. go talk about that to my other video.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
again that video is you using verses out of their context like all your videos are. You obviously have no understanding of scripture or you wouldnt attempt to say things that mormon apologists gave up on in debates long ago because its proveable utter nonsense.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Interesting that Mormons take the Bible as a whole when your own leader claimed that it wasn't translated properly and only he had the correct translation and completion of scriptures. So which is it? Seems like the Bible is flawed only when it doesn't fit with your doctrine and infallible when it does.
You can't have it both ways. We can argue for days about Paul being married or not, the fact remains that marriage does not save you.
Tavlo 3 years ago
Tavlo: Interesting that Mormons take the Bible as a whole when your own leader claimed that it wasn't translated properly...
I can hardly think of an instance where the Bible "doesn't fit with LDS doctrine". Here is one example though:
In Exodus, the text says that Pharaoh hardened his heart (Ex 8:15, 32) but in other places it says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 9:7, 10:20).
Joseph Smith explained that it is best to understand that it was Pharoah who hardened his own heart.
smpf38 3 years ago
"So which is it? Seems like the Bible is flawed only when it doesn't fit with your doctrine and infallible when it does."
-It's not infallible in any case.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
you just twist the scriptures to fit your own will. Context is key and you never use it.
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
majority says nothing of that sort, only some evangelical bible belt bashers who are "wannabe" scholars.
There are ancient apocryphal or secular christian writings that do mention Paul as a married man, so if the near contemporary documents don'd suffice, then nothing will. but there's more reason to believe he was married because of that record alone.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago