Dion backs away from Throne Speech ultimatum

[footchannel9]

stupid incoherent frog.

[photo986]

Dear Mr Dion my MP Hedy Fry wrote to the govt on my behalf until she got frustrated not getting an answer told me the Harper Govt is Secretative and controlling we don't need that we need open honest straight forward govt

[fatdog09]

Dion is such a joke!! haha

he has no chance!

[scubaspears]

I know Mr/ malrooney (conservative) was one of the worst things to happen to this country. THe Liberal party (as of the last ten years) is now one of the worst things to happen. I work internationally and I swear if the conservatives do not win the fed election I will leave the country and invest my money in a country that actually cares about itself.

[nickgibson1]

The Liberals cleaned up the economic mess of previous regimes and grew the economy. Once it was finally in a position to start reinvesting in the country at a level that it wanted to it lost the government. Im not quite sure what your basis is concerning investment in Canada with a Liberal Government vs a Conservative Government...

[PrimarySource888]

If you are talking about the deficit then remember interest rates dropped from 9-12% under Mulroney to 3-4% under Chretien. Both PMs inherited a deficit, but only Chretien could realistically do anything about it.

The Liberals do get credit for eliminating the deficit, but then they blew their surpluses on pork, political graft and generally unfocused spending. By contrast, the Tories use the surplus to pay off debt and fight inflation. I know what I prefer.

[nickgibson1]

Paying off the debt is important but reinvestment in infrastructure in this country is also important. A balance approach ensures economic stability and strong social infrastructure...

[PrimarySource888]

Agreed. But the feds are doing both you know. They have setup a billion-dollar fund for infrastructure projects and they've made the equalization formula predictable which allows provinces to make long-term spending plans. Under the constitution infrastructure is almost exclusively a provincial responsibility, and this puts the spending power back in their hands. Past federal governments used their spending power to control the provinces and buy votes. Again, I know what approach I prefer.

[nickgibson1]

Now, let me make this clear. I will not vote for the Conservatives next election, nor I doubt that I will in the future (but I can never rule it out because I would have to make the decision at that time). However, I do think that Mr Harper has done some good things. Fixing the Equalization formula is certainly one of them. However, what concerns me is the fact that Mr Harper seems to be weakening the federal gov't a bit too much. The provinces do not have much in the way to collect revenues...

[nickgibson1]

...as was laid out in the original BNA act. So it is the role of the federal government to make sure it provides for the provinces because of the massive infrastructure jurisdiction for the provinces with little revenue to meet the demands. However, it is important that the federal government fixes this but does not go much farther in weakening the federal government. If it does, it will remove the capacity for our state to act in times of need, and I think we can all agree that we want govt...

[nickgibson1]

...to be able to help us in times of need (we need no other example then in the great depression). I also might add that the Conservatives are in a favourable position when it comes to meeting the needs of the provinces at this time as they inherited large surpluses. I do like the improvement of the equalization formula certainly, but as I said I think Mr Harper should not weaken the federal govt much more than that as he has implied (ie reopening the constitution w.r.t to Quebec "nation")

[PrimarySource888]

Interesting, this is one main policy differences between 'C'onservatives and 'L'iberals in Canada - Liberals centralize powers while Conservatives devolve them to lower levels. I agree the feds should set national standards, but disagree that devolved powers undermines this as they can always legislate when needed. I personally think lower levels of government are best suited to deliver services and it saves money by not duplicating bureaucracies at the federal level.

[PrimarySource888]

Harper specifically does NOT want to open the constitution re: Quebec, he's said so many times and all of their reforms can be done through legislation or parliamentary convention.

Its just more Liberal fear mongering designed to prevent an elected Senate and other democratic reform. Trudeau and Chretien created the problem in the first place by stabbing Quebec in the back in 1982, and then used a divided Canada to their electoral advantage in the decades since.

[nickgibson1]

I refer you to the Globe and Mail article on the front page from about a week ago RE: A Harper Majority would reopen Constitution w.r.t. Quebec. Now granted I am going with this from my professor so forgive me for not knowing the contents of the article itself but my professor did not mention a word about the Liberals and Mr Dion(I also could not find the link in my quick search, prob could if i tried but I do have exams to worry about).

And again we differ on democratic reform but w/e...:)

[PrimarySource888]

Sure, the Globe story shows us exactly how it works. First they print a story that is more innuendo than fact, while ignoring numerous clear statements by the PM to the contrary. Then the opposition use the innuendo as an attack, and the rest of us just assume its based on truth. Its not, and it rarely is, otherwise I might actually vote Liberal.

