The Mystic Heart - Part 3 - Intellectual Illumination

[smallpotatoes989]

this is realy hard to get

[mikedjumpin]

I dont particularity like this, i find them trying to overwhelm people with the use of word's and diversion of supernatural experiences. i find the people that are best to learn from are those who speak simple and slowly allowing the listener to have their own view on the topic which is the whole beauty of mans study of life i guess you could say.

[gahgoo2]

They do sound like they're intellectually masturbating each other.

[Nhordmyr]

Imagine a world without our physic-thoughts. Really interesting thought where we might be now

[artistdigital]

The King of Mystics, Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jelani(ra), has a poem, composed of the words that he spoke in divine ecstasy, where he claims that he saw the kingdom of God as a piece of grain. It would be the strangest experience.

[stochastic42]

lol!!! I was walking in a field and I instantly saw the nature of reality. Is he remotely aware that his perception of that memory is more a result of the 15 hours of talking about it afterward? Is he aware how irrational that type of 'evidence' is? Is he aware that philosophers since the German idealists have been well aware that everything we perceive is perceived subjectively (or as he puts it through consciousness). He calls materialists naive but they are at least as naive.

[StarfishBingo]

@stochastic42

Check it:

w ww.an archa dia.co m

[NYCSOFTWARE]

Ken Wilbur is a smart dude, but I feel like this other cat is really into himself ... border line cult leader... like trailers, child molestation in the desert status ... I read plato's mind !!! lol And you can tell by his face that ken is like yo this dude's full of shit

[alliant]

@NYCSOFTWARE

i think you're projecting that haha. I don't get that at all. To me both of them are sincerely discussing ideas they have - and appreciating each other's presence.. I prefer this innocent projection when observing dialogue.

[smallpotatoes989]

@NYCSOFTWARE he is anything else but in to himself, that would mean he is an egoistic persons and monks by the way mediate to lose their ego and this dude has been meditation for 40 years. you be the judge.

[jhgosnell]

I think a better way to say it is that intuition can be in service of Spirit and express understanding in visual terms. It sounds too spuerficial to call it "intellectual."

[swatside]

so do u see a mental picture , or did your mind create it ,or did your mentaltity o state of mind let u see what was really before , jus askin peace

[taboosun]

No that I think about it maybe Deja vu experiences are somehow related to that. I had one today. It feels like you got sent back int time to a moment that had already passed.

[taboosun]

I have had that experience now about 3 or 4 times I would say. The experience that the man describes I'm saying.

Anyway he did one of the best jobs that I have seen expressing that experience in words. I think I am able to understand him because I have experienced that state as and can relate that experience mentally in words. It really does feel like you are carried in a stream of frames that play out eternally. Fascinating to remember but near impossible to explain. But I just did.

; )

[mxcreations]

6:27 - What is sensory whoopy?

[Dave00789]

drugs?

[BookCollector100]

I'm reading a book that describes mystics and philosophy perceptions and religious perceptions as well as their two separate foundations in a historical format. Its an extremely thick book but its so very interesting.

[BrianTheMusicMan]

Name? Author? Thanks!

[CloudshadowMan1]

Brother Wayne explains intellectual mysticism as one type of mysticism. It is more like a vision than a thinking. Ken says that this is how his books appear. Peace and contentment to all beings.

[rokDestiny]

where can i find - "preparatory to the metaphysics of nothingness" that brother Wayne Teasdale talks about.

[danreid56]

Ask the dying murder victim if God exists.

Ask the starving/homeless schizophrenic.

Ask the orphaned child.

To my mind ..God is Love..where there's no Love there is NO god. YMMV.

[mindful1983]

one problem you're defining god as love. another problem you're defining love as a dying person not to die, a sick person not to be sick.

[acrislazoiu]

and then when they reach higher power of the mind they have to become more familiar with their greater abilities to accept their new higher consciousness..

[acrislazoiu]

no brain growth would trigger consciousness because consciousness is actually in fact a bunch of smaller consciousnesses placed together which explains why a person can build their reading skill by reading less and then building up to higher

[somor98]

Spiritualism by default argumentation. Weak!

