Pedro the Lion - Be Thou My Vision

[drgonzosfear]

what the fuck guitar is that

[iamnotlost1]

This song is one of my favorite Hymns, sung by one of the most sincere artists alive today.

[thecomfortisnow]

the raw emotion is what makes dave awesome.

[cheanator]

the last note was out of tune lol but good song

[randomnothingnis]

I've been listening to him for years, and have had bouts with faith, but it doesn't matter if you're faithfull or less, he's extremely talented and can write some of the most amazing music, in creativity and profoundness. Listen to "Priests and Paramedics", that song is genius.

[mattmaes]

@canucktheclown that's a matter of taste. but I'm not going to get into a name-calling match over a song about God.

[mattmaes]

wow... he needs to pick it up a bit... falling asleep...

[mcbrown7]

I love this song, but I don't understand why people like David Bazan's version so much. Here's why:

1. David Bazan's lack of faith is completely contrary to the words of this song...it's unfitting that he would sing it.

2. He is playing this as well as any average Joe could by getting the chords off the internet.

3. His voice isn't that great.

I just don't understand the appeal of this rendition at all. Could someone explain that to me?

[DojiOkita]

@mcbrown7

This is a pretty old video and from when he was a pretty devout Christian. So your number 1 doesn't really apply.

[motayl0one]

@mcbrown7

You're right David Bazan has changed. But the guy you see in this video is expressing his faith in God. His voice doesn't matter. his musical ability doesn't matter. His faith is what matters. I'm not devout and even I can appreciate that and if you can't i feel sorry for you.

[msoccergirl]

@pleasefindnemo Yes, I do. I think He's with all us, throughout our lives. He listens to all our prayers, even the ones from the people who don't believe in Him.

[ryan82scott]

David has the same trouble that many reasonable people have- how can you believe in the untangible? Even as a believer, I admittedly have these same issues from time to time. Still, this begs some questions- if heaven was tangible, what would it look like? Could we touch it? See it? How do we know that it isn't right in front of us? If something so great existed, that which is beyond any human effort or reward, what leads us to believe that our senses could even handle it?

[TheImmortalTree]

@ryan82scott miracles ..and many other confirmations....ask God to show you how real he is

[msoccergirl]

@cleborptheretard He's been with you through it all, even if you can't tell. Ask Him for strength when you need it, patience or faith, or anything else. He's always there for you because He loves you, even if you don't believe in Him.

[pleasefindnemo]

@msoccergirl Question: do you think that God hears the prayers of the unbelievers?

[zoomer51]

shity

[ianbob]

Transcendent.

[kkkkkkatherine]

Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;

Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art

Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,

Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.

Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;

I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;

Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;

Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one

[wcurtis88]

Its stunning. Hymns deserve to be revived as the folk art that they are. This is the blues, a stunning longing for an escape from injustice and oppression.

Whether you take it as praise to God or folk art. Its amazing.

[jedsky2506]

love it

[rom116bda]

Whoa how did we take an ancient hymn ABOUT GOD (aka Jehova or Yaweh) and turn it into a discussion about creation and the existence of God? Wow that amazes me! This hymn is about God (aka Jehova or Yaweh) consuming a person so that they are made to be more like HIM. Not about whether or not there is a God? Is that even a question? "The fool has said in his heart there is no God." Psalm 14:1.

[shadow2501]

The idea of a deist interests me. Why bother believing in a god who has nothing to do with you? If he doesn't interact with you, nothing you say matters, nothing you think matters. What makes it any different than someone who doesn't believe in that aloof god? I personally have too much experience with a God that does have something to do with us, through all the things created in this world, and all the crap and the joys that I've seen. While it won't be for everyone here, it's Jesus for me :)

[HelloHelicopter]

That is one form of the idea yes. but Diesm doesnt necessarily mean "belief in a god that has nothing to do with you", in the kinda watch maker god analogy

if you check out the FAQ on deism(dot)com it talks about how some diests think god does take part in human interaction. and that some diests pray and believe to have a relationship with their god.

Diesm is just the idea that God's existence is not pivoted on faith or revelation, but reason.

[PeriodDramaAddict15]

Amen!