Anyway, Harper made his position unequivocal AGAIN today, not that there was ever any doubt. Never trust poli sci professors or the Globe and Mail!

[nickgibson1]

Well I do take all print media with a grain of salt, and the Globe and Mail is no different. However, it is a credible source of information so there have certainly been whispers of these sort of ideas...whether they were taken out of context or not is for the reader to analyze...

As for my poli sci prof, he is one of the most respected political science professors in this country and is the Dean of Arts at this university...I think its safe to say he is a credible source

[PrimarySource888]

The professor dig was just for fun. But he's not a 'source', he just repeated the Globe editorial. Anyway, everyone is biased, so when faced with limited column inches/airtime any media outlet must engage in gatekeeping, and their bias inevitably guides those decisions. Some may even deliberately filter or spin the truth to support their bias. Its almost impossible to untangle the web, so I prefer to go straight to the source. That's why I post these videos ... Anyway, good debate.

[lkcwu]

"I do take all print media with a grain of salt." That has got to be the biggest joke in the history Youtube.

You were the one who said the Saskatchewan report against the Green Shift was questionable because, in yoru own words, Brad Wall is a Conservative. Yet the Green Shift, a hastily put together plan with no direction or goals other than "let's hope the economy goes green." You bought into it, and the Dion platform completely.

I think you're either double-talking, or a complete idiot.

[scubaspears]

superninja look into what harper has been up to. There is a 50 year plan in place will be achieved in small steps. First, weaning off the oil without damaging our economy. second billions of dollars into public transit already.

[tillo2008]

cont'd from scubaspears-

-giving USA space technology for free

-working with USA and Mexico in closed quarters with each country's 10 largest corporations to set up S.P.P. Corridor

-denying that the SPP has any plans in place

[mikefastener]

Elizabeth May said today (as reported in the Toronto Star--yes, I was placing it into my bird cage--the only proper use for the Star), "Dion should not continue to try to be something he is not". I guess she also knows he is trying to be a leader!!!

[mikefastener]

Please, all lie-beral supporters...don't get mad at us. Get mad at the lie-berals that fooled you. Don't be mad at us that we were "Right" in the first place!

[PrimarySource888]

Come on Gillhoolee, it remains to be seen whether Khan broke the law, and if he did it was while he was a Liberal candidate/MP. True there is a dispute between Elections Canada and CPC over election spending in 60+/- ridings. CPC took legal advice before spending the money and are convinced the spending was legal. They reported everything to Elections Canada who disagreed. They're now in court to settle the question, and until that's done these accusations just don't hold any water.

[Gillhoolee]

Is it any wonder Harper jumped all over Elections Canada for not interpreting his poorly written 'veil law'. What, maybe 5 people and he had to try and read the riot act from Australia. Sounds like he has an axe to grind, or a vendetta of sorts....hmmmm. To bad he can't just deport them.lol

[PrimarySource888]

Quite an accusation, any proof? As usual you refuse any meaningful debate and engage in drive-by smears.

Elections Canada CEO Marc Mayrand had a valid point, but if you think Harper has a vendetta against him then you have to consider the reverse is possible too in light of Mayrand's position on the CPC election spending. There's simply no evidence either man has a vendetta for the other, they're sorting out their legitimate disagreements on specific issues out in the open.

[Gillhoolee]

Perhaps you are right, and Harpers 'over the top' response was just another way to kick a community all ready reeling from a public backlash and turn it into votes?

AT A BOY! HARPER! YOU DA MAN!

[PrimarySource888]

That's just more bullshit. Everyone knows the Muslim community didn't want special treatment, and they were offended by the whole situation. What votes do you imagine they were trying to win? Anyway, it wasn't just the government, all parties lined up to kick Mayrand at committee when the real problem was a poorly written law they drafted and passed together.

[mikefastener]

Frankly, you are sounding like the fool you have as a "leader". All party leaders supported this exposed face election law--if you have any integrity, criticize Dion in your next response; otherwise, you are a hypocrite!

[Gillhoolee]

How many KHAN -SERVATIVES have over spent on their election campaigns..Rumour is around 60. Wow! Breaking election law while attacking the Libs? Now ain't that shocking?

[mikefastener]

The discussion here is getting, heated. I'm sure we all agree that the lie-beral party was, and still is, a very corrupt party. Right? (By-the-way, do not use the term, "whip" for Dion getting his MP's to vote as he dictates, for Dion the term has been changed to, "wimp".

