lets not forget the overall populations of these countries, Britians Population is currently estimated at 62 million, whereas the US is over 300 million. thats 238 million more people in demand for health care, basic economics tells us that as price goes down, demand goes up and that is what will happen. Britian can get away with it without having long lines because they are small in comparison to the US. The US cant because we have a more diar health crisis on our hands with obesity, & more ppl
The most crippiling thing this bill does is deincentivize physicians to pratice. With less money being allowed per paitent, and lines longer than ever before, they are forced to rush through important things such as physicals and annuan check ups. When this happens we get things like missed underlying heart condtions and people die. also, lines waiting for things such as MRI's and CAT scans get longer, and people are forced to sit in pain waiting to see whats wrong.
if your american, if so, do you have health insurance, if so, how much do you pay every month and what does it cover? in my wages i pay about £60 pounds per month, in N.I contributions & £250 in other taxes, If we allowed private health to be the sole form of health insurance, costs would go up & public health would go down for the poor & old. i'm very happy with the nhs as a whole, if sick, i'll get treated no matter the cost, in the u.s.a, ill get treated if my insurance covers it
I see, so your car, home, life, flood, and mortgage insurance is your business but as soon as you get sick suddenly it's "Well, no longer my problem". Get as fat as you want, do all the drugs you want, pollute your body as much as you want but you don't want to take responsibility for it when it shuts down right??? Yeah, sounds fair to me.
If we deny Universal Healthcare there will be no risk of having our taxes raised due to the Healthcare. The reason for that is because Universal Healthcare is not free since we pay it with our own paychecks, if we repeal Universal Healthcare, it will be another step to lowering taxes which is always a great thing.
3. You eventually get medical help down the road, but your coverage doesnt extend to the medication, or the ambulance ride, you find yourself not working paying off all your normal bills, plus all your medical bills, from your meagre state hand out & savings, eventually you realise you have to sell your house or risk forclosure, move into a small a bed flat, then your medical coverage runs out now your screwed.
1. you have an accident get into the ambulance, have ther paramedics go to work , then later have the health insurance, say " it was unauthorised, there not covering the $10k for the ambulance ride"
2. When you actually get to the hospital the first thing they WONT say is "do you have health insurance?" If you dont, they kick you out the door after giving you "emergency care" or put you in a cab to take you to another hospital
@swu880 Do you live in the UK? Our National Health Service is a fine British institution that delivers a human right to all it's citizens, not just the ones that can pay. If you came to our country and broke your leg, you wouldn't have to pay a thing. And that is because the British people know that life and healthcare is a human right. Doesn't the American Constitution give people the right to life?
If you look at countries like Sweden, Norway, Australia, the EU, United Kingdom, Canada etc... you would see they are not "socialist" countries they are a Parliamentary Democracy. So Cuba/China they are not.
I bet those of you fearing this is the end of democracy and the beginning of a socialistic US has never traveled outside this country!!
Get outside the box and form an educated opinion. Who has a higher standard of living? How would u know?
Ameritards, in general, are one of the most undisciplined when it comes to leading a healthy lifestyle. I see so many people every day who are basically immobile, the sole reason appears to be they are FATBUCKETS. Also the amount of people in this country who abuse drugs/alcohol/food, has to be one of the highest in the world. Maybe the government should encourage insurance companies to give BIG discounts to their insured clients, for meeting certain health markers (weight, bp, nonsmoker,etc).
Look on page 1001 - 1007 on the current US Health Care Bill and you will see a little program called, "National Medical Device Registry" sponsored by IBM and Positive ID.
Obama and Friends want all Americans to have a microchip implanted into their bodies that will legally allow us to receive Medical Care, Commerce (Purchase Any Items) and Travel Nationally/Internationally.
We get monitored 24 hours a day and as a direct result, lose all privacy and get forced into a New World Order!
I want to attack the rationale about government schools. It is well known that these items work much better in private hands than in government hands. How many people pay a lot of money to send their children to private schools because they actually want them to learn something other than propaganda? Every time there is an election one of the threats is that they will take away fire stations. Health care is the same or worse. Why do you think Britons are teased about their horrible dental care?
I would love to here what type of propaganda you feel is being taught in our public schools?
Would that be the facts about evolution?
Let's face it. A real education that required critical thinking is sorely absent in most of the US today. We need more involvement at the local level to keep this crap out of our kids heads. You want a spiritual and moral education, fine. Don't mistake it for science.
Privet schools are tax exempt, so they should get no government founding.
Socialized Health care will cripple America further
Once you allow a little bit of socialism to creep in, it will always be used as a crutch for more socialism. The case being presented in this video example: "we already have public schools, why not have public hospitals" etc
Oh, you mean the public schools where some janitors make 60k a year, and kids graduate without knowing how to read and write? yeah let's have more of that. Let's make ourselves totally dependant on government
janitors make 60k a year? you made that up. And you can't graduate without knowing how to read. When will you anti-healthy people folks stop just making shit up?
I'm not. Many schools that have unions, the janitors start at $12/hr, and if they work there for let's say 30-40 years, their pay is increased at a steady rate. They aren't payed by any kind of free market principle, where their salary would depend on their skill, or performance, they simply get steady increase yearly so if they make it to 30 years their pay gets to be around $30/hr or more
The National Center for Education Statistics survey shows 95.4% of HS graduates can't read proficiently
Im saying that you thinking Universal Healthcare is "Socialist" is entirely wrong. Im a Canadian, and I can tell you that our Healthcare system works GREAT, and has been since it was implimented. Yo are just uneducated about it, and you believe anything hat the insurance lobbyists say, these are the people that are gonna lose billions of dollars when the Universal Healthcare system is put in the US. Why would you believe them? Theyre not helping you, theyre helping themselves, to your money.
@CShake420 I have to say our universal health care in Britain is really very good. I have needed it a few times and I have absolutely no criticism of it. It cost me nothing, except in general taxation of course and fair enough. When will Americans get it do you think?
I have insurance because I work hard and take personal responsibility for myself. We have the best healthcare in the world-as it is driven by money- that will not remain true if the fucked up goverment tries to put under their control. Obama does not know how to treat me when I am sick.
He knows nothing, so thats why hes president right? If thats true than the majority of voters in the sates are fuckin dumb for voting him in office Like give me a break, "He knows nothing" wtf does that even mean? Hes clearly trying to make life better for people who can't afford healthcare (which is staggering by the way) nobody is gonna go broke anymore cause they caught the flu. But yeah hes a fuckin know nothing, mmhmm, you are a know nothing. Go pave your cave, caveman.
You dont seem to know much about what socialist or communist are about .All stores and factries are run by the people not the goverment like the USSR .
Read here w w w . discussion.newyouth. c o m /index.php
They don't want state run , they want workers to run it. There is eletion and democracy.
Just type in proper URL and read about than spure propadada from the conservatives mouth.
not to mention you'd always be covered if we had universal health care like in Canada. Here if it's an expensive procedure often times private health care corps. will find a way to not pay. Then you're stuck paying tens or hundreds of thousands instead of paying nothing.
you're absolutely right... but i can also guarantee you that crime rates would sky-rocket, forest fires would destroy significant parts of the western US and kids would either grow up retarded or indoctrinated in ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative propaganda.
We can't have Universal Health care since it would ruin the quality of health care put a strain on our taxes the government should help us get a cheep private solution to health care.
Everything you just said doesn't make sense. First of all there is no such thing as cheap private health care. Second of all we are the only western nation that doesnt have universal health care. And of all those nations most have better health and longer life expectancies along with lower infant mortality. Also, our taxes may be higher, but like all of the other countries by no means do they cause strain.
just because everybody's doing it doesn't mean we should too. Why does America have the best Cancer survival rates than any country? Hmm... maybe because we don't have nationalized healthcare?
Pahhh, you dont have the best anythng when it comes to Health care actually...especially Cancer, Hamilton Ontario Canada is where the best cancer treatments are, by the way..And they just came out with an even better way to treat cancer patients very recently. So dont put out fake facts about healthcare, your the reason why people are afraid of national healthcare, and its very frustrating.