[sophlover]

Some people think that some version of the cosmological argument, which requires either a first cause or a necessary being that causes contingent beings, is valid, thus requiring at least some kind of godlike creator. At the same time, accepting this does not entail the existence of Yaweh or Allah or anything of that sort. Hence, if you find these arguments persuasive, but do not see any other evidence for the existence of a personal God, then deism can be rather attractive.

[brianjbean]

i guess it depends on the nature of the "evidence." that term is usually used scientifically but i regularly have spiritual experiences that are powerful evidence to my soul that there is a god who cares, who is involved. for many, realizing that crap happens no matter how good you are is what drives them towards deism, but this also indicates a fundamental misunderstanding for the purpose of life in the first place.

[sophlover]

Of course, the kind of evidence that you are putting forward is a sort of argument from religious experience which, though it is often tremendously persuasive to the subject that has the experiences, are often not helpful for establishing a solid basis for the existence of a personal god to others more generally. Part of the difficulty is that, if one is committed to some kind of orthodox Christian view, then one has to say that...

[sophlover]

other seemingly equally genuine experiences that are reported in very different faiths, e.g. Buddhism or New Age faiths, claim (with seemingly just as good evidence and sincerity on the part of those reporting the experiences) are either demonic or faking it. Christian responses usually rely on the former, given that the reporters seem just as sincere as the Christians, but one often has to posit this even if there seems to be very little that is "demonic" about the experience itself.

[sophlover]

Thus, the "evidence" needed to refute the conflicting claim is dependent upon things outside of the experience itself, seemingly undermining the original argument from religious experience.

Just FYI, I am, myself, a Christian who has had religious experiences. However, I do not think that, because of the problems that I listed above, anyone should take my religious experiences seriously as such without evidence independent from my reported experiences.

[brianjbean]

well no one can live on "borrowed light" anyway, so trying to convince others that god exists based on your own experiences can only go so far, it can only serve to plant a seed of faith. the hearers of the word must seek out their own experiences to grow their own faith, and it must be a matter of faith or else there can be no room for mercy or the atonement. to sin against a perfect knowledge of god would be irredeemable, so to not have a perfect knowledge is what saves us in the end.

[sirwooley]

@brianjbean I agree on the argument you're making completely. I myself am an Atheist though, and believe so firmly after looking over any evidence I've come upon. I have respect for anyone of any religion, whether it be Christianity or Muslim or Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist. But I believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and should equally respect other's beliefs.

Now if only we could stop killing each other over different religious viewpoints...

[brianjbean]

@sirwooley people kill each other for many reasons. socialist and communist movements butchered millions and were atheistic by nature if not specifically done in the name of atheism. christian theology preaches that the spirit of contention is of the devil and we are to love our enemies, pray for them who do us harm and forgive them unconditionally. many religions embrace this line of thinking also. but we live in a fallen world where evil people will use religion or atheism to their own ends.

[captainphrank]

@brianjbean excellent response!

[MishaVargas]

@brianjbean We never fell; we started at the bottom. Were would we have fallen from? Show me the high cliffs of the flowering mesa.

This world is not fallen.

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas bottom of what? 

[MishaVargas]

@brianjbean It's a simple metaphor, and it's YOUR metaphor. You said this was a fallen world. This was meant to explain "evil people [using] religion or atheism to their own ends", "butchering millions".

But to fall from moral heights requires there to have existed, at some time in the past, an exemplary period of peace, love, and pleasure. I call into question that assertion.

What I know of the world, it has been full of pain, death, and struggle from the beginning, including man's beginning.

[jcwk87]

@MishaVargas Hi there. Let me try to explain from a Christian perspective, seeing as this is where brianjbean is coming from. The "fallen world" is used to describe the state of the world after Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, after being tempted by the serpent. The world is ''fallen" in the sense that Adam and Eve now knew evil, being equal with God. Evidence of this is that they then became ashamed of their nakedness.

[MishaVargas]

@jcwk87 I don't actually need anything explained to me; I'm completely familiar with Christianity. I do live in the U.S., after all. Thanks though.

(Also, I don't really believe in "perspectives" when it comes to objective reality, which is what we're discussing.)

[jcwk87]

@MishaVargas You can refer to the first few chapters of Genesis in the Bible if you're interested in the textual evidence. :)

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas yes, fallen in the sense that we live in an imperfect world when once it was perfect...i do come from the christian perspective of the garden of eden, etc... you may not accept that tradition and that's fine but it's just your opinion. i hope you can respect mine as I respect yours.

