Baader-Meinhof (RAF) - In love With Terror - BBC Docu 5/7

[2wisperingwind]

Patsy's, caught in a web.

[VeryCosmopolitan]

The RAF, like the Republicans in Spain, the National Guard in Paris, the IRA in North Ireland, AIM in the United States, and a host of other groups and individuals, were trying to destroy an existing political system which it believed was inherently corrupt and repressive in order that a new, hopefully better, system could be realized, Their "good cause" was inciting revolution. As to Buback specifically, he was a government officer and , therefore, a legitimate target.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "it believed was inherently corrupt and repressive in " The German government (from 1945) in general was not corrupt or repressive. Only perhaps in the ignorant and ideologically twisted mind of the stupid RAF.

""it believed " Aha, only bcs the RAF BELIEVED it. Aha, ok. Then ofc this must be true and justified. Sure. Yep.

"he was a government officer and , therefore, a legitimate target. " WHy on fucking Earth???

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "that a new, hopefully better, system could be realized, "

Hahaha, "hopefully" ... no, they could have analysed that every communist country in history became a bloody and unjust dictatorship where people lived in un-freedom and bitter poverty. That s what they want to turn Germany into, a open and free democracy, one of the most successful country in Europe that brough freedom, prosperity and democracy to Europe after the horrors of the WW2.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "rying to destroy an existing political system" Yeah, this political system is called democracy and free and social(istic) market economy. A system of freedom and pursuit for economic happiness. If they think that this is sooooo injust, then they need to have the balls to speak out what they criticize and stand for their point, find majority and change what they think is injust. But wait, it was only them who were the loonies ... how to get the people s support then???

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron - The political system which you refer to as a democracy is not. It is a plutocracy - a government controlled by the wealthy for the benefit of the wealthy. 20% of U.S. households earn less than $20,000 a year and 12.3% of households fall below the poverty threshhold. However, the current salary (2008) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $169,300 per year (I assume this is does not include kickbacks and bribes). Germany in the 1970s was no different...

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan You are babbling about things, you don t know, except from understanding them.

"Germany in the 1970s was no different..." Yes, it was. Apart from that. This wouldn t justify in the slightest the RAF. Apart from that this is a critics the RAF or any of their brainless monkeys never articulated. Apart from that, democracy is a system of free speech and expression of political will by voting.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "However, the current salary (2008) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $169,300 per year" Ah, really? And what does this have to do with the RAF?????? WHat???? Apart from that if it is soooo easy to enter the House and Senate in the US, why don t you do it then??? Apart from that, in the US the voter turnout normally is aroudn 50 %. Why don t more people go to the ballots then???

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron I believe it was Juvenal who coined the term "bread and circuses", though today it is McDonalds and Hi-Def television which the ruling class employs to keep the masses distracted (or maybe complacent is a better term). The people are unwilling to give up the petty luxuries and conveniences they have to support radical change. Comfort, consumerism, and false security trumped the revolutionary spirit. The variable the revolutionaries never took into consideration is human greed.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "Comfort, consumerism, and false security trumped the revolutionary spirit. " What has this to do with the RAF??? And yes, then ofc, the RAF is "good" bcs they lead the word "revolutionary" in their mouth no matter what this word means and to what it leads. (the dumb RAFs were the least to really have a grasp of what they were doing).

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron Thank you for an interesting exchange, Joaquin. I leave you in possession of the field, as I must get back to my coursework. My parting observation is a quote from Benjamin Franklin (a revolutionary) - "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I imagine Meinhof and Baader would have agreed.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan Hahahaha, you are full of shit. Ofc u need to go bcs you don t have any arguments, facts or logic at all, bcs you have n t through anything for a sec.

No, these monkeys Baader and Meinhof, first they wouldn´t understand this quote, secondly the RAF is never about "liberty". Quite the opposite. Baader disallowed any sort of internal putting in question of what they r doing and the RAF shot anybody who they thought different. Yes, that s liverty a la RAF!!

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "back to my coursework" Yeah, do that, you brainless monkey and come back when you don t repeat all stupid propaganda bullshit that you are told.

What was the essential liberty about the RAF allegedly was fighting for?? The liberty to blow up everybody who thinks critically and speaks up what he thinks and believes??

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan Don t compare Benjamin Frankin to these ignorant dumb stupid murderers of the RAF. Franklin indeed was fighting for essential liberties, democracies and freedom. The RAF was quite the opposite.

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron I was wondering how long it would take you to digress to personal insults... very mature. 

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron By the way - love your use of punctuation.

[joakimveyron]

Hunger strike? Let them die. They were not pleased with the prison conditions? They didn t like being in the prison??? Would they have preferred a 5 star hotel??? OMG, the world full of fools. Somehow, having to live in a prison is professional hazard of a murderer and terrorist. I am ssooooooo sorry for them.