The government schools are doing a lousy job at twice the price of comparable private schools. There are many examples of private fire departments that do great work at reduced cost. Police and armies are organizations that initiate force. Governments always have a monopoly on force unless they are in a civil war.
You have obviously never been there. I hate Americans who talk shit about other countries that they have never been to. I bet you have never been outside of your home town.
fact: you'll save money by no longer needing to pay for health insurance, as with your employers.
it's not about you paying for somebody elses benefits at all... it's a government program, like your police service, fire service, postal service, etc etc etc.
it would be no different then your taxes paying for police services to protect criminals and drug addicts... someday, you'll need the services yourself, or for your kids. many countries already have free healthcare, and it's been proven to work efficiently. god forbid you get cancer or some disease... but wouldnt you rather know 100% you'll be looked after regardless of your condition? or would you rather fight with your insurance company to get minimal care?
I lived in Canada 2 years, and the UK 1 year, in Italy for 3 years, socialism is HORRIBLE the health services were VILE, I couldn't wait to get back to a US doctor. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Don't be a fool, open up an economics book sometime and learn how the world really works
no, you will have to pay for healthcare. it'll come from your taxes and your taxes will rise quite a bit, so that those who do not have jobs can be insured, too.
why should i have to pay for the truly sick and the hypochondriacs alike when i am neither. i've not gone to the doctor in 10 years and i have excellent benefits through my employer. either have the prudence to set aside some money for emergencies, get your own insurance, or be conciderate enough to not reproduce. car insurance is manditory and you dont see them cutting anyone a break!!!!!
Why should I have to pay for the fire department's services if your house catches fire? I have never had a house fire. Why the hell should I give a damn about you? "Are there no workhouses, no prisons?" Should your good fortune change, then what, Superman/woman? How about home invaders? Why should I pay taxes so the police can catch them? Your problems aren't mine.
Out of all the people that you have ever met, how many of those people can you recall had a fire in their house? For me it is 2 that I can recall out of the thousands of people I have met. In terms of percentages, it would be <1%. Now if I take the same group of people and ask now many of them have been to the hospital before, it would be 100%.
As of right now your taxes do pay for fire departments, police departments and hospitals. However, if your house burns down you have to pay for...
...the cost, or if you have insurance they pay for it. If you get injured, you or your insurance pays for the cost. Now what this social health care system would do is make you pay for the insurance side of the system in addition to the taxes you pay to simply allow the systems to operate.
Your problems are not my problems, but I would rather have a fire department than no fire department, besides, at least we do not have to pay to replace their house yet.
It's beyond me how anybody can think a socialist-based approach to medicine is an improvement to what we have in America. Show me one country where its' a better system
Show me where it's superior
Show me where waits are shorter
Show me where there's greater freedom of choice
Show me where the doctors and surgeons are better
Show me where the medicines are more sophisticated
Show me where people have faster access to treatment
I am an American citizen, but I moved to England two years ago. Since I have been in England, I have had my child without paying out huge sums (obviously it's paid through taxes). I didn't go home the day after she was born thinking "holy crap, just having this baby is going to keep me from being able to feed her!"
Well I am glad that you like giving the government the power to solve all of your problems. Next you will be demanding a chicken in every pot and a pot to put the chicken in from the government! Oh btw, I hope you don't mind the patient stacking in England. If you ever get sick, you might be in an ambulance for several hours before you actually get to the hospital.
The English don't expect the government to buy their pots and pans nor their chicken. And you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the ambulance or "patient stacking". You are scared of change. Plain and simple.
Of course the English don't expect that yet, but as long as they are thinking like a socialist, one day it will happen. Look at it this way, take social healthcare. You could say, "We want social health care because we don't want people to needlessly die from too high of a cost of medical care." Now say, "we want social food services because we don't want people to die of starvation because of too high food costs." Same logic, different application. Just a matter of time before it is thought
you're a moron - a typical conservative who takes things out of all proportion and out of proper context. socialised medicine is the backbone of british society. like Tony Benn said, if you took away the NHS from the British, there'd be revolution. The state SHOULD provide certain things to ALL people, regardless of their income - education, healthcare, security and such "trifles", ha! you have socialised education in america, why not healthcare?
almost every country that has universal healthcare has 10% or less GDP paying for it.... america 'already' pays 15% on medicare.. and is expected to go over 20%. it's clearly cheaper to have universal healthcare.
everybody would save money... it's simple math.
but i can tell you one thing, the tax revenue from insurance companies is huge(hundreds of billions), thats why your government balks at universal healthcare... they'd rather make more money then help its people.
it's not simple math, the only thing simple about it is that it'll bankrupt the system, by allwoing those who don't work to have free healthcare. Taxes will go up, no questions asked. Your county is now just starting to reathink socialized healthcare b/c there is no money coming in.
it IS simple math. look at what other countries spend on free healthcare, it all hovers around the same cost per capita(10%gdp). it doesnt matter if there are people who dont work using the system. the people paying high insurance premiums and not using it far exceeds that, and those are the people who will save money.. especially employers/busniess owners.
and canada is not rethinking healthcare. we'll never change that program.
it IS simple math, i already showed it to you... 10% gdp is what universal healthcare costs, thats a FACT. there will be no increase in taxes since your failed medicare already costs more. government will save money. and no longer paying for insurance premiums will save the average citien money. simple math.
and canada IS NOT rethinking healthcare... if it's a system thats going broke? then why did canada have a budget SURPLUS last year? taxes were reduced for all canadians by 2% this year
that is total nonsense! pointless wars in the middle east and wreckless borrowing and lending is what will bankrupt the system. don't be so simple as to think western countries can't afford universal health care
I'm against it because it will require 300 billion a year in taxes (i dont feel like paying more) and the healthcare industry is understaffed already. Just look at Canada - thats why I dont want it.
@Drexel2008 Look at the UK, much better and fairer healthcare than the US and ur argument is actually quite funny: The reoson the canadian health care system isnt great atm is because of a RIGHT WING government which hasnt invested in it properly, right winger caus the problem, then after THEIR failings tell us how shit government is. SOCIALISM is the only way. As long as there is humanity, there will be socialism.
The reason why I am agiansr Universal health care is becuase public schools and other socialized programs simply are not working. As far as fire departments and police. Fire deparments are typically handeled on a local level. Infact some FD acutally have volunteer workers. I have health care and don't make muuch money. But it is good health care. If there is universal health care I would end up with less coverage and higher taxes. How fair is that? I give to charity but I dont want to be forced
I would just like to say that I am against the govt providing any kind of services to the public. Why not have public housing, public food, and everthing else we need. That is the difference between public roads and schools. Those are not services but a part of govt infrastructure.
We already have public housing subsidized by the government. And we also have public food, the food stamp program. Police, Fire, Public libraries, Military, Postal Service. Of all the public services that we enjoy, we run from the one service that could save our lives. We live in a world a little different from the world in 1776.
food stamps and public housing are for people who can't afford that shit. You want to create a system that takes care of everyone and overrides our private health care system.
Police are not a "service". Have you ever been pulled over and treated like shit by a cop? Can you go back to a judge and demand an apology or your money back for the "service". Police are a function of the govt because they are used for civil control.
Actually, no. I treat them with the respect and dignity that they deserve. It's funny how that works. Because I've treated them with respect and dignity, I've been "let go" more often than I've been ticketed.
So then, what's your point? They're still subsidized by tax dollars. I want every American to be able to get healthcare regardless of their status in life. This is the only country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare to it's citizens. It's not about freedom, it's about greed. I've seen bad things happen to very good people too many times. It's an ominous sign to see how Americans care so little about their fellow man... fellow Americans. All for the love of a dollar.
I think Americans do care considering that we give so much money to charities here and around the world. I just don't see why we define caring as something that has to be done by the govt.
Tim, I do understand where you're coming from. But I don't see any other way of addressing the health care crisis. There are valid points to both sides of the argument. In my opinion, the "for profit" in our system is inherently wrong. Like you said, we pour millions of taxpayer dollars into aid for other countries (Myanmar, China) but when it comes to using taxpayer dollars for our own citizens, we scream socialism! We'll help the world, but not our own.
