RRS vs. Kirk Cameron Nightline part three (1/2) Response 001

[Vodkainjected]

Your argument works on the premise that the Christian god exists. Since atheists don't believe in your god, you need to first prove that he exists before arguing that we need to repent for original sin. Lol somehow I doubt I'm the first to point this out..

[soundendurance]

@Vodkainjected no need to repent of original sin. While we were sinners Christ died for us. Therefor ALL will be raised from the dead regardless of their belief. BUT not all are raised unto eternal life. ALL are raised unto judgment. How shall we escape the judgment to come? By partaking of His divine nature through repentance and faith in Christ. Being born again, receiving the free gift of His Holy Spirit . There is no escaping death. There is no escaping the resurrection unto judgment.

[Vodkainjected]

@soundendurance wait...god had a son? ..and the son was killed and brought back to life and christians call that a sacrifice? You just missed my point completely, I don't care about original sin, I don't believe in original sin. When you make these claims you bear a *burden of proof*, proof which Christians have repetitively failed to provide.

[soundendurance]

@Vodkainjected You do not believe in original sin then you must believe you will not taste death? - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. - 1Co 15:22 all shade be made alive (raised from the dead) unto judgment.

The burden of proof is on you. You must show where man has not tasted death.

[Vodkainjected]

@soundendurance "You do not believe in original sin then you must believe you will not taste death?"- why? Non-religious people accept mortality. Again you've missed my point. Before you use bible passages to support ideas/claims, you need to prove that the bible is a reliable source of information and we know that it isn't, eg. there has never been a flood that covered the entire earth.

[soundendurance]

@Vodkainjected well said...if scripture is broken then you are correct and we are all dead in our sins....BUT if science is broken then Christ Jesus is the Messiah scripture has revealed and we all shall be raised unto judgment...each individual will give an account for the things done in their body to their Creator. Those having received His divine nature, having His Holy Spirit, shall be judged righteous and enter eternal life. Mortality is the curse of sin, Jesus redeemed us from this curse.

[soundendurance]

What if and individual lived 100 years without ever committing bad dees, what if they lived 1000 years, 10,000, a million BUT then, at one moment mowed down an entire family...This somewhat etream example, thought not really for all "sin" or ERROR leads to death but will pass on further explanation at this time. BUT common sense tells us that would not be good. Therefor Jesus said YOU MUSE be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect to inherit eternal life...It makes perfect sense.

[mfaries42]

.....Geezzz dude... the issue is that dispite all these redundant good deeds and material that Atheists contribute in the name of good, Christians and Jesus want you to believe that unless you accept dogma you are going to hell...

its like you are totally missing the point..

[soundendurance]

ok...so, you have an individual who does much "good". No one, at least not me nor Jesus takes away from those good gifts given by that person. However, that person is not "good" one hundred percent of the time. Are they? I don't believe so, their not perfect. Now, would you want imperfection for eternity? If an individual is perfect 99.9% but in that .1% murders someone...what then?

[mfaries42]

I don't know if your hypothetical person is good or not.. you are assuming that they aren't 100% good. And you also have to define what you standard is for "good" behavior.

I mean according to the Bible Jesus got pissed at the temple and took to beating those he thought were in the wrong with a flog... Is that good?

I'm just saying that your arguments fall apart when they are analyzed scientifically.

None of us should assume things are true when we can not properly verify them.

[soundendurance]

You don't know what good is?...really...hmmm...let someone steal from you, or...let your wife cheat on you...or let someone lie to you, you know, about something important like, after working for me for 30 days you will be paid, but they never do.

You want to pretend good is relative...go ahead. But in reality all of us know what good is.

Now...get mad at the one who stole, lied, cheated...isn't that good?

[mfaries42]

What?! no dude, i'm just saying that there are degrees of good until good turns into bad. What some people think is bad can also be thought to be good to someone else.

Good intentions can often lead to evil deeds.. And points of view.

[soundendurance]

you mentioned I needed to define what my standard for good is...Our creator has, he has given us what is good as found in the law of Moses, the prophets, the book of Psalms, & scripture in context.

To your point....Jesus cleansing the temple was not an evil deed. Just as a doctor cutting out cancer from a patient is not an evil deed. It's ok to be angry about evil just don't do evil while angry.

Are we to judge deeds or is God? Can we not make right judgments by the word of God.

[mfaries42]

What i'm saying is that in the story Jesus took to beating ppl ... Why couldn't he have gone about it in a non violent way?

And Yes! I can judge the deeds of any one i want too especially if it involves harming someone.

I'm not going to argue this any further. I can't think rationally for you dude.. one of these days maybe you'll figure out that you've been brainwashed by religion.

It's ok... i was too.

[mfaries42]

First of all, when you said ,"...words that Jesus Christ spoke himself." you are already out of order bc you can't verify that these are actually Jesus' words bc the gospels were written years after his death...

try again

[soundendurance]

We believe the US Constitution was written by our founding fathers...we have their signatures on it, though not all penned it. We accept their signatures because their signing was witnessed by more than one person. So it is with the gospel accounts...The gospels are a biography/autobiography of the life of Jesus. The Spirit of God is the author and we have Christs signature in that He is risen from the dead and seen by a latter witness, Paul, among others who confirms the gospel accounts.

[mfaries42]

How can a spirit of anything be an author...? A person is an author.. If i were to write a book while i was happy, sad or inspired,, my emotion or inspiration is not the author.. I am.

And in reality someones signature can be faked...whether or not the Constitution was signed by our founding fathers is really tough to prove.. but it can at least be proven

Can you prove that Jesus actually was real and did all those things w/o citing the Bible for your info? No

[soundendurance]

God is a person...for the word of God was made flesh. Jesus is that word, he is God.

