what logic is there in sealing the evidences for any number of years? There is something called freedom of information and it should be practised without any limitation. Reopen Robert F. Kennedy's case, that's the demand of every peace-loving citizen of the world.
@sidrahsiddiqui There is every logic. It depends on whose logic, OUR logic says, show us everything and let the truth out. On the other hand, THEIR logic is conceal it, destroy it as the FBI did to prevent the real truth in what happened comes out. The very fact that evidence is locked away in a case like this shows that there is a cover up of vital information.
@UNIQUE1982 Absolutely. There must be a citizen's initiative to demand the reopening of the cases of both the Kennedys as well as of Dr. King, and other assassinations, like that of Malcolm X too.
@sidrahsiddiqui Look how long these men have been dead, if nothing has been done to date it never will. JFK was murdered by a group of conspirators and that is fairly obvious if you look at any of the facts including eye witness information. I am in my late twenties and have just developed an interest in these assassinations most do not care and just consider it history, or are too stupid to consider the CIA and government are corrupt.
@UNIQUE1982 Yes, today's generation is not that interested in history, because their attention is diverted elsewhere. But those who are interested and for those to whom this all matters, they still demand a proper reinvestigation into all of these cases. The conspiracies are always very deep. Merely blaming the government or the CIA will not do. These are just institutions. We need to catch the evil culprits, those evil men who robbed us of good leaders, most of whom might be dead by now.
@sidrahsiddiqui Agreed. However I wasn't saying it was the CIA and Government only that there are corrupt elements and that people do not believe it. All of the people who had important information to share and were willing to talk died mysteriously at that time or were looked upon as strange or simply were not given the outlet to voice their opinion. Bottom line if you own the media you can control what information people get and therefore what they think.
@UNIQUE1982 Right. Just now the news came in that WikiLeaks is being closed down temporarily due to its financial blockade by US companies. Now, for these media that do tell the truth, they have such things as financial blockades. Assange is calling it unlawful. Who will support his voice now?
The thing is, today, we the people, need not look for the leaders to give us the rights. We need to demand them ourselves and take them.
While researching a documentary, Shane O'Sullivan discovered a news film of the Ambassador Hotel on the day Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. Bradley Ayers and other people who knew them, identified David Sanchez Morales, Gordon Campbell and George Joannides as being three men in the hotel that day. An article about this story appeared in The Guardian and on BBC Newsnight on 20th November, 2006
@uranorexic she didn't rely on her own memory--she used the testimony of others. It is interesting that she notes that she does not include Enyart in the diagram, but she does say the following about him on her website: "Jamie Scott Enyart, the photographer, who was located several feet behind and to the left of RFK. He said that he was just behind Paul Shrade, who fell backwards onto him when he (Shrade) was shot."
@uranorexic i don't understand the mindset of conspiracy folks. if anyone disagrees with them they are either ignorant or working for the man. Look I am open-minded about what happened in the RFK case. Case in point, I've exchanged emails with Mel Ayton in which I called him to task on inconsistencies in his version. The goal here should be not to blindly adhere to one theory or the other, but to look for the TRUTH. That's how I approach it. I'm sorry that you have problems with that.
@uranorexic yes, yes, we've all read the article on the Probe website. Personally, I'd love to see Harrison's photo, but I haven't. Where is it located on the web? Can you direct me to it? As for the CIA, that's laughable. If I have any connection with the CIA or any law enforcment agency it's because of files they have ON me LOL. I have never defended LAPD. They mishandled many things, just like they mishandled the OJ case. Do you think OJ didn't do it because the police bothched things there?
@uranorexic and to think that i actually commented to my wife just yesterday how pleasant it is to have a mature discussion with someone on this who doesn't resort to petty name-calling. Moldea cost himself much greater fame and much greater fortune by not pinning it on Cesar. He came to an objective conclusion, which should be everyone's goal. I'm ready to accept any explanation--Cesar, mind-control, or Sirhan alone. I'm just not convinced of Enyart's story, because logically it seems false.
@uranorexic Well I would say that the nearly 10 years he spent working on the case FOR THE DEFENSE tryiing to prove Sirhan's innocence probalby does give him credibility. Think about it--this guy was in a position to cash in big time if he had been able to pin it on Cesar. What did he gain by deciding that Sirhan did it? Rather than people blasting him for "changing his mind," he deserves credit for seeking the truth, whatever that might be. I wish more people approached the case that way.