Almost every american woman i talk to wont get their critically important Pap test once a year because they cant afford it and cant afford medical ins I get mine twice a year for free and id be dead now of cervical cancer if i hadnt. But I received prompt medical care and now have a nice fat clean bill of health! Thank You Canadian government! Also my mother thanks you for her prompt medical attention for her breast cancer!! Dont worry tho....shes absolutely cancer free now as well!
Let's look at France. They have the best health care in the world (ranked number 1 by the World Health Organization), it's UHC by-the-way, and their doctors make house calls! A maximum 35 hour work week with anything over that compensated with time off. By law, 7 weeks paid vacation for everyone, that's EVERYONE. Free college education. Child care averages about a dollar a day. Oh my God! It's Socialism! Something must be wrong! They must be goose stepping through the streets in jack boots!
I thought so... Their current unemployment rate is 7.5%, but dropping. A bit high, but not as bad as a lot of other countries. Ours is currently 5%. So, in comparison, their standard of living, life expectancy, infant mortality rates are head and shoulders above us. We rank 37th, very discouraging for your "for Profit" healthcare system.
Oh please! Saying that those companies are evil for making a profit off of sick people is like saying grocery store companies are evil for making a profit off of hungry people! It's just so absurd. You don't know what it is you're talking about. It's so easy to make "profit" sound like a dirty word, when really it's completely benign. Is it a rule you HAVE to be an economic illiterate to be on the left!?!?!?!
I'm glad we're 37th. Wish we were much lower. Because that ranking of "37" is given by the HMO(Health Maintenance Organization) which does not measure quality what so ever. Only distribution. regardless of how poor the facilities are, as long as everyone has something, they give you a high score.
depends what the type of emergency is. Is it a heart transplant or a simple cold? You cannot tell me there is no waiting list for a heart transplant in a country with socialized healthcare. Atleast with a competitive healthcare industry, if you have the money, you can cut in line. As much as some people would like to believe, this is not a utopian world. Its a dog eat dog world, someone will get hurt. So it is up to each individual person to look out for their own well being bcz no1 else will.
well if u like the idea that with money u can cut in line... wich basicaly is the perk of the rich and im sure ur not a millionaire or even close... but the question is that are you thinking as "I" or as "WE" for example, my country is pretty nice example why it does work, u pay hard taxes ofcourse but hey, im happy :)
Well im still a student, two more years to go, but just because i am not rich now doesnt mean i wont be filthy-dirty-disgusting-rat-bastard-rich in the future. Thats whats great about a free capitalistic country, anyone can be "insert words here"-rich if they apply themselves. The WE portion i'm saying is that I dont want a society that relies and is overly needy to the government. Without that competitive drive all there is is stagnation. Look at the welfare system; what a drain!
Well Finland has one the worlds best welfare systems, they said 15years ago that we would be in hell it seems satan has a pretty lousy pr campaign considering the scandic countries are doing great. you should try to visit some of these countries and see that it isnt so bad as ur media lets u understand.
Universal healthcare doesent mean that the governement desides who gets treatment or anything like that...
I hate to tell you but UHC does mean the government decides what treatment you get. The government, regardless of the tax structure, cannot support unlimited care. It's why there are restrictions and rationing in every country where UHC is present. But arguing over which idea serves people better still avoids the ethical dilemna of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Try as you might, you can't escape the ammoral methods of collectivism...although your intentions may be good.
well whatever mate, if america is fine then i quess it is... and about UHC, the government doesent deside what kinda treatment u get, that desision is left to the doctors...
and what comes to unlimited care, well i havent heard to this day that someone would have been denied care on any reason
I'm sorry but I beg to differ. The fact is every government who utilizes some form of UHC HAS TO have some type of restriction or regulation. If we decided that the government is paying for HC then what is to stop us from getting check-ups. appointments, and tests every single week? You think that a government would be able to afford that? The government, even with steep income taxes, cannot support unlimited care. They either ration the care, set price ceilings for providers, or both.
ofcourse every week checkups would be a bit much but who does that anyway? :D
but it gives great care for those who need it, we dont have lousy equipment etc as ur media let u understand...
but my country will stick to this since everyone feels that everyone should have possibility to see a doctor and get a good education and last time i checked we werent so bad at education department either.
Trust me...if you're offering free medicine, there will be a near unlimited demand for it...especially in a country like ours. The point is that your government DOES have regulation concerning it...but you don't seem to be aware of it. But none of these things are the issue. You still have a situation where men are working, by force, for the fruit of other men. It appears slavery hasn't gone out of style after all.
That isn't because of the system, it's because of Americans. We're bloated, ignorant, selfish, and negligent parents. We smoke, drink, and eat unhealthy foods more than europeans, and otherwise partake of a wide variety of substances that are questionable in their necessity. We're unhealthy, and a lot us don't get care because we can't afford it, but if you can it's simply the best. Money talks like that. The problem is largely economic, but social also.
Mate, you obviously havent heard much from the other countries now have you...
ofcourse you can get excellent care if ur rich in america buuuut here u get excelent care no matter are u poor or rich + we do have private hospitals etc if u like to pay for ur treatment...
The UHC debate in America is more of a debate on ethics than "what works best for the most people"...which I think many people are confused about. American government was constructed with the rights of individuals in mind...which includes the right to property. UHC, like all social programs, works through the dissolution of individual sovereignty to appease the majority. Our founding fathers feared such forms of tyrrany. It's why the U.S. is primarily a republic.
Thats great that there is private and public healthcare. Thats the freedom of choice. But I dont want to pay taxes on a service I dont use. Is there a choice plan for that? Why should the rich be punished for being rich? No doubt the rich can afford it but the reverberating consequence is showing society that "if your rich, we will tax the motivation out of you; just stay poor and reap other people's hard work." Get excellent care in a UHC, or get mother teresa like care in a private practice.
Legislating moral imperitives is a bit of a slippery slope don't you think. Maybe I believe it's a moral imperitive to donate blood to the Red Cross. Should we start lining people up at the point of a gun and force them to give blood? You should have a right to remain neutral...and to redeem the consequences of being benevolent to others or at their detriment...But forced charity is coersive at best....regardless of your benevolent intentions.
correct. i do believe the rich should help the less fortunate. but just because of that it doesnt mean they should be forced to. its a moral individual choice to help. by taxing the rich (by the way is defined as what?) then the government would be discriminating. Your right, how many people do actually get super rich? Do those who are super rich get taxed just the same as those who are regular rich? Strange terminologies but there are levels of wealth.
We can provide socialized fire protection and police etc because those things are comparatively simpler and much less demanding than health care. Health care can't be as standardized as fire protection. It has to be tailored for individual recipients. America has the best health care on Earth because of our privatized medical industry. It's expensive, but we're a rich country. We can afford it. If you can't, then work harder, or get some help from your family.
hahaha, are you absolutely sure that your country has the best healthcare in the world? :D and first of your media is bashing the idea with comparing it to postal service or fire department and spamming stories how tons of ppl are dying on the waiting lines and cant get good treatment... i live in a country with universal healthcare and i've not waited, paid or suffered in anyway... jesus u ppl should stop listening ur media :D
Our media is one the biggest proponents of universal healthcare. I don't listen to them. I listen to people who understand basic economic theory. It doesn't take much study to see that it is not a viable course. I think you're just lucky you havn't gotten very sick. I have a friend in Canada who confirms the waits really are very long and that care has to be booked months and even a year in advance, and that the quality is poor. I trust him, and I trust sound economic principles.
depends what the type of emergency is. Is it a heart transplant or a simple cold? You cannot tell me there is no waiting list for a heart transplant in a country with socialized healthcare. Atleast with a competitive healthcare industry, if you have the money, you can cut in line. As much as some people would like to believe, this is not a utopian world. Its a dog eat dog world, someone will get hurt. So it is up to each individual person to look out for their own well being bcz no1 else will.