[MishaVargas]

@brianjbean What you believe is not a "perspective", but an unsupported assertion. If we merely had different perspectives, we might agree on the nature of objective reality. We don't. And as the person in a position of intellectual strength, I don't think I'll take up your offer of respecting your beliefs.

I've said my peace, and publicly challenged your assertion that there was once utopia. That's enough for me.

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas I believe what I believe because of the pure love and humility that I have felt while reading and studying about God and Jesus Christ. If being right means showing the same ugly, elitist character you display, i would rather be wrong. I don't want to live my life looking down my nose at other people the way you think phony intellectualism entitles you to do.My Christian faith entitles me to nothing....

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas ...It actually demands that I live as an example and the embodiment of the teachings of Jesus Christ.However, despite my best intentions I admit that i fail most of the time, hence the expression "fallen."It simply means mankind is imperfect. We make mistakes, we hurt one another and we FALL short of any Christian or Secular Humanist ideals of moral behavior.

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas and when i asked "bottom of what"? i was just trying to get you to clarify what "the bottom" was - which was your expression. If there's a bottom, then there must be a top, right? if there is a higher plane, an "up" or "the top" and we are some creator's or God's children, then how did we get from there to here? it's just the line of thinking behind the christian tradition to explain the fall. but if you don't except any of it, then it's moot.

[MishaVargas]

@brianjbean "If there's a bottom, then there must be a top, right?"

Not if you mean it literally. If we're still in a moral metaphor, I think there are lower and higher (more or less harmful) states of coexistence between conscious beings which are capable of suffering and pleasure.

But the acts of rape, murder, and cannibalism have existed before men existed to commit them. This is a certainty.

"[I]f you don't except any of it, then it's moot."

I except it, but I don't accept it.

☮

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas how can it be certain when mankind is the only moral being? Or should we be locking up animals for committing rape and murder also? I do believe it is a matter of perspective. The only thing certain about science is that the science will keep changing. Misha - is there any way for us to be friends despite our disagreement?

[MishaVargas]

@brianjbean Mankind is not the only moral being.

"is there any way for us to be friends despite our disagreement?"

There could be, as I don't need to agree with everything, or respect everything that a friend of mine believes. I can love the person. So I COULD be friends with you...if you didn't think I was a phony intellectual, looking down my nose at you, showing an ugly, elitist character.

Brian, I don't think I'm better than you, I just think I'm right about this.

[brianjbean]

@MishaVargas Oh good.

[warofrazors999]

@brianjbean but christians like G,W, use religion as a background for their motives..right or wrong...and right or wrong are opinions people have, and if they have religion then most of their right and wrongs are religious opinions. Just like the terrorist that bomb shit thinking there going to get a million virgins in heaven. idk how to say what i'm trying to say..

[brianjbean]

@warofrazors999 It's pretty offensive to compare GW to terrorists simply because they both think what they are doing is right. He never did anything in the name of Jesus Christ or his religion but you're attributing his actions - which you disagree with, to his religion, implying that religious people should not be allowed to be in government because their religious beliefs may affect public policy. that's a bigoted position to take.

[warofrazors999]

@brianjbean I didnt compare them together I compared each side to their own religious beliefs. Also yes...separation of church and state.

[brianjbean]

@warofrazors999 wow, you're talking about barring anybody with religious beliefs from government. - open, sanctioned discrimination which is expressly prohibited by the constitution which you pretend to appeal to. this is what is so dangerous with hostile secularism, you're completely disregarding the establishment clause that bars the government from constraining religious practice, oh and by the way free speech, and saying the government should have the right to dictate matters of conscience.

[brianjbean]

@warofrazors999...even wikipedia states "The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion." you are arguing for an establishment of non-religion. i suggest you go back and read the first amendment again because you are completely ignorant on this topic.

[warofrazors999]

@brianjbean Just because it says that doesn't mean the presidents don't use their religion for there motives. What you said just says there not supposed to...

[brianjbean]

@warofrazors999 right but they're allowed to let their religious views to inform their opinions. that's the point. everybody's opinions are affected and informed by their religion, philosophy or world view. you can't separate them. presidents are allowed to do what they feel is right based on whatever they believe. but they're not allowed to give specific governmental support to their specific faith or church or to use force of government to promote that one church. that's the difference.