Definitions of author on the Web: * writer: writes * generator: someone who originates or causes or initiates something;

As for the reality of Jesus. The bible is a compilation of various ancient writings not a single book "authored" by one individual. Each gospel account was penned by different individuals.

The Spirit of God is the originator of scripture making Him the author though penned by men.

[mfaries42]

Calling God a person limits him to our level instead of the omnipotent being that you and lots of misled Christians believe he is.

I know you don't want to admit that your beliefs are wrong.. No one really does.. but you arguments would not hold up in a court of law at all..

Also, what do you think about people that hurt other people in the name of God? Would you kill someone if you believed God told you too? Would that make you any less of a murder if you actually did it?

[soundendurance]

Question 1: There is one eternal God. Three persons, one God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit often referred to as the trinity which simply means three in one. Do I comprehend it...No, but scripture teaches this and Jesus confirmed the scriptures.

I can tell you all about the Grand Canyon. Using words I may be able to paint of vivid picture of it for you. Having been there myself, I can tell you no picture will do it justice. Though one can not comprehend its majesty does not make it untrue.

[soundendurance]

Question 2: these are not my beliefs but reveled truths which I believe. They are reveled in Christ and reflected to us in what we call the bible. The difference is this...if it were my belief you or anyone would have to come to me to figure it out. As it is a reveled truth in the person of Jesus Christ, you or anyone can go to that person, ask Him for help and gain understanding outside of me. You can look at His reflection in what we today call the bible and see the truth yourself.

[soundendurance]

Question 3: There are various dispositions within the bible. That is, at certain times God operated in certain ways. Not that His character or essence were different but He used different methods.

As for hurting people in the name of God. It is not up to me to hurt people. All will be raised from the dead bodily to face the Judge of all judges and give an account. Until then, God has given us governments to execute wrath against unrighteousness. If the Government fails we suffer until death.

[mfaries42]

You didn't answer the question.. If you thought you heard God tell you to kill someone ..... would you do it?

....i'm sure you have the same blind faith in your government too huh?

Enjoy your delusions bro..

[soundendurance]

It's not blind faith...we have the law of God and God's prophets...we have Jesus who is the fulfillment of both the law and prophets.

The "bible" tells us to test the spirits...so if a "spirit" whom I thought was God, told me to kill someone I would use the word of God, which we call the bible, to test that spirit and see if it be true.

Jesus did not kill anyone...He did not start a revolution...or a new government. He paid for the sin of the whole world that all may be raised from the dead.

[mfaries42]

Yeah you're totally wrong.. .... Cept for the Jesus didn't kill anyone thing.. thats bc people get to kill in his name as if its justified here in reality to do so...

People like you are like the just like Muslim jihadist that strap a bomb on there chest, believing what they are doing is "good" and go kill a bunch of innocent ppl for the reward promised by "God"

You are thinking in the same dangerous ways..

Blind Faith is dangerous and you seem to be infected.

[mfaries42]

I don't want to offend you man, but you are just awful at this stuff... try calling that Atheist Movement hotline and see if you can try talking your crap out to them.. They are experts at setting confused ppl like you straight.

I don't even really think you fully know what your talkin about anyway..

[soundendurance]

No offense taken...I appreciate the feedback. There are many things I have not done well in life but I figured I might as well be awful at this then keep my mouth shut and let my brothers of humanity continue in their error when the truth has been set before us.

My point is you don't need me...that's good considering I'm awful at this. But listen...for your own self, read on...give yourself a chance to see who Jesus is. Set your mind to learn the bible. If you do one thing in life, do that.

[mfaries42]

You know, i would have liked to have learned more about Jesus... only the fact is he's only mentioned in the bible a hand full of times and the rest of is ppl like you take for truth when in actuality, what you are reading is 3rd and forth hand accounts of his life written years and years after his death..

This is where i gotta ask you, Do you believe everything you read or see? You are accepting this faith based on very very flimsy evidence.

[mfaries42]

So your imaginary God, came to earth as a man only to be sacrificed on the cross to himself?....... (Because i assume you believe that Jesus was God albeit in human form.. but still God, right)...

Non of it makes sense dude.. Go to school and learn some real history... Take a World Civ class and some philosophy...

[soundendurance]

God is no longer winking at our ignorance. He will use the very same arguments against us. He will say to us, we spent our time, which he gave to us, pursing World Civ, philosophy, arts, science while all the time His truth was before us in the person of Jesus Christ mirrored to us in His word we call the bible.

Listen, I'm not saying learning other things are bad...but I am saying give yourself a chance to learn for yourself what the bible really say has to say. You must set your mind to learn

[soundendurance]

Final thought...we spend a lot of time learning the English language, math and other such items. Yet, when it comes to the bible we expect to have a five minute conversation and call it done. I mean what other subject do we treat like that.

Go through the bible with Dr. J Vernon McGee

thruthebible org

check out his FREE MP3 Download of 5-Year Series

It's on us...everyone of us will stand before our Creator and give an account. Let's settle ours now by learning who Jesus is.

Be blessed

[mfaries42]

The bible gives a small literary account of Jesus,.,. after that, what ever you "know and believe" about that man is pure speculation based on anecdotal evidence..

I believed in Santa Claus just as much as i did God when i was a kid.. until my parents came clean and told me it was a lie. Its the same thing with God... its ancient bronze age superstition that has survived bc of blind faith...

Other than what the bible cites, there is just no proof.

[mfaries42]

At least Atheists are willing to admit that "We dont know...yet" when there is lack of evidence for the proof of something.. like what caused the big bang..