[Gillhoolee]

One can only look to the 'Bill Casey's' and the 'Garth Turners' and think when will the others realize that it is not 'THEY' in power, it is STEVIE HARPER alone and they really have no say. I think the pressure is building in both parties, Some MP's have taken to throwing pencils at each other because they feel,well...USELESS.lol

[mikefastener]

Lie-beral corruption must stop! Stand up for Canada-Dion--not worth the risk!

[superninja13]

Conservative corruption must stop too.

But please, lay off the slogans and talking points.

[PrimarySource888]

Time to be specific Superninja ... what Conservative corruption??? This government is the cleanest we've seen in decades, no matter what you might think of their policies. Also, you're incorrect to suggest they are anti-gay, anti-abortion or climate change deniers. Liberals want them to be, but they're not.

[superninja13]

"Secret" financiers, which Harper would not name. Big oil coys are setting the agenda. There's been alot of this.

Oh, then there's Mulroney.

[PrimarySource888]

I don't think there's anything to that claim. The Tories have offered to open their leadership financing books if the other Parties would do the same, but none have agreed. There was no mandatory reporting of political financing of leadership races until the Accountability Act came into effect in 2007. One might ask why the Liberal Senate was so bent on delaying its implementation until after the 2006 Liberal leadership convention. Who were THEIR secret financiers?

[superninja13]

Hey, let's find out, I'm all for that.

You're playing tit for tat, Libs vs. Cons, and I agree, they are both corrupt.

[PrimarySource888]

As for big oil, it could be true but I haven't seen anything to convince me of that. Aren't they still pissed at Harper over income trusts? That really cost big oil, not in their interest at all.

And nobody really thinks Harper has anything to do with the Mulroney-Schrieber affair. The opposition are making all kinds of accusations, but nobody's buying it. Seriously, even some journalists seem embarrassed for Dion and Thiebault for making such ridiculous claims.

[PhilipJFry72]

Harper will name the financial donors the minute the Liberals open their books!

They can't make that any clearer.

Only someone being willfully ignorant would suggest they have anything to hide.

If the Liberals are clean, they'll open their books and the Conservatives will open theirs.

[mikefastener]

Why, "lay off the slogans and talking points", when these slogans and talking points are so very correct? It is obvious, if the liberals loved Canada as much as they loved themselves, they would be in office today.

[superninja13]

Because you should be able to think and speak for yourself, not as a "dittohead". You want to be a walking advertisment-robot, that's your perrogative. Hopefully you'll learn to think on your own, till then keep drinking the Kool Aid.

[mikefastener]

It's amazing how angry liberals get when presented with the facts. Okay, okay--keep the insults down and get mad at those that let you down (lie-berals) not those that were "right" in the first place.

[superninja13]

Dude, I'm not a Liberal and I'm not really angry.

[mikefastener]

By-the-way, "think on your own"! I have 2 university degrees (not in left wing weirdness where BA's sit in the cafeteria discussing the lint in their bellybuttons). Please, tone down the sad defence—admit you were fooled by the lie-berals and move forward. Good idea?

[superninja13]

I've met alot of stupid people with alot of education. I'm sure you're smart, but it's just not apparent by what you write.

Liberals were bad and the Conservatives are outright poison for Canada. But what choices are we left with? NDP? Green Party?

They all get my scrutiny.

[mikefastener]

Sadly, they may all get your scruitiny; however, your judgement is lacking. The Conservatives have provided solid, non-dithering, honest government. I only wish left-wingers would admit this and work for Canadians (not their party). It's what I do!

Yes-the best way to say it is, "Stand up for Canada!".

[superninja13]

The Conservatives' changed position on the environment; from denial to forked tongue.

A Conservative govmnt would've led us into the Iraq war. Ah, yea, a solid mistake.

Daycare and the other social programs Cons have cut is short sighted.

[mikefastener]

Oh my god!!! You can't be serious! Environment--who has the best record...Dion's liberals or Bush's Republicans?---Bush of course. Iraq War--Martin wanted in--did you still vote for him in the last election? Daycare--please let the true experts, Dad and Mom decide--not the union bosses who want more membership rather than helping children.

Please, you cannot be serious in your comments.

[superninja13]

Martin said no to the Iraq war. So your wrong.

It's the Liberals that committed to Kyotot and Harper who sabotaged it, so your wrong there.

Daycare- the experts, the sociologist and economists, agree that subsidized day care is better for the children's developement, the parents and the economy.