@uranorexic But the diagram which Mangan herself drew of the pantry at the time of the shooting does not depict Enyart being present (see her website). As for Charac, he has always been a publicity seeking, self-promoting, fruit cake. The night of the shooting he was getting himself interviewed on live TV and passing trying to insinuate that he was somehow close to RFK's campaign team. Example "I was talking with Steve Smith about strategy when the shots rang out."
@uranorexic 1) I Enyart was in the ballroom during and after the speech, but never entered the pantry. Enyart 's friend admitted it to authorities. 2) NO photog took pics the exact moment of the shooting. No one would give a damn about the photos taken by Eppridge or Benson if Harrison had captured the shooting. 3) The civil case hinged on the fact that there was nother roll of film, not the not contents of the pics. 4) He entered after RFK, BACKED UP, but was in front of him on the table> HUH?
@uranorexic Bill Eppridge testifued under oath at the civil trial that the person in qustion on the table was Benson. Eppridge himself was less than 20 feet away from the table at the time of the shooting. Thus, the there is court testimony that it was NOT Enyart. In other words, Enyart says "it's me", and someone with no dog in the fight whatsover says "No, it's not you." The person from the defense team with whom I discussed the case is Dan Moldea. Can we agree to disagree on this?
@uranorexic With all due respect, no one other than Enyart who was in the pantry claims to have seen him in the pantry or on the table. At any rate, given Enyart's own words, he could not have "backed up" and jumped on the table. He was on the wrong side of RFK to have done so! As to why some evidence remained sealed, I cannot speak to that. Such is the stuff of criminal cases. I do know that a former member of Sirhan's defense team told me flat out he thinks Sirhan did it alone. Peace 2 you
@uranorexic As I recall several of the victims were taken directly to the hospital. The only individual that I recall receiving prolonged aid in the ballroom itself was Mrs. Evans. At least one additional victim was carried out through the ballroom by citizens who had come to his aid (Goldstein). Weisel and Schrade were taken to the hospital; ABC got a live feed of Schrade being removed on a stretcher from the pantry.
@uranorexic the evidence is overwhelming that Benson was the individual on the table, per the testimony of other photographers at the scene. Moreover, Enyart's story still doesn't add up. He says he followed RFK into the kitchen heard the shots fired and "backed up" on to the steam table." But if he followed him into the kitchen and "backed up" that would take him away from the steam tables, The $500,000 was for personal property lost. It says nothing about what was on thoes pics.
@uranorexic Other photogs who were in the pantry (e.g. Bill Eppridge) have said that Benson was the photog on the table. I have never denied that there was another roll of film by Enyart. However, no witness other than Enyart himself has ever claimed to have seen him in the pantry. Even Enyart's friend who was with him that night admits they did not go into the pantry. I suspect the pics he got may have had evidentiary value--perhpas pics of other vicitims being removed outside the pantry.
@uranorexic If you view a video on youtube under the title "First Person Harry Benson RFK Photographer / BBC World News" you will see several of the pics he took in the pantry that night, as well as his first hand account of what he did and saw, including jumping on the table. Also I believe New York magazine had a spread back in 2008 that featured Benson's pics (and words from Pet Hamill) from that night. He was definitely there that night.
@uranorexic Let me try to summarize my response to your 3 messages. First, there are plenty of pics by Harry Benson from that night--you can find them on his website. Second, RFK spun to his left after he was hit but upon hitting the ground rolled to his right on to his back--that is why he is still facing straight forward in the same direction in which he entered the pantry in every photo and film from that night. As for LAPD, they are idiots but that doesn't make Enyart's claim correct.
There are a number of pics by Benson available for review on the internet. You can go to his website, I've tried to put a link in to this mesage but I keep getting blocked by youtube. Just google his name and Kennedy and you'll find the pics. The pictures show that Benson was at a position high above RFK as he lay on the floor. There is a famous shot where Ethel is looking straight up at Benson as he stands on the table, screaming at him to stop taking pics.
@uranorexic He spun to his left, but not all the way around. If he had done a 180 the photos and film that show both RFK and vicitm Paul Schrade would have depicted them as facing in opposite directions--RFK towards the doors thru which he entered the pantry, and Schrade away from the doors. But that is not the case--both are facing away from the doors. Thus the steam tables were IN FRONT of RFK at all times, and the photog on the tables was IN FRONT as well. Enyart's story just doesn't add up.