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joakimveyron They wanted to be treated as political prisoners/prisoners of war - which they were.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "political prisoners/prisoners of war" hahahahahahah, very funny. Basically the RAFs were cheap and cowardous murderers. Of which war were they prisoners? And why would they be political prisoners??? They were cheap and bloody murderers. Nothing else.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan And if they really were "freedom fighters' for who they probably consider themselves in their idoelogic distortioned and drug-abused mind, why did they behave like little girls in prison?? They had much better conditions than normal prison inmates. If they really cared for freedom or allegedly better society, then their being in prison only would be a small sacrifice, wouldn't it?? ... the RAFs like all lefties are the most hypocritical persons who ever lived on Earth!

[joaquinveyron]

Nobody has stopped them from protesting against the Vietnam war, by the way. That's what you call democracy where free speech is a protected good.

Ok, they were against the vietnam war. What else did they stand for. Right, communism.

RAF should be remembered for what they were: stupid, dumb, cowardous criminals or - if you think of them positively - people who thought they were looking for something good, but in reality were shizophrenic and mentally mis-guided pschopaths.

[joaquinveyron]

And even given the point that the Vietnam war was wrong and unjust, what has this do with the RAF??? They didn't kill people in a very cowardous way to stop the Vietnam war.

In the stupid, unintelligent, ideologically distortioned mindset, they wanted to install communism in Germany, which would have turned Germany right into the shithole of misery, poverty, exploitation, murder and slavery that other communist countries were. RAF are just dumb killers with a lack of intelligence.

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron To say the RAF members lacked intelligence (considering most of them were college students are college graduates and quite well-read) is nothing more than muckraking and does little to help your argument.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan I don't judge somebody's intelligence by whether this person has studied or not, but by what they say and what they do.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan Feel free to explain me and the world what "good causes" the RAF followed and what helped them killing Buback or the many other innocents to pursue their goals, since you seem to be so knowledgeful about the RAF and the political situation in Germany at that time.

[dionisio454]

They could be everything except spoiled kids. Spoiled kids are cowards and happy slaves of the system totally alienated and so happy to be part of the herd and believe everything marketing , the State and oficial mainstream midia tells them. Right or wrong this group had the guts to put their asses in the line..something that you could never be able to do

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@dionisio454 Would you consider the founding fathers of the United States to be terrorists - they used violence to further an unpopular point of view (read your history - in the late 1700s, there were more loyalists and sympathizers in the New England than there were rebels) and establish a new government and political system and, if the founding fathers had lost in their bid for power, they would have been arrested, tortured, and hanged like common criminals. Luckily they won...

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan They did what all communists do, they killed and tried to kill all those who are in superior positions to them, who have more than them, who are more capable than them.

[VeryCosmopolitan]

@joaquinveyron What did Benno Ohnesorg do to deserve to be shot to death? As Baader asserted. the first generation of the RAF targeted the governement and the military - never civilians and the working classes. The German government obviously did not make such distinctions. The record of the government which the RAF sought to overthrow is a thousand times more sanguine than that of the RAF.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan Ohnesorg, of course, did NOT deserved to be shot to death. What are you taling about??? This was a negligent homicide by the police or "accident", if you want to put it mildly. No question about that. But what has the RAF to do with that??? Nothing.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "never civilians and the working classes. " Incorrect. The RAF killed all of them, completely arbitrarirly. And they, of course, are NOT the police or the judge of anybody!

"The German government obviously did not make such distinctions. "????? What are you talking about???

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan "The record of the government which the RAF sought to overthrow is a thousand times more sanguine than that of the RAF."

Complete bullshit. Who did the German government kill??? From 1945, obviously?? Who????

Apart from that, the RAF were the last to be some kind of avenger of the dead.

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan Try to contemplate the victims of the aggressive imperialistic expansion policy of communist countries, supporting regimes in Africa, SAmerica, and actively taking part or executing in military interventions and invasions of several countries (Afghanistan, South Korea, Angola, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Ethiopia, Chinese Civil War and not to forget Eastern Europe, where the USSR intervened more than 10 times (GDR, Poland, Prague, Budapest, Romania, etc.)).

[joaquinveyron]

370,000 in Poland (about one quarter of party members) and 550,000 in Czechoslovakia (30% of the party). In the Estonian SSR, a purge of "bourgeois nationalists" from the Estonian Communist party occurred from 1949 to 1951.[46] In Czechoslovakia, approximately 130,000 people were sent to prisons, labor camps and mines

- Violent surpression of uprisings in the GDR (1953), Hungary (1956), Poland (1956), Prague (1968), Romania (1989).

Do you have any fucking questions?????

[joaquinveyron]

Communism enslaves people and cripples the economy. Name me only ONE communist country where this was NOT the case!!! Only ONE!!!! ALL communist countries made that people lived in utter poverty and in a brutal dictatorship. Name me only ONE commie country where this was NOT the case. Only ONE!!!!