Christians and religious ppl are the ones that stop thinking when it gets too complicated and say, "Oh it must be God" when they need a quick answer....

Oh, this person must me cursed or Oh God made an earthquake bc he was angry.....lightning bolts come from Zeus.. the list goes on..

Science gives us the real reasons for all this.

[soundendurance]

You are right in that the bible is not a scientific manual. It is a revelation of how our Creator has chosen to save man kind from their sin.

If this life was all there was then I would be a fool. It would be better to purse pleasure or the origins of life hoping to discover a fountain of youth.

How did the Creator create something out of nothing....I do not know...but I know this...all are born and all will die. That is a scientific fact. And because of Jesus all will be raised unto judgment.

[mfaries42]

Uhh, yes I do think you have proven yourself to be a fool bc religion has successfully fooled you into believing something that there is no reason to believe in at all.

How convent it is that we should be judged and God not be. The character of God as laid out for us in the Bible is a monster.  What kind of God allows his children to kill each other over who has the right faith?

What kind of Father would allow his own child to be a sacrifice to HIMSELF? A MONSTER! It isn't real

[soundendurance]

You know I heard it said of a man who was in desperate need of a hair cut. The local barber was asked why he did not cut that mans hair. Know what this barber said...He said he did not cut his hair because the man never came to him for a hair cut...The reason there is sin in the world is because man refuses to come to God...man refuses to become a partaker of His divine nature through Jesus Christ.

what kind of man would reject the goodness of God and kill his fellow man. That is the question.

[mfaries42]

I'll tell you what type.. the type of man that sees the belief in this God of yours as wrong.

I think its really bad that you believe that acting in the name of belief over fact is a good thing.

What you are saying is that the racism, bigotry, slavery, sexism, genocide, infanticide, etc... is ALLLLLL ok bc God said so...

Its doesn't matter how God behaves only that we gotta obey him without question....

that not only makes you a fool but also a robot..

[soundendurance]

Firstly some would say St. Nicholas is Santa Claus. So, the idea he promoted, inspired by Jesus Christ, lives on through others who also choose to give to the poor...in our culture we have commercialized his giving.

Second. Jesus walked among us in a specific period of time. What we do know of Him proves Him to be the Messiah promised by God...the one who shall save His people from their sin. He proved to be this when He rose bodily from the dead and was seen by over 500 individuals.

[mfaries42]

yeah I've read this story too and I don't buy it..

Do you know why there are no real miracles all the time like there were in the Bible? Because now we can prove things scientifically with reason and logic so that cheap con artists can't get away with fooling the masses of people that want there to be more to reality than what they perceive.

[soundendurance]

com'on...you're telling me the Jewish leaders of Jesus day who helped put him to death were fooled by him? Those religious leaders said he was possessed by a devil, that is how he was able to do his miracles. They did not deny the miracles.

The miracles Jesus performed were signs (what does a sign do but point) pointing to Him as the savior of the whole world. His enemies found no sin, no guile nor deceit in Him.

Not even Jesus greatest enemies would nor could not deny the miracles he did.

[mfaries42]

First of all You are again relying on anecdotal evidence from scripture as evidence... also you are not citing your material either..

But according to the Bible was Jesus not questioned during a trial before Pilot to prove himself.?? couldn't he have done something to prove he was the Messiah?

I think the "Son of God" "God" "the Trinity" Whatever.. could have come up w a better plan.

The belief in god is a huge sham.... Its easy to see once to stop fooling yourself.

[soundendurance]

Prove Himself..He did...He came to die for your sin and mine and the sin of the whole world. Was raised from the dead so that each man in his own order shall also be bodily raised to face judgment.

Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth...

What is the truth...that God so loved the world He gave...John 3:16

[mfaries42]

No, what you are telling me is that you believe God doesn't want us to learn the nature of reality around us if it doesn't pertain to him...

I have set my mind to learn... thats why I'm a student in a University and no longer a robot church goer..

I'm not willing to turn off my brain and say, "Oh God did it" when i can't figure something out.

Study the historical effects of Christianity on other culture sometime... is genocide for God good?

Religion impedes the advancement of culture.

[soundendurance]

I don't think I'm saying that.

What I am saying is the most important thing is discovering what our Creator has done to save us from our sin as this life is temporal. And in that discovery you will learn the truth which will make you free.

Then when you face Jesus on judgment day you will stand acquitted of all charges because you partook of His divine nature through faith in Him.

Faith that in Jesus shedding his blood tasted death for everyman and rose from the dead for our justification.

[soundendurance]

Christianity is not the same as Christendom. Jesus himself said many will come in my name and shall deceive many.

I'm not talking religion...our Creator hates religion. Religion defined is anything devoid of God's presence. The Jews did not have a religion when they were commanded to have a tabernacle because the presence of God was with them. It only became a religion when the presence of God left the temple.

A follower of Christ becomes His tabernacle and he indwells them by His Spirit.

[mfaries42]

Well listen, i can't make you think rationally.. I'm thinking that these ridiculous beliefs are drilled into your mind pretty good. You probably don't have much of a real education out of high school either so...

Getting you to think rationally seems to be a lost cause..

just don't go oppressing or killing people in the name of God just bc they don't share your beliefs like the other deluded religious extremists that preceded you.

[soundendurance]

No worries...But listen, our U.S. courts for the most part uphold eye witness testimony. A careful study of this points to the fact when there are problems its often when courts allow a single E.W.

Our Creator states there must be at least 2 or 3 E.W. to bring a charge. Now if all E.W. lied, that would be a conspiracy. Not much you can do there.

