The preacher is so right when he says that right and wrong is decided by power. America is a christian nation, but it is also the most powerful country on the planet that is currently waging war in several nations, and have killed more people than any other country in the last past decade.
I hope God is not moral or I must be judged by morality law. The Bible does not teach we will be judged by law but by the Man of righteousness whom God has ordained.Acts 17:31.God did give law to prove man's flesh as powerless to obey it.God did not give His law to all men but to Israel and any foreigner willing to come under His laws.Morality is not God's objective.Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. Flesh will break law. Law can be created by man to restrain.Morality is futile
@phester061594452 Because man has not listened to God is why there is poverty and starvation. There is a very real sin issue within each one of us. If man listens to God follows His word, and actually look into how God created the world (through Scripture), we could see more clearly why.
...and at the age of 23 during a fatal bank robbery, one of the twins is gunned down by police and the other survives but is captured and sent to life in prison....then the one killed, according to Christianity, will go to hell right then. Now, the one in prison "finds" God and repents at the age of 45...that twin will go to Heaven because he dodged the bullet 20 years earlier? If you do not see the immoral unfair ridiculousness in that then you my friend have a psychological disorder.
@mjfraser04 .....hello, it seems you quite dont understand, apparently on the analogy you just described, none of the twins heard about God or his law on their law so they didnt realize what they were doing, so according to what i believe and know the first twin would be judged according to his works, we do have a mercy and loving God, but just like the heaven is higher than the earth his taught s are higher than yours....so is not your problem to be thinking about that, you should only (cont)
@mjfraser04 be worried about living a life that its worthy living for Jesus Death, dont try to play God thinking who will and wont go to heaven, repent, be obedient to his word, and love others the same you love yourself, God Bless you take care
your basing this one the bible so im gnna go the logical way explaining what it says on what u commented on lying based on that holds the same weight and im sure you lyed, yeah looks like your illogical
@emporroll134 Wow! Based on your horrible english, spelling, and your lack of using any puncuation...I have no clue what you just rambled on about. I do not discuss the topic of theism, religion, or science with uneducated people. Please read a book.
Since Chad loves analogies, let me propse one to him and any other Christian reading this. Now this is based off of what Chad is saying in the above video:
-If 2 twin children are born into a gang affliated, crime-ridden, abusive enviroment/family and are brought up being taught and knowing nothing but a life of crime due to the fact they were never exposed to what a person born into a Christian family is exposed to...and those twins go on to commit numerous murder, crimes, and sins...(cont.)
What makes rape, murder, child molestation, theft, and all other "sins" bad isn't the act itself, it's the negative effect it has on another person's life without their control, consent or permission. Much like being "created". What your God has done is selfishly create me when I was fine and content on not exsisting. But now I will apparently have to live for eternity whether it be in heaven or hell. What a selfish power-hungy God.
as a species that has come to form societies that can only operate under certain conditions. if the conditions of order and interactivity are not met, the society eventually collapses, and because we are more or less dependant on the societies set in place, such a collapse would be very harmful to us as a species.
how well would a colony fare of ants didn't follow their rules, and kept food sources to themselves?
No that is not how we do it. There are catagorical reasons to act a certain way based on previous occurances. That is how ethical systems are grounded. Teah after the guy dies its the same as when a fly die. He was alive now he is dead.
Is what hitler did wrong? He was right relative to himself for the same reason we are all right relative to the self when it comes to making this world our own. He was wrong relative to the jews or wrong to try to exterminate the jews (if you believe he even tried) because all human groups strive for the same thing (preservation of their "people"). Hed of thought it just as wrong (and I believe he did) for the jews to kill his "brothers and sisters". His hypocrasy proves his moral scale.
@Exarian Wrong, as most idiots are. Im merely involving hitler as an example because its in the video retard. Not because it serves my argument. Try again.
Hitler is evidence FOR moral subjectivity. If there was an inherent absolute right would he not feel/understand it as well? How does one explain the existence of people with no conscience?
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD SO why don't you or is your statement one of those "bravery while being out of range" comments? you know "I would if I was there, but I wasnt, but if I was...." Yeah right
@ruleofthespirit Morality is not objective, in the sense that it's God given, or that religion tells us what's right. However, there are moral absolutes. For example, it's wrong to rape and murder a child. It's easy to say why it's wrong. I don't need to be religious or have a belief in God to understand why it's wrong. A sense of morality is something that has built up over a long period of time and has evolved, and it aids the survival of our species and the planet.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "A sense of morality is something that has built up over a long period of time and has evolved,"
Nonsense. All mankind has an inbuilt universal conscience. Whether you live in upper Mongolia or on the Shetland islands or Tasmania or a remote island in the Pacific, everyone has the same standard of what is wrong such as what a lie or adultery or greed, malice, hatred, envy, stealing, lusting etc no matter where you are in the world and God says He will hold us accountable.
@ruleofthespirit Not everyone on the planet has the same standard of what is wrong. That's just clear and uncontroversial. I think eating non-human animals is wrong; it hasn't even crossed the minds of most people. A tribe fighting for survival in the middle of nowhere will have different moral standards than a group of people in SoHo, Manhattan.
Which God are you talking about? There's about 3,000 of them.
If you get your morality from a holy book, then you're just picking and choosing.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "If you get your morality from a holy book, then you're just picking and choosing."
Actually I don't get my morals from a "holy" book. I get it from my conscience (with knowledge). Before I could read I knew it was wrong inside when I told a lie. I knew it was wrong to steal, I knew it was wrong to envy what my friends had etc
The Bible says God put His law in our hearts and that we will give an account to Him for every thought,word, deed and intention of the heart.
@ruleofthespirit No reasonable person looks to the bible for moral guidance. There's lots of nice things said in the bible, but there's horrific teachings too. The bible condones slavery for example. So you're just picking and choosing the good parts of the bible, because we've evolved to a point where it suits us to keep some info from the bible and discard what we don't like because of the society we live in.
You are assuming you are reasonable? You cannot call yourself reasonable. That is something your peers will have to determine about you. Let me explain why.
The difference between advertising and PR is this. A man stands in a bar and declares to all the women that he is good in bed - that is advertising. A woman walks into the bar and says to everyone "he is good in bed" thats PR.
@ruleofthespirit I said "No reasonable person".... I didn't say "I'm reasonable". However, since I don't rely on religious texts for guidance, I would call myself reasonable for that alone. The bible is a stew pot of myth and irrational dogma, sure to attract fanatics and the desperate.
Original discussion was about morality. I take it you concede?
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "I don't rely on religious texts for guidance, I would call myself reasonable for that alone"
Do you rely historical texts to learn about history
Do you rely on scientific texts to learn about science
To say religious texts are" irrational dogma and myth", without the slightest evidence that proves God does not exist is unreasonable. If there is a God, Who created you and everything else then it will be unreasonable of you to ignore any texts or messages from Him. Right?
@ruleofthespirit There's usually not any evidence when dealing with historical matters, especially those stretching back a long time. Of course one can and should rely on scientific texts to learn about science. Science is based on observation, reason, testing, evidence. All the things that make the scientific method beautiful.
Religious texts are nonsensical. I'd have to give you examples and there's hardly enough room to go into it here. A man lived in a whale anyone?
@ruleofthespirit I'm not trying to prove that a God doesn't exist. I can't prove a negative. I can't prove God doesn't exist. No one can. I have no reason to believe that a God exists, therefore I don't. That's reason. If I had a reason to believe that God existed, like evidence that he/it existed, then I'd believe. It doesn't mean I'd be happy about worshipping a cosmic dictator (a cosmic North Korea). I'm born a sinner and must live my life to serve him? Fuck that. Take a hike, God.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "Original discussion was about morality. I take it you concede?"