Here's the problem. Enyart says he was behind Kennedy, following him into the pantry. Then he says he moved back (again, BACK) and jumped on a steam table. And yet the individual shown in the pantry on the steam table was IN FRONT of Kennedy. There is no way Enyart could be that person.
Benson, the world famous photographer testified that the picture of the guy with the camera on the steam table is of him. His account was corroborated by other photographers at the scene.
@slimered Yes, I've heard him(Benson) say that, as well as Life photographer Bill Eppridge. Enyart has gotten more than his 15 minutes of fame out of this, and the LAPD and California State government didn't help matters with the way they handled (or mishandled) whatever extra film might have existed from Enyart's camera. Still, taking Enyart at his own word his story is full of contradictions and logical inconsistencies.
I got news for Mr James Hahn, Nobody believes you, your lying and that makes you a liar. So lets talk about what you have done with your life, You betrayed America and Americans, Your are guitly of murder by association and you are too weak to stand up and speak the truth but your strong enough to gang up on an individual citizen, when you have the department behind you. You win the lowest life form on earth award, now choke on a bone please. I hope you did not have any kids.
An LA Times columnist asked why LA hired outside private counsel in Enyart's case when they have hundreds of city lawyers. This was the summer of 1996 when the Rampart Division, who covered up the CIA assassination of RFK, was dealing with Enyart's lawsuit. Months later, an LAPD detective fingered undercover agents in Rampart as murdering activist rapper Tupac Shakur. See evidence of CIA killing RFK in film The FBI War on Tupac Shakur and Black Leaders. FBI War on Tupac Excerpt II youtube
The man with the camera on top of the steam table located in the center of the kitchen pantry, which we see in the black and white photograph, is photographer Harry Benson... not 15-year-old James "Jamie" Scott Enyart. Not only is he the wrong person (Benson not Enyart) but he is standing on the wrong steam table (Enyart had claimed he was standing on a table at the west end of the pantry, not in the center of the pantry).
Comment removed
enyart3 4 months ago
what logic is there in sealing the evidences for any number of years? There is something called freedom of information and it should be practised without any limitation. Reopen Robert F. Kennedy's case, that's the demand of every peace-loving citizen of the world.
sidrahsiddiqui 5 months ago
@sidrahsiddiqui There is every logic. It depends on whose logic, OUR logic says, show us everything and let the truth out. On the other hand, THEIR logic is conceal it, destroy it as the FBI did to prevent the real truth in what happened comes out. The very fact that evidence is locked away in a case like this shows that there is a cover up of vital information.
UNIQUE1982 4 months ago
@UNIQUE1982 Absolutely. There must be a citizen's initiative to demand the reopening of the cases of both the Kennedys as well as of Dr. King, and other assassinations, like that of Malcolm X too.
sidrahsiddiqui 4 months ago
@sidrahsiddiqui Look how long these men have been dead, if nothing has been done to date it never will. JFK was murdered by a group of conspirators and that is fairly obvious if you look at any of the facts including eye witness information. I am in my late twenties and have just developed an interest in these assassinations most do not care and just consider it history, or are too stupid to consider the CIA and government are corrupt.
UNIQUE1982 4 months ago
@UNIQUE1982 Yes, today's generation is not that interested in history, because their attention is diverted elsewhere. But those who are interested and for those to whom this all matters, they still demand a proper reinvestigation into all of these cases. The conspiracies are always very deep. Merely blaming the government or the CIA will not do. These are just institutions. We need to catch the evil culprits, those evil men who robbed us of good leaders, most of whom might be dead by now.
sidrahsiddiqui 4 months ago
@sidrahsiddiqui Agreed. However I wasn't saying it was the CIA and Government only that there are corrupt elements and that people do not believe it. All of the people who had important information to share and were willing to talk died mysteriously at that time or were looked upon as strange or simply were not given the outlet to voice their opinion. Bottom line if you own the media you can control what information people get and therefore what they think.
UNIQUE1982 4 months ago
@UNIQUE1982 Right. Just now the news came in that WikiLeaks is being closed down temporarily due to its financial blockade by US companies. Now, for these media that do tell the truth, they have such things as financial blockades. Assange is calling it unlawful. Who will support his voice now?
