Renee Fleming - Il Pirata (Mad Scene - Score animation)

[wishingonthemoon1]

BRAVAAAA!!!!

[LazarNewDeal]

Of course, Bellini isn't good enough for her or for her maestro, so they decided to ""improve it""... And here is not that bad... There is an Armida which is extremely annoying (and difficult to recognize). Ok if she wants new cadenzas or "oppure", but she misses entirely Bellini's Style.

[hchristopher1]

She makes me want more. That's enough.

[philipc67]

What a mess, sung blandly, with no bite or passion or vocal colouring, taking unforgivable liberties with the score and tempo, chaotic coloratura and embellishments, self-indulgent and affected. She is WRONG for belcanto, why does she persist in this stupid fantasy? Give me Callas and Caballe in their respective vocal primes for this piece please.

[primohomme]

@philipc67

She is by far much better in this role than those who are called "Queen of bel canto" such as Gruberova and Devia, who sing this difficult Assoluta role without any chest or middle voice.

Singing is not all about coloratura, but about a solid sound, and she does have that, and you say she has no vocal coloring? the color of her voice is far richer and creamier than Caballe's ever was.

[philipc67]

@primohomme Gruberova and Devia (both way too old now) have no business singing this music. It is a soprano drammatico d'agilita/sfogato role. As far as I know neither of them has sung Imogene on stage, please correct me if I err here. Renee did, and flopped. Caballe has sung the role on stage to great acclaim and has recorded the full opera, too. And Yes, Renee's tone here is bland, affected, and boring. Listen to 3.20-3.45, JAZZ disaster! Caballe sings this music much, much better.

[primohomme]

@philipc67

Exactly, this role is a soprano sfogato role, and the first requirement is range

Which Caballe totally lacked.

Caballe's bel canto style was better than than Fleming's, and so was her coloratura

But the top notes were simply not there, she always had to push to reach them, and the high pianissimi were (after mid-early 70's) closer to a disconnected falsetto. Also, she lacks the rich dense sound in the chest voice that Fleming has.

[pedrofribeiro]

@primohomme Caballe's bel canto style was impressive, indeed. But she never had good coloratura technique or agility, and had to use Coup-de-Glote and other coloratura cheats. A gorgeous voice, but with no coloratura at all.

[philipc67]

@primohomme I was mistaken, yes Devia has sung Imogene on stage. Has Gruberova?

[UcvGrecia]

If that's how you feel, i should recommend you NOT TO LISTEN to this recording... It's simple; just listen whichever one you think is right. @philipc67 In other words, if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything at all; it's a waste of your energy.

[philipc67]

@UcvGrecia My comment is 3 months old yet you reply now? Lovely! I will listen to whatever I choose and spend my energy how I see fit, addressing critique where I think it is due. It is important to experience and compare various singers, even when they are wrong in their choices. You will kindly visit your patronising attitude on someone else.

[UcvGrecia]

You know, you are absolutely right! How crazy of me... You do that, darling; sorry to impose on you this way. @philipc67 And yes, I will reply whatever comment i want, whenever i see fit, and I'll patronize whoever i choose. Tata!

[7CALLAS]

CALLAS IS THE BEST!

[MuscleDaddyCMH]

SO I guess the beginning of the score is somehow not important?

[primohomme]

@MuscleDaddyCMH

When I uploaded this video the limit of time Youtube allowed was 10 minutes. The scene as a whole is 20 minutes long. Some things had to be cut in order to get to the cavatina and cabaletta.

So your rude ass can take several seats, and if you don't like get, get the fuck out, nobody invited you, nobody asked your opinion, nobody asked you to be born. Fuck you and your mother too.

[Drelnis]

I had to listen to that 2 octave jump again to make sure it's real, amazing :D

[jengupeas]

for anyone that's not so sure about this performance, you have to give a listen to her live recording of the mad scene, just posted by someone .. for me it was quite a marvel and breathtakingly commited

[chorusinger]

Is there still anybody out here who is not a self absorbed crtic and just enjoys all this wonderful music? One seems to know things better than the next one. Everybody has their favorites, I do too, but all this stupid analysing, and comparing one artist to another. For what? It doesn't change anybody's mind.

And by the way, I find this recording fabulous, as well as the recording by Maria Callas.

Thanks for this recording, Primohomme

[kgarmaker123]

Also this is a beautiful melody ( the aria)... that should be sung without embellishments, etc.. at least once through.. honestly the way the composer wrote it.. So that we can hear it! She can embellish in the cabaletta.

[kgarmaker123]

@sillyboydeux I consider both of you friends.. and frankly I agree with you. This is not incisive, it is too quiet... and meditative. Callas gets the right tone.. and she does this better than Renee... Fleming has a voice, granted, but so did Callas, and Callas combined that with great intelligence , allegiance to the score and unerring instincts when it came to musicality.