[mikefastener]

Martin could not over-rule Chrétien and therefore agreed to no support for the Iraq war (at least in public). So....after 13 years of lie-beral government, Harper sabotaged Kyoto in what..12 months...please be serious. Daycare-you classify economists as experts? Why will left-wingers never let people decide, rather than supporting their union bosses?

[PhilipJFry72]

Bullshit. The Conservatives are a boon for Canada, and with their re-investment in the military, commitment to exploring, protecting, and developing the North, combined with their judicious use of taxpayer dollars, combined with a willingness to participate in world affairs, Canada is poised to be something to be proud of again.

[superninja13]

Their "judicious use of taxpayer dollars" is refered to as neoliberalism. This system brought Ontario into debt and Canada into debt after Mulroney.

Willingness to participate in world affairs? ha, like Kyoto? Science denied by corporate interests.

[one199]

superninja, trudeau brought canada into a deficit postion, and the debt existed before that. mulroney brought in the GST in part to pay down the debt. as for kyoto, the liberals signed it and promised to reduce emissions but did nothing.

[superninja13]

Mulroney. Nice example. Brings in GST but doesn't pay taxes himself.

Environment will be the #1 issue next election. Harper has been bought out by big oil and Canadians will fire his ass for it.

[one199]

schreiber is a liar, nothing has been proven in court, don't milk that silly issue, second, liberals have a worse track record on the environment and all the tories need to do is remind people that. do you believe eveything the liberal party tells you?

[superninja13]

Sure Schreiber is a liar. Birds of a feather flock together. Mulroney admits to taking a shady pay off and hides it from taxman.

I do believe Dione genuinely cares about the environment and Harper's position is based on his connections to Big Oil.

[one199]

fair enough

[dairyproducts]

no they did something but unfortunately the whole oil situation in alberta went spiraling out of control and alterations made were no longer enough.

the old liberal ideas are reformed.

dion is far more left then chretien and martin and has the credentials and experience to reform our enviromental policies.

[PhilipJFry72]

The Conservatives have been honest and above-board with everything they've done.

The only corruption is with the Liberals.

[subfloorjoist]

you did support the throne speach....so therefore you only care about.....THE LIBERALS!

[Gillhoolee]

The Throne speech is an agenda, nothing more. In part an agenda RE-introducing legislation already passed by the house ,in some feeble attempt to show-boat a "tough on Crime" stance. and cash in on previous Tory fear mongering.

[subfloorjoist]

i dont think so

[PrimarySource888]

What Tory fear mongering, Gillhoolee? Dion is always saying Harper has a hidden agenda, and that we should all be afraid of what Tories would do with a majority government - In fact, we've heard that line from you too. But I can't think of a single example of Tory fear mongering.

[superninja13]

Good point, what fear mongering?

Now, realise Gillhoolee any example given gets compared to what the Liberals did, thereby making it "okay" because the EVIL Liberals already set the standard. Get it?

[subfloorjoist]

we will think about canadians...we dont think they want an election!

[01spook10]

The current "Liberal" Party of Canada, in it's actions and stated policy, stands for Statisism/Centralism rather then Liberalism/Freedom.

[PrimarySource888]

I agree! I'm always telling people that the Liberal and Conservative parties don't match their labels in Canada. Everyone is surprised to hear Conservatives are really classic liberals, and Liberals are really social democrats. Just look at their relative positions on big government vs. small, central spending vs. devolved spending, high taxes vs. low taxes, government control vs. laissez-faire.

[superninja13]

Conservatives practises of affiliation to oil industry and reactionary ideas on social issue shadow that of the Republicans. And how's that going? ALWAYS remember, Harper wanted to send us to Iraq.

[01spook10]

I understand the "Liberal" party's preference of a government controlled economy. I'm contrasting that with CP's ballanced freemarket ideology.

BTW: As the opposition it was their duty to critique the LP actions. Paul Martin's support for the the war was in contrast to his own leader. Did this stop you from voting for him?

[superninja13]

The differance I'm suspicious of with the Conservatives is that they seems to not want any social programs; whereas the most sucessful countries do exactly this.

Paul Martin put in a universal healthcare and did the Kelowna Accord. I think he did okay, for a guy in inherited a mess.

[Gillhoolee]

The AUSSIES got it right,they did the right thing, kicking the Con's to the Curb this week.Bush only has one "Buddy" left.

[mikefastener]

Interestingly!? Do you agree that Canadian's "did the right thing" in kicking out the corrupt lib-eral government?

[superninja13]

I think Canada voted out the Liberals, a side effect being the Cons get in.

And the corruption of the Cons is blatant.