[alyssabriana9]

@shadow2501 Amen sister/brother! (your sn is ambiguous!)

[MrAbruer18]

@shadow2501 If you're convinced that the god who exists is far off, then that's why one would bother believing in it.

dick.

[TheLemonandLime]

Wow, be now my suicide!

Man, this is meant to be happy, this is just plain depressing!

[therealdrag0]

lmao. Nice.

[AttroxOstendo]

Since when?

[legodesi]

i don't think he has definitively ruled out the bible or anything. to be most accurate, we simply don't yet know what his specific beliefs currently are.

[Neilarot]

No, he's a firm agnostic. He's made it clear that he will never return to the church.

[DinosaurJr169]

Listen to the band STUMBLE INN to hear good newer folk music!!!

thanks!!

[ColeWeiche]

The bible says that God loves us even when we don't love Him. He says that we are always His children, even before we accepted him. I'm not picking a fight, I'm just trying to clear something up for you.

[DreadpirateRobinson]

Dave is still strong in his faith, all rumors aside. I spoke to him at Cornerstone festival just last Thursday and he debunked those rumors in front of everyone. He attributed the rumors to a misinterpretation of his music, which I totally get.

[brianjbean]

that's very good news.

[ColeWeiche]

I'm very glad to hear this.

[DreadpirateRobinson]

Man, you're missing the point of my statement. You're just as biased as we are. If you really wanted God you would pursue him, not use the stupidity of man as an excuse to ignore Him.

[11willf]

you're right

the church has been terrible

and i'm a christian

and i've been terrible i'm a terrible sinner

but we're sorry that that's what you think of us

that's not what we want to be to you

[halfie25]

Praise YHWH! David searches for truth in his music and lyrics, and people should stop mis intepreting his songs!

[worldsworstjukebox]

Still strong in his faith? Is that why he calls himself agnostic and sings like an atheist? Are you saying he's still a Christian?

[legodesi]

he recently came back to belief in God.

[worldsworstjukebox]

Can you provide a source for this? Everything I've read or heard him say indicates he's finally an atheist.

[worldsworstjukebox]

To be more specific: He appears to be a deist, that is, he believes there is something out there that would constitute a creator of all things, but he knows now it's not the god of the Christian Bible, and not a personal god that gets involved with human affairs.

[legodesi]

David Bazan to Relevant Magazine: "I perceive that God exists. For whatever reason, thats a part of my wiring. What I was trying to figure out was Who or What that could be—given the data that is available.... I have a lot more peace about it, even though none of the big questions have been answered for me. Im a lot more at ease with where I am, and with a lot of things that I do. Ive run the equations on several of those key issues enough times."

[worldsworstjukebox]

Yes, but like I said, saying "god/God exists" does not clarify what image of a god he's talking about. He's obviously given up on the god of the Bible (see the video interview on his website) and now he seems to be trying to figure out "what god is." That is a deist. They believe in a god, but not a god of a holy book. He pretty much has realized the Bible is not true, so now he's left to figure out how to define the god concept he has.

[worldsworstjukebox]

David Bazan to Relevant Magazine: "...the God of my upbringing and the most popular characterizations of Him. I realized I was literally challenging the person at the center of that characterization, challenging that characterization. At the end of it all, I still believe, but I dont believe that particular narrative."

[neckfacesupra]

and how is it not true?

[neckfacesupra]

once a son of God always a son of God...

[jefferygwatkins]

Occasionally I attend small church services where they take requests for hymns. I always request "Be Thou My Vision". But then I sing it like Dave and ignore the worship leader/music minister.

And even if Dave has "lost" his faith, if the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints is correct, than he is still "saved".

Whatever those words mean.

[shapeslikedinosaurs]

someone that is better at guitar than me, what are the chords for this? i can make out a lot of them, but anyone want to just clarify? Thanks in advance

[sungis]

He lost faith in the Church and in God in general, despite having a faithful Christian wife.

[brianjbean]

that's too bad. sometimes people go through ups and downs. maybe he'll be back up at some point.

[ilovemutemath]

too bad he's not a Christian anymore.

This is such a beautiful song.

[coastTOcoast533]

How do you know he's not? I'm just curious of the story behind that.