Courts allow it. We have more than 2 E.W. accounts of Jesus of Nazareth living. Do you have any E.W. accounts that Jesus did not live at that time.

[mfaries42]

Call your EW to the stand right now...lets ask them some questions.. oh, you can't do that? Why?

Because they don't exist. All you are going from is what is written down in a book hat can't be verified as fact.

How about this, if your neighbors came to you claiming that a UFO has landed in there yard and when you got there, there was nothing to see... would you still believe your neighbor? No matter how much you may want to, with out the proper evidence you'd be a fool to believe it.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 ? ...Evidence, your living in it. I can see it all around me. It's called matter...for creation itself speaks of a Creator.

What did this neighbor see...a ufo is nothing more then an unidentified flying object. They most probably did see that for they can not identify what they saw.

You deny that Jesus lived...Yet the EW accounts identify what they saw and heard...Jesus is not a unidentified object.

[mfaries42]

The fact that the universe has matter, space and we are able to live among it does not prove that it was created by what you interpret as a God.. just bc the Bible says "God" is the creator does not mean that that is true in reality.

As for my ufo metaphor, you are again missing the point.. which is you shouldn't believe everything you hear or read or witness with out evidence to back up the claim.

And i did not deny that Jesus lived.. only that their is No evidence other than stories

[mfaries42]

Jesus may have lived and he may have been everything the Bible says he was... but Atheists believe that it is unwise to base faith and belief on personal testimony, anecdotal accounts, stories, prophecies, fortune telling, mystic healing, with out being able to demonstrate and prove it scientifically for everyone to see.

It is no coincidence that the biblical miracles of ancient times do not happen today.. bc people aren't as easily fooled as they were in the day... at least most of us aren't.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 ...So George Washington may or may not have lived. We don't know because there is no evidence other than stories and maybe a few relics that could or could not have been used by him. over time, even those relics, which may or may not have been his, will most probably disappear.

This man Jesus, who may or may not have lived, at least according to you, may or may not have said, according to John who may or may not have lived, the following -

who may or may not have lived

[soundendurance]

Then saith he (Jesus) to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

[soundendurance]

@soundendurance And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Joh 20:27-31

Our creator has spoken to us through creation. He has spoken to us through his prophets, and in these last days he has spoken to us through His son Jesus.

[mfaries42]

I believe religion caters to the simple minded and corrupts our culture by telling ppl to stop looking for truth when the simple answers for reality are not available..

this helps to control the masses of ppl by telling them an awful fate awaits them if they don't behave.. thats why the analogy of the poor and ignorant being sheep works so well in the Bible....

[mfaries42]

Yup, anecdotal... a story written by someone who wasn't there and then translated years later after that by people that were bias to there religion...

Quote from the bible all you want.. but the Bible itself is unreliable as evidence for your case..

[mfaries42]

Exactly,, only we have evidence of GW's existence and a few of his works which were documented while he was alive by ppl that were there...

unlike your example concerning Jesus who may or may not have lived.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 hunanity is already in an awful mess...this is proven scientifically...ALL will die.

The natural byproduct of error is death. Our creator did not create death, it's the curse of living outside of truth which is His word. His word is true because He is the only one able to fulfill it perfectly 100% of the time.

What is scarier to me...is living in eternity with individuals who do not walk in truth....

[soundendurance]

@soundendurance I like God's word...do not steal, kill, lie, cheat, etc...these are good things. But these are issues of the heart...Our creator has offered to change individual's desires, for we do what we want to anyway. Therefor, individuals must be born again, they must partake of our Creators divine nature through Christ Jesus for He is truth...This is a gift from God, His gift is the WANT TO...He then also gives us the power to accomplish those desires.

[soundendurance]

@soundendurance Doing good deeds is good. Most would agree, Jesus agrees with that as well. Jesus never took away from the good an individual did. But Jesus also said to inherit eternal life you must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Think of it...how is the eternal creator perfect. He has always been perfect...the is no begining point for His perfection.

How can man be perfect like that...it is impossible.

[soundendurance]

But why is this important. Think...put the notion of good deeds and perfection under the microscope of common sense and most will agree good deeds are not enough perfection is. Again, since we are eternal creatures, which we are, though these bodies will die, were are getting new ones because Jesus conquered death, hell, the grave. So we shall live forever, but where...Now, if good deeds are enough without the absense of bad deeds that would not make sense.

[soundendurance]

What if and individual lived 100 years without ever committing bad dees, what if they lived 1000 years, 10,000, a million BUT then, at one moment mowed down an entire family...This somewhat etream example, thought not really for all "sin" or ERROR leads to death but will pass on further explaination at this time. BUT common sense tells us that would not be good. Therefor Jesus said YOU MUST be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect to inherit eternal life...It makes perfect sense.

[mfaries42]

Where in the Bible did Jesus ever say what you are asserting about being perfect like God....? I think you are misrepresenting scripture and need to stop it...

Error or sin does not lead to death.. in fact if we didn't make errors, we would never learn from them.. This is the problem with Christianity, wake up and stop being so self righteous as if you know what God wants bc you don't.. Go to school and take a science and history class... let me know when reality calls..

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance I really wish you would take a look at the Atheist Experience vid clips on Youtube

They make a ton of sense and would open your eyes to the faults in your arguments .

Just type in Atheist Experience in the search engine and pick a vid that you think is relevant to our conversation and see what you think..

[mfaries42]

If you like God's word so much why are you only seeing the good things and not the bad things in it? Like the parts were its ok to have slaves, ok to commit murder and genocide.....

You seem to be pretty far out there even for a Christian... in fact, I know a few Christians that would scratch their heads in regard to your opinions...