Abssolutely not. You cannot say that your position is valid because you choose to dismiss the basis of mine completely. You are entitled to your set of morals but against what standard do you test it against to be able to declare that it is good?
Mine is tested against the Bible, especially the ten commandments for a start. How do you fair against it?
@ruleofthespirit "You cannot say that your position is valid because you choose to dismiss the basis of mine completely."
Well, yes I do, and yes I can.
"...against what standard do you test it against to be able to declare that it is good?"
It's complex, but in a nutshell it's wrong to knowingly perform an action that hurts another person. I'm almost certain that the "golden rule" was around long before Jesus Christ came along.
@ruleofthespirit Yes, yours is tested against the bible. This is irrational in the extreme. The bible has all kinds of horrific teachings in it, like the Qu'ran does. These days, "civilized" people take the good things from the bible that fit with the culture that we live in and discard the rest. God spends the Old Testament wiping people out. God orders the murder of all the worshippers of a different God in their own churches.
@ruleofthespirit In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
Isn't an atheist a more moral person than a religious person, in theory? I mean, an atheist is good for goodness sake. Religious people are good because they fear God.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD There is an absolute justice, a standard by which all mankind agrees on. Atheists say we are nothing more than matter and energy spinning meaninglessly in space for a time. If so, then having an absolute standard of justice is meaningless. What is the purpose? We would all die and become nothing irrespective whatever we did. Right?
TEST:
If I chopped open the head of a lettuce, a head of a cow and a head of a human, which action would you imprison me for and why?
@ruleofthespirit "There is an absolute justice, a standard by which all mankind agrees on."
And what is that?
"Atheists say we are nothing more than matter and energy spinning meaninglessly in space for a time."
Oh do we now?
Are you seriously telling me that the only reason you're good to other people, and kind to animals etc, is because your bible tells you to be (when you cherry pick the good parts from it)? Would you rape and murder and be a horrible person if you had no religion?
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "Are you seriously telling me that the only reason you're good to other people, and kind to animals etc, is because your bible tells you to "
“I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts...."
You are born with His laws in your heart. Its why we all possess a conscience (con =with, science = knowledge). It is the reason why you and (everyone else) know its wrong to lie, lust, steal, murder, envy etc
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD ".......the bible isn't a load of nonsense? By testing it and trusting it.
FYI, I was not born a Christian, nor was I a churchgoer, nor was I bought up in any sort of faith. In fact, I avoided those who did. But one day He came into my life and I have never looked back or desired the lifestyle that I once loved. Now I study that same Bible to find out all about Him. That is why I know you are so wrong, even though you are convinced you are so right.. Go figure
@ruleofthespirit God spoke to me last night, and he said that I shouldn't be talking to deluded people on the internet because it leads nowhere. I now know God exists. You win. Bye!
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD I thought you were prepared to debate Chad on these matters of moral relativity? Its not as easy as you think.
BTW, its too easy to call me names and run away when questions start to get a little harder or your beliefs are logically challenged.
I mean no offence to you , I am simply trying to get you to look away from your own pre-baked ideas and consider why millions of people just like you and I, who wanted nothing to do with God, give their whole lives over to Him.
@ruleofthespirit "BTW, its too easy to call me names and run away when questions start to get a little harder or your beliefs are logically challenged."
@ruleofthespirit The Holy Bible: Sixty six fairy tales, written by forty authors in three different languages on three different continents, over approximately 1600 years.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD The Holy Bible: A collection of 66 books containing the revealing of God to mankind, forty authors from all walks of life, after being inspired by God, wrote down and faithfully preserved the contents,in three different languages on three different continents, over approximately 1600 years, telling the same story, never contradicting itself, inspiring untold hundreds of millions of people over the centuries to change their lives. Still the most printed book in the world.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "God spoke to me last night, and he said that I shouldn't be talking to deluded people on the internet because it leads nowhere"
I agree with you. That is why its time you stop trawling atheistic sites (they are the blind following the blind) and consider finding real answers for the real questions in your life
@ruleofthespirit Reading your responses are akin to reading the entrails of a chicken. You're right because you're right. Isn't that it? Your holy book says X so it must be true.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD " akin to reading the entrails of a chicken." Nothing there, only gibberish - I mean giblets.
"Your holy book says X so it must be true."
I am not a blind follower. God positively challenges and encourages us to test , to check to find out if what He says its true. I believe today everything I have tested and checked. There is so much more to do. So far, He is shown Himself to me , as a critical person, to be right, to be faithful, to be just and honest and truthful.
@ruleofthespirit I'm an atheist, and I live a wonderful, fulfilling life full of love and laughter. I'm kind to people and animals. I don't even eat animals because I don't think I have a right to. I'm good for goodness sake. I'm not good because I'm in fear of being struck down by my imaginary friend if I do something that he/it doesn't like. And why would I want to live under such an arsehole anyway? I'd rather be dead, than be a slave in that manner.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD Right, looking at your comment, let 's see whose opinion matters the most to you.
I'm , I , I'm, I ,I ,I , I'm, I'm, I'm,my, I, I, I'd
Well, you made that easy to spot Romans 8:7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD You measured yourself up against yourself. All your answer consisted of is your own ideas and thoughts based on what you think of yourself against a standard of (self) righteousness that you have determined and approve of. Its why you reject God's.
Here is God's view of our own righteousness:
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
"All your answer consisted of is your own ideas and thoughts based on what you think of yourself against a standard of (self) righteousness that you have determined and approve of. Its why you reject God's."
And God doesn't?
God has become like one who is unclean, and all his righteous acts are like filthy rags...
@Keitaro2011"God has become like one who is unclean, and all his righteous acts are like filthy rags..."
God speaking about sinful people:
Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and EXCHANGED the glory of the immortal God for images made TO LOOK LIKE a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
@ruleofthespirit "If I chopped open the head of a lettuce, a head of a cow and a head of a human, which action would you imprison me for and why?"
I don't think you should chop open the head of a cow or a human being. However, in the situation you describe, you would do both and I have to choose one. Well, in any situation where there are two undesirable outcomes, you should choose the outcome that causes the least amount of suffering. Therefore I'd imprison you for chopping off the human head.
@ruleofthespirit I didn't say that. I said that chopping off the head of lettuce or an animal would cause less suffering than chopping off the head of a human being. Y'see, you set up the standard. I didn't. I was responding rationally and honestly to your question.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD " head of lettuce or an animal would cause less suffering than chopping off the head of a human being. " Im sure the lettuce and the cow would disagree with you.
It is interesting that you consider the value of human life (or suffering) more than that of an animal or a vegetable. You still haven't answered the question. FYI, If we came from monkeys and apes (even though our DNA is more compatible with pigs), when did our life value exceed theirs and who determined it so?
@ruleofthespirit You have your fingers in your ears and are not listening to me. The consequences of chopping the head off of a human being would cause more suffering (for the person, their family, friends etc etc). I don't think you should chop the head off an animal either, but you set up the standard and I responded rationally. I don't eat animals myself because I think it's unnecessary and unjustified to do so. Do you eat animals?
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "You have your fingers in your ears and are not listening to me"Let me make it easier, which is of more value and why do you think so?
a)A head of a lettuce
b) A head of a cow
c)A head of human
According to evolutionists humans are simply the dominant species - so how does that make us morally superior and of infinitely more valuable than say a cow or a lettuce. What if they were the dominant species - would they be considered kind if they chopped off our heads humanely?
@ruleofthespirit No one says that we came from monkeys and apes. If you're going to debate someone, you really should know a little bit about what you're talking about. We are apes. We didn't "come from" anything. Apes that exist now evolved in that direction, and we've evolved in the direction we've evolved. It's a truly wonderful fact. You should really look into it, you'd be fascinated. If you're only listening to irrational religious nonsense all of the time, that's all you'll ever know.