NO, it's just based on profit and control for and by the gov't. You're wrong, There are longer waits. A Canadian newspaper recently reported that a pregnant woman was sent to Wyoming to deliver her baby. Pregnant women are told to book their hospital rooms months in advance. Universal healthcare proponents are liars. It doesn't work anywhere it is employed. It's not about exploitation. It's about competition. Competition engenders greater care and cheaper costs.
In europe, they have vouchers allowing the parents to somewhat choose which schools their children can go to. It is not free market schooling, but it is closer to it than in America. Over here you have to go to the one school that is in your community; there is no competition so their is no need for teachers to go out of their way teaching your child.
American is the only country with our current GDP that doesn't have universal health care. Everyone deserves heath care. You shouldn't have to live in fear of going to the hospital not because your hurt but because of the cost of the hospital and how it is going to bankrupt you.
Canada has Universal Healthcare and 37% of the GDP there is total revenue. You'd have to have an awful lot of terminal illnesses to get your money's worth with that kind of taxation. Universal Healthcare also includes longer waits, poorer quality of care, and more gov't restrictions (for example, in Canada, a gov't representative made a Quebec hospital take down its English language signs because it said that there were not enough English speakers in the area to warrant signs).
The rich get richer because the government interferes. We haven't had truly free markets because of this, and that's why capitalism has been given a bad name.
free market = PROFIT, GIVE ME MONEY IM MAKING PROFIT
universal healthcare = cheaper because no loss of money in profit that will benefit a small group of person.
conclusion
free market = benefit to small group of person
universal healthcare = benefit to 99.999999%of people.
the 0.000001% of people constantly use their PROFIT to promote free market to continue making PROFIT, they want u to beleive in capitalism, therefore they spend billions of dollar lobbying to get what they want
look at the industrial revolution and how the government didn't interfere. Many people died to line the pockets of the rich. Free markets is a throw back to wage slavery.
Sure, lets get it. Then we can see all the baby boomers and old people get disqualified for certain services. I'd love to see how Americans have a cow after they chose such a stupid thing. Also, I don't have a "STATE" paid fire department by me. They are all volunteer foundation savers. The fire departments we have are all LOCALLY ran. People are so nieve. STOP BEING
One should not get health care as an entitlement. This country was founded on the idea that rights were to be protected and entitlement were to be earned. Rights like speech and defense can be observed in nature, but health care in nature is far from sophisticated and a long life is expensive. It is a nice thought but look at public schools. They stagnate and quality falls while cost rises. Only by freeing the managed health markets can agencies fill in the lower cost markets effectively.
Hi billybobthompson: Read 'The Rockefeller Files' and see what you think about it. It has documented & relevant information of an 'eye-opening' nature... to say the least.
lets not forget the overall populations of these countries, Britians Population is currently estimated at 62 million, whereas the US is over 300 million. thats 238 million more people in demand for health care, basic economics tells us that as price goes down, demand goes up and that is what will happen. Britian can get away with it without having long lines because they are small in comparison to the US. The US cant because we have a more diar health crisis on our hands with obesity, & more ppl
ray619fan1 3 days ago
The most crippiling thing this bill does is deincentivize physicians to pratice. With less money being allowed per paitent, and lines longer than ever before, they are forced to rush through important things such as physicals and annuan check ups. When this happens we get things like missed underlying heart condtions and people die. also, lines waiting for things such as MRI's and CAT scans get longer, and people are forced to sit in pain waiting to see whats wrong.
ray619fan1 3 days ago
if your american, if so, do you have health insurance, if so, how much do you pay every month and what does it cover? in my wages i pay about £60 pounds per month, in N.I contributions & £250 in other taxes, If we allowed private health to be the sole form of health insurance, costs would go up & public health would go down for the poor & old. i'm very happy with the nhs as a whole, if sick, i'll get treated no matter the cost, in the u.s.a, ill get treated if my insurance covers it
darren1678 11 months ago
I see, so your car, home, life, flood, and mortgage insurance is your business but as soon as you get sick suddenly it's "Well, no longer my problem". Get as fat as you want, do all the drugs you want, pollute your body as much as you want but you don't want to take responsibility for it when it shuts down right??? Yeah, sounds fair to me.
tripleheshy 11 months ago
If we deny Universal Healthcare there will be no risk of having our taxes raised due to the Healthcare. The reason for that is because Universal Healthcare is not free since we pay it with our own paychecks, if we repeal Universal Healthcare, it will be another step to lowering taxes which is always a great thing.
armedyboyedik1995 1 year ago
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ZAGGNUT1 1 year ago
because americans are stupid enough to pay 1000 a month to get their claim denied
chuck3377 1 year ago
the reason is because america is run by a secret satanic cult, and the sad thing is what I said is true.
chuck3377 1 year ago
oh and the nhs's collective bargaining means they get rock bottom prices, or they wont be approved for use in the nhs
prescription drugs in the uk cost a maximum of £12.50 or there abouts
If your an o.a.p, some one under 16 years old or not working, it's free
darren1678 1 year ago
This is what happens in britain
You have an accident
you go to hospital
you get treatment
you get your prescrition, physio treatment etc etc
cost is never mentioned
darren1678 1 year ago
@darren1678 It's mentioned to the other UK citizens who have to foot YOUR bill.
tripleheshy 11 months ago
3. You eventually get medical help down the road, but your coverage doesnt extend to the medication, or the ambulance ride, you find yourself not working paying off all your normal bills, plus all your medical bills, from your meagre state hand out & savings, eventually you realise you have to sell your house or risk forclosure, move into a small a bed flat, then your medical coverage runs out now your screwed.
continued...
darren1678 1 year ago
3 reasons why Britains health care system is good
1. you have an accident get into the ambulance, have ther paramedics go to work , then later have the health insurance, say " it was unauthorised, there not covering the $10k for the ambulance ride"
2. When you actually get to the hospital the first thing they WONT say is "do you have health insurance?" If you dont, they kick you out the door after giving you "emergency care" or put you in a cab to take you to another hospital
continued..
darren1678 1 year ago
from Melissa Impollonia's Class in RM 109. 07-08 School Year.
atlanta4950 1 year ago
The Real Anderson "Austin" Cooper
atlanta4950 1 year ago
@swu880 Do you live in the UK? Our National Health Service is a fine British institution that delivers a human right to all it's citizens, not just the ones that can pay. If you came to our country and broke your leg, you wouldn't have to pay a thing. And that is because the British people know that life and healthcare is a human right. Doesn't the American Constitution give people the right to life?
adamladley 1 year ago
I live in the UK, which has a National Health Service. It is a brilliant system of healthcare that leaves no-one without care when they need it.
adamladley 1 year ago
@adamladley i am sure- with long ass wait line, high fines in taxes, low beneftis, very limited quality, & government dictated drugs & treatment
swu880 1 year ago
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How can u call Obama a socialist?
If you look at countries like Sweden, Norway, Australia, the EU, United Kingdom, Canada etc... you would see they are not "socialist" countries they are a Parliamentary Democracy. So Cuba/China they are not.
I bet those of you fearing this is the end of democracy and the beginning of a socialistic US has never traveled outside this country!!
Get outside the box and form an educated opinion. Who has a higher standard of living? How would u know?
littlebini 1 year ago
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Ameritards, in general, are one of the most undisciplined when it comes to leading a healthy lifestyle. I see so many people every day who are basically immobile, the sole reason appears to be they are FATBUCKETS. Also the amount of people in this country who abuse drugs/alcohol/food, has to be one of the highest in the world. Maybe the government should encourage insurance companies to give BIG discounts to their insured clients, for meeting certain health markers (weight, bp, nonsmoker,etc).
tickyul 2 years ago
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Look on page 1001 - 1007 on the current US Health Care Bill and you will see a little program called, "National Medical Device Registry" sponsored by IBM and Positive ID.
Obama and Friends want all Americans to have a microchip implanted into their bodies that will legally allow us to receive Medical Care, Commerce (Purchase Any Items) and Travel Nationally/Internationally.
We get monitored 24 hours a day and as a direct result, lose all privacy and get forced into a New World Order!