Your head is so far up Gods ass that you can't think logically which is my main fear when it comes to religion infecting the minds of our society..

[mfaries42]

Yes all will die because that is natural way of things on this planet.. it happens to everything that is alive... If we were designed by God wouldn't the design also include dying?

If God is real, I don't believe he is perfect.. b/c a perfect God would not create imperfect life and then wipe it out and start again over and over like we see in the fossil record..

I totally agree that living w ppl who are ignorant of truth is scary. Religion hinders reason and logic.. thats very dangerous.

[soundendurance]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven...Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We have to learn truth because mankind, the first Adam, forsook it in the beginning.

[soundendurance]

In the begining God has given us his word, spoken to the first Adam.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen 3:6 ...and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

[soundendurance]

Adam hearkend unto the voice of satan (Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:) which was planted into Eve, therefor he did not abide in the truth

Joh 8:44 (Jesus said to those who abide not in the truth) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[soundendurance]

How does one learn truth...Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The reflection of Christ is found in the bible. God is Spirit who manifested Himself in the flesh of Jesus. Jesus is one, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father. He is on business inteceeding for all those who beleive upon Him...Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[soundendurance]

We learn that by this Jesus..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[soundendurance]

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,"...Heb 10:10-19

[soundendurance]

Seeing this Jesus is away on business, and our ability to physciall see Him at this time is not unlike our ability to physcially see the ruler of any nation on this earth. Yet, we can see his relection in the bible as we are told

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

[mfaries42]

Away on business? The savior of humanity is "away on business"? How convenient for him..

You have yet to prove anything to me just as religion can't actually prove the existence of that which they believe..

I see no reason to follow these teaching anymore than the other bogus religions out there that all claim to be the right way..

Moral teaching are not exclusive to Christian faith.. in fact, I think Christianity is immoral. Scaring ppl into believing is NOT moral.

[soundendurance]

if this life was all there was then one could deduce our Creator was cruel and unjust...But reconciling the Old Testament is straight forward. The heavenly creator owns everything...this is His creation. He told the inhabitance of the land He gave to His chosen people to leave, they refused, they died. Simple...all error leads to death, they should have heeded to the word of God.

[soundendurance]

God is sovereign...he can make individuals with what ever gifting he so chooses. He can give nations whichever land he chooses. Who are we to grumble against the Creator because He made me such and such a way and gave me such and such a gift.

If having a particular patch of land was the end all, that would be one thing but it is not. For the Creator is preparing a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness. Therefor this life is but a vapor...we are here today and gone tomorrow.

[soundendurance]

Best to partake of His divine nature while it is still called today for those inhabitance who refuse the Word of God shall be destroyed for their is no life outside of God's word.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

[soundendurance]

Our Creator is not desiring to crush humanity and dash them in pieces for 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But those that shall perish, perish 2Th 2:10...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[mfaries42]

No, your right, He wants to hide in the trenches away from sight and send those that don't believe in his existence to Hell instead of guiding all of humanity himself.

Have fun with your religion, bigotry and delusions.. I'm sure you'll give God the credit for all your accomplishments while the church drains your bank account to fuel the biggest lie machine in history

while telling you that you're a good little boy for doing so...

[mfaries42]

whatever delusion helps you sleep at night.... Tell me, who is more favored to God.. the devote Muslim  or the devote Christian? Both believe that they are serving and worshiping the right God.. both believes the other is wrong.. God is written into both sides holy books.. where is God to set one side straight?

and if it turned out that your side was wrong, how would you feel and what would you do?

I have a feeling you'd be in denial of that reality as you are to this one...

[mfaries42]

Chosen people? why does God have to choose who is his favorite? If God is sooo great and all powerful, why are there schisms in religion? Couldn't God present himself to everyone like he supposedly did to Moses so there would be no doubt?

If your god is real he is a coward for hiding himself. I don't like his moral character as laid out in the bible or his ethics.. He tells us to forgive others yet condemns non believers to Hell.. Well thats his own damn fault!!!!!

[soundendurance]

You bring up many good points...The questions you ask are logical and bring to light the difficulty of reconciling what we see happening around us with the truth of a Supreme Being who his Love.

But in that word Love there is justice and mercy to ALL...NOT some, not one, BUT all. Because the love of God is directed to ALL, we see what appears to be imbalances in this life. Yet God corrected those apparent imbalances when he sent his Son to pay the moral and ethical "sin" debts owed by ALL men.

[soundendurance]

God did not create evil, the beings God created choose evil in that they did not abide in the truth of His word.

True, God did not have to create beings of FREE WILL. But He did.

God provided these human-beings with a way out from the consequence of ERROR "death". But He did it in LOVE which includes JUSTICE and MERCY for ALL.

For God to be JUST and YET extend MERCY to ALL...He needed a substitute, one who is worthy of eternal life but willing to pay the "sin" debt "death" for ALL.

[soundendurance]

God sent his Son Jesus to pay that debt. Jesus tasted death for every man satisfying God's justice system enabling Him to extend mercy to whosoever will believe.

If one man takes another man's life and the law enabled that man to go free because it wanted to be merciful, that would be good for that man but there would be no justice to the man who was murdered or his family.

Further, if the murderer was freed and murdered again, then the mercy extended to him was in vain.

[soundendurance]

God's redemptive plan covers this in that the payment for the murdering man is covered in Jesus's death. When the members who suffered loss look for justice, and they should, they look to the cross and see that murderer dead in Christ.

And the mercy extended to that man...is just and not in vain. For when any man believes he partakes of God's divine nature, he is born again. That man's desires become that of the nature of God in which there is no murder.