We don't look like apes (there are some similar bone structures) but we don't have the same DNA as apes, (actually we are incompatible with apes). We have a soul ,a spirit, a conscience, unlike apes. We are held responsible for our actions, we insist on justice.
You say we came from nothing? One minute we were not here and suddenly we were here fully formed as an ape? You sound like a creationist to me.
"You say we came from nothing?" Same old nonsense.
"One minute we were not here and suddenly we were here fully formed as an ape?" Wow. Isn't it you that say that God created everything all of a sudden?
@Keitaro2011 Dr Christiaan Barnard was the pioneer heart transplant surgeon. What heart did succesfully use? A pig's. Why? Because the ape's is incompatible. They failed regularly when transplanted into a human. Go figure.
@Keitaro2011 Dude I'm not going to sit here waste my time debating about something that you have your mind set on. so ok lets say we come from apes then who the heck created APES!
@Keitaro2011 Look man if I'm wrong and there is NO God and I died then nothing happens right? and if I died and THERE IS a God I Win something right? Now If YOU died and there is no God nothing happens but IF THERE IS A GOD and you died with out accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and SAVIOR A BIG SAD FACE FOR YOU!.... YOU SEE I GET WIN/WIN YOU GET WIN/LOSE and dude its all about humbling yourself and accept that you are doing wrong try to turn away from sin accept the gift(Jesus Christ)
@KingofKingsProd What if you die and the muslim God is right? Then you'll go to hell for being a Christian. Or what if you die and God will throw you in hell for beleiving things without evidence. Please stop using pascals wager. It's a horribly flawed argument that relies on a false dichotomy. And if YOU'RE wrong, then you've wasted the only life you know you have on spreading a manipulative poison that impairs human happiness and dampens progress.
Behavioural changes over time cannot be written into our DNA coding, behaviour is taught to each person by their parents. Parents have to teach their children to do what is right because children do all the wrong things automatically and teaching them to do good takes consistency and time. They need to be trained in good and acceptable behaviour. So your argument/theory does not stand up to real world experience. In reality man has never changed, only his methods have.
@ruleofthespirit Of course parents have an affect on their children's behavior, but the home is not the only source. Children are influenced by lots of things. I don't agree with parents indoctrinating their children with their religion. How could a child have a developed mental capacity to figure out what they think about the cosmos? No wonder the world is so screwed up. Idiots fill kids heads with shit, and in turn those kids fill their kids heads with shit. It's a cycle of shit.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD Ever heard the term "garbage in, garbage out"? We (parents, society, friends) influence others and they unquestioningly absorb it as gospel, make it part of their own (normal) life and pass the same message on. But who says that what society, or our parents or friends say is the standard by which we must live?
The Bible warns us of this in Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man and appears straight before him, but at the end of it is the way of death
@ruleofthespirit Yes, if you fill the minds of children with superstition and religious dogma, you'll get a lot of garbage coming out of their mouths when they get older. It's a pity that such mental abuse is tolerated in most societies in the west.
As for bible warnings, I'll have to presume from here on in that you're completely insane.
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD You avoided answering my comment assuming that what you say is right, without giving it any thought.
Has it occurred to you that you might have been living a lie and the Bible is right? Have you ever really stopped and looked around you and at your friends and family and considered that maybe they have it wrong as well.
Are you right? Have you no interest in finding out if you are living the life you were meant to live?
@ruleofthespirit I'm not avoiding any question you're asking at all. You're relying on irrational nonsense and dogma to form your view of the world.
I prefer to depend on reason and logic. My mind can be changed if I see evidence for a claim. Can your mind be changed? I don't think so. If there was any evidence for religious claims, then it wouldn't be called faith.
That is simply your point of view , your own belief system. It does not necessarily mean that what you say is true. How did you reach such conclusions? What standard did you use and what tests did you carry out to reach your conclusion?
Hopefully if you are a logical and reasonable person you are open-minded and you haven't simply trawled sites that agreed with your lifestyle and world view avoiding any which challenged it. Did you?
@ruleofthespirit What's my belief system exactly? I don't believe in anything that I don't have evidence for. Religious claims require evidence if a reasonable person is to believe them. There's a good reason religious people use the word "faith" - their beliefs have no evidence. If you want to go down that road, go ahead.
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?" Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?" Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
"Why would you get punched in the face or arrested if it is relative?"
Because we aren't punching the guy because stealing is immoral -- we are punching him because we want our stuff back
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?" Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
"Why would you get punched in the face or arrested if it is relative?"
Because we aren't punching the guy because stealing is immoral -- we are punching him because we want our stuff back
Of course its subjective.. its depends on culture -- for instance if you lived in a Muslim country under Shira law then you morals would be very different..
but you just happen to live in a western culture. where rape and honour killing ( for instance ) is not acceptable.
@badpanda84 The bible wasn't originally wrote in English, so it is hard for us to translate sometimes. When they say slaves it's is more like servants, they get housed, payed, and today terms would almost be like a butler.
@badpanda84 Wrong, it was evil, vile slavery. A butler is free to quit, a slave is not. The bible permit the master to beat his slaves, just as long a they don't die within a couple days. The bible is a far worse basis for morality then the average person subjective morality.
@bogusnachos Who was evil, the Israelites or God? According to you God does not exist therefore God is not the culprit. So is it the morals of the Jews you consider vile and evil?
@ruleofthespirit The god described in the bible is immoral, weather he is real or fictional. Slavery is immoral. I know of no jews today who advocate slavery.
I love it when people use the Crusades as an "example" of Christian brutality. The Crusades were a delayed response to two centuries of muhammadan aggression and violence.
@PostITnoteGUY The problem is not that I haven't made valid arguments, its that you have already determined that neither a god nor a supernatural exist before anything was said. Because of this predetermination, you refuse to accept even the most logical points both I and others I cited as logical. I'm not saying I have a perfect argument because I don't know everything, but to say that I haven't made a valid argument isn't true.
@PostITnoteGUY If my mental processes are determined wholly by motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true... and hence I have no reason fo supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."
At this point you seem to be ignoring what I am saying and forcing me to state things again and its wasting my time. I concede that I do not posses the ability to convince you that my arguments are compelling, but at this point I don't find your points compelling either
@PostITnoteGUY I don't find it compelling at all that animals can reason. It is speculation to say either way because we are unable to enter the minds of animals, but it seems to me that animals do not use reason. They have consciousness and seem to be able to experience feelings (as in pain and pleasure), but beyond that I don't see how you can call animal instincts to survive reason.
@PostITnoteGUY By the outside force is needed, I mean that something outside of nature (a supernatural) must exist for inferences to be made. (Please read chapter 3 of Miracles by C.S. Lewis. He explains this much better than I do)Inferences rely on the leap from an observation to a conclusion based on that some connection probably exists between events. One can see smoke every time someone sees fire and expect there will be smoke every time there is fire, but until one understands what...
@PostITnoteGUY If its just something produced by our minds, then there is no reason to believe it is true. And if we cannot accept that thought process as true, then how can we be sure if any thought processes are anything but an untrue product of our mind. And if this is true "If my mental processes are determined wholly by motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true... and hence I have no reason fo supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."
@PostITnoteGUY If you can't make inferences from observation (which is all nature allows for on its own) then a force outside of nature is required for inferences to be made.
How would you describe reasoning? reason- a mental faculty (or ability) found in humans, that is able to generate conclusions from assumptions or premises..
@cmosser14 smoke is, which requires insight beyond observation, one cannot say that reason is what makes one expect to see fire every time there is smoke. Once this insight is experienced, then one can replace a non-rational (not necessarily irrational) expectation with a reasonable inference.
@PostITnoteGUY So is morality just a series of biochemical reactions in our brains? In other words, is it just something that one's mind has produced?