777equals666 2 years ago
I want to attack the rationale about government schools. It is well known that these items work much better in private hands than in government hands. How many people pay a lot of money to send their children to private schools because they actually want them to learn something other than propaganda? Every time there is an election one of the threats is that they will take away fire stations. Health care is the same or worse. Why do you think Britons are teased about their horrible dental care?
InterestedinYah 2 years ago
what about the roads, libraries, postal system, police and firemen, all public
roydion 2 years ago
@InterestedinYah
I would love to here what type of propaganda you feel is being taught in our public schools?
Would that be the facts about evolution?
Let's face it. A real education that required critical thinking is sorely absent in most of the US today. We need more involvement at the local level to keep this crap out of our kids heads. You want a spiritual and moral education, fine. Don't mistake it for science.
Privet schools are tax exempt, so they should get no government founding.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
Socialized Health care will cripple America further
Once you allow a little bit of socialism to creep in, it will always be used as a crutch for more socialism. The case being presented in this video example: "we already have public schools, why not have public hospitals" etc
Oh, you mean the public schools where some janitors make 60k a year, and kids graduate without knowing how to read and write? yeah let's have more of that. Let's make ourselves totally dependant on government
Sam26100 2 years ago
janitors make 60k a year? you made that up. And you can't graduate without knowing how to read. When will you anti-healthy people folks stop just making shit up?
elfred1980 2 years ago
I'm not. Many schools that have unions, the janitors start at $12/hr, and if they work there for let's say 30-40 years, their pay is increased at a steady rate. They aren't payed by any kind of free market principle, where their salary would depend on their skill, or performance, they simply get steady increase yearly so if they make it to 30 years their pay gets to be around $30/hr or more
The National Center for Education Statistics survey shows 95.4% of HS graduates can't read proficiently
Sam26100 2 years ago
Hahaha, your right =P This guys a total fuckin moron. HAHAHA
CShake420 2 years ago
nahh, your wrong, your very scared and very wrong. That is all. =)
CShake420 2 years ago
whatever
You who know nothing of economics are telling me I am very wrong?
How about Peter Schiff, was he very wrong when he predicted the crash?
Sam26100 2 years ago
Im saying that you thinking Universal Healthcare is "Socialist" is entirely wrong. Im a Canadian, and I can tell you that our Healthcare system works GREAT, and has been since it was implimented. Yo are just uneducated about it, and you believe anything hat the insurance lobbyists say, these are the people that are gonna lose billions of dollars when the Universal Healthcare system is put in the US. Why would you believe them? Theyre not helping you, theyre helping themselves, to your money.
CShake420 2 years ago
Whatever
Youtube search: "The Dollar Bubble" and get your head filled with something other than statist propaganda.
Sam26100 2 years ago
@CShake420 I have to say our universal health care in Britain is really very good. I have needed it a few times and I have absolutely no criticism of it. It cost me nothing, except in general taxation of course and fair enough. When will Americans get it do you think?
Pinnertop 2 years ago
I have insurance because I work hard and take personal responsibility for myself. We have the best healthcare in the world-as it is driven by money- that will not remain true if the fucked up goverment tries to put under their control. Obama does not know how to treat me when I am sick.
errtennessee 2 years ago
exactly. im scared that we might have national healthcare. OBAMA is not a surgeon. he is a man who knows nothing about politics.. or healthcare.
bradeniscooluaint 2 years ago
He knows nothing, so thats why hes president right? If thats true than the majority of voters in the sates are fuckin dumb for voting him in office Like give me a break, "He knows nothing" wtf does that even mean? Hes clearly trying to make life better for people who can't afford healthcare (which is staggering by the way) nobody is gonna go broke anymore cause they caught the flu. But yeah hes a fuckin know nothing, mmhmm, you are a know nothing. Go pave your cave, caveman.
CShake420 2 years ago
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You dont seem to know much about what socialist or communist are about .All stores and factries are run by the people not the goverment like the USSR .
Read here w w w . discussion.newyouth. c o m /index.php
They don't want state run , they want workers to run it. There is eletion and democracy.
Just type in proper URL and read about than spure propadada from the conservatives mouth.
sun201a 2 years ago
you can pay 100 more dollars on your taxes or spend 10000 buying it yourself
jdogmichael 2 years ago
not to mention you'd always be covered if we had universal health care like in Canada. Here if it's an expensive procedure often times private health care corps. will find a way to not pay. Then you're stuck paying tens or hundreds of thousands instead of paying nothing.
jstauner010 2 years ago
Our schools, police, firefighters, mail, libraries are all socialized, so why not health care?
jstauner010 2 years ago
I guarantee that if everyone of these was privatized it would be more efficient and cost effective.
mossbergmaniac1947 2 years ago
you're absolutely right... but i can also guarantee you that crime rates would sky-rocket, forest fires would destroy significant parts of the western US and kids would either grow up retarded or indoctrinated in ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative propaganda.
Everything has a price..
UWMike017 2 years ago
public school kids are already indoctrinated in ultra-liberal propaganda
cheesecakeSquared 2 years ago
Comment removed
cheesecakeSquared 2 years ago
Universal health care facts watch?v=yzTB9Sk3to8
Canada's socialized health care watch?v=Ch0zibdh75E
BuckFarack 2 years ago
We can't have Universal Health care since it would ruin the quality of health care put a strain on our taxes the government should help us get a cheep private solution to health care.
KyleClarkUSA 2 years ago
Everything you just said doesn't make sense. First of all there is no such thing as cheap private health care. Second of all we are the only western nation that doesnt have universal health care. And of all those nations most have better health and longer life expectancies along with lower infant mortality. Also, our taxes may be higher, but like all of the other countries by no means do they cause strain.
jstauner010 2 years ago
just because everybody's doing it doesn't mean we should too. Why does America have the best Cancer survival rates than any country? Hmm... maybe because we don't have nationalized healthcare?
cheesecakeSquared 2 years ago
Its not as bad as you think it is.
SirFact 2 years ago
Um, if you can't get treatment the survival rate of those treated doesn't mean much, does it?
xxxild 2 years ago 7
Pahhh, you dont have the best anythng when it comes to Health care actually...especially Cancer, Hamilton Ontario Canada is where the best cancer treatments are, by the way..And they just came out with an even better way to treat cancer patients very recently. So dont put out fake facts about healthcare, your the reason why people are afraid of national healthcare, and its very frustrating.
CShake420 2 years ago
The government schools are doing a lousy job at twice the price of comparable private schools. There are many examples of private fire departments that do great work at reduced cost. Police and armies are organizations that initiate force. Governments always have a monopoly on force unless they are in a civil war.
jscottupton 2 years ago
No you don't. Quit lying to prove a stupid point. You have never been outside the city you were born in inside the USA, dumb fuck.
danroduw06 2 years ago
You have obviously never been there. I hate Americans who talk shit about other countries that they have never been to. I bet you have never been outside of your home town.
danroduw06 3 years ago
Sweden and socialism
TargetGuy2245 3 years ago
OOPS, I was searching and typed and sent in the wrong box! LOL
TargetGuy2245 3 years ago
I'm for it. But america's government tends to screw up whatever it socializes.
keenanmartens 3 years ago
"But america's government tends to screw up whatever it socializes"
So true
TargetGuy2245 3 years ago
I'm for it.
badmuffy 3 years ago
woops inserted that bit about capitalism + socialism in the middle of my health care argument... mentaly move it down a few lines hehe...
stupid lack of edit post buttons....
ZerqTM 3 years ago
Because health care involves preventative programs that will lower health care costs in the long run.
You don't allow privatization of fire departments because then your going to have your house burn down because your neighbor wasn't covered.
Capitalism nurtures buissnis to build wealth.
Socialism nurtures people who are essential to the companies to build wealth.
You need both to make society work.
same goes with health care.
ZerqTM 3 years ago
Fact: The #1 Killer in the USA is heart disease.
Why should I have to provide health care benefits for people who abuse their health and over eat?
caligvla71 3 years ago
fact: you'll save money by no longer needing to pay for health insurance, as with your employers.
it's not about you paying for somebody elses benefits at all... it's a government program, like your police service, fire service, postal service, etc etc etc.
glacier1978 3 years ago
exactly, who wants going to the doctor to be just like going to the DMV or Post Office.
