Preserving The Sanctity of Marriage

[Cindercheth]

Why not just simply be a good person, without praying to god for every single person, as if the prayer will make all things better? God never seems to show up or help, so maybe he wants us to just be good people... because we WANT to be? And not because of him, or threats of punishment, or promises of heaven?

[Cindercheth]

By the way: I have more respect for nature worshipers then christians, even though nature isn't always friendly. As least nature is tangible. At least trees don't tell you to blame people for imaginary crimes. And there IS a value in nature that so many people miss by living in cities.

[RascalCoyote]

Removing some ones comments, or flagging them, because you disagree with it is childish. people need to grow up here. I mean REALLY.

[Cindercheth]

@RascalCoyote My words are a threat to them. They're afraid that other people will see what I have to say, and see the truth that I give to others, so that they can make their own judgment calls. Unlike the church: I give the truth (the best I am able), and let people make up their minds based on that. Whereas the church gives the "truths" written in a book by people who were surely laughing their butts off when people actually started believing it.

[Cindercheth]

@Cindercheth and expect people to follow it, without question.

[Cindercheth]

Never trust a man who puts his words in the mouth of god and says it's absolute truth, it's lies and it smells like death. It's all in a day's work taking money from the poor. Why do you think that god would need your dirty money if he wants to start a holy war? Voltaire - God Thinks (copied, this time, in case someone gets cute and pulls my comment again)

[Cindercheth]

What the frick? Don't like my comment by Voltaire? What happened to freedom of speech? However my comment got removed: I do NOT approve :/

Seems par for the course, though... pull down anything unfavorable to YOU so that people need not see the common sense such words provide :/

[madmiguelh2o]

Ban divorce in California!

[AnHonestChristian]

Amen. The sanctity of marriage, as well as that of life, must be defended. I am always encouraged to watch videos from your parish preaching the truths of Christ.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian Pro choice, pro equal civil rights, pro equal marriage rights, values the church is against. tell me, if marriage is so sacred, why do half the people that get married get devoted? why are their fights during weddings, why are their so many husbands religious or not cheating on their wives and vice versa? this shits running rampant across the country, "marriage is about as sacred as a redneck named bub, sleeping in his own vomit."

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote God's design for Marriage is indeed very sacred, and can be ruined by divorce, fights, homosexuality, etc. Any good thing can be perverted. I'm surprised you'd submit reasoning like this.

And by the way, the "separation of Church and State" that liberals love to blabber about protects the Church from the government, which is why America does and never will have the right to define Marriage.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian Exactky HOW does two gay who love each other, make the same life comments as you straights, ruin the sanctity of marriage? how? WHAT the hell give the church the right to decide who gets what civil rights? what the hell gives the church the right to decide what should be law? what gives the church the bloody right to impose their morals and beliefs on the non religious?

[Cindercheth]

@RascalCoyote Keep in mind that christians are odd. They judge people based on this "sin", even more so then they judge someone who commits REAL crimes. That has been evidenced by them relocating child molesting preachers :/ It's okay to protect a preacher who's been caught touching little girls, but the gravest sin for adults to be in a gay relationship... (a "sin" that isn't even listed in the 10 commandments, either!).

I really think the church needs to put things in perspective.

[Cindercheth]

@Cindercheth Oh yeah... keeping in mind that they're not supposed to judge ;)

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote There is a higher law than the law of America and your conception of civil rights--the Law of Almighty God. God speaks very clearly through Holy Scripture that homosexuality is a moral evil. Based upon the authority of God's Word, the whole Christian Church has the authority to preach man's condemnation through the Law and his salvation and forgiveness through the Gospel.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian sorry i don't believe on ANY religion that condemns me for my sexual orientation and judges an entire community, your belief that Homosexuality is amoral evil has created much discrimination and hard ship in my community, I don't follow a god or his laws the clearly discriminates against an entire community of people, please show me the scripture where it clearly SAYS "Homosexuality is a moral Evil" WHERE in your bible does it say that?

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote There are a plethora of passages, from both Old & New Testaments: Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; I Corinthians 6:9-10 (note that God extends His grace to homosexuals as He does to everybody), I Timothy 1:9-10, among others. However, I'm not sure that Scripture's testimony is going to sway you...