[soundendurance]

Religion is poison, Jesus is a person...big difference. I follow Jesus...First, there is enough evidence for me to believe he existed. Next, after viewing the ancient writings from various authors which have been compiled into what we call the bible I am convinced of their eye witness testimony.

The bible points to the perfection of Jesus. In that perfection we see one who is worthy of eternal life. Jesus is perfect, flawless, no moral or ethical faults found in Him.

[soundendurance]

When an individual see's the perfection of Christ, they see one worthy of eternal life. When they see His death, they see God's Justice. When they believe unto partaking of His divine nature they receive the very nature of God and experience His GRACE.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. - Rom 5:9-10

[mfaries42]

Oh so there is evidence to prove the existence of Jesus Christ.... what evidence would that be? The writers of the NT were NOT eye witnesses.. you need to research your facts..

And again.. if the writings of the Bible are what you base your belief that Jesus was a perfect being.... I could NOT disagree with you more. I think are seeing only what you've been indoctrinated to see. Why don't you try researching the brutality spawned by religion like the Crusades and Witch Trails etc....

[soundendurance]

Authors of the New Testament

Matthew by Matthew an apostle an eye witness (E.W.)

Mark by John Mark disciple and interpreter of Peter an (E.W.)

Luke by Luke does not claim to be an E.W.

John by John an apostle an E.W.

Acts by Luke does not claim to be an E.W.

[soundendurance]

Romans by Paul an apostle an eye witness (E.W.) 1-2 Corinthians by Paul an apostle an E.W. Galatians by Paul an apostle an E.W. Ephesians by Paul an apostle an E.W. Philippians by Paul an apostle an E.W. Colossians by Paul an apostle an E.W. 1-2 Thessalonians by Paul an apostle an E.W. 1-2 Timothy by Paul an apostle an E.W. Titus by Paul an apostle an E.W. Philemon by Paul an apostle an E.W. Hebrews by Paul an apostle an E.W.

[soundendurance]

James by Jameshalf-brother of Jesus an E.W.

1-2 Peter by Peter an apostle an E.W.

1-3 John by John an apostle an E.W.

Jude by Jude half-brother of Jesus an E.W.

Revelation by John an apostle an E.W.

[soundendurance]

Religion is deadly. Jesus said Mat 7:15 But beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inside they are plundering wolves. and Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ. And they will cause many to be led astray.

You have the word of God, the bible, which is a reflection of Christ. 1Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

[mfaries42]

Why don't you look Paul up on Wikipedia and see what his creditability is as an eye witness.. It is now widely considered that about half of the writings attributed to Paul, may have been written by someone else because of Paul's contradictions with his own teachings

His personal testimony of encountering Jesus on the road doesn't mean any of it actually happened. Again.. there's no proof

[mfaries42]

So that makes it ok for Christians to get away with murder huh? If this life is only a stepping stone to the next "better" life with God... then why don't you kill yourself? Not that i'm recommending you actually doing that at all.. but logically why not? Oh, bc thatd be suicide and thats a sin... right...

Considering that Jesus supposedly knew he was to be sacrificed, wouldn't going thru with it be a form of suicide?

[soundendurance]

again...who says it is O.K. for Christians to get away with murder? Not Jesus of scripture (bible). You want to point to the God of the Old Testament as being brutal and cruel...that seems hypocritical.

Do you live in a home...let someone take it...will you do nothing. Then, if you take action they fight against you, what then. God gave land to Israel, He gave the people wrongfully occupying that land plenty of time to leave...Therefor those who refused to leave became murdering thieves.

[mfaries42]

You don't really seem to have a grasp on things like science and reason, what valid evidence is, actual history vs biblical history, or the perspective of others outside your own culture.. its really no wonder why you stick with religion... with religion, knowledge stops with, "oh, God did it" and we shouldn't look beyond superstition for the truth of reality.

Maybe there is a GOD out there.. all i'm saying is No One has proved it.. so why should you expect anyone to believe what can't be proven

[mfaries42]

It seems to me that by your argument the God is held to the some kind of debt system of sin? Why would God need to send anyone to cover our debt? Why couldn't he just cover it himself.. I mean it's God right? You seem to know it all but i'm not seeing any real answers.. outside of the Bible, you can not prove the existence of God. I see no reason to put faith into something that can't be proven.

bc it's a SHAM!!! A method of controlling a society. Wake up already

[soundendurance]

God has proved Himself...I am not trying to prove His existence. I am declaring the good news that ALL men every where shall be bodily raised from the dead because Jesus Christ has conquered death, hell, and the grave.

With out Jesus there would be no resurrection of the dead.

To avoid facing a second death, I proclaim the truth that God freely gives to every man who asks the Spirit of Christ enabling that man to become a partaker of His divine nature. And in that is eternal life.

[mfaries42]

Yeah, then why don't you take a trip to Haiti and explain it to them how God loves them.. give up all your earthly possessions to them since you don't need them anymore... i'm sure they could use em.. since your going to heaven and all...Explain to them that their suffering isn't really a big deal bc God loves them and make it ALL better and that is really apart of some cosmic plan that tons of people just died to prove....

your faith makes you blind to reality!!! again, wake up

[mfaries42]

If God was so loving, why does he use the THREAT of hell on us? I mean, there is punishment for doing wrong and then there is Hell for Eternity... why couldn't God come up with a better solution if he's all full of Love like you say? a 4th grader has better morals and ethics than God does.

[mfaries42]

How can you say that God created everything with out including evil in the mix? All I'm seeing in your argument for God are points of imperfection and condition.. How do we have free will when the options for not agreeing with the Bible is Hell.. it is a logical fallacy.