[Gillhoolee]

That is how I feel. I still feel Harper didn't "wim" but Martin lost. Harper is where he is do to timing and not his ability.

[PhilipJFry72]

What corruption is that?

[mikefastener]

Wow! (Is history being rewritten?) Universal healthcare under Paul Martin? (A millionaire who goes to a private clinic.) Kelowna Accord? (He frantically put together on the cusp of his government falling.) Inherited a mess? He was the most senior minister in that gov't and had some responsibility for that mess!

[superninja13]

The guy is a CEO of major corporation; Harper is hoping to be a big oil "advisor" or "director" someday. Martin has also dedicated his life to the First Nations and Canadian relations.

He was divided from Chretien for a quite a while.

[01spook10]

Paul Martin was divided from Chretien in his support for the war in Iraq.

[superninja13]

Interesting. I never heard that.

[PhilipJFry72]

ALWAYS remember that the Liberals are more closely allied to the Republican Party of the US.

ALWAYS remember that. The Republicans steal taxpayer money, and so did the Liberals. The Republicans stack the Surpeme Court, so did the Liberals. The Republicans used their majority to block/neuter inquiries, and so did the Liberals.

[superninja13]

anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-oil, enviroment denial, and base voters think the world is a thousand years old; paralells to the Cdn Cons and the Republicans, thats just for starters..

[PhilipJFry72]

There are more Liberals who are anti-abortion than Conservatives...

Steeerike ONE!

The Republicans and the Liberals stole taxpayer money then used their majorities and stacked judiciaries to avoid liability.

Steeerike Two!

[superninja13]

Liberals stance on abortion is to allow it.

The paralells between Liberal and Republican are far fetched. In ideaology and tactics, the Conservatives mirror image the Bush regime.

The umpire is watching the wrong game, chump.

[PhilipJFry72]

So is the Conservatives. BUT the Liberals have the same percentage of anti-abortion MP's as everyone else.

Once again, you're wrong.

Seriously, this is like "Pros vs Joes" and you're such a "Joe." Fuck man! Do some reading. Or learn to.

[PhilipJFry72]

And finally, the Liberals talk about accepting homosexuals, but rather than alientate a huge new-immigrant voter base for them, relied on the Supreme Court to deliver gay rights.

STEEEEEEEEEEEErike THREE!

You - and the Liberals - are OUT!

[superninja13]

So the Supreme Court is a tool of the Liberal government in your world.

Interesting.

[PhilipJFry72]

I'm a man who goes by what is done, and the Liberals have stacked the deck in pro-Liberal judges. A few years ago, there were a few stories done on how many Supreme Court judges had made personal donations to the Liberal Party.

ALL but one had.

[PrimarySource888]

Most Canadians think Cretien did right by keeping Canada out of Iraq, but we forget the Liberal Party was split on the issue. Also, Michael Ignatieff aggressively promoted the Iraq war in the US under the "Responsibility to Protect" doctrine, just like Harper. Both Harper and Ignatieff have since changed their opinions on the legitimacy of the war.

[superninja13]

This is true. It was P.Martin against the war, so I heard.

And I like Ignatieff. He's by far the most articulate of Harper, Dion, Layton....

[mikefastener]

Ignatieff, tripping over his tongue during the leadership contest. Dion--2 political tools...a shovel to dig himself into a hole and a paint brush to paint himself into a corner. Obviously, he's not worth the risk!

[superninja13]

"he's not worth the risk!" - Are you a parot?

I didn't find Ignatieff tripped over his tonque. As I understand it, he lost because those who were losing to Ignatieff amalgamated to support Dion.

[mikefastener]

Curious, is it, "parot" or "parrot"? Regardless, your friend made several politically incorrect statements during the leadership contest (foot-in-the-month disease). (Ironically, they eventually didn't even elect a leader!) With Dion's flip-flops, I don't know who this guy is!

Do you???

[superninja13]

Flip flop, another Republican label! Totally used by the Neo Cons!  It makes anyone who discusses the nuances of any topic, anyone who weighs in both ends of the spectrum on a problem as indecisive.

Nice birdy, here's your cracker!

[Gillhoolee]

They All say "they want Parliament to work"....

1. Why then do the Tories try and govern as if they had a Majority of Canadian's support?

2. Why would The NDP by vote against the speech before seeing it?

3 The Bloc...welll the Harper 'gift' of $700,000,000 only gets you so much loyalty.

The Liberals are the only Party being truthful in trying to make Parliament work, the rest need their knuckles wrapped.