The thing is, today, we the people, need not look for the leaders to give us the rights. We need to demand them ourselves and take them.
sidrahsiddiqui 4 months ago
@sidrahsiddiqui case re opened, key in: attorney Pepper.
thepixieful 2 months ago
While researching a documentary, Shane O'Sullivan discovered a news film of the Ambassador Hotel on the day Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. Bradley Ayers and other people who knew them, identified David Sanchez Morales, Gordon Campbell and George Joannides as being three men in the hotel that day. An article about this story appeared in The Guardian and on BBC Newsnight on 20th November, 2006
themeaningoflife38 5 months ago
Excellent. Thank you.
jfkcia 5 months ago
SUS AS FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
abighairywoman 8 months ago
@uranorexic she didn't rely on her own memory--she used the testimony of others. It is interesting that she notes that she does not include Enyart in the diagram, but she does say the following about him on her website: "Jamie Scott Enyart, the photographer, who was located several feet behind and to the left of RFK. He said that he was just behind Paul Shrade, who fell backwards onto him when he (Shrade) was shot."
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic i don't understand the mindset of conspiracy folks. if anyone disagrees with them they are either ignorant or working for the man. Look I am open-minded about what happened in the RFK case. Case in point, I've exchanged emails with Mel Ayton in which I called him to task on inconsistencies in his version. The goal here should be not to blindly adhere to one theory or the other, but to look for the TRUTH. That's how I approach it. I'm sorry that you have problems with that.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic yes, yes, we've all read the article on the Probe website. Personally, I'd love to see Harrison's photo, but I haven't. Where is it located on the web? Can you direct me to it? As for the CIA, that's laughable. If I have any connection with the CIA or any law enforcment agency it's because of files they have ON me LOL. I have never defended LAPD. They mishandled many things, just like they mishandled the OJ case. Do you think OJ didn't do it because the police bothched things there?
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic and to think that i actually commented to my wife just yesterday how pleasant it is to have a mature discussion with someone on this who doesn't resort to petty name-calling. Moldea cost himself much greater fame and much greater fortune by not pinning it on Cesar. He came to an objective conclusion, which should be everyone's goal. I'm ready to accept any explanation--Cesar, mind-control, or Sirhan alone. I'm just not convinced of Enyart's story, because logically it seems false.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic Well I would say that the nearly 10 years he spent working on the case FOR THE DEFENSE tryiing to prove Sirhan's innocence probalby does give him credibility. Think about it--this guy was in a position to cash in big time if he had been able to pin it on Cesar. What did he gain by deciding that Sirhan did it? Rather than people blasting him for "changing his mind," he deserves credit for seeking the truth, whatever that might be. I wish more people approached the case that way.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic Right Ironsides :)
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic But the diagram which Mangan herself drew of the pantry at the time of the shooting does not depict Enyart being present (see her website). As for Charac, he has always been a publicity seeking, self-promoting, fruit cake. The night of the shooting he was getting himself interviewed on live TV and passing trying to insinuate that he was somehow close to RFK's campaign team. Example "I was talking with Steve Smith about strategy when the shots rang out."
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic 1) I Enyart was in the ballroom during and after the speech, but never entered the pantry. Enyart 's friend admitted it to authorities. 2) NO photog took pics the exact moment of the shooting. No one would give a damn about the photos taken by Eppridge or Benson if Harrison had captured the shooting. 3) The civil case hinged on the fact that there was nother roll of film, not the not contents of the pics. 4) He entered after RFK, BACKED UP, but was in front of him on the table> HUH?
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic Bill Eppridge testifued under oath at the civil trial that the person in qustion on the table was Benson. Eppridge himself was less than 20 feet away from the table at the time of the shooting. Thus, the there is court testimony that it was NOT Enyart. In other words, Enyart says "it's me", and someone with no dog in the fight whatsover says "No, it's not you." The person from the defense team with whom I discussed the case is Dan Moldea. Can we agree to disagree on this?