Smokers, people with heat disease all have self inflicted health problems, that I don't want to pay for!
caligvla71 3 years ago
it would be no different then your taxes paying for police services to protect criminals and drug addicts... someday, you'll need the services yourself, or for your kids. many countries already have free healthcare, and it's been proven to work efficiently. god forbid you get cancer or some disease... but wouldnt you rather know 100% you'll be looked after regardless of your condition? or would you rather fight with your insurance company to get minimal care?
glacier1978 3 years ago
I lived in Canada 2 years, and the UK 1 year, in Italy for 3 years, socialism is HORRIBLE the health services were VILE, I couldn't wait to get back to a US doctor. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Don't be a fool, open up an economics book sometime and learn how the world really works
caligvla71 3 years ago
and you couldnt be more wrong. WHO ranks US healthcare #37, canada, UK and italy are all above US. i think youre just making stuff up.
i also had the liberty of being in the emergency room in boston and seeing a woman begging the hospital to treat her child.
maybe you need to open a book, youre clearly confused and making stuff up.
glacier1978 3 years ago
no, you will have to pay for healthcare. it'll come from your taxes and your taxes will rise quite a bit, so that those who do not have jobs can be insured, too.
TumblingDiaries 3 years ago
we need socialism.. we need to look after each other.
stupid amercians.. all you guys care about is money
thepasword 3 years ago
why should i have to pay for the truly sick and the hypochondriacs alike when i am neither. i've not gone to the doctor in 10 years and i have excellent benefits through my employer. either have the prudence to set aside some money for emergencies, get your own insurance, or be conciderate enough to not reproduce. car insurance is manditory and you dont see them cutting anyone a break!!!!!
longshot8ball 3 years ago
Why should I have to pay for the fire department's services if your house catches fire? I have never had a house fire. Why the hell should I give a damn about you? "Are there no workhouses, no prisons?" Should your good fortune change, then what, Superman/woman? How about home invaders? Why should I pay taxes so the police can catch them? Your problems aren't mine.
726665 3 years ago
Out of all the people that you have ever met, how many of those people can you recall had a fire in their house? For me it is 2 that I can recall out of the thousands of people I have met. In terms of percentages, it would be <1%. Now if I take the same group of people and ask now many of them have been to the hospital before, it would be 100%.
As of right now your taxes do pay for fire departments, police departments and hospitals. However, if your house burns down you have to pay for...
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
...the cost, or if you have insurance they pay for it. If you get injured, you or your insurance pays for the cost. Now what this social health care system would do is make you pay for the insurance side of the system in addition to the taxes you pay to simply allow the systems to operate.
Your problems are not my problems, but I would rather have a fire department than no fire department, besides, at least we do not have to pay to replace their house yet.
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
It's beyond me how anybody can think a socialist-based approach to medicine is an improvement to what we have in America. Show me one country where its' a better system
Show me where it's superior
Show me where waits are shorter
Show me where there's greater freedom of choice
Show me where the doctors and surgeons are better
Show me where the medicines are more sophisticated
Show me where people have faster access to treatment
You can't, because such a country doesn't exist
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
I am an American citizen, but I moved to England two years ago. Since I have been in England, I have had my child without paying out huge sums (obviously it's paid through taxes). I didn't go home the day after she was born thinking "holy crap, just having this baby is going to keep me from being able to feed her!"
silkykelsy 3 years ago
I wrote more, but I think I'll just make a youtube video of it.
silkykelsy 3 years ago
Well I am glad that you like giving the government the power to solve all of your problems. Next you will be demanding a chicken in every pot and a pot to put the chicken in from the government! Oh btw, I hope you don't mind the patient stacking in England. If you ever get sick, you might be in an ambulance for several hours before you actually get to the hospital.
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
The English don't expect the government to buy their pots and pans nor their chicken. And you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the ambulance or "patient stacking". You are scared of change. Plain and simple.
silkykelsy 3 years ago
Of course the English don't expect that yet, but as long as they are thinking like a socialist, one day it will happen. Look at it this way, take social healthcare. You could say, "We want social health care because we don't want people to needlessly die from too high of a cost of medical care." Now say, "we want social food services because we don't want people to die of starvation because of too high food costs." Same logic, different application. Just a matter of time before it is thought
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
Speaking of patient stacking, you should watch this video:
watch?v=qaRZsSjWDmo
Afraid of change? Why change something that isn't broken?
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
We already have something like that. It's called food stamps.
silkykelsy 3 years ago
Which is why I am against food stamps...
Dmoney3788 3 years ago
you're a moron - a typical conservative who takes things out of all proportion and out of proper context. socialised medicine is the backbone of british society. like Tony Benn said, if you took away the NHS from the British, there'd be revolution. The state SHOULD provide certain things to ALL people, regardless of their income - education, healthcare, security and such "trifles", ha! you have socialised education in america, why not healthcare?
lichenxu123 3 years ago
because socialised healthcare will bankrupt the system.
TumblingDiaries 3 years ago
almost every country that has universal healthcare has 10% or less GDP paying for it.... america 'already' pays 15% on medicare.. and is expected to go over 20%. it's clearly cheaper to have universal healthcare.
everybody would save money... it's simple math.
but i can tell you one thing, the tax revenue from insurance companies is huge(hundreds of billions), thats why your government balks at universal healthcare... they'd rather make more money then help its people.
glacier1978 3 years ago
it's not simple math, the only thing simple about it is that it'll bankrupt the system, by allwoing those who don't work to have free healthcare. Taxes will go up, no questions asked. Your county is now just starting to reathink socialized healthcare b/c there is no money coming in.
TumblingDiaries 3 years ago
it IS simple math. look at what other countries spend on free healthcare, it all hovers around the same cost per capita(10%gdp). it doesnt matter if there are people who dont work using the system. the people paying high insurance premiums and not using it far exceeds that, and those are the people who will save money.. especially employers/busniess owners.
and canada is not rethinking healthcare. we'll never change that program.
glacier1978 3 years ago
no it's not simple math. let me dumb it down for you.
People who work = taxes = money for the government
People who dont work = no taxes for the government = welfare check to the unenployed
no, your government IS rethinking your socialized medicine b/c that system is going broke
the people who pay the high insurance premiums will stop paying once healthcare is socialized = less tax revenue for the government
TumblingDiaries 3 years ago
it IS simple math, i already showed it to you... 10% gdp is what universal healthcare costs, thats a FACT. there will be no increase in taxes since your failed medicare already costs more. government will save money. and no longer paying for insurance premiums will save the average citien money. simple math.
and canada IS NOT rethinking healthcare... if it's a system thats going broke? then why did canada have a budget SURPLUS last year? taxes were reduced for all canadians by 2% this year
glacier1978 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
it is not true...
saraevonensis 3 years ago
that is total nonsense! pointless wars in the middle east and wreckless borrowing and lending is what will bankrupt the system. don't be so simple as to think western countries can't afford universal health care
lichenxu123 3 years ago
I'm against it because it will require 300 billion a year in taxes (i dont feel like paying more) and the healthcare industry is understaffed already. Just look at Canada - thats why I dont want it.
Drexel2008 3 years ago
@Drexel2008 Look at the UK, much better and fairer healthcare than the US and ur argument is actually quite funny: The reoson the canadian health care system isnt great atm is because of a RIGHT WING government which hasnt invested in it properly, right winger caus the problem, then after THEIR failings tell us how shit government is. SOCIALISM is the only way. As long as there is humanity, there will be socialism.
TheRedflagflyer 1 year ago
The reason why I am agiansr Universal health care is becuase public schools and other socialized programs simply are not working. As far as fire departments and police. Fire deparments are typically handeled on a local level. Infact some FD acutally have volunteer workers. I have health care and don't make muuch money. But it is good health care. If there is universal health care I would end up with less coverage and higher taxes. How fair is that? I give to charity but I dont want to be forced
ocpud2999 3 years ago 2
Anderson Cooper is a tool.