@PostITnoteGUY My understanding of the supernatural is anything outside of nature. In other words, it is that which nature is unable to explain. The first few chapters of C.S. Lewis' book Miracles addresses this topic and gives, what seems to me, to be a compelling argument that there are things (reason and inferences are the 2 he addresses) which are experienced in nature, but are not "part of the total system" as he puts it.
@PostITnoteGUY would only be able to discern the light better. To be able to make the distinction that something happens over and over again requires only observation, but to be able to use that to say it will happen in the future requires an inference. Just like in the light analogy, seeing that something is good for humans doesn't mean one could make the logical leap to say that it will always be that way unless they appeal to something outside of nature (reason) to do so.
@PostITnoteGUY Let me put this another way. I submit to you that evolution is incapable of producing evolution because the process by which evolution would obtain morality requires something outside of nature. If humans obtained morality by observing things which are good for humans over and over again, that doesn't mean they would be able to discern anything beyond that one instance to apply to all situations. Having super-human vision doesn't allow you to understand what light is. You...
@PostITnoteGUY Sorry about not seeing this sooner. Is there any way in which I would be able to convince you that morality is objective and imposed by a being outside of nature?
@PostITnoteGUY My conception of morality is one that is imposed on me by a being outside of nature and is by no means an agreement on my part. My view is that I can choose to disobey the law, but the fact remains that there is a law that is unchangeable. Also, if morality is a product of evolution, wouldn't morality be changing? Why would everything be changing and evolving except for morality? Wouldn't it be forced to change as well?
@PostITnoteGUY I suppose another way to word my question is, do you believe that nature and "the natural" (things that occur in nature when nature is left unattended and unchanged) is all that exists, or do you believe in the possibility of the "supernatural" (forces outside of nature that have the ability to impose on nature things that temporarily disrupt "the natural")? Just to be clear, the possibility that a supernatural exists doesn't mean you necessarily believe it has imposed on nature.
@PostITnoteGUY First, I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying in the first part of this. If you could rephrase it I would appreciate it. Second, if the unchangeable nature of something is based on preference, thats illogical. It is either unchangeable, in which case it would not matter what people agree on, or it is relative, in which case it is based on the agreement that it is the case.
@PostITnoteGUY If it can be changed based on people's opinion, its not objective.
"improvement towards certain universally agreed preferences exists that is the unchanging element" If it is based on people's opinions, its not unchangeable, and therefore not objective. People's opinions can change, and if an unchangeable standard is based on something that can be changed, its not unchangeable.
@PostITnoteGUY Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, we use reason to discern the objective moral standard, we have the ability to change the objective standard? By objective I mean that there is no changing the standard. It is unchanging and final. Also, to clarify that I understand you correctly, you are arguing that the unchanging standard, comes from our changing social surroundings? If I'm misunderstanding please correct me.
@PostITnoteGUY I disagree that we use reasoning to set objective standards; rather, we use reasoning to discern objective standards. The feeling of "oughtness" (or that one ought do something) when you do something good and the feeling of guilt when you do something bad. I believe these feelings are an appeal to an objective morality that is ingrained in humans by something outside of nature. That one instinctively knows that one ought follow a moral standard (running out of characters...)
@PostITnoteGUY What I meant by that was I believe that there is a set moral standard imposed by a force outside of nature, and my understanding was that you believed in a set standard that is a product of evolution. I don't understand how there can be an unchanging (objective) standard that humans agree to. If the standard is unchanging, it wouldn't matter wether or not humans agree with it. Alternatively, if humans choose what the standard is (one we might agree to), its not objective.
@PostITnoteGUY Alright. So we disagree on wether an objective morality (unchanging standard by which humans determine actions to be either right or wrong) exists because of an external force outside of nature or evolved within nature. Am I understanding you view correctly?
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FollowerChrist777 1 month ago
The preacher is so right when he says that right and wrong is decided by power. America is a christian nation, but it is also the most powerful country on the planet that is currently waging war in several nations, and have killed more people than any other country in the last past decade.
astroboomboy 1 month ago
The bible is not absolute, it needs interpretation, and that interpretation changes over time.
astroboomboy 1 month ago
You totally read "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" love it
bammc19 2 months ago
I hope God is not moral or I must be judged by morality law. The Bible does not teach we will be judged by law but by the Man of righteousness whom God has ordained.Acts 17:31.God did give law to prove man's flesh as powerless to obey it.God did not give His law to all men but to Israel and any foreigner willing to come under His laws.Morality is not God's objective.Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. Flesh will break law. Law can be created by man to restrain.Morality is futile
polopowers1 2 months ago
If God's Morals of absolutes lead to harmony in society than why is poverty and starvation rampant across the world?
That doesn't make sense. Every moral value is subjective, it's all based on one's view of a situation. A society can have that view as well.
The bottom line is this: Absolution is more capable of serving the greater good of the greater world population.
phester061594452 2 months ago
@phester061594452 Because man has not listened to God is why there is poverty and starvation. There is a very real sin issue within each one of us. If man listens to God follows His word, and actually look into how God created the world (through Scripture), we could see more clearly why.
XLR8Street 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Good discourse. Exposing the fallacy of Relativism is crucial. Only through God's Morals of absolutes can there be harmony in society.
Brucev7 3 months ago
He has right, its all subjective and based on our culture, with that said... our morale can reach a higher level then what the bible even states.
quezcatol 4 months ago
...and at the age of 23 during a fatal bank robbery, one of the twins is gunned down by police and the other survives but is captured and sent to life in prison....then the one killed, according to Christianity, will go to hell right then. Now, the one in prison "finds" God and repents at the age of 45...that twin will go to Heaven because he dodged the bullet 20 years earlier? If you do not see the immoral unfair ridiculousness in that then you my friend have a psychological disorder.
mjfraser04 5 months ago
@mjfraser04 //"If you do not see the immoral unfair ridiculousness in that then you my friend have a psychological disorder."//
According to what absolulte standard of morality and how do you account for that standard?
ProofThatGodExists 5 months ago
@mjfraser04 .....hello, it seems you quite dont understand, apparently on the analogy you just described, none of the twins heard about God or his law on their law so they didnt realize what they were doing, so according to what i believe and know the first twin would be judged according to his works, we do have a mercy and loving God, but just like the heaven is higher than the earth his taught s are higher than yours....so is not your problem to be thinking about that, you should only (cont)
Sentimientodeuntigre 5 months ago
@mjfraser04 be worried about living a life that its worthy living for Jesus Death, dont try to play God thinking who will and wont go to heaven, repent, be obedient to his word, and love others the same you love yourself, God Bless you take care
Sentimientodeuntigre 5 months ago
@mjfraser04
your basing this one the bible so im gnna go the logical way explaining what it says on what u commented on lying based on that holds the same weight and im sure you lyed, yeah looks like your illogical
emporroll134 4 months ago
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mjfraser04 4 months ago
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@emporroll134 Wow! Based on your horrible english, spelling, and your lack of using any puncuation...I have no clue what you just rambled on about. I do not discuss the topic of theism, religion, or science with uneducated people. Please read a book.
mjfraser04 4 months ago
Since Chad loves analogies, let me propse one to him and any other Christian reading this. Now this is based off of what Chad is saying in the above video:
-If 2 twin children are born into a gang affliated, crime-ridden, abusive enviroment/family and are brought up being taught and knowing nothing but a life of crime due to the fact they were never exposed to what a person born into a Christian family is exposed to...and those twins go on to commit numerous murder, crimes, and sins...(cont.)
mjfraser04 5 months ago
What makes rape, murder, child molestation, theft, and all other "sins" bad isn't the act itself, it's the negative effect it has on another person's life without their control, consent or permission. Much like being "created". What your God has done is selfishly create me when I was fine and content on not exsisting. But now I will apparently have to live for eternity whether it be in heaven or hell. What a selfish power-hungy God.
mjfraser04 5 months ago
as a species that has come to form societies that can only operate under certain conditions. if the conditions of order and interactivity are not met, the society eventually collapses, and because we are more or less dependant on the societies set in place, such a collapse would be very harmful to us as a species.
how well would a colony fare of ants didn't follow their rules, and kept food sources to themselves?