But yes, the RAF was soooo right, maybe this time in 1 out of 10000000 the revolutionary system was HOPEFULLY better. Are you fucking stupid???????????????

[ManogGimet]

@joaquinveyron yugoslavia

[joaquinveyron]

@ManogGimet

Yeah, good point. ANd why was Yugoslavia not such a bad COMMUNIST SHITHOLE as other COMMUNISTI SHITHOLES, although Yugoslavia still was and is a SHITHOLE???

Bingo, because Tito introduced few MARKET ORIENTED REFORMS and allowed WESTERN CAPITALISTIC TOURISTS come to his country and SPEND HARD CAPITALISTIC MONEY; you complete FOOL!!!

[ManogGimet]

@joaquinveyron you are an angry man, I was just providing a counterexample, no need to insult me or where I'm from

[joaquinveyron]

@ManogGimet

Counter example?? What for?? That the only good thing about Yugoslavia was CPAPITALISTIC??? Well done, mate.

[ManogGimet]

@joaquinveyron

you care so much about ideology you don't look at the facts, like how you cannot deny that Communism took Russia out of its status as a backwater for centuries and turned it into a leading industrial and technological power, or that Yugoslavia had a better educated workforce than most of the west (and not because of HARD EARNED CAPITALISTIC MONEY, like how you oversimplify)

also typing in all caps makes you sound like an angry child, and an asshole, so you should stop that.

[joaquinveyron]

@ManogGimet

Dipshit, I dont care about ideology, but I am against ideology that only created PURE NIGHTMARES.

"into a leading industrial and technological power,"

What??? What?? What?=? What=?? The SU leading power and technolgical poower?? What drugs are you smoking??

Do you mean that technology?? :-) :-) :-) :

watch?v=DHeDBkMO9mI

watch?v=Cu8I4tKkuZ4

watch?v=DHeDBkMO9mI

Just as a memory for you this is what you get in CAPITALISM:

watch?v=9qKmhiyCf54

[ManogGimet]

@joaquinveyron you are an idiot, your parents must have been related

enjoy your ignorant fuckery on youtube

[joaquinveyron]

@ManogGimet

Hahahahaha, yeah, dipshit, I was sure you would say that, because I knew that a brain amputated leftie cannot respond to it n an argumentative level.

Q.E.D.

[ManogGimet]

@joaquinveyron HAHAHAH argumentative level... ok, I'm sorry I can't keep up with you brilliant strategies of pulling statistics out of your ass (96% OF ALL INVENTIONS DIPSHIT HERP DERP) and logical fallacies (OMG WE HAVE SUCH COOLER LOOKING CARS THAN YOU). so no, I have no interest in arguing with you

[joaquinveyron]

@ManogGimet

Hahahahaha, dipshit, then please feel free ... to name ONE communist country which was leading in technology and economy, name at least 3 technologies were communists were leading?? :-) :-- :-) :-)

Hahahahaha.

[joaquinveyron]

@ManogGimet

"Yugoslavia had a better educated workforce than most of the west "

Hahahahahahahaahahah, I guess thats why they were "leading" in all areas of technology, science, innovation, invetionss :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Dipshit, 95 % of all inventions, innovation come from CAPITALISTIC countires.

This is what you get from Yugos:

watch?v=RHmas6JXVi8

Great success!!! :-) :_) :-)

Or this:

/watch?v=4GtDyZVg56k

Do you have any other questioons, dipshiT???

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan Thanks for uploading this movie. I don t know what makes me puke more. Either these atrocious and cowardous crimes committed by the RAF or the dumb, unthoughtful, stupid ideological indoctrination, mental blockade and lies of the RAF members. If you really think about what the RAF members say, their stupidity and ideological blindness really hurts. It makes me puke that they even think that they did things for a "good, just" cause. Yuck!

[joaquinveyron]

@VeryCosmopolitan

"never civilians and the working classes."

My ass, Norbert Schmid (32), Policeman

Herbert Schoner (32), Policeman Fritz Sippel (22), Policeman Heinz Marcisz (41), driver

Dionysius de Jong (19)

Johannes Petrus Goemans (24), Dutch customs officials

Edith Kletzhändler (56), housewife

Becky Jo Bristol (25), civilian

Eckhard Groppler (42), driver

Baader gave the dead drivers the advice that they could have become train operater or bus driver.

[exrock712]

if interested, try these excellent books:

Hitler's Children: The Story of the Baader-Meinhof Terrorist Gang-by Jillian Becker (story ends before full history was known)

Baader-Meinhof: The Inside story of the RAF-by Stefan Aust (a postmortem on the group incorporating previously classified documents)

[exrock712]

Spoiled neo-marxist kids. Perhaps they would have preferred to be held by jihadists. Oh, I forgot, Frankfurt school neo-marxists are allies of the jihadists.

[thegrotto666]

Very interesting, where can I find the last two parts?