Stan1208 3 years ago
a sexy tool.
linkinpark3425 3 years ago
I would just like to say that I am against the govt providing any kind of services to the public. Why not have public housing, public food, and everthing else we need. That is the difference between public roads and schools. Those are not services but a part of govt infrastructure.
timbosforporn 3 years ago 2
We already have public housing subsidized by the government. And we also have public food, the food stamp program. Police, Fire, Public libraries, Military, Postal Service. Of all the public services that we enjoy, we run from the one service that could save our lives. We live in a world a little different from the world in 1776.
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
food stamps and public housing are for people who can't afford that shit. You want to create a system that takes care of everyone and overrides our private health care system.
timbosforporn 3 years ago
Police are not a "service". Have you ever been pulled over and treated like shit by a cop? Can you go back to a judge and demand an apology or your money back for the "service". Police are a function of the govt because they are used for civil control.
timbosforporn 3 years ago 2
Actually, no. I treat them with the respect and dignity that they deserve. It's funny how that works. Because I've treated them with respect and dignity, I've been "let go" more often than I've been ticketed.
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
So then, what's your point? They're still subsidized by tax dollars. I want every American to be able to get healthcare regardless of their status in life. This is the only country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare to it's citizens. It's not about freedom, it's about greed. I've seen bad things happen to very good people too many times. It's an ominous sign to see how Americans care so little about their fellow man... fellow Americans. All for the love of a dollar.
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
I think Americans do care considering that we give so much money to charities here and around the world. I just don't see why we define caring as something that has to be done by the govt.
timbosforporn 3 years ago 3
Tim, I do understand where you're coming from. But I don't see any other way of addressing the health care crisis. There are valid points to both sides of the argument. In my opinion, the "for profit" in our system is inherently wrong. Like you said, we pour millions of taxpayer dollars into aid for other countries (Myanmar, China) but when it comes to using taxpayer dollars for our own citizens, we scream socialism! We'll help the world, but not our own.
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
paulusmagirl 3 years ago 2
Public Schools is like Universal Health Care. I agree with that because, in case you haven't noticed, our public school system is not so great.
timbosforporn 3 years ago
Let's look at France. They have the best health care in the world (ranked number 1 by the World Health Organization), it's UHC by-the-way, and their doctors make house calls! A maximum 35 hour work week with anything over that compensated with time off. By law, 7 weeks paid vacation for everyone, that's EVERYONE. Free college education. Child care averages about a dollar a day. Oh my God! It's Socialism! Something must be wrong! They must be goose stepping through the streets in jack boots!
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
15% unemployment no one under 21 gets hired in france. Do you remember the job riots that happen over their?
timbosforporn 3 years ago
I was unaware of their unemployment rate. Please point me to your source of statistics.
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
I don't have the stats but it something I heard.
timbosforporn 3 years ago
I thought so... Their current unemployment rate is 7.5%, but dropping. A bit high, but not as bad as a lot of other countries. Ours is currently 5%. So, in comparison, their standard of living, life expectancy, infant mortality rates are head and shoulders above us. We rank 37th, very discouraging for your "for Profit" healthcare system.
denimblueindigo 3 years ago
Oh please! Saying that those companies are evil for making a profit off of sick people is like saying grocery store companies are evil for making a profit off of hungry people! It's just so absurd. You don't know what it is you're talking about. It's so easy to make "profit" sound like a dirty word, when really it's completely benign. Is it a rule you HAVE to be an economic illiterate to be on the left!?!?!?!
TimeWarp66 3 years ago
I'm glad we're 37th. Wish we were much lower. Because that ranking of "37" is given by the HMO(Health Maintenance Organization) which does not measure quality what so ever. Only distribution. regardless of how poor the facilities are, as long as everyone has something, they give you a high score.
TimeWarp66 3 years ago
One for all and all for one :)
here it sound kinda silly that you go into other countries promoting "freedom" and you arent even taking care of your own
Darusdei 3 years ago
whatever, its your country do as u like...
well it all comes down to greed.
so my question is how much money u have to have to be happy?
Darusdei 3 years ago
depends what the type of emergency is. Is it a heart transplant or a simple cold? You cannot tell me there is no waiting list for a heart transplant in a country with socialized healthcare. Atleast with a competitive healthcare industry, if you have the money, you can cut in line. As much as some people would like to believe, this is not a utopian world. Its a dog eat dog world, someone will get hurt. So it is up to each individual person to look out for their own well being bcz no1 else will.
kayata123 3 years ago
well if u like the idea that with money u can cut in line... wich basicaly is the perk of the rich and im sure ur not a millionaire or even close... but the question is that are you thinking as "I" or as "WE" for example, my country is pretty nice example why it does work, u pay hard taxes ofcourse but hey, im happy :)
Darusdei 3 years ago
Well im still a student, two more years to go, but just because i am not rich now doesnt mean i wont be filthy-dirty-disgusting-rat-bastard-rich in the future. Thats whats great about a free capitalistic country, anyone can be "insert words here"-rich if they apply themselves. The WE portion i'm saying is that I dont want a society that relies and is overly needy to the government. Without that competitive drive all there is is stagnation. Look at the welfare system; what a drain!
kayata123 3 years ago
Well Finland has one the worlds best welfare systems, they said 15years ago that we would be in hell it seems satan has a pretty lousy pr campaign considering the scandic countries are doing great. you should try to visit some of these countries and see that it isnt so bad as ur media lets u understand.
Universal healthcare doesent mean that the governement desides who gets treatment or anything like that...
Darusdei 3 years ago
I hate to tell you but UHC does mean the government decides what treatment you get. The government, regardless of the tax structure, cannot support unlimited care. It's why there are restrictions and rationing in every country where UHC is present. But arguing over which idea serves people better still avoids the ethical dilemna of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Try as you might, you can't escape the ammoral methods of collectivism...although your intentions may be good.
crossofcrimson 3 years ago
well whatever mate, if america is fine then i quess it is... and about UHC, the government doesent deside what kinda treatment u get, that desision is left to the doctors...
and what comes to unlimited care, well i havent heard to this day that someone would have been denied care on any reason
Darusdei 3 years ago
I'm sorry but I beg to differ. The fact is every government who utilizes some form of UHC HAS TO have some type of restriction or regulation. If we decided that the government is paying for HC then what is to stop us from getting check-ups. appointments, and tests every single week? You think that a government would be able to afford that? The government, even with steep income taxes, cannot support unlimited care. They either ration the care, set price ceilings for providers, or both.
crossofcrimson 3 years ago
Well its your country, do as u like.
ofcourse every week checkups would be a bit much but who does that anyway? :D
but it gives great care for those who need it, we dont have lousy equipment etc as ur media let u understand...
but my country will stick to this since everyone feels that everyone should have possibility to see a doctor and get a good education and last time i checked we werent so bad at education department either.
Darusdei 3 years ago
Trust me...if you're offering free medicine, there will be a near unlimited demand for it...especially in a country like ours. The point is that your government DOES have regulation concerning it...but you don't seem to be aware of it. But none of these things are the issue. You still have a situation where men are working, by force, for the fruit of other men. It appears slavery hasn't gone out of style after all.
crossofcrimson 3 years ago
What's up to is for each of us to look after each others voluntarily. We will not be coerced into anyone's moral imperative. We are free.
FuckdaFish 3 years ago
Apmhflick ---- HOW much a MONTH you pay for HEALTH CARE INSURANCE in USA .... 300-400$ ... right ....
aviomaster 3 years ago
How much of your income goes to the gov't every year?
Apmhflick 3 years ago
That isn't because of the system, it's because of Americans. We're bloated, ignorant, selfish, and negligent parents. We smoke, drink, and eat unhealthy foods more than europeans, and otherwise partake of a wide variety of substances that are questionable in their necessity. We're unhealthy, and a lot us don't get care because we can't afford it, but if you can it's simply the best. Money talks like that. The problem is largely economic, but social also.
FuckdaFish 3 years ago
Keep laughing. America has the best healthcare on Earth.
FuckdaFish 3 years ago
Mate, you obviously havent heard much from the other countries now have you...
ofcourse you can get excellent care if ur rich in america buuuut here u get excelent care no matter are u poor or rich + we do have private hospitals etc if u like to pay for ur treatment...