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian oh this is classic, GOD extends his grace to gays, yet condemns them to and sends them to hell.

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian "separation of Church and State" is also a double edged sword, meant to protect the people FROM religion. To prevent christians from going back to burning "witches" and "nature worshipers". Or, more personally to me - agnostics who believe that NO religion knows god. And the more someone is determined to force their views down my throat, the more violently I'll reject them.

I'm all for peace and love: I am NOT for forcing agendas :/

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth With that thought process, you simply have to choose which truth you believe. That's rather dishonest. It can be clearly seen that the founding fathers favored Christianity from a utilitarian standpoint at least. Past law has been favorable to Christianity as well. We all have an agenda, my friend.

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian Not if you choose to believe what you have directly observed, and what rings true in your heart.

In short: I don't believe in ANYTHING, specifically, save for you, me, and the rest of the world around us. I HAVE had "spiritual" experiences, but since I'm not exactly sure what they mean, I'm not making any basis of reason on them. In the meantime, I don't believe what other people tell me unless they can prove something. Otherwise, I consider it lies.

[Cindercheth]

@Cindercheth even if the "lies" are not intended as lies, and are being told exclusively as a result of them having been misinformed, and actually BELIEVE it.

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth Truth is not introspective. I got that you don't believe anything (which in itself is a statement of belief). I recommend you research Christian apologetics, which deal with the reliability of the Bible and the historicity of Christ and His Resurrection. There are many things beyond reason. Faith is one of those things.

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian I never said I don't believe ANYTHING. I said I don't believe in what other people tell me about spirituality. There are so many people who ALL know "the one true god", and it's mutually exclusive to everyone else's "one true god".

Besides, being gay and knowing the hell my life has been as a result of it, I IMMEDIATELY dismiss anyone telling me it's a choice. I'd have NEVER chosen to be viewed as anathema to society. Why would I?

[Cindercheth]

@Cindercheth When people start telling me it's against god, it especially irritates me, because of that. It feels right to me, it's the kind of life I need to live. I otherwise follow the basic principles of the bible, (no killing, coveting, etcetera), but I can no longer live as a second rate citizen, being ostracized by my culture, because religious zealots (you seem okay, so far) choose to spread it around that I'm an abomination, out to destroy the sanctity of what marriage means :/

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth Folks love talking about the ever-elusive "gay gene." Sin is genetic, sir. Jesus Christ offered Himself on our behalf, in order to cleanse us from our sin. I certainly don't know you, but I can't help but think there was absolutely no influence from some other factor in your life. Please don't take that to be condescending.

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian There was every reason NOT to be gay, I assure you that. Ever hear the friendly little game called "smear the queer"?

Never changed the fact. I just learned to fit in the best I could, otherwise I'd have had five people surrounding me and kicking my butt.

So yeah: I had every reason to be straight... but as an honest person (ultimately) I refuse to live a lie, now that I can stand up and do something about it :/

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth I am sure it was not easy for you. I will pray that you will find God's love for you in Jesus Christ.

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian You've no idea... drugged at 9 by my dad, growing up in gang area, and all that bullcrap over sexual orientation, moving around every few years after the age of 9...

I don't believe in jesus or god as you do. Thank you for the sentiments, really. I just discovered that I had as many prayers answered while praying to Ozzy Osbourne.

But it's so difficult to believe in a god that is supposed to be so loving, casting people into a land of torture.

[Cindercheth]

@Cindercheth or leaving us alone down here on earth with this "satan". I can't help but think that would be like a parent bringing in a known pedophile to babysit their kids >.<

(I'm not trying to bash your faith, but this is what I think when I have read the bible, and I can't shake those thoughts out of my head).

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth We are not called to understand, but believe. Jesus heals our infirmities, as Isaiah 53 tells us, in a spiritual manner. Remember that Jesus was impoverished, humiliated, and savagely tortured and murdered--but this was because of His great love for you and me. Jesus invites to bring our broken lives to Him, losing ourselves in His bloodstained arms.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian  I have heard this before, I'm not supposed to understand the bible, I'm just supposed to believe with out question. sorry, my mind doesn't work like that, in order to believe in something, I must have some understanding of it,

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote I have struggled with the same conflict in my own life, so I can sympathize with you on that. Intellect abused by pride becomes a stumbling block to comprehending the truths that God reveals to us.