[brianjbean]

I was wondering too. I read on barsuk's site (i think) that his faith has waned in recent years.

[robindavies24]

Great performance.

[seighart77]

nice song

[tarquintaggart]

very nice.

[JawnDeeMusic]

This song and this band makes me wish I had faith.

[austxbmx]

Bro! anyone can have faith! All you have to do is be honest and ask God to reveal himself to you and man, he'll do it and it'll blow your mind. God is just waiting for you to ask! He wants to be with you but he can't force you to be with him because he gave us free will. Just ask and he will show himself!

[iplaysdrums]

i would that it were that simple, but He simply doesn't reveal Himself to everyone the first time they ask. i don't understand it, but i know it to be the case. i have a friend who always feels like church is an exclusive club because he just can't quite believe. besides, if calvin's right, it's God who chooses us, and we have no say in it. unless i misunderstand calvin, which is almost certain.

[cleborptheretard]

@austxbmx I've asked for "Him" to reveal "Himself" every night for the past 5 years and it has never happened. I even committed half of a gap year to a program called DTS with an organization called YWAM and never had any revealing happen there. There is no God. It's a fairytale.

[MusicRodent]

@cleborptheretard

Try again tonight.

[TheImmortalTree]

@cleborptheretard If you asked in faith nothing wavering, he will reveal himself. He did it for me and still does. He is So real. Don't give up, cause this isn't an accident that I'm writing you. Read the book of John at least if you havent. Don't know if you've read the bible, but it would show you were serious about Him. I am praying for you right now that God will give you ears to hear and eyes to see when he speaks to you. Just say outloud "Jesus, if you are real SHOW ME" it takes faith

[simonprohax]

@TheImmortalTree You weird jesus freak

[monkeyboynathan]

@austxbmx Yeah.... cuz God didn't 'force' Paul to believe right? also...Jesus said.... No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.....

[TheNatedogg56]

@monkeyboynathan I don't think God forced Paul. Logically, because of the experience he had, it would have been ridiculous for Paul to have rejected God. Also, I've heard that passage in John described thus; when God draws you in and reveals Himself, you still have a choice, though no one in his right mind would ever willingly reject God knowing what he is rejecting (eternal life). That being said, I think the whole election/free will debate is too murky to argue, so I can see either way.

[ryattt]

@JawnDeeMusic ...just so you know...David Bazan hasnt had faith for awhile...not sure its good or bad...but hes reached a "crisis of faith"

[ilovemutemath]

this is such a beautiful song.

[ryancreek]

I have 2 songs on 8mm video from Cornerstone 98 of pedro the lion - wasn't a big fan back then (i know i know...) but I really thought most of the stuff was kinda boring...pretty big fan now. I need to upload those videos!

[mokisong]

Oh my word...this is some old footage...Dave looks so young. This is what he looked like in college.

[tkachta1]

Where was this show?

[brianjbean]

the velvet elvis in seattle

[clsmooth919]

this is a beautiful performance

[TomWatsonB]

Wow..... I don't know about his singing style....

[thisfightisnotmine]

David Bazan is simply amazing. I have 8 Pedro albums and his solo album, along with his free live album. If you go to davidbazan.com, he links to a site where you can get it for free. This video is great, thanks a lot.

[phillipharder]

i was on his site and looked for the free live album, but i was unable to find it. do you know what link it is under? i would like to get my hands on it. this man is pure genius.

[Lovealotbearisbest]

its not there anymore brah.

sawwiez

[kittypants102]

this is great!

when was this show??

[brianjbean]

About 10 years ago.

[tayesaluda]

Were you really knocked unconscious?

[brianjbean]

nah, it was a super mellow show - which is awesome. I was just making fun of how mellow it was.

[seacrestedrome]

so good.

[kricewig]

This song, namely this version, makes me weep.

[shuckslbj]

He looks so young.

[thespianxxoprimer]

This is the best version of this song I've ever heard...

[soonersrule07]

ahh he looks weird with the beard minus mustache.. like a totally different person haha..

[abeyantbirds]

beautiful song <3 Jesus

[kellyrkoch]

i love this song

[jimdonaldellis]

brilliant

[guitarfreak521]

Just Awesome!!

[annara]

My favorite version

[skatemusic]

awesome