[primohomme]

Well according to you who sings it better? I would say only Maria Callas.

[primohomme]

This is Bellini, not Rossini.

[primohomme]

LOL, I doubt you know what you are talking about. This recording is perhaps is the best rendition of this scene so far. I would put it vocally on the same level with Maria Callas when it comes to the use of coloration in the voice, power in the low register and ease on the top notes. Not even Caballe does such a great job on it, Devia completely butchers it and Gruberova is just a fucking asthmatic mess.

[yglofmi]

@primohomme lamento mas eu não gosto muito, apesar de achar que Fleming é no geral boa cantora. Acho que ela abusa do rubato e toma liberdades demais com a partitura. O Belcanto belliniano já é suficientemente ornamentado, não é preciso introduzir notas agudas e enfeitá-lo mais, inutilmente.

[robertdonkers]

@primohomme I really think you are right. Renee Fleming makes you listen to this over and over again like Callas did. All the others I am afraid, Caballe, Dragoni, Millo, Aliberti, etc all sing it in the Callas style and of course loose. Renee sings this scene like she only can and makes it exciting and just fantastic. Strangely enough Scotto did a wonderful rendition in a concert.

[primohomme]

Where's the recording of that? I would love to hear if that's the case, because truly she rarely even sang high C.

[primohomme]

O_o.... Ponselle never sang anything above a high C. In Fact, she feared the high C and often transposed things down a whole step if they have a high C...Only in Norma she sang high C, and in Trovatore. Her "Sempre Libera" is down a major second, putting the highest note from high Db to Bb.

[primohomme]

They were both fantastic (Ponselle better than Caruso), but is not like they were the best there ever was.

[primohomme]

Her recording of Armida is second only to Callas. And the official recording is not even that compared to her Carnegie Hall recording which is incredible. The role is tremendously difficult and she sings it with tremendous ease. Have you even heard the full Callas recording so you can compare? Anyways, I find funny how so many opera people love old singers and hate modern ones. Caruso had no top notes and no agility, Rosa Ponselle was scared of her high notes and needed to transpose A LOT.

[primohomme]

She will soon be singing Armida, but she sounds better! Her coloratura is secure and her low register is even stronger, while her upper register is easier than it was even 15 years ago.

[primohomme]

THE ONLY ONE who has done it better is Callas. Don't be hating.

[corazonrendido]

Thank you so much for posting this. My favorite Nene piece. =) Very beautiful. Thanks again for sharing.

[DottoreJojo]

She's great... excellent breaks...

[hchristopher1]

Come mi annoiano i litigi dei "appassionati" di youtube! Se non ti piace una cantante, NON ascoltatela. Non sparliamo dei cantanti, per favore, soprattutto in pubblico o in stampa.

[hchristopher1]

Stop bashing singers in public, people. It's just bad form.

Fleming is a miracle, and if you don't want to hear her, DON'T PLAY THIS CLIP. Gruberova had one of the most perfect techniques of the 20th century. Apples and oranges. Just STOP bitching in public, boys. Damn.

[hchristopher1]

I guess you can't hear the strengths of this performance. While I agree in general the Fleming's bel canto roles SHOULD have become her calling card, there is a lot to love here. Bashing singers in public is simply bad form, and exposes a poverty of spirit. Yes, there are stylistic errors, but vocally one really cannot complain. I've made it a point to NEVER speak ill of any singer, especially in print. Perhaps you might reconsider posting negative comments here.

[w7md]

Thank you for posting this. I agree with your comments. She does sound a lot like Marilyn Horne in the mezzo range. I wouldn't be surprised if Marilyn gave her some pointers on how to handle this. Renee Fleming mentions in her autobiography "The Inner Voice" that they are friends and had rehearsed together on a duet project for Decca which was never completed because of illness and schedule conflicts.

[primohomme]

What the fuck would you know about beautiful chest voice, when you adore that asthmatic bitch Gruberova who can't even sing a decent middle C without sounding like she is gonna pass out.

[Amphipolis]

too many coloraturas, for what?

[primohomme]

What's the question about?

[Lohengrin]

This is fantastic...

but you are discussing in this page details (2 octave drops, chest voice etc) that none in our days can understand or appreciate. We are living in the era of the worst possible AUDIENCE the world of opera has ever seen (a bunch of queens trying to transform Opera into a gay parade of freaks... and Im afraid they are succeeding it!)

[primohomme]

Opera since its beginnins has been a sort of "freakshow", but at least the freaks knew what they were doing and the art it took, sadly most people today have forgotten.