[DarkImperialism]

lol

[dgm4ever]

I don't think he understands that "infinitely infinite" is a complete redundancy.

[dgm4ever]

I take that back, I think I understand what he meant by that: an infinite number of things that are infinite.

[twsmpjlz]

so does ken belvie in god as well?

or just budha

[DonNotLoseHope]

I think Wayne is a great man.

My last comment was in reply to another comment!

[nagorbmit]

We are a vibration of light and dark continuously fighting for presence.

Manifestation is because of reason. We like to be in our bodies, to find out, and re-find out how it was in our caterpillar days because the greatness of being a butterfly is only great while we still can remember the not-so-great. And so on the atomic level and even in the bigger picture there is constant yin and yang, balance, paradox, infinity.

[marco054]

Trading in naive realism for naive subjectivism . I don't know what's worse. Most contemporary philosophers keep a kind of open-end kind of attitude towards ontological classification. Subjectivism is great to express personal experiences but to call everything subjective now really is making the same mistake as naive materialists, but then the other way around.

[telethon123]

Calling everything subjective now is moving backwards. It's Nietzschean (i.e. retarded).

[blabblab1212]

Well hold on there bobalouie!!

[SticksTweeks]

why?... because we integrally know we are not this one dimension. I'll see you at home, I'll be in the green paddock;)

[DustTown]

I've become a fan, IntegralNaked. Mr. Ken wilber, plz continue your effort to spread your ideas and develop new ones. I look forward to seeing you in the future.

[tjod123]

what a load of crap!

:)

[faithrada]

crap? Hmmm I suppose to someone who could not read .. the Illiad or the Bhagavad Gita would just look like chicken scratch. It all depends on one's level of perception.

[weeeezzll]

No, actually it's just a load of crap. They keep throwing around the words intellectual and intellect, but they use absolutely no reasoning to come to their conclusions.

[StephenRichardWebb]

The Divine Mind is like a perfect circle the circumference of which is nowhere, and the center everywhere - This place, as well as any other are but an expression of the Divine Will.

[joeyroo1]

oh! and you understand the divine mind?

did you advise the divine mind how to create the world?

[DonNotLoseHope]

obviously it is you who have no understanding of the Divine Mind.

[HaZ3L777]

weeeezzll; Don't be so closed minded. Don't make assumptions of something you haevn't experienced.

[weeeezzll]

Why do you think I'm close minded? Maybe I should start simply accepting every word from every kook who claims to have had a 15 hour long hallucination as absolute truth? That is totally absurd! I suggest you listen to this video once more but pause in one sentence intervals and examine each. You will see that they spend a lot of time talking but very little time saying anything of substance. When your done please summarize it for us "close minded" folks. I would love to hear it.

[scoobydoo84]

You don't have to accept everything everyone says. That's not why you are close minded. You are close minded bc they are talking about something you don't understand and hence you diminish and ridicule childishly by calling it a load of crap. If you state you mind doesn't accept other experiences outside of your universe as valid, you simply have a lot of growing up to do. And frankly, in that mindset ken wilber is way out of your league!!

[1988Mscott]

It's simple. You get somebody who knows nothing of science and get them to watch some neuroscience video and it will all just be jargon to them. You get someone like yourself who has no understanding of mysticism and show them a video like this and it will all just sound like nonsense.

To understand what they are talking about you will have to try to understand mysticism. You have no right to be critical until you have made a genuine attempt to understand.

[bustergmaxx]

your judging a lot from little

[weeeezzll]

No, what I *am* judging here is what they are saying in this video. I am basing that judgment on their words, my application of the scientific process, and what I know from science already.

There have been many scientific studies done on consciousness. All evidence suggest that consciousness is an abstract concept constructed by the mind. When the brain tissue dies so does the consciousness that it contained. It is no surprise to me mystics refuse to provide evidence, because there is none...

[mytubecomment]

weasel;

I suggest you read:

"The Hidden Messages in Water

by

Masaru Emoto.

[weeeezzll]

I suggest you read any book on critical thinking. Mr. Emoto fails to put his work through the rigors of the scientific process and openly admits it.