Exarian 5 months ago
No that is not how we do it. There are catagorical reasons to act a certain way based on previous occurances. That is how ethical systems are grounded. Teah after the guy dies its the same as when a fly die. He was alive now he is dead.
AEVautomatic 5 months ago
that's what happens when atheists think they are animals, apes and chimps... they rape, kill and steal... Dawkins classified human as animals...
forgetmepls 5 months ago
Is what hitler did wrong? He was right relative to himself for the same reason we are all right relative to the self when it comes to making this world our own. He was wrong relative to the jews or wrong to try to exterminate the jews (if you believe he even tried) because all human groups strive for the same thing (preservation of their "people"). Hed of thought it just as wrong (and I believe he did) for the jews to kill his "brothers and sisters". His hypocrasy proves his moral scale.
vidfreak56 6 months ago
@vidfreak56 GODWINS LAW!
Exarian 5 months ago
@Exarian Wrong, as most idiots are. Im merely involving hitler as an example because its in the video retard. Not because it serves my argument. Try again.
vidfreak56 5 months ago
@ImGladImBrad how do you know "getting along with eachother" is morally right?
darkoblivion20 7 months ago
Lol; he should come down to Baton Rouge on the LSU campus some day...I'd have a field day with him!
shawnwilliams77 7 months ago
@RationalRespnoder
Stop picking on morons
OneBigRetard 7 months ago
I agree that someone who torture babies or wipes out Jewish people, is not wrong they are just unfashionable.
NoScopeN00b 10 months ago
lol why he saggin
Jorge007dr 11 months ago
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Hitler is evidence FOR moral subjectivity. If there was an inherent absolute right would he not feel/understand it as well? How does one explain the existence of people with no conscience?
JohnDoeBand1 11 months ago
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JohnDoeBand1 11 months ago
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JohnDoeBand1 11 months ago
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JohnDoeBand1 11 months ago
I'd love to talk to the guy on the soap box. I'd tear him to shreds.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD SO why don't you or is your statement one of those "bravery while being out of range" comments? you know "I would if I was there, but I wasnt, but if I was...." Yeah right
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Eh...no... He thinks what he's saying is smart, but it's not. I'd love to speak to him. Is it you by any chance?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD No its not me but please elaborate your response. Please point out where he is wrong and how he is wrong.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Morality is not objective, in the sense that it's God given, or that religion tells us what's right. However, there are moral absolutes. For example, it's wrong to rape and murder a child. It's easy to say why it's wrong. I don't need to be religious or have a belief in God to understand why it's wrong. A sense of morality is something that has built up over a long period of time and has evolved, and it aids the survival of our species and the planet.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "A sense of morality is something that has built up over a long period of time and has evolved,"
Nonsense. All mankind has an inbuilt universal conscience. Whether you live in upper Mongolia or on the Shetland islands or Tasmania or a remote island in the Pacific, everyone has the same standard of what is wrong such as what a lie or adultery or greed, malice, hatred, envy, stealing, lusting etc no matter where you are in the world and God says He will hold us accountable.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Not everyone on the planet has the same standard of what is wrong. That's just clear and uncontroversial. I think eating non-human animals is wrong; it hasn't even crossed the minds of most people. A tribe fighting for survival in the middle of nowhere will have different moral standards than a group of people in SoHo, Manhattan.
Which God are you talking about? There's about 3,000 of them.
If you get your morality from a holy book, then you're just picking and choosing.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "Which God are you talking about? There's about 3,000 of them"
Are there?
Point them out to me
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit All you need to do is use Google. Thor, Zeus, Aphrodie, The Great Joo Joo at the Bottom of the Sea, Allah, Yahweh, Baal, Apollo...
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "If you get your morality from a holy book, then you're just picking and choosing."
Actually I don't get my morals from a "holy" book. I get it from my conscience (with knowledge). Before I could read I knew it was wrong inside when I told a lie. I knew it was wrong to steal, I knew it was wrong to envy what my friends had etc
The Bible says God put His law in our hearts and that we will give an account to Him for every thought,word, deed and intention of the heart.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit No reasonable person looks to the bible for moral guidance. There's lots of nice things said in the bible, but there's horrific teachings too. The bible condones slavery for example. So you're just picking and choosing the good parts of the bible, because we've evolved to a point where it suits us to keep some info from the bible and discard what we don't like because of the society we live in.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "No reasonable person looks to the bible for moral guidance"
You are assuming you are reasonable? You cannot call yourself reasonable. That is something your peers will have to determine about you. Let me explain why.
The difference between advertising and PR is this. A man stands in a bar and declares to all the women that he is good in bed - that is advertising. A woman walks into the bar and says to everyone "he is good in bed" thats PR.
Prove to me you are reasonable
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit I said "No reasonable person".... I didn't say "I'm reasonable". However, since I don't rely on religious texts for guidance, I would call myself reasonable for that alone. The bible is a stew pot of myth and irrational dogma, sure to attract fanatics and the desperate.
Original discussion was about morality. I take it you concede?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "I don't rely on religious texts for guidance, I would call myself reasonable for that alone"
Do you rely historical texts to learn about history
Do you rely on scientific texts to learn about science
To say religious texts are" irrational dogma and myth", without the slightest evidence that proves God does not exist is unreasonable. If there is a God, Who created you and everything else then it will be unreasonable of you to ignore any texts or messages from Him. Right?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit There's usually not any evidence when dealing with historical matters, especially those stretching back a long time. Of course one can and should rely on scientific texts to learn about science. Science is based on observation, reason, testing, evidence. All the things that make the scientific method beautiful.
Religious texts are nonsensical. I'd have to give you examples and there's hardly enough room to go into it here. A man lived in a whale anyone?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit I'm not trying to prove that a God doesn't exist. I can't prove a negative. I can't prove God doesn't exist. No one can. I have no reason to believe that a God exists, therefore I don't. That's reason. If I had a reason to believe that God existed, like evidence that he/it existed, then I'd believe. It doesn't mean I'd be happy about worshipping a cosmic dictator (a cosmic North Korea). I'm born a sinner and must live my life to serve him? Fuck that. Take a hike, God.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "Original discussion was about morality. I take it you concede?"
Abssolutely not. You cannot say that your position is valid because you choose to dismiss the basis of mine completely. You are entitled to your set of morals but against what standard do you test it against to be able to declare that it is good?
Mine is tested against the Bible, especially the ten commandments for a start. How do you fair against it?
Give it a try.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit "You cannot say that your position is valid because you choose to dismiss the basis of mine completely."
Well, yes I do, and yes I can.
"...against what standard do you test it against to be able to declare that it is good?"
It's complex, but in a nutshell it's wrong to knowingly perform an action that hurts another person. I'm almost certain that the "golden rule" was around long before Jesus Christ came along.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Yes, yours is tested against the bible. This is irrational in the extreme. The bible has all kinds of horrific teachings in it, like the Qu'ran does. These days, "civilized" people take the good things from the bible that fit with the culture that we live in and discard the rest. God spends the Old Testament wiping people out. God orders the murder of all the worshippers of a different God in their own churches.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
Isn't an atheist a more moral person than a religious person, in theory? I mean, an atheist is good for goodness sake. Religious people are good because they fear God.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD There is an absolute justice, a standard by which all mankind agrees on. Atheists say we are nothing more than matter and energy spinning meaninglessly in space for a time. If so, then having an absolute standard of justice is meaningless. What is the purpose? We would all die and become nothing irrespective whatever we did. Right?