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic With all due respect, no one other than Enyart who was in the pantry claims to have seen him in the pantry or on the table. At any rate, given Enyart's own words, he could not have "backed up" and jumped on the table. He was on the wrong side of RFK to have done so! As to why some evidence remained sealed, I cannot speak to that. Such is the stuff of criminal cases. I do know that a former member of Sirhan's defense team told me flat out he thinks Sirhan did it alone. Peace 2 you
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic As I recall several of the victims were taken directly to the hospital. The only individual that I recall receiving prolonged aid in the ballroom itself was Mrs. Evans. At least one additional victim was carried out through the ballroom by citizens who had come to his aid (Goldstein). Weisel and Schrade were taken to the hospital; ABC got a live feed of Schrade being removed on a stretcher from the pantry.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic the evidence is overwhelming that Benson was the individual on the table, per the testimony of other photographers at the scene. Moreover, Enyart's story still doesn't add up. He says he followed RFK into the kitchen heard the shots fired and "backed up" on to the steam table." But if he followed him into the kitchen and "backed up" that would take him away from the steam tables, The $500,000 was for personal property lost. It says nothing about what was on thoes pics.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic Other photogs who were in the pantry (e.g. Bill Eppridge) have said that Benson was the photog on the table. I have never denied that there was another roll of film by Enyart. However, no witness other than Enyart himself has ever claimed to have seen him in the pantry. Even Enyart's friend who was with him that night admits they did not go into the pantry. I suspect the pics he got may have had evidentiary value--perhpas pics of other vicitims being removed outside the pantry.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic If you view a video on youtube under the title "First Person Harry Benson RFK Photographer / BBC World News" you will see several of the pics he took in the pantry that night, as well as his first hand account of what he did and saw, including jumping on the table. Also I believe New York magazine had a spread back in 2008 that featured Benson's pics (and words from Pet Hamill) from that night. He was definitely there that night.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic Let me try to summarize my response to your 3 messages. First, there are plenty of pics by Harry Benson from that night--you can find them on his website. Second, RFK spun to his left after he was hit but upon hitting the ground rolled to his right on to his back--that is why he is still facing straight forward in the same direction in which he entered the pantry in every photo and film from that night. As for LAPD, they are idiots but that doesn't make Enyart's claim correct.
raelraven2 9 months ago
There are a number of pics by Benson available for review on the internet. You can go to his website, I've tried to put a link in to this mesage but I keep getting blocked by youtube. Just google his name and Kennedy and you'll find the pics. The pictures show that Benson was at a position high above RFK as he lay on the floor. There is a famous shot where Ethel is looking straight up at Benson as he stands on the table, screaming at him to stop taking pics.
raelraven2 9 months ago
@uranorexic He spun to his left, but not all the way around. If he had done a 180 the photos and film that show both RFK and vicitm Paul Schrade would have depicted them as facing in opposite directions--RFK towards the doors thru which he entered the pantry, and Schrade away from the doors. But that is not the case--both are facing away from the doors. Thus the steam tables were IN FRONT of RFK at all times, and the photog on the tables was IN FRONT as well. Enyart's story just doesn't add up.
raelraven2 9 months ago
Here's the problem. Enyart says he was behind Kennedy, following him into the pantry. Then he says he moved back (again, BACK) and jumped on a steam table. And yet the individual shown in the pantry on the steam table was IN FRONT of Kennedy. There is no way Enyart could be that person.
raelraven2 1 year ago
@raelraven2
Benson, the world famous photographer testified that the picture of the guy with the camera on the steam table is of him. His account was corroborated by other photographers at the scene.
slimered 10 months ago
@slimered Yes, I've heard him(Benson) say that, as well as Life photographer Bill Eppridge. Enyart has gotten more than his 15 minutes of fame out of this, and the LAPD and California State government didn't help matters with the way they handled (or mishandled) whatever extra film might have existed from Enyart's camera. Still, taking Enyart at his own word his story is full of contradictions and logical inconsistencies.
raelraven2 10 months ago
I got news for Mr James Hahn, Nobody believes you, your lying and that makes you a liar. So lets talk about what you have done with your life, You betrayed America and Americans, Your are guitly of murder by association and you are too weak to stand up and speak the truth but your strong enough to gang up on an individual citizen, when you have the department behind you. You win the lowest life form on earth award, now choke on a bone please. I hope you did not have any kids.
daveusaz1218 1 year ago
An LA Times columnist asked why LA hired outside private counsel in Enyart's case when they have hundreds of city lawyers. This was the summer of 1996 when the Rampart Division, who covered up the CIA assassination of RFK, was dealing with Enyart's lawsuit. Months later, an LAPD detective fingered undercover agents in Rampart as murdering activist rapper Tupac Shakur. See evidence of CIA killing RFK in film The FBI War on Tupac Shakur and Black Leaders. FBI War on Tupac Excerpt II youtube
progressiveleftpress 1 year ago
The man with the camera on top of the steam table located in the center of the kitchen pantry, which we see in the black and white photograph, is photographer Harry Benson... not 15-year-old James "Jamie" Scott Enyart. Not only is he the wrong person (Benson not Enyart) but he is standing on the wrong steam table (Enyart had claimed he was standing on a table at the west end of the pantry, not in the center of the pantry).
bensonNOTenyart 3 years ago 2