[PhilipJFry72]

Oh please! The Liberals have been obstructing the work of the House of Commons since the current minority Parliament was formed. That's why so many bills are being re-introduced.

The Liberals still think they're in power, and the sooner they get their heads out of their asses and get with the program, the sooner we can get rid of the Chretien-Liberal-Cancer and get out country back.

[superninja13]

Obstructing? I disagree. The Conservatives want to introduce alot of bills based on the ideaology of their voter base: religious zealots. Neo-Cons have been ramroding their American Rwing ideas since day one.

[PhilipJFry72]

Bullshit! I'm a Conservative and I'm not a "neo-con" or a religious zealot. You're telling me you disagree with mandatory sentencing laws? Or proper funding for the military? Or actually getting things done. The Liberals only stole money while they were in power. Other than that, they didn't do anything.

[superninja13]

Hardline punishment don't work in criminal cases. Liberals started the military spending and equipment, I know this first hand. Economy Liberal created allows this. Harper wants us in Iraq, doesn't believe in environmental science and thinks the wo rld is 10,000 yrs old. Your leader.

[PhilipJFry72]

WHAT? Where did you get that the Liberals started spending money on the military. The Liberals CUT military spending. I know. I was there!

The Liberals "created economy" is because they inherited the GST from Mulroney, and the oil revenues in Alberta.

They didn't do anything.

Where do you get your facts from?

Back them up.

Where did you get your religious "facts" from?

[superninja13]

Yes. Liberals let the CF decay in the 80's, early 90's. Then they made changes and most of those changes and cash injections, new equipment came from the Liberals.

Let's face it, GST was a good thing. Now, they're lowering it, strictly for image reasons.

[PhilipJFry72]

You've got your history wrong. The CF was not in decay in the 80's. It was the 90's, during the Chretien years that the CF was raped.

[superninja13]

I was in school in the 80's, but I recall mil pers disliking Trudeau... 90's - decay. The more recent changes, the pay raises, new kit, lavs and so on started w/ Liberals in power.

[PhilipJFry72]

They LAV's did. However, the LAV's were initially given a green light under the Conservatives.

LETE was a base in Ottawa where they underwent YEARS of testing.

[PhilipJFry72]

New Frigates? Again, started under the Conservatives.

No, every argument you've presented has been shot down, but if you were really a soldier, you'd know all that already. You're "Gillhoolee" in disguise.

[superninja13]

Uh, yea... Go drink the Kool Aid.

[PhilipJFry72]

No, this really has me pissed off. I can't imagine any soldier would have anything positive to say about the Liberals after the Somalia Inquiry, after the "Decade of Darkness" where the military was chopped to under 60000 troops, where there wasn't enough money to actually have tanks conduct more than 20km of per day - which included the 10 to 15 km of travelling to the tank ranges! - and the lack of ammunition, both real and blank, and the disbandment of the Airborne,

[superninja13]

Somalia inquiry revealed some serious problems. Disbanding them was their punishment. Duality of it was it saved money and mass airborne drops just aint tactically sound.

[PhilipJFry72]

It was never about mass-airborne drops.

[PhilipJFry72]

You really aren't a soldier. No soldier would EVER say that about the Airborne.

You're level of thinking is ridiculous!

If the Airborne was a bad idea, then why is the jump school in Trenton operating at full capacity all year long?

If the Airborne was a bad idea that saved money, how is it that it's been re-constituted under a new name?

You're no soldatten.

[superninja13]

I just did. The Airborne mentallity is long dead. Signifigant Incident was an okay book, but I'm living in the present.

No soldatten; those guys were defeated by Canadian soldiers.

[PhilipJFry72]

No, the Airborne mentality is not dead. It is alive and kicking after all those years of Liberal neglect.

It is alive in the jump companies of the infantry battalions.

It is alive in the jump sections of non-infantry regiments.

It is alive in the JTF2, and the SOR.

But then again, if you were a soldier you'd know that.

[superninja13]

Why'd you quit?

Since I've worked with all units mentioned.

None of them have burnt the RO under the CO's car.

[PhilipJFry72]

I don't believe for a minute you've worked with any of those units.

If you did, you'd have some pride.

If you did, you'd know what you were talking about.

If you did, you'd simply "KNOW" and from your posts, you don't have a fucking clue.

Again, "Pros vs Joes" and you're just a "Joe."

[PhilipJFry72]

If you had truly been in the military during the "Dark" times, you'd know how bad the Liberals were, and still are, for the military.