TEST:
If I chopped open the head of a lettuce, a head of a cow and a head of a human, which action would you imprison me for and why?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit "There is an absolute justice, a standard by which all mankind agrees on."
And what is that?
"Atheists say we are nothing more than matter and energy spinning meaninglessly in space for a time."
Oh do we now?
Are you seriously telling me that the only reason you're good to other people, and kind to animals etc, is because your bible tells you to be (when you cherry pick the good parts from it)? Would you rape and murder and be a horrible person if you had no religion?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "Are you seriously telling me that the only reason you're good to other people, and kind to animals etc, is because your bible tells you to "
“I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts...."
You are born with His laws in your heart. Its why we all possess a conscience (con =with, science = knowledge). It is the reason why you and (everyone else) know its wrong to lie, lust, steal, murder, envy etc
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit How are you so sure that the bible isn't a load of nonsense?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
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ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD ".......the bible isn't a load of nonsense? By testing it and trusting it.
FYI, I was not born a Christian, nor was I a churchgoer, nor was I bought up in any sort of faith. In fact, I avoided those who did. But one day He came into my life and I have never looked back or desired the lifestyle that I once loved. Now I study that same Bible to find out all about Him. That is why I know you are so wrong, even though you are convinced you are so right.. Go figure
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit God spoke to me last night, and he said that I shouldn't be talking to deluded people on the internet because it leads nowhere. I now know God exists. You win. Bye!
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD I thought you were prepared to debate Chad on these matters of moral relativity? Its not as easy as you think.
BTW, its too easy to call me names and run away when questions start to get a little harder or your beliefs are logically challenged.
I mean no offence to you , I am simply trying to get you to look away from your own pre-baked ideas and consider why millions of people just like you and I, who wanted nothing to do with God, give their whole lives over to Him.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
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@ruleofthespirit "BTW, its too easy to call me names and run away when questions start to get a little harder or your beliefs are logically challenged."
You can't be serious.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit The Holy Bible: Sixty six fairy tales, written by forty authors in three different languages on three different continents, over approximately 1600 years.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD The Holy Bible: A collection of 66 books containing the revealing of God to mankind, forty authors from all walks of life, after being inspired by God, wrote down and faithfully preserved the contents,in three different languages on three different continents, over approximately 1600 years, telling the same story, never contradicting itself, inspiring untold hundreds of millions of people over the centuries to change their lives. Still the most printed book in the world.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit That doesn't prove it's the word of God. At all.
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "God spoke to me last night, and he said that I shouldn't be talking to deluded people on the internet because it leads nowhere"
I agree with you. That is why its time you stop trawling atheistic sites (they are the blind following the blind) and consider finding real answers for the real questions in your life
A good site to start is needgod dot com
Keep well and thanks for the chat.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Reading your responses are akin to reading the entrails of a chicken. You're right because you're right. Isn't that it? Your holy book says X so it must be true.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD " akin to reading the entrails of a chicken." Nothing there, only gibberish - I mean giblets.
"Your holy book says X so it must be true."
I am not a blind follower. God positively challenges and encourages us to test , to check to find out if what He says its true. I believe today everything I have tested and checked. There is so much more to do. So far, He is shown Himself to me , as a critical person, to be right, to be faithful, to be just and honest and truthful.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Why doesn't his morality withstand scurtiny, then?
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit I'm an atheist, and I live a wonderful, fulfilling life full of love and laughter. I'm kind to people and animals. I don't even eat animals because I don't think I have a right to. I'm good for goodness sake. I'm not good because I'm in fear of being struck down by my imaginary friend if I do something that he/it doesn't like. And why would I want to live under such an arsehole anyway? I'd rather be dead, than be a slave in that manner.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD Right, looking at your comment, let 's see whose opinion matters the most to you.
I'm , I , I'm, I ,I ,I , I'm, I'm, I'm,my, I, I, I'd
Well, you made that easy to spot Romans 8:7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Did it take you three days to think of that one?
You asked me questions that required my answer, and require that I use I, I'm, my, etc etc...
Just throw in the towel now...
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
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@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "Did it take you three days to think of that one?"
Lol!! No , I have a life.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD You measured yourself up against yourself. All your answer consisted of is your own ideas and thoughts based on what you think of yourself against a standard of (self) righteousness that you have determined and approve of. Its why you reject God's.
Here is God's view of our own righteousness:
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Yeah great.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
"All your answer consisted of is your own ideas and thoughts based on what you think of yourself against a standard of (self) righteousness that you have determined and approve of. Its why you reject God's."
And God doesn't?
God has become like one who is unclean, and all his righteous acts are like filthy rags...
See how easy that is?
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@Keitaro2011"God has become like one who is unclean, and all his righteous acts are like filthy rags..."
God speaking about sinful people:
Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and EXCHANGED the glory of the immortal God for images made TO LOOK LIKE a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Would you care to actually address my points?
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit "If I chopped open the head of a lettuce, a head of a cow and a head of a human, which action would you imprison me for and why?"
I don't think you should chop open the head of a cow or a human being. However, in the situation you describe, you would do both and I have to choose one. Well, in any situation where there are two undesirable outcomes, you should choose the outcome that causes the least amount of suffering. Therefore I'd imprison you for chopping off the human head.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "I don't think you should chop open the head of a cow or a human being"
How and why do you consider that the human life is of more value than the the cow or the lettuce - all three have life in them.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit I didn't say that. I said that chopping off the head of lettuce or an animal would cause less suffering than chopping off the head of a human being. Y'see, you set up the standard. I didn't. I was responding rationally and honestly to your question.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD " head of lettuce or an animal would cause less suffering than chopping off the head of a human being. " Im sure the lettuce and the cow would disagree with you.
It is interesting that you consider the value of human life (or suffering) more than that of an animal or a vegetable. You still haven't answered the question. FYI, If we came from monkeys and apes (even though our DNA is more compatible with pigs), when did our life value exceed theirs and who determined it so?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit You have your fingers in your ears and are not listening to me. The consequences of chopping the head off of a human being would cause more suffering (for the person, their family, friends etc etc). I don't think you should chop the head off an animal either, but you set up the standard and I responded rationally. I don't eat animals myself because I think it's unnecessary and unjustified to do so. Do you eat animals?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "You have your fingers in your ears and are not listening to me"Let me make it easier, which is of more value and why do you think so?
a)A head of a lettuce
b) A head of a cow
c)A head of human
According to evolutionists humans are simply the dominant species - so how does that make us morally superior and of infinitely more valuable than say a cow or a lettuce. What if they were the dominant species - would they be considered kind if they chopped off our heads humanely?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit I've answered this in detail.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit No one says that we came from monkeys and apes. If you're going to debate someone, you really should know a little bit about what you're talking about. We are apes. We didn't "come from" anything. Apes that exist now evolved in that direction, and we've evolved in the direction we've evolved. It's a truly wonderful fact. You should really look into it, you'd be fascinated. If you're only listening to irrational religious nonsense all of the time, that's all you'll ever know.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD "We are apes. We didn't "come from" anything"
We don't look like apes (there are some similar bone structures) but we don't have the same DNA as apes, (actually we are incompatible with apes). We have a soul ,a spirit, a conscience, unlike apes. We are held responsible for our actions, we insist on justice.
You say we came from nothing? One minute we were not here and suddenly we were here fully formed as an ape? You sound like a creationist to me.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
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@ruleofthespirit "We don't look like apes" Wow.
"You say we came from nothing?" Same old nonsense.
"One minute we were not here and suddenly we were here fully formed as an ape?" Wow. Isn't it you that say that God created everything all of a sudden?
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Can you demonstrate a soul/spirit exist?
We DO share 99% of the DNA of apes.
Also, stop telling people that they believe we come from nothing. NOBODY is saying that.