God the Almighty doesn't seem so mighty to me if he can't properly communicate with his own creations... No, us unworthy folks gotta rely on the words of "Prophets" how convenient. It is a sham!!!

[soundendurance]

God did not create evil. God created beings with FREE-WILL, the ability to yield or not to yield to His word.

God is ALL good, nothing evil in Him. This is the whole point. In Him is life, He is for you and all men everywhere. He forces no one to yield to Him. But to him who freely yields to Jesus, the Word of God, shall freely receive his divine nature and inherit eternal life.

What are my options if I Jump out of a plane from 15,000 feet. If you tell me death, does that make you evil?

[mfaries42]

No it doesn't make me evil to say, "you're gonna die if you jump outta plane with no means of reaching the ground safely".. my assertion of you intimate demise is rooted in fact bc gravity is an observable FACT.

However, you might be going to hell according to your beliefs since you jumped outta the plane w/ no chute thus it's suicide on your part..

God is fully capable of committing evil and selfish actions... And he wants us to care about him more than our own offspring.. just as Abraham...

[mfaries42]

Your argument for Free Will falls apart when you consider the will of an innocent victim... Yeah a murderer has the will to commit murder, but what of the will of the person that doesn't want to be killed.. whose will does God seem to favor in this case? Sorta points to the murderer huh....

[soundendurance]

You are correct...what about the free-will of the innocent victim. Because of Jesus death the innocent victim can see what God has done to the perpetrator in Christ. God killed him...that is what God did...No one gets away with anything. If that perpetrator does not partake of God's divine nature in which there is no murder, he will still be raised from the dead because of Jesus but he will face the second death. The innocent victim wins either way.

[mfaries42]

Thats baloney!!!!... Essentially, what you're telling me is that God came down to earth in the form of Jesus and committed suicide...(You did admit to me earlier that Jesus was GOD).

And that its ok to let ppl kill other ppl bc your invisible God has a big punishment in store for them in the afterlife... thus another way Christians get out of the responsibilities of this life. 

What if the victim doesn't want to see anyone suffer in hell? If free will was true, the murder need not happen.

[mfaries42]

I could not disagree with you more... First of all, if God were perfect he would not need to correct anything with in his own creation.. Secondly, if God were all loving as you say "for All" he would not direct his followers to war with others with orders to kill every man, woman and child.... even live stock.

You think that just bc God sent Jesus to be sacrificed that he's really any different than how he is perceived in the Old Testament?

I believe it's all a sham via Man.

[soundendurance]

You can not let lawbreakers go free in the name of love. That would not be love that would be lunacy. What about the law-keepers, the innocent, shall they be victimized by lawbreakers in the name of love.

All men can become law-keepers by freely partaking of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ. Ask and you shall receive. There is and will be no excuse when ALL men EVERY WHERE stand before Him to give an account on resurrection day.

[mfaries42]

Resurrection day???don't you mean judgement day? And who gets to judge God for leading men to war in his name? Or for the innocents killed during "acts of God" .... or is God outside the moral code of man? How convenient for God that he can tell us not to kill yet he can kill all he wants.. its a double standard for God...the bible is loaded with them..

[soundendurance]

Jesus Christ is the judge of ALL men everywhere. He stated Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

As for "acts of God" they are not all "acts of God' for creation itself is under the weight of sin made subject to it by man choosing error. Rom 8:19-22

Sin kills NOT God, sin is a cancer and God in His own choosing may cut it out at anytime. Why has he allowed sin to reign this long...To give you and me an opportunity to exist.

[soundendurance]

God has given us everything we need for life and godliness but He no more forces individuals to partake of His divine nature as he does to hydrate, feed and cloth them. Each of us shall see Christ in due time, that is good news.

2Pe 3:3-9 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

[soundendurance]

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[soundendurance]

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:3-9

[mfaries42]

None of your reverent testimony is very relevant since you can't prove the validity of the texts that you place your faith in.

[soundendurance]

There is a hoary L. legal maxim: ignorantia iuris neminem excusat, ignorance of the law excuses nobody.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God...2Pe3:5

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Act 17:30-31

[soundendurance]

the word of God...But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth UNTO righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Rom 10:8-10

[mfaries42]

More preaching huh? Is where you are letting religion do the thinking for you.

Your beliefs are based on faith right? Faith is believing in something which can not be proven right? Reality defined as the sate of things as they actually exist. Meaning that which can be observed or tested thru scientific means..

You sir, deny reality so that you can believe in something that says ppl like me that don't believe blindly like you are going to hell forever..

[mfaries42]

This belief is extremely immoral and has NO basis in reality.. I believe it is You that should be ashamed here Sir. For siding with this belief and denying reality. People should be taught to value THIS life and the lives of others. Stop warring over superstitious beliefs based in ignorance and make the world a better place instead of your door mat before you go to magic invisible fun land.. Just bc it comes out of the freakin bible doesn't make it moral, right or true!!!

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance Give this a little research..Understanding Right Wing Authoritarianism.... google will get you there.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 FAITH - "Now faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see." Therefor, FAITH is not a belief in things unproven but in things unseen.

"Faith convinces us that God created the world through his word. This means what can be seen was made by something that could not be seen."

You can NOT see spoken words...Whether those words be mine, yours, Darwin's or God's. But we have the writings of Darwin and we have writings of God. Believe God.