I find it hard to believe that a 34 year old "guy" would rather have Liberal corruption and incompetence; EH101's, submarines, cutbacks, Somalia, Tainted Blood, APEC, Shawinigate, Sponsorship, Billion Dollar Boondoggles... The list is practically endless.

[superninja13]

Truth is Liberals starved the military and then late 90's they brought in new equipment, uniforms, so on. These things do take time and had to be started earlier.

[PhilipJFry72]

Bullshit! New kit? Nothing new was bought by the Liberals.

Not only that, but you still haven't addressed training budgets and that alot of training and skillsets had to be cut for legal reasons and public optics.

[superninja13]

Yea, new kit. Sorry if this doesn't adhere to your simplistic views, but those are the facts.

(and no, I'm not referring to the LSVW)

[PhilipJFry72]

No, your facts are wrong. The LAV's arrived under the Liberals, but started under the Conservatives. The "Clothe the Soldier" program began under the Conservatives, but arrived under the Liberals.

You CAN spot the difference, can't you?

[superninja13]

Wrong. Switch Cons for Libs and you'd be correct. But I see what you're saying...

"Everything good came from the Conservatives and everything bad was Liberal". These are the blinders you choose to wear.

[PhilipJFry72]

No, I'm not wrong. Check your facts. You simply cannot argue with the start dates, or the tendering dates.

Just because something was delivered during one gvt does NOT mean it gets credit for it.

Or is that too simple an explanation for you?

[superninja13]

No, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Liberals iniated alot of aquisitions in equipment and Conservatives came in. From a military perspective, the Conservatives have done everything they can for the soldiers

[PhilipJFry72]

You couldn't be MORE wrong.

The Conservatives have the reputation of supporting the military because THEY DO!

The Liberals don't have it because they DON'T.

Check your dates as to when the LAV's were first conceived, when "Clothe the Soldier" began.

You're just so comically fucked-up. You're a joke, and if you're in uniform, I'm amazed you're not being beaten up every weekend.

[superninja13]

LAVs yes, Pay increases yes, alot of overlapping for sure. To simply say Liberals did not improve the military toward and action progress in the late 90's is simply inaccurate.

As for the personal attacks, they're quite revealing about you.

[PhilipJFry72]

See? This is why I don't think you're a soldier. You've invested so much into your mistake that now you don't feel you can back out.

Just do what a real soldier would do. Admit you're wrong, accept the teasing, and learn from it. Learn to differentiate between delivery dates and project-starting dates.

[PhilipJFry72]

You show me proof, give me a statement made in the media, about Harper's religious views.

Did you ever serve in the military?

Environmental science is controversial and very fluid. Even the top cimatologists admit that.

[superninja13]

Show you proof? Try googling "Harper+theocracy". I'm not your secretary.

Yes, 14 years in and happy Harper didn't send me and my buddies to Iraq because his a neo-con cheerleader. Environment? Curious, Cons get funded secretly by big oil and they don't buy in to science. Odd, isn't it?

[PhilipJFry72]

Bullshit! You're no soldier. Every single one of my colleagues recognizes that it is our JOB to fight. That's why we exist.

You can't provide any "theocracy" links, or speeches about his beliefs, because he does not mix religion and government.

Hey!  Dumbass! "Harper's Magazine" does not refer to Stephen Harper.

[superninja13]

Your colleagues, eh? Yea, all of my colleagues would do their job to the death and, simutamiously, realizing WBush is a fucking moron, Iraq is a quagmire and Harper voted to send us to Iraq. Liberals said no.

[PhilipJFry72]

Jean Chretien just admitted YESTERDAY that he was going to send troops to Iraq!

It was on CBC!

Dude, are you ever tired of being wrong?

[superninja13]

Who's was the PM again?

The smartest PM of the last 3 we've had, that's who.

[PhilipJFry72]

You make wild accusations like another Liberal-lying-pansy "Gillhoolee" - he/they make wild claims and never have any proof.

And more importantly, when faced with undeniable evidence that the Liberals are evil, you, Gillhoolee, and the other ignorant, scared, and morally-bankrupt dumbasses ignore it. You pretend it doesn't exist.

[PhilipJFry72]

If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

If you were a soldier, you'd know that.

[superninja13]

"if you were a soldier", eh?

It's not a matter of consequences, it's about military ethos. Something you would know if you were really a soldier.

[PhilipJFry72]

You cannot separate consequences from the military ethos. They are one and the same. Discipline is founded on consequences. The RCR motto is "Never Pass a Fault."

Maybe you're smart enough to figure that out on your own.