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@Keitaro2011 Dr Christiaan Barnard was the pioneer heart transplant surgeon. What heart did succesfully use? A pig's. Why? Because the ape's is incompatible. They failed regularly when transplanted into a human. Go figure.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Still doesn't make ERVs go away.
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@Keitaro2011 ERV? Which one? Emergency Response Vehicle,Energy Recovery Ventilator,English Revised Version,Endogenous Retrovirus, Expiratory Reserve Volume, Earth Return Vehicle, Estimated Retail Value,Extended Remote Viewing ,Estimated Rental Value, Estimated Replacement Value, Emergency Rendezvous, Emergency Relief Valve,Euphrates River Valley, electromatic relief valve, Effective Radiated Voltage,Earth Re-entry Vehicle, Ecotropic Recombinant Virus?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Judging by the context of the conversation, which one do YOU think?
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Ecotropic Recombinant Virus
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit No.
Keitaro2011 11 months ago
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@Keitaro2011 "Can you demonstrate a soul/spirit exist?"
I saw this and thought you should look at it and decide for yourself. Its about an atheist professor who died.
watch?v=xVi1GAHrILI&feature=related
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@Keitaro2011 yes people do say that!
KingofKingsProd 9 months ago
@KingofKingsProd Who?
Keitaro2011 9 months ago
@Keitaro2011 people like I said!
KingofKingsProd 9 months ago
@KingofKingsProd Like who? Give some examples.
Keitaro2011 9 months ago
@Keitaro2011 Dude I'm not going to sit here waste my time debating about something that you have your mind set on. so ok lets say we come from apes then who the heck created APES!
KingofKingsProd 9 months ago
@KingofKingsProd See, here we go! It's a loaded question. Why do you say "who" instead of "what"?
Keitaro2011 9 months ago
@Keitaro2011 Look man if I'm wrong and there is NO God and I died then nothing happens right? and if I died and THERE IS a God I Win something right? Now If YOU died and there is no God nothing happens but IF THERE IS A GOD and you died with out accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and SAVIOR A BIG SAD FACE FOR YOU!.... YOU SEE I GET WIN/WIN YOU GET WIN/LOSE and dude its all about humbling yourself and accept that you are doing wrong try to turn away from sin accept the gift(Jesus Christ)
KingofKingsProd 9 months ago
@KingofKingsProd What if you die and the muslim God is right? Then you'll go to hell for being a Christian. Or what if you die and God will throw you in hell for beleiving things without evidence. Please stop using pascals wager. It's a horribly flawed argument that relies on a false dichotomy. And if YOU'RE wrong, then you've wasted the only life you know you have on spreading a manipulative poison that impairs human happiness and dampens progress.
Keitaro2011 9 months ago
@Keitaro2011 and you have nothing to lose what sin do you love so much that you don't wanna get right with God play it safe!
KingofKingsProd 9 months ago
@KingofKingsProd The sin of empathy. I'd rather not become an unjust, callous, cruel being that thinks it's okay to torture somebody forever.
Keitaro2011 9 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD
Behavioural changes over time cannot be written into our DNA coding, behaviour is taught to each person by their parents. Parents have to teach their children to do what is right because children do all the wrong things automatically and teaching them to do good takes consistency and time. They need to be trained in good and acceptable behaviour. So your argument/theory does not stand up to real world experience. In reality man has never changed, only his methods have.
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Of course parents have an affect on their children's behavior, but the home is not the only source. Children are influenced by lots of things. I don't agree with parents indoctrinating their children with their religion. How could a child have a developed mental capacity to figure out what they think about the cosmos? No wonder the world is so screwed up. Idiots fill kids heads with shit, and in turn those kids fill their kids heads with shit. It's a cycle of shit.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD Ha! Cycle of shit.
"Honey, why does my new shirt smell funny?"
"That old washer of ours got stuck on Shit Cycle again."
"Shit Cycle?! What brand is it?"
"Whirlpoo."
"Whoa, Fred! When did you get the new motorcycle?"
"It's not a motorcycle, it's a shitcycle."
"Why do you call it that?"
"Get on."
"Okay, but don't go too fas... S H I I I I I I I I I I I i i i i i iiiiiiiittttttt..."
SamcasticAtGmail 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD Ever heard the term "garbage in, garbage out"? We (parents, society, friends) influence others and they unquestioningly absorb it as gospel, make it part of their own (normal) life and pass the same message on. But who says that what society, or our parents or friends say is the standard by which we must live?
The Bible warns us of this in Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man and appears straight before him, but at the end of it is the way of death
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit Yes, if you fill the minds of children with superstition and religious dogma, you'll get a lot of garbage coming out of their mouths when they get older. It's a pity that such mental abuse is tolerated in most societies in the west.
As for bible warnings, I'll have to presume from here on in that you're completely insane.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD You avoided answering my comment assuming that what you say is right, without giving it any thought.
Has it occurred to you that you might have been living a lie and the Bible is right? Have you ever really stopped and looked around you and at your friends and family and considered that maybe they have it wrong as well.
Are you right? Have you no interest in finding out if you are living the life you were meant to live?
Are you living someone else's idea of life?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit I'm not avoiding any question you're asking at all. You're relying on irrational nonsense and dogma to form your view of the world.
I prefer to depend on reason and logic. My mind can be changed if I see evidence for a claim. Can your mind be changed? I don't think so. If there was any evidence for religious claims, then it wouldn't be called faith.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
@BrideAndGroomFilmsHD " irrational nonsense and dogma"
That is simply your point of view , your own belief system. It does not necessarily mean that what you say is true. How did you reach such conclusions? What standard did you use and what tests did you carry out to reach your conclusion?
Hopefully if you are a logical and reasonable person you are open-minded and you haven't simply trawled sites that agreed with your lifestyle and world view avoiding any which challenged it. Did you?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit What's my belief system exactly? I don't believe in anything that I don't have evidence for. Religious claims require evidence if a reasonable person is to believe them. There's a good reason religious people use the word "faith" - their beliefs have no evidence. If you want to go down that road, go ahead.
BrideAndGroomFilmsHD 11 months ago
This debates is lame. Check the link to " moral superiority of atheism" to which this vid is supposedly a response.
bogusnachos 11 months ago
@bogusnachos I did but not all the way through because its dullness and self-serving drivel , in my opinion, helped me fall asleep
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?"
OF course -- if 1000 Iraqis get murders no one gives a shit yet if 2 US solders get killed it makes the news
badpanda84 1 year ago
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@BenjaminWirtz
So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?"
yes -- think about it -- a thousand Iraqis get killed and no one gives a shit -- yet a few US solider die and it make the news
badpanda84 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BenjaminWirtz
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?" Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
badpanda84 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BenjaminWirtz
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?" Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
"Why would you get punched in the face or arrested if it is relative?"
Because we aren't punching the guy because stealing is immoral -- we are punching him because we want our stuff back
badpanda84 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BenjaminWirtz
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?" Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
"Why would you get punched in the face or arrested if it is relative?"
Because we aren't punching the guy because stealing is immoral -- we are punching him because we want our stuff back
badpanda84 1 year ago
Just love watching the relativists squirm under pressure.
Childinfaith 1 year ago
Lol at 4:20 but the risk of getting punch in the face ( or arrested) is a very good reason not to steal someones wallet.
badpanda84 1 year ago
@badpanda84
Why would you get punched in the face or arrested if it is relative?
BenjaminWirtz 1 year ago
Of course its subjective.. its depends on culture -- for instance if you lived in a Muslim country under Shira law then you morals would be very different..
but you just happen to live in a western culture. where rape and honour killing ( for instance ) is not acceptable.
badpanda84 1 year ago
@badpanda84
So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?
BenjaminWirtz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BenjaminWirtz
"So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?"
Of course -- thousands of Iraqi for example get killed all the time yet no one gives a shit. Yet when a few US soldiers die it makes headlines
"Why would you get punched in the face or arrested if it is relative?"