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian I don't believe that. Maybe I watched too much catastrophy in life (or WhyDoesn'tGodHealAmputees(dot) com one too many times...)

I don't believe god gets invalved at all. If he did, would we have mentally handicapped people? I mean, god heals dysfunctions, does he not? Why do we have autism and other diseases killing people that god could easily heal?

No, I believe it's up to us to be good WITHOUT his interference .

[RascalCoyote]

@Cindercheth Here's what I was told by a Christian about this, "it's gods will' it's all part of gods divine plan, It's all part of gods cures on man for adams sin., and heres another thing that really disturbs me, adam and eve sins against god and god condemns all creation as a result? animals getting punished by a LOVING god for Adam and Eves disobedience? This does NOT sound like a loving god to me.

[Cindercheth]

@RascalCoyote Agreed!

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth As darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God in peoples' lives. The "amputee argument" is an outright fallacy. The real question is, why should we think God HAS to heal us, or protect us from evil? Creation has been marred by sin (and thus, death).

[Cindercheth]

@AnHonestChristian Oh, you see on those shows the preacher healing cancers and other ills, diseases and illnesses. Yet I have never seen one heal a missing arm.

Also: to use that example you provided me: white paint in a sealed off can is black. It takes light for our eyes to interpret its color.

The church mindset is often "the sealed can", and learning and expanding your mind is "the light".

You can not be just by refusing to acknowledge truth, when it contradicts faith.

[AnHonestChristian]

@Cindercheth I don't buy into the "name it/claim it" charismatic phenomena--I'm more interested in spiritual well-being, though it's not outside the realm of possibility for God to physically heal anyone. Just so you know, in a few years I'll probably be diagnosed as borderline for Marfan syndrome (I have a dilated aorta). So don't think I've never doubted God or asked Him why He didn't heal me. Faith knows truth, so I don't think there's any contradiction there.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian By saying Homosexuality is amoral evil, you are generalizing that all Homosexual are bad people that we are evil by nature. do you actual KNOW any gay people , or does this rather disturbing idea come directly from your interpretation of the bible?

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote All humanity is depraved, homosexual or heterosexual. Due to Original Sin and Man's Fall from Grace, we are condemned before a righteous God. But Christ applies His righteousness to us, making us entirely justified before God, who loved us enough to forgive us of our sin. I know and interact with many gay people, none of whom have ever had any animosity toward me, nor I to them. For my "interpretation" of homosexuality, see St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans, chapter 1.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian You honestly expect me to believe and follow a faith that tells us we're all bad people by default? that we are born bad? a bad baby? Give me a fucking break.

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote I don't play that game. If you want to have dialog, watch your mouth. Please notice that I've been able to present what I believe without having a derogatory attitude like that.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian One big reason I wasn't happy as a christian was because of this fear I was living under of god and this hell fire BS, I simply can not believe in a god that demands fear and throws people to an eternity in hell for being gay.

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote Please see my above comment to RascalCoyote.

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian Science is my religion bro.

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote And isn't it interesting that the study of the natural world is simply observing God work? There's hope for you yet. :)

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian I'll be honest with you, I have tried YOUR life style, I have tried going to church, praying to god, but I wasn't happy, I felt I was living a lie, it wasn't ME.I couldn't be myself. all I know was FEAR, because THAT was what they put into our heads in bible school. once I left the church I never felt happier, BTW, being a christian some how made me very homophobic till I found out I WAS one.

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote God is just, condemning us by His Law, and pardoning our sins by providing forgiveness through the saving work of Jesus, proclaimed in the Gospel. I am sorry for your negative experience, to which I can only reply: "For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23).

[RascalCoyote]

@AnHonestChristian God condemns us, yet , he loves us, it's a love/hate relationship.

[AnHonestChristian]

@RascalCoyote I won't sugarcoat it. God is both just and love. But when we enter into that communion (some might say "relationship") with God, we live by grace, still being mindful and convicted by the fact that we still sin. Most people don't understand what is meant by God's "love" and "hatred" (God is not emotional; these things are used in Semitic metaphors).