[soundendurance]

"What can be known about God is clear because he has made it clear. From the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly observed in what he made. As a result, people have no excuse." Rom 1:19-20

Belief in God is belief in His ability to accomplish His word.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:1,3,6

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance ...Faith it is hope based on desire. It does not assure anyone of anything.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance I'm sorry, clearly observed? You are quoting a scripture from a time before reality was explainable by science.. or maybe be since God's power is so clearly observable maybe you could point it out specifically or measure some of it so that everyone can see it.

the truth is that you can "diligently seek" God all you want.. but Heb 11:1,3,6 says nothing about actually locating or finding God..

Belief in God is like belief in Santa Claus.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance we have writings of God??? Prove this statement please bc the whole world would love to see what kind of handwriting God uses.. You know the Mormons claim to have writings of God on golden tablets, that Jesus appeared in the Americas and that Native Americans were actually Hebrew descendants... so should i believe in the Book of Mormon with out proof?

The theory of Evolution is based on scientifically tested evidence and proven to be fact. Darwin has one up on God.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 Well said. "The theory of Evolution" which has had millions and millions and possibly billions and billions of years to prove itself yet its still a THEORY. Gods word has had a few thousand years and has proven itself accurate. By His word God created the heavens and the earth...we can "prove" they exists. God said he would destroy the earth by water though no man had seen rain yet by the word of God it did rain. You can not SEE the other side of this life but by His word it is there.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance .... Yes, i have no problem admitting that evolution is a theory but it has been proven to be a fact because there is tons of evidence to support it. The evidence points to the FACT that human existence also out dates the accounts in the Bible. Evolution also explains why we are so ethnically diverse or do you accept the Biblical explanation for different races of humans? The Bible would have you believe that black ppl are a curse from Cain and Able.. totally untrue.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance I would further recommend you take a class in Biological Anthropology at your local college or university and see for yourself what science accepts as fact and why it doesn't accept the claims of the Bible.. believe me, there are lots of good reasons.

Human existence predates any Biblical scripture and concept out there.. it is a FACT that the bible was written long long after humans began walking the earth. This alone should place doubt as to whether the Bible can be trusted.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 Can you tell me the arguments as to why the methods used to "date" the age of the earth as well dating living organisms are NOT valid? After all, isn't that TRUE science.

As for the mark placed on Cain, can you point me to a scripture where that reference is to people of another color?

As for the bible being written long after humans were created. Seems there was a need to write things down for man to keep the account straight....

[soundendurance]

Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that IT HATH BEEN SAID by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: Mat 5:34 BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Mat 5:38 YE HAVE HEARD that IT HATH BEEN SAID, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Mat 5:39 BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Man's account is not God's

[soundendurance]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[soundendurance]

Exo 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book...

Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses...I will write upon these tables the words...

Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words...

Mat 5:17 (Jesus said) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

What was written has not changed. Jesus proved Himself to be the savior of the world by fulfilling the written word of God.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance I disagree.. Jesus may have proven himself to you as a savior.. but ask the Jews if Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies.. They will say absolutely not..

I see that as a huge problem God if can't convince even "his chosen ppl". The Jews wanted a savior and didn't see those qualities in Jesus. I wonder why?

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance You are assuming Jesus is your savior and redeemer purely just because it says so.

If you want to live your life accepting things and making judgement on that kind of logic ... i feel sorry for you and i don't think it'll get you very far in life. Have a great time forcing your religion onto ppl as you are commanded to do in the Bible. Just don't be surprised when you piss ppl off in the process.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance ... I don't believe that they are invalid. Radiometric dating and Carbon 14 dating won't give you an exact age of something but they will put you in a very close ball park. Thats not to say that they aren't infallible and must be given a window of error. But most of the results from these methods have been proven to be accurate and is accepted by science.

... man i wish the characters for these posts weren't so limited so i could reply in one post..

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance as far as the Mark of Cain thing, I know that the bible doesn't come right out and say that this is the origin of black people but I do know that many fundamentalist have in the past and some still make that connection as ridiculous as it is..

My point however, is that people see what they want to see when it comes to interpreting scripture.. Why would an all powerful, all loving creator allow misinterpretation or conflicting stories.

God could have done better.

[soundendurance]

@mfaries42 The Jews found nothing in him...no sin.

Mat 27:4 He said, "I've sinned by betraying an innocent man." They replied, "What do we care? That's your problem."

The gentiles found nothing in him...no sin

Mat 27:19 While Pilate was judging the case, his wife sent him a message. It said, "Leave that innocent man alone..."

Mat 27:24 ...So Pilate took some water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. He said, "I won't be guilty of killing this man..."

[soundendurance]

God's plan of salvation includes the gentiles.

Rom 11:25 ... blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

If the Jews were not blinded and accepted Christ as Messiah he would have been king and salvation to the gentiles cut off.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[soundendurance]

The prophet Malachi Mal_4:5-6 predicted that Elijah would be sent before the day of the Lord to prepare the way for him.

The day of the Lord encapsulates the beginning of God's judgment. Christ bore our judgment, believe.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days ... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[soundendurance]

Jesus was rejected as God.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary?...

Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.

Mat 9:11 ...Pharisees...said...Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Luk 7:34 ...a friend of publicans and sinners!

[soundendurance]

Mar 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? Mar 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance You know what dude, you win.. If you refuse to take your head out of the Bible to see the reality around you.. Jewish people see a lot of things wrong with Jesus.. I don't care what the Bible says about it, I'm saying, Go ask a devote Jew what their belief is about Jesus and see if it matches your own.. I seriously doubt that a devote Jew will admit that Jesus had no sin....

But i'm done with this conversation bc you are hopelessly convinced of that which you can't prove.

[mfaries42]

@soundendurance You should try thinking for yourself one day instead of letting bias, inaccurate, religious scriptures do it for you.

[airplaneking]

RRS destroyed those buffoons.