Because we aren't punching the guy because stealing is immoral -- we are punching him because we want our stuff back
badpanda84 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BenjaminWirtz
So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?"
yes -- think about it -- a thousand Iraqis get killed and no one gives a shit -- yet a few US solider die and it make the news
badpanda84 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BenjaminWirtz
So then you have no problem with someone raping or killing as long as they are not in our society?
Of course.. no one care is say 1000 iraqis get murdered yet if 2 american soliders get murdered it makes the news
badpanda84 1 year ago
Of course morality is subjective -- otherwise why is slavery acceptable in the bible and not today..
badpanda84 1 year ago
@badpanda84 The bible wasn't originally wrote in English, so it is hard for us to translate sometimes. When they say slaves it's is more like servants, they get housed, payed, and today terms would almost be like a butler.
thebigjc37 1 year ago
@thebigjc37 When they say slaves it's is more like servants, they get housed, payed, and today terms would almost be like a butler"
But it wasnt voluntary like being a butler.. but admittly they were treated slightly better than the negros ( which isnt saying much)
badpanda84 1 year ago
@badpanda84 Wrong, it was evil, vile slavery. A butler is free to quit, a slave is not. The bible permit the master to beat his slaves, just as long a they don't die within a couple days. The bible is a far worse basis for morality then the average person subjective morality.
bogusnachos 11 months ago
@bogusnachos I agree
badpanda84 11 months ago
@bogusnachos Who was evil, the Israelites or God? According to you God does not exist therefore God is not the culprit. So is it the morals of the Jews you consider vile and evil?
ruleofthespirit 11 months ago
@ruleofthespirit The god described in the bible is immoral, weather he is real or fictional. Slavery is immoral. I know of no jews today who advocate slavery.
bogusnachos 11 months ago
I love it when people use the Crusades as an "example" of Christian brutality. The Crusades were a delayed response to two centuries of muhammadan aggression and violence.
iqknowles 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY The problem is not that I haven't made valid arguments, its that you have already determined that neither a god nor a supernatural exist before anything was said. Because of this predetermination, you refuse to accept even the most logical points both I and others I cited as logical. I'm not saying I have a perfect argument because I don't know everything, but to say that I haven't made a valid argument isn't true.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY If my mental processes are determined wholly by motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true... and hence I have no reason fo supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."
At this point you seem to be ignoring what I am saying and forcing me to state things again and its wasting my time. I concede that I do not posses the ability to convince you that my arguments are compelling, but at this point I don't find your points compelling either
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY and i'm actually talking about the concept of any conscious being reasoning. not just humans and their "higher reasoning"
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY I don't find it compelling at all that animals can reason. It is speculation to say either way because we are unable to enter the minds of animals, but it seems to me that animals do not use reason. They have consciousness and seem to be able to experience feelings (as in pain and pleasure), but beyond that I don't see how you can call animal instincts to survive reason.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY By the outside force is needed, I mean that something outside of nature (a supernatural) must exist for inferences to be made. (Please read chapter 3 of Miracles by C.S. Lewis. He explains this much better than I do)Inferences rely on the leap from an observation to a conclusion based on that some connection probably exists between events. One can see smoke every time someone sees fire and expect there will be smoke every time there is fire, but until one understands what...
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY If its just something produced by our minds, then there is no reason to believe it is true. And if we cannot accept that thought process as true, then how can we be sure if any thought processes are anything but an untrue product of our mind. And if this is true "If my mental processes are determined wholly by motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true... and hence I have no reason fo supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY If you can't make inferences from observation (which is all nature allows for on its own) then a force outside of nature is required for inferences to be made.
How would you describe reasoning? reason- a mental faculty (or ability) found in humans, that is able to generate conclusions from assumptions or premises..
reasoning- the use of reason
cmosser14 1 year ago
@cmosser14 smoke is, which requires insight beyond observation, one cannot say that reason is what makes one expect to see fire every time there is smoke. Once this insight is experienced, then one can replace a non-rational (not necessarily irrational) expectation with a reasonable inference.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY So is morality just a series of biochemical reactions in our brains? In other words, is it just something that one's mind has produced?
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY My understanding of the supernatural is anything outside of nature. In other words, it is that which nature is unable to explain. The first few chapters of C.S. Lewis' book Miracles addresses this topic and gives, what seems to me, to be a compelling argument that there are things (reason and inferences are the 2 he addresses) which are experienced in nature, but are not "part of the total system" as he puts it.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY would only be able to discern the light better. To be able to make the distinction that something happens over and over again requires only observation, but to be able to use that to say it will happen in the future requires an inference. Just like in the light analogy, seeing that something is good for humans doesn't mean one could make the logical leap to say that it will always be that way unless they appeal to something outside of nature (reason) to do so.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY Let me put this another way. I submit to you that evolution is incapable of producing evolution because the process by which evolution would obtain morality requires something outside of nature. If humans obtained morality by observing things which are good for humans over and over again, that doesn't mean they would be able to discern anything beyond that one instance to apply to all situations. Having super-human vision doesn't allow you to understand what light is. You...
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY Sorry about not seeing this sooner. Is there any way in which I would be able to convince you that morality is objective and imposed by a being outside of nature?
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY My conception of morality is one that is imposed on me by a being outside of nature and is by no means an agreement on my part. My view is that I can choose to disobey the law, but the fact remains that there is a law that is unchangeable. Also, if morality is a product of evolution, wouldn't morality be changing? Why would everything be changing and evolving except for morality? Wouldn't it be forced to change as well?
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY I suppose another way to word my question is, do you believe that nature and "the natural" (things that occur in nature when nature is left unattended and unchanged) is all that exists, or do you believe in the possibility of the "supernatural" (forces outside of nature that have the ability to impose on nature things that temporarily disrupt "the natural")? Just to be clear, the possibility that a supernatural exists doesn't mean you necessarily believe it has imposed on nature.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY First, I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying in the first part of this. If you could rephrase it I would appreciate it. Second, if the unchangeable nature of something is based on preference, thats illogical. It is either unchangeable, in which case it would not matter what people agree on, or it is relative, in which case it is based on the agreement that it is the case.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY If it can be changed based on people's opinion, its not objective.
"improvement towards certain universally agreed preferences exists that is the unchanging element" If it is based on people's opinions, its not unchangeable, and therefore not objective. People's opinions can change, and if an unchangeable standard is based on something that can be changed, its not unchangeable.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, we use reason to discern the objective moral standard, we have the ability to change the objective standard? By objective I mean that there is no changing the standard. It is unchanging and final. Also, to clarify that I understand you correctly, you are arguing that the unchanging standard, comes from our changing social surroundings? If I'm misunderstanding please correct me.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY Furthermore, how have you discerned that there is no outside imposer? By science?
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY I disagree that we use reasoning to set objective standards; rather, we use reasoning to discern objective standards. The feeling of "oughtness" (or that one ought do something) when you do something good and the feeling of guilt when you do something bad. I believe these feelings are an appeal to an objective morality that is ingrained in humans by something outside of nature. That one instinctively knows that one ought follow a moral standard (running out of characters...)
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY What I meant by that was I believe that there is a set moral standard imposed by a force outside of nature, and my understanding was that you believed in a set standard that is a product of evolution. I don't understand how there can be an unchanging (objective) standard that humans agree to. If the standard is unchanging, it wouldn't matter wether or not humans agree with it. Alternatively, if humans choose what the standard is (one we might agree to), its not objective.
cmosser14 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY Alright. So we disagree on wether an objective morality (unchanging standard by which humans determine actions to be either right or wrong) exists because of an external force outside of nature or evolved within nature. Am I understanding you view correctly?
cmosser14 1 year ago