Again, I wouldn't share a trench with you, and if you were in my tank, you wouldn't be for long.

If you were a soldier, you'd know "Trees move at night."

[superninja13]

You're babbling.

And you don't know shit.

[baird007]

Liberals being truthful? Seriously, that made me laugh to no extent! If they were being truthful, they would apologize for all of the boondoggle plans they made and kick out all the members responsible for them What do they do instead? They bring them back as if nothing ever happened in the world of Liberals.

[01spook10]

Dion wipping his party into collective parliamentary abstention makes the "Liberal" party seem more like the Bolshevik or National Socalist Party of Canada.

[Gillhoolee]

One must remember it is a PARTY ,not an organized clusterf***. The fact he can whip them speaks to the Smear tactic of portraying him as weak. There is a price for such action, not unlike the boy who cries wolf. Harper too is practicing even more severe tactics that he has extended in to the personal lives of his 'posse'. No social engagements he disapproves of, no 'FaceBook' etc.etc, It can only get worse for the 'spinless worms' he calls a Cabinet.

[01spook10]

I'm afraid, in fact, Dion is far more notorius for his rigid ultimatums to his associates. Now he boycotts parliament. No wonder the CPC is 12 points ahead in the latest Angus Reid poll.

[superninja13]

Angus Reid poll. Really. What kind of thinking is that? So, if a majority of people believe the earth is flat, it must be so.

[01spook10]

The "cause" is LP actions in relation to CP's the "result" is the pulling data. Not the other way around as you have it.

[PrimarySource888]

The issue isn't party discipline, it's that Dion uses party discipline to abstain, rather than oppose. As for Harper telling his caucus to skip the press gallery dinner and stay off Facebook, these are public forums, not the personal lives of MPs as you suggest. As for the "gift" to the bloc (as you call it), EVERY provice got increased transfers proportional to their population, Quebec got nothing special. And it certainly wasn't a gift to the Bloc, they've dropped dramatically in the polls.

[superninja13]

Harper making the Throne speech an ultimatum makes it seem more like bully tactic.

Bolshevik? please...

[nicholemonade]

He's definately dodging questions, but hell, that's what politicians do! Voting against would be a bad idea for the Liberals, but voting for would alost be worse. Harper has played his cards quite well, and now Dion is in a pickle. But dear lord, that woman is irritating. Obviously he's going to 'wait and see'-- deciding to vote one way or another on pure strategy would be completely immoral. As he kept repeating, he couldn't say anything -until the throne speech-.

[PrimarySource888]

I'd agree except Dion did make threats and set conditions on the Throne Speech long before he saw it (youtube video UaByhG3AKdw). Harper did play his cards well, but it was Dion that got himself into a mess by taking an arbitrary position on Afghanistan and an indefensible position on Kyoto. He's just pandering to Quebec voters on these two issues, and he has scored a few points, but he's left himself no room for a nuanced position, or even good old fashioned compromise.

[baird007]

I couldn't have said it better myself, PrimarySource888. This subtle change in tone will only make Dion look weak in political stature and the Liberals who elected him will think twice with their vote in the next election. People need to have their vote count.

[mikefastener]

Yes, that woman is irritating. She is asking questions all Canadians want answered by Dion (or Mr. Elizabeth May, wherever his name is now) want answered. Funny how "coming clean" is now admitted by lie-berals as, "irritating" isn't it?

[baird007]

If the Liberals had a democratic conscience, they would place their vote with or against the throne speech. Their notwithstanding approach is only demonstrating their self-interests instead of doing what they're supposed to do - represent the people who elected them to parliament.

[mikefastener]

My goodness--this guy is dancing better than Fred Astair. For once, lie-erals, please be straight with Canadians. It is truly time to stand up for Canada!

[jmay2002]

If Dion forces an election he loses his job and power! That is why he is avoiding it at all cost.

[sonisisuper]

Honestly, I think I'd respect this guy more if he just went out and opposed the throne speech and election takes place. The sheer audacity of such an act would say something to me. Does that make me crazy? Harper's annoying, but very shrewd - however, I think he's overestimating himself if an election were to take place. Msybe I'm biased because I'm from NL... Of course, Dion's Liberals aren't looking too ood today, and it seems to me that the media has taken that and ran with it...

[cytrax]

Dion is not being straight. He's scared of losing the election on the back of Ipsos-Reid's poll. I don't like the mission in Afghanistan and that's about the only problem I have with the speech. I think it's a suicide mission and those troops should pullout and allow UN to take a more dominant role. But I do think the current government is taking the country forward.