Darusdei 3 years ago
The UHC debate in America is more of a debate on ethics than "what works best for the most people"...which I think many people are confused about. American government was constructed with the rights of individuals in mind...which includes the right to property. UHC, like all social programs, works through the dissolution of individual sovereignty to appease the majority. Our founding fathers feared such forms of tyrrany. It's why the U.S. is primarily a republic.
crossofcrimson 3 years ago
Thats great that there is private and public healthcare. Thats the freedom of choice. But I dont want to pay taxes on a service I dont use. Is there a choice plan for that? Why should the rich be punished for being rich? No doubt the rich can afford it but the reverberating consequence is showing society that "if your rich, we will tax the motivation out of you; just stay poor and reap other people's hard work." Get excellent care in a UHC, or get mother teresa like care in a private practice.
kayata123 3 years ago
Well the rich have moral imperative to help the less fortunate... and i think that is well understood here...
we wouldnt have survived if we didnt think more about whats good for everyone.
ofcourse in america u can become super rich and all but how many do get that rich?
Darusdei 3 years ago
Legislating moral imperitives is a bit of a slippery slope don't you think. Maybe I believe it's a moral imperitive to donate blood to the Red Cross. Should we start lining people up at the point of a gun and force them to give blood? You should have a right to remain neutral...and to redeem the consequences of being benevolent to others or at their detriment...But forced charity is coersive at best....regardless of your benevolent intentions.
crossofcrimson 3 years ago
correct. i do believe the rich should help the less fortunate. but just because of that it doesnt mean they should be forced to. its a moral individual choice to help. by taxing the rich (by the way is defined as what?) then the government would be discriminating. Your right, how many people do actually get super rich? Do those who are super rich get taxed just the same as those who are regular rich? Strange terminologies but there are levels of wealth.
kayata123 3 years ago
I agree with you.
crossofcrimson 3 years ago
We can provide socialized fire protection and police etc because those things are comparatively simpler and much less demanding than health care. Health care can't be as standardized as fire protection. It has to be tailored for individual recipients. America has the best health care on Earth because of our privatized medical industry. It's expensive, but we're a rich country. We can afford it. If you can't, then work harder, or get some help from your family.
FuckdaFish 3 years ago
hahaha, are you absolutely sure that your country has the best healthcare in the world? :D and first of your media is bashing the idea with comparing it to postal service or fire department and spamming stories how tons of ppl are dying on the waiting lines and cant get good treatment... i live in a country with universal healthcare and i've not waited, paid or suffered in anyway... jesus u ppl should stop listening ur media :D
Darusdei 3 years ago
Our media is one the biggest proponents of universal healthcare. I don't listen to them. I listen to people who understand basic economic theory. It doesn't take much study to see that it is not a viable course. I think you're just lucky you havn't gotten very sick. I have a friend in Canada who confirms the waits really are very long and that care has to be booked months and even a year in advance, and that the quality is poor. I trust him, and I trust sound economic principles.
FuckdaFish 3 years ago 3
depends what the type of emergency is. Is it a heart transplant or a simple cold? You cannot tell me there is no waiting list for a heart transplant in a country with socialized healthcare. Atleast with a competitive healthcare industry, if you have the money, you can cut in line. As much as some people would like to believe, this is not a utopian world. Its a dog eat dog world, someone will get hurt. So it is up to each individual person to look out for their own well being bcz no1 else will.
kayata123 3 years ago
NO, it's just based on profit and control for and by the gov't. You're wrong, There are longer waits. A Canadian newspaper recently reported that a pregnant woman was sent to Wyoming to deliver her baby. Pregnant women are told to book their hospital rooms months in advance. Universal healthcare proponents are liars. It doesn't work anywhere it is employed. It's not about exploitation. It's about competition. Competition engenders greater care and cheaper costs.
Apmhflick 3 years ago 2
If you want to know why, watch the movie "Sicko"
chloroformo 4 years ago
Socialized public schools suck. Look up videos of "Dumb Americans" and witness the products of socialized education.
loveliberty1776 4 years ago
or look socialized education in Europe... i dont know what you guys are doing wrong but damn ;D
Darusdei 3 years ago 2
In europe, they have vouchers allowing the parents to somewhat choose which schools their children can go to. It is not free market schooling, but it is closer to it than in America. Over here you have to go to the one school that is in your community; there is no competition so their is no need for teachers to go out of their way teaching your child.
jjenson2006 2 years ago
Some people today hate capitalism, believing it is the cause of mass inequality.
The truth is, we're not living in free-market capitalism. It's not free, the government has it's hands all over it. That's socialism.
Get the government out of it! Then with competition we could afford to pay our own damn health care.
Down with big government controlling our health! All they do is screw things up... don't trust the machine!
hempsavetheworld 4 years ago 2
American is the only country with our current GDP that doesn't have universal health care. Everyone deserves heath care. You shouldn't have to live in fear of going to the hospital not because your hurt but because of the cost of the hospital and how it is going to bankrupt you.
gotssdam 4 years ago
Canada has Universal Healthcare and 37% of the GDP there is total revenue. You'd have to have an awful lot of terminal illnesses to get your money's worth with that kind of taxation. Universal Healthcare also includes longer waits, poorer quality of care, and more gov't restrictions (for example, in Canada, a gov't representative made a Quebec hospital take down its English language signs because it said that there were not enough English speakers in the area to warrant signs).
Apmhflick 4 years ago
Against it. Not because I wouldn't like it, but because the government has a talent for screwing these sorts of things up.
Free markets is the way to go. Competition = low costs. Make your own choices.
Don't give the federal government the power to do any socialist programs.
hempsavetheworld 4 years ago 3
Free Markets=the rich get richer
gotssdam 4 years ago
The rich get richer because the government interferes. We haven't had truly free markets because of this, and that's why capitalism has been given a bad name.
sonnyrivers 4 years ago 2
free market = PROFIT, GIVE ME MONEY IM MAKING PROFIT
universal healthcare = cheaper because no loss of money in profit that will benefit a small group of person.
conclusion
free market = benefit to small group of person
universal healthcare = benefit to 99.999999%of people.
the 0.000001% of people constantly use their PROFIT to promote free market to continue making PROFIT, they want u to beleive in capitalism, therefore they spend billions of dollar lobbying to get what they want
wKoMoon 4 years ago
look at the industrial revolution and how the government didn't interfere. Many people died to line the pockets of the rich. Free markets is a throw back to wage slavery.
gotssdam 4 years ago
Sure, lets get it. Then we can see all the baby boomers and old people get disqualified for certain services. I'd love to see how Americans have a cow after they chose such a stupid thing. Also, I don't have a "STATE" paid fire department by me. They are all volunteer foundation savers. The fire departments we have are all LOCALLY ran. People are so nieve. STOP BEING
SnyperMD 4 years ago
One should not get health care as an entitlement. This country was founded on the idea that rights were to be protected and entitlement were to be earned. Rights like speech and defense can be observed in nature, but health care in nature is far from sophisticated and a long life is expensive. It is a nice thought but look at public schools. They stagnate and quality falls while cost rises. Only by freeing the managed health markets can agencies fill in the lower cost markets effectively.
SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR 4 years ago
We need Socialism NOW!
bilbosilbo 4 years ago
I wish the people at CNN where really that straight forward.
maxmydog25 4 years ago
Me too...(audible sigh)
billybobthompson 4 years ago
I did see a ad on cnn about a report on health care. Will it be informative or just more BS. If you want to see it its after the debates on Thursday.
maxmydog25 4 years ago
For Social Medicine even though i am a preventative maintenance person.
vaughnirv 4 years ago
safety first
billybobthompson 4 years ago
Hi billybobthompson: Read 'The Rockefeller Files' and see what you think about it. It has documented & relevant information of an 'eye-opening' nature... to say the least.
marhharris 4 years ago
I'll check it out.
billybobthompson 4 years ago
was this question answered?
and if yes what number was it?
667985 4 years ago
Nope.
No number.
billybobthompson 4 years ago