Wiki says:

"In the day-to-day work of his group, the creativity of the photographers rather than the rigor of the experiment is an explicit policy of Emoto. Emoto freely acknowledges that he is not a scientist, and that photographers are instructed to select the most pleasing photographs."

[ryanhayn]

You're an English class failure.

[SMITS808]

weeeezzll, i hope you can wake up to your immature,"close minded"(yes. close minded. I cant agree more with everyone), egocentric mindset. And take some deep breaths before repling to others comments. You obviously get very defensive very fast,and your replies to comments end up more and more idiotic.

[weeeezzll]

Defensive? How so? All I have done is state my opposition to the contents of this video in clear and certain terms. I have yet to see one person here even begin to try to explain what they are talking about in this video or it relevance to anything.

Asking for evidence before I accept an idea is not arrogant by any definition.

Feel free to support your claims of me being idiotic with some examples.

Your should always endeavor to keep an open mind, but not so much that your brains fall out.

[vibrohm]

If any of you are seeking intellectual illumination you can start by realizing weeeezzll's points are logically valid and if you seek understanding you should let truth and knowledge guide, not emotional blind faith. So, weeeezzll, I am not entirely sure you are wrong but consciousness has never been found inside the brain, also, archeologists have found that when man became self-conscious (ask if you want to know more),

[vibrohm]

unprecedented brain growth occurred, it wasn't the brain growth which triggered consciousness, it was consciousness that triggered brain growth, we know this to be chronologically true. There are also interesting studies by anesthesiologists on consciousness outside the body, well, most are quite vague but check out Pam Reynold's case, no brain-wave activity and no blood flowing in her brain or body, clinically dead. She experienced the operation and could even draw pictures of the tools the

[vibrohm]

doctors used and many other things, there is of course controversy in this case but if you want me to ill tell you why I think they are logically invalid. Those three arguments can easily support (according to me, i may be wrong) a valid theory about consciousness existing in other dimensions as well as the brain but not dependent on the brain.

[weeeezzll]

Intellectual Illumination? You mean a psychotic vision? There is nothing intellectual about anything said here. Just a couple of guys talking about something that doesn't exist, and then talking about how they envision that "something".

[scoobydoo84]

weeeezzll, The very statement you make is evident of a undeveloped and childish intellect. For you to reject something absolutley, you yourself have to be absolute and all knowing. Which you clearly are not!! Try to think about that one for a while!!

[weeeezzll]

scoobydont84,

Are you suggesting that I can't know anything unless I know everything? I CAN state absolutely that 2 plus 2 does not equal 5. I can make that statement absolutely without omniscience. Like I said before, none of the statements in this video are intellectual or are examined in an intellectually honest way. They are simply talking about their experiences and feelings, and making assumptions about links between those and some imaginary creator. Intellect requires reasoning...

[scoobydoo84]

Your arrogance lies in the delusion that you can absolutely ascertain comprehensively the entirety of their experience. You deny any validity to their experience based exclusively on the relativity of your own. Namely, that you have not had such a one. Hence, it is a load of crap. You are right 2 and 2 is 4 and to you it is a load of crap, which is fine. Asserting is absolutely and negating in its entirety is what makes your logic a load of crap.

[weeeezzll]

I deny the validity, of what they described, as ever *actually* happening. Anyone can have an "experience", but that doesn't mean that it actually happened. People suffering from schizophrenia see and hear people all of the time that are just as real to them as me and you but don't really exist.

When they provide some evidence for their experience then it will become credible and I will believe it. Until then it will remain as credible as the ramblings of a person suffering from schizophrenia.

[JGL53]

Beats the shit out of the Jerry Falwell types though, doesn't it?

[Fezly666]

two beautiful souls..great convo

[gunzkillu]

yes, two subconsciously aware individuals..

[michaelgrube]

There's something a little odd about this. It's kind of like a cult. Ken Wilber sounds too preachy and less like he's distributing information.

[gunzkillu]

true.. keywords: i was WALKING with a GROUP, he used the word "group" 2x.. self-enlightenment is something that happens on your OWN.. don't ask how i know.. its just my intuition.. it's sorta like when you just arrive on the secondlife world video game.. exept more peacefull and relaxing..

[Guedingen]

I understand what you mean. I think though wilber is genuine and he is saying something important